Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.

Hypothetical question.

by Colman Thu Apr 13th, 2006 at 06:22:14 AM EST

bumped by Jerome. Let's all give it more effort, please...

Pretend that you are setting up a think tank to push against the conventional wisdom in a more formal way. Assume that the aim was to present positive policy proposals and alternative views to the conventional wisdom in the form of working papers derived from articles and discussions on blogs like European Tribune and to put in place a structure for communicating with the press.

What would you write as the statement of principles?

Here's my attempt:

The members of XXXXX reject the conventional wisdom of neo-liberalism.

We believe in a Europe based on fairness, freedom and sustainability, judged first on how we treat the weakest members of our community. We believe all our citizens deserve equal protection under the law and equal rights.

We believe that a redistributive welfare system, protection of workers and universal health-care are essential to provide the economic security required to run a modern technological economy. We also believe that minimally regulated markets are essential.

We believe that business fares better under left-wing policies and that the policies of neo-liberalism are bad for business in the medium run.

What have I missed?


Display:
A statement of principles for the real world, not a utopia you'd like to get to.

All hypothetical of course.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Apr 12th, 2006 at 10:21:54 AM EST
And here's that thread that veered way off course...
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Apr 12th, 2006 at 10:26:56 AM EST
Colman, pretty good exercise in wordsmithing.,

My edits.
We also believe that properly regulated markets are essential (to ???).
If you are "minimal", you are already conceding that "regulation is bad". And essential to what, btw? I'd say to "efficient capitalism" but it lacks a good ring so if you find a better way to convey that capitalism left to its own device doesn't work, you are more than welcome.

the conventional wisdom of neo-liberalism ... under left-wing policies ... that the policies of neo-liberalism are ...
"Left-wing" smacks too much of "leftism" (I know, it's unfair) and I'm not really left-wing so... How to call that ? "Social-democracy" ? Narhhh, too narrow. Well, something.

"neo-liberalism" is too euro-centric. Liberalism is a good thing on the other side of the Big Pond. I'd propose "laissez-faire ideology"

And I'd like to throw in the ring Roosevelt's concept of "freedom from want, freedom from fear" that underlaid his social programs. They are as current as ever and non-socialist.
by Francois in Paris on Wed Apr 12th, 2006 at 10:43:42 AM EST
I run from any banners that declare political attitudes. I think they have ALL failed.

What we neeed is some principals that derive - like Roosevelt's - from much more basic analyses of the human condition, and seek more encompassing (global, if you will ;.)) answers.

So I would say:

  1. We reject conventional wisdom
  2. A la Colman
  3. edited as per Francois
  4. Business is just plumbing. It's not an end but a means.
  5. Culture is one of the highest attainments of society
  6. Culture is founded on education

But then I'm a hopeless Utopian...


You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Apr 12th, 2006 at 11:01:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"hopeless Utopian" maybe, but I like the way you look for first principles.

Point 4 is important. We must demystify "business". How many voices do we hear that sing business as the highest form and the ultimate aim of human activity?

5 & 6 could probably be conflated, and to them be added that education and access to culture are essential preconditions of civic and political equality... and from them proceed scientific and technical progress and innovation.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Apr 13th, 2006 at 02:09:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, I couldn't really find a short snappy way of conflating culture and education, since one can't directly link the two words without further definition.

I see culture as a celebration of human creativity, which is possible without formal education in societies with other types of wisdom running through them. I'm thinking here of the highly sophisticated aboriginal systems destroyed by religious missionaries over the last 200 years or so. And of course education is no guarantee of social responsibility if that is not part of the curriculum.

And the one other important point that Colman left out is 'the pursuit of happiness'. What we need is a robust definition of happiness.

The only definition or qualification of happiness that I have been able to come up with is that it cannot be attained if it causes unhappiness elsewhere.

We all know what it feels like to be happy, and it is usually the result of love (in its broadest sense).

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Apr 13th, 2006 at 02:33:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not sure, for the purposes of this exercise, that we absolutely must get into the definition of terms (though, heh heh, nothing should go into the statement of principles that has not been hashed out and can therefore be readily defined on demand...)

