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Mitt Romney in France

by DowneastDem Sun Nov 18th, 2007 at 07:32:57 AM EST

I don't know how many of you read the New York Times' front-page profile of Mitt Romney the other day, but it does provide some good insight into the man who has an excellent shot at becoming the Republican nominee for president. The article is about Romney's period as a Mormon missionary in France in 1968. That experience had a profound impact on Romney. According to his son Tagg Romney he constantly speaks about this period, and it""helped him become who he is now."

Of course, the Vietnam War was raging at the time, and Romney and his fellow Mormons were not exactly welcome with open arms.

The missionaries had often met with hostility over the Vietnam War. "Are you an American?" was a common greeting, Mr. Romney recalled, followed by, "`Get out of Vietnam! Bang!' The door would slam." But such opposition only hardened their hawkish views. "We felt the French were pretty weak-kneed," Mr. Hansen said.
Those "hawkish views" of Romney and his fellow Mormons did not compell them to actually volunteer for combat duty in Vietnam. Romney later turned against the Vietnam War after his father told him it was "bad".

But what Romney really gained from his time in France was a deep appreciation for AMerican-style "free enterprise" and "liberty":

His experiences "gave me a great appreciation of the value of liberty and the value of the free-enterprise system," he added. "It brings home that these things are not ubiquitous, that what we enjoy here is actually quite unique and therefore is fragile."
The implication, then, is that liberty and free-enterprise were not to be found in France.


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liberty and free-enterprise were not to be found in France.

They're hiding behind Egalité & Fraternité

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun Nov 18th, 2007 at 08:04:47 AM EST
I was thinking the same thing after I read it.  What incredible ignorance.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Sun Nov 18th, 2007 at 10:26:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd be happy to discuss France with Mr Romney.

In French.

I mean, he was a missionary here, so he speaks it fluently, right?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Nov 18th, 2007 at 09:26:26 AM EST
Now, you know that's not a half bad idea.

Can you imagine what would happen if someone were able to get into a Romney event and ask him a question in French?

And if you got it on tape, even better.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Sun Nov 18th, 2007 at 09:50:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think they can put you to death for that in Texas.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Sun Nov 18th, 2007 at 10:22:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Their efforts were interrupted when France erupted into chaos in May 1968. Student uprisings and a general strike -- fueled in part by anger over the Vietnam War -- shut down the telephones, trains and mail. Trash piled up in the streets, while store shelves and gas stations sat empty. Mr. Romney, then a leader for the region around Bordeaux, carried empty soap containers of borrowed fuel on his moped, then drove to an American bank in Paris for food money. He saw student demonstrators turning over cars, setting fires, hurling cobblestones and battling the police.

Mr. Romney described it as "a very interesting firsthand view of a very volatile setting." But his friends say the strikes were terrifying and reinforced their respect for authority. "The social system failed. The country came to a stop," said Byron Hansen, another missionary and now a car dealer in Brigham City, Utah. "It affected me and I am sure it affected Mitt."


The most interesting part IMHO.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid on Sun Nov 18th, 2007 at 11:57:16 AM EST
But his friends say the strikes were terrifying and reinforced their respect for authority.

Now how does that work?

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sun Nov 18th, 2007 at 12:07:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
When people come under stress they tend to retreat to the comfortable.  Thus, a person who has the tendency to identify with Authority comes under stress through confusion or fear they tend to increase their psychological attachment to Authority.  

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Sun Nov 18th, 2007 at 12:22:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, that struck me as well. Romney would never go against authority - whether it's the authority of the Mormon Church or that of his father.

He deplored the anti-war protests of the "dirty hippie" students, but was perfectly able to change his views on Vietnam when his father told him to...

