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Cheese-eating surrender monkeys Open Thread

by Jerome a Paris Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 12:45:55 PM EST

Cartoons welcome!


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Foreign Ministers Rock Out: Steinmeier and Kouchner to Record R&B Song - International - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News

The French and German foreign ministers, Bernard Kouchner and Frank-Walter Steinmeier, are to record a duet together for release on YouTube. Fortunately professional musicians will be on hand to help out the two crooning politicians.

When it comes to singing, Bernard Kouchner seems to be more of a crooner ... The European Union has an image problem. All too many ordinary Europeans find it, well, boring, with young people in particular being on the whole underwhelmed by Brussels.

So what better way to appeal to young Europeans than through the language they understand best: music? Throw in some banging tunes and some fat beats and they'll be crossing the "yes" box at the next referendum before you can say "European constitution."

That, at least, seems to be the approach which the foreign ministers of France and Germany -- the two countries which make up the famous "motor" of the EU -- are taking in a bid to promote international harmony: Germany's Frank-Walter Steinmeier, 51, and France's Bernard Kouchner, 68, are to collaborate Monday on a duet.

by Fran on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 12:48:39 PM EST
Don't you 'feel the groove' when you record an R&B song?

Anyway, finish this sentence:

This will be the biggest embarrassment for the EU since...

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 02:23:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This is funny, challenging and possibly simplistic.

For me, it turns clockwise, although with a little effort I can see her spinning counter-clockwise; the test outcome is as expected.

by findmeaDoorIntoSummer on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 01:09:20 PM EST
I think you may have missed some earlier discussion. Can someone link?

"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles." Sun Tzu
by Turambar (sersguenda at hotmail com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 01:12:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In this open thread.

The struggle of man against tyranny is the struggle of memory against forgetting.(Kundera)
by Elco B (elcob at scarlet dot be) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 01:42:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, you are both right. Had it been something more serious, and I would have check it before posting. thanks.
by findmeaDoorIntoSummer on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 01:46:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Today is the most important day in German history: Schicksalstag.

"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles." Sun Tzu
by Turambar (sersguenda at hotmail com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 01:10:31 PM EST


*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 01:11:10 PM EST



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 01:16:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]


*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 01:26:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

by Fete des fous on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 01:54:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]


Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 03:21:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]


The struggle of man against tyranny is the struggle of memory against forgetting.(Kundera)
by Elco B (elcob at scarlet dot be) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 01:24:07 PM EST
really good.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 03:05:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
POLITICS-US: Cheney Tried to Stifle Dissent in Iran NIE
WASHINGTON, Nov 8 (IPS) - A National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) on Iran has been held up for more than a year in an effort to force the intelligence community to remove dissenting judgments on the Iranian nuclear programme, and thus make the document more supportive of U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney's militarily aggressive policy toward Iran, according to accounts of the process provided by participants to two former Central Intelligence Agency officers.

But this pressure on intelligence analysts, obviously instigated by Cheney himself, has not produced a draft estimate without those dissenting views, these sources say. The White House has now apparently decided to release the unsatisfactory draft NIE, but without making its key findings public.


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 01:29:51 PM EST
this should be diaried.  or at least re-posted on the Salon.

Asia Times also has an article about it:

Spooks refuse to toe Cheney's line on Iran

Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.

by marco on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 07:55:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks for that other link, I'll diary it in the morning.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 08:08:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Kucinich wins DFA poll. Write-in Al Gore second.

"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles." Sun Tzu
by Turambar (sersguenda at hotmail com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 01:33:26 PM EST
of 'legitimizing racism'

Of course this news wasn't reported in the english-speaking press:

"UN Racism Expert Doudou Diène addressed the General Assembly's Third Committee on social, humanitarian and cultural affairs, noting a "resurgence" in racist and xenophobic violence, as well as growing "defamation of religions." He cited racial as well as religious hatred, anti-Semitism, Christianophobia and, particularly, Islamophobia. Diène took the unusual step of criticizing French President Nicolas Sarkozy for a July 2007 speech in Dakar that allegedly stated that "Africans had not become part of history." According to Diène, this was "an example of the legitimization of racism...it recalled the essentialism of racist constructions of the 18th and 19th centuries."
UN Watch

No big surprise to anyone who followed the french elections yet it is good to see he is getting the publicity he deserves on the international stage.

by Fete des fous on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 01:35:59 PM EST

"We know everything about you. From the Americans."

