Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.

Monday - Open Thread

by Fran Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 11:28:30 AM EST

My personal Sillyness-Award would go to this:

STILETTO RACE IN BERLIN - High Heels of Fire

Where would your Sillyness- Award go to? And yes, the Thread is Open.


Display:
Of course the OT is open to anything you want to share.

How was your start into the new week?

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 11:30:09 AM EST
it was a normal Monday albeit a cold one for August

how about you, Fran?

by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 12:03:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It was a relatively lazy Monday, cool, rainy, very un-Augustlike - considering that these are supposed to be the "Hundstage" (dogdays?).
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 12:06:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
my birthday is this week and I may have to head towards sunnier climes in order to enjoy it  properly
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 12:07:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, in this case an early HAPPY BIRTHDAY. You may not have to go south, some weather forcasts are anouncing sunnier weather coming weekend, even Friday. :-)
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 12:11:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
thanks  - I love birthdays, mine and other people's and I think one should enjoy each one of them to the utmost of one's abilities
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 12:14:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Tell us when it is and we will all eat cake in celebration.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 12:47:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm all for eating cake.  My bd is on Friday, so make sure you visit your pâtisserie before then, and it must be chocolate!  :-)
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 12:57:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Right that's written on my calendar

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:03:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So now you know my bd, who else will come forward with theirs?

Fran must be a Taurus
Ceeb I think is a Leo
LEP an Aquarius
Jerome an Aries
Helen a Gemini, no a Cancer
and metavision a Capricorn

am I right?

by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:20:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Helen a Gemini, no a Cancer

Some might think my opinions are cancerous, but I'm really just a two faced b*stard, aka gemini.

Interestingly, Mars is in Pisces. the guy who did my chart told me I was transgendered before I'd even fully admitted it to myself.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:25:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm afraid I'm a Saggy hairy ass

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:25:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
depilation?
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:37:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
fortunately the four hoves allow us to avoid anything like that.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:41:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not about mine.  What characteristics of Capricorn do I have?

Actually, I´m a wabbit.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:26:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nope no Taurus, but another earthsign - Capricorn
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:27:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Fran, I thought you were Taurus because you like to help others and are earthy

Ceebs, a Leo because you like cats, but I wasn't far off - Sadge is a fire sign too

Helen, I said Gemini because you are very cerebral, but then said Cancer because you seem to be home-centered as well

metavision, also earthy  

by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:32:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Cerebral ?? Me ?? Shurely shome mishtake ? Compared to the rocket-scientists here I'm one of the site's dimwits

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:46:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
really
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:50:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You won't get a 4 from me for putting yourself down.  Non-scientists have a lot to offer, you know?

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:01:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I do have a science degree, but that notwithstanding, there's a lot of seriously bright people here, scientist or no. So in comparison I don't really qualify for cerebral.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:17:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
puhleasssse...
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:18:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I agree with metavision, I would even want to go a step further and would like to troll-rate you for putting down someone I consider very smart, bright and interesting. So be ware what you say and write. :-)
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:59:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sorry. I have confidence issues, always have done.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:17:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
well, get over it and learn to accept a compliment by saying "thank you" <said in stern voice>
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:22:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
we're waiting ....
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:53:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
{tiny voice} thank you.

But it's actually very hard for me to do that gracefully. No practice

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:14:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
well that wasn't so hard now was it?

next step is to believe it.

by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:18:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
next step is to believe it.

Sorry, strictly reality-based

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:37:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
According to an article I read in Psychology Today, pessimists are more realistic, being able to predict the outcome of certain projects more accurately.  Optimists are often wrong, but they don't care and they are much happier.

Which would you rather be:  right or happy?

by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:42:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm a cynic: Being proved right gives me savage joy.

Beyond that; it's an easy question with a complicated answer. Happiness right now would be being allowed to be what I am and not be criticised for what I'm not.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:04:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ok.
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:10:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah, I just re-read that. It was a comment about real life, not anyone here.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:18:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
OK.  I'm not going to disparage anyone here, for sure not the width of your laptop screen, nor the voluptousnessigkeit of of anyone's dual dual drives.  I won't even comment on people's birth signs, because, well, we all can't be born horse mix-breeds with on target arrows.

But this is grin ridiculous.  I came to ET to find intelligent discussion based on the left, i.e. humane, side of the spectrum.  Why should i be forced to squint my eyes way off to the right of the screen to discern the topical mode of the astrologers in residence?

Let's all move the comments just a bit over to the left side of the screen, or at least we could limit our long, ponderous, even deciduous comments to a fraction of the space necessary to... i mean, if you have to post on the right, why not limit your comments to just one word.

In fact, right now i'm thinking of a word which best describes this comment.  And that word encompasses the history of drinking in Russia, where the daily gruel of the peasants was turned into the elixir of making peasant life pleasant life... Wodka!  I don't know what sign wodka was born under, but it probably wasn't one of the Twelve.  Hey, did you hear the one about Lenin's trippple distilled Tomb?

As long as we're this far out on the right side of the screen, did anyone see the conservative think tank blog which made the case that amurka should nuke Iraq and repopulate it with amurkans, like Ceasar did with France, and then Bush should emulate Ceasar and bring stability by ending the unworkable democracy and setting himself up as long-term Regent?  You've probably noticed that i didn't link to the blog, because i'm concerned for the mental health of the ET community, but it exists, and you can get there from Crooks and Liars.

As a lurker, perhaps i've overstepped my bounds treading so far on the right side of this Tribune, but i really did wish to understand the limits of the software, wondering just how far to the right this blog can be pushed.  But now that i think of it, that strikes me as a non-productivist idea, leaving me wishing i'd thought of a great one word comment for the right side of the screen.

