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On Supporting The Iraqi Resistance

by heathlander Fri Feb 23rd, 2007 at 01:53:43 PM EST

Iraqi insurgents' claim to be "fighting for the liberation of their country" is, according to Prime Minister Tony Blair, "a palpable lie." Let's leave aside for a moment the question of whether it is appropriate for Blair, a man who deceived his country into an illegal war, to accuse others of lying. More important is that in one respect, he is right: it does indeed seem "palpable" (i.e. clear or obvious) to most people that the Iraqi resistance has no legitimacy. Rather, the insurgents are just a bunch of crazy-psycho-terrorists who hate democracy and freedom so much that they are willing to kill other Iraqis to fight it. It is not difficult to see how people could have got that impression.


On October 30, 2003, the chief foreign policy commentator for the liberal New York Times, Thomas Friedman, wrote:

"The people who mounted the attacks on the Red Cross are not the Iraqi Vietcong. They are the Iraqi Khmer Rouge--a murderous band of Saddam Hussein loyalists and Al Qaeda nihilists, who are not killing us so Iraqis can rule themselves. They are killing us so they can rule Iraqis.

The great irony is that the Baathists and Arab dictators are opposing the US in Iraq because--unlike many leftists--they understand exactly what this war is about. They understand that US power is not being used in Iraq for oil, or imperialism, or to shore up a corrupt status quo, as it was in Vietnam and elsewhere in the Arab world during the cold war. They understand that this is the most radical-liberal revolutionary war the US has ever launched--a war of choice to install some democracy in the heart of the Arab-Muslim world."

In a speech in 2004, President Bush described the insurgency thus:

"They seek the total control of every person in mind and soul; a harsh society in which women are voiceless and brutalized. They seek bases of operation to train more killers and export more violence. They commit dramatic acts of murder to shock, frighten and demoralize civilized nations, hoping we will retreat from the world and give them free reign. They seek weapons of mass destruction to impose their will through blackmail and catastrophic attacks."

In June 2004, ITV News described the insurgents as "determined and brutal terrorists". Liberal commentator Michael Ignatieff branded the resistance "hateful" in the New York Times on June 27 2004, whilst in July, the BBC's flagship current affairs programme - Newsnight - reported that insurgent attacks were "blighting US attempts to bring peace and stability to Iraq". On October 1 2004, the BBC's Nicholas Witchell described a series of insurgent attacks as "intended to undermine the future". In September, the same journalist reported,

"As is so often the case in this conflict it's the Iraqi civilian population which suffers the greatest loss of life - either as a result of mistakes by the Americans, or, far more frequently, of course, as a result of the bombs and the bullets of the insurgents."

In July 2005, a Guardian article approvingly cited a spokesman for Iraqi President Jalal Talabani as saying,

"Take a good look at these figures. They show that the real aim of the insurgents is simply to kill as many people as they can.

"All civilians are targets: young and old, male and female, Sunni, Shia or Kurd. It should also tell you more and more about those who talk of "an honest resistance".

On September 1 2006, Edward Wong reported in the New York Times that,

"Since Sunday, more than 300 Iraqis have been killed in bombings, murders and a deadly pipeline explosion...The violence is generally believed to be the work of insurgents, militias and criminal gangs embroiled in Sunni-Shiite sectarian strife",

thereby grouping "insurgents" with "militias and criminal gangs", involved in "Sunni-Shiite sectarian strife" as opposed to fighting the occupation.

Of course, the insurgency has no "popular support" (Charles Krauthammer, FOX News, May 2004), or else the extent of Iraqi support for the insurgency is "unknown" (USA Today, May 2004).

Writing in The Guardian yesterday, Peter Beaumont depicts the insurgents as brutal and immoral "jihadi fighters", who "use human shields and force children to run weapons for them." Meanwhile, the occupying forces are painted as benevolent bystanders, trying their hardest to combat the evil jihadis whilst sparing innocent civilian lives.

The demonisation of the Iraqi insurgency is understandable. It is in the interests of the political elites, and the corporate media that serve them, to portray any opposition to Western imperial policies as illegitimate, terroristic and barbaric. That an imperialistic or occupying power will attempt to demonise any resistance to it is a historical universal, as writer and activist Tariq Ali points out:

"Every resistance movement against imperialism has been categorised as terrorist < the Mau Mau in Kenya were demonised and brutally tortured by the British; the Algerian FLN by the French; the Vietnamese by the French and the Americans.