My sense of education is broad : schooling and higher ed, certainly, but lifelong education and training too, and access to educational facilities, of which the biggest and brightest is Internet (another reason for fighting corporate attacks on net and open-source freedom), but importantly include books (dead tree or whatever they may become), and there too a fight is necessary as the post-WWII trend towards more popular, mass use of books has been reversed by precisely the kind of segmented, marketising, aim-for-20%-or-more-margin corporate stranglehold the transnationals would like to impose on Internet.

One sense of culture for me is the sum of all learned behaviours; but of course there's a narrower sense that concerns the arts and necessarily, the imagination and creativity. It's for that reason that I added the point about innovation : a society that doesn't work on education and culture will lose its creative imagination, its power of discovery, its capacity for invention and innovation. A plutocracy with computers is a dinosaur in comparison.

Happiness is more complicated, and I'm realizing Colman gave us a remit to discuss a thonk-tink whose job was to oppose conventional wisdom rather than propose, so maybe I'll stop there.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Apr 13th, 2006 at 03:58:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The great change that has taken place over the last 50 years is globalization - leading to transnational companies with as much power as minor nations - but with no responsibilities.

Business, pre-globalization, was usually rooted in the geographic community where it was based. It was subject to the laws of that location and depended on the local workforce - so business was living in a symbiotic relationship with the community.

Those relationships have been destroyed by globalization, with workforces becoming simply resources.

International business is fundamentally at odds with democracy.

What we may need is the UB - a United Nations of Business.


You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Apr 13th, 2006 at 02:44:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Those relationships have been destroyed by globalization, with workforces becoming simply resources.

Absolutely agree -- this is central, essential. Workers have become a form of merchandise.

And that, along with the loss of power of representational institutions compared to transnational corporations, has degraded and continues to degrade democracy.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Apr 13th, 2006 at 04:03:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As someone just said on the radio - "that 'global business' is a return to feudalism"

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Apr 13th, 2006 at 05:42:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I agree that a statement of principles of this kind should steer away from "political" language which would allow it to be labelled in an instant. So, no "left-wing" or any use of "left, right". Also agree on "liberal" which is a constant source of confusion.

I don't agree OTOH with your suggestion of Roosevelt's freedoms, not because they are not applicable (I think they are) but because they are not really (as you say) current... They're well known and from the past. "What are these people on about? Pfff... Roosevelt's freedoms again..."

We need something that makes people sit up and think : "Hey, this looks different!" So, if FDR's freedoms were used, they would need rethinking and working into the text in a new way.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Apr 13th, 2006 at 02:48:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
no reference to Roosevelt. Use it as a new concept, like freedom from XXX and then of course find a narrative to explain it.

So it is good because it is soemthing new to build on. It is true that we would need to develop a narrative for it.

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Thu Apr 13th, 2006 at 08:32:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We need two manifetos. And for each manifesto we need key concepts, and for each concept we need a narrative, a history we can explain in TV... better two or three examples of narrative.
Colman give a great first try. I think we should divide in two. One using their language , antoher ours.

Markets language for using their language. FDR words for ours.

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Thu Apr 13th, 2006 at 08:30:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You are using a language of faith. I believe. Don;t be so wishy washy.. (-:

IMHO it would be better to say:
Europe has to be based on...

even
Europe must be...

The: We also believe that minimally regulated markets are essential.
is the most contentious for me.
Again, I would approach this from the other side.
Markets that involve the common interests need regulation.
Political will expresses itself through regulation, sustainance and development politics.

Business fares better under let of centre politics.  Neo liberalism is gauged towards the short-term and has proven to result be overall negative for business and society.

by PeWi on Wed Apr 12th, 2006 at 10:48:00 AM EST
The market bit is definitely the worst.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Apr 12th, 2006 at 10:50:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But you have done a great job so far, Colman. Me just barging in at the last minute and demanding change - no disrespect meant.
by PeWi on Wed Apr 12th, 2006 at 10:57:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Rather than "properly regulated", perhaps "correctly" or "accurately" regulated markets? (Meaning, we say markets should be regulated, and it is technically possible to do this in an optimal fashion?)

On a point of overall style, I agree with PeWi that the "We believe" formula is a bit naff -- it's conventional and weak where we need to convey a sense of freshness and urgency. Perhaps (just a suggestion) it might be possible to use this framework :

"The planks of our platform are :

1, 2, etc"

using language like "needs", "calls for", "requires", rather than the imperatives PeWi suggests.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Apr 13th, 2006 at 02:27:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"Markets must be appropriately regulated to ensure that they serve the needs and aims of society."
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Apr 13th, 2006 at 06:50:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I suppose I have a tendency to purple prose, but I think this statement should also advert to specific needs, and if possible to a moral basis as well.

