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Some thoughts on skinhead violence in .DE

by name Tue Apr 25th, 2006 at 12:59:20 PM EST

This is about skins in general, but also about the disgusting yet singular - because of the accompanying activity - incident which took place last week, in which a guy from Ethiopia was beaten into coma by a couple of assholes.

Now let me share my thoughts about this, and perhaps piss of Jerome (hello) in the process.


As probably pretty much everybody here knows, last week an engineer originary from Ethiopia was beaten into coma in Germany. The incident is deplorable, but what happened around this incident gave me some thoughts.

First, skins and their violent exploits are business-as-usual in .DE and for the most part nobody really cares, much less the police. So they beat yet another Auslaender / Neger / whatever into hospital ? Tough luck and stay away from the bad parts of town could be a short resume of the stance of most Germans before the phenomenon. But this time it was dfferent. Lets see.

Why is this incident so interesting to the MSM that they keep it on the frontpage after one week ?

Why does the CDU send some blonde bimbo (male specimen) before TV to state that the incident had nothing to do with racism ? (apart from the fact that CDU/CSU pols mostly think with their arse).

Why is this incident so important that Kai Nehm himself gets involved ? And how come they show clips on TV showing some poor slobs with bags over their heads being transported around in helicopters ?

I mean, WTF ? Violent racist incidents are probably everyday stuff for police, not only in Germany, stuff which the local cops and the Bezirksgericht take care of. But Kai Nehm himself ?

Last but not least, today a zionist, Anetta Kahane, went before N-TV to pull a boo-hoo-hoo. Since when do they even so much as care for black people ?

The victim: could it be that he is not a "just" a "German of Ethiopian origin" but in reality a Falasha ? Falashas are Ethiopians who converted to Judaism, and have been "imported" to Palestine in large quantities. Because of their skin color they are generally held in contempt and treated like shit in Israel, their status there is just a notch above that of Palestinians. If the poor guy was just a "normal" black he would never have gotten all the attention. This guy will serve as another conspicuous example of how bad jews are treated. In any case, I hope he'll recover.

Regarding the skinheads, I find it interesting that the German (and Austrian) authorities have never gotten the phenomenon under control. To contrast, the 'lefty' scene of radical thinkers and bigmouthes with little inclination towards violence was pretty much razed to the ground in the 1990's for far less and often on contrived accusations.

It is as if they are there because somebody wants them skinheads to exist, to look ugly, to do disgraceful things. Many of the skins i've seen here and in Munich seem to have undergone military training of the sort you only get in .mil world (and not during normal military service), and in order to get access to .mil world  the people in charge at .mil must have a reason to let them in. If .mil gives the skins access to training it is because there is a political interest that they get it. If I am correct in my assumptions/suspicions: why ?

Also, regarding skins, they hang together in semi-formal groups, they have hierarchies, resources, their own sub-culture, ... All this needs money. Skins AFAIK hang around in groups but dont work much. Who finances them ? Why ?

Skins are IMHO essentially terrorist groups who could easily be put out of business with existing legislation. Why does this not happen ?

As much as I deplore the legislation put out to "combat terrorism", the violent skins are a clear case for the use of such legislation. Why is this not happening ?

So: what kind of interest political interest could there be for the skins to get access to training and probably other resources from .mil and other govt institutions ? Why does the German govt tolerate and probably support paramilitary/terrorist groups on its territory ?

Any hints ? Does anybody here know more about skins ?

Display:
There is unfortunately no way to troll rate a diary.
by MarekNYC on Tue Apr 25th, 2006 at 03:00:30 PM EST
I'm sorry.  I don't get why this is a troll diary.  Can you explain?

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
by p------- on Tue Apr 25th, 2006 at 03:51:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's riddled with antisemitic insinuations.  A good while back in a debate 'name' made arguably antisemitic statements, and when a commenter called him on it replied that he isn't antisemitic, but then added that his views about Jews are those expressed on a certain site, linked to it, and it turned out to be clearly racist. If he didn't have that past then I'd be willing to consider the possibility that it was just incoherent stupidity rather than deliberate race baiting. Plus he makes it clear that he knows what he's doing - look at the first statement addressed to Jerome, who called him on this sort of crap in the past.
by MarekNYC on Tue Apr 25th, 2006 at 04:01:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I guess my original reading of it was that he was upset that skinheads were allowed to continue to do this sort of thing.  How is that anti-Semetic?  

I'm not even getting into the whole racism/anti-semitism thing here because these seem like problems you need to face on your own.  All I know is that any suggestion that it might exist at all in Europe is met here with the disproportional defensiveness.  Which is what I assumed the allusion to Jerome was about.  Anyway, I'm staying out of that.  We all have our own land mines, it seems...

I suppose I should do some background research on all posters before responding to them in the future?  

