Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.

Friday Photography Blog No.11

by In Wales Sun Nov 11th, 2007 at 10:32:56 AM EST



Friday has come around very quickly. It's been a busy week here.

It's very quiet so I'll promote the photoblog for your perusal - In Wales


No themes this week because I didn't get around to thinking of any!  If you desparately want to suggest a theme then please do and I'll update.

Please try to keep to 600 pixels width and less than 100kb in file size and take a look at Wednesday Photography Blog No.2 for the technical bits on how to post.

Enjoy and feel free to carry on posting over the weekend!

Display:
More fireworks from Monday.


by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 02:40:07 AM EST
WOW!!! beautiful pictures.
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 02:42:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
ooh!  I love how you've captured the movement.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes
by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 05:16:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Kosmos

More fireworks (no, it's not a distant galaxy)

You have a normal feeling for a moment, then it passes. --More--

by tzt (tzt) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 01:08:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have this one on my desk top page now. You could have fooled me: distant galaxy!
by Quentin on Mon Nov 12th, 2007 at 03:32:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Taken on the river bank in Hay on Wye a few months ago.

I've been working on two commissioned jobs and I feel like I've lost all the art in photography.  Can't wait til I can get back to taking my own weird and wonderful view of the world shots again.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 02:43:25 AM EST
I've been working on two commissioned jobs and I feel like I've lost all the art in photography.  Can't wait til I can get back to taking my own weird and wonderful view of the world shots again.

Yeah, that happens. I'm a bit worried because I haven't taken any photos I really like after photo school started. Funny how it goes.


You have a normal feeling for a moment, then it passes. --More--
by tzt (tzt) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 01:10:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, I feel as though I can't see the wood for the trees, I'm drowning in the detail of about 1000 mediocre photos and non of them stand out to me.  Which ones do I pass onto the client, when I don't feel impressed with any?!

I'm looking forward to being creative with steel for Sven though.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Nov 10th, 2007 at 03:07:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Lovely..

You have a normal feeling for a moment, then it passes. --More--
by tzt (tzt) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 01:21:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
red-dress-sea-40632

November day, Nice

father-girl-sea-40645

Passing on life skills

accordian-girl-40646

Attentive listener

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 05:24:11 AM EST
Are they trying to sink the boat in the second one?!

And November weather in Nice is good enough for playing in the sea? Lovely!

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 05:28:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I miss Nice. I once rented an apartment just next to the Cours Saleya for a few weeks.. had a really lovely time. This was taken near "our street".

Nizza colors

You have a normal feeling for a moment, then it passes. --More--

by tzt (tzt) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 01:13:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Love the Life Skills and Accordionista pix. Been too busy working of late to post much here, but promise to put that right and put up some pix next week.
Can be hard keeping the creative juices flowing when you HAVE to deliver, but let's face it, it's what separates the men from the boys.
It's also about standards, but that's a discussion for another day.
N

f8; and be there...
by Nigel CheffersHeard (nigelch(at)cheffers(dot)co(dot)uk) on Sat Nov 10th, 2007 at 04:14:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What happens when things eat the silk off your sweetcorn:

The yellow bits tasted good though.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 06:43:55 AM EST
Nice restaurant in Paris.

Whole prawns always freak me out for some reason.

Both this and the previous picture are from my k750i mobile phone.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 06:51:12 AM EST
I WAS hungry...now I'm starving!!!!!!!!

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars. Oscar Wilde
by Sam on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 07:14:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Does this help?

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 07:19:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Now why can't I get a plate of those for lunch on Baggot St???  We're like 3 miles at most from the sea!!!

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars. Oscar Wilde
by Sam on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 07:29:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 07:22:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Emmm...now my saliva glands have gone into overdrive...thanks dear!!! Another half hour before I get any food!!

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars. Oscar Wilde
by Sam on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 07:27:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'll ask Sam.

Also from the phone.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 06:55:59 AM EST
Mimulus or 'Monkey Flowers'...

