Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.

Thursday Open Thread

by In Wales Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 12:38:15 PM EST

Today's Open Thread


Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under.
-H.L. Mencken, writer, editor, and critic (1880-1956)

Poll
Which direction to you see her spinning?
. Clockwise, and only clockwise. 35%
. Clockwise at first, but then I can see her change directions if I concentrate. 44%
. Anti-clockwise at first, but then I can see her change directions if I concentrate. 11%
. Anti-clockwise (also known as counter-clockwise), and only anti-clockwise. 8%
. She's moving? 0%

Votes: 34
Results | Other Polls
Display:
That quote seems to be topical. No idea who the writer is so feel free to point out the error of my ways again!

Only home for 5 minutes from a meeting half way across the country and now off out for subtitled cinema! It's that rubbish film, 'Knocked Up', though... but, subtitles. At the cinema. A rare treat.

I hope you've all had a good day...

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 12:40:56 PM EST
H.L. Mencken -- Wikipedia is your friend!

Not more knocked-up commie space cockroaches? Chocolate ones?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 01:07:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Chocolate ones?

One more entry in the log of "Things I really wish I'd never Googled."


"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 01:17:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
perhaps they are edible after eating Miracle fruit than just coating them with chocolate.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 01:31:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
should be,  "rather than just coating them with chocolate."

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 01:32:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 02:20:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I see the U.S. budget deficit came in at a five year year low at $163 billion and the trade deficit for August was at a 7 month low.
The currency market doesn't seem to be too impressed. One dollar buys 70.3 euro cents. Woe is me!

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 01:00:43 PM EST
I know I'm not a financial expert but everything I read says things are gonna get a lot worse for a long time. Probably need to move cash into euros right now.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 01:03:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My cash is all long moved and in euros. But those are reserves for the future. My income, which I would like to cover my expenses, is all in dollars.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 01:16:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Drove halfway around london to see if I could find a left hand drive car for my move to Bulgaria. It's odd because some people say LH cars are cheaper in the UK whilst others say they're cheaper elsewhere. Anybody know anything definitive ?

Anyway my task failed. I may have to change my ideas about how much I can spend cos I'm really not finding anything in the price range I wanted. Or I am but it's moon distance milage, really ratty etc etc.

anyway, on a brighter note, the deal on my flat is due to go through either tomorrow or monday.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 01:01:28 PM EST
Do you have army-dumps in the UK? Here in Belgium sometimes we can buy good jeeps or vans....

The struggle of man against tyranny is the struggle of memory against forgetting.(Kundera)
by Elco B (elcob at scarlet dot be) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 02:53:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, I'm not aware of any. But surely ex-army stuff has been run into the ground ?

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 02:55:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well used, yes, but usually very well maintained.

And given your requirements for a solid 4WD it's worth a thought.

I've only heard of Witham, but I'm sure there are other sources:

http://www.witham-sv.com/tender/lots.php

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 03:35:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If you can find a place, the government is absolutely paranoid about selling a dangerous vehicle off, so they are usually fully serviced before being sold off.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 03:45:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Of course, having slept on it, I realise that hte British MoD will only have RH drive cars. No use whatsoever.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Oct 12th, 2007 at 06:11:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Off to hear Steven Pinker on The Stuff of Thought. If they're selling the book I'll probably get a signed copy.

We have met the enemy, and it is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 01:05:00 PM EST
In May 2006 I wrote this diary: Racism in Flanders (Belgium) about racist murders in Antwerp.

The trial of the murderer was in the headlines of the news here every day. Today we have a verdict.

flandersnews.be - Hans Van Themsche found guilty

Thu 11/10/07 - The jury of the Antwerp Court of Assizes has found Hans Van Themsche guilty on all counts. Last year in a racist frenzy he went on the rampage and shot two people dead. A third person was badly injured.

The jury ruled that Van Themsche was accountable and knew what he was doing.

It added that his acts were driven by racist motives.

This is the first time in Belgian legal history that a defendant has been found guilty of murder motivated by racism.

The Belgian Government's anti-racism centre has welcomed the outcome.

The centre's lawyer Tom De Meester yesterday said that the jury's verdict had enormous social importance.

He added:"The jury has made it clear that racism cannot be tolerated.

flandersnews.be - Life for Hans Van Themsche

Thu 11/10/07 - The 19-year-old Hans Van Themsche, who killed two people and injured a third in a racist frenzy will serve a life sentence. On Thursday the jury of the Antwerp Court of Assizes together with the three magistrates decided that the youngster would serve the heaviest possible sentence.


The struggle of man against tyranny is the struggle of memory against forgetting.(Kundera)
by Elco B (elcob at scarlet dot be) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 01:50:21 PM EST
Russian press pokes fun at Sarkozy after visit - Yahoo! News

...
 Almost every newspaper began their reports of Wednesday meetings between Sarkozy and Putin with Sarkozy happily telling his host of finally achieving his dream of waking to see Red Square -- a story that appeared to leave Putin cold.

"It remains unknown whether Putin has had any such experience and whether he could truly understand his guest's feelings," the state Rossiyskaya Gazeta daily said.

The Kommersant and Izvestia dailies meanwhile irreverently wondered how Sarkozy's dream had come true, noting that the National Hotel where Sarkozy stayed did not afford the view.

The Kommersant newspaper concluded that he must have slept in a bar on Red Square.



The struggle of man against tyranny is the struggle of memory against forgetting.(Kundera)
by Elco B (elcob at scarlet dot be) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 02:17:35 PM EST
If I may be serious for a moment, the psychology behind all of this is absolutely fascinating.  I don't even know where to begin.  I'm not going to psychoanalyze Putin, but it's ironic how the media chides him for acting like a Tsar but themselves act like gossipy courtiers going on about where a vistor slept last night and what jokes were told...

And to return from seriousness, I'm sure the look on Putin's face after Sarko mused about waking up in the kremlin was just deliciously cold.  hehehe

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 02:55:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Can you psychoanalyse this picture?

Hint: Sarko was wearing 5 cm high heels.      



The struggle of man against tyranny is the struggle of memory against forgetting.(Kundera)
by Elco B (elcob at scarlet dot be) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 03:13:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What kind of 5cm high heels?
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 03:29:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe this kind:



"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

by Melanchthon on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 03:47:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Guess this is why Sarko looks so pained in that picture!
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 03:49:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
well if it is those shoes, he's probably wrestling with Izzy for them just out of shot

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 03:59:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
He should have just worn boots and some fashionable denim. Then again I don't have a Napoleon complex.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:06:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]


"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 03:47:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
During the presidential campaign, Le Canard Enchaîné pointed out he was wearing 10cm ones... have his ego-propping needs diminished?

