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The Louvre at the Bastille according to NYT

by Lupin Sat Apr 1st, 2006 at 05:20:29 AM EST

I'm not Jerome and I don't have the skills to debunk articles from the FT or the WSJ the way he does, but this bit from the NYT reprinted in today's HERALD-TRIBUNE made me jump:

Thousands of students were already in the streets, disrupting traffic on the Rue de Rivoli near the Louvre museum at the Place de la Bastille.

Here is the link - the actual quote in on page 2.

The Louvre Museum is not at the Bastille, last I checked.

From the diaries ~ whataboutbob


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Yep, typical and pathetic. But then maybe they took geography as per the Da Vinci code, where it is just as poetic.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sat Apr 1st, 2006 at 04:56:32 AM EST
What a pathetic book that was.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Apr 1st, 2006 at 01:29:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But good at inspiring research in some really interesting things.

(And if you want a real standard for pathetic, read Brown's other work Digital Fortress - I'm sure you'll 'enjoy' the crude caricature of Spain found therein...)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sat Apr 1st, 2006 at 02:54:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, thanks, I already 'enjoyed' the crude caricature of France enough to let the book fall of my hands 1/3 of the way into it.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Apr 1st, 2006 at 03:13:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Having openly admitted to considering DVC a guilty pleasure (mostly because of the combo of good mystery, baaaad catholics and goddess worship) I do think that many many Americans are learning things like history and geography from this kind of drivel.  Seriously.

And there is no coincidence between the crap that Americans read and the fact that these books are all on the NEW YORK TIMES bestsellers list.  None.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Sat Apr 1st, 2006 at 01:46:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I recommend this because it is typical of articles about France: the imaginary version of things is more important than the reality.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sat Apr 1st, 2006 at 04:57:25 AM EST
Not just regarding France.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sat Apr 1st, 2006 at 06:37:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Kafka's Amerika is, reportedly, just as imaginary.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Apr 1st, 2006 at 01:31:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
...it is typical of articles about France:
the imaginary version of things is more important than the reality.
---
Not only about France...it's American way...making "reality" as it is desirable from their point of view and their interests...
And intentionally...This time it is France...


Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein
by vbo on Sat Apr 1st, 2006 at 05:14:06 AM EST
...and not just the American way, I'm afraid.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sat Apr 1st, 2006 at 06:37:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well yes. It's just more exposed with USA because they are under the light now. It bothers me more then any other country "reality making" because they are preaching (waving with guns and bombs) to others what they do not practice at all. They are waging wars in the name of "freedom" and "democracy" by making simple lies look as a truth (WMD etc.)...When they are exposed NOTHING HAPPEN ...it sometimes looks like Americans ( and the world) are on drugs...hypnotized...or something...responsibility is forgotten word...USA lies are deadly...people die in masses...

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein
by vbo on Sat Apr 1st, 2006 at 08:46:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
it sometimes looks like Americans ( and the world) are on drugs...hypnotized...or something...

My friend, American politicians would sooner criminalize the act of hypnotizing people than they would legalize the act of taking drugs.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Sat Apr 1st, 2006 at 08:59:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In Spike Lee's Inside Man:

Cops: "Where are you from?"
Interviewed man: "I'm from Armenia."
Cops: (alerted) "Albania!?!? So you speak Albanian?"
Interviewed man: (taken aback) "No, it's - it's - I1m from Armenia!"
Cops: "What's the difference?"

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sat Apr 1st, 2006 at 06:41:14 AM EST
No, no, DoDo.  It's the FBI that doesn't know the difference between a Mexican and an Arab.  I kid you not.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Sat Apr 1st, 2006 at 09:05:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Btw, this fairly recent website, sponsored by Le Monde and a few other private actors, and led by two former directors of the IFOP and Sofres polling institutes, allows internet users to give their opinion on various topics.

These polls are not built on any sociological bias like regular polls are (ie. regular polls try to get a perfect balanced match of chosen people), but the website maintains an up to date listing of voter info (like region, sex, salary etc and it seems that overall the left and right wing balance is accurate, though social group, age and sex is not well balanced out ... ie. there are way more men, and the young middle class is more represented).