Wodka!

(The preceeding was an official test of software limits, and should not be disguised or interpreted as reflecting the views of of the aformentioned commenter, whose system may well have been hijacked by russian hackers, and should not be deemed of any major importance in the context of global economic meltdown.)

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 06:26:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
By the way, i'm not a girl, and have never ("to my recollection" -- Alberto Gonzales) worn high heels, but i can't help but thinking that i'd run a hundred meters in the aforementioned stilletos if i had the chance of collecting 10,000 of them Euro thingies.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 06:36:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Jeebus, the software still works!  Should I go have a cigarette, the very symbol of why i moved to so-called Europe!  You don't have to answer, as we don't want to break the margins.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 06:38:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Though
I
do
wonder
what
Jerome
is
doing
on
the
left
side
of
Africa.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 06:40:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No practice? What were you doing in your previous life?
by Bernard on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:21:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Helen, how can you be a diva with an attitude like that? hmmm?
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:28:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Dunno. Am I supposed to be a diva then ?

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:41:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
every woman is a diva at least once in her life.

have you had your diva moment yet?  

by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:44:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Good grief, I'm barely started. Only been doing it for 3 or 4 years. In terms of adjusting I'm barely 17.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:00:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
  ;-)
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:04:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What was I doing ? I was being male. It hurt and was shitty

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:40:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hope you're enjoying your new life then.
by Bernard on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:52:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh tis infinitely better than before, but is a strangely bittersweet experience.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:58:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
well, that's where chocolate comes in...
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:04:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Fellow Virgo here.  

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:45:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
oh I wouldn't have guessed.  I would have said Sadge actually.
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:48:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm a quintessential virgo, actually.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:27:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I thought Sadge because of the love of foreign countries and poetry
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:33:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You may be seeing the rising sign/ascendant. That sign is typically your outer "mask" or how others see/treat you. It's also possible for a person to have so many planets in a particular sign that they take on characteristics of that sign, even if their sun and ascendant aren't in it.
by lychee on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:08:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, I agree with you - it is very difficult to just isolate the sunsign.
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:12:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Do you know much about Vedic astrology Fran?

I saw a google video about the Nazis and the occult and it said that Himmler's astrologer had correctly predicted an attempt on Hitler's life on July 20 1944 and Hitler's death in April 1945.  I saw his charts and it's all Vedic astrology, and each sign's degree is also subdivided into signs -Vedic astrology only uses some of the planets,  so it works out

by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:26:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I know about Vedic Astrology, not sure if I could say I know much. They are more focused on the sign of the moon and the acendant, however, also use the sunsigns. In addition they have 27 moonsigns. Further, one of the main differences is that they use the sideral zodiac instead of the tropical one used in western astrology.
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:31:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Vedic has a reputation for making very accurate specific predictions. How much this has to do with the use of sidereal vs. tropical I don't know. Heavier emphasis on the ascendant may play a role, but I'm speculating here based on personal experience with mine-- Western astrological influences affecting my rising sign tend to affect me more than those affecting my sun sign, and I can imagine Vedic knows something about this us westerners don't. ^-^
by lychee on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:00:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No one's guessed my sun sign, but they usually seem to get my rising sign (which they assume is my sun sign, of course).
by lychee on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:06:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
okay, let me try and think here.  I am not too familiar with your comments, but I would guess with your love of esoterica, that you would be a Scorpio
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:10:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, but you are closer than most people, in more ways than one.

I'm a Sadge, born November 24. So:

  1. Close to the Scorpio/Sadge cusp, which means I do have some Scorpio traits

  2. Jupiter is in Scorpio in my birth chart-- big planet, planet of luck, etc. A lot of "advice" for Scorpios tends to work for me too. (There's one astrologer whose gimmick is to look at the Jupiter sign and act like that sign, and I have to admit, that's really put a few more pieces in place in my life, though I'm willing to admit that power of suggestion may play a role.... Whichever, it's worked so far)
by lychee on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:22:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sadge would have been my second guess.

I also have Jupiter in Scorpio, at 24 deg, Ascendant in Scorpio at 29.5 deg, so first house is Sadge and Jupiter playing a big role because it is conjunct to my ascendant and ruler of my first house

I always thought that is why I was tall.

by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:25:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You lost me a bit. The ascendant is in the sign on the first house cusp, so if your ascendant is Scorpio, your first house would be Scorpio. Or am I totally misinterpreting what you wrote? I know houses can contain more than one sign, so do you mean the majority of your first house is in Sadge, while the very beginning where your ascendant is, is in Scorpio?

I'm still learning the house systems and am thus easily confused.

by lychee on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:54:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
because I am at 29.5 deg Scorpio,  my first house is about half a degree of Scorpio and 29 degrees of Sag, to simplify it.  
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:58:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Okay, I think I get it. Thanks.
by lychee on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:03:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So although you appear to be a bastard and a sex maniac on the surface underneath your laid back? ;-)

(5 days before me so I'm entirely similar)

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:40:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
you share a bd with Jacques Chirac?  oh, you poor man.
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:45:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's ok, I don't invite him to my party.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:55:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Could be worse. According to Wikipedia, I share a birthday with Ted Bundy.
by lychee on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:13:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, you're forgetting about my ascendant. It's underneath that I'm a complete bitch. ;)

Unfortunately my ascendant appears to rule my sex life and it's waaay far away from "maniac."

by lychee on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:00:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
oh, sorry to hear it.   ;-)
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:06:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In sharing a house with some Hippies 15 years ago, who were so new age  as to be untrue, A friend of mine and I spent an evening creating the one word description Horroscope. to instantly (And just as accurately as regular horroscopes) sum up everyone we met. I can remeber a few of them

Sagitarius came out as The one true perfect star sign (Guess the star sign of the originators) ;-)
Scorpios were Bastards
Pisces were Drunks and drug adicts
and Virgos came out as NEVER trust a Virgo


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:14:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
;)

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:23:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I find that too.
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:19:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I hope you announce it so we can drink and sing to you, poemless.  

