We call'em senatori a vita.

They usually don't meddle in the formation of governments. They're in the cosmos far beyond the madding crowd.

The problem is the vote of confidence to form the government. I'll have to check this aspect when I get hold of my wits tomorrow.

It seems the Union will have a one Senator advantage after all due to foreign senators. Let's hope.

Scalfaro, Napolitano e Montalcini have strong relationships with the Prodi coalition, so their vote (at least for the initial government creation) will most certainly be casted with the Union. Cossiga is kind of a crazy horse, so you can't really say, but he fell out with Berlusconi a while ago. Andreotti could ask for something in return for his vote, and where he votes Colombo will probably follow. I have no idea about Pininfarina (didn't even know he was a senator!).

Is Ass Italiane in South America a left-leaning list?

Lenin is a known Eurosceptic (more British than the British), so he exaggerates, but it is true that Prodi's record as PM is not too good, he provoked the Rifondazione Communista rebellion by violating the coalition pact, and that his tenure as Commission President didn't have many positive reforms (then again, his hands were tied, blame the Council).

_{*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

international capital and its paid monkeys (economists).

That's a nice touch.

L'Unione 44.21%, Forza Italia 21.26%, ASS.ITAL.SUD AMERICA 9.22%

No change (and none possible) in the seat allocation.

(And however I managed to mix up L'Unità and L'Unione...)

_{*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

If the law allows expat parties with more than 3% to be represented, then those South American Italians might be kingmakers. I have the feeling that there might be another reading of the rules. It says "Any remaining seats shall be assigned to those lists for which the division calculations have produced the highest remainders". Note the plural: I assume this means that the first two seats will be given to the two parties with the highest remainders. Thus it will be 3-2-1, and those folks of "Ass. italiane in Sud America" would be in the drivers' seat. So I ask: what exactly are their politics?

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake

I interpret the application of the translation slightly differently for the North America situation.

The law says: "Any remaining seats shall be assigned to those lists for which the division calculations have produced the highest remainders."  I think that the significant thing is the use of the plural 'lists' and 'remainders', which implies to me that one seat each will be given to the two highest, ie L'Unita and Forza.

That also has somewhat more logic & fairness attached to it!

I can see on La Repubblica's site that it's, for the Senate:

Europe (453 out of 479 counted):
53.0% Prodi vs 24.4% Berlu => +2 seats for Prodi

Asia/Africa/Oceania/Antarctica (107 out of 113 counted):
46.1% Prodi vs 35.6% Berlu => +1 seat for Prodi

America Settentrionale e Centrale (92 out of 100 counted):
37.8% Prodi vs 30.6% Berlu => +1 seat for Prodi

America Meridionale (182 out of 204 counted):
31,6% Ass Italiane, 29.3% Prodi, 11% Berlu => if I interpreted de Ghondi correctly, the Ass Italiane get nothing as they are below a national 0.4%, being present only here, thus the +1 seat goes to Prodi?

So Prodi wins all overseas senatorial seats, which makes him win the senate => was 154 vs 155 before, now becomes 160 vs 155.

Since Prodi also wins la Camera, it's a good day after all.

Morality: Italians abroad are massively against Berlusconi, is it because they do not watch Raï TV?

This projects a distribution of seats
4 more for Prodi, 1 more for Berlusconi, 1 for ASS Italini Sud America.

If presents results hold... we win by two senators (taking out the crazy  and the the Sudamerican 1)

A pleasure


I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

SO CAN WE CELEBRATE YET?

I got lost in minutae of election law last night.

Excellent, so we can then celebrate!!!!

La vittoria e nostra!!!!!

More exactly:
His political philosophy:

Luigi Pallaro, a businessman, is campaigning as a one-man party to represent the Italians of South America. "We can't afford the luxury of being in the Opposition," he says. In other words: "Elect me and I'll join the winners."

So, Colman, go out and celebrate...

But it will be a wild ride for Prodi, if he ahngs on lifelong senators and pallaro.