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 07:09:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Presenting... The Axis of Evil Cookbook:

   
   
Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at PhotobucketThe Axis of Evil Cookbook
by Gill Partington

When they're not actively attempting to develop weapons of mass destruction, 'Axis of Evil' countries such as Iraq, Iran and North Korea are busy enjoying their region's finest dishes. And their 'Axis of Somewhat Evil' cohorts, such as Cuba and Syria, are at it too. With over one hundred recipes, from soups and salads to meat dishes and desserts, this unique cookbook includes snapshots of each country as well as profiles of famous leaders. Regional recipes appear alongside dictators' favourite dishes - from Kim Jong-Il's ruthless appetite for shark fin soup to Saddam's celebrated rack of fresh roasted gazelle. Full of cultural anecdotes, political insight and delectable recipes, "The Axis of Evil Cookbook" is an intriguing and forbidden treat.

REVIEWS:
'Both tasteless and edifying.' Valentine Pickle

Hat tip to The Arabist, who says it's already available on Amazon.co.uk, but not the US version....

Perhaps not an original idea, though, or maybe the author had an earlier online version; I found this, apparently dating back to January of 2004.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 03:02:19 PM EST
I hope it includes mazgouf....
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 03:04:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The 'original' Axis of Evil Cookbook (a free copyleft download) was a follow-up to nthposition's 100 Poets Against the War series of anthologies, which were also free and copyleft.
by valstevenson (val@kill_all_spam_nthposition.com) on Wed Oct 24th, 2007 at 11:19:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hey, everyone, come join in on the "Pile on the stupid Economist" hoe-down!

First off,

Russia Blog has given it's "Shoe Award" (I think this is how Creationists say "you suck the most) to ...

The Economist.

The recent conspiracy yarn produced by The Economist entitled, "Russia Under Putin: The Making of a Neo-KGB State," is at best a Bond movie starring George Lazenby. More amazing still is the fact that just a few months ago, Dr. Daniel Thorniley, a prominent Russia expert and the Vice President of The Economist's own consulting wing-- the Economist Intelligence Unit (EIU)--castigated The Wall Street Journal and CNN, for their bizarro take on Russia:
"More rubbish is written and spoken about Russia than any other country on the planet Earth."
Incongruously, the timeline-challenged article noted above makes The Economist sound less like the EIU and more like quacktogenarian Lyndon LaRouche and his hyperbolic Executive Intelligence Review. Meanwhile, Exile.ru does a fantastic job of debunking their lies in the highly-recommended critique "The Economist: The World's Sleaziest Magazine". The article includes great insights, such as:

"Let's leave aside for now the very strange decision to anchor an anti-silovik story to Kondaurov - a former KGB general who was a top Yukos executive (respect to the PR firm that helped arrange that)."
As one Russian reader e-mailed to Russia Blog upon reading The Economist piece:

"These KGB guys were the only educated adults left who didn't hijack the money wagon in the 90s. But think about it, who else in that age group is qualified to manage the country? Even Saint Khodorkovsky had KGB guys on his payroll. Many are highly educated, multi-lingual managers, left without jobs, but taught to aim high. Still, if you meet a lot of the old KGB guys, it is sort of like meeting Ivy League graduates. They are less impressive up close and it's hard to believe that any of them could organize anything much larger than a dinner party..."
Again, we are pleased to present this year's Shoe Award to The Economist. As a further token of goodwill, we are providing you with a free copy of Executive Intelligence Review, which is evidently not in heavily circulation in London. Apparently, The Economist seems to have cornered their market niche these days.

Here's he article in the Economist that really got their goat.  

The making of a neo-KGB state

Here's that fab article from the eXile, should any of you have recently appeared from your cave.

The Economist: The World's Sleaziest Magazine

Apparently all this attention has forced the Economist to ... get ready for this folks ... make, in Bob Amsterdam's words, "a long-overdue call to jettison the language of the democracy debate."  

That's right.  They are so pissed with RUSSIA being a democracy while they are trying to promote democracy, they are swearing off the word democracy altogether.  Oh, also, there is some Euro-bashing in there too.

The end of "democracy"

They say:
Democracy all too often means buying votes, rigging elections and mob rule.

Whoever can dig up the most quotes from the Economist touting democracy gets a pony!

Oh, and by the way, Bob, it's not long overdue.  I wrote about this a year and a half ago.  gah!  grrrrr....

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 03:25:41 PM EST
Just saw this on Dkos - fascinating!

Right Brain v Left Brain | Herald Sun

THE Right Brain vs Left Brain test ... do you see the dancer turning clockwise or anti-clockwise?

If clockwise, then you use more of the right side of the brain and vice versa.

Most of us would see the dancer turning anti-clockwise though you can try to focus and change the direction; see if you can do it.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 03:29:14 PM EST
My brother sent me that yesterday.

I'm left-brained, acc'd to this.  But I can easily see it move in either direction.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 03:41:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I simply cannot make it go anti-clockwise. I like the fact that I'm a "feelings" person who obviously never uses logic.

Wee bit black and white methinks.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 03:43:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
At first, I couldn't see it turn anti-clockwise either. Then I focused on a detail like her foot's shadow and it started to turn anti-clockwise.

Funnily, when I clicked on it to save it, it changed direction. I suppose focusing on a logical/technical task made my left brain kick in..

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

by Melanchthon on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 03:51:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
very strange....at first she span clockwise, on and on, and i thought that was going to be it, then suddenly, with no seam-moment, off she went the other way, then just as unpredictably, turned again.

what i find most interesting was to try and witness the change-over sensation in my brain, but it seems totally friction-free.

there seems to be a 60/40% preponderance to clockwise.

fascinating...

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 06:33:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't understand.  why didn't she kick the ball in the goal?

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 06:57:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
At first I thought:

"If you watch the dancer's bouncing foot you'll see (I think) that the image slowly changes and then reverses direction."

But I watched and...no change.  Then I looked away and back: she's dancing the other way!

Then, if I looked at the text on the left and not the picture I could catch the shifts--and then I pondered how it worked, watched the text and kept the image on the periphery of my vision--the image seemed to be skating along, wobbling the way those speed skaters do.

And then, I could even get the image--for a moment or two--to turn one way and then the other.  Very clever!

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 03:48:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have to say (for the sake of science) that she was dancing clockwise first time I watched--and then I made (my brain watch) her go the other way.

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 03:57:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Family test: We all saw her dancing clockwise to start with.

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:13:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yep, and havent answered yet because I still can't make her spin the other way.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:21:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Look at the text, not the picture (that's my suggestion.)

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:31:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
nope, still definitely only clockwise.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:54:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's like those 3D pictures...until I could see them I thought there was some big conspiracy where everyone was saying they saw something that wasn't there.

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:56:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Aha, put my hand over most of the picture till I could only see the foot and the shadow, and suddenly POP, took my hand away and for a couple of seconds it turned the other way, til I thought "Wow it does actually work" then I "saw the whole thing and pop it was gone.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:02:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I've looked at it about 4 separate times now.  3 times I immediately saw clockwise, the 4th I saw anti-clockwise first.  Mostly I can refocus and swap directions but it was harder to do when I got very tired. Good to see everyone has been well entertained in my absence!
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 09:21:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I had the same exact experience.  She was going clockwise at first, and I tried consciously to make her go the other way, and it didn't work at all.  But I looked away at the text, and there was a bounce or a blink, and when I looked back she was going the other way.