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars. Oscar Wilde
by Sam on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 07:09:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
wonderful complete meal for 12 euros. It was very old and had a lot of character and was run by a large family of Italian origin. In September there was a sign up that it was closed for renovation and would reopen in October. As of Oct. 20, it was still not open and there was no sign of activity inside. I fear it's not reopening.

P.S. Please excuse me for breaking the rules as to size
but I have no way to reduce my photos today.

 

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 06:57:07 AM EST
Where is the restaurant exactly?
by Quentin on Mon Nov 12th, 2007 at 03:21:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's in the 18th arrondissement near where I lived for ten years and where I have just taken a little studio. It's at the intersection of Rues Marcadet, Duhesme, Ruisseau and Francoeur, not far from the "Mairie" of the 18th. The cafe might have a name but as many time as I've eaten there, I'm not aware of it. My wife and I call it the restaurant at the "carrefour."

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Mon Nov 12th, 2007 at 07:00:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
about 20 minutes from Fontainebleau. I love to take photos here. It is known as the home of a famous impressionist painter (of British origin) who lived the last 20 years of his life here. Can you guess the painter and the town?



Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 07:12:31 AM EST
Beautiful photos Len!

And while I have your attention...hope your East Coast tour is going well! I am going to Baltimore for a conference next week - 14th to the 18th - and noticed you posted a photo in the last week of a Baltimore street scene. Any areas, clubs or restaurants you can suggest I visit in Baltimore? Will you be around the neighborhood then?

Cheers,

Bob

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia

by whataboutbob on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 08:22:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hi Bob. I don't know Baltimore too well. A friend and I had picked up a another friend at Baltimore-Washington Airport and we were going to a  very famous restaurant that they knew in old Baltimore. It was called "Berthas" and it's known for its mussels. It's a very old restaurant; it was very good. I don't remember what I ate.
I'll be leaving Washington on the 15th to return to Paris so it wont be possible to get together. We'll have to wait until the next ET meetup. It's very brave of you to come in for a 4 day conference. It takes me a week to get over the jet lag. I walk around like a zombie for a week.
Cheers Bob, Len.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 08:37:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I guessed Sisley, then checked:

Sisley was exclusively a landscape painter, who, in the line of Corot, and with Monet, best sought and succeeded in expressing the most subtle nuances of nature in Impressionist landscapes.

British by his birth and his nationality, though he lived in France, he is also in the tradition of Constable, Bonington and Turner.
...

In 1864, at the same time as his friends, he leaves the School of Fine Arts at the moment Charles Gleyre ceases teaching there, and devotes himself to painting in open air in the area of Fontainebleau, at Chailly-en-Bière, then in Marlotte from 1865 to 1866, while living thanks to financial support which his father offers to him.

http://www.impressionniste.net/sisley_alfred.htm



Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Sat Nov 10th, 2007 at 05:42:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hi Ted. Sisley is correct. The town is Moret-sur-Loing. The scene I posted is of a lovely spot in the middle of the town taken from the bridge over the Loing. I couldn't post a larger version of the photo yesterday but my brother-in law later allowed me to load Picasa to his computer.
Here's the 600 mpx version:



Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP on Sat Nov 10th, 2007 at 08:26:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
By the way. Sisley lived in Moret from 1880 until his death in 1899.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Sat Nov 10th, 2007 at 08:38:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And sadly:

With Sisley disappeared the only great Impressionist painter who did not meet success in his lifetime, in spite of moral and financial support offered to him by art dealers Paul Durand-Ruel and George Petit, and their efforts to have his work exhibited in Paris and abroad.