"We must prevent large-scale corporate greed from ever again amassing obscene profits at the expense of the jobs and livelihoods of ordinary citizens."

This probably could be tightened up, but it presses buttons.

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Thu Apr 13th, 2006 at 07:14:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We believe that a redistributive welfare system, protection of workers and universal health-care are essential to provide the economic security required to run a modern technological economy. We also believe that minimally regulated markets are essential.

I think you'll find that you have to declare a concept of regulated balance between these two ideals as many on the right and left feel they are incompatible.

Also, as America is discovering, in a minimally regulated market, largest monopolist corporations control an unregulated competitive environment to its own advantage. You need greater Govt regulation to ensure markets remain fair, especially where capital infrastructure is involved.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Apr 12th, 2006 at 10:48:15 AM EST
I agree. The "minimally regulated markets" bit confuses me especially since the suggestions by Francois and PeWi rather change the meaning.
by Wolke on Wed Apr 12th, 2006 at 01:58:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sorry, but I don't think this is insidious enough.

My take on it is that something like this needs to look very similar to NeoLib Speak - so it's not obvious that the message and values are fundamentally different until someone looks closely. This gives a double whammy effect by appropriating all of the media authority of the neolib line while subverting its message.

Being overtly against the neolibs and overtly for good, decent things may not be enough. The consensus needs to be taken apart by stealth from the inside, not attacked from the outside. Overt outside attacks are always too easy to spin and dismiss. But something that looks like someone saying the usual things but in fact saying something very different may be more effective.

(Yes, I do have a plan of sorts. When I have time I'll mail some ideas to you and Jerome.)

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Apr 12th, 2006 at 10:49:43 AM EST
What do you suggest?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Apr 12th, 2006 at 10:53:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We believe that business fares better under left-wing policies

Left-wing is a (yes) red flag in politics, stirring up old sterotypes in people's minds. At least part of this statement might be expressed more insidiously and at greater length as:

"We believe that business as a whole fares better when society as a whole ensures the well-being of its citizens through universal education, healthcare, and guarantees of decent living conditions."

An attempt to express another facet:

"We believe that business as a whole does its best when the economy as a whole does best. This means resisting special benefits to special business interests, and instead providing a framework of law and regulation in which business costs and revenues reflect overall societal costs and benefits."

And further:

"We believe that business as a whole does best when diversity, creativity, and dynamism are not stifled by over-dominant corporations, and that the best response to the deadening effects of corporate gigantism is not to restrain the growth of business activities, but instead to restore flexibility and competition by de-merging the activities of the largest businesses into corporations under separate leadership."

The latter point -- that splitting the largest businesses is a market-friendly option, tending to create rather than destroy overall shareholder value in the economy -- is, I think, worth special attention.


Words and ideas I offer here may be used freely and without attribution.

by technopolitical on Wed Apr 12th, 2006 at 07:14:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So basically, we move from a statement of principles to a mission statement that uses the neolib frame:

European (American, world) AAAAA is being throttled in the iron group of rigid, sclerotic and outdated BBBBB. By eliminating their antiquated and dangerously misguided policies we can free Europe (America, the world) to more CCCCC and DDDDD - to the greater benefit of us all.

We've all heard the version with the neocon veriables. We just need to insert our own. But we need to find something impressively scary for BBBBB.

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Wed Apr 12th, 2006 at 12:56:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"iron group" indeed. Should read "iron grip".

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman
by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Wed Apr 12th, 2006 at 02:25:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I see that my third point above, addressing corporate gigantism, matches your template rather well.

Words and ideas I offer here may be used freely and without attribution.
by technopolitical on Wed Apr 12th, 2006 at 07:15:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's a possible approach but one too devious for me. If you were doing this you'd hope that other people would also be carrying out similar efforts from different angles: savage, snarky attack dogs (Locustwatch.org), insidious infiltrators (RadicalMarketReform.org) and so on. You'd also hope for similar creatures at the national level.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Apr 13th, 2006 at 07:08:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
My think-tank would focus on economics as that is where the neo-libs focus.  And I would use their own words against them, as much as possible, to piggy-back on the money they spend and to subvert, as much as possible, their message -- per ThatBritGuy.