Which led me to believe that it's a trick -- maybe the image changes?  It doesn't make sense otherwise.

I looked at it for while longer, looked away a few times, watched her switch directions a few more times, and this time paid attention to whether she was standing on her left leg or her right.  And that changes too, so I still thought the image itself must change.

But now I've stared at it a good long time, and I've been able to actually focus enough to see her switch directions a lot more often, almost but not entirely whenever I want to.

I am still not convinced that the image doesn't change at some point, though, because I can't see both images at the same time, and usually with these perception-switching tricks I can.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:21:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I checked the file. No trick. It's a short loop.

I also tried it on an assortment of willing victims, who all saw something different. At the same time.

Clockwise for me, by default, but I can make her switch by looking at her lower foot.

Trying to make her switch by looking at her arms made me feel ill.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:24:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, lower foot works for me too.
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:28:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't think the image changes.  It's all in the feet, and what you concentrate on, I think.  If I look at the lowest shadow that comes in and out of the frame, she moves clockwise, but if I look at the foot in the center of the bottom of the image and look up, she moves counter-clockwise.  That how I make it change.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:30:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So far we're all seeing clockwise.  Any anti-clockwise people around?  (If there are none, that would suggest that ET is strongly one way--and I'd like to see a scientific explanation of how the image works...any links much appreciated!  Thing is, in the text of the article it states: "Most of us would see the dancer turning anti-clockwise.")


Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:35:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, I think it goes without saying that the denizens of ET are not most people. :-)

(Although for sitemeter purposes, some possibly might wish that they were....)

I think the count is one anti-clockwise and everyone else clockwise, so far.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:37:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think we're all clockwise so far.  Did I miss a comment?

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:49:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
All of mine.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:50:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I mean, to clarify, when I first see it it is always going counter clockwise. But I can also see it go clockwise if I want to.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:52:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah!  Yes!

(I just checked: she was going counter clockwise in your honour.)

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:59:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I can only see it counter clockwise. I'm left handed if that has anything to do with it.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:02:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Are there any brain specialists aroung?



Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:09:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
a dog sniffing something on the ground?

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 07:14:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Do you ask that because you can't find your dalmatian in the picture?

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 07:19:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I ask because I see a dalmation oblivious to the fact that it is about to be eaten by a huge snake.

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 07:22:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Counter-clockwise at first. Took me some time, but now I can change from one view to the other pretty fast.

"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles." Sun Tzu
by Turambar (sersguenda at hotmail com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 11:05:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thing is, in the text of the article it states: "Most of us would see the dancer turning anti-clockwise."
Ah, but we all know that ET is not populated by the most common elements. Tomorrow I will make everyone at work look at this thing. A whole pile of scientists and engineers. It shall be most interesting to see if they all fall within the easy expectation of 'left-brained', or if there are other things afoot, and the kind of work that we do in fact requires/benefits from a large amount of 'right-brain' creativity.
by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:42:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm wondering if there's a bias towards "right brain"--maybe from the designers.  If they say "most people see anti-clockwise" but, in fact, most people see "clockwise", then most people will feel special--plus right brain is sorta associated with seeing the big picture, tuning into emotions, and other elements that I think most humans would like to think they are good at.

So...

Er...

Don't forget to report back!

(And anyone with links to those who designed this--mucho appreciatum!)

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:46:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
huh.  I guess I'm not part of "we all."  Fine, have your little clique.  

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:49:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh oh! Let's not alienate out anti-clockwise contignent! Maybe we need some ET Equality directive, forbidding discrimination based on brain-sidedness?
by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:57:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'll draft one up. You'll each need to draft your own for implementation and compliance within your own countries though.
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 09:22:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Clockwise is the only thing I'm getting. I'm left-handed, I wonder how or if that factors in?

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (m<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 06:11:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
how about eye dominance? I'm right eye dominant and it goes clockwise

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 06:21:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No luck.  I'm left-eyed, and it goes clockwise first for me too.
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 06:30:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, I'm left eye dominant as well.  We have SO much in common.
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 09:24:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hah! For me, it goes clockwise. Took me a while to make it change directions at all. Which is quite funny, because all my life I have been very good at logic, math, science, etc. Huh. I guess I'm in the wrong field!
OMG! Maybe I'm a left-brained person trapped in a right-brained head! Or, um, the other way around? Which way does it go, again?
by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 03:59:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You are a whole-brain person trapped in a split-brain world--and your whole brain decided that at a certain point in time it was more useful to earn life credits (aka money or equivalents) by developing some left brain skills.  (But the right brain is in first--I think that's  why it makes a difference which direction you see first.)

Now I want to know who designed the image and how they explain the mechanism.

I think it is to do with assuming direction to a black shape--the shape is two D but we assume solidity, so one half of the brain assumes a certain spin....

...uh oh...I just thought of quantum mechanics and that means I'll be leapt upon by left-brain types.

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:05:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I originally saw it turn counter clockwise, but I suck at math and enjoy creative and sensual pursuits.  However, I soon saw it turn clockwise, and began making it go both ways.

I've just decided I'm ambicerebral.  If that's a word...

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:09:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Clockwise, clockwise, clockwise...

Until I concentrated only on the foot she pivots on, and there was a shift and she was going anti-clockwise. It soon went back to clockwise though.

<cough> Does this really prove anything?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:26:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Uh, I doubt it.
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:29:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It proves something about the brain.  But what?

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:35:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]


The struggle of man against tyranny is the struggle of memory against forgetting.(Kundera)
by Elco B (elcob at scarlet dot be) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:40:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
She's going to be very dizzy.
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:41:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nope, I am.

The struggle of man against tyranny is the struggle of memory against forgetting.(Kundera)
by Elco B (elcob at scarlet dot be) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:53:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hey, I can make her spin left-right-left-right if I blink in time!

Ach, now I can't.

I have to look away from the image, though, to make it change--or else (and so it's a brain thing) if I lose concentration she reverts...

....I can see her foot going around as I type...it's going anti-clockwise...and I can make it flip!

one thing happens and then the other: somehow the brain is choosing to see A before B; with the flip it sees B before A and the direction changes.

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:54:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Definitely clock-wise for me.

We have met the enemy, and it is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:58:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is there an equivalent comments section for another blog where they're all typing:

"Yep, definitely counter clockwise for me."

and there's a lone voice saying,

"Well I see it going clockwise."

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:01:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well we're mostly going to the left, it's probably a tory site where everyones going right.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:03:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Whereas Poemless being to the left of all of us, is just trying to stay balanced ;-)

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:05:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
OMG.  Am I so far to the left that I'm on the right?!!  Help!!  

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:08:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thing is, I see spinning "clockwise" as spinning to the right...because I imagine a start point at the back (or at twelve) and the movement is...to the right, though if you start at the front (or at six) the movement is to the left.  

