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I don't understand what's the point with those two graphs.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:20:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nor I. I thought I was just being unusually think today.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:23:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Berlusconi effect (none / 1)

Thick. Oh dear.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:29:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Side effect of the 2 Guinesses you had to swallow earlier, eh ?

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill

by Agnes a Paris on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:11:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The budget surpluses, part of Prodi's policies to reduce the burden of debt, brutally went down under Berlusconi, and debt started going up again, after having gone down under the Maastricht discipline for a number of years.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:01:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ah, those were surpluses! That was the missing element.

Nitpick: the total debt has never gone below the Maastricht limit of 60%.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:06:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nitpick to what?

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:12:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Berlusconi effect (none / 1)

Oh, sorry, upon second reading, I misread your text! (Discipline)

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:24:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

we are all Occupied now (none / 1)

I sent my better half a link to this diary, as I often do when I find a diary especially interesting or well written, and went on with my surfing. So many blogs, so little time.

"That's an interesting short story about half way down the page," she says some time later, "did you read it?"

"Huh?" I say, "What page?" That's what I love about my family, the scintillating conversation.

"That link you sent me. There's an interesting story further down the page."

"You mean further down in the comments?"

"No, on dove's page. In Flight, that link in her sig. About half way down. It's called An Experiment. It's pretty good."

She's right. As usual. It's very good. And I have discovered a treasure. I almost never follow links to personal blogs anymore. McLuhan's fifteen minutes of fame have become everybody's got a blog. Everybody.blogspot.com. And most of them are as useless as mine would be if I had one. We are all readers, or we wouldn't be here. But very few of us are writers, much as we would like to be. And fewer still, a precious few, are really gifted writers.

Thanks again, dove. You write well enough for both of us.

We all bleed the same color.

by budr on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:02:52 PM EST

Dove's text (none / 1)

I agree. An Experiment is a very nice short story. It's really worth going on her blog to read it.

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

by Melanchthon on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:26:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Political compass subthread (4.00 / 2)

In another thread Migeru said:

as a follow-up to your membership statistics open thread, how about a political compass open thread? If people post their scores as comments I'll make a graph.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:20:18 PM EST

-5.5, -7. I guess that makes me left really then.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:21:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The test is here.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:22:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Economic Left/Right: -8.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.95

Looky-there, I show some signs of a social conservative!...

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:32:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh, man, you're hard core.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:34:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Will you post your own score?

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:43:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I remember something around (-6, -6) but I'll have to take the test again (it must have been 2 years since I last took it). I'm another bloody centrist.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:44:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Now I know that your socks and underwear are red too!

by Alex in Toulouse on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:45:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Political compass subthread (4.00 / 4)

With a -7.95 on the social scale he probably goes barefoot and wears no underwear.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:46:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh man that one got me laughing out loud!

by Alex in Toulouse on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:49:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Heh :-)

But, given the tailoring which the stormy present noticed too, I guess real Trots or anarcho-syndikalists or Eurocommunists would score at least -9.75, -9.75...

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:49:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You know, I would expect some of those to be a little more authoritarian (except for the anarchosyndicalists).

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:50:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes, but those differences are off the scale here.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:57:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Huh?

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:57:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

?

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:00:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Please explain in what sense they are off the scale?

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:01:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That this test doesn't measure their differences, because the questions don't ask for things they differ on. All three would be in the 9.5-10.0 range.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:12:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Good point. We should launch a Political Compass site just for extremists and splitters, with really fine-tuned questions.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:22:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Except we'd never agree on the questions.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:03:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't agree we'll never agree!!!

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:07:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Splitter!

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:11:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wow. I come in at -7.13/-6.26. Does that make me an authoritarian corporatist? Just a wimp?

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:03:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You're a menshevik :-)

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:16:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Mensheviks, hmm... weren't they the ones who...

oh oh. ;)

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:21:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

-8.25, -7.38

(Does that make me an extremist?)

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:36:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm convinced that you and DoDo have similar taste in socks and underwear :)

by Alex in Toulouse on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:46:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You may be right. I sniff disdainfully at the bourgeois concept of footwear. And I only wear clothes because that unreconstructed fascist Blair always makes it cold and wet in the UK.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:10:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

-6.88 & -5.28

by Alex in Toulouse on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:39:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Alex, you're a bloody centrist! :-)

Now really, I would never have imagined that you are more socially conservative than me...

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:42:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Maybe you're the one who's socially more extreme :)

by Alex in Toulouse on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:45:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nah actually I'm a bit of a nut on the social side. For example I would fine people pissing on the streets of a city centre for 500 euros, and use that money to build free public toilets.

by Alex in Toulouse on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:48:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Me too. And also I'd favor smoking bans even in open air public places, enforced noise regulations, and am monogamous (though not for marriage) unlike you...

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:53:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ok taking into account these new revelations, your score has been adjusted to -8.75 & +9.1 (just like mine should, in fact I did a similar test once and ended up near Stalin)

by Alex in Toulouse on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:55:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

A few weeks ago I was carrying paper and various other stuff to the recycling bins, and on the way saw that some kids (10-13? year olds) were playing in the cemetary. I watched them for about 2 minutes, and noticed that they were playing a simplified version of paintball (throwing rocks at each other while ducking behind tumbstones).

And then I scolded them in a loud voice, along the lines of: "great idea to mess around in a cemetary ... why don't you go and throw stones at each other in front inside your parent's house and respect the dead instead?".

Now I have no idea where that came from. I didn't really think that I would have defended the idea of the dead requiring respect, as they are dead, but when I see something like that, I immediately think of all the people for which the dead mean a lot (my grand-ma when she visits my grand-pa's grave for instance), and all the cemetary violations of Muslim/Jewish cemetaries here in France, and I get angry (one strongly-thrown rock could break an ornament for example, who knows).

This is the social authoritarian in me. It surfaces here and again.

by Alex in Toulouse on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:00:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And just today, after getting back from the countryside to my friend's house, I took my bike that I had left there, and started biking home.

At this red-light junction (the light was red), I crossed the road in front of the frontmost cars, and stationed behind 3 other cyclists, on the left side of the road (to be in front of the cyclist path across the junction, which just hops from right side of the road to left at that particular traffic light, for no reason other than that the people overseeing cyclist paths in Toulouse are all either alcoholics are retards).

The light goes green. We 4 cyclists move forward, all aiming for the cyclist path ahead. But cars are trying to turn left, and we are on their path. This one car starts honking several times at us. 2 cyclists stop in the middle of the road, surprised & amazed (tourist couple), but I stopped right in front of the honking car, and stared at the honker. An old couple. The wife was embarrassed and looking the other way. The man (driver) was looking at me with anger in his eyes. And I just stayed there for a good thirty seconds at least, didn't show any emotion, didn't say anything ... just stared at him ... with no anger or anything in my eyes. If he had lowered his window glass, I would have then told him how little his impatience/reactionarism/polluting car meant to me.

Again, social authoritarian. I really dislike it when cars act as if they own the road. We cyclists already have to pedal fast sometimes to be nice to them, or squeeze near sidewalks ... and we always have to breathe their exhaust crap.