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:58:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
can anyone tell me if women still get serenaded in Spain by their husbands, boyfriends or lovers?

I had an official serenade once when I was in Colombia and it was wonderful.  I recommend it to everyone.  

by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:17:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
this is a great idea for a small business.  minimal investment, gives unemployed musicians work and gets a lot of free PR
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:59:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hey, Izzy was just remarking to me that we should become freelance love-letter writers.  lol.  Yes, we should not underestimate the market for sappy romanticism, or what people will be willing to do for money. :)

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:26:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
in Latin America, husbands get up in the middle of the night to go join the band they hired to serenade their wife.  the husband usually sings along with the band.  

the serenading is done in the middle of the night, and wakes up the whole neighbourhood, but nobody complains as soon as  they realize it's a serenade.

cheap romanticism?  maybe.  but I liked it.  and so did my ex, and the band, and the whole neighbourhood who listened in.  

by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:40:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And once one husband/boyfriend in a neighbourhood has done it, the rest get told "you never do anything like that for me" forcing a few more to dip into their pockets, the more that do it, the heavier the pressure on the rest.

Genius marketing. ;-)

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:53:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I like the earthy part if it means, grounded, mature, responsible, credible, aware, fun, wonderful...

Before I say it, what would those that saw me in Paris guess I am?

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:46:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
of course that is what I mean ;-)
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:48:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't know enough about it to guess about anybody. So, you'll just have to tell

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:18:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
we're waiting....
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:21:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
<tapping fingers>
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:43:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
<humming>
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:01:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I would guess that you're a terrific... oh never mind.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:05:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
OK, ok, Feb. 22.  The best sign in the universe, right?  So was George Washington...

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:12:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Birthday Horoscopes for 02/22

The person born on this day deals with the world as a revolutionary in most chart configurations. This is to the credit of Uranus, the ruling planet for this day. The conflict between this planet and Neptune, the ruling planet for Pisces has an effect that might be considered by the people that know this person as being off-center and cynical. After all this nit picking of the person born on this day the attributes that stand out the most is is their true desire to be giving and having genuine concern for the fate of all mankind.

www.birthscopes.com

go to the bottom of the page and select the month you were born in

by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:20:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Talking astrology is a bannable offense on ET, just so you know.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:01:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
we're taking advantage of Migeru's absence to discuss the undiscussable
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:05:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, I'm back to quote Wittgestein at you: Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Aug 27th, 2007 at 07:34:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You can´t get us! na na nannnannanna

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:08:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
and shouldn't you be getting yourself depilated?
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:27:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Shouldn't you stop typing so she can sleep?

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:29:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm doing short comments really slowly...

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:37:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You know, for a subject that's "bannable," it sure is generating a lot of comments.

Uh-oh. You're outnumbered, Jerome. =D

by lychee on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:05:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
All I can do is express my personal unhappiness at seeing that topic discussed with such earnestness here on ET, and make it clear for the next time that discussing it after I've made that clear will be seen by me as an obvious ploy with the sole intent of annoying me.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 01:17:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Seems to me you never have seen the topic been discussed in earnestness. This here is lighthearted bantering about the topic. :-) I have to friends who are 'serious' Astrologers, so I know.
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 01:24:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That figures.

As an economist and investment banker you obviously prefer numerology over astrology.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 02:05:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The greatest difference between us J, is your compartmentalization of 'facts' and 'beliefs'.

For me, both come under the heading of 'perceptions'. I do not 'believe' that you can change the world without understanding people's perceptions of that world. It really doesn't matter whether those perceptions are 'wrong' or 'right', they need to be understood in the way that they influence behaviour.

I think astrology is poppycock, but the existence of it is fascinating, just as the existence of all superstition is fascinating. These existences are FACTS.

As you are well aware, a certain amount of social cohesion is needed to drive ET. You are also aware that it takes a tricky balancing act between hierarchy and self-organization to produce content.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 03:44:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd do a diary on irrationality if I had the time. We might find some useful insights into financial markets, religions, greed, unsustainability, alcoholism and a million other vital areas of misunderstandings.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 03:59:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Once again, Sven: focus and priorities.

You think astrology is poppycock (so do I) but that the existence of interest/belief in it is a significant fact (so do I).

The question is how much significance does it have? Should we spend time discussing it here? How much time, and in what way? What light will it throw on what? What effect will it have on ET's overall image?

(BTW, your proposed Jeromic facts-belief dichotomy seems to apply to you too, since you judge astrology "poppycock". How do you reach that conclusion without some category of discernible "facts"? To a true postmodern relativist, nothing is poppycock. Or everything is. Or whatever... ;))

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 04:40:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
well, what effect will discussing if men shave their bodies have on ET's reputation?

personally, that is an issue I could have lived without knowing anything about

by zoe on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 04:45:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Poppycock as a science, not as a belief.

Focus, priorities and social cohesion.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 04:49:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
yes, it's much better to go on and discuss the beneficial and wonderfully mind altering effects of illicit drugs all night than talking about astrology just the one time.  The former won't affect ET's reputation will it, but the second will condemn ET in the eyes of the intellectual snobs.  Getting stoned is okay with them, even worthy of praise, but not talking about astrology.
by zoe on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 04:54:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The composition and effects of drugs can be scientifically examined and studied, and the opioidergic and neurotransmission systems can be demonstrated universally. Whether they are beneficial to the individual and/or society, is a matter of discussion.

