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Who's dangerous? Russia or Europe's incoherent "reformers"?

by Jerome a Paris Mon May 8th, 2006 at 08:36:57 AM EST

I am pretty disappointed by Wolfgang Munchau's latest column about Gazprom as it is hopelessly incoherent and panders to the "new cold war" confrontational instincts of some of our leaders.

I'll deconstruct it in full below, but just a quote from his conclusion to show the extent of the problem:

This is why Russia has become increasingly dangerous to the rest of Europe. There is a clear case for an effective EU policy towards Russia. Unfortunately, the EU is currently in the middle of a relapse into economic patriotism.

No, Mr Munchau. European warmongers are the ones who are increasingly dangerous to the rest of Europe. Those who think that our current energy crisis can be solved by blaming Russia (or French "patriots") for it instead of taking the tough decisions to cut our (wasteful and unsustainable) energy consumption. Those who seem intent on conflict and confrontation everywhere rather than cooperation and diplomacy. Enough already.


EU needs a joint response

How should the world, and in particular the European Union, deal with an increasingly assertive Russia? The case for a joint response to Russian oil and gas imperialism is overwhelming. Yet Germany and others prefer to deal with Russia on a bilateral basis, often undermining the wider EU interest in the process. If handled badly, Russia’s energy diplomacy has the potential to divide the EU just as much the US-led war against Iraq did three years ago.

Russian oil & gas "imperialism"? Could you please make the case that there is any imperialism in Russian energy policy?

  • the Ukrainian spat is either a case of bringing market prices to a relationship previously marked by political factors, or a demonstration that Russia cares more about supplying Europe than about making any political point in Ukraine, as it restored deliveries to Ukraine as soon as Ukraine diverted any European-bound gas. In the first option, describing the imposition of market prices as imperialism is possible, but probably not what you have in mind... In the second option, Russia demonstrated once more its commitment to reliable deliveries of gas to Europe.

  • the current war of words between Gazprom and Blair/Barroso/Cheney (note the political affiliation of those involved, as it is pretty relevant) was launched by the West, not by Russia. Why is it that when Russia seeks other clients, it is "blackmailing" Europe, but when Europe is seeking to diversify supplies, it is somehow not theatening Russia? This is a co-dependent relationship, and both parties must be careful with their words, not just the Russians.

So, where's the imperialism?

Dick Cheney, the US vice-president, last week raised the issue in a characteristically blunt speech in Vilnius. He accused Russia of using oil and gas as “tools of intimidation and blackmail”. His speech was interpreted as a hardening of the US position ahead of the St Petersburg Group of Eight summit in July. Mr Cheney’s remarks were met with some alarm inside Russia, although they hardly made the news headlines in continental Europe.

But the continental Europeans took note of a recent statement by Alexei Miller, chief executive of Gazprom, who threatened to shift investment out of Europe unless he was allowed to invest in the downstream energy distribution business in the EU. Gazprom has recently signed a deal with BASF of Germany that would give the Germans access to a Russian gas field in exchange for an increased Gazprom stake in a German gas distribution company.

Again, please do not shift the order of things. Miller's declarations came after it had become obvious to all that even supposedly liberal Blair would not tolerate Gazprom entering the UK domestic gas market (as revealed in the columns of your own newspaper) AND after Europe started fretting noisily about growing dependence on Russia and the need to find alternatives. Russia is considering alternatives to Europe in the face of its absolute dependence on Europe as a client for gas exports, at a time when that client makes hostile noises about it. How is that unreasonable?

Germany remains Russia’s favourite partner within the EU – and a willing accomplice in a diplomatic game in which Russia plays EU member states off against each other. Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, remains committed to the special relationship with Russia, although her personal relations with President Vladimir Putin are not nearly as warm as those of Gerhard Schröder, her predecessor. At the end of the recent Russian- German summit in Tomsk, she spoke openly about differences of opinion over energy and Iran. By the standards of Russian-German summits, the meeting in Siberia did not go well on a personal level.