Now, if I were a real Gandhi, I would put things into perspective (maybe there was a pregnant woman in the backseat? maybe the guy had a really really bad day, or just learned he had a terrible disease). But I don't. +2 on the social scale.

by Alex in Toulouse on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:15:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The man (driver) was looking at me with anger in his eyes. And I just stayed there for a good thirty seconds at least, didn't show any emotion, didn't say anything

You're my hero!

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:19:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nuts. Gandhi would have done pretty much as you did. Passive resistance. The authoritarian was the driver.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:23:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

But Gandhi wouldn't have been waiting for the driver to lower his window glass and thus have an opportunity to word abuse at him (I was waiting just for that, and only looked away and cycled off once I thought I caught in his eyes that he was giving up).

by Alex in Toulouse on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:34:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Maybe he was a pro-CPE driver? (ie. my bike still has a lot of paper from the anti-CPE demonstration stuck in its wheels, as I've been too lazy to try to take it out - it's tied up well).

by Alex in Toulouse on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:38:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hah (4.00 / 3)

last time I did something similar, I almost got arrested because the car behind was a police car and they were unhappy about the whole thing and started threatening me...

It was even more outrageous because I was walking, and crossed on the pedestrian crossing when it was green for me and red for the car (but you know, the car has already 2 wheels beyond the red light, so they felt they had the right to go anyway). The car rode to me and actually came (slowly to bump against my legs. So I just stopped there, and look at the guy quietly, just waving for him to move back.

He stays there, bumper still against my legs, and I keep on looking at him. Meanwhile the light has switched to green again and the cars behind start honking. I'm still waving him to move back. Finally he does, I get out of the way, and he moves out. The next car is the police car and they stop by me and ask me what I think I'm doing trying to be a vigilante or something. I respond politely "it was red, and he bumped into me. I just asked him to unbump me". The policeman goes "surely you've gone through red lights before?". I answer "no". He says "liar" (yes, really). I shrug. They actually start saying "we could arrest you for this, you know, where do you live, what are you doing?" (I was in running shorts, coming back from playing squash, with my racket in my hands). I show them the window of my appartment, just above the crossing. "Well, maybe you should prove it, we'll take you to the police station". I shrug again and say "please do", looking at them, daring them to do it. They drive away. (I look nasty when I stare, but as I remain unflailingly polite, it's pretty unsettling, I'm told - but then I'm also told that one of these days someone will beat me up for my pains).

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:36:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hah (none / 1)

I'll give you +1000 points for that reaction, Jérôme, it honours all of us (personally I'm always a bit edgy near cops however). I think it's high time that pedestrians and cyclists start reclaiming town centres, even those of which are also drivers. It's not about drivers and cars being evil or any of that. It's about sharing a space together. And for now cars literally own all the space.

I always wave and smile when a car lets me pass first because I'm a cyclist, and likewise I always smile back when a car driver waves at me with a smile because I let him pass first.

About the staring bit, I got severely beat up once in a nightclub in Lanka for this. I was drunk and fooling around on the deserted dancefloor, near the club's closing hours. At some point I stopped and stared at the bar. For a while. But at no one in particular, I was just drunk and staring.

These three lankan guys come up to me from the bar and this one "group leader" says "what are you staring at you shit white boy" (or something like that), probably unhappy that I was having fun. And he hits me in the face. The funny thing is that in a flash instant I decided ... not to do anything about it. And then suddenly all three of them were kicking me in the stomach, punching me in the face ... but all along I had lifted my arms (like a footballer claiming he hasn't done a foul) in the air and was smiling. Soon enough the staff intervened, took those guys away ... right back to the bar! (ps: I learned later that the group leader was the nephew of the club's manager) I noticed the club's manager seemed to be lightly scolding one of them, the group leader.

Meanwhile 2 friends of mine (both lankans) had come to me, feeling sorry for not noticing anything earlier (being drunk and all, you know how it goes). One asks me if I am alright. I say I'm fine, and smile again. And this extra smile was probably too much for the group leader, still sitting at the bar. He gets up in a hurry and comes right back up to me, says something like "what are you laughing about you shit fucker" and immediately starts going for a punch at me again. Though this time I punched back, disappointed that my previous reaction had only angered him more (and got me nothing). It didn't last long, the staff seperated us, and I eventually left with my friends. I had bruises for a few weeks, one of my eyes wouldn't close properly and my ribs hurt like hell. The being drunk bit helped a lot that night, but the days after that it was a bit painful.

Anyhow what I really like about this whole event, apart from it teaching me that racism also exists in some brown people, is the posture I chose. Standing up (never falling) during the first round, with my arms in the air, and smiling, while being kicked and punched. I was really proud of myself. And still am.

Pity I gave up for the second round and punched back, otherwise it would have been perfect.

by Alex in Toulouse on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:55:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hah (none / 0)

I still have a picture of me after that night, somewhere. I look like Darth Maul in Star Wars.

by Alex in Toulouse on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:59:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hah (none / 0)

For boycotting purposes, the name of the nightclub is Legends (top floor of Majestic City).

by Alex in Toulouse on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:09:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hah (4.00 / 2)

Well, i'm kind of vicious on pedestrian crossings.

I show up, and show to the incoming cars that I intend to cross. This being Paris, a number of them accelerate to make it clear that they won't stop. I keep going, makingcareful not to actually step in front of the car, but getting very close. If the car doesn't stop, I just hit the mirror with my hand. it's noisy, it's harmless (well, most of the time, i've actually destroyed 17 mirrors already) and it pisses the drivers off to no end.

Many go on without stopping (even with the broken mirror!), but some stop (of course, in the middle of the street), jump out of their cars and come screaming out at me. I look at them and say, very politely, "Mais, Monsieur (ou Madame, surprisingly often), it's a pedestrian crossing" (Variations on "I was already on the road", "did you see what you do" "connard", "I'm going to take care of you") So I say, "would you like to make an accident declaration to your insurance company, Monsieur?" ("connard", blablabla). Still very polite, and never raising my voice while they tire themselves out with their insults, I go for the kill "you know, you would have wasted less time if you had stopped in the first place". They usually go away then in disgust.

The thing is, they fully know they did a stupid thing (they saw me and they accelerated) and they are stuck. So they are always looking for a provocation, a gesture of violence or aggression from me to react to that. The important is to not give them that, because otherwise things become totally unpredictable. If you stay polite and respectful, they never do a thing.

Once, this happened with the police watching. They came to me afterwards, saying "we saw what you did, this is not nice". I went, all naively and sweet, "what, he ran into me on a pedestrian crossing?". "you know, it could be called voluntary damages to goods". I said "I'd be curious to see that. Feel free to start a procedure". I was really disappointed that they chose to go away.

The scariest case was when I hit a car (still in Paris) which had what must have been 2 US special forces guys. Obviously American, tough looking, very short hair. The passenger came out of the car and started telling me in a nasty voice that i should not have done this. I started my usual routine - sadly, in English, an advantage I should not have conceded so easily. He came really clsoe to me, and I put my hands in fornt of me to put some distance, and i barely touched him. He then pushed me brutally, saying "don't you ever touch me (you punk - or something like that)". I kept my calm and kept talking, and eventually they went away, but it was pretty scary.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:14:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hah (none / 0)

I see that you are now a master in the arts of crossing the road!!

