Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.

Open Thread - Thursday

by whataboutbob Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 12:09:36 PM EST

Pt Reyes from Limantour Beach

Don Juan said that everyone has their power spots...the photo above is one of mine...a place I could go anytime to clear out my brain, to be re-energized, and find perspective. How about you, got any power spots of note?

Open Thread...


Display:
Its been so rainy, dreary and foggy here...I get to daydreaming about long walks on long empty, beautiful beaches (one of the few things I truly miss about living in Switzerland...no beaches!)

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia
by whataboutbob on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 12:11:14 PM EST
The blackberry bushes along the road to the paper shop are beginning to deliver lots of ripe fruit. A 15 minute walk seems to take longer and longer as I have to just check the ripeness of each bush.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 12:31:00 PM EST
Helen gets home with purple-stained newspapers and mouth!
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 12:45:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I try to keep it off the newspapers !!

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 12:48:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I recently learned that in astrology, there are areas on the planet where one will have better or worse "luck" than in other areas.

I'd go on a little more about this, including a free way to find out about your lucky geography spots are,  if I was sure I wasn't going to be censored for it.  

by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 12:34:26 PM EST
sorry, that should be censured not censored
by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:00:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
are you actually going to post every day on astrology in the hope that you will actually be censored, and then clamour that you are a victim?

Just for the record, the topic annoys me. The fact that, since I mentioned that, you have latched onto the topic repeatedly, with no content whatsover beyond saying "astrology", suggests that you are doing this specifically to annoy me. This, in turn, points that you purposedly want to be disruptive and disrespectful of me and of this site.

Therefore your complaints about the site, and specifically about the supposed lack of respect you are shown, are just a big farce.

Feel free to continue to make a fool of yourself. You mostly amuse me, now.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:06:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
no, I am not, but the topic of power spots came up, so I thought I would mention it.  I find it kind of interesting and wondered if people were interested in the topic.  that's it.  
by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:19:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You are a tease, Mmmmm....

If Solveig let on that she were a Virgo smoker, she would be in deep, deep, trouble......
;-)

To me, the evening thread is when we can lighten up and have a laugh: f..k knows why I just put in a serious post - I guess it's just that people have got tired of my Diaries...


"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:22:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
sorry, what is a Virgo smoker?
by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:25:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A Virgo who smokes...cigarettes...! <hiding>...
by Solveig (link2ageataol.com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:29:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
okay, that's what I thought but I still don't understand.  

anyway, there's been lots of interesting news lately.  I heard the Russians are thinking of moving their nuclear missiles back into Belarus.  

by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:31:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think there's a lot of smoke going on around nuclear deployments right now. I'd agree that Bush has got a lot of people worried, we all know he and Cheney really are mad enough...so there's a lot of pretending to rattle sabres that are probably not as battle worthy as they like to pretend they are.

Frankly, if the ex-soviet submarine fleet is anything to go by, I'm not sure the Russian nuclear missile fleet is in any fit state to move, let alone fly.

Still, they can say they're going to Belarus....

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:43:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I've worked with a lot of engineers who loved Russian engineering, and I tend to agree.  Their mechanical engineering is excellent.  Their electrical engineering, not so good.

Their aeronautical designs are also very, very good.  A lot of aeronautical equations are named after Russians, and a lot of numerical analysis techniques as well.  

They may not have had the money to do maintenance, but their mechanical design is built to last, baby.  

The most brilliant engineers I have worked with are Russians and Germans.  And, a lot of Polish engineers I have worked with have stated the same thing, surprisingly.  

So, I wouldn't discount them yet.  

by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:50:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
what would you rather do:

  •  take a Soyuz rocket to the International Space Station

  •  take the Space Shuttle to the ISS
by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:34:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Going there or coming back?

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:12:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
both.  remember that O ring failure for Columbia?
by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:28:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You mean Challenger?

You have a normal feeling for a moment, then it passes. --More--
by tzt (tzt) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 04:12:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
right.  I have my exploding Space Shuttles mixed up.  
by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 04:18:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I may have mentioned before that I used to know someone who was contracting on one of the iterations of the ISS.

I thought it would be fun to suggest that she'd like a ride on the Shuttle for a birthday present.

She said "Are you crazy? You'd never get me into that thing. I've seen the plans."

New Scientist had a feature about fifteen years ago quantifying the risk of the shuttle program and predicting that there would be 2-3 catastrophic failures.

No one paid any attention. But still.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 04:29:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I worked on software on the ISS
by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 04:32:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
on the ISS or for the ISS? ;-)

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 05:30:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Does it predict the ISS's position from zodiac signs? ;-)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 05:56:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well as long as it uses a compatible zodiac

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 06:04:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
come now, how unscientific can you be?  the horoscopes we have are for earth-based creatures ;-)
by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 06:06:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
One of my favourite space quotes is this one

"It's a very sobering feeling to be up in space and realize that one's safety factor was determined by the lowest bidder on a government contract."

-- Alan Shepherd

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 05:35:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And I'm a Fire sign who DOESN'T smoke....