But one should be careful not to misinterpret Ms Merkel’s lack of personal rapport with Mr Putin as signalling a volte-face in German policy towards Russia. In particular, Ms Merkel continues to support the Baltic pipeline project, a joint venture between Gazprom and Germany’s BASF and Eon. The whole idea of this pipeline is to supply Russian gas directly to Germany and other west European countries, bypassing Poland and other east European countries.

There are very good reasons to bypass Poland - the main one is that thye do not see a pipeline as a joint endeavor, but only as a tool of blackmail and confrontation. The existing Yamal-Europe pipeline through Poland has been a headache for all parties, and it is understandable that neither the buyer not the seller of the gas are too keen to see their commercial transactions held hostage by a third party which uses the pipeline as a weapon. A pipeline is only as reliable as its weakest link, and Poland has proven not to be a reliable transit country.

The project is a relapse into the tradition of European bilateralism – although not quite on the scale of the Hitler-Stalin pact, as Radek Sikorski, the Polish defence minister, unwisely claimed. But the Poles and other east Europeans have good reason to be concerned about German-Russian deals at their expense. This pipeline allows Russia to cut off gas supplies to Poland and others while maintaining steady deliveries to Germany. There is no question that this pipeline will make Russia’s east European neighbours economically more dependent and politically more insecure.

By saying that Poland should be able to retaliate to Russia cutting it off by siphoning gas to Germany, you are making the point that gas deliveries are not commercial endeavours, and are political tools. That makes your earlier criticism of Russia supposedly using the gas weapon absolutely hypocritical. Either it is a weapon, and you cannot blame just one side for using it, or it is not, and your political arguments against the Baltic pipeline do not stand.

There is a clear need to reshape EU policy towards Russia. As Michael Emerson of the Centre for European Policy Studies in Brussels points out [link added], the EU should opt for a two-pronged policy response. It should formulate a joint position in the short run and reduce its dependence on Russian gas in the long run.

The only difference between now and a few years ago is that the UK is suddenly becoming a gas importer. France, Germany and Italy (and others) have long had to import most or all of their gas, and have managed to do this for years without it becoming an issue. They have been managing their imports from Russia (and previously, the "evil empire", Soviet Union) for close to 40 years now without a hitch. But now that the UK suddenly needs to think about importing gas, it becomes a major European concern? Give me a break. This is a UK problem first and foremost, let's not make this into a European problem.

For the time being, the EU should put maximum pressure on Russia to ratify the energy charter, which sets the ground rules for the trade and transport of energy in Europe. It was agreed by 49 European states in 1994 but Russia continues to refuse to ratify the treaty because it objects to the charter’s draft transit protocol. This would oblige Russia to open up spare pipeline capacity to foreign suppliers. José Manuel Barroso, president of the European Commission, and Mr Putin met in March to discuss this issue but without success.

Imposing third party access to Russia's pipelines is an apparently innocuous way to call for the break-up of Gazprom and for giving access to Russia's hydrocarbon reserves to Western investors. Implicitly, it asks for Russia's population to start paying full market prices for gas - when cheap gas is, very literally, whas has saved the country in the 90s, by providing at least the vital heat and power needed to survive. While there are arguments that the domestic energy sector in Russia could be made more efficient, including via price increases, this is really a domestic Russian issue, and preempting that debate for the profit of a few Western oil&gas companies is pretty selfish or short-sighted, not to mention intrusive and rude. We want Russian gas - well, we'd better deal with the fact that the Russians have the absolute right to set the terms under which that gas is produced and transported within their country.

The EU should also agree on a mutual support mechanism. This would be similar to Nato’s mutual defence clause. If Russia ever cut off gas supplies to any single EU member, other EU countries would be obliged to make up the shortfall. Such a mechanism could also go some way to neutralise the political fears caused by the Baltic Sea pipeline project.

Again, this shows a terrible combination of hypocrisy and inconsistency.