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Tue Apr 25th, 2006 at 04:27:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How is that anti-Semetic?

The gratuitous mention that a 'Zionist' [sic] condemned the attack, and the implication that it is something unusual. In actual fact the German Jewish community tends to be very outspoken about stuff like this - for some strange reason they feel strongly about neo-Nazis.

That's followed by vague insinuations that shadowy forces are behind the skinheads.  When someone with antisemitic opinions brings up Jews in connection with something where it isn't particularly relevant, then starts making weird suggestions about how there are secret forces behind the phenomenon under discussion then it is pretty clear what he is thinking.

I suppose I should do some background research on all posters before responding to them in the future?

No reason to do that. Fortunately racists are far and few between on this site, and one can generally assume that posters are not racist unless proven otherwise. In this case it is pretty clear (see the comment I posted right around the time you posted yours)

   

by MarekNYC on Tue Apr 25th, 2006 at 04:46:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You're normally, I find, an astute and clear-sighted reader, poemless. So how can you read this:

Last but not least, today a zionist, Anetta Kahane, went before N-TV to pull a boo-hoo-hoo. Since when do they even so much as care for black people ? (...)
If the poor guy was just a "normal" black he would never have gotten all the attention. This guy will serve as another conspicuous example of how bad jews are treated.

and not see it for the anti-semitic slur it is, beats me. But, as you say (conveniently shoving the responsibilty on to "you", meaning, supposedly, everyone else at ET who need to "face" these "problems"), you're not going into any of that "racism/antisemitism thing".

Read name's diary again. Read Ritter's response to its attack on Germany. Read name's references to Jews again, without preconceived ideas about ET and anti-semitism this time. And see why this was not a diary to recommend.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Apr 26th, 2006 at 01:38:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Just to make it clear, name said that he shares the views of an Israeli convert to Christianity and in the link provided we find stuf like:

The "liberal democracy and human rights" doctrine carried by the US marines even across Tigris and Oxus is a crypto-religion, an extreme heretical form of Judaised Christianity. Alexander Panarin, a modern (deceased) Russian political philosopher, noticed the anti-Christian character of the American doctrine: "The new American vision of de-contextualised Goods and their de-socialised Consumers is a heathen myth"; in his view the US doctrine represents a lapse into heathendom.

In my view, this new religion can be called Neo-Judaism; its adepts imitate classic Jewish attitudes; Jews often act as priests of the new faith and they are considered sacred by its adepts.

[...]

Still, there is a strong feeling of continuity between Palaeo-Judaism and the newer version. The Jewish state is the enactment of the paranoid Jewish fear and loathing of the stranger, while the Cabal policies of Pentagon are another manifestation of this same fear and loathing on global scale. The ideas for Neo-Judaism were formed by Jewish nationalist Leo Strauss, and promoted by Jewish writers of the New York Times. There is a project of supplying Neo-Judaism with exoteric rites by constructing a new Jerusalem Temple on the site of al Aqsa Mosque.

Neo-Judaism is the unofficial faith of the American Empire, and the war in the Middle East is indeed the Neo-Judaic Jihad. It is intuited by millions: Tom Friedman of the NY Times wrote that the Iraqis call the American invaders "Jews". Neo-Judaism is the cult of globalism, neo-liberalism, destruction of family and nature, anti-spiritual and anti-Christian.

This is also an anti-social cult of commodification, alienation and uprooting; fighting cohesive society, solidarity, tradition - in short, fighting the values upheld by the three great churches. As the church has lost its position in the West, the adepts of Neo-Judaism consider Western Christendom almost dead and fight it by bloodless means through their ADL, ACLU and other anti-Christian bodies. The Village Voice calls Bush `the Christian', The New York Times writes of priests' child abuse, Schwarzenegger demolishes a church in The Last Days, - this is the Western front of the Neo-Judaic Jihad.

http://www.israelshamir.net/English/Theopolitics.htm

The psychological portrait should be recognizable for the Ukrainians. Yes, the Civilization X presently at war with the rest of the world, is this eminently familiar and contemptible figure, a medieval Ukrainian Jew, a usurer, tax collector and alcohol pusher magnified by a factor of million. Its size impeded our recognition, for it is not easy to recognize an elephant-size louse.  TOP

Centuries ago, this figure ruled your steppes. After expulsion from France and Spain, the immigrant Jews settled in the Ukraine, suborned the timid native Jews and in short time strategically placed themselves between Polish landlords and Ukrainian peasants. They had lent money to landlords and peasants, pushed alcohol, managed the feudal estates, and eventually became the ultimate source of power. The Jews fought the Church, for the Church objected to their liberal trade in alcohol and usury. Until nowadays, the Jewish word kabala (receipt) is used in the Ukrainian language for `debt enslavement'.

