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French youth vote for Le Pen?

by Alexandra in WMass Sat Mar 18th, 2006 at 03:58:36 AM EST

Yesterday in Contrat Première Embûche Jérôme and Dodo raised concern about the specter of Le Pen continuing to loom on French politics:


The [CPE] movement is now becoming a major social moment, and the current government is unlikely to stay unscathed. In a sense, the question is whether Villepin will take Sarkozy and Chirac with him, or if he will be destroyed alone. His chances of surviving the crisis appear slim today, and there's a good chance that the right could be nastily tainted. The big worry is that this brings a full year of disorder, which could play into Le Pen's hands. The situation is very fluid and the stakes are getting steadily higher..

From the diaries, with minor format edits ~ whataboutbob


The March poll by tns-sofres put Le Pen at 14% overall (25% among individuals who identify themselves as on the right) as a political personality they hope will play an important role in the months and years to come. Ironically the FN itself doesn't get such high marks. So far this year (2006) 10 to 11% of poll respondents had a favorable opinion of the FN and 79 to 80 had a negative opinion of the FN. In a separate march poll conducted by IFOP Le Pen, with 20%, is second to last among a long list of 50 political figures the French have a good opinion of.

Today Le Monde online has an article about the "risk" youth represent for the presidential hopefuls in the current French government. The article raises some interesting points about youth and their likelihood to vote for the FN, although it also seems to me a somewhat over simplified analysis of a diverse electoral group. Maybe this is another candidate for article deconstruction? Then again it's "just" a newspaper article not a PhD thesis.

The Le Monde article points out that youth represent only 15 % of the electorate but their political allegiances are more volatile. They are more likely to abstain then older voters, are often undecided voters and, especially those with no diploma, are more likely to make a protest vote (a long time French tradition especially on the first round of presidential elections).

According to the director of the polling agency TNS- Sofre quoted in The Le Monde article:

"The images of the large demonstrations of youth against the FN between the two presidential election rounds in 2002 have imposed the preconceived idea that youth are very much against the extreme right ... but it's a mistake. On the contrary, Jean-Marie Le Pen has a hard core of support among 18-24 year olds"

"For about 15 years now" explains Pascal Perrineau, researcher at Cevipof and specialist on the extreme right "we see very noticeably, in the interviews that we conduct, the degree to which a category of young men, suffering in their social status and shaken in their male identity, often find a particular resonance in the authoritarian and nationalist themes developed by the Front national."

On April 21st 2001, they gave their votes to Jean-Marie Le Pen to the point of putting him on equal footing with Jacques Chirac and Lionel Jospin. In all the recent surveys, they continue to be tempted by the FN vote, as a rejection of the current political options.

The rejection, or at best the dissatisfaction, continues to be widely shared by all 18 to 24 year olds. Youth rarely define themselves positively with regards to politics. They are "not on the left" or "against Villepin" regarding the CPE rather then members of a particular cause. Their great responsiveness to audiovisual medias takes care of the rest. "In 1995, 60% of 18-24 year olds (as opposed to 48% for the total population) said they chose their candidate thanks to television" recalls Anne Muxel [researcher at Cevipof]"we can assume that this tendency has only increased". Thus the imposing success of candidates who have a distinctive discourse in this political swap which, they think, does not represent them.


Les images des grands défilés de jeunes contre le FN dans l'entre-deux-tours de la présidentielle de 2002 ont imposé l'idée reçue que les jeunes sont très opposés à l'extrême droite ... Mais c'est une erreur. Au contraire, Jean-Marie Le Pen dispose d'un noyau dur parmi les 18-24 ans."

"Depuis une quinzaine d'années déjà, explique Pascal Perrineau, chercheur au Cevipof et spécialiste de l'extrême droite, nous voyons très nettement, dans les entretiens que nous menons, combien toute une catégorie de jeunes hommes, en souffrance sociale et ébranlés dans leur identité masculine, trouvent une résonance particulière dans les grandes thématiques autoritaires et nationalistes développées par le Front national."

Le 21 avril 2002, ils ont apporté leurs voix à Jean-Marie Le Pen au point de le placer à jeu égal avec Jacques Chirac et Lionel Jospin. Dans toutes les enquêtes récentes, ils continuent d'être tentés par le vote FN, par rejet de l'offre politique existante.