Today Israel's Ariel Sharon refers to Palestinians as terrorists, Russia's Vladimir Putin crushes the Chechens in the name of fighting terror and Tony Blair is assaulting traditional civil liberties in this country in the name of fighting terror. It's hardly surprising that the Iraqi resistance is characterised in the same fashion."

A quick examination of the reality, however, tells a very different story. Firstly, the Iraqi resistance is overwhelmingly indigenous. According to Major General Joseph Taluto, "99.9 per cent" of militants captured fighting U.S. forces in Iraq are Iraqi. When U.S. and Iraqi soldiers `methodically swept through Tall Afar' in the largest counter-insurgency operation of 2005, they killed nearly 200 insurgents and detained close to 1,000. All those detained were Iraqi. Serious analysts of the occupation have long recognised that, in Scott Ritter's words, the "anti-US resistance in Iraq today is Iraqi in nature, and more broadly based and deeply rooted than acknowledged." In a recent article for the International Journal of Contemporary Iraqi Studies, Stephen Zunes writes (.pdf) that "the al-Qaeda-inspired jihadists and the foreign fighters upon whom the Bush administration has focused represent only a small minority of the insurgency." The U.S. and UK governments, together with the Western media, focus disproportionately on the very few foreign fighters present in Iraq to minimise Iraqi opposition to the occupation and to delegitimise the resistance. In addition, as Zunes explains, branding the entire resistance movement "terrorists" (or by focusing disproportionately on al-Qaeda's small role in the insurgency, thereby associating the insurgency as a whole with terrorism) enables Bush and Blair to present Iraq as a front in the "war on terror", whereas in fact it is nothing of the sort, and to "portray the US invasion and occupation of Iraq not as an act of aggression - as most of the international community sees it - but as an act of self-defence. By extension, it seeks to portray those who oppose the ongoing US occupation as appeasers or even supporters of totalitarianism and violence." According to Zunes, the number of foreign insurgents fighting with an agenda even remotely resembling that described by President Bush above constitutes "well under 5 per cent of the armed resistance."

Speaking yesterday, Tony Blair encapsulated perfectly this fallacy about the Iraqi resistance:

"These forces that are operating in Iraq at the moment are not the fault of a lack of planning or administration. It is a deliberate attempt [by] external extremists, like al-Qaida [and] like elements connected to Iran, who are linking up with internal extremists to thwart the will of the majority."

Why mention al-Qaeda, which represents a tiny proportion of the insurgency, except in order to demonise the resistance by associating it with the ultimate bogeyman? This extract from Blair's speech also contains another major misrepresentation of the resistance: that it is composed of "extremists" who are thwarting the "will of the majority". In reality, it is the Coalition forces who are opposing the will of the majority in Iraq (not to mention their own countries), as illustrated by poll after poll after poll after poll after poll after poll. Numerous polls also demonstrate that insurgents who attack Coalition forces do so with widespread popular support. Only two conclusions can be drawn from Blair's insistence that the Iraqi resistance is not backed by the Iraqi people: he's either living in a fantasy world, or he's bullshitting again.

Another frequent technique used to demonise the Iraqi resistance is to insinuate (or state outright) that it is composed entirely of terrorists who target and murder innocent civilians. Once again, this simply isn't the case. While it is true that Iraqi insurgents occasionally target civilians, the vast majority of insurgent attacks target Coalition or Iraqi Security forces. Suicide bombings in crowded markets, and other atrocities like them, are usually either sectarian in nature (the insurgency is separate from the sectarian conflict, despite the deliberate conflation of the two by the media and government officials) or are perpetrated by the few foreign jihadis that are operating in Iraq (for example, Al-Qaeda). According to an August 2006 U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency assessment, of 1,666 bombs exploded in Iraq in July, 90% were aimed at U.S.-led forces. Fred Kaplan, writing for Slate in February 2006, reported that,



"New data reveal, surprisingly, that the vast majority of the Iraqi insurgents' attacks are still aimed not at Iraqi security forces or at civilians, but rather at U.S. and coalition troops. In other words, as much as was the case a year or two ago, the Iraqi insurgency is primarily an anti-occupation insurgency".