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson
by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:32:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
you guys are getting me into even more trouble
by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:34:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What's this about Virgo smokers?  Not that I know of any.  Thank God.  But what's the going punishment for that these days?  In case I run into one, so I can warn them, you know.  Decapitation by windmill blade?  Or does J just nag them till they slit their wrists?  Should they flee the country?  Anyone offering asylum to the refugees of Jerome's tyranny?  What's expected in return for harboring such a criminal?  I don't have a lot of money but I can dance.  Not that I'd ever have to worry about that, of course...  <<cough, cough ... hack...>>

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:37:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Solveig is laughing so hard she can't even see the keyboard....

And how Headmaster J can possibly worry about astrology when his entire class are smoking behind the toilets while chanting eye eye, ai ai, aye aye, ey aye addio or whatever, defeats me...

Where's Deputy Head Migeru when he's needed to restore order....

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:45:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Chris, Jerome's not worried about astrology, he's irritated by stupid attention-seeking people like mmmm - the kind of person who rushes to be the first to announce that Castro is dead on the basis of a rumour in a night-club, then tries to blame the Cuban government - on the basis of that unimpeachable source, Bush and co. Then tries various implausible theories to deny the obvious.

The kind of person who says we can speculate about anything, but when one speculates about their motives in trying to blame the Cuban government, gets upset.

The kind of person who thinks it's "inspiring" to inform us that they have perfect pitch - hard work to achieve some difficult goal is inspiring, not a natural talent.

The kind of person who thinks it is cute to go on about astrology in the hope of annoying others and getting censored so they can seem to be a victim. But Jerome was too kind - I don't find it amusing, it's just rather sad.

By the way Chris, YOU might see the open thread as a welcome opportunity to "lighten up" and I'm sure you were making an effort to lighten up the atmosphere with your comments. That's fine and clearly many others feel like you, but some of us also enjoy serious discussion and don't appreciate time-wasters like mmmm (see this thread) - and I hope Jerome and Migeru will continue to be critical of people like that.

Oh, and I'm sorry that you feel your diaries don't get the attention they deserve - a lot of us feel like that :-)

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 06:15:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, I haven't got tired of your diaries. It's just that like a lot of Jerome's, I don't have the background to do anything other than read them and go "oh !!"

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:38:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
more graphs. I mean, unfortunately, there are many numbskulls out there like me who thrive on visuals. So when you are discussing your pithy topics, throw in some graphs and photos, and then you got our curiosity. It works. Ask Jeromë!

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia
by whataboutbob on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:43:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But for the love of god don't ask him using that misplaced umlaut!  

Then again, I could use some company in whatever work camp I'm about to be shipped off to...

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:52:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
oh God, watch out.  I once wrote Jèrôme instead of Jérôme and had to see a therapist because of the response I got from J.  
by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:55:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Then you shouldn't ever attempt to write my real name...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:59:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have accents in my name as well but it doesn't upset me if someone makes a mistake.  At least they tried.  
by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:02:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
For me, it is a mis-spelling, which smacks of lack of attention. Though the fact that in Hungarian, letters with accents are counted as separate letters in their own right, might enhance the matter. So unlike Jérôme, I also dislike when my name is written with all accents left off. (Then again, many people from Hungary aren't bothered by that.)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:13:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
in French, it's common to leave off the accents if the typewriter or software doesn't allow it, and people can still read it.  Not when writing ba hand, however.

How about Spanish or Italian?  anyone know?

by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:24:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But in French, changing accents would rarely lead to a word with a different meaning. But, say, vall means 'testifies', váll means 'shoulder', szóló is 'solo' while szőlő is grape, int is '[s/he] winks' while ínt is the accusative case of 'tendon'.

Leaving off German Umlauts is not a good idea either (konnte-könnte).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:40:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
sort of like a change of tone in Chinese then
by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:54:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No. Sort of like the difference between an a and an o.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:41:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, I just thought of the worst example: hat is already an isomorphism, as it can both be 'six' and '[s/he] effects [something]'; while hát is another isomorphism, between 'back' and c. 'well then' -- leave off accents, and it's a four times isomorphism!

I note that in ASCII times, computer-Hungarian was rather cumbersome and looked like this: ko:szo:no:m, szo"lo", ha't.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 05:04:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
DôDò?

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 04:44:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Now that's just silly.

-- ÑöŗďîĉŠŧǿřm

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde

by NordicStorm (m<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 04:51:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
poemless:
for the love of god
+
What's that suppose to mean?  This is a secular site.

The struggle of man against tyranny is the struggle of memory against forgetting.(Kundera)
by Elco B (elcob at scarlet dot be) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:59:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, you know the old saying, "there are no atheists in online communities primarily dedicated to European politics". Or something like that, I might have gotten a word or two wrong...

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (m<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:04:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I thought it was "online communities dedicated to alternative energy sources"
by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:28:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, I am an atheist.  It's a commonly used emphatic phrase where I'm from.  In fact, during one point in my life I was forced to qualify any discussion of negative scenarios with that damn phrase.  Old habits...

Plus, I'm on a roll with the rule breaking.  Hoping he will just skip the punishment and go for instantaneous death.  Hm.  Maybe I'll get the "guilletine."  he he he...