First Hack:

The XXXXXXXX exists to:

  •  Promote Public and Private partnerships across the European Union by allying the dynamism of the Public Sector with the broad reach of the Public Sector such that both the individual and societial good is enhanced.

  •  Promote economic development through such partnerships so the benefits of technological, scientific, and market innovations are 'trickled-down,' redistributed, through the whole of society.

  •  Promote the economic betterment of the countries of the European Union by using all avenues of funding for economic development: Public, Private, and Public and Private partnerships.


She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Wed Apr 12th, 2006 at 11:44:32 AM EST
Public and Private partnerships
Veto!

I don't want to hear about partnerships between public and private sectors, or at least, you need to seriously qualify it. It's way too often a codeword for confusion of responsibilities, corruption, privatization of profits and leaving Joe Random Taxpayer foot the bill when things go sour. Mixing public and private money or even public missions and private money, what we call "l'économie mixte" in France, is a recipe for disaster. If you have something else in mind, let me know but from what I know of those "partnerships", I pull my gun every time I hear the word.

I want the state to do its job (a hell lot more than police, justice and army, in my view), to do it well and to be solvent enough to pay its bill.

As for the state's relations with the private sector, it's called "regulation, taxation and subsidies". And sorry if it doesn't sound sexy, but at least, it makes things clear.
by Francois in Paris on Wed Apr 12th, 2006 at 04:39:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not sure you haven't tried to be so subtly subversive you're misunderstood...
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Apr 13th, 2006 at 01:53:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Then you need to get together with ThatBritGuy and work on RadicalMarketReform.eu!
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Apr 13th, 2006 at 07:10:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If I were left wing...

I'd say bag "reject the conventional wisdom".  Don't define yourself in opposition to something, it's defensive and may even appear whiny especially if it's the first thing you say.

I like the second sentence except for the term sustainability. It's "risqué" because it's a fashionable buzzword which hasn't passed the test of time.  Even though the concept will still be present in ten years and beyond, the word may be as outmoded as an 80's haircut before you know it.  Your mission statement has to be bold and lasting, not something you have to tweak every few years.

What's a left-wing policy? It sounds scary to me: nationalize random private assets? Tax rich people back to the Stone Age?  I'm exaggerating (slightly :-) ) but seriously, why should you give undefined left-wing policies an a priori seal of approval?  As a think tank, you're ideologically pure, focused and on message: redistribution in order to get good health-care and protection for the weak.  You're not a cheer leader for anything left of center.  You remain credible if you're prepared to smack down the left-wing wacko when he deserves it.

Also, it sounds like you're conceding "minimally regulated markets" to the neo-libs.  I wouldn't, it's about the people not the mechanisms.  Whatever works for the ordinary guy is the ticket.  What's a market?

Lose the focus and you play into the right's hands: the left is whiny and confused with a laundry list of complaints and micro-managing fixes for anything and everything from saving whales to minimum wages.

Look at the libertarian right:

Cato's Mission
The Cato Institute seeks to broaden the parameters of public policy debate to allow consideration of the traditional American principles of limited government, individual liberty, free markets and peace. Toward that goal, the Institute strives to achieve greater involvement of the intelligent, concerned lay public in questions of policy and the proper role of government.

Notice how there's nothing very specific policywise yet you know exactly where they're coming from.

Cheers, and good luck.

signed: the right wing

by Guillaume on Wed Apr 12th, 2006 at 12:00:29 PM EST
Thanks Guillaume, your comments make a lot of sense.
Let me give it a try


We believe in a Europe based on fairness, freedom and sustainability, judged first on how we treat the weakest members of our community. We believe all our citizens deserve equal protection under the law and equal rights.

Dump the first sentence. This is about us, not them.

We believe in a Europe based on fairness, freedom and upholding the common good. A community should be judged first by how it treats its weakest members.


We believe that a redistributive welfare system, protection of workers and universal health-care are essential to provide the economic security required to run a modern technological economy. We also believe that minimally regulated markets are essential.

We believe that business fares better under left-wing policies and that the policies of neo-liberalism are bad for business in the medium run.

We believe that a redistributive welfare system, protection of workers and universal health-care are essential to provide the economic security required to run a modern technological economy.