You and I (and others) should definitely start a Pedestrian & Cyclist rights group.

by Alex in Toulouse on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:22:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hah (4.00 / 2)

BMWs and Opels have the most fragile mirrors.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:24:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

true ! I forgot Alex was not monogamous. Interesting indeed...

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill

by Agnes a Paris on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:48:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Which puts me right on Gandhi and I strongly object to that. I am not scrawny and I don't walk around half-naked.

by Alex in Toulouse on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:44:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

But I thougt you go out in winter in sandals and no socks?!

by Fran on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:19:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What, you don't get your daughter-in-law to give you daily enemas?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:25:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Did anyone else answer "Strongly Disagree" to:
"The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

I don't like trick questions.

by Alex in Toulouse on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:35:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes. Dumb idea.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:37:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, how can we look at that question at this historical moment and not think, USSR, enemy, Bin Laden, enemy of USSR....

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:38:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I did. And I strongly agree with your dislike of trick questions! Down with the testmakers! Let us storm their Ivory towers!!

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:39:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I did too ! And dont't like not to agree with you.

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill

by Agnes a Paris on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:46:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes. It's about whether you're realpolitik or not. Or Machiavellian. Or something.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:07:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I took it once before and don't remember what my score was, so I just did it again and scored -5.00, -5.74.

I think the test is really much more oriented to the US political spectrum than the European one.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:39:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's a British test, maybe it's tailored to the Anglo-Saxon spectrum.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:42:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Is it? I guess the questions about abortion, teaching religious values in schools, and whether you can be moral without being religious threw me -- they seem much more like American issues than British ones.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:46:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

At least the last two are current in the UK. Abortion is current other places in Europe.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:47:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I think I probably realized that as soon as I wrote that comment.

Interestingly enough, I've never seen any of those issues discussed here at ET, at least not directly.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:54:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

They've been discussed a bit, but it doesn't come up much at a level visible here.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:15:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

They are current issues in all Catholic countries. Northern Europe is a lot like Minnesota in its Catholic/Lutheran social ethos. And so on, and so forth.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:48:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hmmm. I just dug around in my computer and found my original result: -6.75, -5.28.

Wonder what's up with that... I don't think I've become more economically conservative since September. Weird.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:43:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Maybe the previous time, you clicked more "strongly disagree"-s instead of "Disagree"-s?

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:44:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That could be it. I also hard time answering a few of the questions at all, because my attitude toward some of those issues depends a great deal on context, which is absent in this sort of test.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:49:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That frustrates me as well. A lot depends on what you have in mind when the question is asked. There's only a few that are not phrased to be grey, in my mind.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:00:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This bugs me about political tests in general. I only took this test for fun, I could write an essay instead of a graded yes/no choice for most questions - what's more, I don't think every yes or no corresponds clearly to the same sides of the two scales.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:03:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I have to say that even if some of the questions are issues in Europe, the test feels like it is calibrated on a US scale.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:04:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I think it's calibrated to give a decent spread over the mainstream. You'd need some sort of logarithmic scale to handle the extremes and far more questions.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:14:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So, are we looney left, then?

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:15:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, you, me and Alex aren't... but the rest...

And as for Jerome, he's Tony Blair in disguise!

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:26:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well...

The Third Way was always codename for New Centre-Right, but lookee where our favourity New Tory is positioned...

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:34:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That Dalai Lama guy is such a wuss.

by Alex in Toulouse on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:36:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Are we all greens? (none / 0)

http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/extremeright.php

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 06:17:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Are we all greens? (none / 0)

Well, the environmental axis is orthogonal to the test.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 06:22:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Incidentally, you should get Barbara to post her score, Migeru.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:29:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Political compass subthread (4.00 / 4)

Troublemaker.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:33:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hah, that's the 3rd axis which is missing from this test!

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:35:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That's no joke: the third axis should be along the lines of militaristic/pacifistic.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:29:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So then the 4th axis would be conformist/troublemaker... ;-)

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:32:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Are we sure the questions are always the same?

I've taken it three times, I think, and never got the same result. But maybe it just comes down to the way you feel that day about the (Dis)Agree/Strongly (Dis)Agree choices.

I've been beyond -7 on both scales. But I kept the page from the last time, June 2005, and then I scored -6.38; -6.15

But now I did it again and got -9.13; -8.21

That would appear to be my evolution over the nine months or so ET has been around... Yet I don't think I've changed. Hmmm. Perhaps I should go to DKos for a week and bring those numbers down?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:01:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wow...

LONG LIVE CHAIRMAN AFEOW!!!!

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:05:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I too did this test at least twice before (though I don't remember the results), and some questions indeed appeared new.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:09:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And what would you have us do for you today, Chairman?

by Alex in Toulouse on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:16:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Make a thousand flowers bloom?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:28:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Red ones, presumably? ;-)

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:33:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yellow, just to be contrarian.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:37:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -6.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.69

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:59:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

At least there's someone else with me in the neo-con corner...

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:04:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Argh! Thinking like you again! ;-)

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:04:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, the scary thing is that I guess we both used to feel that we were fairly much centrists (as in 0,0) at least some years ago, but the world seems to have shifted...

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:06:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I have evolved, too. I used to be higher on the authoritarian scale, but I've lost all trust in "benevolent" government. My economic positions have also become more nuanced. So, I've moved from what I would call Socialist towards Anarchism.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:08:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I was a bit surprised that I didn't come out more authoritarian, otoh I have never been fully pro-police as it were, but I think Asbos tipped me over the edge in some small way.

Of course, I think the drug issue is treated as an authoritarian/lib issue when at least in my mind it's a fantasist/realist issue.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:13:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That may be the first time I've seen 'nuanced' and 'anarchism' together in the same sentence.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:13:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This from a guy who doesn't wear shoes?

Anyway, here is an example of "nuanced anarchism"

"Property is theft" - Proudhon
"Property is liberty" - Proudhon
"Property is impossible" - Proudhon

"Foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson

;-)

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:17:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well that makes us centre left economically. It's just the pack of commies around here making us look bad.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:11:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Pack of commies? Maybe we are fractured into Bolshies, Maoists, and Trots?

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:29:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Political compass subthread (4.00 / 5)

Listen, Iosif Vissarionovich DoDo, we all know which group of the three liked trains best...

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:31:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Leon Davidovich Dodsky?

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:37:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, arguably, Chairman DoDao was the biggest proponent of a cross Asia train link, and he gave students free train travel at one point.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:42:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Political compass subthread (4.00 / 4)

Metatone, Migeru and I, the Gandhis, can now form a club and exclude all those bloody Sub-Commandante Marcoses.

by Alex in Toulouse on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:13:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It obviously indicates we are on a higher spiritual plane... ;-)

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:14:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Now it's you that made me laugh out loud.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:15:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

May I join? Do you think we will learn to levitate?