I think that means you are so far to the left you're to the right, or you're so far to the right you're to the left, or, um, you grew up with clocks that ran backwards?

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:12:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, to make an honest confession...

The only thing I really failed at in school was learning to tell time.  (I grew up with digital clocks.)  I stayed after school and cried in the 3rd grade because I just couldn't understand how to tell time.  I failed a test.  I had intensive all night study sessions with my father.  Eventually I figured it out, but for a while everyone was freaking out because I was in all these gifted kids classes but couldn't tell time.  It was my dirty little secret.

No clue if there is connection there.

I think my head might just be on wrong.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:28:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I saw her going anti-clockwise first, too, and almost had a fight with Migeru about this. Poemless, I am horrible at telling directions but always within about ten minutes telling time no matter how long away from a clock I've been, so I don't think there is any relation between these two.

I saw an earlier comment about 3D pics. You can train your brain to see these things faster. If you give me a 3D pic I am able to see what it is in less than five seconds. I just simply go cross-eyed and stare through the picture, and let the rest assemble itself. I love them. I can do a similar thing with different patterns, like upholstery on an airplane seat (yep, I can make it 3D!!!) I used the same principle while looking at this spinning woman... and it works! She started switching, like a pendulum. Slaloming, really. Try it!

"If you cannot say what you have to say in twenty minutes, you should go away and write a book about it." Lord Brabazon

by Barbara on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:48:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks!

Yes, I can do those 3D pictures easily too (once I figured them out), and I do the same with patterns!!  Curtains, shadows, graphic patterns have provided hours of dissociative pastime for me.  It's almost like pulling focus on a camera, really.  

Yay.  I'm not insane.  

So, perhaps it has more to do with the ability to shift perspective (literally and figuratively) easily than with being "right" or "left" brained?  Interestingly, I would associate that skill with the "creative" mind and not the "logical" one.  

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:58:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, I agree. I share your enthusiasm about not being insane :D!

Easily shifting focus is probably well said. I think it might be caused by easier communication between left and right brain that women have (the corpus callosum works better for us, apparently. Migeru reminded me of my psychology classes ;), credit to him.)

So maybe this little experiment shows that we are actually using both sides of the brain fairly well??? :) (Nothing wrong with a bit of ego-boosting on this apparently very right-brained blog... LOL)


"If you cannot say what you have to say in twenty minutes, you should go away and write a book about it." Lord Brabazon

by Barbara on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 06:25:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think it might be caused by easier communication between left and right brain that women have...

Scientific proof that this site has a male bias?   lol.

So maybe this little experiment shows that we are actually using both sides of the brain fairly well???

Like I said, I'm going with "ambi-cerebral."  (I thought I'd just made up this term, but some googling -yes, I can google, Mig- reveals its previous, though I suspect illegitimate, existence.)


"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 06:34:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not that ET is a right-brained blog, it's that most of the left-brainers are deeply involved in discussions about economic this and financial that and haven't noticed the "Open Thread" (or the face among the beans.)

The fact that Chris noticed--after having no doubt read and commented on economic this and financial that--explains his reaction to the image.

The fact that those who have looked have tried to see it spinning the other way shows we are eager to learn.

The fact that more than one of us suspected that the image had been manipulated in some way shows that some of us have a latent susception to conspiracy theories.  

Which we will try and debunk, of course.

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 07:01:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So...which way are these turning?



Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 06:15:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Iknew this one .. it is great.. and absolutely icnredible..

i see it both ways. depending ont hem oment ... it is very nice..

but again is about the primary visual cortex... and noone is so stupid to claim that it has to do with something about the right or left brain...

a pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 06:24:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, I guess I am stupid enough... ;(
(Runs away, crying).

"If you cannot say what you have to say in twenty minutes, you should go away and write a book about it." Lord Brabazon
by Barbara on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 06:30:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Heh, it's true: the green and red vibrate and confuse the...brain!  So it is a brain thing, but not left/right.

Here's another optical illusion.

And here's one that is definitely (they say) "right brain/left brain".

Hidden Face Illusion - Optical Illusion

Can you find the human face which is hidden in these coffee beans?

Doctors have concluded that if you can find the face in the coffee beans in 3 seconds, the right half of your brain is better developed than most people. If you find the face between 3 seconds and 1 minute, your right half of the brain is developed normally. If you find the face between 1 minute and 3 minutes, then the right half of your brain is functioning slowly and you need to eat more protein. If you have not found the face after 3 minutes, the advice is to look for more of this type of exercise to make that part of the brain stronger!

I'd say it took me about a minute and yes: there really is a face in amongst those beans!

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 06:42:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
there is deep stuff about that.. very deep stuff.. proejction on the visual cortex of higher cortex functions...

it is really amazing research...

I got oa two hour fullt reatment about brain implication of this kind of visual perceptions..a dn the reaction times to them...

And I have also read simialr things ina ntrhopology about presenting the same kind of visual percetpion to different cultures with other learnt parametres of perception...

really amazing

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 06:47:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Links or book titles or authors!

And your diary about magic, of course.

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 06:53:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
One working in Weizmann.. oo hisname.. gee.. what was his name...Amiram I think....

this is a good way to start..a s good as any other

http://www.weizmann.ac.il/brain/images/ImageGallery.html

or..

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:yAGF13wXIA4J:www.dandavidprize.org/pr/2004_EnglishGrinvald0404. doc+weizmann+institute+brain+research+amiram&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&client=opera

A pleasrue

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Fri Oct 12th, 2007 at 10:55:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
About 20 seconds here...

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 06:50:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Here's another colour illusion.  Look at the pink dots and they flash on and off in a clockwise motion.  Look at the cross in the centre and there's a green dot making its way round in a clockwise motion.



Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 06:51:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The purple/cyan effect is the same effect as the green/red spinning disks. it's shadows in your colour perception

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 07:28:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
as soon as I worked out what I was meant to be looking for POP, although I spent far too long looking for the wrong thing

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 07:16:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I found it in less than a second. I don't know what this means. I should have been an artist?

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 07:19:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think it means you are the reincarnation of a god from one of seven regions.  If you know the bean person--or if you realise that it is, in fact, a picture of you--then you are probably all the gods from all the seven regions.



Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 07:26:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
20 arms would be awesome. I'll pass on the nine heads though, I'm an easy going guy but there would still be too many arguments between myselves.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Fri Oct 12th, 2007 at 03:51:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
ewwww, that is actually quite freaky. Face looking up like that.
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 09:30:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
With how many different photos of random coffee-bean "arrangements" will this work?

We are told there's a face hidden, so we find it?

Is everyone seeing the same face?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Oct 12th, 2007 at 02:24:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't see a face after staring at this things for about 5mn. What kind of a face is it? Like a simple smiley, or a real face with 3d features? Where are the eyes?
by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Fri Oct 12th, 2007 at 02:33:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's a real face, not a "face shape" made by an arrangement of the beans.

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Fri Oct 12th, 2007 at 03:22:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Same here. Barbara is giving me a hard time about it.