But I certainly was NOT saying that astrology discussion should be banned at ET. I was saying it should be discussed in the context of perceptions.

However I think J is over-reacting to an Open Thread; a section of the site that functions for the social cohesiveness of ET. And also reinforcing the impression that ET is 'emotionally challenged' or, in other words, not in touch with its feminine side ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 09:45:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
However I think J is over-reacting to an Open Thread
Is he really, though? I took both of his comments (1, 2) as rather tongue in cheek. A kind of: "I don't believe in any of this stuff and can't see why anyone would discuss it seriously, but whatever..."
by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 10:38:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe so - but J's first comment on Damned didn't appear that way to me. Perhaps he will clarify?

BTW Your comment links didn't work for me

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 10:50:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So what is "science"?

Social cohesion, I quite agree. I'm not against the discussion here, I joined in. Because I suppose it's good for a laugh, though it's 100% piffle.

For those who take it seriously, I think there are a lot of places on Internet. Once again, what is its value as a serious or regular topic for ET?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 05:36:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
you're being very paternalistic in deciding for everyone what is good enough for ET.

If anyone had called the subprime credit debacle "piffle", they would have been troll rated.

Let's stay civil please.

by zoe on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 05:42:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think astrology is piffle. If someone wanted to say: the subprime crisis is piffle, I cannot imagine why they would be troll-rated.

I haven't lacked civility towards you (or any other user), mmmm. You, however, say I'm "paternalistic" and that I "decide for everyone what is good for ET". Which is not civil, and is false. I'm not deciding for everyone. Neither, by the way, do you speak for everyone.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 05:53:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Because I suppose it's good for a laugh, though it's 100% piffle.

I don't know if I'm misreading how you meant this, but from the way that's written, it looks like you joined in to ridicule it.

Look, afew, I will never, ever tell you to believe in astrology, nor will I tell you to stop personally thinking of it as piffle. But the open threads, and even some diaries, have extolled the virtues of such topics as alcohol, drugs, ayurveda, kittens, road trips, Leicester, cars, gardens, and Harry Potter, and I can guarantee you that anyone reading that sentence recoiled internally and thought, "But there's nothing wrong with that topic!"

That's my point; as annoying as astrology is to you, it's not annoying to others, and a topic that you like to discuss might annoy others (I rejoice in kittens, but there's probably at least one ETer who can't stand the sight of them). So please realize that it's somewhat unrealistic to try to prevent most topics from being discussed, especially by deciding if they fall in the realm of science. I'm trying to be careful how I phrase that because I know you're pretty much just expressing an opinion, but others are going to have their opinions too.

I don't know if I'm being clear or just confusing the situation more, but mmmm has a good point with the drug diaries and threads. Not everyone here is thrilled with those, I'm certainly not. But I've stayed out of them for the most part (I had like one or two posts regarding lung problems) because I know if I tried to stop them there'd be hell to pay. No one would stand for my ridiculing drug use or telling people to stop talking about it. So I'm amazed that astrology elicits the response it does (you've been relatively calm, but I've gotten a couple of rather nasty replies in earlier diaries).

by lychee on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 06:22:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Astrology doesn't annoy me, lychee, and I didn't join in to ridicule it. When I say I think it's piffle (paraphrasing Sven's "poppycock"), I mean I don't believe in it. And it is a belief system (for some).

If I'd thought we shouldn't be talking about it in an open thread, I'd have said so much sooner. Of course there are heaps of topics that are discussed in OTs, and I can't think of an occasion when I have spoken against any of them.

But this spat today began when I discussed with Sven his response to Jerome. I think ET has other priorities than discussing astrology. That's an overall view, not a criticism of this particular open thread.

BTW, I think you can perfectly well argue that drug use shouldn't be discussed here (in a manner that "extols its virtues", as you say). You might find yourself supported in surprising quarters.

Thanks for your thoughtful comment.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 06:40:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In my definition, is the examination of phenomena and the construction of theories about these phenomena that show internal and external relevance or correction to existing knowledge, and that can be universally verified.

Science is always in flux. It is often wrong. It is always being improved. It is the work of scientists to improve our understanding.

Poetry is not science.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 09:53:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What effect will it have on ET's overall image?

We've got an open thread with pictures of stilletto races and crop circles, and you think astrology is the only thing that's gonna make people question our reputation?

by lychee on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 05:30:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The question is not the discussion in this thread, it's whether astrology os a serious future subject for ET.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 05:39:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
you sound like an intellectual snob.  are you?
by zoe on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 05:43:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You sound like you enjoy picking fights with front-pagers. Do you?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 05:55:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
oh the front pagers.  excuuuuse me.  I didn't realize there were two classes of people here.n  I think that must be one of the most arrogant comments I have ever read on any blog.  

as for your question, the answer is no.  I doubt I will ever pick a fight with Bob or Fran.

by zoe on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 05:58:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
and stiletto race heels are fun and there's nothing wrong with them

it's very paternalistic to be cherry picking topics like this and deciding which are ok and which are "not good for our reputation"

a very good way to hurt people's feelings and lose contributors

I also apologize for the comments about the discussion about drugs.  If anyone wants to talk about that, I am not the arbiter of good taste, and it's as valid as anything I have to say.  I was lashing out and that's not right.  

men shaving their privates on the other hand ....

by zoe on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 05:40:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
and nothing wrong with crop circles either.
by zoe on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 05:59:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Definitely not (and to ThatBritGuy, I wasn't trying to go after you or your crop circle photo either).
by lychee on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 06:27:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hi people, I love you all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So could you please exhale deeply and then count to ten. :-)

I lkove it, when people love to disagree - but I think we had enough. In the end we are just a big ET family! and I guess there are disagreements in every family.