However, a year after his death, his painting "Flood at Port-Marly" (Orsay Museum - Paris) reached a high bidding at the Tavernier sale of March 6, 1900, while being sold to Count Isaac de Camondo. The success, which had been denied to Sisley during his life, stuck thus to his name as of the year following his death.

http://www.impressionniste.net/sisley_alfred.htm



Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Sat Nov 10th, 2007 at 01:16:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It is sad indeed that Sisley was so poorly treated, but not, alas, unique. Whether it reflects great artists or personal relationships, you often only realise their true value once they are irretrievably lost.
I think there is (certainly in UK general populus ) a complete lack of regard for creative endeavour. Is it lack of eye-opening education, being fed a constant stream of pap on mainstream TV, or a cynicism about all those "great works" (eg, a crack in the floor at Tate Modern)?
Probably a mix of all those things. I was photographing a live music event this week, and a third of the audience in the bar listenened, and two thirds laughed, talked, shouted, and generally behaved as if this was a rugby club bar. That there were young people on stage giving it their all got little respect or even recognition.
This is after all the Tesco Generation, they wanted choice, sadly they haven't the intellect to use that choice wisely.
As you see, Grumpy Old Man mode tonight.
Photographed some Sickert paintings once... dark grey and darker green. He must have been a bundle of laughs...

:)

N

f8; and be there...

by Nigel CheffersHeard (nigelch(at)cheffers(dot)co(dot)uk) on Sat Nov 10th, 2007 at 04:10:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was photographing a live music event this week, and a third of the audience in the bar listenened, and two thirds laughed, talked, shouted, and generally behaved as if this was a rugby club bar. That there were young people on stage giving it their all got little respect or even recognition.

ah yes...as an occasional performer of live music myself, there are two ways to look at this phenomenon, imo.

first is, only great bands can shut up the oiks, as slowly the latter become aware that history is being written in front of their ears ( i saw this happen in london frequently during the 60's), and eventually the boorish element is displaced by fans...

second, there is a race of morons who actually have no interest in (supporting) live music per se, and just use it as a backdrop for their own egos to act out...

as in doing an acoustic gig, and having a couple sit at the nearest table in front of me and commence to have loud and stupid conversation.

they want the heat without the light!

also england is a particular country in its peoples' enjoyment of inflicting disdain, while affecting diffidence.

on the continent people are less embarrassed to take the risk of wholeheartedly liking something.

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Mon Nov 12th, 2007 at 03:26:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I woke up from a nap last week, walked into the corridor, and this is what I saw; my son going to a Halloween party dressed as Toshiro Mifune.



Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 09:10:53 AM EST
Your children span quite an age range don't they?!
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 09:21:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes. Strangely, his birthday is on the same day as estHer's but 24 years earlier. I'll never have time for the "golden years."

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 09:29:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
He looks more like  Tatsuya Nakadai

tatsuya-nakadai

He became a star after he was discovered working as a shop clerk by filmmaker Masaki Kobayashi during the early 1950s. His starring roles in the films of Akira Kurosawa are among his most famous.

... his long-term collaboration with Masaki Kobayashi invites comparison to the working relationships between Akira Kurosawa and Toshiro Mifune, Nakadai was featured in 11 of Kobayashi films including, The Human Condition trilogy, Harakiri and Kwaidan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatsuya_Nakadai



Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Sat Nov 10th, 2007 at 03:40:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What is this?

I stole the picture from the UK MOD.      

 


The struggle of man against tyranny is the struggle of memory against forgetting.(Kundera)
by Elco B (elcob at scarlet dot be) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 10:05:12 AM EST
dosn't the link rather give away what it is?

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 10:06:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Vietnamese noodle soup restaurant looking inside out; Washington D.C; with my new 50mm lens.



Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 10:39:39 AM EST
How are you enjoying the 50mm?
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 11:07:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I haven't used it too much yet. I was suffering from allergies for 10 days so I wasn't in the mood to take too many photos. Now I'm OK.
I'll be using it a lot this weekend. I'm in Florida and we're having a reunion of cousins (my mothers side) and some of their kids. So I'm going to take a lot of photos with my 50mm lens. We're expecting about 21 people so my Nikon will be busy.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 11:37:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

That creaking sound was me opening the ancient archives. My scanner is working again.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 11:15:15 AM EST
Great shot, such good framing.
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 11:46:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, the magic of cropping.

