Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.

Amigos de Escolar... bienvenidos!!

by kcurie Wed Aug 9th, 2006 at 03:51:39 PM EST

Bienvenidos...bienvenidos a este diario sin acentos y sin enye!!!! viva el teclado ingles!!!

Supongo que estabais por escolar.net y habeis entrado en la discusion sobre la OTAN y ASNAR.. y luego pues ale habeis decidido pasearos por aqui..mirar que cosas hay y tal. Bien bien. La verdad es que esta pagina web es un poco mas compleja de lo habitual..asi que os tengo que dar la bienvenida formal.

Esta pagina web es..como decirlo...como una ciudad...si si una ciudad, bueno.. una ciudad o un pagina web con un software muy especial. Si quieres saber como funciona nuestra ciudad sin tener que leer todo el rollo del user guide ...sigueme debajo


En el centro teneis entradas tipo blogs ...pero son algo mas que meras entradas de blog, son diarios sobre un tema en concreto. Y debajo gracias al software impechonante comments donde se mantienen acoloradas discusiones. Para participar en las discusiones solo hay que apuntarse...ale venga al login!!

Pero lo mejor de todo es que las entradas de los diarios principales no solo los hacen los administradores sino CULAQUIER MIEMBRO de la comunidad... para ello solo tienes que hacer un diario  sobre un tema  ( y hacerlo lo suficientemente bien) y colgarlo...es bien facil. Si el diario es bueno es recomendado por los miembros de la comunidad -los diarios mas recomendados ahora mismo los podeis ver a  la derecha-...y si es muy bueno pues el administrador (los gnomos les llamamos) lo ponen en primera plana.

Asi pues si quereis practicar ingles y ser los editores de una pagina a nivel europeo.. apuntaros. Podeis dedicar vuestro esfuerzo a cualquier tema que os interese...Somos una comunidad y un think tank..estamos generando nuevas ideas en energia, medio ambiente, politica...y todo eso a la vez que comentamos los temas de cada dia...si os mola la marcha...Bienvenidos!!!

Display:
Well.. this is bascially a diary to wellcome anybody coming from Escoalr explaining the basic of the site....so that they can see it at first glance without going to the user guide...

It explains the front-page and the diaries...overall the possibility to write in frontpage just by writing a good diary...

So any comments wellcome... althoug .. it is probalby too late.....we will see.. in any case...

Wellcome and Benvinguts
A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Wed Aug 9th, 2006 at 01:55:21 PM EST
Oye, lo de CULAQUIER MIEMBRO se presta a interpretaciones varias y variadas.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Aug 9th, 2006 at 01:57:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A posta

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Wed Aug 9th, 2006 at 01:58:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Con un par ;-)

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Aug 9th, 2006 at 02:00:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Con un par, el miembro..? Es asi?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Aug 9th, 2006 at 03:53:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Con un par=with a couple... (of balls, of course)...

I have a couple of balls to write this since MIEMBRO means also dick... actually anything in spanish can mean dick or balls...so do not worry...

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Wed Aug 9th, 2006 at 06:15:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, a member with a pair was indeed what I had understood... ;)

(In other words, the pun works in English too.)

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Aug 10th, 2006 at 01:34:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hi there, Gràcies! I'm Amanda from Barcelona. I've been lurking  here for sometime, a year, maybe and I registered myself some weeks ago. So I'm not coming from Escolar, I just happen to read here and there. I would like to post more but my written English is quite pitiful and it takes me long time to express myself coherently. Funny, when I think that I'm spending 8 hours or more every day reading in English (to translate it to Spanish), but the other way round it's difficult for me.
Anyway, Gràcies per la benvinguda i a ver si me animo y posteo más.
by amanda2006 on Wed Aug 9th, 2006 at 04:15:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If you can write comments half as coherent as that you'll be ahead of me ... welcome aboard.

We don't require comments (or diaries) to be in excellent English.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Aug 9th, 2006 at 04:16:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, but this short introduction took me 10 minutes and my time is quite limited, unfortunately. But it's a pleasure to read ET, really.
by amanda2006 on Wed Aug 9th, 2006 at 04:26:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If you knew how long I had to think to write my silly one-line comment above (and it would give me as much trouble to write in Catalan)!

But welcome, and put in a comment from time to time when you can!

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Aug 9th, 2006 at 04:34:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Amanda, debes sentir te libre hacer su post en castellano, y despues traducir lo para los no hispanoparlantes.  Ingles es mi lengua madre y todavia tengo muchos errores de grammatica y letramiento cuando escribo.  Por favor, escribe, y nosotros hispanoparlantes pueden traducirlo.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg
by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Wed Aug 9th, 2006 at 05:11:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You english is quite pitiful??? Are you kidding.. you beat me any other day of the week odds and even included.

By the way...  we are two!!!

yuhooo!!!!

De Barcelona, Barcelona o de rodalies o mes aviat del Pirineu... o... per fi per fi per fi algu amb qui fer comentaris en conya en catala i que algu se n'enteri....per cert s'accepta poesia en catala...jo poso la traduccio...