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

by Melanchthon on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:52:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Maybe Fran and Barbara can teach us.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:54:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's quiet simple, you only have to spin your wheels... ehmm, I mean your chakras fast enough... and up you go! :-))

by Fran on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:05:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Economic Left/Right: -1.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.77

Sounds about right to me.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:10:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Didn't expect you to come up that much right of us economically, neo-liberal boy.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:12:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I did.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:13:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

-8.13, -4.56

Makes it hard to fit in some places. Probably why I like it here.

"I said, 'Wait a minute, Chester, You know I'm a peaceful man...'" Robbie Robertson

by NearlyNormal on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:31:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I already knew that about Jerome because I've actually argued with him. His heart's in the right place. He just... well, harbors some faith in things like privatizing roads and utilities. He'll learn. ;-)

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:17:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

True. He's young yet.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:18:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He knows more about economics, too.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:18:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh yeah? Has he ever had his ass kicked by them?

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:20:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You misunderstand, knowing more about economics is a disability when it comes to understanding how the world really works. We should be treating him gently, he will need support to actually make practical suggestions... ;-)

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:24:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Economics (4.00 / 3)

I wrote a full economics PhD dissertation without a single equation. What does that say about me?

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:33:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Economics (4.00 / 3)

Oh, that's just your anarchist side showing through.

Tony Blair used to play guitar in a rock band.

Meaningless symbols of rebellion are a typical feature of future politicians... ;-)

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:36:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Economics (4.00 / 2)

That you're smart enough to overcome your upbringing. :-)

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:37:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Economics (none / 1)

That's always been my dream to read something like that. Economics without equations... Makes me moony...-)

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill

by Agnes a Paris on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:15:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I did too. I am afraid you have another intruder on board.

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill

by Agnes a Paris on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:04:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Intruder alert, intruder alert! To your batteries, Sub Commandante Marcoses! Aim for the eyes (while we Gandhis sit back and preach about the virtues of not aiming for the eyes).

by Alex in Toulouse on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:14:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm not sure what to make of this:
Economic Left/Right: -6.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.82

by Fran on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:14:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You're Swiss, any Authoritarian score under 0 should be doubled in significance... ;-)

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:15:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And what is that supposed to mean?

by Fran on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:17:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Conservative Swissmen: that's a widely held stereotype outside Switzerland. (Has its origins in real things like women's right to vote only from the seventies, and some fantasies about cuckoo clocks and so on.)

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:21:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, then it is maybe because I am a Swisswoman. :-)

Oh, and just to do some nitpicking, cuckoo clocks are from the Black Forest in Germany and not from Switzerland.

by Fran on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:27:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I know that, but many don't... just as many don't know that the real Dracula had no castle in Transsylvania.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:31:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Don't care about his castle, what did he score on the Political Compass?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:35:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

+10*i, +15?

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:41:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

As DoDo says, and please to note it was just a joke.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:27:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I know - I just forgot the smiley. :-)

by Fran on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:28:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Economic Left/Right: -8.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.13

I've always thought this test was a bit scewed, but maybe I'm just hanging out with a bunch of anarcho-peaceniks ... ;)

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:22:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Welcome to the workers' council meeting, comrade ;-)

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:26:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So here's a link to the main place "political compass" was mentioned on dKos last year.

I've only skimmed through the comments. It's an interesting distribution. The vast majority are still inside the lower left quadrant and there's a bunch of posters congregated around Chairman DoDao...

But, there is another set much closer to the (0,0) point.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:00:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No link in your comment.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:02:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The link?

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:04:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/11/10/15280/984

Arse.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:22:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -7.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.18

So, either I've become more extreme along both dimensions in the last two years, or the ground has shifted.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:19:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And so splits the People's Front of Judea, aaaaaaaa!

by Alex in Toulouse on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:24:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Call me a splitter.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:16:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hah! Join the reds!

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:30:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

But, Dear Chairman, with those sub-octavian numbers, isn't he a Menshevik too?

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:34:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ok, Octavianus, you can call me Septimius Severus.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:39:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hence the militaristic axis?

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:41:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Only a Menshevik would accuse others of being a Menshevik...

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:39:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nah, you're forgetting the Bolsheviks.

What I want to know now is who's Kerensky ?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:53:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Jerome, le pouvre.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:55:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How did you guess?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:14:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

-3.63/-6.10

I think the questions in the latter category are probably a bit too heavily weighted towards sex. But otherwise, hmmh, no surprises, I'm a social liberal - center left on econ (or straight left in the US), left on non-economic issues. Foreign policy seems to be mostly missing from the questionaire. IIRC my score is about the same as when I last took it a few years ago.

by MarekNYC on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:36:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It would be interesting to have a third "militaristic/pacifistic" axis, to distinguish "liberal hawks" like you (and, I presume, Francois) from bleeding-heart liberals.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:44:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes, a 3rd axis is much needed. The test says I'm in league with Gandhi...

by Francois in Paris on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:36:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You did say that "Been there, done that, done with that" was your opinion on "the white man's burden".

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:40:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Now wait a minute, if you're Gandhi then Metatone, Colman and I are Mother Teresa (Migeru defected).

by Alex in Toulouse on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:42:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Economic Left/Right: -7.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.97

Puts me very close to the Dalaï-Lama...

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

by Melanchthon on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:43:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hello Colman,

this one's for me: not much different from what it was two years ago or so. But Miguel prodded me to do it again... I guess to assure himself that we're still compatible as far as our political and social opinions go... and to let everyone else know that I'm equally "green" and "progressive" as he is... you know, I think most Czechs would cringe at these results... (we still remember socialism and communism a bit too vividly and it was no picnic)- I must admit the picture of Castro at the bottom of my test results freaked me out a bit!

Economic Left/Right: -6.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.13

"If you cannot say what you have to say in twenty minutes, you should go away and write a book about it." Lord Brabazon

by Barbara on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:52:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks for posting, Barbara.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:03:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, given how the Party thought about sexual matters, or about industrial pollution, being green and progressive is rather different :-)

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:48:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

By the way, do you remember Jan Svěrák's Ropáci?

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:57:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You know, I should be embarrassed, but I've never seen it. I know of it, though... maybe you can enlighten me?

"If you cannot say what you have to say in twenty minutes, you should go away and write a book about it." Lord Brabazon

by Barbara on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:00:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Svěrák wanted to make a documentary about the insane environmental damage caused by the Czech heavy industry and mining. But then he had the great idea to turn it into a BBC-ish fake documentary about a newly discovered, recently evolved species of plastic-rubbish-eating, oil-drinking creature: the Oil-Gobbler (I guess Ropáci in Czech). So while searching for the creature and asking locals, and finally finding and filming it in its "natural habitat", the terrible desolation was shown as background.

This was a big hit here in Hungary too, not the least because it was so well done many people believed that it is real.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:20:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That sounds just right up the Czech alley of animated TV fables.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:24:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Some of the questions present false dichotomies but my score is:

-2.25/-7.13

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:55:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Are we going to see any positive scores?

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:56:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hm, possibly, only just, from asdf. Maybe wchurchill?