We have met the enemy, and it is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Oct 13th, 2007 at 05:30:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Everyone is seeing the same face.  It is the size of 1 coffee bean.

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Fri Oct 12th, 2007 at 03:24:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Where is it? Could you circle the face and post the pic??
by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Fri Oct 12th, 2007 at 03:32:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
count approx. 5 beans from the lower left corner! :-)
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 12th, 2007 at 03:39:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Got it! Thanks!!
by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Fri Oct 12th, 2007 at 04:09:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Start at the bottom row, look at the individual beans, move from bottom left to bottom right, about two inches in you'll find a ball head instead of a bean (in the second row up from the bottom more or less)

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Fri Oct 12th, 2007 at 03:43:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Then it's rather like Where's Wally? (or Waldo...)

Seeing the damn thing also rather depends on the state of your eyesight and the quality of your screen... Mine are dimmer than they used to be... ;)

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Oct 12th, 2007 at 04:54:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And indeed, the source of this posts it as an optical illusion, and actually compares it to the game of Where is Waldo?

Only in the comment thread does the poster claim "Doctors have concluded etc...", and gives no source or reference to back the claim.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Oct 12th, 2007 at 05:12:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Everyone will see the same face, there is only one face in it.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sat Oct 13th, 2007 at 05:34:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This was funny! I thought at first it was supposed to put together an imaginary face... I looked for a large face! Then I saw it... great stuff. But instructions should be more precise. ;)


"If you cannot say what you have to say in twenty minutes, you should go away and write a book about it." Lord Brabazon
by Barbara on Fri Oct 12th, 2007 at 01:07:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But the point of the exercise is to see how you interpret ambiguous instructions!

We have met the enemy, and it is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Oct 13th, 2007 at 05:33:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So what does the video tell us about the Face on Mars?

We have met the enemy, and it is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Oct 13th, 2007 at 05:28:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

geeee.. I was talking about the scientists who believe that.. or the people who pushed that... not the people who read it.. actually from a  reader perspective.. it makes perfect sense...

gee.. I should shut up sometimes :)

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 06:45:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Red and green...

There was a Clash single, Tommy Gun...

Maybe I've got the wrong single, but there was one--I'm sure it was by the Clash--and when you shook the cover the words smeared off the page!



Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 06:32:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Okay, this is a migraine (or epilepsy) recipe. Have one coming on at the moment (spent way too much time in front of the screen today), but from what I gather they are turning all in different directions. What do you see?

"If you cannot say what you have to say in twenty minutes, you should go away and write a book about it." Lord Brabazon
by Barbara on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 06:32:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I see wheels turning, but if I watch a wheel it stops...while all the others turn...sneaky!

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 06:54:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not turning, it's breathing. Aaaargh, it's noticed me. It's coming out of the scr.......

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 06:35:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
  1.  When I just move my eyes over it, the ones that seem to be moving are going counter-clockwise.  Then they don't.  Then they do.  Then I go cross-eyed and want to vomit.

  2.  But if I look right at it, they stop moving altogther.

  3.  When I try to ignore it, it begins breathing and writhing and staring at me like an 18-headed monster.


"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 06:40:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My GOD!  IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 08:52:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm arbitrarily asigning the start point as 3 o'clock, because that is the point where things emerge into view in front of you. so everything is heading to the left.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:35:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We need a poll! Can one of the FPers slap a poll on this open thread? Must. Generate. Statistics.
by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:06:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Done.
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:12:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Crap.  Preview is your friend.  Formatting should be cleaned up now.
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:15:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
thanks
by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:22:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Definitely. No idea how anyone could see anything else.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:03:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This one's going clockwise. It's not the same one that's on Kos.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:05:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
LOL!

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:08:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Now I seem to be able to change it just by  moving the cursor around the picture of the dancer. Oh well, back to serious stuff, like finishing poemless' diary on Putin.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:11:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Both Elaine and I can make her turn either way depending on where we focus.

How does it work?

hint: the brain hates ambiguity

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 08:56:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's very weird -- I see it going clockwise if I look at it and that is so no matter how much I focus. However, if I look at it peripherally or am reading the text next to it, it goes anti-clockwise.

I must have a strange mind. :)

'It depends on which research report you read,'says Hattie, 'and sorry about this, but I do tend to believe the ones that suit me.'

by JQL (deinikoi at gmail dot com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 04:49:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Basically, I can only see it go clockwise...
Unless... I apply the concentrative power known as "hitting refresh" which naturally enough disrupts the timing of the gif loop (slows it down) at which point I see it go anti-clockwise for a bit...
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:39:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Started off anti-clockwise then after a spin or so goes clockwise.

Never continues in either direction for long.

In fact, I find it difficult to believe it doesn't have random switching built in....

But it's really interesting comparing ET'ers comments - - and the left brain/right brain stuff on the site - to their personae as it comes across in my accumulated experience of Diaries and comments...

Which is probably exactly what we are all thinking in relation to everyone else.

"Uh huh, that figures...".

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:43:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Uh huh, that figures...".

Yeah, the similarities between you, LEP and I were always striking...

;)

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:48:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Strangely I find it easier to make it go the other way if I look at the screen at an angle.

what does that tell you?

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:50:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Almost everyone sees it clockwise at first, Chris. Look at the poll.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Oct 12th, 2007 at 02:35:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Some people beleive that stuff for real????

I mean it is an itneresting exercise on visual recognization, the visual priamry systems and their consequent projections..a dn of course about the projection of otehr areas of the cortex on the visual primary cortex....

But left brain vs right brain???? are they kidding or somethin?

I promise this comemnt has nothing to do with the fact that I do not see itmoving at all... nro clockwise nor anticlockwise...

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 06:21:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But left brain vs right brain???? are they kidding or somethin?

Yup, kc, I think you're "right" again, je je je!

Interesting how people so love these tests they don't question the science behind them (or the journalistic transmission of the science).

Oh dear, now I'm being left-brained...

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Oct 12th, 2007 at 02:42:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, I don't think I know enough to properly question the 'science' behind them. On the other hand, I never take them entirely seriously either. Sometimes, it's just time to enjoy, and to make some statistics, without any sort of rigorous methodology. Because, fascinating as these brain thingies might be, I have more important things to think about!

Didn't we just the other day have some article about how people find claims about brains more believable if the are accompanied by a colored picture of a brain? There we also have the associated annoying tendency of 'proving' already known things with an MRI picture. You know, the stupid articles of the kind: "People have long said that having their nose hairs pulled out with tweezers makes them angry and annoyed. Now scientists have proved this with MRI imaging! People really are getting angry, not just imagining it!" As if there was some kind of objective neurological activity that is 'anger', or some other emotional whatever, and if the MRI doesn't confirm, then you are not really angry, but just imagining it.

Still, spinning brain images are fun things!

by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Fri Oct 12th, 2007 at 03:12:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I love the nose hair example!