An interesting name by the way: out of the blue, I can think of at least 5 "giochi di parola" with it. Good for the newspaper editors...

La répartie est dans l'escalier. Elle revient de suite.

Now it says:

"Il sesto eletto è un indipendente che avrebbe annunciato l'adesione all'Unione."

He now joined L'Unione! It's 159:156, and even if only 3 of the life-timers support L'Unione, it's 162:160 in the end!

_{*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

Maybe they caught him at a voting station.

We could make a snark comment about undelivered goods, but the contrary appears to be true.

Provenzano is the boss of bosses, at large for 43 years, responsible for hundreds of assassinations of judges, police, upright citizens as well as the brutal mafia wars of the seventies and eighties. Together with Totò Riina they launched a war against the state in the 80's and 90's. They were behind indiscriminate terror bombings throughout Italy. The judges Giovanni Falcone and Paolo Borsellino were massacred along with their escorts.

Known as "the tractor" Provenzano gained notoriety with the Viale Lazio massacre in 1969 (Palermo.) Under the boss Luciano Liggio the Corleonese launched an all-out war on the rival clans and after thousands of dead became the absolute rulers of the mafia, an empire that embraced three continents.

After the capture of Riina in 1993, Provenzano became the boss and adopted a far more subtle strategy of the silent, educated, white collar mafia that concentrated its extraordinary wealth in international finance. There has never been a mystery about the collusion of high finance, Masonry, and politicians with the mafia. It was the courageous work of isolated and incorruptible judges, reporters, politicians and cops that triggered the war against the state in the 80's. So long as civil society bothered with the mafia's military branch, everything was acceptable.

The capture of Provenzano the day after the elections is highly symbolic. It means that he was no longer protected by his allies. It means that the forces of law had managed to weed out the informants and spies in their midst.

The most recent case is the story of Kissy-kiss Cuffaro, the president of Sicily, now on trial for external support of the mafia and Rightwing candidate for the upcoming presidential elections in Sicily. His entire entourage has been incriminated for revealing the progress of the investigations against the mafia with the crime of association with the mafia.

Two alleged mafia bosses, Doctor Giuseppe Guttadauro and Doctor Michele Aiello, were informed of the investigators' progress throughout. Yet what was a mystery is how Cuffaro's entourage learnt of the investigations. It now appears that it is part of the great wire-taping scandal that directly implicates Pollari's Sismi not only in spying on the Procura of Palermo but also on the Procura of Milan in the David Mill's bribery case.

The alleged private use of the Italian Secret Services by the Berlusconi entourage to keep abreast of investigations that involve him and his clique is only at the first stage.

The capture of Provenzano sends a strong message to those parties and their leaders that they are not invulnerable despite their popular base.

Thanks!

Myself, I thank kcurie for the data and double-checking, de Gondi for the explanations, Ritter for the athmosphere and for keeping hope alive, and whoever I forgot for participating!

_{*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

Yes, thanks for all your efforts.

Yes, CdL did ask for a recount, now that is the only cliffhanger issue.

_{*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

This is from the NYT :

But the nation's president, Carlo Azeglio Ciampi, sent a message that he would like these bitterly contested elections whose results were unclear throughout the night over and certain. He issued a statement saying that the voting was "orderly and correct."

Quote: "Other members of Mr Berlusconi's centre-right ruling bloc appeared angry..."

Indeed.

Early this morning a group of furious Members of Parliament had to be stopped from going to Minister Tremonti's house to beat him up. They claim that he is responsible for their defeat because on his initiative Italians residing abroad were given the right to vote.


"The USA appears destined by fate to plague America with misery in the name of liberty." Simon Bolivar, Caracas, 1819

I think soon we'll have the final result (save for recounts).

Counting finished in North America: 1-1 L'Unione and Forza Italia representative for House, 1 senator for Senate elected.

In the rest-of-the-world region, only 3 out of 113 districts haven't yet reported Senate and 1 hasn't reported House.

In South America, it's 11 resp. 9 out of 204.

In Europe, 12 resp. 10 out of 479.

_{*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.}