  • On the one hand, why would market mechanisms fail in such a situation? If one country were to be cut off, price signals would make it profitable for other players in the European gas market to divert gas to that country to take advantage of thre arbitrage opportunities created by the artifical shortage. Or are you admitting that market solutions do not work? If you were calling for further liberalization of the markets, it would at least be consistent. But this call for "solidarity" shows that you do not even believe in your own grand liberal theories;

  • Again, the only new issue today is the UK's sudden dependency on imports. What you are calling for is effectively for countries that have worried about security of supply and have built the infrastructure to deal with that preoccupation to subsidize the one country that has made no effort in that respect and now hopes to intimidate others, on spurious ideological arguments, into sharing their more reliable imported gas (which came at a cost) with it. Profits are privatised, and costs are socialised... The markets in action, again?

  • Finally, I'd be curious to know what market mechanisms are going to build the pipelines and other infrastructure needed to provide alternative gas sources to the countries that would be cut off from Russian gas. Or who should pay for this? Taxpayers or consumers? From the targetted countries or from all of Europe? Pro rata consumed volumes, imported volumes, Russian volumes? It's very easy to talk about "solidarity" without describing what you have in mind, and who will pay for it - or who decides on these questions. Politicians? Which ones?

The most intelligent long-run response consists of further energy liberalisation, securing alternative supply routes such as the planned pipeline project from the Caspian basin, and investing in liquefied natural gas, which is easier to transport.

After writing for two paragraphs how non-market solutions are needed, you now come back with the incantation for "markets, markets, markets". Excuse me if I don't take this seriously.

Neither big pipelines not big LNG projects are built on the basis of market mechanisms. They require long term "take-or-pay" contracts (i.e. the buyer has to pay whether it needs the gas or not) that cannot be cancelled; price formulas set for the whole duration, and strict contractual terms on all parties in the chain: the gas provider, the transporter and the buyer. This is the only way to finance these investments, as they need a minimum of visibility for anyone to pitch in the multi-billion dollar amounts needed before a single molecule can flow. All oil&gas companies know this, and use the same kind of contracts, becuase it's the only way this business works. Not acknowledging this and then pontificating about the reforms needed in the sector is tiresome, frankly.

Perhaps the single most important long-term measure – currently resisted by many EU states including Germany – would be to rethink their policy to phase out nuclear energy. Nuclear energy would not eliminate the need for gas imports but could play an important part in a strategy to reduce dependency on an increasingly aggressive monopoly supplier in the long run.

We've been discussing this in the Chernobyl thread, but the dichotomy between gas and nuclear is a false one. First of all, we should be worrying about energy conservation, and then we should focus on renwable sources (wind, solar, biomass). The debate about nuclear vs hydrocarbons should come a long way after.

This is not just a problem of one-sided dependency. Russia is just as dependent on the EU as the EU is on Russian gas. Russia’s reliance on oil and gas revenues has also distracted from economic reforms and contributed the country’s more authoritarian posture.

And the loud and repeated noises from Blair and Barroso (and now Cheney) about the need for Europe to diversify supplies, and for Russia to be forced to open its reserves and pipelines can only be seen by them as acts of aggression, intimidation and, yes, blackmail.

This is why Russia has become increasingly dangerous to the rest of Europe. There is a clear case for an effective EU policy towards Russia. Unfortunately, the EU is currently in the middle of a relapse into economic patriotism. Russia tests the EU’s ability to protect its interests – with the outcome uncertain.

Frankly, the only "economic patriotism" I have seen increase in recent months is that of the UK, which suddenly sees that "markets" don't solve all problems in the energy sector and tries to blame the more prudent Europeans on the continent for its self-inflicted woes - or the Russians, which have done nothing to deserve this.

So let's stop blaming the Russians, thinking that "markets" can solve what they very obviously will not (from your own writings), and let's start focusing on the very real issue of own wasteful and unsustainable use of energy.

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Are there two of him? One day he writes a perfectly reasonable article, the next he wanders off into bizarre ramblings. Or maybe he shouldn't wander outside the range of his own expertise.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon May 8th, 2006 at 09:02:16 AM EST
Energy is the one sector where the inconsistency and the hypocrisy of the "reform"/market liberalization crowd is easiest to point out.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon May 8th, 2006 at 09:04:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Besides the crookedness, as I understand it the Enron business model was to have other people actually do the dirty work of developing energy supplies while Enron made piles of cash by being the middleman.  Cheney, Blair, and the FT still obviously have this mindset.  The U.S. and the U.K. are looking at major gas shortages this year or next and do not want to spend the money to develop any alternatives, which as you point out involves delayed gratification.  Neither country thinks that way anymore; the response to high cost or shortages is to look to the outside.

