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***Keen on Keynes

by Migeru Sun Jul 23rd, 2006 at 09:31:04 AM EST

Keynes was a funny guy. He believed that increasing public debt to pay for wasteful activities is a good way of stimulating employment, since we are so reasonable as to prefer wholly wasteful activities to partly wasteful ones. If the boetians argue against unemployment benefits, the state should bury money in the ground and hire people to dig it up. The Egypt of the Pharaohs had the secret of full employment in the constant building of funerary monuments. In the end, though, there is one serious point: unemployment and recession result from managing the State like a business. Take that, all of you right-wing ideologues.

I kid you not. You can read the original after the fold.

From the front page ~ whataboutbob


John Maynard Keynes: "The Marginal Propensity to Consume", in The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money (1936)

VI When involuntary unemployment exists, the marginal disutility of labour is necessarily less than the marginal product. Indeed it may be much less. For a man who has been long unemployed some measure of labour, instead of involving disutility, may have a positive utility. If this is accepted, the above reasoning shows how 'wasteful' loan expenditure[1]may nevertheless enrich the community on balance. Pyramid-building, earthquakes, even wars may serve to increase wealth, if the education of our statesmen on the principles of the classical economics stands in the way of anything better.

It is curious how common sense, wriggling for an escape from absurd conclusions, has been apt to reach a preference for wholly 'wasteful' forms of loan expenditure rather than for partly wasteful forms, which, because they are not wholly wasteful, tend to be judged on strict 'business' principles. For example, unemployment relief financed by loans is more readily accepted than the fiinancing of improvements at a charge below the current rate of interest; whilst the form of digging holes in the ground known as gold-mining, which not only adds nothing whatever to the real wealth of  the world but involved the disutility of labour, is the most acceptable of all solutions.

If the Treasury were to fill old bottles with banknotes, bury them at suitable depths in disused coalmines, which are then filled up to the surface with town rubbish, and leave it to private enterprise on well-tried principles of laissez-faire to dig the notes up again (the right to do so being obtained, of course, by tendering for leases of the note-bearing territory), there need be no more unemployment and, with the help of the repercussions, the real income of the community, and its capital wealth also, would probably become a good deal greater than it actually is. It would, indeed, be more sensible to build houses and the like; but if there are political and practical difficulties in the way of this, the above would be better than nothing.

The analogy between this expedient and the gold-mining of the real world is complete. At periods where gold is available at suitable depths experience shows that the real wealth of the world increases rapidly; and when little of it is available our wealth suffers stagnation and decline. Thus gold-mines are of the greatest value and importance to civilisation. Just as wars have been the only form of large-scale loan expenditure which statesmen have thought justifiable, so gold-mining is the only pretext for digging holes in the ground which has recommended itself to bankers as sound finance; and each of these activities has played a part in progress—failing something better. To mention a detail, the tendency in slumps for the price of gold to rise in terms of labour and materials aids eventual recovery, because it increases the depth at which gold-digging pays and lowers the minimum grade of ore which is payable.

In addition to the probable effect of increased supplies of gold to the rate of interest, gold-mining is for two reasons a highly practical form of investment, if we are precluded from increasing employment by means which at the same time increase our stock of useful wealth. In the first place, owing to the gambling attractions which it offers it is carried on without too close a regard to the ruling rate of interest. In the second place the result, namely, the increased stock of gold, does not, as in other cases, have the effect of diminishing its marginal utility. Since the value of a house depends on its utility, every house which is built serves to diminish the prospective rents obtainable from further house-building and therefore lessens the attraction of further similar investment unless the rate of interest is failing pari passu. But the fruits of gold-mining do not suffer from this disadvantage, and a check can only come though a rise in the wage-unit in terms of gold, which is not likely to occur unless and until employment is substantially better. Moreover, there is no subsequent reverse effect on account of provision for user and supplementary costs, as in the case of less durable forms of wealth.