(via lenin)

The "new data" he was referring to was a report (.pdf) compiled by the multinational military command in Iraq, which contained the following graph:

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

It clearly shows that the vast majority of insurgent attacks have targeted Coalition forces, not civilians.

To summarise, then: the resistance to the occupation of Iraq is legitimate. It has the support of the majority of the Iraqi people, and by and large it does not target civilians.

It is in this light that we should examine the Bush administration's attempts to vilify alleged Iranian support for Iraqi insurgents, possibly with a view to providing a pretext for a war with Iran. In Bush's words,

"My job is to protect our troops, and when we find devices that are in that country that are hurting our troops, we're going to do something about it, pure and simple."

Many analysts - Milan Rai and Media Lens, to name two - have done an excellent job in demolishing the "evidence" provided by the Bush administration blaming Iran for insurgent attacks on U.S. troops in Iraq. As Juan Cole has pointed out, the charge against Iran is nonsensical in and of itself, since the only Iraqi groups Iran could plausibly be supporting are Shi'ite militias, whereas the vast majority of attacks on U.S. troops are perpetrated by Sunnis. Moreover, the groups Iran is being accused of supporting are the very same ones being supported by the U.S.

However, it is certainly conceivable that at some point in the future, the Bush administration will be able to provide genuine evidence of Iranian aid to militant groups in Iraq. Will it then follow that an attack on Iran is justified? The question is an interesting one: should we despise Iran for aiding the insurgent attacks that are killing our troops, or should we respect them for it? Certainly, it is taken as a given across the board that American aid to resistance movements is noble and just. As Noam Chomsky explains,

"There's a somber debate underway about whether Washington really has evidence about Iranian support for anti-occupation forces, or whether it's a replay of the deceit preceding the Iraq invasion. Strikingly, there is no debate about whether support for anti-occupation forces would be justified -- particularly when US-run polls show that an overwhelming majority of Iraqis want them out, either immediately (2/3 in Baghdad according to US-polls) or soon. The debate is intriguing.

There was no debate in the 1980s about whether the US had the right to provide support to anti-occupation forces in Afghanistan (there was some debate about whether it would be costly to us, but not about the right). It was taken for granted that the US had the right to support resistance to aggression. In Pravda there wouldn't have been a debate about whether the US and its allies (Britain, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia,...) were in fact providing support for the resistance to the Soviet occupation, because there was no doubt about it. The US was proudly proclaiming it. True, the cases are not identical, only analogous. The Soviet invasion, though criminal, was based on real security concerns on its borders, while the US invasion had no credible pretext. And there are other differences. But the point is that the right of the US to use force and violence and the illegitimacy of any resistance to it is a Holy Doctrine, which cannot be questioned in polite society, even thought about.

Therefore debate is confined to the marginal question of whether Iran is in fact providing support to forces opposing the US occupation. Similarly, the debate over US tactics is restricted to the question of what is likely to work. That was not the debate over the Russian invasion of Afghanistan -- though I presume it was in Moscow."

Michael Perry, writing for Antiwar.com, says similar things:

"But let's go even further and say, for the sake of argument, that the Iraqi insurgents are receiving officially authorized aid from the Iranian state. It is true that having a neighboring nation in chaos does not generally benefit any country, but the Iranians have been under the gun from the U.S. for a very long time - decades, in fact. The recent threats and provocations from the Bush administration make it clear that Iran is an imminent target. I'm quite sure the Iranians realize that the quagmire in Iraq is the primary impediment to an American invasion of Iran. Troubles for U.S. forces in Iraq may buy the Iranians more time. Could the Iranians be so blind to their own self-interests?

Beyond the practical justifications for Iranian involvement in Iraq, there are also moral rationales. If Russia were to invade Mexico, at least some in the U.S. government would support the Mexican insurgents against the Russian occupiers. And most Americans would back such assistance. Aiding one's neighbors against an unwelcome occupation is not only reasonable, it is generally considered worthy of respect."

Throughout mainstream commentary, there is an unspoken assumption that if it were true that Iran is helping Iraqis to attack Coalition troops, the U.S. would be justified in retaliating. There is certainly no suggestion from any "respectable" publication that the resistance in Iraq is justified, and that therefore Iran should be praised for supporting it. That such an obvious argument has been totally excluded from the mainstream debate tells us a lot about the honesty of our intellectual culture and the integrity of our "free press".