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:05:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm listening to Jean Michel Jarre's Revolutions to celebrate how radical we all are.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:04:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh haven't listened to him in ages. Will have to pull those LPs back out but the record player is still broken for now.

by Alexandra in WMass (alexandra_wmass[a|t]yahoo[d|o|t]fr) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:05:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I took the test some time ago and scored in the lower left as I recall. However, as I have gotten older the appeals of grand theories have lessened and I've become more interested in a dimension which isn't represented:
practical - impractical.

Too many positions make unrealistic assumptions about how easily, if at all, their recommendations could be carried out. That's why, for example in my goals for the 21st Century essay I spent almost as much time discussing the objections to the goals and how to over come them as on the goals themselves.

History is strewn with grand ideas that never panned out, from Marx and Henry George, to the Socialists, Anarchists and, lately, the neo-cons, Libertarians and followers of Ayn Rand.

The most troubling groups these days seem to be the religious zealots (of all stripes) and those who try to force "democracy" down the throats of a country at the point of a bayonet.

Generally, it is assumed that the young tend toward the impractical (that is the idealistic) end and the old (that is the disillusioned or sceptical) tend toward the practical.

Policies not Politics
---- Daily Landscape

by rdf (robert.feinman@gmail.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:30:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Economic Left/Right: -3.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.95

Mmmm, looks like I'm violently somewhat a bit vaguely at the left of the center and right next to ...

... Gandhi???

?????

Whaa ... This test is just effed up.

by Francois in Paris on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:33:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Do not despair: you're to the authoritarian right or pretty much everyone here.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:34:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Mmmm, yeah. No surprise they call me a commie in the US and a fascist in France. I'm thinking about anchoring a boat somewhere in the middle of the Atlantic ocean (with a very long anchor chain).

by Francois in Paris on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:44:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Açores is not a bad place.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:47:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

OK here we go one more to add to the list:
Economic Left/Right: -7.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.62

Down there with Nelson Mandela and the Dalai Lama I guess...

by Alexandra in WMass (alexandra_wmass[a|t]yahoo[d|o|t]fr) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:03:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

what a strange poll. I found many of the questions so biased that they were hard to answer.

for example, the Q about people with more money having a right to "better" medical care assumes that the type of high-dollar high-tech medical "care" that is in vogue in the industrial West is innately "better" -- whereas imho it is in many cases merely a means of prolonging agony and picking people's pockets at the same time, and not anything I would want for myself or those I love. very rich people may be buying themselves access to dangerous experimental drugs and unnecessary suffering...

likewise the question about whether there are savage and civilised people, or only different cultures, assumes that I am prone to believing that one whole culture is savage and another civilised, or that "civilised" automatically means "good" and "savage" means bad -- whereas I believe that there are wicked and selfish people, good and kind and courteous peoplel in every culture and tribe. I just don't live in the same mental box as the poll designers :-)

anyway, having griped about these annoying assumptions on the part of the pollsters, I score

Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.92

down around 7 o'clock.

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 06:15:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I agree with this. Maybe 10% of the questions didn't quite make sense, or didn't have an answer that I thought was appropriate.

by wchurchill on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 09:02:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Economic Left/Right: -2.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.08

by wchurchill on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 07:34:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

We need to work on that Libertarian/Authoritian scale a bit but otherwise it looks like another one for the Right Wind Cadre.

Welcome, Comrade.

:-)

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 09:11:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

Economic Left -6.75 and Social Libertarina -6.72 ... I guess I didn't quite as strong feelings about things as DoDo...but I am still both more Economic Left and Social Libertarian than Ghandi!!

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia

by whataboutbob on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:51:30 PM EST

Re: Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

You're left enough to be put on a police watchlist :-)

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 01:59:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hello Comrades DoDo and Brit Guy! I got economic -8.75 and social -6.97. Who knew? I was feeling a bit short tempered though because of this cold, so I was strongly agreeing that people should not be forced to work even if they were perfectly able.

Also, I had Stormy's problem with it -- the lack of context made it difficult to answer some.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:01:34 PM EST

Hello Comrades DoDo and Brit Guy!

Let's sing, comrades!

Arise ye workers from your slumbers
Arise ye prisoners of want
For reason in revolt now thunders
And at last ends the age of cant.
Away with all your superstitions
Servile masses arise, arise
We'll change henceforth the old tradition
And spurn the dust to win the prize.

So comrades, come rally
And the last fight let us face
The Internationale unites the human race.
So comrades, come rally
And the last fight let us face
The Internationale unites the human race.

No more deluded by reaction
On tyrants only we'll make war
The soldiers too will take strike action
They'll break ranks and fight no more
And if those cannibals keep trying
To sacrifice us to their pride
They soon shall hear the bullets flying
We'll shoot the generals on our own side.

No saviour from on high delivers
No faith have we in prince or peer
Our own right hand the chains must shiver
Chains of hatred, greed and fear
E'er the thieves will give up their booty
And give to all a happier lot.
Each at the forge must do their duty
And we'll strike while the iron is hot.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:10:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So, you are into your home remedies again? I think the last time some recommended Wiskey or something :-) Hope your well soon!

by Fran on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:16:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks, Fran! I'm much better today. Yesterday I spent the whole day in bed watching home improvement shows on tv.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:22:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That must have been a real treat. :-) So now you are full of new ideas?

by Fran on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:29:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, the shows don't give me any new ideas because I'm pretty set in knowing how I want things, but they do make me feel all stirred up to get started. I also like the ones where they actually show you how to do stuff.

Most of the ones I watched yesterday were "Sell This House." It was helping people whose houses had been on the market too long. They'd install hidden cameras and hold an open house, then show the owners what people were saying. They'd then do a quick makeover and have another open house and tell you when the house sold.

I found it fascinating. The way some people live is just crazy! This one couple had no furniture in the living room -- just a tv and a patio cushion. Then they had their bedroom crammed with stuff and a giant birdcage looming over everything. They also had a pet pig roaming around. When the couple were shown the comments, they were all "yup, we figgered it was somethin' like that."

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:47:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

LOL... thanks for that image, Izzy

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:49:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah, it really is strange how some people live. Once when I was looking or a new apartment, I saw one that was full of old (not antique) furniture, really worn and in bad shape. Turned out the woman worked for a furniture company.

by Fran on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:59:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You clearly need a spicy curry, proceed to my diary and get some inspiration... ;-)

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:23:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thank you, Metatone. I'd certainly do that if a) it didn't require cooking and, b) having been raised by Scots I could handle anything spicier than, say, a very mild mustard. I actually feel injured by black pepper.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:29:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

When we meet up at a far in the future ET meetup, I'll have to cook a gentle curry for you then...

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 02:32:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Happy to hear you are better now Izzy.
Totally out of context (well, it might make you smile, so not that out of context), but another chapter of Gone with the windmill is out.
However, the political compass sounds more fun. I will save that for tomorrow morning first thing at the office.

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill

by Agnes a Paris on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:09:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

Thanks Agnes. I don't know why because I don't like romances, but I enjoy reading your Windmill series. Sorry I don't comment on them so much. Although I did sort of get sucked into that code-breaking thread, didn't I? Anyway, they're fun.

And what's happened to Remember Joe? I mean Tom? I mean ... Rob, is it?

