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Europe's economic recovery...

by whataboutbob Fri Dec 8th, 2006 at 04:59:25 AM EST

From Tgerathy in this morning’s Salon de News via the Wall Street Journal (behind a subscription wall):

Europe Is Giving Global Economy A Surprise Boost Amid U.S. Lull

Europe's economy is firing on all cylinders after years of feeble growth, helping to sustain global expansion as the U.S. economy slows and surprising many economists who doubted the Continent could muster enough demand to break its reliance on exports.

Europe's economic recovery was ignited by rising exports, but it is now spreading to investment, job creation and consumer spending. . . .

Euro-zone gross domestic product is on course to grow by 2.7% this year, unspectacular by recent U.S. standards but a big improvement on the 1.4% growth the euro zone averaged the previous five years. . . . next year, most forecasters still expect an expansion of around 2%. By Europe's lackluster standards, that's nothing short of a comeback -- and is good news for exporters and investors from the U.S. and Asia. . . .

The long slowdown led anxious Europeans to save their incomes . . . creating pent-up demand that is now being unleashed as confidence gradually returns. . . .

Germany, for years the sick man of Europe, has led the revival, reclaiming its place as the region's growth engine. . . . total investment in Germany is set to grow by 5.8% this year, according to the OECD, up from 1% last year and declines in the four previous years. Revived investment has helped bring Germany's chronic unemployment below four million in November, from more than five million in January. . . . rising employment has allowed a modest recovery in consumer spending, which is expected to grow by around 0.8% this year after stagnating or shrinking since 2001. . . .

Investment is also improving in other European countries . . . "The recovery in Germany is lifting Italy and helping France," . . . In both countries, stronger exports are helping companies to raise investment. . . .

Consumer spending hasn't improved as strongly as investment, but even here there are signs of improvement. Euro-zone consumption rose by 0.6% during the third quarter . . .

Sounds like good economic news heading into 2007...wonder what next year brings us?


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Just cyclical.
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Dec 8th, 2006 at 05:09:44 AM EST
metatone's Cyclical Technology TM
by TGeraghty on Fri Dec 8th, 2006 at 05:17:00 AM EST
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Wow, thanks! I get my very own tagline.

The funny thing is, I do have the suspicion that it is sort of cyclical (in the grand scheme), that economies, like people have times of low energy and confidence, but these tend to turn around if the fundamentals are strong.

In particular, it is now 16 years since the reunification of Germany, it should be (by my guess) 20 years (that's how long a lot of these things seem to take) before Germany reaches the prosperity it would have been in without unification and thus, likely it should be coming out of the doldrums now, or sometime soon.

The sadness of course is that people have tried to ascribe significance to these cycles as criticisms of ways of running economies, without taking the context into account.

(This all runs off my contention that Germany is a core economy in Europe, it has to be going good for the EU figures as a whole to be good.)

Now whether the EU can easily weather the bumps that a declining dollar appears to presage is something I'm less sure about. In fundamental terms it clearly can, but we live in a world floating on liquidity and "investment confidence" which is perhaps much more globalised in nature these days.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Dec 8th, 2006 at 07:33:12 AM EST
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The sadness of course is that people have tried to ascribe significance to these cycles as criticisms of ways of running economies, without taking the context into account.

The late physicist Per Bak argued that it is a problem of historical narratives that people try to ascribe significance to what might just be fortuitous chains of events. Technically, in an open, complex system a state of "self-organised criticality" is attained in which small random causes can have disproportionately large cascading effects. From outside the system, only the statistical properties of these "avalanches" are meaningful, but from within the system every little building block has a significance and so a narrative gets constructed to explain the observed succession of events as a meaningful causative chain. A constant case of post hoc ergo propter hoc, in a way.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Dec 8th, 2006 at 07:41:32 AM EST
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Yes, certainly a large part of it is cyclical. Booms (or busts) never last forever.

As for the reintegration of the East German economy, it may take even longer than 20 years. Reintegrating the South back into the US economy after the Civil War took over a century. I think the scope of the problems in the two cases are comparable.

by TGeraghty on Fri Dec 8th, 2006 at 05:33:29 PM EST
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Sounds like good economic news heading into 2007
Nope, as long as we are stuck with the "growth is good" assumption, I find economic news exceptionally irrelevant. Not even asking the right questions. Good news will be the day the idea of growth is seriously questioned.
...wonder what next year brings us?
From me, more cynicism and crankiness, probably.
by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Fri Dec 8th, 2006 at 05:40:15 AM EST
I've been pestering the economically talented people here with the "Why do we need growth?" question for a little too long to be loved. As far as I can perceive the reasoning, I understand that growth is the entire foundation that upholds the dominant economic construct... No growth, no sustainable economy. And so it seems we're stuck with not just an assumption but a necessity.

Which means that one day the current model will stop functioning (unless humanity grows itself a space ship and becomes extraterrestrial looters) or it will have to transform into an alternative form.