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:10:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sorry, we have another culture here...


The struggle of man against tyranny is the struggle of memory against forgetting.(Kundera)
by Elco B (elcob at scarlet dot be) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:42:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If I may be serious for a moment, I have been meaning to write something about this.  A French national, who apprently is also a US citizen, murdered a man in Chicago.  He confessed to French authorities, but France won't extradite him.  Does this have anything to do with the death penalty?  Illinois has a moratorium on the death penalty.  Why won't they allow him to be tried here where he was living and where he killed the guy?  

Here's the story:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chicago/chi-cornbleet29aug29,1,6080226.story

It's very confusing to me...

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:58:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think the European Convention on Human Rights might preclude extradition to a country where someone could face what certain dead white Smerican men once called "cruel and unusual punishment".

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:01:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Like I said, there is currently no death penalty in IL.  I see little sign of the moratorium ever being lifted.  He would get something like life in prison if found guilty.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:05:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Does that moratorium mean it is not executed, or that it cannot be handed out as judgement? And how easily can that moratorium be lifted (e.g. by governors' decree or something more serious)?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:44:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I really don't know if they can hand out the sentence.  I know the last Gov., a Republican, commuted the sentences of everyone on Death Row at the time.  I don't know if anyone has been given that sentence since.  Surely more heinous crimes have been committed.  

I think it is the State Legislature that must overturn the moratorium.  I've not heard many calls for it.  The Gov. who imposed it did so because a slew of people on Death Row were proven innocent or did not get fair hearings.  So he said, no death penalthy until we can insure no innocent people are put to death.  Which is an impossible standard and in effect abolishing the dealth penalty without having public support to do so.  

I suppose it could be brought back, depending on the circumstances.  But I think there is a lot of death/outrage fatigue in the country at the moment.    

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 04:36:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd say that probably, while that statute is stilll on the books, even if it's not being used, and even if there has been a moratorium against it being used, then you would still be classed as a state that has the death penalty. It wouldn't be unreasonable for his lawyers to argue thata future govoner could decide that the moratorium should end and so he is at risk. I think it is a general point of principal to not extradite in cases where the death penalty is a possibillity. Although I think that in some cases extradition has been agreed when the local prosecution has agreed to wave the death penalty.

The other possible reasonis that it may say in the French constityution that citizens cannot be extradfited to third party states under certain conditions. As An example of something like this look at Ronnie Biggs one of the UK's great train robbers. He fled to Brazil, and managed to avoid extradition for 16 years as  he had fathered a Brazilian child, and under Brazilian law, he had to remain in Brazil to pay for the childs upkeep.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 09:31:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There have been problems here with extraditions to the US for assorted crimes on the basis of both the death penalty and the inhumane conditions that people would be held in in the US - though I'm not sure that the last excuse held up.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Aug 31st, 2007 at 05:01:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Could a federal death penalty statute come into play?

Anyway, if we are to believe the claims in the article, they just don't extradite French nationals, period.

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde

by NordicStorm (m<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:04:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, I was just wondering why.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:06:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
When was the last time the US extradited one of its own citizens?

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:57:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Didn't the UK tried recently to extradite a British citizen to the US for hacking military servers?
by Bernard on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 04:17:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh yea, we do whatever the overlords ask of us without let or hindrance.

We are papthetic little adjunct state, our loyalty never even remarked upon because it's never been questioned.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 04:23:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Wasn't there a group of bankers too?

Wouldn't it be interesting if BAe managers were extradited over that bribery scandal that was made to go away.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 05:06:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No idea.  But we just agreed to extradite Noriega to Paris when we're done punishing him.  Which possibly violates the Geneva Conventions about handing off prisoners of war ...

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&sid=aCOmPSr4ctQk&refer=latin_america

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 04:24:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No it dosn't that is covered by articles 82 and 115 of the third geneva convention

from Human rights watches press briefing on the Geneva conventions

POW status provides protection only for the act of taking up arms against opposing military forces, and if that is all a POW has done, then repatriation at the end of the conflict would be required. But as Article 82 of Third Geneva explains, POW status does not protect detainees from criminal offenses that are applicable to the detaining powers' soldiers as well. That is, if appropriate evidence can be collected, the United States would be perfectly entitled to charge the Guantanamo detainees with war crimes, crimes against humanity, or other violations of U.S. criminal law, whether or not they have POW status. As Article 115 of the Third Geneva Convention explains, POWs detained in connection with criminal prosecutions are entitled to be repatriated only "if the Detaining Power [that is, the United States] consents."


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 09:38:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Only if they were going to try him in a federal court, and it doesn't seem like there are any grounds to do that.
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:06:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Simple answer; the existing treaties between France and the USA do not allow extradition of own citizens (works both ways). This is a legal matter I do not the details of but I think the Russians had a simular case lately with the UK.

The struggle of man against tyranny is the struggle of memory against forgetting.(Kundera)
by Elco B (elcob at scarlet dot be) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:14:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
from the article :


Either way, if Peterson ever left French soil, the U.S. then could arrest Peterson and prosecute him in Illinois, without risking double jeopardy protection, he contended.