The Civilization X pushes heroin instead of vodka, loans out billions instead of two rubles, sucks out the wealth of nations instead of meager livelihood of a peasant, fears nuclear weapons rather than moujik's axe, but it is the same complex of ideas and methods. In short, Civilization X is a dangerous and aggressive mutation of Jewish spirit grafted on the Anglo-American basis. Huntington was right - up to a point. The Conflict of Civilizations is unavoidable, but it is not a conflict of Christendom and Islam, but the conflict of Christians and Muslims versus Neo-Jews

http://www.israelshamir.net/English/civilx.htm

by MarekNYC on Tue Apr 25th, 2006 at 04:32:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Name writes: "First, skins and their violent exploits are business-as-usual in .DE and for the most part nobody really cares, much less the police."

Nobody really cares, much less the police? It is business as usual? Are you sure? Does it reflect your personal experience?

Just curious.

"Tough luck and stay away from the bad parts of town could be a short resume of the stance of most Germans before the phenomenon."

There are no no-go-areas in Germany.

"Why does the CDU send some blonde bimbo (male specimen) before TV to state that the incident had nothing to do with racism ?"

The CDU didn't say that.

"Why is this incident so important that Kai Nehm himself gets involved?"

Because the crime committed (attempted racist murder) undermines the basic order of the country.

"And how come they show clips on TV showing some poor slobs with bags over their heads being transported around in helicopters?

The alledged criminals are not "poor slobs" and had to be flown to the federal HQ of the attorny's bureau of investigation which is situated outside the State of Brandenburg.

"I mean, WTF ? Violent racist incidents are probably everyday stuff for police, not only in Germany, stuff which the local cops and the Bezirksgericht take care of."

Attempted racist murder is not 'every day stuff' in Germany.

"Regarding the skinheads, I find it interesting that the German (and Austrian) authorities have never gotten the phenomenon under control."

What do you mean by "under control"?

"To contrast, the 'lefty' scene of radical thinkers and bigmouthes with little inclination towards violence was pretty much razed to the ground in the 1990's for far less and often on contrived accusations."

Care to elaborate?

"If I am correct in my assumptions/suspicions: why?"

Your assumptions are wrong.

"Also, regarding skins, they hang together in semi-formal groups, they have hierarchies, resources, their own sub-culture, ... All this needs money. Skins AFAIK hang around in groups but dont work much. Who finances them ? Why ?"

Skins don't have money. All they get is free beer (on the house) at NPD meetings.

"Skins are IMHO essentially terrorist groups who could easily be put out of business with existing legislation. Why does this not happen?"

Terrorist organisations? How so?

"As much as I deplore the legislation put out to "combat terrorism", the violent skins are a clear case for the use of such legislation. Why is this not happening?"

Because they are not terrorist organisations?

"So: what kind of interest political interest could there be for the skins to get access to training and probably other resources from .mil and other govt institutions ? Why does the German govt tolerate and probably support paramilitary/terrorist groups on its territory?"

The German govtmt does not support terrorist groups.

"Does anybody here know more about skins?"

Yes I do. Feel free to ask me more questions.

"The USA appears destined by fate to plague America with misery in the name of liberty." Simon Bolivar, Caracas, 1819

by Ritter on Tue Apr 25th, 2006 at 03:04:11 PM EST
This is often the case in America as well.  The boys of Middle East descent were required to register with the govt after 9-11, terrorists or not, while skin heads continue to roam free.  Look at our response to the Oklahoma City bombing compared to that of 9-11...  MvVeigh may not have been a traditional Nazi, but he was extreme right wing militant.  A military man too...

My gov't. isn't overly concerned with stopping these people because they are a certain voting base and some people in our gov't even have a history of supporting these organizations...  Scary stuff.

I thought Germany would be a bit more vigilant than us, but who knows.  Usually easier to get support to go after people who represent the collective Other (who always present some percieved threat to traditional way of life whether economic or cultural)than the ostensibly entitled majority.  

Oh, and skin heads are not just after the Jews.  Anyone not white or Christian is on their list.

I don't know the details of the situation in Germany.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Tue Apr 25th, 2006 at 03:51:07 PM EST
What "boys of Middle East descent were required to register with the government after 9-11?" News to me...
by asdf on Tue Apr 25th, 2006 at 08:12:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I suggest you do some research on "Special Registration". It was introduced shortly after 9/11 and targeted muslim men. Then it was broadened.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Apr 26th, 2006 at 06:47:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This was for aliens, not U.S. citizens.
by asdf on Sun Apr 30th, 2006 at 06:09:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Who talked about citizens?