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:15:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ruppert ? Well, D. fired him fair and square and he's being prosecuted for all Jacques Chirac's sins .. :)

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill

by Agnes a Paris on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:17:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (4.00 / 4)

Izzy, No. 21,597 on the list... </bob>

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:23:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oops, you did expose me on that too. Gone with the windmill is not a romance.
It is an economic psychodrama dealing with the complex relationship between wind speed, rotor height and probability to fall in love calculated using a stochastic law. Equation needed here, I'm afraid.

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill

by Agnes a Paris on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:43:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This is an open thread, right?

Number of cities you can fly to from the following airports:

Frankfort Main: 233
Paris CDG : 220
Amsterdam Schipol: 203
Munich: 179
Heathrow: 178

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:25:17 PM EST

Another nitpick (none / 0)

Frankfurt am Main! Your French got in the way :-)

When I lived nearby, my father used to took us out watching planes every few months. That airport is a monster. (Now with an ICE high-speed train station.)

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:32:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Another nitpick (4.00 / 2)

Yep, to the top 3 airports you should really add all the cities that can be reached by train directly from the extremely convenient train stations right in their heart. Schipol is the best for this, and will also soon be connected to the new high speed line they are building to Brussels and further.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:39:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Another nitpick (none / 0)

"extremely convenient train stations right in the city heart" : like Paris gare du Nord and London Waterloo, you mean ? ;-)

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill

by Agnes a Paris on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:58:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Another nitpick (none / 0)

I think he meant the train stations in the heart of airports?

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:01:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

This is an open thread, right?

You're lucky we're all libertarian socialists and not Stalinists.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:42:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Forgot to post this in the Breaksfast (none / 1)

Pakistan seeks same nuclear deal as India
By Farhan Bokhari in Islamabad
Pakistan's failure to secure US nuclear technology for civilian use has triggered the most difficult challenge for the two countries since the terrorist attacks on the US in 2001, Pakistani officials warned yesterday.
Amid growing criticism in Pakistan of the US agreement to supply civil nuclear technology to India, Pakistan's ambassador to Washington called for the two south Asian countries to be treated equally.
"Instead of a country-specific deal on a subject as critical as nuclear technology, there should be a package for both India and Pakistan," said Jehangir Karamat, Pakistan's former army chief, in Dawn, the country's English-language newspaper.
Islamabad officials said Pakistan, which is the closest US ally in the war on terror, was pressing Washington for concessions similar to those offered to Delhi during this month's visit to south Asia by President George W. Bush.
"India and Pakistan are both de facto nuclear powers, we have both carried out nuclear tests and we are both non-signatories to the NPT [non-proliferation treaty]" said one. "The US should not discriminate between us."

And thus it begins.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:43:01 PM EST

The Oil Drum (none / 0)

now has a UK-specific website: http://uk.theoildrum.com/

Intersting graph in this thread: UK Energy Gap

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:44:49 PM EST

Re: The Oil Drum (none / 0)

The UK has peaked!

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:48:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

some ideas for tomorrow's agony aunt section ?
I have one in mind, but thought evening or mid-day break would carry inspiring ideas.

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill

by Agnes a Paris on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 03:56:05 PM EST

Re: as this is an open thread... (none / 1)

How about one for Jerome? "Help, I'm the only neo-lib on the site, and it's my site!"

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:05:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: as this is an open thread... (none / 1)

I cannot be my own agony aunt. That one would be for Jerome and... myself! :)

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill

by Agnes a Paris on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:09:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You didn't post a score?

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:19:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

C'mon, Agnes, it's not like we're asking you about your age or weight.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:22:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: as this is an open thread... (none / 1)

You shouldn't have asked : I turned 30 last December and weight 46 kg.
OK, I'll do it, but if this weren't for you ...:)

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill

by Agnes a Paris on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:28:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I didn't ask.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:32:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

you did : you ask for my scores <s> they are below

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill

by Agnes a Paris on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:42:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

-5.88
-3.74

where did you say Gandhi was ?...

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill

by Agnes a Paris on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:41:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

HA!

So, you're no neo-liberal at all - infact your numbers tell you should leave your current job tout de suite :-)

As for your social numbers: what!?!?!?!? Did you strongly agree that a woman's place is at home or what?

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:54:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

She may have advocated religious values in school.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:56:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

perhaps the test mischievously turned all my "strongly disagree" into "strongly agree" on those items. Wicked tricky questions .. !

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill

by Agnes a Paris on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:06:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: what figures say... (none / 1)

Yeah Agnès, come on! Join the world of writing crazy software that no one will buy, or the world of measuring the time that trains take to go beneath underpasses, it'll be much more in adequation with your economic score!!

by Alex in Toulouse on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:58:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not at all !!! I strongly disagreed to that qustion. Maybe should do the test again. So how does that place me on the social axis ?

When through hell, just keep going. W. Churchill

by Agnes a Paris on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:02:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

There was one question I wondered about -- it was in the law and order section, and it said something like "There are some people that it's useless to try to rehabilitate." I ended up disagreeing with that because of the way it was worded.

I absolutely believe there are some people who cannot be rehabilitated, so if they'd just asked that, my social score might've changed. Still, the way it was worded I think it's better for society as a whole to go through the rehabilitation process for everyone, no matter how hopeless. But I'd never link success in the program for release for, say, serial killers.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:09:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

But I'd never link success in the program for release for, say, serial killers.

like those occupying the White House at present?

<snark alert>

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 06:20:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes, actually. And I'm not being snarky. Crimes against humanity and all that.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 07:28:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

For Alex (none / 0)

France drafts copyright law to open up iTunes
Apple Computer could on Tuesday be forced to open up its digital music business to competitors after a vote in the French parliament.
The owner of iTunes, the online music store, and the iPod digital music player, will have to choose between making downloaded music compatible with rival platforms or pulling out of France if, as expected, the parliament in Paris approves a draft copyright law.
Software in digital downloads from iTunes prevents music being played by any rival to the popular iPod, but the French bill seeks to impose "interoperability" on online music stores and break Apple's closed system.
"It is unacceptable that?.?.?.?the key should be controlled by a monopoly. France is against monopolies," said Martin Rogard, an adviser at the French Culture Ministry. "The consumer must be able to listen to the music they have bought on no matter what platform."

I must admit I am thoroughly confused on this issue.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:17:16 PM EST

Re: For Alex (none / 0)

Confused? It's simple: Apple didn't lobby the UMP like its competition did.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:23:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For Alex (none / 1)

In the closing minutes of the debats, the Socialists and UMP rewrote article 7 of the DADVSI law, and agree together on its content. This article now states that interoperability is sacro-saint (this was a nice moment of fresh air after days of butchery).

This article means that any proprietary format must publish information on its structure so that other software/OSes can read it ... and this is a problem for iTunes which doesn't want its files to be readable under Linux for example.

Frankly, I couldn't believe it when this happened (at 4 in the morning). There were only a few of us left watching at that time but boy did we cheer. This is even the kind of article which can utterly screw up some parts of the law which protect DRM (digital rights management devices).

by Alex in Toulouse on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:26:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For Alex (none / 0)

You mean the majoors will have to release their DRM specs to free software developers?