Yeah, sure, after Guantanamo, it is clear the US has the right to arrest anyone, anywhere, except in France.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 08:22:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yer don't know yer umlauts from your circonflexes!

Social death.

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:03:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
what are they called in English?  in German, they are umlauts, in French, trémas, and in English?

the New Yorker magazine uses them a lot; they spell coöperate instead of cooperate.  

by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:07:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Dieresis?

Strictly speaking, a pair of dots is an Umlaut only if it changes the quality of a vowel. In Latin languages it is used to break a dypthong so they are not Umlauts.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:15:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Right. The Swedish/Finnish letters "Ä" and "Ö" are distinct, separate letters, and not considered variants of "A" and "O", so not umlauts either.

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (m<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:18:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually, I would disagree on that, at least for Swedish.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:19:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Historically you might be right, but certainly in the modern Swedish alphabet they're distinct letters.

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (m<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:24:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Where are they alphabetised?

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:02:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
They're the second-to-last and last letter, respectively.

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (m<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:09:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Interesting, didn't knew. For comparison, here is the 'long alphabet' from Hungarian:

a á b c cs d dz dzs e é f g gy h i í j k l ly m n ny o ó ö ő p q r s sz t ty u ú ü ű v w x y z zs

(The 'short alphabet' excludes the rare so-called multiple letters dz and dzs; as well as q, w, x, y: those feature only in imported words/names.)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:55:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
does Hungarian resemble any other language?
by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 04:11:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's related to Finnish and Estonian (all three being fenno-ugric languages), but they're not that similar.

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (m<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 04:18:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Closest are the other two languages in the Ugric branch, Khanti and Mansi, but those are far enough too. Of course, written language is much younger than the branching-apart.

I note all but 3-4 of the vocals corresponding to the 43 letters exist in French or English. And the very first, denoted with a, I know to exist in only one other language: German, but German-speakers trying to pronounce a Hungarian a don't realise until one points them out.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 04:52:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
and where are they spoken?
by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 05:28:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Here. Wiki is your friend.

The various Finno-Ugric languages of the Finnish branch live from the Urals to Finland in the North of Russia. I note some Ukrainian nationalists want to deny that Russians are 'true' Slaws on the basis that Moscow's missionaries Christianised a lot of Finno-Ugric people and  the populations merged... with present-day Udmurt etc. speaking populations as mere left-overs. No idea if there is any quantitative data on the mixing and on the modern 'Russian' gene pool, tough.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 05:52:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The alphabeth the way I was taught it:

a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v x y z å ä ö

You might notice that "w" is absent, but we actually dropped it long before bush became president.

I believe the finnish alphabeth is written the same way but å is prounanced "ruotsalainen o", that is "swedish o". So swedish/finnish alphabeth is quite right.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 07:48:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I first met with the usage -- where else -- reading a story about someone's Christmas memory of a freight train steaming up the Upper Coös River...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:23:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
how about Nöel in English, isn't that how it's spelled?
by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:25:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Far as I know Noel is spelt without the accent in English. English doesn't have any accents, so any word absorbed into the language has accents stripped from it.

We use context to separate Noel (name) from Noel (crimble greeting)

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:26:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
hmmm, how about the New Yorker magazine's spelling then?  cöoperate, etc.
by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:30:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
They're probably having a bit of fun. Like metal bands who throw in a few dots purely for decorative purposes, like Mötley Crüe or Motörhead or Queensrÿche...

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (m<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:33:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
no, they do it quite a bit, and they only do it with words that would really require it, like cooperate.  no other words come to mind at the moment, but it's not like it's not a serious magazine.  a lot of great writers wrote for the New Yorker magazine.  
by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:38:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think I've found the answer: http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~laurel/misc/CoopSpelling.html

Another more archaic option dispenses with the hyphen question altogether and employs the umlaut convention common in Germanic languages where a vowel following another vowel influences the pronunciation of the second vowel. Thus the words above become coöperation, coöperative, coöp, and coöper. However, this is convention is generally not used today.


"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (m<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:41:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
thanks
by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:47:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I would guess that this spelling probably went out of fasion in 1914 or 1940 (judging by This you might have had the same mentality at work).

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 04:07:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Recommended reading: Wikipedia: Diaeresis.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:44:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think the pedantic spelling is coöperate.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:38:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So is it the same system as in Dutch, where you put the dots ("trema") to mark vowels that are pronounced separate? (My favorite word at the moment: zeeëend)

You have a normal feeling for a moment, then it passes. --More--
by tzt (tzt) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:41:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes. This would be the third comment of mine in this tread where I drop the name diæresis for that phenomenon.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:46:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What, like, you mean when you put dots over letters and stuff?

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (m<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:50:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, like, only when you, like, do it to, like, separate a dypthong into, like, two wowels.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:53:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's, like, totally awesome, such as. But, like, I'm ain't not wearing a diphthong this time of year, it's way cold, like.