My thought is that the gas shortages are pushing Cheney and Blair to an attack on Iran also.  That is the only place left where they can even theoretically get a designated chump to solve their gas problems.  They tell themselves that if they get regime change in Iran then all they have to do is build the reliquefication terminals in the U.K. and U.S.  

by tjbuff (timhess@adelphia.net) on Mon May 8th, 2006 at 09:58:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Dear Sir

Wolfgang Munchau perfectly encapsulates the mindset of the Blair/Barroso/Cheney crowd with respect to Russia - complete with blatant hypocrisy and terrible inconsistency.

  • When Russia talks about diversifying its clientele to China or the USA, it is blackmail, but when Europe says that it should diversify its suppliers away from Russia, that country has no reason to feel threatened by it? The dependency is mutual and works both ways.
  • the criticism of the Baltic pipeline as a denial of a weapon to the Poles (that of interrupting Russian gas exports further West) acknowledges the logic of pipelines as weapons, which makes a mockery of calls for crossborder gas infrastructure in Europe to be managed in accordance with pure market rules. If Poland should have access to such a weapon, why deny it to Russia then? Again, double standards.
  • the call for "solidarity" between European countries in cas of gas cuts by Russia to one of them suggests that market mechanisms would not be sufficient to solve the issue. Why wouldn't other European players on the market take advantage of the arbitrage opportunities created by such an artificial shortage? Calling for further elimination of the supposed obstacles to free energy markets in Europe would have been logical. The fact that such call is not made shows very well that market proponents know perfectly well that the markets are not enough to resolve such issues. The calls in the same article for further liberalisation are all the more incongruous.
  • the one thing which is never acknowledged in the panicked stories about Europe's "growing dependence" on Russian gas is that this is purely a UK story. France Germany, Italy and many others have long been largely or fully dependent on imported gas, and to a large extent on Russian gas, and they have managed that situation for a number of decades without any hitch. The only difference today is that the Blair government is panicking in the face of an apparently unplanned-for switch from net exporter to importer, and has found it convenient to blame "protectionists" on the continent or evil Russian "imperialists" for its lack of foresight. European solidarity in this context means that those European countries that have planned for, and paid for the infrastructure and long term contracts required to provide for security of supply would be required to share these investments with the one government that had as a policy not to plan for these things, because the "markets" would take care of it, and suddenly finds out that it is not the case.

You would provide a service to your readers not to indulge Blair's sad fantaisies and blame game.

Best Regards,

Jérôme Guillet
Editor, the European Tribune (www.eurotrib.com)

(with a link to this story)

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon May 8th, 2006 at 09:02:46 AM EST
Not bad: I'd have made some slightly different phrasing choices though. Maybe you should run these past an editor before sending them? And spellcheck them in English!
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon May 8th, 2006 at 09:13:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A good response, but if you expect it to be rpinted I'd have just reduced it to the final bullet point.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon May 8th, 2006 at 09:25:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks Jerome for coherent and timely analysis. I was disappointed in quality of FT authors work already long time and it only ruins its reputation trying to be useful tool for Blair administration.

But let's take a look from different side - negative publicity is also publicity. Investors flocked to buy shares of Gazprom seeing in it new Standard Oil Co.

It's difficult to imagine for EOn or Wintershall giving their rights and privileges to Brussels' inexperienced in gas business bureaucrats.

Overall this anti Gazprom campaign seems to me pure shaking the air.

by FarEasterner on Mon May 8th, 2006 at 11:01:38 AM EST

Overall this anti Gazprom campaign seems to me pure shaking the air.

True. But pissing off Russia needlessly is still stupid and counterproductive - unless the goal is indeed to pain Russia again as "obstructive and hostile" in order to better ignore its hostility to a war in Iran?