Per cert.. ves en compte que aqui hi ha molta gent que enten el catala encara que gairabe no ha estat mai a Catalunya...com l'Asnar pero de debo...per sort no entenen ni faba quan parles una miqueta en slang....

Ens veiem per aqui...

Here you have.. I just wrote  some lines in a very weird language used during WWII to encode messages... because it was so different from any other language...specially non-latin languages...Ok OK.... I was just wellcoming in catalan...and congratulating myself because now someone will be able to understand my jokes in catalan (if I make any???))

Well.....

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Wed Aug 9th, 2006 at 06:14:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hola, Kcurie. I was born in Barcelona but I'm living in the Maresme. I will post some catalan poetry, do you like Enric Casasses, the contracultural urban poet? Here you can hear a couple of poems.
http://www.uoc.edu/lletra/noms/ecasasses/

salut i força al canut

by amanda2006 on Thu Aug 10th, 2006 at 04:30:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Bienvenida, Amanda.  Verdad que tu ingles es tanto mejor de (que?) mi espanol.

We all bleed the same color.
by budr on Wed Aug 9th, 2006 at 06:58:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Can I answer this ? Can I answer this?? Je je :)

Kisses...muachhhh

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Wed Aug 9th, 2006 at 07:52:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Your English is perfectly understandable.  

But I understand what you mean about it being easier to translate from a foreign language than into one.  Because in the latter case, it is more difficult to tell if you are making sense or not.

Anyway, welcome!

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Wed Aug 9th, 2006 at 09:54:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, its probably like you said kcurie, our Spanish Amigos and Amigas may have come and gone...but let's put this up there anyway.

Could Mig or you post a link in the comments section Migeru's diary that will lead people to this?

Alright...buenos noches!!

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia

by whataboutbob on Wed Aug 9th, 2006 at 03:55:11 PM EST
Ok i will do it..

but come and gone....

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Wed Aug 9th, 2006 at 04:07:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, if we're gonna go bilingual I'll have to learn spanish. Good excuse as any, tho Migeru I may need help

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Aug 9th, 2006 at 04:02:07 PM EST
Absolutely bilingual..another link from escolar or from anotehr big site in Spain and I think we will do the change...

and wait because it can also come from Catalonia...trilingual....

like the trinity...

or whatever..

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Wed Aug 9th, 2006 at 04:11:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thank you kcurie! I actually went to add the link myself, but you kindly did the job...excellent!!

We will have to work on being a bit quicker on our feet next time...but still, lots of new visitors, which is very nice!! Thank you, thank you!!

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia

by whataboutbob on Wed Aug 9th, 2006 at 04:16:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Colman, you know how when you write a new diary or story there is a pull-down menu with "everything, diary, economy, ...". Would it be possible to add options for diary language, or a separate pull-down menu for languages? That way it would become possible to search for (or within) diaries according to language.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Aug 9th, 2006 at 06:15:31 PM EST
Las computadoras son notorio malo en entender lengua humana. Están muy rápidamente en la detección de la palabra "pecho," pero cuando viene a decidir a si se está utilizando obscenely o no, ellas es flummoxed totalmente.

Hasta ahora, la inteligencia artificial (AI) es solamente funcionando en películas como 2001 y en la estrella emigra. Cuando alguien desarrolla la estrella Emigrar-como el AI, después tu ordenador personal podrá a la pre-exploración al Web page y decidirá, casi infalible, si es obscene (o divertido, o el interesar: escoger un adjetivo).

Pero eso no va a suceder en caulquier momento pronto.    Aquí está una ilustración para conducir este hogar. Los filósofos pueden subir con las definiciones intrincadas para lo que significará para una computadora "entiende" una página del texto inglés escrito, pero para nuestros propósitos, digamos que una computadora "entiende" algo si puede traducirlo exactamente a otra lengua. La comprensión implica el escoger entre diversos significados de palabras ambiguas, reconociendo el contexto, descifrando el sintaxis - todas las cosas que sean importantes ambos para la traducción, y a decidir a si el texto es obscene o no. No podemos mirar la tripa de una computadora para ver si entiende algo, pero podemos hechar una ojeada lo que piensa es una buena traducción. Si no puede traducir bien, no entiende probablemente.

Resulta que los informáticos casi han estado trabajando en la traducción automática desde el amanecer de computadoras. El gobierno de los E.E.U.U. vertía millones en la investigación por los mediados de los años cincuenta...

Las infelicidades en el texto antedicho no se deben culpar en el autor del ensayo (en inglés).

Words and ideas I offer here may be used freely and without attribution.

by technopolitical on Wed Aug 9th, 2006 at 06:22:15 PM EST
Tamos a anyos luz de entender el contexto con las correlaciones...chungo..

We are too far away for good translation..wbut we are almost already tehre as a useful tool so taht you do not have to type everything...

Maybe in 20 yeras we improve it...but I think there is something in the structure of language that will prevent any computer to make a perfect translation...well in any case, you will need a human being with full comprehension for the next decades.