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (m<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:59:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In American typographical use, not British.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:44:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yea, I'd only ever write it as co-operate. The umlaut is only used by rock bands for some faux-gothic feel. Strange that poncy american mags and heavy metal bands are united in pretention, but hey, there ya go. :-))

In all cases, assume that in a dispute between american and english, the american use is wrong. ;-))))

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 04:14:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I thought you guys were the ponces
by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 04:41:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I've seen it both with and without, but then again most of the times I saw it with had been victorian/edwardian church music, so that may be a special case.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:45:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If that is in the lyrics of songs, it would be used to emphasize the fact that a two-vowel combination is supposed to be sung as two syllables rather than one dypthong. You would tend to see dots used in poetry when the syllabization is non-standard in order for a line to scan.

Recently I was recalling a Spanish verse that goes Qué descansada vida la del que huye del mundanal ruïdo... where ruido s correctly pronounced as rUI-dO but the poet needs three syllables to preserve the meter and so he forces rU-Ï-dO which is signalled in writing by using a dieresis. This is from the 16th century, when the preservation of meter was foremost in poetry. Nowadays, with free verse, people don't bother with meter and so they don't have a need to do violence to words with dieresis.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:52:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It is most strongly in my memory on the front cover of pieces of music with the titles in a gothic  script, whether the decoration continues over to the actual text inside is another matter, and I am dredging it up from in the region of thirty years ago so I can't be entirely sure.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:57:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Oxford Dictionary for Writers and Authors gives Noël for the name in English, as in French.

It gives diaraesis for the typographical sign ¨

directing the second of two vowels to be pronounced separately, as in naïve
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:41:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I always think it's funny that being a native French speaker makes me better in English than the English ;-)
by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:56:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I always think it's funny that being a native French speaker makes me better in English than the English ;-)
by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:57:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Le fait d'être bilingue donne-t-il le hoquet? ;)
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 04:11:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
dict.leo.org calls them umlauts in english too.  
by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:18:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Isn't that a religious gesture?

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:08:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]


Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:51:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe it got there as a typo on a non-German keyboard used with German special characters shortcuts.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:18:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I recently learned that in astrology, there are areas on the planet where one will have better or worse "luck" than in other areas.

Hehehe! Accounting for geographic differences, so that's the newest.

Account for precession or ignore precession, recognise a 13th zodiac sign or not, constellation of planets now and during birth (horoscope) or just the Sun's during birth ('normal' astrology), inclusion of Uranus and Neptune, not to mention Pluto... for me the trained astronomer, the fact that you can find a school of astrology for any prediction makes it ridiculous enough. Then there are the crooks, the psychology of interpreting Delphic vagueness as fitting for oneself, twin studies...

At least the astrology fans calling the Astronomy Department at my university were neither as numerous nor as obnoxious as UFO enthusiasts (ya' know, all of us actual and former and trained astronomers are part of the Grand Conspiracy To Hide The Truth Out There and so on).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:32:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In my introductory astronomy class in university, I'd estimate that approximately one-third of the students who took the course honestly thought they'd be learning about Zodiac signs.
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:35:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
that's funny.  
by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:37:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It wasn't so funny for the poor professor...
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:41:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My late professor, a man who could remain cheerful in every situation (yet AFAIK died early of a heart ailment) used to have fun with the astrology and UFO callers. Less so with stupid journalists who never understood even the basics.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:52:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh man, that's sad. And people wonder why astronomer's get grumpy about star signs.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:45:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ugh... Now THAT's bad! At my university, in my year, the number of the latter was zero, but there were UFO crazies. On the other hand, I know a genius of an engineer, a colleague, who swears for horoscopes (and dismisses 'astrology'), though all these years, I have not been able to determine whether he really believes it, or more likes the mythology behind it and the exercise of chart-making.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:47:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have spent lots of time in the Canadian wilderness and have seen strange things in the sky, but I still can't believe in UFO's.  I think that if one landed in front of me, the door opened, little green people came out and started carrying me into their craft, I would still find it hard to believe it wasn't swamp gas or moose farts making me hallucinate.
by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:53:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I doo believe in Unidentified Flying Objects. I have seen many flying objects I couldn't identify. Now whether they are alien spaceships, is another thing.

But the silly thing with asking astronomers is that people who operate giant remote-controlled telescopes that capture one small spot of the sky for ten minutes on a CCD and then spend most of their time (or, all of their time) post-processing and writing articles are MUCH LESS likely to observe a flying saucer than a common citizen looking up the sky on the walk home from work.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:04:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
<insert joke here>
by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:19:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I mean, why ask people studying what's 10,000 lightyears away about stuff whizzing by 0.00001 light-seconds away?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:27:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
so whom should we ask?
by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:29:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Meteorologists, air traffic controllers, pilots, people on a night shift.

Tho', among the most frequent UFO sightings are Venus or Jupiter after longer cloudy periods. Amateur astronomers can handle that...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:46:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
...last year in Fyffe alabama, they had all these UFO sightings. And apparently everyone in the town saw these UFOs. So I asked them what it was like. And this guy said "oh man, it was incredible, people wuz coming from miles around to look at 'em. Lotta people came armed".