Ancient Egypt was doubly fortunate, and doubtless owed to this its fabled wealth, in that it possessed two activities, namely pyramid-building as well as the search for the precious metals, the fruits of which, since they could not serve the needs of man by being consumed, did not stale with abundance. The Middle Ages built cathedrals and sang dirges. Two pyramids, two masses for the dead, are twice as good as one; but not so two railways from London to York. Thus we are so sensible, have schooled ourselves to so close a semblant of prudent financiers, taking careful thought before we add to the 'financial' burdens of posterity by building them houses to live in, that we have no such easy escape from the sufferings of unemployment. We have to accept them as inevitable results of applying to the conduct of the State the maxims which are best calculated to 'enrich' an individual by enabling him to pile up claims to enjoyment which he does not intend to exercise at any definite time.

  1. It is often convenient to use the term 'loan expenditure' to include the public investment financed by borrowing from individuals and also any other current public expenditure which is so financed. Strictly speaking, the latter should be reckoned as negative saving, but official action of this kind is not influenced by the same sort of psychological motives as those which govern private saving. Thus 'loan expenditure' is a convenient expression for the net borrowings of public authorities on all accounts, whether on capital accounts or to meet a budgetary deficit. The one form of loan expenditure operates by increasing investment and the other by increasing the propensity to consume.
Man, if Keynes were alive and contributing to ET we'd have an inexhaustible supply of high-quality snark.

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This is:
. Unintelligible 0%
. Ha-ha, not funny 0%
. Funny as in weird 0%
. Ha-ha funny 33%
. Hilarious 16%
. Amazing, did 1930's economists not see the joke was on them? 50%

Votes: 6
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There are other pearls in this book keeping me safe from unemployment as I dig them up.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jul 20th, 2006 at 05:35:32 PM EST
but Finnicky on Synarchy

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Jul 20th, 2006 at 06:08:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I want more, but continue to guide us please...

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Jul 20th, 2006 at 06:12:59 PM EST
There's more where that came from. I have one lined up about the stock market that will blow your socks off.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jul 20th, 2006 at 06:15:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I had to attempt Keynes some decades ago and couldn't wade through the language. I gave up, stupidly.

So your diary (and the ones to come), where the insight contained within the writing is brought out by isolating, editing and commentary, is great. Much appreciated.

I had a similar resistance to Philosophy before discovering 'Charts of Philosophers and Philosophy' by Milton D. Hannex. It's a sort of visual crib book for students using tree charts to show the geneology (and bifurcation) of philosophic thought, accompanied by amazing 10 line summaries of each school and philosopher.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Jul 21st, 2006 at 03:34:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I just have a thing for reading old works. Must have been early exposure to my father's never completed (or twice completed but never published, I am not sure) translation of Archimedes.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jul 21st, 2006 at 03:47:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
couldn't wade through the language

Don't you think it's a pity that more and more people complete their education unable to access any of the great classical works in their own language, should they choose to? I mean, I understand it's torture to force quasi-literate teenagers to read Chaucer, but on the other hand there is a point in teaching people to understand and express themselves in more ways than how they talk to their friends.

Someone pointed out once somewhere that foreigners possibly have easier access to Shakespeare than native English speakers because each generation is likely to produce new translations adapted to the language of the day, while educated native speakers would be loath to read a "modernisation".

Personally, the palate I don't have for vintage wines I have for old language. But that's just me.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jul 21st, 2006 at 05:10:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I was brought up on Chaucer, Shakespeare, Webster et al.

I am an avid reader. I'm sitting here surrounded by books.

But there are more books than I could ever read. So one has to prioritise. I've picked up a lot of books, started them, and then thought 'this is not for me'. Perhaps I should add 'yet' to that admission.

But literature, and one's interface with it, is a continuum. Many books require one to have read other books before they open themselves.

Time - in the Hallmark Theory of Relativity - exists to stop everything happening at once. Being in that state is something that I think you understand.

You should be joyful that you have reintroduced something valuable into my continuum at, apparently, the right time. ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Jul 21st, 2006 at 07:36:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, I'm not trying to imply that you're illiterate. But we have had debates before on this site on language standards, and living and dead language, and I think it is a pity that people today just think about what is immediately useful, and effectively shut themselves out (or the educational system shuts them out) of experiencing anything older than a few years. Not to speak of writing as if they were doing SMS.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jul 21st, 2006 at 07:53:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This is a damn hard book to read, by the way, but one thing it is not is boring.

