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Bin Laden is likely dead - rumours flying

by manon Sat Sep 23rd, 2006 at 05:37:43 AM EST

This started as a diary about a story I read in Sky News reporting a story in a French newspaper about Bin Laden's alleged death:

Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden has died of typhoid in Pakistan, according to reports in a regional French newspaper.

The paper quoted one of the country's secret service reports, saying that Saudi Arabia is convinced that Bin Laden died a month ago.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1234892,00.html


According to people in the USA, it's been reported as a rumour on C-SPAN, and now CBS news has reported that "Bin Laden is likely dead". CNN also had a story reporting that Chirac, Putin and Merkel were to be questioned about this rumour during their press conference, but I haven't read anything about their responses yet. Now, this may explain Bush and Musharraf's cryptic comments yesterday during a joint conference when Bush asked Musharra:  "shall we tell them?"

and may also explain why Pakistan decided to make an agreement with Al Qaeda. Karl Rove is said to have promised an October surprise as well.  

Poll
Do you believe Bin Laden is dead
. he never existed 6%
. he's alive and well 6%
. this man has more lives than a cat 0%
. I'll believe it when I see it 86%

Votes: 15
Results | Other Polls
Display:
here is the link to the original French story:

http://www.estrepublicain.fr/zoom/2006092300222348.html

by manon (m@gmail.com) on Sat Sep 23rd, 2006 at 05:47:14 AM EST
You have to admire how "Top Secret" reports end up in the hands of journalists! Frankly I'm not surprised, I know this one guy in the army who comes home sometimes with maps. He doesn't mind showing them to you if you're curious (everyone's curious about bit rolls of paper nearby). And these maps are usually stamped "Confidentiel Déense" in huge letters. He just takes them home to finish off some work and then brings them back the next day, but technically he's not allowed to take them out of the base.

I'm sure there are thousands of guys like him.

by Alex in Toulouse on Sat Sep 23rd, 2006 at 05:56:26 AM EST
this story seems to confirm that the part about the Saudis sending the file to France is true:

PARIS (Reuters) - France's Defense Ministry said on Saturday a secret service report saying al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden had died could not be confirmed but said it would launch an inquiry into the leak of secret documents.

http://ca.today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-09-23T094414Z_01_L23 801953_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-SECURITY-BINLADEN-FRANCE-COL.XML

by manon (m@gmail.com) on Sat Sep 23rd, 2006 at 06:09:12 AM EST
An 'expert' michael Scheuer saying al Quaeda will announce it if bin Laden is dead, that he has gone to Paradise in triumph.
by manon (m@gmail.com) on Sat Sep 23rd, 2006 at 08:11:03 AM EST
so I guess Al Qaeda is a valid news source now?

weird

by manon (m@gmail.com) on Sat Sep 23rd, 2006 at 08:18:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I certainly believe that his death could be manipulated for political purposes, on all sides.

The man is an icon. An icon is a perception somewhat disconnected from reality. And the role of martyr is differently interpreted in the West and East.

For the West, iconic martyrs are people like Kennedy and King, struck down, not in battle, but as 'innocents'. Those who die in battle are heroes, not maryrs.

But in the East, a martyr is more like a hero, submitting to fate.

Either one depends on the respective views of what follows death.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Sep 23rd, 2006 at 09:33:45 AM EST
I don't see how he could be considered a martyr in the eyes of Muslims.  Don't they have to die killing the enemy to receive that crown -- e.g., suicide bombers?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Sat Sep 23rd, 2006 at 10:13:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Bin Laden could be the first person in history martyred by diarrhea.

Do we know who the new Number Two is yet?

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Sep 23rd, 2006 at 10:28:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Haven't we killed the al-Qaeda Number Two about fifty-five times now?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Sat Sep 23rd, 2006 at 10:30:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That is my point. He will be perceived as dying in battle - it doesn't especially matter how he really died.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Sep 23rd, 2006 at 11:28:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yup.

Apparently, to the Bush administration, the counting numbers are 1, many, lots.

;-)

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Sat Sep 23rd, 2006 at 12:40:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Isn't Ayman Al-Zawahiri still at large and a likely successor to OBL?

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. — Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Sep 23rd, 2006 at 03:21:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, I would believe he is next in line both for being the nr 1 target and taking over the position as the "sheikh" of Al-Qaeda.  There are strong indications though that Al-Zawahiri has been running most of the operations almost from the start and that OBL have been more interested in the iconic part of being an Islamic leader.

Still I have to add that until more evidence is put forth I am sceptical to the accuracy of this alleged information.
 