People are bringing shotguns...to UFO sightings. Kinda brings a whole new meaning to the phrase "You ain't from round here, are ya boy ?".
I said to this guy "Why did y'all bring shotguns ?"
The guy said "Well, we didn't want to be abducted"
I'm thinking "Yea, and leave all this" Dude, if I lived in Fyffe, I'd be on my hands and knees every morning praying for abduction. And believe me, I would not be picky. Greyhound...Abduct me."
But I said "what do you mean...abducted ?"
He said "Well, they abduct people and perform scientific and medical experiments on 'em"
I said "Well maybe we'll get lucky and it's some kind of sterility/dentistry programme they got going. Maybe they come down, castrate you, straighten your teeth and split. A sorta clean up the universe pact"
He said "Huh ?"

I tell ya, that's starting to to depress me about UFOs. The fact that they cross galaxies to visit us and they end up in places like Fyffe, Alabama.Maybe these aren't super-intelligent beings, maybe they're like hillbilly aliens. Some intergalactic Joad family. "Oh, we don't wanna land in New York or LA. Nah, we just had a long trip - we're gonna kick back and whittle some. We're gonna enter our spaceship in the tractor pull...hu-huh"

Being invaded by rednecks. that's my greatest fear.



keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:19:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
LOL Of The Year!
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:53:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm laughing so hard it hurts!!!!!!!!!!!!

This one is for the books!

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 05:02:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I remember being in the woods at night with my brother who is a really big sci-fi fan.  

We saw a strange set of lights a few miles away over the lake, and I asked him to take the canoe with me to go check it out.

He didn't want to.  That was so cute.  

by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:31:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
the hallucinogenic qualities of moose farts {boggles}. Now there's a study that needs to be done (by somebody else)

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:11:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, I have sadder stories from that class.  One particularly cringe-inducing moment went like this:

The professor, whose full-time job was being director of the local planetarium, brought a very nice telescope to class with him one evening about three weeks into the class.  There was a particularly good view of Saturn available at the time, and so after class he set up the telescope and, one by one, each of us (about 150 students) peered through it at the planet.  I was tremendously impressed with the sight myself, as were most of the other students.  I stood nearby for a while afterward listening as my classmates oooohed and aaahed and wowed as they took their turns.

But then there was this pretty girl, talking to several boys.   In a ditzy voice right out of Central Casting, she said -- and I am not making this up, she said it in the third week of a college-level astronomy course:

"So, are all of the stars planets then?"

There was an uncomfortable silence.  And then one of her male companions -- and I swear I am not making this up -- said in response:

"Uh, I think the difference is that a planet reflects light, but a star makes its own light.  But you might want to ask him."  "Him" being the professor.

Sigh.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:58:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ugh... so they all went for the astronomy course just to flirt, or what?

I must ask for an upgrade of my cultural reference library on this BTW:

In a ditzy voice right out of Central Casting

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:10:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A lot of them were art majors; the school of the arts required only one semester of science with no lab requirement.  They thought it would be easier than, for example, biology.

Ditzy, I assume you know?  Stupid and airheaded.  "Central Casting" is a Hollywood-inspired term -- basically, if you're looking for the stereotypical villain or ingenue or another one-dimensional fill-in-the-blank character, Central Casting will send over someone to fit the bill.  Central Casting is actually a real casting company for extras, stand-ins and so on, but the name has come into wider use for stereotyped characters....

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:52:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
By the way, I didn't knew about astrology until I got into West Germany. Then for a while I mixed the two German [Latin] terms. So when I participated in a math competition for the school there, and the local paper interviewed me and asked what I want to be, "Astrologer" ended up in print...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:57:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
- Cars top 5 million on Belgian roads
Thu 30/08/07 - The number of cars registered in Belgium has topped 5 million for the first time. This total has risen sharply over the past decade.

The latest figures show that 5,048,723 cars are registered in our country.

If buses, vans and lorries are included, the figure approaches 6 million.

In addition a further 375,000 motorbikes are registered here.

     
 

Interesting fact to know: there are 10.4 million Belgians.  In case some foreign army want to invade Belgium: we'll simply put our cars in the street, nobody can get through this mess. You are warned.

The struggle of man against tyranny is the struggle of memory against forgetting.(Kundera)

by Elco B (elcob at scarlet dot be) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 12:39:44 PM EST
I'd love to hear your perception of the current political situation in Belgium (since you've done great diaries on the elections there back in June).
by Laurent GUERBY on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:15:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, it's kind of a soap for the moment.
Lots of spectacular tittle's in the press (country is falling apart.....) but I think it will take at least another two weeks before the negotiations will have some result.
The question is how far to the right politics will shift and the linguistic hoopla is only a smokescreen for this.

But soon as there is some light, I'll write a diary.

The struggle of man against tyranny is the struggle of memory against forgetting.(Kundera)

by Elco B (elcob at scarlet dot be) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:53:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks!
by Laurent GUERBY on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:46:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have wrestled with this awhile...but how do you spell "eye-y-eye-y-eye!" (or would that be "eye ya-eye ya-eye!" ?)

< Not sure, which is the correct way to spell it?? >

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia

by whataboutbob on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 12:50:37 PM EST
I have to confess that I have no idea what you're talking about....
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 12:58:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Bob's in pain.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:02:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
aye aye aye aye aye?