The issue of "supporting the troops" is a sensitive one - families who have sons or daughters serving in Iraq do not want to hear that attacks on them may be justified. That is completely understandable - the soldiers serving in Iraq are just kids, often from a deprived background, who trusted and were let down by their governments who sent them into an illegal and immoral war of choice. Indeed, the wish to shield the troops from further harm is a major factor in the movement to bring them home. But we must not let the Bush administration's hijack of our strong, emotional desire to protect the troops convince us that an attack on Iran would be justified in order to defend them.

Cross-posted at The Heathlander

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Interesting bit of contrarianism. I wonder, however, how you distinguish between the 'insurgency' and the sectarian attacks. It would seem to me that the two will tend to overlap.

This is also the problem with the alleged Iranian support. In case substantial support exists, it is probably intended to bolster (certain) shi'ite militias, to assist them with their fight against the sunnis and/or other shi'ite militias. Problem is that sometimes these militias also get into conflict with American troops.

Likewise, it was always the question with the insurgency whether it was like the ancient Greeks: uniting to face a common enemy only to be able to start fighting amongst itself once the enemy had been defeated. There was some measure of unity initially, even with sunni - shi'ite cooperation. But pretty much all of that has broken down in the mean time.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Fri Feb 23rd, 2007 at 06:21:57 PM EST
As the graph showing the breakdown of the attack shows, the groups involved in attacking the occupying troops are quite probably more than and different from the groups involved in the sectarian violence (the latter are just bloodier).

Iranian militia support is probably fictitious as it seems that the guys they are backing are in not out of government.

As for what will become of the insurgency: it seems that the majority of Iraqis figure that things will get better when the US pulls out - and their opinions should be the only ones that count on the matter.

Anyway I hardly find the diary contrarian. Commonsensical I'd say. After all, the UN General assembly has explicitly declared many times that all resistance to foreign occupation is legitimate, as it has many times raffirmed - see f.e.:

[The UN General Assembly] Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle...


The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake
by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Fri Feb 23rd, 2007 at 08:59:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The graph runs until August 2005. The civil war only really kicked off in February 2006. Also, the graph doesn't make the distinction between the different groups.

Here's a more recent one.

The piece is contrarian because it goes - explicitly - against the 'mainstream' narrative of the insurgency.

I agree with the Iraqi population that the American presence is doing more harm than good, by the way.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Sat Feb 24th, 2007 at 04:32:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Where did you get that graph from? Could I have the link?

The Heathlander
by heathlander on Sat Feb 24th, 2007 at 02:13:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Securing, stabilizing, and rebuilding Iraq (.pdf, jan 2007)

See also: this page.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Sat Feb 24th, 2007 at 02:34:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by heathlander on Sat Feb 24th, 2007 at 07:25:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
OK: The graph of course shows the targets of the attacks not the identity of the attackers, but two things are noteworthy:

  1. That the attacks against coalition troops, despite an escalating civil war are significantly more numerous than attacks against civilians (which one could use as a rough proxy indicator of "sectarian attacks")
  2. That attacks against coalition troops are on a generally increasing trend.

So there seem to be two trends here: a rapidly rising number of attacks against civilians which are obviously connected with the sectarian wars - and a less rapidly rising, but still rising on the average, number of attacks against the occupation forces.

This indicates (but does not prove by itself of course) that there are two distinct wars going on. However the fact that recent polls show public approval of attacks against coalition forces (a majority among both Shia and Sunni Iraqis) while at the same time being less then enthusiastic about sectarian figures, one can make the, not unwarranted, assumption that in the minds of Iraqis at least there is a very clear difference between supporting the resistance against the occupation and supporting sectarian fighting.

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake

by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Sun Feb 25th, 2007 at 06:34:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"As the graph showing the breakdown of the attack shows, the groups involved in attacking the occupying troops are quite probably more than and different from the groups involved in the sectarian violence (the latter are just bloodier)."

I don't think the graph shows that. Remember: these graphs are only document attacks aimed at getting rid of the occupation (i.e. attacks by the resistance/"insurgency"). They don't include sectarian attacks. So trying to conclude things about the sectarian violence based on these graphs is tricky, if not impossible.

What these graphs show is that of attacks aimed at expelling the occupiers, civilians are rarely targeted. However, for all we know the Iraqis who are involved in the resistance are ALSO involved in the sectarian violence. Well, we know for certain that SOME are - the attack yesterday that killed dozens of people, for example, was carried out by Sunni insurgents (I don't know of what faction). But we don't know the extent of the personell cross-over between the resistance and the sectarian violence.