Bitsofnews.com Giving you the latest bits.

by Gjermund E Jansen (gjans1@hotmail.com) on Sat Sep 23rd, 2006 at 03:51:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
He should've been dead five years ago.  We've got the greatest military force in human history, yet, for some reason, we can't find this seven-foot-tall guy attached to a dialysis machine riding around the desert on a camel.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Sat Sep 23rd, 2006 at 04:38:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
LOL, yes you are quite right.

Bitsofnews.com Giving you the latest bits.
by Gjermund E Jansen (gjans1@hotmail.com) on Sat Sep 23rd, 2006 at 04:53:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I thought we killed him(?).  Or was that al-Zarqawi?  Or did we kill both?

I can't keep up anymore.  I just know that we seem to have killed the Number Two in al-Qaeda at least more than ten times.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Sat Sep 23rd, 2006 at 04:35:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, that was Abu Musad Al-Zarqawi, the bogeyman in Iraq.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. — Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Sep 23rd, 2006 at 04:39:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It was the Al-Qaeda leader in Iraq Al-Zarqawi that was killed in a bombing raid by the US forces.  The US tried to kill Ayman Al-Zawahiri with a drone I believe some months ago when he was scheduled to visit a village bordering to Afghanistan, but allegedly managed to kill a number of civilian's instead.

Al-Zawahiri's terrorist activities started in Egypt as the founder and the leader of a militant splinter group from The Muslim Brotherhood called Egyptian Islamic Jihad (EIJ).


Bitsofnews.com Giving you the latest bits.

by Gjermund E Jansen (gjans1@hotmail.com) on Sat Sep 23rd, 2006 at 04:51:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
for your poll, can you add an option: Yes, I believe he is dead, but it's to the government's advantage not to tell.
by Graceland on Sat Sep 23rd, 2006 at 10:47:12 AM EST
indeed, and he won't help as an October surprise unless he is captured / was killed by US troops.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Sat Sep 23rd, 2006 at 01:10:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Or yes, I believe he's dead, and has been for years.

You have a normal feeling for a moment, then it passes. --More--
by tzt (tzt) on Sat Sep 23rd, 2006 at 04:01:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I thought he was reported dead in 2002. Back then the reason given was that after being driven out of his urban base in Afghanistan he lost access to dialisis machines he needed for his kidney problems and had died as a result.

Now it's typhoid... Ho hum.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. — Euripides

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Sep 23rd, 2006 at 04:40:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But you have to admit it defuses any possible 'We killed Bin Laden!' October surprise.

(My guess is he's living in Dubai in a penthouse flat - probably next door to Ken Lay.)

To gain political capital from Bin Laden now, Bush has to organise another 'Here I am ranting into a camera' video opportunity for him. And then report that he's been captured and killed, probably in Afghanistan. Or - more usefully - Iraq.

With this rumour, it's going to be hard to convince anyone. Even if it's done well. (Which at least one of the previous videos notably wasn't.)

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Sep 23rd, 2006 at 07:23:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Most usefully in Iran.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. — Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Sep 23rd, 2006 at 07:27:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah. Indeed.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Sep 23rd, 2006 at 07:39:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The dems really really need to be on every TV tomorrow, saying that The French are Claiming that OBL has died of Natural Causes, and dosen't this make George a complete Failure in the war on terror.

They really need to get this Natural causes  idea on TV as the dominent idea about his death, before the republicans can get their own idea out there.

at best this derails the republican campaign completely,
at worst, this kicks the october surprise off a month early, and gives time for another story to be come dominant later in the campaign.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sat Sep 23rd, 2006 at 07:47:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'll believe it when proof is provided.  

Bitsofnews.com Giving you the latest bits.
by Gjermund E Jansen (gjans1@hotmail.com) on Sat Sep 23rd, 2006 at 12:23:20 PM EST
by Nomad on Sat Sep 23rd, 2006 at 12:26:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Al-Queda is an idea, a set of tactics, and a particular nexus of circumstances.  It doesn't depend on the existence of Bin Laden.

'Tho having a Big, Bad, Boogyman helps keep the foo-foo boiling.


She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Sat Sep 23rd, 2006 at 12:44:59 PM EST
There is a certain whatever of a predicted October "Surprise."

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Sat Sep 23rd, 2006 at 12:50:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
if the French ruined Bush's October surprise, it would just be too ironic.  I bet he really hates French people now.
by manon (m@gmail.com) on Sat Sep 23rd, 2006 at 01:07:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's and interesting twist.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. — Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Sep 23rd, 2006 at 03:22:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And as Alan Moore pointed out in V for Vendetta, ideas are bulletproof.
by IdiotSavant on Sat Sep 23rd, 2006 at 07:02:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by observer393 on Sat Sep 23rd, 2006 at 09:58:55 PM EST


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