I don't know what science is behind the dancer, either. I tend to think it's in the optical illusion category, though, rather than the left/right brain dichotomy. But what I tend to think is Not Science™.

I do find it fascinating how easily people accept a veneer of brain science (cf the accompanying picture example) and are ready to start categorising themselves and others on a very slim basis.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Oct 12th, 2007 at 04:41:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Because it's easy, and makes them feel as though they know something. Science gets dumbed down too much to the point that people go bleating about x,y,z being scientifically proven, just as astrology accurately describes how their day, week and month is going to pan out. Same class of 'science'.

People like to be able to explain why some things are as they are.  Why not use flimsy brain science to attribute traits?  Skin colour seems to be an acceptable enough way of categorising for many people.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Oct 12th, 2007 at 04:49:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Same class of 'science'

That's not something I dare to say round here... ;)

I wouldn't compare this to categorisation on the basis of colour, race, gender, etc, though -- which are social hierarchy sub-categories. These tests with their veneer of brain science seem to appeal to the highly educated and concern personal, possibly innate, dispositions. Yes, maybe a question of reassuring oneself, like an IQ test.

I'm in trouble, because the dancer says I'm right-brained and the coffee beans say I'm left-brained. D'oh, the headache!

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Oct 12th, 2007 at 05:25:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Gosh, wish I could have stayed around for the fun.
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 12th, 2007 at 03:40:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Apparently in the USA today is national LGBT coming out day. I read about it on Pam's House blend where she has a thread asking for gay people to come out and for straight people to stand up and create atmospheres that are supportive.

Yet reading it, I had a moment where I thought, "no". why ? Cos I'm transgendered and the one thing I want is invisibility. I don't want to "pass" a casual glance, I want to be unquestionably, socially undeniably female. I don't want to be "out", I just want to be.

Of course, I'm out here. At the time I first wrote about it, it never occured to me that anybody might assume I was born female (aka a Day-One'er). It has also been useful for me to write about something that, obviously, matters so much to me and receive a friendly hearing.

And whilst I was transitioning, everybody at work knew (and some had problems with it) and all my friends knew, and some of them had problems too and we are no longer close (or even friends).

So I have been "out". But I try not to wear it as a badge. and I wonder about all the gays that don't want to wear a badge either, they don't want to be gay so much as they just want to be. They don't want to be defined by who they sleep with.

And I guess that's what being out is all about. We live in times where we can't just be. I never could and never will just be. But by being out now, we work for a time where others can. We are the ones who have to work for the peace others may come to enjoy.

So...today, just this once, I'll wear the badge. I'm lucky, in the UK others fought for my peace. But, if at some remove I can help stand up for those who cannot imagine peace, then today this is what I do.

I am Helen. I am a transgendered woman.

(sorry if that's a bit melodramatic but I didn't know how to do it properly)

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 03:35:15 PM EST
I think "coming out" day is more about supporting those who have/want to, etc. and less about telling you you have to come out.  

I don't want to be "out", I just want to be.

I think we all understand that.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 03:45:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
From my viewpoint, transgender issues/concerns have little in common with gay issues beyond the lack of social acceptance.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:12:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Susan Stryker has a short answer

What does Aravosis, as a gay man, have in common with a little girl whose mother gave her HIV in utero, or a heterosexual African man who contracted HIV from a female prostitute, or a junkie living on the streets of Bangkok, Thailand? Presumably, a common interest in ending AIDS. And what might he have in common with transgender people? Some sense that a person's suitability for employment had something to do with their ability to do the job?

But the idea that all gay people are "straight-acting" and therefore not subject to restrictions on hetero-normativity is also ridiculous. A man having a picture of his husband on a desk is non gender-conforming. A lesbian can be thrown out of a ladies toilet for being too butch.

Gay identity politics was dealt with so long ago that people forgot it was ever an issue. So don't say that sexuality and gender identity are not issues that are parallel and independent, they intersect in all sorts of ways. Remove gender transgression and you leave a huge great hole in gay protections.


keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:45:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So don't say that sexuality and gender identity are not issues that are parallel and independent, they intersect in all sorts of ways.

Aha, double negative. Whoops. I meant...

Gender identity and sexuality are not parallel and independent, they intersect in all sorts of ways.


keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:58:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"LGBT" and the way the acronym is typically used, to me, implies near total equivalence to all four identities/realities/categories.

On one hand I really dislike the artificial divisions created by identity politics, when all humans face extreme pressure to conform to a very specific cultural standard, but on the other hand when it comes to something like coming out, it seems like such a different process for all four categories.

I realize the point you were trying to make in your parent post could apply to almost anyone, in some sense, but seeing the term "LGBT" with "coming out day" just seemed...incongruous in some way.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:33:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"LGBT" and the way the acronym is typically used, to me, implies near total equivalence to all four identities/realities/categories.

the difficulty I have with that statement is that it's darned close to the Arovoisis position of saying that there's a descending order of leigitimacy. Primacy is given, of course, to Gay, where gay = gay men. Then lesbian because they're kindo of like gay men, but only women. Then bisexuals, who are really heteros trying to have it both ways  and then we get into the really wacko people who are always trying to gatecrash and spoil our party.

that is probably not what you mean, but I've read so much on the ENDA kerfuffle that when I see statements like that, I invariably see it followed by that sort of reasoning, even if it's put diplomatically, (we call them weasel-words here aka bullshit). I've come to associate them, so pardon if I sound like I'm bristling a bit but I'm not sure where you're taking it.

I don't know what "coming out" is like for a gay person in America, but I don't imagine that the fear and sheer emotional turmoil associated with telling your parents and those who are close to you is any different. I don't imagine the pain of having your sister screaming at you that you'd be better off dead is any different.

I could write more. Much much more. We earned our place on the bus. How dare anybody, how dare you say there is no T in Gay !!!

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 06:30:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
When I say equivalence I'm referring to the associated issues faced by each group which I feel have some real qualitative differences. Nothing to do a with hierarchy. This Arovoisis guy is playing his personal status for his own gain at the expense of others.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 07:12:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As far as those how oppose gay rights are concerned, it doesn't matter how "straight" gay men behave, they are still disgusting people who should be legislated out of existence.  So trying to throw the trannie off the bus to win brownie points with people who will hate you anyway it just stupid.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Oct 12th, 2007 at 06:14:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Several hours of online discussion of sustainibliity by star-studded panels (including a dozen nobel prize laureates) at the Postdam Symposium, 9-10 Oct: climate, energy, water, ..
by Fete des fous on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 03:58:15 PM EST
arghh! Potsdam!
by Fete des fous on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:29:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Question:  What is CET time?  I mean, I assume it is Central European Time, but is it the same as like, Paris time, or are they different time zones?

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:21:28 PM EST
Most of continental Europe is on CET. In the west it's just the British Isles and Portugal that are on CET-1 (Spain is directly south of the British Isles, but is on CET). In the East Finland, Greece and Turkey are on CET+1.