We also believe that properly regulated markets are essential, and that it is up to public authorities, not corporations, to define economic and social policy. We note that business fares better in the medium run when social market policies are enacted, but we remember that the health of a country is not measured only by GDP or profit numbers.

(One more paragraph on non-economic stuff?)

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Apr 12th, 2006 at 06:22:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So how about this?

We believe in a  Europe based on fairness, freedom and upholding the common good. The European community must be judged first by how it treats its weakest members.

A re-distributive welfare system, protection of workers and respect for the environment are essential to provide the economic security required to maintain and grow a modern technological economy in for us and for our children.

Appropriately regulated markets are also essential. It is up to democratically appointed public authorities, not corporations, to define economic and social policy. Business fares better in the medium and long run when social market policies are enacted though we remember that the health of an economy is not measured solely by GDP or corporate profits.

I took out universal health care because it's in place in Europe anyway and I I don't want to make it a matter of debate and I want to get sustainability in there in some guise. I think the environment bit needs work.

I took out the "We believes..." though I'm half minded to put them back in.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Apr 13th, 2006 at 07:20:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Leave them out. They only undermine the strength of your statements.

Also, in the 2nd graph I would suggest "working people" instead of workers, and "sustain" instead of "maintain".

Otherwise I think the first 2 paragraphs are good - very balanced and reasonable in tone.

In the 3rd graph, perhaps the 1st sentence could read "Appropriately regulated markets are essential to ensure a level playing field". Also, maybe change "democratically appointed" to "... legitimated" ("appointed" sounds a little elite) and "fares better" to "thrives"?

That's my €0.02 of nitpicking for now. :)

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Thu Apr 13th, 2006 at 07:54:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"sustain" - just the word I was looking for.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Apr 13th, 2006 at 08:11:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
the health of an economy is not measured solely by GDP or corporate profits

... would make a strong topic sentence for the 3rd graph.

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Thu Apr 13th, 2006 at 08:18:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The problem with this, to my eye, it that it applies very well to the America of today.

"We believe that a redistributive welfare system,"
Check, we've got that with our progressive income tax.

"protection of workers"
Check, got that with our labor laws, minimum wage, worker's accident compensation, etc.

"universal health-care"
Check, got that, with our employment-based medical insurance and emergency room coverage for the indigent.

"properly regulated markets"
Chekc, got that, just look at the FCC, the FAA, the ICC, etc. Thousands of regulatory agencies.

"the health of a country is not measured only by GDP or profit numbers."
Check, we've got low unemployment, supermarkets full of exotic food, pretty clean air...

----

This is all too moderate. It's an Apple-Pie-And-Motherhood expression of universal human values, and you're assuming that the reader shares your political or economic goals. The result is a proposal that does not "cut to the chase," but instead leads to an argument about degree: "How progressive should the income tax rate be?" "What should the minimum wage be?"

Political messages that make an impact are shorter and more direct:

  • "When guns are illegal, only criminals will have guns."
  • "State ownership of the means of production."
  • "Abortion is murder."
  • "Equal rights for blacks."
  • "Let them eat cake."
  • "Union made."

Upon such slogans are political movements built...or destroyed.
by asdf on Thu Apr 13th, 2006 at 09:00:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"universal health-care"
Check, got that, with our employment-based medical insurance and emergency room coverage for the indigent.

this is sarcasm, right?

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Thu Apr 13th, 2006 at 09:16:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nope. I have a relative who lives in poverty with four kids and a barely-employed husband. They get care from the state (Massachusetts) to cover routine child health care (immunizations, checkups), adult care, and, obviously, emergency care.

There are a lot of myths about the health care system as it exists in practise in the U.S.

However, this is a distraction from the real discussion here...

by asdf on Thu Apr 13th, 2006 at 11:14:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, there are a lot of variances from state to state too. I can point at anecdotes of people I've known outside of Massachusetts whose health care experiences are markedly different.