The good thing is that there are sometimes up to 6000 respondents to any given poll, and that we are told when someone will be provided with the results (ie. we're told "results will be transmitted to this Minister" or "this Union leader" etc)

It's all in French, of course:
www.expression-publique.com

by Alex in Toulouse on Sat Apr 1st, 2006 at 07:36:50 AM EST
The Louvre Museum is not at the Bastille, last I checked.

No, of course, the Louvre is not the Bastille. But, Lupin, as an honorary French, you should know that the first and last time they did the Bastille, they, mmmhh...

... went a little bit overboard :)

"The Destruction of the Bastille, 14th of July 1789" by Jean Houel.

No much let to protest around.

So, in the absence of any decent bit left from the Bastille, it's perfectly natural that protesters fall back on the Louvre (which also had its own little brush with destruction 80 years later).
by Francois in Paris on Sat Apr 1st, 2006 at 08:56:22 AM EST
Oh, and just wait for the Da Vinci Code movie to open in NY. I'm sure NYT journos will learn a lot about Parisian geography.
by Francois in Paris on Sat Apr 1st, 2006 at 09:27:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
To be fair, if I had a dollar (or a euro) for each time I read some rubbish about America in a French newspaper, I'd be rich.

How many times have you read an article in a paper (say, LE MONDE, LIBERATION, LE FIGARO) about a subject you really know, and said to yourselves, "this is rubbish."

Now if that rule applies to all the other articles in the same paper......

The American press used to be A LOT better at fact-checking in the 80s.  Since the mid-90s there's been a steady deterioration of the quality and accuracy of information you get in the papers. (And I'm not talking politics).

I once wrote to the LA TIMES to point out that the sun didn't set on the Pacific in Argentina.

Most French and British journalists, for example, still can't write a single article about American television (what the French call PAF, paysage audiovisuel) that is not half-filled with rubbish.

As a result when the subject comes up, I spend a lot of time (like Jerome) debunking misperceptions.

Back to the article, I'm somewhat shocked the H-T copyeditors didn't catch that one.

by Lupin on Sat Apr 1st, 2006 at 09:40:28 AM EST
They even quote help from two persons with French names... I get the impression the journalist may first have typed "and" rather than "at"... Then a copyeditor decided "and" was surely wrong...

Unless it's an elaborate Poisson d'Avril!

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Apr 1st, 2006 at 10:07:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Another nice bit is this:

François Hollande, leader of the opposition Socialist Party, said Chirac was "not on a path to appeasement."

Given the negative connotation of "appeasement", it might have been better to translate "apaisement" by "calming things down" or "cooling things off", which is all Hollande meant.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Apr 1st, 2006 at 10:14:18 AM EST
You should have resisted harder when Disney rolled into town.

On the one hand - a European philosophical tradition of rational enquiry, public debate and reality checking.

On the other - it's cartoon time. And this time it's political.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Apr 1st, 2006 at 11:01:25 AM EST
Brilliant...  Let me guess, Jason Blair was reporting from the ground...

The really sickenning aspect of this is that the folks at the NYT truly fancy themselves the cultural elite of America and they unboubtedly jaunt off to gay Paris for fine dining and shopping trips, and just because they can.  Of course, when all your travels consist of hopping in cabs and saying "take me to X", you don't have to bother yourself with the trouble of actually learning your way around the place on your own.  Though this screw up surely has more to do with lousy reporting than lack of geographical knowledge.  Christ, if there is one place in Paris every American tourist knows the location of it's the Louvre.  The Louvre and the Eiffel Tower.

On a not bitching note, I've been reading the Cara Black mysteries and if you want some serious insider Parsian geography lessons, this is your gal!  Love it.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Sat Apr 1st, 2006 at 01:11:40 PM EST
I think you're over-deconstructing this article.

"on the Rue de Rivoli near the Louvre museum at the Place de la Bastille"

can be read as "on the Rue de Rivoli at the Place de la Bastille, near the Louvre museum."

by asdf on Mon Apr 3rd, 2006 at 12:10:02 AM EST


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