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:30:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For Alex (none / 0)

For interoperability purposes they may just have to.

Again this is the kind of thing which shows how unprepared this law is ... I mean on the one hand they restrict everything, and on the other hand they allow this one thing that sort of neutralizes the worst restrictions. It's very odd (but good).

Though if all French internet software developers have to flee France for fear of being nailed by amendement 150, perhaps all commercial content providers may have to leave France too for fear of having to provide their specs. Which will make France a sort of no man's land of computing.

by Alex in Toulouse on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:34:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For Alex (none / 0)

See? Regulation is bad for business...

...especially when the regulation has been written at the behest of business.

Now seriously, there will be attempts at blaming the EU directive for this mess, so someone will have to be ready to set them straight on that one.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:54:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For Alex (none / 0)

This is hilarious. DRM has to be included, and it has to be kept secret, but the details have to be shared to ensure interoperability.

Someone should give these people their own comedy show.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:23:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For Alex (none / 0)

Screws over Apple: they're going to have contracts with the music business that prevent them complying with it. I suspect they'll close iTunes France in that case, which should be good for a laugh.

I have the sense that Apple would cheerfully sell songs without DRM if the music industry would allow it. They clearly know that DRM is daft and broken but it seems as if they're required to use it if they want to play with the music industry.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:31:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For Alex (none / 0)

That law is a steaming pile of...

Oh, I'd better be careful, I'm the red-hottest revolutionary around here, I'm surely being watched...

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:39:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The ET Political Compass (4.00 / 4)

Do people want to see a version with names?

by the way, this picture can be updated, so please keep posting your scores and I'll add the points!

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:51:37 PM EST

Oh absolutely, knowing which neighbour on the graph to mock is half the fun...

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 04:58:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And be sure to include Ghandi.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:00:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I second that.

by Alex in Toulouse on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:01:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And you can include my anarcho-socialist wife at -6.25,-8.00.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:02:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

My accountant-client-property-investment-manager wife that is. Out plotting the downfall of international capitalism when she's not too busy arranging the purchase of small cities in emerging democracies.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:09:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It is comforting to know, through, that someone on ET is capable of writing the contracts so we can outsource barricade building "Come the Revolution."

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:19:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

She'll hire someone to write the contracts. And bill us for the hours and the expenses. But she'll wave the flag over the barricade.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:23:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Excuse me?? No...I'll be out with my trusty steed Grizzly making sure you're waving the flag correctly!

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars. Oscar Wilde

by Sam on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:25:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I think you should wait for Chairman Afew to make a decision that will be properly relayed to the party cadre through the apparatus of ComInform.

In other words: Go For It, Man.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:05:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Maybe you could additionally post the quadrant we're all in alone, splitting it into four quadrants of its own (but not using the medians for the splits, just the regular -5s).

by Alex in Toulouse on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:11:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It looks like I'm leading the pack towards the inevitable end of history...

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:23:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The ET Political Compass (4.00 / 4)

Now I'm confused: why does DKos feel so much to the right? (see the discussion in this recent thread)

Note that the DKos graph has 130 points, while ours has about 20, so the extreme (economic) right points in teh Dkos distribution are just tails that might well be present in our population, too.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 05:15:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Because the poll measures attitudes to problems rather than solutions? dKos seems to our right on solutions - take the freedom/fairness of contracts. The conventional wisdom is that Europe's "lack of freedom" hurts the poor. So you can both believe the poor need help and be against laws that restrict employer's "freedom". They want broadly the same outcomes as us, they just don't admit our solutions as possible answers because the debate in the US is so cast in terms of freedom being paramount.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 05:21:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The other possibility is a selection effect: the people in that sector are far more likely to take the test and post their results. Don't know why that would be, except maybe that the general feeling on dKos is that you're meant to be in that quadrant so people don't admit they're not for fear of appearing socially undesirable. However Kos himself is well within our mainstream by score and would (I suspect) consider many of our opinions wacko-left.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 05:24:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Actually, to me it points up, once again that this is a test based around the US consensus.

As an example of a question like this:

"Public broadcasters should never receive moeny from the state." (I can't remember the exact wording.)

In the UK at least, whilst there is a set of people who are so anti-BBC they might vote "Strongly Agree" it is practically assured that most people will vote "Disagree" or "Strongly Disagree" because the number of people who believe that the BBC should get NO state funding is very small. The problem is, this question does nothing to discriminate (for example) between Tories, Lib Dems, Labour and SWP in the UK, but it will clearly put US Dems in the left and US Repubs on the right because this is something they have a sharp disagreement about.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 01:01:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It would get a certain amount of sympathy here I suspect.

In any case, it's meant to be global. The Tories haven't been all that far right traditionally.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 01:03:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm not saying that it's a true "unthinkable" in the UK context, just that it's really not the level of discriminator that it is in the US context. And I think that's true for a lot of the questions. If you sit with them and think carefully about European society then it's hard to be "Strongly Agree/Disagree" with the way they have phrased their economic questions.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 01:08:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, the selection effect actually chimes with Atlantic Review's recent observation that it's only the US rightwingers that have an interest in European views and affairs.

i.e. The graph of the community is largely accurate, so long as you extrapolate up from 130 to a bigger number and realise there are enough outliers on the right to make a conversation.

Atlantic Review's experience is it's only those on the right who really read/comment on European issues (and I would argue on foreign affairs generally.) Since those are the diaries we actually look at, it follows that we would experience a more "rightward" dKos than we would expect.

Dammit, I should really write a diary for him, but I think his deadline is too tight at this time.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 02:05:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Why is it only those on the right that care about European issues? Is it because progressives are isolationists, or too busy worrying their domestic problems (and who can blame them)?.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 02:16:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, it's his theory, not mine (and indeed I'm not sure if I buy it completely, although his anecdotal data is quite compelling) so I don't know if I'm a good person to answer this.

With that caveat:

Part of it certainly is that a lot on the left are isolationist. Some are just in the historical US tradition of isolation, other are that way in reaction to the sheer tawdryness of US foreign adventures from REagan onwards.
In terms of dKos diaries, some are just too busy, I know I can barely keep up with the diaries here on ET, so this is a serious effect.
Sometimes good people just say little when they have little to say, whilst the emptier cans rattle louder.
There is a definite sense that the Repubs have managed to make "cheese eating surrender economists" politcally toxic in the US. Thus, there's a reluctance to be seen supporting multilateralism or European style economics. It's unAmerican! Under such unconscious pressure, sometimes people just go quiet.

I think (4) is a big one. The US is filled with pronouncements about life in Europe. It's hard to see how you could live in that atmosphere and then argue "we need to pull the good things out of the European model and implement them here." It's even harder in the foreign policy arena I suspect.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 02:45:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wasn't the Atlantic review issue only concerned with US/German relations ?

Politics has to be relevant and comprehensible. Foreign politics, like domestic politics, are only meaningful in so far as they impact you as an individual. So berating citizens of one country for being disinterested in the politics of countries with minimal impact on their life is kinda beside the point. I doubt the British have much more awareness of German politics than Americans do.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Mar 23rd, 2006 at 05:15:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The ET Political Compass (4.00 / 4)

I think it has to do with deep-lying cultural assumptions that are not the same between Americans and Europeans. As Colman says, freedom is probably the key notion.