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon May 8th, 2006 at 11:04:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Overall this anti Gazprom campaign seems to me pure shaking the air.

I see two separate strands here: one is the top EU politicians making noise, which to me seems essentially a blame game for the home audience ("don't blame us for high prices, it's all outsiders' fault") and thus shaking the air (but also irresponsible as Migeru says); and at the same time the crowing of assorted propagandists who'd like to play geopolitical battles, which is also hot air because of lack of power behind it, but similarly it is also dangerous, if the propaganda gets into too many ears.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Mon May 8th, 2006 at 11:16:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
(but also irresponsible as Migeru says)

Braintypo. I meant Jérôme.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Mon May 8th, 2006 at 11:19:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
For a while there I thought I might be forgetting my own comments...

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon May 8th, 2006 at 11:24:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You have repeatedly argued that Gazprom would never cut off Europe for political reasons because the dependency runs both ways. If that is the case then you are making far too much of all this - it's just hot air with no potential consequences. On the other hand, if simple words could pose a danger to European energy supplies, then that means that Russia would be willing to use energy as a weapon.

That is even more true with respect to what you have said about Poland.  You quote the Poles as saying that the reason why the Poles are afraid of the Baltic pipeline is because the Poles want to be able to make sure that if Russia cuts off its supplies for political reasons, it can cut the connection between Russia and the rest of Europe. You argue that this somehow shows that Poland is an unreliable transit country. But again, you have argued that Russia would never cut gas supplies, so that means that Russia and Germany don't need to worry about Poland's reliability. You have also argued that the corruption in Poland's energy sector makes it an unreliable partner, but there's even worse corruption in the Russian energy sector - so if this makes Poland unreliable, why doesn't that apply to Russia?

Either the Poles are simply being paranoid about Russia, in which case the Baltic pipeline is just a waste of money and a way in which the Russians and Germans further hurt both of their relations with Poland.  Or the Poles really do have reason to be worried. Which is it? If it is the first, well, in the long run no big deal, though it would be if Poland's current government weren't already so hostile to the EU.  If it's the latter, then Europe is preparing the ground for either a complete breakdown in relations between the EU and Russia, or for the worst intra EU crisis in history.

by MarekNYC on Mon May 8th, 2006 at 02:58:54 PM EST
Jerome is saying that Poland is an unreliable transit country, just as Ukraine is, because it siphons off gas for free.

What you're saying is that Poland is reliable - although (even though?) - it siphons off gas for its own use without paying for it.  I guess Russia is supposed to be grateful that Poland doesn't take 100% of the gas?

The Poles have only themselves to blame for the Germans and Russians building the pipeline around them.  They got too greedy.

by slaboymni on Mon May 8th, 2006 at 06:12:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually, what Poland has done is much worse than what the Ukrainians have done, because the Ukrainians actually have a very strong argument to get some volumes of gas in exchange for the (much larger) volumes of transit they manage, as well as the gas storage facilities and the intra-Russian transit.

The Poles have been extracting actual cash out of Gazprom, lots of it, taking advantage of its weakness a few years back when it was literally the back against the wall.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon May 8th, 2006 at 06:17:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How much do the Poles get and how does that compare with typical transit rates (if there is such a thing).  

In any case I really don't think that that is the main concern of the Poles. Any such cooperation between Germany and Russia bypassing Poland is going to make Poles rather upset - two centuries of history and on the Russian side, though not the German one, a disturbing understanding of that history.

by MarekNYC on Mon May 8th, 2006 at 08:09:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Poland has been a pain with regard to the existing pipeline (despite Russian never cutting supplies), and has been using it as a political tool, and has a way to racketeer Gazprom wit hit (I have no other word) and they pretty explicitly want a bigger "tool" to play with.