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:02:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think it's "ay ay ay ay ay" in Spanish and "aïe aïe aïe aïe aïe" in French.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:03:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh... he may be going for "ay yi yi"?
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:06:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ay yi yippy yippy yi?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:08:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Yippie-ki-yay, motherfucker"?
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:08:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And now I get called a motherfucker? :-(
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:12:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm sorry, is that sexist? ;-)

I'll try to refrain from quoting 20-year-old action flicks from here on out.  It's not very ladylike.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:14:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is it sexist? I don't quite know. It's not very complimentary for my mother, and it's not very complimentary for me either. Cuts both ways.

But, yes, I think you should be careful... ;)

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:19:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I certainly mean no harm to your mother.  I shall tread carefully through old movie scripts.
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:22:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nah, as long as no one starts quoting "Clerks" at length I think we're all good. "I'm not even supposed to be here today!" is about the only line that doesn't contain any profanity...

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (m<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:21:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The beginning of Speedy Gonzales?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:10:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, I think mig and stormy are on the right track

I think it's "ay ay ay ay ay" in Spanish and "aïe aïe aïe aïe aïe" in French.

and

"ay yi yi"?

I think the five "ays" (or aïes) are really a bit more exclamatory and intense than the three "ay yi yi", which is more like, "oh my gawd <hits head with hand>", but really not so intense. But..of COURSE I wouldn't think to consider that it is spelled differently in different languages...and probably has other cultural comnnotations too... "ay yi yi..."

(Well, I am sorta in pain...pain from boredom of not being able to move around to easily...not so much knee pain, though that is there too. Anyway, thus the thoughts of long walks on long beautiful beaches. fantasy, all fantasy.)

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia

by whataboutbob on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:35:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But..of COURSE I wouldn't think to consider that it is spelled differently in different languages

Just write what you want to say using the IPA and we can then figure out how to render it with the conventions of various languages.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 04:33:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That means yes yes yes yes in English...
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:07:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was thinking it a Nautical expression, Aye aye, aye aye, aye

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:09:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Aye aye sir!" = "Yessir!"
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:13:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
so it's just yes, yes yes in teanslation?

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:23:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Aye, laddie.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 04:34:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is it a cry of pain or a synonym of "yes"?

Or something else entirely? :-)

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:05:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Bad dreams:


The struggle of man against tyranny is the struggle of memory against forgetting.(Kundera)
by Elco B (elcob at scarlet dot be) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:17:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A few papers picked up on this development at the major Scottish insurer etc - Standard Life

SL Capital Partners LLP

But of course only a monomaniac like me sees this example of a "Capital Partnership" as further evidence that the "Open Corporate" UK LLP is in the process of making the Limited Liability Company redundant.

 Explaining the rationale behind the restructure, SLI said as private equity investors make capital commitments for long periods of time - at around 14 years - they want some guarantee on who will manage their money over the period. By giving investment managers a stake in the business, they are more likely to stay, it added.

Odd, isn't it, that people are more likely to stay if they participate in a business?

It is hoped the new structure will encourage investment managers to write more business, as they will take a 40 per cent share in the profits, as well as help retain existing clients.

SLI will, of course, benefit from LLP being successful as it is the majority owner.

Doesn't take the brains of a rocking-horse, really, does it?

IMHO any business that does not use this structure will be at a disadvantage to one that does.

Watch this space.

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:11:02 PM EST

What are all those dots? People who are receiving farm subsidy payments under the Farm Bill.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:12:26 PM EST
Last time I was in Central Park, I didn't see any combine harvesters....funny, that.

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson
by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:16:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
They've replanted.  Everybody's growing corn everywhere now.  Ethanol, you know.
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:17:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
well there's none in the park, perhaps they've been reading Magnifico's roof garden diary. ;-)

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:22:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Farm subsidies to already stinking rich people in their overpriced top floor with roofgarden apartments?
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:19:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's a nice uplifting site.  So is where the caucus of the banned malcontents is held nowadays?  

Actually, I like the subversive tone.  Just miffed it's not work-friendly. ... must. get. effing. computer...

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:21:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Markos really sucks" gets old real quick...

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (m<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:24:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Those aren't dots, they're Heritage Tomato ranches.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:30:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
or...<gasp>...an attack of killer tomatoes...

(ay yi yi...)

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia

by whataboutbob on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:08:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I can't understand why we Europeans are so afraid of GM food...

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (m<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:08:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'll tell you why:

most people think that GM food  is as harmless as cross-breeding plants to get the desired characteristic.  This is not the case.  By inserting a gene sequence into an organism, you have absolutely no idea what will happen because gene sequences overlap, and genetics has just discovered that it takes two or more gene sequences to have a characteristic expressed, not just the one as we had always thought.

There's been a case where scientists wanted to introduce a gene sequence for vitamin A in a plant, but once the plant was mature, they realized that an unknown, poisonous compound was also being produced.

The testing of these GM products isn't extensive enough to rule things of this sort out because the mechanism is not yet fully understood.  

Also, with cross-pollination occurring in the wild, this can happen by accident.  

by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:12:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was making a joke, but point taken...