Though, to be fair, I'm reasonably certain I shot it with the cropping planned in my head. I'm guessing that that is a 50mm lens, and I think it might be with a Nikon FT3, shot on B&W.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 11:49:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Phew...nearly had a heart attack thinking you had posted one of those ancient photos you sent me earlier!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars. Oscar Wilde
by Sam on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 12:26:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Now you're just tempting me.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 12:33:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What photos would those be?

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 12:34:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Long shot from 12th and N.Y. Ave looking uptown. I think that's the White House in the background; but it might be the Treasury Building.



Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 11:47:02 AM EST
The adaptor on my scanner (a HP Scanjet 3670) is crap:

Look at the noise in the dark sections - and that's after the JPG compression.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 12:26:18 PM EST
Thursday Market, Delft (sorry for the thumbnails, but they would've been much too large otherwise)

Fruit & veg


Lekkerbek


Clothes merchant


The haring man


What's a woepie anyway?

You have a normal feeling for a moment, then it passes. --More--

by tzt (tzt) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 01:19:11 PM EST
I took this picture Wednesday.  There have been years where there might already be 60 cm of snow on the ground.

But as we all know, global warming is a lefty hoax.

"Remember the I35W bridge--who needs terrorists when there are Republicans"

by techno (reply@elegant-technology.com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 01:30:09 PM EST
"The Rich and the Poor", Addis Ababa, 1994.  View of Hilton's clay tennis courts and cultivated grounds with shanties just beyond .



I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears

by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 03:33:39 PM EST
...and my Irish Catholic friend Paul was worried when we paused our walk to take this photo. He grew up nearly a priest, while I listened to the Rev. Ian Paisley. As we carefully walked through beautiful Belfast, neither of us could understand the need for violence in this place. And neither could anyone else we met that day.




I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears

by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 03:43:05 PM EST

Dangerous goat attack on American Embassy, Khartoum


Finally, attack repulsed!

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears

by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 03:45:59 PM EST

Classic view of the falls from the Zambezi River bridge crossing between Zambia and Zimbabwe.


View of the falls and Zambezi gorge from Zambia side.


Slightly different views of the gorge.


I honestly thought we would be attending funerals when two of my coworkers climbed onto this narrow, slippery outcropping overlooking the gorge.


Yes, yes I'm Livingston, but who are you?  Livingston, Zambia 1994.


I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears

by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 03:58:30 PM EST
These are spectacular, Gringo.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 04:38:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Vic Falls is spectacular, about 3kms of falls with different vistas at every turn.  These photos, taken in 1994, during a six week working trip to Zambia, Angola and Cameroon, renewed my interest in photography. I took a very inexpensive point and shoot camera on the trip and it crapped out during roll three at Vic Falls.  Not only did most of the photos turn out really bad (these pix don't begin to do justice to the beauty of the Falls) but I had no camera for the remainder of the trip.  When I returned home I had my old 35mm Yashica SLR repaired and started looking for a new one.

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears
by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 07:31:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Cardiff rooftops. I took this today with a friend's 80-400 lens @ 370mm, on my rock solid tripod. I was so impressed with it. I was on the top (23rd) floor of what is shamefully, the tallest building in Wales.



by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 04:21:49 PM EST
It looks like what I would imagine a Welch city would look like.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 04:37:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Welch?  Does Ted have an empire I don't know about?
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 04:38:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I wondered if I was misspelling it. I had that little squigley red line under "Welch" but I didn't pay attention. (Just as with "squigley" here.) I feel ashamed.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 04:53:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And right in the middle of all this is the Castle and Bute Park. Smack bang in the middle of the city.



by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 04:45:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Everything is close together, those terraced houses were slightly out of this picture but here we have a main road through the city, parts of the shopping streets, the castle grounds, and the stadium.


The weird colouring was due to reflections and tints on the windows.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 05:08:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Are these all taken with the same lens?

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 05:26:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
These ones were yes.  I covet that lens but I rarely make good use of longer lenses like that so it wouldn't be worth the money for me.
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 05:50:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I Really like this one IW.

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears
by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 07:34:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
View from takeoff Wednesday at 8:a.m. at Washington National on flight to Florida.



Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 04:42:54 PM EST
That came out really well!
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 04:43:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Another shot wit view of wing.



Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 05:23:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The grid structure for the roads in the states always amazes me. Is it the same everywhere? Even rural areas and little towns?  Didn't some places grow naturally form tiny settlements?
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 05:24:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The layout does not resemble Paris, does it?

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 05:38:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
USA was settled and surveyed by Cartesians.  VERY difficult to get lost in most parts.

"Remember the I35W bridge--who needs terrorists when there are Republicans"
by techno (reply@elegant-technology.com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 06:03:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The grid structure for the roads in the states always amazes me. Is it the same everywhere? Even rural areas and little towns?  Didn't some places grow naturally form tiny settlements?

Most of the western part of the U.S., with the exception of Texas (which is essentially a different country in many respects), was originally surveyed using the Public Land Survey System, invented by Thomas Jefferson. It involves a handful of baselines and associated meridians (you find a regional Baseline Road in various places, such as Boulder, Colorado) and then a huge grid. Each township is 36 square miles, each section is 1 square mile, and the legal description of everybody's property is something like "the southeast 1/4 of the northwest 1/4 of the northwest 1/4 of section 17, township 5 north, range 17 west of the 5th principal meridian."

Each township has one section allocated for a school, so in rural areas there are scattered undeveloped square miles that are owned by the government.

Towns developed since the early 1800s tend to have a grid system, but that tendency is reduced in the Northeastern areas that were initially developed before the township method started. New England is notorious for having confusing roads and town layouts. Big cities were laid out in grids because of unimaginitive planners. Small mountain towns often follow natural topographic features like rivers or hillsides.

Canada uses a similar system.

by asdf on Sat Nov 10th, 2007 at 10:27:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's really interesting, thanks!
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Nov 10th, 2007 at 12:29:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Washington's layout however was planned by a French architect.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sat Nov 10th, 2007 at 02:19:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes. Mr L'Enfant. Theres are lots of traffic circles in Washington and it's rather easy to get lost.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Sat Nov 10th, 2007 at 05:13:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Evidently, the traffic circles were designed to slow down invading armies. Doesn't do much good today against bombs.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Sat Nov 10th, 2007 at 05:17:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I am always amazed that some Americans (in this thread: you and techno) consider getting lost in cities with grid streets less likely than in those with more complex streets. For me, the problem would be if neighbouring streets look the same, not when there are recognisable bends in the streets and unique crossings.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sat Nov 10th, 2007 at 05:24:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, if you're in a grid and the streets are named "1st, 2rd, 3rd, ... Avenue" and "A, B, C, ... Street" you can always figure out how to go from A to B. If the streets have idiosyncratic names, then you're right the fact that all intersections look the same doesn't help at all.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Nov 10th, 2007 at 05:38:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Are street signs always well visible?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sat Nov 10th, 2007 at 05:46:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, they generally are. The situation in the UK, by contrast, is appalling. You never know where along a street (corner or middle), where (pole, fence, house wall) or how high (waist hight, eye height, overhead) a sign is going to be.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Nov 10th, 2007 at 05:51:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So that's the difference. Thinking of it, I almost never go according to street names, prefer a map (memorised or in hand, mostly the former).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sat Nov 10th, 2007 at 05:53:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, in that case you're right: if the map has a high degree of symmetry all the points look the same and there's essentially only one place in the whole map. So, it's a little hard to go from "here" to "there" as it is hard to define what "here" and "there" mean.

A few observations. One is that, in Suburbia, all the freeways, freeway exits, service areas and town crossings look and feel very similar, almost interchangeable. This can be disconcerting. Someone called this "no-places".

Another is that this uniformity is actually by design and is part of the business model of restaurant chains such as McDonald's, or store chains and supermarkets. The idea is that if the shopping or eating experience is the same no matter where you are, it's supposed to be reassuring to the traveller, or the person who moves house frequently. It makes it easier by design to move about in search of work, or to travel. But it can be an impoverishing experience compared with what happens when one moves to a substantially different place. By contrast, every country in Europe, even different regions, have different look and feel of the construction, and different business chains with different brands and different procedures.