The Heathlander

by heathlander on Mon Feb 26th, 2007 at 06:06:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"I wonder, however, how you distinguish between the 'insurgency' and the sectarian attacks. It would seem to me that the two will tend to overlap."

Why do you say that? The truth is although the resistance and the sectarian conflict are two wholly separate things in the sense that they have different aims, they employ different methods and they differ in their legitimacy, it is possible that perhaps some of the people who fight in the resistance are ALSO engaged in the sectarian conflict.

While possible, there isn't evidence either way - although what little there is points the other way. It is  generally agreed that the prime reason most Iraqis join up to the resistance is nationalism. Not Islamism, not Ba'athism - nationalism. A typical scenario is that a family member will be killed, or a friend, or a house will be bombed, and an Iraqi will join up to the resistance to fight the occupation. The idea that these Iraqis - motivated not by some Islamist jihadi ideology but by a desire to protect Iraq and their fellow Iraqis - would then go on to kill other Iraqis in the sectarian conflict doesn't seem to make much sense.

In any case, we can see that the vast majority of resistance attacks have been aimed at military targets.

"Likewise, it was always the question with the insurgency whether it was like the ancient Greeks: uniting to face a common enemy only to be able to start fighting amongst itself once the enemy had been defeated."

That's surely irrelevent to the right of Iraqis to resist an unwanted foreign military occupation.

The Heathlander

by heathlander on Fri Feb 23rd, 2007 at 09:11:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You take issue with a certain narrative of the insurgency, which blindly paints them all as crazy psycho terrorists. They, of course, aren't. But that doesn't mean that we should assume the opposite (that they are noble freedom fighters). This is the same excluded middle that Friedman presents when he says that the Iraqi insurgency aren't like the VC but more like the Khmer Rouge, because they are fighting so that they can rule Iraqis. As if the VC didn't want to rule the Vietnamese! Of course they did.

Likewise, the initial sunni insurgency was in all probability not a pure grassroots movement but something started by former baathists and army officials who were being excluded from power and often persecuted by the (rather stupid) process of de-baathification and disbanding of the military.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Sat Feb 24th, 2007 at 05:12:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I have problems with the argument that attacks on the coalition equals freedom fighters  as well.  While there may be many attacks on coalition troops, most of the casualties are civilian - and overwhelmingly non-combatant.  Why would a true freedom fighter bomb a market place populated only by innocent civilians?

While I was strongly opposed to the US/coalition invasion of Iraq and do not support the war, I find it difficult to make the radical transition to labelling the Iraqi insurgents as freedom fighters simply because they are Iraqi nationals.  Freedom from coalition occupation is only legitimate when the aim is to benefit all Iraqis; i.e., freedom for whom?  Based on the sectarian violence we see today, I have a hard time seeing an immediate halt to the violence whether the coalition stays or leaves.  If there were an overwhelming force fighting in Iraq, as the NVA was in Vietnam, then peace could be secured by brute force, but such is no longer the case in Iraq.  To make matters worse, Iraq is surrounded by countries that do not wish to see either a Sunni or Shia dominated government in Iraq that oppresses the other factions.  Say what you wish about Iran, but it makes no sense that Iran has no political ambitions/goals for Iraq.  The two countries are neighbors, fought a long war, and have are deep-seated religious divides, and Iran has regional ambitions that cannot be totally achieved if Iraq has a strong government that opposes Iranian domination. Likewise, as you point out, Sunni dominated countries, currently friendly to the coalition, will not sit by while Iran dominates the region.

     

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears

by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Sat Feb 24th, 2007 at 01:05:46 PM EST
"While there may be many attacks on coalition troops, most of the casualties are civilian - and overwhelmingly non-combatant.  Why would a true freedom fighter bomb a market place populated only by innocent civilians?"

The point is that, overwhelmingly, they don't. While most of the casualties are civilian, the targets are military. There is, of course, a huge difference between the two.

"Freedom from coalition occupation is only legitimate when the aim is to benefit all Iraqis; i.e., freedom for whom?  Based on the sectarian violence we see today, I have a hard time seeing an immediate halt to the violence whether the coalition stays or leaves."