Another thing I've observed is that "classics" are modern in that they often read better than the average new book. What a 70-year-old book is a better read than a 7-year-olf one, you know which one is the better one. Some people go as far as to never read anything more recent than a certain threshold: if it's no longer available or talked about n years after publication, it's not worth reading.

On the other hand, one can be on the cutting edge of new trends and that's a full-time job, too. It's a good thing we're all different from each other: life would be too boring otherwise.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jul 21st, 2006 at 08:03:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As a student, Hans-Georg Gadamer was asked if he had read a certain new book. "I don't read books newer than 2,000 years," replied Gadamer.

The world's northernmost desert wind.
by Sirocco (sirocco2005ATgmail.com) on Fri Jul 21st, 2006 at 08:36:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"Classics" has been chosen on some criterias, one of which is this sense of modernity. I think another one might be some feeling of hope in the darkness of the human situation.

I have been thinking a bit about why Jules Verne is only known for his early works where he presents technology as wondrous new stuff and not his late ones (after the french-preussian war I think) where he reuses his old heroes as madmen who does not care how many they kill as long as they can realise their ideas.

I also saw the new "War of the Worlds" the other day. Compared to the book it, I prefer the book, the classic. But more importantly, what has been changed is not only odd subplots and idiotic changes in the main plot (while keeping the stuff that could really use an update), but also the dark message in Wells book. That the aliens are just like us, killing the "undeveloped" to take their land. And this is one of Wells more positive books. His grimly profetical "The War in the Air" has never to my knowledge been filmed and does not feature on lists of classic books.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Fri Jul 21st, 2006 at 08:48:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't believe the 7 year old of 200 years ago is wiser then the 7 year old of today. The brains are the same size and pulse at the same 8 times a second or so and give off the same 8 watts of heat.

What is different is that we can now explain different phenomena in a different way. Whether it is the right way or not, only history will tell. Science has also had it's ups and downs - like faith - and no doubt we are nowhere near the truth yet. And I doubt if any of us will ever find it, or be around when it is found.

Meantime we all try to get on as best we can.

When was the Golden Age of human progress? Or is it now? In the future?

Meantime we live here, today - with all its problems. We do our best - even here - to spread ideas and change minds. Maybe we could do more. But people have to be motivated to change. That is our biggest problem.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Jul 21st, 2006 at 09:11:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't believe the 7 year old of 200 years ago is wiser then the 7 year old of today.

The Ancients are lucky that their embarrassing crap has turned to dust so we don't get to read it. Except when it becomes the holy book of some cult or other.

I think it was the poet Pablo Neruda that said "when I die they'll publish even my socks". My mother has a "complete works" of Ruben Dario, and there is this particular "early" poem of his that we know as "Ruben's socks".

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jul 21st, 2006 at 09:22:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Perhaps I should have said 2000 years ago or 5000 years ago.

My point is that your relationship with the world you are IN, has its own insights.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Jul 21st, 2006 at 12:35:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I may be mistaken, but I believe this is precisely the same phenomenon that has been occurring in Japan during its recession throughout the 1990's:

The colossal subsidies flowing to construction mean that the combined national budget devotes an astounding 40 percent of expenditures to public works (versus 8 to 10 percent in the United States and 4 to 6 percent in Britain and France). -- by 1998 it (the construction industry) employed 6.9 million people, more than 10 percent of Japan's workforce--more than double the relative numbers in the United States and Europe. Experts estimate that as many as one in five jobs in Japan depends on construction, if one includes work that derives indirectly from public-works contracts. -- In 1994, concrete production in Japan totaled 91.6 million tons, compared with 77.9 millions tons in the United States. This means that Japan lays about thirty times as much per square foot as the United States. -- By the end of the century...shoreline that had been encased in concrete has risen to 60 percent or more.

From Joi Ito's blog on Alex Kerr's Dogs and Demons



Point n'est besoin d'espérer pour entreprendre, ni de réussir pour persévérer. - Charles le Téméraire
by marco on Thu Jul 20th, 2006 at 10:00:27 PM EST
So Keynes is no mean stand-in for Swift. Really.