Finally, I once saw a lecture by lee Smolin where he attempted to develop this idea that in order to have individual points the view from each of them has to be sufficiently different (and so, that in a highly regular grid of points there is really only one point).

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Nov 10th, 2007 at 06:17:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Okay, good, so I'm not the only one who finds British street signs insane.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Sun Nov 11th, 2007 at 04:27:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
you know why that is don;t you? They were removed during the war, so the invading German army would not find its way around, and after the war when they had the money for public services, they decided to privatise everything....

The other thing gone missing during the ars (and partly not reinstated) is fences. I am always astonished about that...

<this is a snarky post!!!>

by PeWi on Sun Nov 11th, 2007 at 07:12:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You must experience, first hand, driving in Washington,D.C. to fully understand. I remember when I moved there from New York, in 1963, my first several attempts at getting around by motor car were catasthropes. I would often end up crossing a bridge and winding up in Virginia. Of, course I stayed for almost 40 years, so I learned the city pretty well. And it was a very nice place to live until George W. Bush arrived.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Sat Nov 10th, 2007 at 05:59:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If roundabouts were the problem, wasn't your current home Paris a lot more confusing?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sat Nov 10th, 2007 at 06:03:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Of course. I hate driving in Paris. When I go in to spend two days in my studio there, I park the car and don't touch it until I go home to the country.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Sun Nov 11th, 2007 at 12:16:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
(Note: I don't drive, so I may not get some subtlety of the problem.)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sat Nov 10th, 2007 at 06:04:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It really must be experienced to be appreciated.  I've never seen people drive like this.  Not in Palm Beach, not in Miami, not in Atlanta.  Hell, not even in Tallahassee surrounded by half-drunken college students in tricked out sports cars.

My attempts were equally, if not more, hideous.  A friend and I had taken a ride around downtown, since he'd never visited.  Needed to get on Memorial to get back across the river to the Parkway.  Somehow wound up on Ohio.  "Do you know where we need to be?" he asked.  "Yeah, about a hundred feet higher and going West."

Wound up spending an hour and a half going up to, and then through, Georgetown to the Key Bridge.

Needless to say, I'm not a big fan of Mr L'Enfant, and I haven't driven in the city since.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Sun Nov 11th, 2007 at 04:24:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Having lived most of my life in a grid environment, I must say I have grown very comfortable with the situation.  The first time I was ever lost was when I got to London at 21.  As i watched a group of taxi-driver trainees learning the streets on bicycles, I recalled that I had learned the streets of Minneapolis in three DAYS when I drove cab.  So call me a Cartesian.

"Remember the I35W bridge--who needs terrorists when there are Republicans"
by techno (reply@elegant-technology.com) on Sun Nov 11th, 2007 at 01:08:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So call me a Cartesian

yes, and utilitarian, pragmatic....

or best: techno!

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Mon Nov 12th, 2007 at 03:37:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What are traffic circles? Are they roundabouts or one way systems?
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sun Nov 11th, 2007 at 01:15:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes. They're roundabouts or as the French say, "ronds points."

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Sun Nov 11th, 2007 at 09:12:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
italy has recently gone bananas for roundabouts, they're popping up everywhere.

the best thing about them is how if you momentarily forget where you're going, (!), you can keep spinning till you find the right womb-door.

(disclaimer: i used to love getting on the circle line in london and going peoplewatching round and round for free!)

the worst...italians haven't got the hang of them yet, and sometimes stop and give right of way to incoming traffic....

still way better than stoplights, (boring and fume-y), or the california system of first come first served, (polite, but over ritualistic)..

i bet roundabouts save energy... they sure feel like they do.

as metaphors, they rock.

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Mon Nov 12th, 2007 at 03:35:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The grid structure is very old. It was first used in the cities of the Indus Valley civilisation like Mohenjo-daro around 2600 BC. It was theorised by the greek philosopher/architect Hippodamus of Miletus It became the normal structure of the Roman castrum and of many Roman cities built in the conquered countries.