We have met the enemy, and it is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:59:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
CET covers Western Europe except Portugal and the British Isles (they're on GMT), and Central Europe including Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Austria, Hungary, former Yugoslavia.

I think all the countries observe Daylight Savings Time, so Portugal and the British Isles are currently on GMT + 1, and CET countries on GMT + 2. At the end of the month we'll go back to normal time, ie GMT for Portugal and British Isles, GMT + 1 for CET zone.

If that is hopelessly not clear, you should see some of the historical digging DoDo and I did once on the history of all that. No, you shouldn't see...

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:05:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was just wondering what time they were announcing the Nobel prize tomorrow (11 am CET) ...  I'll just assume it's 7 hours ahead of me.  

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:11:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Just use http://www.worldtimeserver.com/

We have met the enemy, and it is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:12:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have a site like that I use, but it lists countries and cities, not time zone abreviations.  Which is why I wasn't sure where CET was...

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:32:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What do you get if you google 'time zones'?

We have met the enemy, and it is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:33:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This, which is what I use.

http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:36:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The second-ranked site, www.worldtimezone.com, has a map.

We have met the enemy, and it is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:46:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm on FST-"French summer time"?

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:16:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The use of this is confusing. FST = CEST, in other words CET in summer.

Here's a map:

The green zone is CET.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Oct 12th, 2007 at 02:56:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Wikipedia is your friend:



We have met the enemy, and it is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:48:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, but I was kinda hoping someone here would be too...  

Thank you for the links.  Of course I'm perfectly capable of looking these things up myself, but since I was chatting with a group of people IN EUROPE, I thought I'd just ask instead.  

But thanks, really...

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 06:21:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I guess the simple answer to your question is: yes, Stockholm and Paris are on the same time zone.

We have met the enemy, and it is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 06:28:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, but are they on CET time?

</ducks, runs...>

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 06:43:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd say Europeans aren't as aware of time zones and their names as Americans. We all live in countries with a single time zone, unlike people in the US that know that the baseball World Series game or that new TV series begins at 7 PM East Coast Time, and can convert to their local time.

So we don't know the Acronyms to our time zones, too.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 07:36:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Started sorting the library after the move: it came out of boxes as they arrived and is more or less randomly sorted.

Is it wrong of me to want to file The Tao of Physics either under fiction or occult?

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:28:39 PM EST
Did you give any books away?  I recently took two bags full of videos and DVDs to the charity shop.  A couple of years ago I took seven bags of books.  (Since then I must have bought about two books: the library re-opened and has, so far, plenty of books about any topic I might be interested in.)

(And, on a Stormy Present recommendation, today I took out a book by Jose Saramago: "The Tale of The Unknown Island"--'coz it's very slim and the older I get, the more I enjoy a slim volume)

The Tao of Physics should go on your special shelf marked: "Beware!"  When guests come round, there they go, over to the books.  That shifty looking chap--he's off in the Alternative Energy section.  That nice lady with the interesting earrings--no!  She's gone over to the...to the...to...

Beware!

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:42:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Did you give any books away?

NOOOOOO!

We have a number of vices. Accumulating books is one of them. If ever I were to go on a life-simplfying and decluttering binge I count "one library": that's not too many.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:44:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, that's a nice little story, that one.  Just barely a taste of what you'll get in Blindness and Seeing (companion volumes of a sort, not really a sequel, but they do go together) and The Cave.
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:51:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I've got a special shelf in the toilet for books like that to help with constipation.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:13:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So all the people going to the toilet at ceebs's....beware!

(In our quiet room--quiet except for the, er, cough cough!...sound of the shower, that's what I meant...I have a book of Go problems, Get Strong At Invading, and Lud Heat by Iain Sinclair.)

(I have to say I haven't got any better at invading.)

(In fact, I think the Go book was removed by popular request--so maybe it has the opposite of a laxative effect.)

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:27:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Fiction - yes.

Occult - no.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:43:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I've just discovered a lost cache of my "to read" stack that went missing last year and was forgotten about, which brings my "to read" stack to a completely out of control seventy books. I mean, some of that is light novels that I'll get through in an hour or so and some is Tintin books in French, but some of it is heavy duty as well.

I think I'll take a month off to read.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:57:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It should be under bad humour.

We have met the enemy, and it is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:02:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, the racket arising from the giant mosque across the street tells me that Eid al-Fitr is here.  Ramadan is officially over in the Republic [sic] of Egypt.

Eid is here.  Where are my earplugs?  The next several hours, possibly up to the next six or seven of them, will consist of this guy shouting ALLAH into the microphone at FULL VOLUME with REVERB.  It is atonal, arhythmic and agonizing.  And really, really loud.  I mean honestly, they crank those babies up to 11.

WHY DO THEY NEED TO USE REVERB?!?!?!?!  I am fairly sure that there is nothing about reverb in the Qur'an.  Or hadith, either.

Oh my.  Now we have feedback.  Great.

I think I'm going to ring in the Eid with half a bottle of whiskey.  And a pair of earplugs, did I mention the earplugs?

Ow, my head.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:33:53 PM EST
I've never understood the amplification thing either. The minaret is to assist projecton of the human voice. That's the tradition, same as a bell tower on a church. But the ampification isn't tradition and is just about the ego of the governing board wanting to get in people's faces.

you have my sympathy. Can I recommend going to a motorbike shop ? that's where I get earplugs from. and they're damn good ones too.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 04:54:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, to be fair, in the Prophet's time, the muezzin didn't have to be heard over the sound of nine million automobiles with horns blaring.  And assorted other forms of noise pollution that Cairo is home to....

I have a really excellent set of earplugs that I got for plane travel, plus a bunch of the disposable yellow foam kind.  If it's still going when I go to sleep, I guess I'll find out which works better.

I'm afraid to say this because I fear the minute I do, it'll start up again, but it actually seems to have stopped for now.  But the last two years he'd take a break and then start up again.  So we shall see.

I really like the call to prayer at that mosque, but the Eid is tough.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:03:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Crap.  I knew it.  He just started up again.
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:06:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think you'll find there is a line in the Quran which roughly translates to "Eid announcements must make more noise than the crowd at the stadium when Egypt win the African Nations Cup..."

Hence the amplification.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 05:30:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Can't change my vote now, but I finally can see her go 'round both ways, not just clockwise.

Called my daughter, tried it on her and the grandkids... she saw it change a lot, then it was mostly counter clockwise and she can change it.  But the KIDS, they see it constantly changing.  I wonder if that's the norm for young, "unset" minds?

And since I'm not lurking, I'll take this opportunity to say that Eurotrib just makes my day.  Thanks to all those who post all those interesting things.

Karen in Austin

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher

by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 06:16:56 PM EST
In addition to being considered for use by French police to monitor banlieues and demonstrations, it turns out that unmanned surveillance drones have also been tested and considered for use over Britain and Belgium:

Royaume-Uni : Le projet gouvernemental Astraea, lancé en 2006 en collaboration avec sept firmes aéronautiques, prévoit l'utilisation de drones au-dessus du Royaume-Uni d'ici la fin de la décennie. A écouter ses promoteurs, les appareils, baptisés Unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV), pourraient être utilisés pour aider la police dans sa mission de maintien de l'ordre ou de surveillance de la circulation.