Ce rejet, ou au mieux cette insatisfaction, reste largement partagé par l'ensemble des 18-24 ans. Les jeunes se définissent rarement de façon positive lorsqu'il s'agit de politique. Ils sont "pas de gauche" ou "contre Villepin" sur le CPE plus qu'adhérents à une cause. Leur très grande sensibilité aux médias audiovisuels fait le reste. "En 1995, 60 % des 18-24 ans (contre 48 % de l'ensemble de la population) disaient avoir choisi leur candidat par la télévision, rappelle Anne Muxel [chercheur au Cevipof]. On peut supposer que cette tendance n'a fait que s'accentuer." D'où le succès écrasant des candidats ayant un discours tranchant nettement sur un marais politique qui, pensent-ils, ne les représente pas.


I added some additional translation of the article and some numbers on youth votes for Le Pen in the 2002 elections here in the comments

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Today Le Monde online has an article about the "risk" youth represent for the presidential hopefuls in the current French government.
How sad. These youth are going to be around for over 50 years. They should be considered an opportunity, not a risk.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Mar 17th, 2006 at 10:46:10 AM EST
Then again it's "just" a newspaper article not a PhD thesis.
Exactly, the newspaper actually gets read widely.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Mar 17th, 2006 at 10:47:14 AM EST
Yes and an ET diary gets read quickly! I didn't have time to add a lonely comment. It already has good company ;-)
by Alexandra in WMass (alexandra_wmass[a|t]yahoo[d|o|t]fr) on Fri Mar 17th, 2006 at 10:52:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The Le Monde article points out that youth represent only 15 % of the electorate but their political allegiances are more volatile. They are more likely to abstain then older voters, are often undecided voters and, especially those with no diploma, are more likely to make a protest vote (a long time French tradition especially on the first round of presidential elections).
They won't vote for the lesser evil, they are not ideologically captive voters, and are not afraid to use their vote to make a statement. Great!

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Mar 17th, 2006 at 10:49:00 AM EST
Less great if the statement results in a second presidential round where you only have Le Pen and Chirac to choose from. However, I'm not sure you can just blame disaffected youth for that.
by Alexandra in WMass (alexandra_wmass[a|t]yahoo[d|o|t]fr) on Fri Mar 17th, 2006 at 10:55:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You mean Le Pen and Sarkozy?

Is it better that voters behave like sheep and vote for whom their parents have always voted, as long as we get, say, Villeping or Jospin?

What are French politicians afraid of? By the way, the PS should take a long, hard look at the primary that PSOE held in 1998 and how it energized the party's sympathisers.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Mar 17th, 2006 at 11:04:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You mean Le Pen and Sarkozy?

Ahhh Noooooo!! I was thinking of the past with the sincere hope the future would be better.

Is it better that voters behave like sheep and vote for whom their parents have always voted, as long as we get, say, Villeping or Jospin?

No need to behave like sheep and I'm all for a protest vote but Le Pen on the second round is really beyond a crappy choice in my opinion.

by Alexandra in WMass (alexandra_wmass[a|t]yahoo[d|o|t]fr) on Fri Mar 17th, 2006 at 11:27:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It should be as easy to beat Le Pen in the first round as it should have been to beat Bush in 2000. Except that politicians who should do better are somehow too good at botching their political campaigns.

Why can't they engage people? Why do they all toe the conventional line? What are they afraid of?

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Mar 17th, 2006 at 11:31:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There's nothing new here. Young voters have always had these characteristics.

Neither do I understand the assumption it was the youth vote that got Le Pen into Round Two in 2002.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Mar 17th, 2006 at 11:34:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
because they vote for all the various assorted lefties that were more "authentic" than Jospin?

I know a number of those. I expect guilt to improve the chances of the socialist candidate in the first round (the "vote utile" - the call to vote "usefully", i.e. for a candidate that stands a chance to win - will work this time)

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 17th, 2006 at 11:47:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You have an electoral system problem, not an irresponsible youth vote problem. Adopt the single-transferable vote for the Presidential election, like in Ireland.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Mar 17th, 2006 at 11:51:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But the youth vote has always gone more heavily to leftie candidates. I don't think it was the youth vote that was responsible for Jospin's shortfall. (Though maybe I should look at the post-election polls to see).
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Mar 17th, 2006 at 11:58:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The key here is that to talk about one youth vote is an oversimplification (big surprise!). The article I quote does make that point. I just focused on the Le Pen aspect because it came as a bit of a surprise to me.


"There isn't one youth vote but several youth votes" Anne Muxel emphacizes. "Thus, in all elections, there is a real difference between youth with diplomas (about 60% have a high school diploma) and those without". The 60% of diploma holders are less likely to abstain, more sensitive to a certain cultural liberalism, and to an apparently different way of doing politics. They are the ones who on April 21st 2002, gave most of their support to Noël Mamère, to the point that he was the first candidate among 18 to 24 year olds. They generally vote for the socialist party or the greens, but relatively little for the extreme left and they reject fairly often the Font National.