Propounding a different, but equally mythical vision of how things are working is not really all that constructive.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Apr 14th, 2006 at 03:40:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And I can point out anecdotes about people who have been badly served by single payer health systems. It is a very complicated discussion, and I was not wanting to get into it at this point.
by asdf on Fri Apr 14th, 2006 at 08:24:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
'sustainability' may have gone out of fashion as a word, but the concept is still only too novel to the ignorant majority.

fashion is for shallow people anyway, who cares about what they think?

besides, fashions come and go, 'sustainability' needs to be permanently woven into the public awareness, foreverandeveramen!

we can't afford 'fashionable' solutions, with their implicit ephemerality, indeed we need to emphasise policy creation is way, way too serious a matter for shallow thinking of any type....what's next, social policy by armani?

fashion implies a throwaway culture, we need to start 'playing for keeps' if we want to ensure quality of life for the maximum number of souls on this continent and beyond.

resource capitalism as concept...nature conservationism as philosophy, liberality as mindset, these are eternal, perennial verities, imo.

awareness of limited resources...no more blank cheques....

elegance of wise husbandry....SOCIALLY CONSCIOUS capitalism, nurturing the environment as we would a family member...for our future families...there is no downside to thinking this way.

 weed out opposition to these concepts by revealing the shortfalls of a short-term mindset, and the greedy, selfish agendas of those who would argue against them.

undo the orwellian hijacking of language by deprogramming people: sufficient to mantra-ise RESPECT and RESPONSIBILITY, over and over till it sinks into the poor, brainwashed skulls of those who don't know better.

start very early to inculcate values while children are still in the age of wonder...education in the widest possible sense.

accentuate continuity, consistency, rationality....

take back the language, as jerome is doing brilliantly with his deconstruction diaries.

take a hard look at 'fortress europe' and immigration, rigorously secularise government, while allowing maximum freedom of worship.

teach eco-morality....what good is god if we are living in the rubble of wasted resources and the detritus of a junk-enslaved landfill culture?

well done colman!

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Apr 12th, 2006 at 02:59:28 PM EST
I will try to sum up other comments and ideas.

First the approach has to be a double approach. You have to attack their symbolic universe using their symbolic universe and your own symbolic universe.. this is is the only way.

So there MUST BE 2 proposals completely different. One with our own universe, one with them. Some people here argue that it is better not to mix, other that one is better than the other. My take is that both are necessary and that mixing/ not mixing is not as important as the famous "you know where they are coming from".

About their universe.. it is very easy .. you have to turn the table aorund. "The world economies are really stagnant , we need to improve efficency and increase the dyanmics of the eocnomy.. it is therefore vital to INCREASE the minimal wage..."

You sould take care not to use claims that they could dismiss on their own terms as stupid or irrational...so I would go for minimal wage and improve the environment of investment PROTECTING SMALL COMANIES AGAINST BIG COMAPNIES..

More careful thought is needed to locate the flaws of their universe...minimal wage and small/big companies would be my winners. OK.. this goes for their symbolic universe.. Then we need ours.

Unfortuantely the sentences of Colman are a very good print only when you have the unvierse stablished behind. So sustainibility is actually excellent, it could be demode in the future; the KEY is that it has SYMBOLIC STRUCURE now.. when it becomes de mode change it, but not now...

The real problem is then to stablish the symbolism behind the ideas, some examples:

Common resourcs: general idea of common good badly needed for the confidence of the society. Stress again and againa that no common resource means everybody is worst.

responsability: Stress again and again that companies should take responsability ..again and again.. becasue we all know that if they do not...we would need someone taking care of it.
Fair taxes: symbolism of rich peole not paying taxes and destroying the middle class
MIddle class promotion: use the symbolism of the middle class as something required for democracy as a way to STAND UP  for them in minimum wages and fair-competitive wage system.

Notice that the policies are not the center but they come natrually from it. Kos introduced these general ideas without really knowing anything about antrhopology...but this is well stablished in antrhopology.. when you build the universe you build from the details to the general picutre and then back to new details. The details you focus at the end can be very different than the beginning...SO you start by middle class, generate the symbolism .. and from there the strong CONCEPT.. and from there the concrete policy you would like to implement...and then let us fight with both unvierses having the same solution even when it is only a minority in their universe defending it (of course ourselves). Just like the right and big elite does, they win because they have their universe and use our unvierse to obtain the same result.

...and on and on.. each strong idea must come with a universe, a narrative behind (forget the frames, frames is for debate not for political universes).. so you first explain all your narrative .. and then you conclude.. over and over again.. in big capital letters wiht a CONCEPT. Do it in calls , talking in TV, everywhere... firs the narrative .. then the key sentence...and if we keep strong enough we end  beating them because now the policies can be defended naturally. Our "three lines" became a manifesto in itself,a s Colman wants....and they are "basically advocating" the same thing.