Ainsi, la police du Merseyside, couvrant Liverpool, s'est déclarée intéressée par les drones en vue de mieux contrôler les quartiers sensibles du grand port, afin de lutter contre le vandalisme et les incivilités.

Aujourd'hui, les UAV sont interdits dans l'espace aérien britannique trop congestionné, si ce n'est lors des meetings aériens ou de manoeuvres militaires dans des coins perdus du royaume. La Civil Aviation Authority, l'administration de l'aviation civile britannique, est en train de réexaminer les règlements restrictifs concernant l'espace aérien.

Belgique : La police de Bruxelles a testé, en juin, un drone silencieux. On ignore si l'expérience a été jugée concluante par les responsables politiques mais l'état-major estime qu'un tel appareil, équipé d'une caméra ou d'un appareil photo, pourrait s'avérer très utile pour contrôler des manifestations - nombreuses à Bruxelles, siège d'institutions internationales -, lutter contre le travail clandestin, ou assurer une observation lors d'une perquisition. Les images captées en altitude par un drone peuvent être instantanément transmises au sol. En 2006, la Belgique a également envisagé l'utilisation d'avions sans pilote pour traquer les navires pollueurs en Mer du Nord.

Devices that have been tested in Europe but very much used in Israel

Curiously, the only criticism against the use of these drones that the article reports is that of British Airline pilots who fear the "risk of collision" between the drones and their airplanes, "particularly near airports":

La British Air Line Pilots Association, le syndicat représentant les pilotes de ligne, s'oppose toutefois à leur déploiement en raison du risque de collision avec les avions, en particulier à proximité des aéroports.

The article does not seem to register any criticisms based on concerns about the possibility of privacy and civil rights abuse and risk of disproportionate use of firepower on civilians that the drones introduce:

Israël : Les drones peuvent être utilisés pour lancer des missiles sur des immeubles ou des voitures dans lesquelles se trouvent les personnes recherchées. C'est ainsi que de nombreux dirigeants politiques de différentes organisations palestiniennes ont été éliminés.

On the other hand,

For its defenders, the use of UAVs [Unmanned aerial vehicles] offers the advantage of being less costly than using satellites, helicopters, and small planes.

This does raise the interesting question:  In what ways would UAVs be more dangerous to civilians -- both in terms of civil rights as well as actual physical safety -- than police helicopters?

The key to culture is religion. Daniel Dennett @ TED (Feb 2006)

by marco on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 06:42:39 PM EST
In terms of civil rights, they would be smaller, and quieter so could come closer, possibly enough to deploy microphones. Plus probably cheap enough to fly more often. A helecopter has enough weight that it's going to cost much more in Fuel so surveilance will only be done if truely necessary. whereas a uav , you could probably deploy ten times as many.

As for Danger. The big problem is the operator mentality. the extra layer of mental distance, making the use seem more video-game than real life. making risks seem less worrying as the pilot is not in danger. Unfortunately that increases the threat to civilians in the area.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 07:48:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The quietness is a big potential issue. Outdoors most people will hear our local police helicopter coming. But a drone could potentially be drowned out in traffic noise.
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Oct 12th, 2007 at 06:40:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Frieze Magazine | Archive | The Art of War

This may explain the fascination of the military with the spatial and organizational models and modes of operation advanced by theorists such as Deleuze and Guattari. Indeed, as far as the military is concerned, urban warfare is the ultimate Postmodern form of conflict. Belief in a logically structured and single-track battle-plan is lost in the face of the complexity and ambiguity of the urban reality. Civilians become combatants, and combatants become civilians. Identity can be changed as quickly as gender can be feigned: the transformation of women into fighting men can occur at the speed that it takes an undercover `Arabized' Israeli soldier or a camouflaged Palestinian fighter to pull a machine-gun out from under a dress. For a Palestinian fighter caught up in this battle, Israelis seem `to be everywhere: behind, on the sides, on the right and on the left. How can you fight that way?'9

Critical theory has become crucial for Nave's teaching and training. He explained: `we employ critical theory primarily in order to critique the military institution itself - its fixed and heavy conceptual foundations. Theory is important for us in order to articulate the gap between the existing paradigm and where we want to go. Without theory we could not make sense of the different events that happen around us and that would otherwise seem disconnected. [...] At present the Institute has a tremendous impact on the military; [it has] become a subversive node within it. By training several high-ranking officers we filled the system [IDF] with subversive agents [...] who ask questions; [...] some of the top brass are not embarrassed to talk about Deleuze or [Bernard] Tschumi.'10 I asked him, `Why Tschumi?' He replied: `The idea of disjunction embodied in Tschumi's book Architecture and Disjunction (1994) became relevant for us [...] Tschumi had another approach to epistemology; he wanted to break with single-perspective knowledge and centralized thinking. He saw the world through a variety of different social practices, from a constantly shifting point of view. [Tschumi] created a new grammar; he formed the ideas that compose our thinking.11 I then asked him, why not Derrida and Deconstruction? He answered, `Derrida may be a little too opaque for our crowd. We share more with architects; we combine theory and practice. We can read, but we know as well how to build and destroy, and sometimes kill.'12

In addition to these theoretical positions, Naveh references such canonical elements of urban theory as the Situationist practices of dérive (a method of drifting through a city based on what the Situationists referred to as `psycho-geography') and détournement (the adaptation of abandoned buildings for purposes other than those they were designed to perform). These ideas were, of course, conceived by Guy Debord and other members of the Situationist International to challenge the built hierarchy of the capitalist city and break down distinctions between private and public, inside and outside, use and function, replacing private space with a `borderless' public surface. References to the work of Georges Bataille, either directly or as cited in the writings of Tschumi, also speak of a desire to attack architecture and to dismantle the rigid rationalism of a postwar order, to escape `the architectural strait-jacket' and to liberate repressed human desires.
In no uncertain terms, education in the humanities - often believed to be the most powerful weapon against imperialism - is being appropriated as a powerful vehicle for imperialism. The military's use of theory is, of course, nothing new - a long line extends all the way from Marcus Aurelius to General Patton.

An impressive application of postmodernism...

I knew all kinds of academic fields could find military applications, but critical theory never came to my mind, though...

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 07:58:48 PM EST
The military are not always like this, but occasionally they are at the very cutting edge of being practical about the value of theory.

Whilst other institutions (be it business, government or faith) are obsessed with the knock-on effects of things like postmodernism, the military (in this case) shows an admirable understanding that (for example) "shifting perspectives" are a reality that must be engaged with in surviving certain battles.

Of course, if only they would extend this to their attitude to the rest of their work and institution it might be a better world, but it's nice to see people engage with the world more as it is and less as they wish it to be...

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Oct 12th, 2007 at 06:37:12 AM EST
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