"Il n'y a pas un vote jeune mais des votes jeunes, souligne Anne Muxel. Ainsi, sur toutes les élections, la différence est réelle entre la jeunesse diplômée (à peu près 60 % ont le baccalauréat) et celle qui ne l'est pas." Les 60 % diplômés sont ainsi moins abstentionnistes, plus sensibles à un certain libéralisme culturel, à une façon apparemment différente de faire de la politique. Ce sont eux qui, le 21 avril 2002, ont apporté majoritairement leurs suffrages à Noël Mamère, au point d'en faire le premier candidat des 18-24 ans. Ils votent généralement pour le Parti socialiste ou les Verts, mais relativement peu pour l'extrême gauche et rejettent assez souvent le Front national.

The article then goes on, as quoted in the diary above, to explain how youth that do not have a diploma, presumably 40% or 18-24 year olds, are more likely to vote for Le Pen. I did find some Le Pen numbers for the 2002 elections in an interesting article in English on France: the new generation Politics yes, but of a different kind:

LF: What position do they take in relation to the extreme right?

AM: Young people are not a homogeneous unit. There is a real generation divide. Very different kinds of behaviour can be observed between students and young people who finish their education at an earlier age and have difficulty finding jobs and becoming integrated into society. In the first round of the presidential elections of April 2002, for example, few students (8%) voted for the far-right candidate, whilst 29% of those who left school without qualifications did so, i.e. a higher proportion than the population at large (13%).

by Alexandra in WMass (alexandra_wmass[a|t]yahoo[d|o|t]fr) on Fri Mar 17th, 2006 at 03:33:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
True, no age category is monolithic. I've been trying to find a post-election poll from 2002 that would give a breakdown of who the 18-24 group voted for in the first round, but I've had no luck.

My feeling about the 40% who do not have the baccalaureate, and who supposedly would vote more easily for Le Pen, is that we shouldn't forget that that is a group that contains a large number of second/third generation youth of immigrant origin, from the banlieues, and certainly not Le Pen voters. Those in this category who might vote for Le Pen are "Gaulois", ie of French ethnic origin, who have not succeeded in getting the bac.

If we take the figures offered in the article you quote, 29% is given for the 40% without a diploma, 9% for the 60% with. Unless I've done my sums wrong, that works out at 17% of the total 18-24 electorate, pretty much the national average. A frighteningly high percentage, I agree, but I don't see evidence there that young voters are turning in greater numbers to the extreme right than other categories.

But it's true, Le Pen doubtless has a noyau dur in this electorate.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Mar 18th, 2006 at 01:57:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So do we need to worry about another rise of Le Pen? And what's up with these young disaffected men "shaken in their male identity" Pascal Perrineau tells us about? Mr. Perrineau seems like he should know what he's talking about, at least if you look at his list of publications.
by Alexandra in WMass (alexandra_wmass[a|t]yahoo[d|o|t]fr) on Fri Mar 17th, 2006 at 10:49:33 AM EST
The issue is not so much the young vote for Le Pen, as the overall vote for Le Pen, including, in particular, those afraid by those rowdy, disrespectful youth - who are not even grateful of the opportunity to work provided to them by the CPE.

The Le Pen vote as ALWAYS been under counted in polls. It's the ultimate "fuck you" vote to an out-of-touch political class, and I see no reason for it to go away after the pathetic 4 years we've gone through, politiclaly speaking. Le Pen will get at least 20% in the first round. Both the left and the right can get more, if they organise properly, but there are so many petty rivalries that it's not clear that will happen.

It's even conceivable that Le Pen be first, and the next president would then be the candidate which, by sheer luck, has a few hundred thousand votes more than the others to get to second place with 16% and then beat Le Pen.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 17th, 2006 at 11:52:32 AM EST

It's the ultimate "fuck you" vote to an out-of-touch political class

Yes, we see that in Belgium since the elections of 1991.
The ultra-right-racist 'Vlaams Blok' here in the Flemish part of Belgium is still growing, in some city's well over 30%.
I don't see that change in the near future because of the short-term view of to much politicians (opportunists).