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Sun Nov 11th, 2007 at 06:27:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
- chinese market towns tended to grow organically, without a grid - chinese cities also used a grid system from a very early date.

the model broke down a bit as the population shifted from the uniformly flat and dry north china plain to the hillier, wetter river towns of south china, where geography messed with the theoretical square city aligned by compass.

still, the old parts of most chinese cities tend to be nice grids, even if the outer rings have metastasized rather insanely of late.

by wu ming on Mon Nov 12th, 2007 at 02:56:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
grid system in Germany (prime example Mannheim) were built (or so I was told) so that revolutionaries could not easily hide and build barricades.
by PeWi on Sun Nov 11th, 2007 at 07:15:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Very enjoyable!  Thanks everyone!

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 05:40:39 PM EST

an unusual sky for these parts...

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 06:31:03 PM EST


'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 06:52:45 PM EST
oops that's not perugia, my bad

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 07:00:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 06:59:24 PM EST
lol, my thought process as I looked at the photos was - oh what country?  Ah, British. Welsh! Ceebs!
Great photos.
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Nov 10th, 2007 at 03:04:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]


'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 08:47:29 PM EST


'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 08:48:25 PM EST


'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 09:03:36 PM EST


'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Nov 9th, 2007 at 09:16:01 PM EST
You got the hang of the html! Now we can see the full beauty of your photos, Melo.
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Nov 10th, 2007 at 03:03:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
thanks, in wales!

most of all thanks to all who pitched in and helped me, especially linca.

i can't see most of the pix this week, dialup blues, but those i do see are so nice...

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sat Nov 10th, 2007 at 07:57:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

No-one seems to want to arrange parties after the age of 30, so we are tryng to keep the tradition alive.

20 guests (some on a ciggie break when this was taken) many of whom had not sat down to chat before. It was lively, but 'relatively' sober. We are still working through the surplus supplies.

There were 10 tiny courses which took about 6 hours. My daughters did an excellent job of serving. Many told me they had had a similar experience in their teens, serving at their parent's dinner parties. The overall impression was that it was a fun experience and they got to hear a lot of interesting stuff about adults that they didn't know about ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Nov 11th, 2007 at 07:45:19 AM EST
That looks like great fun.  I always got sent to bed before dinner parties started.  I used to leave it a while and then stomp in in my pyjamas to show off and complain about having been neglected all day during the preparations.
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sun Nov 11th, 2007 at 10:18:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Is that your house or did you break into a guitar warehouse?

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sun Nov 11th, 2007 at 04:44:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This is upstairs. I'm downstairs. Antique Strats are one of the better investments.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Nov 11th, 2007 at 11:44:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I see where it took place...

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Sun Nov 11th, 2007 at 06:30:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I hesitatedwhether to put this here or make it a diary, but then saw the frontpage promotion! ...so from around midday here, heavy snow began to fall. I went out with the dog, my camera, and an umbrella...

Still green under the tree:

The steps down to the floodplain/river promenade next to a walled church (the walls are the ldest part of my town):

Tree and its "shadow":

On the shore of the Danube:

My dog is a really bad model. I wasted a dozen shots as she always moved the wrong way -- below, the camera moved...

Where Americans would get lost (see discussion upthread):

Another crapola dog photo to prove it was snowing (re-sizing 'washed away' most snowstreaks on the previous):



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sun Nov 11th, 2007 at 12:07:24 PM EST
Thanks DoDo!  Snow is exciting. I wish it wasn't so darned cold though.
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sun Nov 11th, 2007 at 12:24:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sweet photos.

Ah, the colors in pictures 2 and 6!

Beautiful Hungary.

by Loefing on Sun Nov 11th, 2007 at 01:23:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
By the way, guess which ones I made with GIMP, and which ines just with IrfanView.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Nov 11th, 2007 at 01:30:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
GIMP, InfraView, oh?

What I saw was lovely pictures.

Do tell us more, though.

by Loefing on Sun Nov 11th, 2007 at 01:48:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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