To the majority of Americans (therefore including a fair number who count themselves on the left), free enterprise is a fundamental value, and it means the absolute freedom of the entrepreneur. Their view of employer/employee relations is not realistic, it belongs to the domain of belief. It's just axiomatic, a "no-brainer" to them, that there is a simple common-law contract between employer and employee and that the situation is naturally equitable. They can't conceive of the idea that the employer is almost always in a position of power relative to the employee. That law, jurisprudence, or government arbitration should attempt to define a more equitable framework offering the employee some guarantees, seems to them just unwarranted and even crazy interference.

OTOH, there were plenty of Kossacks on that CPE thread yesterday, who didn't take that view. They were union guys. There may be a chicken/egg problem there -- did they join a union because their way of thinking led them there, or did they develop that way of thinking after joining a union? Whichever, they were aware of the existence of a balance of power.

Oh, and the first group, who seem to me mainstream Americans who buy into the main myth structure, might still give answers to many questions in the PolComp that would place them in the lower left quadrant. Not far left on Economy, further down on Libertarian.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 06:01:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (4.00 / 4)

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:20:53 PM EST

Any chance you could add titles to the names?

I mean, Comrade Chairman down there?

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:26:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I think the "Comrade Chairman" is obvious from the context.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:27:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So does Jérôme get Leader of the Counter-Revolution?

I presume I get the title Mr Boring?

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:28:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So does Jérôme get Leader of the Counter-Revolution?

Emmanuel Orguillet!

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:37:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Comrade Chairman (none / 0)

Nah, that result's an outlier compared to several others I've done. (Probably reading a whole DKos thread did it to me). My average score is near -7; -7.

Who does that leave in the Chairman position?

Chairman DoDao!

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 02:12:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Actually, a committee of three: DoDao, Sam and Izzy.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 02:15:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Comrade Chairman (none / 1)

With ThatBritGuy, we are the Gang of Four!

Now, who is our nemesis Deng Xiao-Ping?

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 02:51:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

If you add ThatBritGuy you have to bring in poemless.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 06:17:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

darn, I came in late... any hope of a redrawn chart with us late-arriving data points?

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 02:39:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You're there. Try reloading the labelled graph image.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 02:53:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I also added Elco.B

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 02:56:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

yow-za! this is the first time I have ever felt middle-of-the-road ... but perhaps this is because Green/energy issues were not on the question list?

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 04:58:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You're right: environmental issues are largely orthogonal to this test.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 05:00:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Comrade Chairman (none / 1)

I know how you feel. This is the first time I've been to right of anybody on anything!

(Sob I don't want to have to go plant rice!)

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 09:20:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Planting rice is one of the good jobs...

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 09:45:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

In point of fact, of course, the Chairman would have been way up near the top on the Authoritarian scale...

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 04:08:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, and the real Mao wasn't that much of a social progressive either, nor did he think about environment-friendly economics (e.g. I'd place him at -5, +8), so stop playing spoilsports :-)

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 04:40:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What, you don't want to be Chairman?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 06:09:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Are you testing my loyalty, o Comrade Chairman?

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 06:13:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

With a couple of million petit-bourgeois counter-revolutionary intellectuals about to leave for the rice-paddies to work till they drop, I think you'd better guess the right answer to that question.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 07:12:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

oops, DoDo, you should have used a capital 'O' to address Comrade Chairman. Your days are numbered now.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 07:18:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

A triumvirate wouldn't be nearly as much fun.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 06:18:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

So - a clear French right wing taking shape there. (Apart from Alex, who's a splitter.)

And conversely a strong US contingent that's more left wing than many of the Euros.

So - how do we go about getting starting our own parties and getting secret loans?

(That was the point of this, wasn't it?)

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:26:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I see whataboutbob is the perfect frontpager: he can't be accused of bias when doing the diary promotions!

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:49:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And the Convex Hull Awards (nicknamed the Extremist Awards) go to (in clockwise order):

Agnes a Paris
Francois a Paris
MarekNYC
Jerome a Paris
ATinNM
Sam
Afew
Izzy
NearlyNormal

Let's have a round of applause!

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 06:03:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sorry, Marek does not get a Convex Hull Award, but a Pareto Optimal Award (the consolation prize).

Everyone else is just mainstream, especially Bob.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 06:05:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Queen of the Whip award goes to Agnès ;)
The Lord of Cigars award goes to Jérôme.
Afew racks up both the Chairman Mao and the Rastafarai awards.

by Alex in Toulouse on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 06:09:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Does this translate as ...

Left to Right rankings:

afew
Izzy
DoDo / ThatBritGuy / poemless
NearlyNomad
Melanchthon / Alexandra in WMass
dvx / Migeru
Alex in Toulouse / Barbara
whataboutbob
Sam
Fran
Metatone
Agnès
Colman
François
MarekNYC
AtinTM
Jérôme

Cushion to Whip rankings:

afew
Sam
DoDo
ThatBritGuy
Migeru
poemless / Barbara / AtinTM
Izzy / Melanchthon
Jérôme
whataboutbob
Alexandra
dvx
MarekNYC
Metatone
Alex
François
Fran
NearlyNomad
Agnès

by Alex in Toulouse on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 06:22:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Bah I think I left out half the names there. Sorry Colman, and please don't point that digeridoo at me.
Ok time for me to go to bed (early for a change!)

by Alex in Toulouse on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 06:24:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

These Parisians ... alala Paris.

by Alex in Toulouse on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 06:05:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And the... (none / 0)

crowd goes wild!!1

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 06:08:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wait... why am I gone? I was there this morning.

<sniff> Nobody even missed me....

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 12:41:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Fixed, now.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 02:04:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks! I feel less invisible already.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 02:06:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Migeru, my score is roughly -7 for social, -2 for economics.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 01:17:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

http://www.okcupid.com/politics

We need more tests to confirm our findings.
This one doesn't seem too bad (although US-centered).

Haven't done it yet.

by Alex in Toulouse on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 05:55:33 PM EST

Nah, no good. Fully US-centered so somewhat unusable for a lot of us.

Anyhow I tried it and found that I was Economically 1% permissive and Socially 75% permissive, whatever that means.

by Alex in Toulouse on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 06:02:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yep. And too many ambiguous questions where I could only choose a mild yes/no. Anyway, 5%/68%/Socialist.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 06:16:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Just came home from work.
I read this stuf about that test:
my results = -6,75 and -6,82
Have to find out yet what that means.

The struggle of man against tyranny is the struggle of memory against forgetting.(Kundera)

by Elco B (elcob at scarlet dot be) on Mon Mar 20th, 2006 at 06:41:27 PM EST

It means you fit right in, I suppose.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 01:38:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Mine were both around -3, so I'm the conservative, I guess...

by asdf on Tue Mar 21st, 2006 at 10:32:37 PM EST

Hey, we need to to be accurate to 2 decimal places!

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Mar 22nd, 2006 at 03:28:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]