The struggle of man against tyranny is the struggle of memory against forgetting.(Kundera)

by Elco B (elcob at scarlet dot be) on Fri Mar 17th, 2006 at 12:36:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The PS needs a primary.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Mar 17th, 2006 at 12:38:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think this is really the big issue -- there will be a primary but what will the rules be and will those who run but don't win (the correct translation of that term, I think, is Laurent Fabius) honor the result? If the PS presents a single candidate and a reasonably unified front, its hard to see that candidate note making the 2nd round this time.

With no Chevenement, a PCF that continues to wane, and an "extreme gauche" of LCR/LO that remains an option only for a minority of voters -- plus on the pretty far right, de Villiers and Sarko both likely to steal some of LePen's vote -- a repeat of 2002 seems to me highly unlikely.

Wishful thinking?

by desmoulins (gsb6@lycos.com) on Sun Mar 19th, 2006 at 12:02:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The issue is not so much the young vote for Le Pen, as the overall vote for Le Pen, including, in particular, those afraid by those rowdy, disrespectful youth - who are not even grateful of the opportunity to work provided to them by the CPE.

I agree. I did find it interesting that the youth vote, which I had assumed was more to the left in general, seems to also have a Le Pen component and that Le Monde chose to focus on that.

by Alexandra in WMass (alexandra_wmass[a|t]yahoo[d|o|t]fr) on Fri Mar 17th, 2006 at 03:44:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Alexandra, thanks to Jérôme, I now have the graphs that go with the Le Monde article you quote (they weren't published on line).

Here's the breakdown of the youth (18-24) vote in the last four presidential elections, first round:

It's interesting how it shows the complete collapse of the Communist vote and the concomitant rise of Le Pen. In 1981, the N°1 candidate for the young was Georges Marchais, Communist, 24%, on the left in red of course ;). In 1988, the PC candidate is Pierre Juquin, over to the right with only 2%. Le Pen is in third place with 16%.

And, in 2002, Le Pen did in fact get the same score as Chirac and Jospin, all three at 13%. (Noël Mamère, Green, came in first).

Now look at this:

The question is: "Which candidate has the best chance of getting your vote?" (the note beneath explains this is not to be interpreted as a straightforward voting intention poll, since the actual list of candidates is not known, and the list offered with the question is therefore arbitrary and may bias results).

The difference between the 18-24 group and the 25-34 group is striking. Sarko and Le Pen ahead with 23% each!

So: I have to retract most my more optimistic comments above. It would perhaps be interesting:

  1. to see if the events of the moment (anti-CPE) have modified these intentions (from February);

  2. to try to understand who the 46% Sarko/Le Pen potential voters are and what leads them in that direction.

In other words, you were quite right to flag this in your diary. :-)
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:32:59 AM EST
Great addition. Wow the graph with the potential presidential faces made me scream with horror 23% of youth for Sarko & another 23% for Le Pen more than any other candidate in whatever list was provided to respondents. It's worse then I even thought it might be. Yikes this is potentially a real issue for next year's elections!! We'll need to keep an eye on this I really can't bear the idea of having Le Pen as a second round candidate on the next presidential election, or Sakozi for that matter. It was supposed to have been a fluke of the split vote for the left in 2002.
by Alexandra in WMass (alexandra_wmass[a|t]yahoo[d|o|t]fr) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 08:52:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It needs following up. I don't quite understand it. 46% of people this age for the authoritarian right?

One point may be that only those who say they intend to vote may have been polled, which skews the sample -- in a sense, because it's the banlieue kids who abstain most, and they won't vote for either of those two. But then, if they do abstain, the sample isn't skewed...

And the 60/40 split between bac-holders and not doesn't really help to explain anything, since obviously in this poll a good proportion of bac-holders chose S or LP.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 10:41:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And the 60/40 split between bac-holders and not doesn't really help to explain anything, since obviously in this poll a good proportion of bac-holders chose S or LP.

Not so sure you can dismiss the education divide so easily. It may not be enough to explain it all but if my calculations are correct (and leaving Sarko out as the person for who the education divide may not apply as much) just imagine the 40% with no diploma who voted at 29% for Le Pen in 2002 are now up to 39% for Le Pen and your 60% youth with diploma continue to vote 8% for Le Pen (60/40 & 8/29 come from the earlier comment on this thread). You end up with a youth vote for Le Pen of 23.5%.

by Alexandra in WMass (alexandra_wmass[a|t]yahoo[d|o|t]fr) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 11:16:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't quite understand it. 46% of people this age for the authoritarian right?