And I hope your statement about not picking a fight with me holds true, mmmmm. :-)

Oh, and lychee this comment is not for you personally, I think it just fits in well in this place. :-)

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 06:05:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
of course.  your name holds a lot of weight with me.

you would never judge people that way either.  

by zoe on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 06:11:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We all love you too Fran!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope you didn't think the comment about stilletto races was directed at you, either-- I was just using it as an example.

by lychee on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 06:25:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I feel that on the open thread you have to "let it all hang out." (unless it's unnecessarily disgusting or demeaning)

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 05:47:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Someone's rather grumpy for having spent a week at the beach...

I know there's no sense in telling you to chill out.  Or in pointing out the long list of less than intellectually sound material you have posted on such threads in the past.  So let's just agree that there are many other diaries and stories to read here if you are in the mood for something more cerebral or reality-based.  We're never all going to share the same interests or agree on what is worthy of discussion.  But I'm pretty sure that censoring otherwise harmless banter is not the solution to that problem.  Learning to peacefully co-exist, on the other hand...

And if the OT is now off limits for silly banter, I'd like to offer up my Odds and Ends series as a safe refuge for anyone wanting to talk about anything they like.  :)

And as for the impact discussion of astrology may have on the credibility of the site, I wouldn't worry very much.  Most comparable blogs have a healthy dose of silliness accompanying the serious news, debates, initiatives, etc. they exist to promote.  I suspect it will remain that way until we are all replaced with robots.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Tue Aug 21st, 2007 at 12:37:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My birthday is Dec.8 and I'm a Sagittarius. What that means I have no idea; I'm totally dumb about astrology. I was born in 1936 so I'm a rat in the Chinese calendar.
That must be evident because a lot of people have said to me "you rat" during my lifetime.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:22:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What kind of small business were you involved in then?

:)

by Laurent GUERBY on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:24:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
rats are real sex maniacs.  
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:29:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not 71 year old rats.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:31:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I thought that was who they invented Viagra for
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:34:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It doesn't make you a sex maniac. It just makes you competent.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:56:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
well the will is already there, especially in rats, so it helps with the way
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:57:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And their sexual behaviour is switchable from frmale to male by flipping a switch.

http://tomroud.blogspot.com/2007/08/le-cerveau-t-il-un-sexe.html

(has links to rat "scientific" p0rn)

by Laurent GUERBY on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:35:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
LOL
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:37:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Laurent . How do you have time to find all of these articles? No wonder there are no sub-prime loans in France. The bank employees are all on the internet and no one has time to write any mortgages.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:59:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I (hopefully) do not work in the loan-granting department and I was on vacation today :).

Tom Roud blog is part of Café des sciences where a few PhD write accessible stuff about various sciences.

As for time, I replaced newspaper/book/CD/movie by blogs and web.

And about "old" sex maniacs:

http://fr.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20070820/tod-emirats-paternite-cb1d00a_1.html

:)

by Laurent GUERBY on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:24:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
They must have a very good "allocation familliale" in Doubai.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:06:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Forgot to add I've no TV.
by Laurent GUERBY on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:07:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was called that mostly in personal situations where emotions would often come into play. As I recall (it was so long ago) it was a favorite appellation of my first wife.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:30:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm another rat, mon petit rat.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:32:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
oh, a real infestation of rodents
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:48:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, maybe we can arrange a joint birthday fete at Chez Pradel in December.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:08:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Rodents only?

Or what other animals could we invite?

(Oh, but I'm not an archer, btw, just a rat...)

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:23:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm a pig...in Chinese astrology.
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:46:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Rabbit or cat, depending if it's straight Chinese, or Vietnamese variant.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:57:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sorry afew. Confusing my astrologies. We'll have to change that to January. 2008 is the next year of the rat.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:02:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Mine is on Thursday, so that's two cakes for everyone this week, please.
Luke and I went to London last week, and he continued on back to the US for some grad-schooling. Maybe I shall have some more occasions to write comments now, with my abundant hubby-free spare time?
by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:01:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
so does that make you a Leo or a Virgo?

and happy bd

by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:07:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Leo. Though I've heard from those with more interest in these things that I'm really on the 'cusp', and therefore have some characteristics of each. According to astrology.com:
The Leo/Virgo is a curious mixture of introverted and extroverted tendencies, modesty and flamboyance, and a capacity to see both the largest and the smallest picture in every situation. They are practical and logical, and extremely creative. Virgo and Virgo cusps are skilled at seeing all sides of a situation. In this way, Virgo exemplifies the mutable quality assigned to it. Leo and Leo cusps hold strong, steady opinions and have a strong ability to see their projects through to the end. In this way, Leo exemplifies the fixed quality assigned to it. Leo/Virgos are good businesspeople because of their methodical attention to detail and their ability to stick with a practical and organized routine. They are good organizers, and they tend to be popular, even inspiring.

Yes! I really do think I am both flamboyantly modest, and modestly flamboyant!
by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:17:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, let's just say your hair colour was a clue to flamboyance.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:20:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So, are you still in London or back in Switzerland ?

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:12:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nope, back in Suisse.
by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:21:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Happy Birthday to you too!
by lychee on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:05:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Welcome back, someone!!!  Send hugs to L. for me.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:50:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Me too! (On thursday I mean)

Not that I should be surprised at how many August birthdays there are anymore, but there are a lot.

by R343L (reverse qw/ten.cinos@l343r/) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:13:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
well happy bd to you, you Leo you!
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:16:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
more cake please!
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:21:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Happy Birthday!
by lychee on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:01:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Happy birthday in advance. Good luck with hte weather, the UK is due to have a sunny weekend. First one in months.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 12:18:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I finished two books over the week-end:  America's Secret War by George Friedman, the founder of Stratfor the intelligence consultancy, and Stalin'sn Ghost by Martin Cruz Smith.