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Wed Aug 9th, 2006 at 06:49:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Experiment follows:

I have sometimes wondered whether the quality of machine translations could be improved interactively. The idea is that the writer would have a machine translate to the target language, and than back again. The writer woud then write and rewrite the text until it had the same meaning after the round trip. It just occured to me that Google language tools would let me test this.

Me he preguntado a veces si la calidad de traducciones automáticas se podría mejorar recíprocamente. La idea es que el escritor hizo que una máquina tradujera a la lengua objetivo, y que trasera otra vez. El woud del escritor después escribe y reescribe el texto hasta que tenía el mismo significado después del viaje redondo. Acaba de ocurrir a mí que las herramientas de la lengua de Google me dejarían probar esto.

I have asked myself sometimes if the quality of automatic translations could be improved reciprocally. The idea is that the writer caused that a machine translated to the objective language, and that back again. Woud of the writer later writes and rewrites the text until it had he himself meaning after the round trip. It finishes happening to me that the tools of the language of Google would let to me prove this.


Again:

I have asked myself sometimes if the quality of automatic translations could be improved by means of a process in which the author would participate. The idea is that an author can direct a machine to translate a text into another language, and then translate it back into the first language. Then the author can change the text until the second translation had the meaning that the author had intended. A few minutes ago, I realized that I could do this using the language tools provided by Google. Can someone among you European polyglots tell me whether this appears to be useful? (Able to improve the meaning, not the style!)

Tengo preguntado a veces si la calidad de traducciones automáticas se podría mejorar por medio de un proceso en el cual el autor participaría. La idea es que un autor puede ordenar una máquina para traducir un texto a otra lengua, y después la traduce nuevamente dentro de la primera lengua. Entonces el autor puede cambiar el texto hasta que la segunda traducción tenía el significado que el autor había pensado. Hace algunos minutos, realicé que podría hacer esto que usaba las herramientas de la lengua proporcionadas por Google. ¿Puede alguien entre ti los polyglots europeos decirme si esto aparezca ser útil? (Capaz de mejorar el significado, no el estilo!)

I have sometimes asked if the quality of automatic translations could be improved by means of a process in which the author would participate. The idea is that an author can order a machine to translate a text to another language, and later she translates it again within the first language. Then the author can change the text until the second translation had the meaning that the author had thought. Some minutes ago, I made that it could do this that used the tools of the language provided by Google.  Can somebody between you polyglots European say to me if this appears to be useful? (The Able to improve the meaning, not style)


And finally:

I have asked myself sometimes if the quality of automatic translations could be improved by means of a process in which the author would participate. The idea is that an author can direct a machine to translate a text into another language, and then translate it to the first language. Then the author can change the text until the second translation has the meaning that the author had intended. A few minutes ago, I understood that, with the translation service provided by Google, I could attempt to do this task. Can one of you tell me whether this makes the meaning of the translation more accurate?

Tengo preguntado a veces si la calidad de traducciones automáticas se podría mejorar por medio de un proceso en el cual el autor participaría. La idea es que un autor puede ordenar una máquina para traducir un texto a otra lengua, y después la traduce a la primera lengua. Entonces el autor puede cambiar el texto hasta que la segunda traducción tiene el significado que el autor había pensado. Hace algunos minutos, entendía que, con el servicio de traducción proporcionado por Google, podría procurar hacer esta tarea. ¿Puede uno de ti decirme si éste haga el significado de la traducción más exacto?

I have sometimes asked if the quality of automatic translations could be improved by means of a process in which the author would participate. The idea is that an author can order a machine to translate a text to another language, and later she translates it to the first language. Then the author can change the text until the second translation has the meaning that the author had thought. Some minutes ago, he understood that, with the service of translation provided by Google, he could try to make this task.  Can one of you say to me if this one makes the meaning of the most exact translation?

I will cheat at this point: peeking at the Spanish (which I studied once, producing no useful skills), it seems to me that some of the worst mangling occurred on the return trip, and so I will stop trying to improve it. Clearly, with practice, one could learn which patterns of expression that work better or worse.

Do you know of other experiments based on this principle? This is my first attempt.

Words and ideas I offer here may be used freely and without attribution.

by technopolitical on Wed Aug 9th, 2006 at 07:00:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think we will have perfect machine translations sometime after we have perfect machine AI.  The comprehension and generation of idiomatic human language is probably the single biggest problem in AI.  When we crack that nut the rest will be easy.

We all bleed the same color.
by budr on Wed Aug 9th, 2006 at 07:08:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
image processing is much much much much more ...awful

language... there is hope that somewhere in the correlations we could get some context for the machine..
Image recognition of faces...puaghhhh...

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Wed Aug 9th, 2006 at 07:55:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Dejame anadir lo mas importante: ofrecemos tequila a los primeres diez mil inscribidos.
by Alex in Toulouse on Thu Aug 10th, 2006 at 06:15:20 AM EST
OStras!!!!

Lo habia olvidado...bebida gratis a todo el que venga de un blog español!!!!(tengo ññññññ)

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Thu Aug 10th, 2006 at 06:49:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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