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 01:46:03 PM EST


*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 01:58:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"Safer it's not, but communication is now better."

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 02:05:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]


In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 03:04:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Incident/failure/irregularity/breakdown (there's no precise equivalent).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 03:07:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Literally, it is "case of disturbance"; it's a general term that doesn't indicate severity.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 03:09:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Critique of (German) carmakers:

"Improves the CO2 balance!"

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 03:12:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
(You'll have to turn this one up.)

AEIO Uuuuuuuuuuu....

Followed by...the best song ever in a flim?

(Don't forget to turn the volume down again before clicking play.)



Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 03:10:46 PM EST
From The Oregonian, Wind demands dwarf supply

The combination is producing an unintended result: West Coast utilities and independent power producers are locked in a land rush to secure the best wind sites and the power they produce. Coupled with a worldwide shortage of turbines and a falling dollar, the resulting scarcity is driving up the cost of wind power -- a burden that electricity ratepayers ultimately will shoulder...

Meanwhile, experts are already questioning whether the West Coast states' progressively higher mandates will outstrip the region's potential supply of green power or its ability to move that power around the electrical grid...

Renewables advocates reject any notion of a shortage. They claim there are adequate projects in the pipeline to meet early targets and plenty more to tap if big players get moving. If wave, tidal, geothermal and solar technologies mature, they could be big contributors as well.

by Magnifico on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 04:18:20 PM EST

by Magnifico on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 04:27:06 PM EST


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 05:56:52 PM EST
Can someone explain why this piece is wrong and/or right?

From this we note that the implied interest rate on gold is the lowest, over the long term, of any currency on earth. That's because gold is the highest-quality currency on earth.

The United States' Founding Fathers understood this well. In the constitution of 1789, they mandated that gold would serve as the basis of money in the United States. The United States stuck to this principle for 182 years, until 1971. During those 182 years, the US never suffered permanent, large-scale inflation. Immediately after decoupling the dollar from gold in 1971, inflation ignited in the US and around the world. The dollar lost about 90% of its value vs gold that decade, and prices adjusted accordingly. It took 20 years to recover from the disaster.

<...>

Between 1823 and 1914, 91 years on the gold standard, the yield on the British government's Consol bonds was never above 4.0%. These bonds were of infinite maturity. This one statistic tells you all you need to know about monetary and macroeconomic stability under the gold standard. If two currencies are pegged to gold, then their exchange rates must also be stable. Despite all the thousands of PhDs issued and papers written over the past decades, no government or mainstream economist has ever been able to touch this track record. They don't even try.

Floating currencies have been around for millennia. The attractions of currency manipulation are so great that it seems there's always someone who wants to give it another try. The philosopher Plato apparently helped the ruler of Syracuse issue a floating fiat currency in the year 388 BC. The results of that project, and all of the hundreds that followed over the centuries, were exactly the same. They eventually failed, and the successful governments returned to gold as the basis of their monetary affairs.

Godl: A barbarous relic

The thing that I could never get is this:

The principle of a gold standard is elementary: gold is stable in value...

Why?  What makes gold so special?  What gives it its almost divine status?  Surely water is far, far more instrinsically valuable to humans than a shiny, ductile, malleable and sectile metal?

Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.

by marco on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 07:50:46 PM EST
If water was as intrinsically valuable, would national mints be the only people entitled to run desalination plants?

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 08:11:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If water was as intrinsically valuable, would national mints be the only people entitled to run desalination plants?

i don't think so.  but it's not illegal to pan for gold either, is it?

but i guess my question wasn't about finding some commodity to base currencies on, but rather about why gold has so long had this special, almost sacral value in  human societies, and as the ultimate basis for and/or fall-back as money.  (not sure how universal that is, though.)

as for commodity-based currencies, how about "energy dollars" or "carbon dollars"?

Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.

by marco on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 08:57:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well panning for gold you're only going to ever discover insignificant ammounts. whereas a desalination plant will produce your money equivalent in industrial quantities might have noticeable financial effects.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sat Nov 10th, 2007 at 04:43:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I watched a programme this evening, "Tribes" by David Attenborough (I think you'd enjoy it), in which I watched a group of Solomon Islanders make shell money.  They were the only people who made this money, which involved finding certain shells and then working them to a round and very smooth finish and drilling a hole through them; the one tribe were the only ones to make this money, but it was used widely--by many other tribes.  In the film the two uses shown were: a brides dowry, where huge chains of these small worked shells were hung up in preparation for their transfer to the brides new husband; and as a welcoming present for David Attenborough, symbolic in this case.

So I think there are two elements (maybe!) for a currency to have intrinsic value (where you'd keep it just because you wanted to, rather than "transactional", where your only plan is to replace it with something more immediately valuable):

  1. Human labour producing something of obvious and basic value: just one example: gold is considered beautiful by humans; it does not tarnish and does not rot.  (Ditto the polished shells, though they may be easier to break--but there were a lot of them!  And shell is tough!)

  2. A scarcity value implied by this need for humans to "work to produce the money"...hmmm...

You can't spend gold at the supermarket, but if you have a bar of it, or some coins at home, or in your pocket, you have a lot of "money"--it is still valuable, and its uses keep growing, I suppose (I'm thinking electronics, but I'm sure it has many applications.)

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 08:15:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I watched a programme this evening, "Tribes" by David Attenborough (I think you'd enjoy it), in which I watched a group of Solomon Islanders make shell money.

you're right, i think i would very much like that program.

how amazing -- and disturbing -- that one tribe has the monopoly on producing these shells for use as currency among other tribes.  effectively, they are like a dowry (or is that cowry?) shell central bank!

did the program suggest any other kind of such division of labor among the tribes, e.g. one tribe focusing on making baskets, another tribe on fishing hooks, etc.?

on the question of what makes a good "medium of exchange", Wikipedia cites:

  1. transportability
   2. divisibility
   3. high market value in relation to volume and weight
   4. recognizability
   5. resistance to counterfeiting

To serve as a medium of exchange, a good or signal need not have any inherent value of its own, that is, it need not be effective as a store of value in itself. Paper money is a useful medium of exchange in part because it has no such value, thus, it cannot lose that value if damaged, and so damaged paper money is easily replaced. Gold was long popular as a medium of exchange and store of value because it was convenient to move large quantities and was inert, and so would not tarnish or lose weight or value.

But in the age of electronic money, haven't we moved beyond such physical concerns?

And while I don't think water is traded as a commodity yet, and much less am advocating that, it occurs to me that if I could know what the price of a liter of drinking water on the international markets is, that would give me a very different kind of information of what my holdings in RMB, euros, pesos, yen, baht, dollars, etc. are "worth" (as opposed to the sort of information that knowing what the price of gold internationally gives me.)

But rather than talk about water as a medium exchange, what about using it as the basis for a currency peg?  The author of this article seems to think pegging the dollar back to gold would be a good idea.  Supposing that pegging currency to a commodity could be a good idea at all, I simply wonder why it wouldn't be more reasonable to use a commodity that in and of itself has direct and obvious value to people, or at least to human society, something like water, or energy.

Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.

by marco on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 09:31:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I suppose then it could literally "rain money" ;)

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Sat Nov 10th, 2007 at 05:52:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
When I saw the first cartoon, I instantly thought of the Italian phrase, something about really great cheese smelling like the feet of God  ?
by greatferm (greatferm-at-email.com) on Sat Nov 10th, 2007 at 01:55:26 AM EST
I hadn't heard that.  Welcome to ET, greatferm!

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Sat Nov 10th, 2007 at 06:12:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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