I would not recommend the first one to anyone.  This guy actually believes that the USA wanted to declare war on Saudi Arabia but decided to attack Iraq instead to send a message to the Saudis.  That's his premise about the "secret war", just like Vietnam was a message to China and the Soviet Union.

by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 12:12:44 PM EST
Well, Happy Birthday mmmm. I saw last night that you're studying acupuncture. If you come to the next meetup maybe you'll get to talk to my wife who's an "acupuncteur" (fr.) She studied 6 or 7 years and practices half time. The other half time she works as an occupational therapist, her first profession.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 12:28:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
where did she study?  I'd love to talk to her because she has a golden opportunity to interact with one of the West's greatest acupuncturists who lives in Paris - something Sionneau
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 12:34:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
he lives in Paris and his name is Phillippe Sionneau and this is the forum at his web site

Helen, you might be interested in this as well

http://www.sionneau.com/forums/

he's very good at using acupuncture for psychological issues

by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 12:37:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
One day I too will speak french, but not today.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:13:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
so, post in English.  we are all in Europe now.
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:16:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
One day I will be able to read french, but not today.

It's difficult to post or comment if I can't read it.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:29:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What one day? suddenly? you'll just speak fluent French? I want your training course. ;-)

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:28:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yea, I will be Helen90 and it'll just take a couple of minutes (with futuristic music too)

The machine in question is a spinning dome code-named BIG RAT, which stands for Brain Impulse Galvanoscope Record And Transfer, or just a hi-tech  way of saying it can transfer the contents of one person's mind into another.


keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:34:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I do remember watching that as a child, but have no idea what was in any of the episodes

I also remember an even more bizzare series by the same people called The Secret Service

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:51:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Grief, don't remember that at all.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:00:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
with the voice between the tracks from Ogden's Nut Gone Flake

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:12:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My wife will try to get on later and say hello to you. If not tonight then tomorrow.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:33:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ignore this. it's already posted.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:34:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
She'll try to come online later and speak to you, or another night if she can't tonight.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:11:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I hope to be around
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:22:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There's a discussion thread on Kos on the possibility of a UK general election. It's kinda funny cos I just don't believe it.

First time ever I wish I could post on kos.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 12:21:36 PM EST
so why don't you'
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 12:22:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I ain't registered. I've never signed up for kos, I had a very bad experience commenting on American political discussions on another site, "you're a foreigner, you have no right to any opinion on the USA whatsoever"... that sort of thing.

So I just decided that I'd leave them to it.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 12:48:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I normally answer that with, "yes I have, it's in your constitution, "all men are created equal" so I've just as much right to complain as you have"

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 12:51:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Constitution confers rights on citizens, it offers nothing to non-citizens.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:10:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And I always get the declaration of independence and the preamble to the constitution mixed up. ;-)

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:23:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
don't let one ass stop your expressing yourself.  you know that there will be some people who disagree no matter what you say, so go for it.  

I think it takes a day to have your registration there functioning.  

And you know you have lots to say on the subject ...

by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 12:54:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It wasn't just one ass. It was simply experiencing a load of people whom I genuinely believe are quite liberal, genuinely resenting some bloody foreigner saying anything remotely critical (moi ??) about the domestic and foreign policies of the USA.

Even when I was out there it was quite bizarre to discover that, even if I agreed with friends who were democrats in their criticism of Bush, I'd be told "Y'know, we're really very tired of people coming over here and whining about our country, if you don't like it you know where you can go".

I genuinely didn't enjoy the experience and have no intention of being labelled another "f*cking european weasel" on kos like one of our front pagers. So I'll leave them to it.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:06:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
well, I find that Americans tend to be much more confrontational and this includes online discussions.  Instead of reading someone's opinion and thinking "That's interesting, but I disagree" they have this need to lash out.  

I know a lot of Americans will disagree with me about that, but that is the biggest difference between Americans and Canadians or Europeans.  

by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:15:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There are upsides to that, though - you generally know where you are at with Americans. Here I feel similar effects to what Helen is describing. People are much nicer "to my face" than what a European might experience on dkos, but I can sense a lot of resentment just under the surface. Redstar is the only person here that has directly lashed out at me that I can think of.

This also brings to mind something that Will Ferguson said - "Americans might be the loudest people in the room, but Canadians are definitely the second loudest."

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:41:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
you sense resentment here?  can you explain a little
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:47:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Resentment, irritation, not sure how to describe it. It's not all encompassing. I think it's an expression of European style nationalism, which I'm not qualified to talk about. On the other hand everyone is pretty open and welcoming, which is why I participate here.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:12:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Here I feel similar effects to what Helen is describing. People are much nicer "to my face" than what a European might experience on dkos, but I can sense a lot of resentment just under the surface.

Yes, I'm sure that can happen. I know I can be harsh myself sometimes, but I hope that most of the time I vent my frustrations on the US Government rather than Americans. And I'm also careful to be far more scathing about the British govt than any other.

But if ever I offend, I really don't mean it. I love the fact that americans feel comfortable and like to comment here. It helps.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:52:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Your recent comment that I lashed out against didn't bother me on a personal level, actually. The comments that bother me are of the type that relish in American failures in what amounts to middle class self-aggrandizement. That's what primarily bothers me about dkos, actually (I don't participate there either).

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:17:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't get it.  Can you elaborate about the middle-class thingie please.  I am seriously interested in understanding the dkos phenomenon.
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:24:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
what bothers me about dKos is that if you disagree with someone, you are automatically a troll.
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:30:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What really bothers me about kos is that if you criticise AIPAC you get banned.