So the first paragraph of Colman goes for our narrative and it needs to be expanded. The second and third paragraph go for their universe...and we would need to check if they are the most effective to attack.

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Wed Apr 12th, 2006 at 05:06:27 PM EST
kc, I don't want to presume on your time, but there are heaps of really important things in your comment that it would be (imo) useful to discuss in a separate diary, if you could develop your thoughts a bit more in writing one.

Meanwhile, have a hallelujah 4.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Apr 13th, 2006 at 04:26:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not sure it needs to be stated within this form, but I do think something needs to be said about the way in which knowledge about economic principles and state policy gets produced.  Having watched events in Germany up to last year's election very closely, I think it was absolutely central to the process of neo-liberalization that a dominant account of state policy reform surfaced in the form of the "Hartz reforms" very early in the process.  In Italy, note that we also have labor reform laws being named after an economist (Marco Biagi), albeit in response to that person's murder.

There needs to be a democratization of the way in which government is practiced.  Citizen involvement in budget-making on the local level is a start, for example.  But policy discussions on the national level is where involvement matters the most.  Experts invariably formulate their opinions to correspond to the interests of hegemonic classes and groups, and we should refuse on principle any axiomatic statements about policy which don't have the involvement of a wider audience.

...so I guess something along these lines should belong in the preamble to your statement of principles, preambles of course being a venerable tradition in any sort of formal political speech, helping to frame the very formulation of principles and the general orientation of readers and writers alike.

by KB on Wed Apr 12th, 2006 at 06:23:20 PM EST
It seems to me that you have to have an underlying theoretical basis for your claims. Which of the conventional hypotheses of economics do you agree with and with which do you disagree? Is supply and demand to be changed? Is the desire for material goods to be modified?

Without such a foundation, you can claim anything you want, but won't get far...

by asdf on Wed Apr 12th, 2006 at 11:01:01 PM EST
For practical purposes the free-marketeers don't have such a basis. They just pretend they do.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Apr 13th, 2006 at 02:26:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not sure we disagree with any of the hypotheses of real economics. It's the economic propagandists that we disagree with.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Apr 13th, 2006 at 02:27:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We might disagree with the applicability of over-simplified models when their assumptions don't hold.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Apr 13th, 2006 at 02:29:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I am preparing a diary about how I think we should approahc this issue.

Someone would have to join all the pieces.

A plaasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Thu Apr 13th, 2006 at 08:03:58 AM EST
I tried my hand at something like this last year. It's the top item on my web site, if you wish to see it.

Everyone basically has the same goals (or ideals, if you like). Everyone is for fairness, justice, economic well-being, etc. The problem is how to achieve them. This breaks down into two basic camps. Those who think that some variation of the marketplace, or self interest (see Ayn Rand, for example) can solve the problems, and those who see the need for some sort of central authority to either plan or referee.

Neither group (who are both basically utopians) manages to address the central issue: might makes right. Those with economic, political or military power get to call the shots, and usually do so in a way that benefits their group. Democracy was supposed to solve this problem. The idea being that the "people" would not support a government which was performing against the self interests of the majority. But, as we have seen this hasn't worked as well as desired.

Some democracies have slipped into dictatorships (pre-war Italy and Germany, for example). Some have been nominal democracies where the social structure is such that a small elite controls the electoral process (most banana republics). And, currently, we have the Western democracies which seem not to be acting on behalf of the majority of their citizens even though there are contested elections.

The last defect with democracy is that the majority can vote for something which is detrimental to the planet in favor of short-term, or local, gains. A good example is exurban sprawl where land owners and developers put in governments that will support their expansionist plans at the expense of the environment and of future generations.

The western world is still based upon a model which consumes an unsustainable level of Nature's Bounty. We are not willing to discuss a society where we make do with less, especially while correcting our own imbalances. The mantra still is that growth (or smart growth, or sustainable growth) will solve things.

So, I say we concentrate on how to overcome the objections to change that the powerful put in the way of new initiatives and assume we know what our goals or ideals are.

Policies not Politics
---- Daily Landscape

by rdf (robert.feinman@gmail.com) on Fri Apr 14th, 2006 at 10:48:35 AM EST


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