I agree - and the majority of Iraqis do support an end to the occupation and do support the resistance. I agree that the sectarian violence will likely continue after we leave - although we have played a crucial part in stoking it up (perhaps deliberately). But that's irrelevant to the legitimacy of the resistance.

The Heathlander

by heathlander on Sat Feb 24th, 2007 at 02:12:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I agree 100% that we (the US) are responsible for the current mess in Iraq.  We should have left "well enough" alone and let the Iraqis decide what form of government they wanted and when to end the dictatorship of SH and Co.

I still find it difficult to believe that more attacks on coalition forces equals the huge numbers of civilians killed by bombings of various sorts. I believe that the statistic you posted are misleading in this case. Most of the counted attacks may be on coalition forces, but it is quite obvious that attacks on innocent civilians, while fewer in number, are actually more deadly.  Do the statistic include the rounding up and execution of civilians by sectarian forces or insurgents?  There are almost daily accounts of tens of bodies found and most of these persons are kidnapping victims.

While I have no doubt that the coalition forces have long overstayed their welcome and should leave, it is a mistake to mask the seriousness of Iraq's  underlying problems by attributing most of the violence to freedom fighters attempting to drive out occupying troops.

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears

by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Sat Feb 24th, 2007 at 10:03:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Most of the counted attacks may be on coalition forces, but it is quite obvious that attacks on innocent civilians, while fewer in number, are actually more deadly."

Indeed. No one claimed otherwise.

"Do the statistic include the rounding up and execution of civilians by sectarian forces or insurgents? "

They include them by "insurgents", as you call them. They do not include anything about sectarian violence.

"it is a mistake to mask the seriousness of Iraq's  underlying problems by attributing most of the violence to freedom fighters attempting to drive out occupying troops."

It would be, but I do not do that here. I think most of the violence is either directly perpetrated by the Coalition, or by Coalition-backed death squads.

The Heathlander

by heathlander on Sun Feb 25th, 2007 at 10:22:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think most of the violence is either directly perpetrated by the Coalition, or by Coalition-backed death squads.

Despite my own vehement opposition to this US led travesty in Iraq, I cannot accept this statement as anywhere close to the truth.  The truth is that Iraq was a powder keg prior to the invasion and the invasion lit the match that caused the explosion.  While many needless deaths have been caused by coalition troops, the sectarian bombings and kidnappings/murders, which comprise the majority of the deaths, can at best be indirectly attributed to the "invaders" and only because they upset the status quo by removing the Sunni minority government that maintained order only by use of brutal tactics that we observed long before the war. In making this assertion, in no way do I excuse the Bush led government from its responsibility for what is happening in Iraq.  The statement about "coalition backed death squads" is misleading in that it appears to label the coalition a willing partner and supporter of these muderous bands.  Please provide one shred of evidence that such is the case.  The support of a duly elected government does not equate to support for  this lawlessness whether Iraqi government complicity is suspected or not.

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears

by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Mon Feb 26th, 2007 at 02:53:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Quote:
The issue of "supporting the troops" is a sensitive one
---
Yap. But. Even that I thought that Serbs in ex YU had legal right to secure their homes and their future in Croatia and Bosnia and Kosovo I couldn't support sending JNA (Army) to ransack those territories and kill people there and that's why I had to fight Milosevic.
Americans had NO ANY LEGAL RIGHT TO BE IN IRAQ, or IRAN or anywhere in ME. So how the hell anyone in USA can "support troops". I do not support Australian troops in IRAQ for the same reason. They have no right to be there in a first place. So bring them home! That's what supporting troops really mean.


Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein
by vbo on Sun Feb 25th, 2007 at 11:40:30 PM EST
"Supporting the troops" is not the same as supporting the government policies that dictate their use.  The troops have little choice but to be where they are sent. Unless the US courts declare the war and orders to fight in Iraq illegal, any American military court would likely find soldiers who refused to go to and fight in Iraq in violation of the law.  If you have issues with Aussie troops being in Iraq, show your displeasure towards the government that sent them there, not the troops.  Listen to the words of "Waltzing Matilda."  The message couldn't be clearer.  

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears
by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Mon Feb 26th, 2007 at 03:02:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Confirming the point of the confusion, not just in the media, but in the military.

http://www.airamerica.com/node/3365
"US patrols still unable to tell friend from foe."

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 11:19:17 AM EST


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