Thus we are so sensible ... taking careful thought before we add to the 'financial' burdens of posterity by building them houses to live in

Brilliant.

Keep mining. Nuggets increase wealth.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Jul 21st, 2006 at 02:07:06 AM EST
I mean, really,
Pyramid-building, earthquakes, even wars may serve to increase wealth, if the education of our statesmen on the principles of the classical economics stands in the way of anything better.


Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jul 21st, 2006 at 02:22:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Wow.. it looks like he knew the work of Boas and other antrhopologists on complex economic structures in other societies.

This kind of argument can only come from someone who understand the symbolic nature of the economic system. From accepting a piece of paper as a magic entitity for interchange to the irrelevance of the activity you are performing as long as the balance in the economic system is sustained. The fact that we have  a better place to live or a better life thanks to better food (or more) is just a side effect of keeping the symbolic universe balance...it is better to do something stupid to keep the balance than allow an imbalance by doing nothing because it does not produce anything useful to the society needs of the moment.

Besides, the society needs are highly voaltile (except food and shelter .. and even.. what kind of food and what kind of shelter?)...in this light the famous bubble phenomena is understood as an imbalance in the symbolic system...because someone detects the presence of the imbalance (itself a concept with a whole narrative behind) and wants to take advantage of it we ahve the bubbbles, when nobody sees a bubble there is no bubble, reality is by definition irrelevant from the moment you accept the prodcution of a piece of paper (money) as a knot of the system....so real crisis happen int he symbolic universe.. not in the real.

One last argument to sustain that Keynes was right,  wars are the contrary to what humans would want but they are nevertheless, as good way as any other to keep a certain symbolic balance in the economic system by producing soemthing tha tkills..and generating debt, investment  and activity to keep everybody busy and keep a large level of interchange which is one/the key of a large healthy/balanced economy (see potlach)

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Fri Jul 21st, 2006 at 06:02:03 AM EST
Reminds of Georges Bataille, La notion de dépense. May not go over with heavyweight economists but he made a point, human activity is primarily based on waste.
by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Fri Jul 21st, 2006 at 09:33:06 AM EST
This is pretty dismal. What are the prospects for "sustainable" economics?

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jul 21st, 2006 at 10:22:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
like all other 'disciplines', has to be measured against the entropy of happiness.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Jul 21st, 2006 at 12:37:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't want to over paraphrase but there was behind it all an upbeat idea: there's an excess of resources. But to keep the pecking order in place, resources must be squandered. Societies need to waste in order to maintain themselves.

A glance at the US military machine and its reckless instant obsolescence might convey the idea.

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Fri Jul 21st, 2006 at 05:59:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Societies need to waste in order to maintain themselves."

I don't know about any pecking orders...though...

What Keynes is talking about is the value of employment to societies, from Ancient Egypt onwards, and it doesn't much matter how this employment is created. Except the government, which shouldn't be run as a business, is responsible.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Jul 23rd, 2006 at 10:30:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
though, is that the US government provides employment through the military, which is devoted to destruction. A wise government focuses on construction projects.

A 500 billion dollar international project to reduce energy use and develop new technologies in cooperation with the rest of the world, started 6 years ago, would have been infinitely more useful to the USA and indeed the rest of the world, than what that sum has been spent on. It would have brought enormous employment benefits to the rest of the world.

The US might well have been looked upon more kindly as a result, and I believe the hornets' nest that BushCo has stupidly poked with a sharp stick would be relatively quiescent.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Jul 23rd, 2006 at 10:39:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
How does a wise government employ people massively [presumably at low-skilled jobs] sustainably?

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 23rd, 2006 at 02:01:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Would be one  example. The Mission to the Moon would be another

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Jul 23rd, 2006 at 06:08:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Massively, as we saw during the New Deal or buildup to the war?  It can't do so sustainably, and it causes problems with shortages and inflation eventually.  But hopefully the private sector picks up and makes massive employment programs unnecessary, as it did in Europe and America after the war, along with some smart government policies -- e.g., the GI Bill.

So you're enjoying Keynes, eh?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Aug 3rd, 2006 at 01:01:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Very well put, thanks.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 23rd, 2006 at 01:35:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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