There's a little group on there, including a coupla front-pagers, who will do anything to prevent criticism of likud-Israel taking root there.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:38:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't know how much of that is to prevent dKos from being called anti-Semitic but I also know that Israeli organizations scour the blog and get their supporters to challenge anyone who posts anything remotely anti-Israel.

that is one reason I don't give my real e-mail address here because I have been targeted by some of these people, and this, months after I posted some criticisms of Israel

by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:45:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm sorry to hear that. I too have a lot of criticisms of Israel's policies (see, even here I self-censor and qualify statements. I support Israel and its existence, just not some of its policies) that I've had to keep silent on blogs because there are too many people willing to jump on me and call me a self-hating Jew. I'm non-religious and have more in common philosophically with Taoism, but apparently I'm supposed to shut down my brain when it comes to anything Israel does....
by lychee on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:28:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hey, if they can tolerate a French guy...
Plus, who says you have to say explicitly you're a foreigner?

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:35:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, you're the exception that proves the rule. I always got the impression that your acceptance was due to commenting on energy issues, which allowed you to branch out into more "exciting" areas.

I just tended to wade into the conversation in my only-ever-so-slightly confrontational clod-hopping way and people didn't like hearing some foreigner talk about the USA in that way. On that site, my nationality had been well-established long before.

I really didn't fancy repeating the experience on kos.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:45:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
no, Jerome had to fight to get accepted at Daily Kos.  Luckily for him, he is stubborn so he didn't give up.
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:13:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/20/12048/6854

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 12:45:48 PM EST
he really is a war monger, isn't he?
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 12:58:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is this preparing the fallback position if Cheney can't bomb tehran like he wants to.

Bombing somebody is evidently better than bombing nobody.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:08:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I´m beginning to like this woman, especially if she was not involved in the politics of captives for weapons.

She does call HER own shots and avoiding 43rd was certainly her best one yet.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:22:21 PM EST
I'd still rather have had Segolene. I find it hard to believe that a woman who falls in love with a right wing twerp like Sarkozy isn't infected with a similar mania herself.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:54:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You´re right, but we all make "mistakes" and she´s clearly not leashed to hers, so, short of Segolene, she may just be a good thorn on his side to make him question life and the universe.  I hope.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:16:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Don't get your hopes up too high...
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:54:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]


Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:59:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have a hard time believing that anyone who married Jacques Martin actually marries for love.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:20:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
her father was a White Russian, so right wing runs in the family
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:25:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
and her mother was elite also, but Spanish, so = troublemaker in the blood?

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:00:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
her cousin is the mayor of Madrid
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:33:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, the butthead brags about it enough, here.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 07:38:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I completed on my blog (in french) an article about the roots of current crisis:

http://guerby.org/blog/index.php/2007/08/20/165-ble-oseille-et-crise-financiere

All the information has already been posted on ET (by me or by others), I just added one little piece of trivia.

Who said:


[...] But regulation is not only unnecessary in these markets, it is potentially damaging, because regulation presupposes disclosure and forced disclosure of proprietary information can undercut innovations in financial markets just as it would in real estate markets. [...]

?

by Laurent GUERBY on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:22:59 PM EST
I like it.  
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:35:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks, feel free to comment there :)
by Laurent GUERBY on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:04:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes.  As soon as you teach me French!

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:14:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
English is allowed on my blog :)
by Laurent GUERBY on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:17:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's good, but I can't get the fine points.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:07:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And in 2004 as well. Boy, is his face red.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:47:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'll bet it's not, because I'll bet he knew he was talking bollocks.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:04:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Fran , You missed this one from July 29, 2007:

RussiaToday : Features : Moscow girls run glamorous race

Not every woman can manage walking on high heels - and sprinting in them is way more challenging. The "High Heel Race" competition attracted about 100 eager participants, keen to prove nothing is impossible for Russian girls.

Watch the hilarious video.

Sillyness-Award cum laude!      


   


The struggle of man against tyranny is the struggle of memory against forgetting.(Kundera)
by Elco B (elcob at scarlet dot be) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:45:38 PM EST
LOL, thanks ElcoB! Just crazy!!
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:52:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
13 seconds is really fast
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:54:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd really love to be able to wear heels more than I do, but the pain of those thin soles does me in.

12 seconds for 100m is faster than I could ever do it in sport shoes.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:54:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I would love to wear high heels more than I already do, but they make me 6 foot four inches tall and EVERYONE stares when I walk down the street because how many 6 foot four women do you see every day?
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:59:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Just in my dreams.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:09:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have just one word for you:  "Everest"
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:15:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, I'm not much shorter and it wouldn't bother me in the slightest. Isn't it part of the fun ?

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:15:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have to be in the mood for blatant exhibitionism
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:17:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This reminds me: have you noticed that Cecilia doesn't wear any high heels, especially when posing next to our president?
by Bernard on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:14:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
yes,  right away actually.  
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:21:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Good thing you're not married to Sarko then... I'm not talking only about the size, of course :-)
by Bernard on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:35:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
if Sarko had been married to me, there is no way he would be President today.  I would have sabotaged his political career long ago.  
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:48:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's the spirit...
by Bernard on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:54:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
they sell gel thingies for putting in your shoes  in the drug stores
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:16:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
They don't work for me. I was told once that testosterone promotes bony ridges on joints. It's why males have bony knuckles. The same thing happens on feet and I think I've got sharp ridges that just won't work on heels. walking in heels is agony.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:08:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Via grist


A new study in the journal Science ($ub req'd) validates what many have been saying here in Gristmill: Biofuels, especially those from the tropics, are far worse for the planet than regular old crude oil.