Dialog International

by DowneastDem (david.vickrey (at) post.harvard.edu) on Sun Nov 18th, 2007 at 12:50:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's interesting the importance given to Vietnam in the Romney camp accounts. Though it's true Vietnam loomed fairly large in student consciousness in 1968, it wasn't central to the revolt. And I'm having a job seeing all those French doors slamming in the missionaries' faces on the grounds they were American and should get out of Vietnam. I suggest a more authentically French reason for shutting the door was that people selling religion on the doorstep just don't go down well here...
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Nov 18th, 2007 at 02:41:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, it works pretty well in Britain, as I understand it, and you know how the conservatives in America can see Europeans a bit like how Reagan saw trees:  Seen one, seen'em all.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Sun Nov 18th, 2007 at 05:05:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, there is a difference between France and Britain on this (perhaps even more so 40 years ago).

But the use of Vietnam in Romney's story is above all self-serving, since it shows him being rejected as an American (European anti-Americanism, anyone?), not just because he was a drooling missionary idiot who was pissing people off.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Nov 19th, 2007 at 02:19:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What?

When society breaks down and chaos ensues, the logical result is that those went through the experience will get have a greater respect and understanding of the anti-chaos forces of the State. They'll see what's needed to make sure those things don't happen again.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Sun Nov 18th, 2007 at 12:29:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Pfff. I know a lot of people who were witnesses of May '68, and their reactions are extremely varied. Some - of an authoritarian mindset, whether they knew it or not before those events - reacted as you suggest. Others drew inspiration from it for different forms of revolt, collective or (often) individualist.

A number of Parisians who explained their experiences of '68 to me were fairly indifferent. It wasn't such a big deal, they thought. You just worked your way round it while it was happening.

"Chaos" is a big and overworked word, imho.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Nov 18th, 2007 at 02:32:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"Chaos" is a big and overworked word, imho.

Especially when used about France and even more about French strikes.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun Nov 18th, 2007 at 03:11:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, but you have to understand:  Here in the states we're so incompetent about strikes and protests that we need to lie to ourselves and pretend y'all are the fuck-ups.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Sun Nov 18th, 2007 at 05:13:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's really so simple.  When politicians make policies that deprive people of jobs, homes, health insurance, etc, turning their lives and their communities upside down, that's free enterprise.  When you hold up a sign to complain about it, that's chaos.

Karen in Austin

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher

by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Mon Nov 19th, 2007 at 05:43:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
always lead to an expanded worldview.

I have noticed there are two main reactions to travel.  One group finds it disorientating.  They cannot understand how people can be so different.  In the middle of Paris, they will go hunting for a McDonalds.  They will stay in a Hilton so they can find the phones.  

What a waste.

The second group revels in the differences.  They are searching for new things to experience.  The want to learn as much new stuff as they can afford.  Every trip they take makes them more interesting people.

Guess what group Mitt falls into.  He is likely to be as ugly an American as W.

"Remember the I35W bridge--who needs terrorists when there are Republicans"

by techno (reply@elegant-technology.com) on Sun Nov 18th, 2007 at 11:05:18 PM EST
Romney, in this description, makes me think of the (possibly apocryphal) John Bull Brit complaining that "those people" didn't understand him and thus shouted, on the theory that louder would be understood.

I'm still amazed that his candidacy is being taken at all seriously. He was, by many (admittedly partisan) reports, such a staggeringly bad governor of Massachusetts, and so universally reviled, that it seems inconceivable that no one has pointed this out to the populace.

Oh, wait, I forgot about the Washington press corpse.

by Mnemosyne on Mon Nov 19th, 2007 at 12:19:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think I posted long ago on this very site that people were worrying too much about Romney, that he was a nobody over here and would not be a contender in the race.

Oops.

Karen in Austin

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher

by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Mon Nov 19th, 2007 at 05:46:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Karen:

Romney is leading in the polls in Iowa, New Hampshire, and S. Carolina.  If he wins all three, wouldn't that make him a very serious contender?  He also has a strong organization in Michigan, so he could do well on the Feb.5 "Super Primary" day.

I do intensely dislike Mitt, but I prefer him over Giuliani, who is far more dangerous.

Dialog International

by DowneastDem (david.vickrey (at) post.harvard.edu) on Mon Nov 19th, 2007 at 08:29:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
good greenwald comment on the NY times article and the issue of romney, vietnam and the iraq war:

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/11/15/romney/index.html

by Almanax on Sun Nov 18th, 2007 at 11:31:53 PM EST


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