Is there such a thing as sustainable growth?

by Nomad (Bjinse) on Fri Dec 8th, 2006 at 06:06:58 AM EST
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Is there such a thing as sustainable growth?

Well, I don't disagree with the views here about "growth", though I must say that until we do figure out how to do a "sustainable growth" or "alternative growth", at least it means that more people are working when there is money floating around. But...I definitely believe that the idea of a "sustainable growth" bears more exploration...

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia

by whataboutbob on Fri Dec 8th, 2006 at 06:16:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As far as I can perceive the reasoning, I understand that growth is the entire foundation that upholds the dominant economic construct... No growth, no sustainable economy.
This is exactly why we need to build another economic construct. I don't believe the present one is long term sustainable. All physical systems have conservation laws, I don't see how the economy, being based in a physical reality, could not be limited by conservation laws as well. Thermodynamics will get us all. I would be interested to hear someone attempting to explain why economic systems are not subject to conservation laws that prohibit indefinite growth. Is our system not physically based? Even stuff like "intellectual production" would have to be limited by only having value compared to other "intellectual assets". Sounds very much zero sum to me. So, any "growth economy" proponents here on the trib? Why is it that this is a physically possible system?
Is there such a thing as sustainable growth?
Yes, it's called inflation.
by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Fri Dec 8th, 2006 at 06:19:41 AM EST
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But surely there are many gifted ET contributors who work in it - because there are little other alternatives, not-withstanding Chris Cook perhaps. I have attempted to grasp the corollaries of his construct, but I'm afraid I'm out of my wits on that... Nor have I an idea whether he has addressed the sustainability of his model at ET or elsewhere before, but I would be interested to read it.

The economics of today have developed, because they work. It seems evolution to me, in that regard. It happens, because there is a time-window for it. One day, the brick wall will come, but that's no worry for the species of today. Evolution has no long term strategy. It's opportune, it just is - and apparently so is economics.

by Nomad (Bjinse) on Fri Dec 8th, 2006 at 06:46:47 AM EST
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Agreed. This is exactly the problem with economics, though. It wont work long term, it might stop working quite soon, not planning is idiotic. Running in to the brick wall when you can see it quite well is very silly. Keeping doing something just 'cause it has worked in the past is shortsighted.
by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Fri Dec 8th, 2006 at 06:51:14 AM EST
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I believe the current economic construct is a result of a reversal of causation, and therefore of a conceptual error.

To wit: the 14th century saw the greatest economic (and social) collapse in European history. As happens after a biological mass extinction, there was an explosion of economic and cultural growth (call it a memetic radiation if you want) over the following century or so, in which 1) starting from an all-time low, there was sustained and rapid economic growth; 2) cultural norms were up for grabs and the traditional prohibition of usury was abandoned. This is becuase when your economy is expanding and there is lots of room for population to grow and expand, both return and interest rates can be sustainably high. So, the explosive recovery of the European economy between 1350 and 1500 laid the foundations of modern capitalism. And we're talking 5 to 10 generations here, enought to completely change the worldview of an entire civilisation.

Then around 1500 came the "age of exploration" with a greatly inflationary influx of precious metals and spices from America and Asia, plus constant warfare for about 200 years providing a keynesian stimulus to growth, plus a need for states to incur huge debts to maintain their huge armies.

So by the time the 17th century rolled along and enlightened scholars started to apply reason to economic matters, the financial system of capitalism was the natural state of things, and growth, rather than being a cause, was perceived as the effect.

And from that conceptual reversal of the causal chain come our current woes.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Dec 8th, 2006 at 07:11:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The other effect of the "age of exploration" was that it embedded growth as the discovery of new resources (including land.)

To me, this is one of the most interesting elements of a whole bunch of economic myths, including Ayn Rand's frontier style libertarianism. Eternal growth (and the general "morality of self-sufficiency" not to mention "if you're poor, it's because you're lazy") all powerfully run off the notion that if someone "eats your lunch" you just run off to "new territory" and do something new.

A basic truth observing large parts of the world is that a lot of the most productive, most habitable land has already been exploited, but our economics sort of lives by the idea that such things are in infinte supply.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Dec 8th, 2006 at 07:26:27 AM EST
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In addition, when there is economic growth there is more social mobility, because people can get higher in the wealth ranking without others losing wealth in absolute terms. In other words, when economic growth falters, economic activity and social mobility become more of a zero-sum game, which is why we're seing all this wealth capture at the top of the dung heap. The limits of growth are at hand, the game is now closer to zero-sum, and those at the top seem to know it, if only instinctively.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Dec 8th, 2006 at 07:34:27 AM EST
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Why is it that this is a physically possible system?

Because we're taking over the biosphere.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Dec 8th, 2006 at 08:56:12 AM EST
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Socratic Economics I: Why GDP growth above all else? by Colman on June 29th, 2006

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Dec 8th, 2006 at 06:59:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks. That was an interesting set of comments.
by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Fri Dec 8th, 2006 at 08:53:31 AM EST
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