What makes it obvious that they have not been behaving reasonably is how keen the Germans are to go via the Baltic pipe. They have never shown the same kind of worry about Ukraine, for instance.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon May 8th, 2006 at 06:13:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I just realized that behind such publications we can see very practical idea of renewing transatlantic relations at Russia's expence, cementing western (read American) identity. After WWII Western Europe absorbed American values of democracy and liberalism. After the end of Cold War Western Europe felt less vulnerable and decided to create new pole of power - EU but new members of EU were against it. I know that some of "Old European" leaders like Prodi and Chirac wanted to create inside EU the core group of countries with separate European identity and interests but in this case EU as a whole would weaken.
What if Americans are right and EU must be subordinated to US alliance? US - EU alliance would be formidable.
by FarEasterner on Wed May 10th, 2006 at 01:15:39 AM EST
Nah, won't happen. Too many differences and rivalries.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed May 10th, 2006 at 06:39:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
For example: Euro or Dollar?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed May 10th, 2006 at 06:56:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Western Europe felt less vulnerable and decided to create new pole of power - EU

It is true that with the name EU, the EU exists only from after the Cold War. However, its precursors, and the goals it embodies, existed for much longer, and the reforms that led to the re-branding of the European projects called EU were

but new members of EU were against it.

Against deeper integration were chiefly Britain ("Old Europe") and Poland (one of the "New Europeans"). The rest of the new members had, on one hand, a more vague position, on the other hand, don't have that much weight.

I know that some of "Old European" leaders like Prodi and Chirac wanted to create inside EU the core group of countries with separate European identity and interests

Separate EUropean identity and interests already exist, the 'core group' would be about deeper integration (a quantitative, not qualitative difference). Prodi merely didn't loudly oppose such an idea, it was more Chirac who threatened with it, but Schröder and Fischer didn't go along.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Wed May 10th, 2006 at 06:49:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
and the reforms that led to the re-branding of the European projects called EU were

...started in the eighties.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Wed May 10th, 2006 at 06:56:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I disagree with your reading of the history...

Before WWI Europe struggled with the adoption of liberal democracy [bourgeois democracy] and coming out of the ancien regime. Between the world wars liberal democracy was weak because it was bourgeois and not inclusive enough. Fascism and Socialism had the upper hand, and lbearlism allied itself with socialism to defeat fascism. After WWII, socialism and liberalism were the poles, and Europe developed its own brand of social democracy [with roots dating before WWI].

The EU has its origins and motivation within Western Europe itself: France and Germany wanted to make it impossible to have WWII between them. The transtlantic relationship is built around NATO and the "red scare" was not a factor in creating the EU [we've debated this point here on ET before, without general agreement].

After the fall of the Iron Curtain and 40 years of European Construction, the EU was ready to become its own global pole. The US opposes that and want to see the EU subordinate to the US through NATO.

The 'new europe' countries are atlanticists, more pro-NATO than pro-EU. From the point of view of making the EU independent of the US, they function as US Trojan horses. The EU as a whole is weaker because of this, and separating the 'core' could strengthen it again. 'New Europe' in this atlanticist, US-subordinate role includes the UK and any other peripheral [not France or Germany] Western European countries which happen to have christian-democrat governments [Barroso, Aznar, Berlusconi, Fogh-Rasmussen, Bondevik, Balkenende...]

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed May 10th, 2006 at 07:01:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
  caution please.

 " [Certain political actors in] The US oppose[s] that and want to see the EU subordinate to the US through NATO."

 true.

  In my house we want to see the Union Européenne thrive as an example of a coöperative collection of free and genuinely self-governing nations which share and promote and defend real democratic ideals--everywhere.


"In such an environment it is not surprising that the ills of technology should seem curable only through the application of more technology..." John W Aldridge

by proximity1 on Thu May 11th, 2006 at 10:45:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Interesting you say you disagree with my view of history and then in substance agree with it.

Trojan horses, peripheral states - isn't it like Russia treats them? In Russian media Eastern European countries considered as somewhat insignificant, as a geographic barrier on cooperation with Western Europe, therefore attempts to avoid them as a transport transit link if possible.

If Chirac and Prodi succeed in creating separate core group isn't it a sign of weakness of Old European identity? Old Europe for Poles is less attractive than American security umbrella.

by FarEasterner on Sun May 14th, 2006 at 08:11:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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