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Apr 30th, 2006 at 06:15:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, the diary was about German skinheads in Germany.
by asdf on Sun Apr 30th, 2006 at 06:44:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And poemless commented that the US government is more concerned with deporting middle-eastern students than with cracking down on homegrown militias and white supremacists, which parallels the claims made by the diarist about Germany and skin heads.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Apr 30th, 2006 at 07:57:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
To my detractors:

@Ritter

> Nobody really cares, much less the police? It is
> business as usual? Are you sure? Does it reflect your
> personal experience?

Skins are present pretty much everywhere in .DE, arguably they are a "product" of socioeconomic problems affecting the country. They are people with problems, they cause trouble. If somebody cared, they would stop organizing in the ways they organize. I simply believe in the adage that in politics nothing happens by chance.

> There are no no-go-areas in Germany.

For less-than-white people, obviously there are no-go areas.

> The CDU didn't say that.

Well, yesterday morning there was a handsom young blonde guy identified as "Mediensprecher/CDU" saying exactly that in N-TV.

> Because the crime committed (attempted racist murder)
> undermines the basic order of the country.

In the past there have been many racist incidents in .DE including violence, sometimes resulting in deaths, where the Generalbundesanwalt did not get involved, at least in the conspicuous way as with this incident. Just remember some years ago when a home for asylum seekers was burnt down resulting in the death of a whole family, where the neighborhood just stood watching in delight and the firesquad arrived hours late, or the case when tv showed how skins/neonazis were hunting "brownies" down the streets ? Did Nehm, or whoever had the job back then, get involved publicly ? I don't remember so, but please correct me if you know better.

> Attempted racist murder is not 'every day stuff' in Germany.

Racist attacks obviously are, murder or grave cases like this one may be an exception.

> What do you mean by "under control"?

That these people would stop organizing in the way they do, that the people who give the scene training, infrastructure, money, etc are also taken out. We have a rightist scene here in .AT too, but we do not have the proliferation of violent gangs.

> Your assumptions are wrong.

So ? Why exactly ?

> Skins don't have money. All they get is free beer (on
> the house) at NPD meetings.

Skins get far more than free beer. I have many friends here and in Germany who get free beer (or payed-for beer) and who do not organize in gangs to commit violence.

> Terrorist organisations? How so?

They are terrorists because they use violence and intimidation to pursue political ends (or what they hold for politics). When I checked last, that was the operational definition which "western" regimes to define what a "terrorist" is. Do you object to my including them in the category because they are white and not muslims ?

> The German govtmt does not support terrorist groups.

Yes, they do, as do most "western" govts do. They are just more discreet about it than the americans.
Example ? Look over at cryptome to understand how infiltrated the IRA was/is to realize that the brits could have wiped them out anytime they wanted, but chose instead to keep them going for decades. I conjecture the situation of the skin scene in Germany is analogous. You may also want to read Andreas von Bülow's first book re. the weird and unbecoming things govts do.

And, if you know so much about skins, please write something here for those of us who do not.

@MarekNYC

Israel Shamir is the name of that "jew converted to catholicism" you refer to. Apart from his bad taste in religion matters, what I say as a lapsed catholic, I mostly concur with him. What makes him so "anti-semitic" is that he a) dares to take a critical look at the crimes of his own, akin to the stance of germans (and more-or-less austrians) when looking at the nazi crimes, and b) because he calls for one state for all peoples on the land instead of the hare-brained "two-state solution". Hannah Arendt, who dared to look at how the zionist international sold out their own to the nazis and other betrayals, could not be labeled "anti-semitic" because she never renounced her faith, but instead she was ostracized and labeled a "self-hating-jew", her books were not translated to hebrew until the 1990s. Now, MarekNYC (and the rest of the bunch), if you call me an "anti-semite" with Shamir, please do so, but never do so without Shamir.

In any case I enjoy reading Shamir's texts and can only recommend reading them. FWIW he, along with some people i know personally, is on the "shit list" of an organization which recommends genocide and extermination of people they do not like, and that is enough for me to respect him (them).

Regarding Ms. Kahane putting foot on scene, it gave me to think. Jewish communities are not, so far I remember, (officially) outspoken about racist incidents in general, but they react strongly when one of their own is affected. This is why I conjecture that the victim of last weeks incident was a Falasha and not just an "ordinary" black person. The skins who assaulted him probably had no way of knowing this, though, and literally stepped into it.

Last but not least, I'm still interested in getting behind the raison d'etre of the skins.

by name (name@spammez_moi_sivouplait.org) on Wed Apr 26th, 2006 at 04:40:45 AM EST
Your Falasha story is pure "conjecture" as you say.

It allowed you, on false pretences, to bring Jews into this narrative for no other purpose than to smear them. And that you did so deliberately and provocatively is evidenced by your reference to pissing Jerome off.

I'll call you an anti-semite on this basis alone. Shamir or no Shamir.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Apr 26th, 2006 at 07:51:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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