The study finds that we could reduce global warming pollution two to nine times more by conserving or restoring forests and grasslands than by razing them and turning them into biofuels plantations -- even if we continue to use fossil fuels as our main source of energy. That's because those forests and grasslands act as the lungs of the planet. Their dense vegetation sucks up far more carbon dioxide and breathes out far more oxygen than any biofuel crop ever could.

Also posted on Kos - worth supporting.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:30:34 PM EST
Yet the Worldwatch Institute says (in a puff for a new book they're selling):

Food and Fuel: Biofuels Could Benefit World's Undernourished | Worldwatch Institute

"Decades of declining agricultural prices have been reversed thanks to the growing use of biofuels," says Christopher Flavin, president of the Institute. "Farmers in some of the poorest nations have been decimated by U.S. and European subsidies to crops such as corn, cotton, and sugar. Today's higher prices may allow them to sell their crops at a decent price, but major agriculture reforms and infrastructure development will be needed to ensure that the increased benefits go to the world's 800 million undernourished people, most of whom live in rural areas."
<...>
"It is critical to the stability of the climate that we prevent biofuels from expanding at the expense of rainforests and other valuable ecosystems that store carbon and provide other ecological services," says Suzanne Hunt, who directed the team of 15 researchers from four countries."Energy crops should instead be established on the millions of hectares of degraded land that can be found around the world."

"Current biofuels production methods place a heavy burden on land and water resources, due in part to the fossil fuel- and chemical-intensive corn that is used to produce over half the world's ethanol," says Hunt. "Farming practices need to be reexamined if agriculture is to provide energy as well as food for a rapidly growing global population that is hungry for both."

The book concludes that the long-term potential of biofuels is in the use of non-food feedstock, including agricultural and forestry wastes, as well as fast-growing, cellulose-rich energy crops such as perennial grasses and trees. Following the model of Brazil's sugar cane-based biofuels industry, cellulosic ethanol could dramatically reduce the carbon dioxide and nitrogen pollution that results from today's biofuel crops.

So, apparently, biofuels would be just great if only we didn't produce them as we do in fact produce them, and if second-generation methods were available (which they're not, yet -- and are not certain to become).

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:50:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
say the surge is a failure and the US needs to withdraw

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:33:48 PM EST
It all depends on what the criteria for success is when you measure the "effectiveness" of the surge. If you mean reality-based criteria then you detail things like deaths and security and political advance.

But this is the Bush White House where success is never having to admit you're wrong. So they kidded everybody for 9 months with this strategy. Next there'll be the "too soon to tell" strategy, that'll keep them going for another 6 - 8 months. Then it'll be the "we can't commit the next president to a strategy" strategy.

And George is home free, never having to admit he's wrong. Never having to pull the troops out on his presidency. Never being a cut and run president, never having his helicopter in Saigon moment. Back to Crawford and all his frat boy chums.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:11:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There are two aspects to this surge: military and political. The military aspect is apparently working, even according to Democrat Dick Durbin.

But the point of the military security strategy is to allow for significant progress in political benchmarks. That is where this strategy is not working. The fact that the Iraq Legislature took off the month of August was unacceptable. I cannot imagine there will be significant progress made in the next 30 days on the various political benchmark issues.

General Patraeus was overwhelmingly approved by both political parties, so Democrats will need to be careful not to raise any issues concerning his integrity. But will they have the toughness to hold Bush and Iraq to the commitments they made? So far Democrats have acted as anything but a majority party.

by BJ Lange (langebj@gmail.com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 06:35:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What with the current Acknowledgement by the British Army that now would be a good time to be somewhere other than Iraq. it still seems to me that Now would be a good time to go on holiday from your elected position, and see how things shook out.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 07:12:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
:) I think everyone else should have gone on Holiday as well including all the soldiers. I don't know why there was not more outrage over the Legislature's cutting out when they did. It shows how little they are committed to this process and what a waste all this was.
by BJ Lange (langebj@gmail.com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 07:29:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by Laurent GUERBY on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:39:00 PM EST
BEAUTIFUL!
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:45:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Transmited!

And taken less than two hours ago (before the rain).

by Laurent GUERBY on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:49:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BTW nice flower/insects pictures on this blog:

http://curieuxjardin.blogspot.com/

by Laurent GUERBY on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:50:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Wow.
by lychee on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:01:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Same spot one month ago was posted on ET, available here.

by Laurent GUERBY on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:54:07 PM EST
love it
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:02:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I am convinced much of the tension in the world is due to people not spending enough time staring up at passing clouds.
by lychee on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:03:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And stars too.

So true...

by Laurent GUERBY on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:14:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I agree.  I've noticed that Europeans never look out the window.  At work, in the tram or in the train, I am one of the few looking outside at the sun, the trees, the clouds, the weather, whatever is around.  

I think that explains all those wars they had.  

by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:16:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BTW, here is a band of french cloud lovers who share their photos (some are free of IP/some not):

http://www.infoclimat.fr/multimedia/photolive.php?s=&d=

Some are spectacular:

http://www.infoclimat.fr/multimedia/photolive.php?photoid=38659

http://www.infoclimat.fr/multimedia/photolive.php?photoid=39138

by Laurent GUERBY on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:18:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
thanks, another great link
by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:23:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
outstanding, laurent!

a sky to die for...

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 05:47:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
of the year.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 06:34:27 PM EST
"Wodka" to the left!
To Crazy Horse!

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 06:35:25 PM EST
Sure is a shitload of breathing room over here on the left.  Ahhh, here's to you, MetaV!

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 07:22:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm looking for the horrorscope thread... Is this it?

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Aug 27th, 2007 at 07:31:52 AM EST


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