Yes these numbers seem rather surprising to me. They either need deconstructing or our assumptions about the youth vote are off maybe in part due to abstention of less authoritarian right leaning youth. I don't know.

by Alexandra in WMass (alexandra_wmass[a|t]yahoo[d|o|t]fr) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 12:15:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It was supposed to have been a fluke of the split vote for the left in 2002.
The US Democratic party still hasn't figured out how they could have lost in 2000 and 2004 with "better" candidates against Bush.

"Supposed to be a fluke" may mean that France has been in denial for 4 years about whatever really happened with voter intent in 2002 (and don't ask me what happened because I have no clue).

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 10:46:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There's a pdf file here that analyses the youth vote in the constitution referendum. It gives some insights. (The young voted more heavily "Non" than the overall electorate, 59% no, 41% yes).
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 11:43:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
My take: this is yet another consequence of the lies that we spend our time complaining about here. Tell the youth that they think they're threatened and downtrodden and they'll believe you and react accordingly.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 11:49:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Don't we agree to a large extent that the French youth are threatened and downtrodden?

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 11:52:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't honestly know any more. Do we agree that they have 25% unemployment so that radical reforms are required to solve the problem? I don't think so. Is there an unemployment problem for French youth? I can't tell any more.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 11:56:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Alain Touraine in today's Breakfast
Young people in France see themselves confronted with a stagnating society, one which  is sometimes prejudiced against them as well. The social elevator is stuck. Hopes are destroyed, many can look forward to reduced circumstances or complete social marginalization, but at the very least uncertainty.
essentially agrees with what Jerome was saying in reaction to the Banlieu riots. There may not be an unemployment problem, but there is a problem with precarious employment and, more generally, life prospects. And the reaction to just liberalize the heck out of the youth labour market threatens the already downtrodden youth.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 12:04:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The social elevator is stuck is the main thing. (Touraine has been saying it for years).

There's no handy myth about working hard and making it to the top to replace the mobility of thirty-forty years ago. And the young don't want to see the gradual introduction of labour market "reforms" that give them an even worse feeling about their future prospects.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 12:17:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A real problem or a perceived one? The whole thing is so ringed around with propaganda that I simply don't trust anything about it.

I've just realised that the most valuable think a Gnomemoot can do is define the bloody problem by stripping away the nonsense.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 12:18:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think there is a problem, but it's exaggerated for propaganda purposes and that blown-up version becomes perceived as truth.

Where there is truth is that French businesses opted long ago for capital investment rather than labour. They tend to want to keep the most productive people at work as long as possible (overtime), have a disposable fringe of "precarious" jobs, and leave the rest. Where there is also truth is that, idéologie oblige, this government is cutting down on public sector recruitment. OTOH, France provides for more education/training for the young, which is why there are 60% of the 15-24 group in there.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 12:12:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't deny that Western Europe has the best educated work force it's ever had. But it's going to waste.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 12:13:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Youth work force, that is.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 12:14:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Can I gloat a bit or is that inappropriate and risking my chance of any Jam surviving till June?
by Alexandra in WMass (alexandra_wmass[a|t]yahoo[d|o|t]fr) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 08:54:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Depression will lead me to unbridled jam gluttony. So gloat at your own risk. ;)
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 10:33:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No no. No depression allowed. Remember it will be a sunny June day along the river with a friendly dog chasing after you and the good company of Alex, Mr & Mrs Lupin & myself and yummy jam to taste.... I've stopped gloating. I actually never even started. Actually it never crossed my mind. BTW what does gloating mean? Never hear of that word before. It must come from gluttony and correspond to that stage at which you eat too much jam so there is no more left for the summer months. Down with gloating!! Yes for jam!!
by Alexandra in WMass (alexandra_wmass[a|t]yahoo[d|o|t]fr) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 10:47:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
To gloat comes from the same root as glee.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 10:51:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ok I'll admit I angling for Jam with great glee but please don't let afew. There is high stakes jam tasting at stake here. You don't realise he's got fig jam AND blueberry jam AND quince jam if I'm not mistaken. I'm hoping to trade some Bordeaux or New England specialities in exchange. It's all very complex exchange & hording theory.
by Alexandra in WMass (alexandra_wmass[a|t]yahoo[d|o|t]fr) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 11:07:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hoard, hoard. Gloat, gloat. <rubs hands>
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 11:40:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Two other points to note:

  • Le Pen's highest score in this age group was 18%, in 1985;

  • in 2002, though Le Pen got 13% in Round One, he dropped to 8% in Round Two. (There's a strong suggestion there of an element of protest vote in Round One; then one shouldn't forget the anti-LP mobilisation of students and young people between the two rounds, which may have had some influence).
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 11:39:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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