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (m<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:16:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Market insight: There can be no return to `normality'

... disparate viewpoints are unsurprising in a financial system where risk has been diced and sliced to the nth degree in overstructured products.

The whole essence of complex investment vehicles such as collateralised debt and loan obligations is that they drive a giant wedge between portfolio perception and economic reality.

(...)

Credit conditions have, after all, tightened across the board. Parts of the credit markets remain closed.

(...)

The whole of the US housing market is a gigantic Achilles' heel for the financial system as recent numbers for housing starts confirm.

How this will affect players in the global financial system is impossible to predict because a peculiar feature of this 21st century financial crisis is its opacity. Nobody knows where risk has ended up, which is why confidence and liquidity drained away in the first place. (...)

US home lending has been a huge driver of global demand. It is now going into reverse, with analysts such as Bill Gross of the Pimco fund management group expecting house price deflation in the US of up to 10 per cent in the absence of governmental intervention to prop up the market. On present policy, it is hard to see how the change in mortgage market conditions can fail to precipitate an economic slowdown.

(...)

The large chunk of corporate profits attributable to finance in the US and UK is also a bear pointer. While central banks have so far succeeded in keeping the financial show on the road, the problems of the housing market and the flakiness of the accountancy for complex financial instruments means that there is a drip feed of bad news yet to come.



In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:18:47 PM EST

Big Questions for Big Oil

In such circumstances [higher oil prices], one would expect such commentators to be bullish about the prospect for independent oil companies (IOCs) such as Exxon Mobil, Royal Dutch Shell and BP. Rising oil prices have pushed these companies' profits sky-high over the past five years. Yet a growing number of industry voices suggest that the era of the vertically integrated supermajor may be over, and that IOCs have been unable to adapt to the new global business environment.

Second-quarter results in late July saw Shell, BP, ConocoPhilips and Exxon Mobil all report declining output. Jeroen van der Veer, the chief executive of Shell -- the only firm to post an overall rise in net income on the back of record refining revenues -- said the company was "rejuvenating" itself through production from unconventional projects such as Canadian tar sands and LNG projects in Qatar. Such marginal activities are now having an effect on the balance sheet as returns from traditional operations -- namely, sub-surface crude oil and gas production -- begin to disappoint.

IOCs are facing both structural and cyclical challenges. Depressed oil prices throughout the mid- to late 1990s caused a period of low investment in new exploration by IOCs and nationalized oil companies (NOCs) alike, which has left many firms reliant on a relatively smaller number of "superfields" that are beginning to dry up. As the oil price has steadily risen, several governments -- most notably in Russia and Venezuela -- have responded by expropriating foreign-owned oil and gas fields for their own state-run firms, usually under the guise of environmental transgressions or tax irregularities.

(...)

Total, which was competing against Statoil and Chevron for the [Shtokman] contract, had little choice but to accept these punitive terms since IOCs' business models are predicated on developing access to new reserves. Yet paying for the privilege diverts cash away from R&D, an area in which IOCs need to invest heavily if they are to compete with oil services providers. Throughout the postwar period, IOCs have pioneered advances in exploratory and extractive technologies. But their recent underinvestment within a highly cyclical industry means the services providers, funded by huge contracts from newly cash-flush NOCs, are now set to lead the research field. Recent figures suggest that while Exxon Mobil plans to spend $650 million on R&D in 2007, Schlumberger will spend $720 million, further squeezing IOCs' future technological advantage.

So what is the future for IOCs? A further round of mergers is unlikely because of stringent Western competition rules, as BP and Shell once concluded. Ironically, the paradox of the high oil price is that all the major IOCs are beginning to divest their noncore assets, such as refineries and consumer-distribution infrastructure, even as their profits in oil and gas production should be rising.

With NOCs undertaking ever-more challenging exploration -- Pemex, the Mexican state oil company, recently leased three semisubmersible drilling rigs which can operate in 5,000 feet of water -- competition between oil services providers and IOCs to provide technical support will intensify. Such competition is likely to radically reshape the oil industry over the next two decades. Total's deal over Shtokman may represent the beginning of the end of the supermajor.



In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:25:12 PM EST
Total's deal over Shtokman may represent the beginning of the end of the supermajor

Or perhaps the End of the Beginning for the supermajor as service provider....

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:36:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
IOC, NOC? These finance types are on total overdrive with their acronym-creationism.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:38:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
IOKIYAOC

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (m<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:40:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
GYAOOTC and GYBOOYA?

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 04:54:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
to post all that in the OT, but I´d be on drugs, if I had to get through those articles everyday!

independent oil companies
newly cash-flush NOCs,
because of stringent Western competition rules,
...

--´Independent´ has such a nice ring to it.  Like the little mom and pop operation.  

--Those bad, bad, nouveau riche countries...

--I´d hate to see the world if competition rules were loosy-goosey...

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 04:37:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
  • An offer from Amazon.co.uk
  • An offer from Amazon.com
  • An offer from Amazon.de
  • An offer from Amazon.fr

Moral: don't ever order anything from Amazon, lest your mailbox be bombarded...

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (m<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:30:29 PM EST
You have to make sure to "opt out"...I mean, if they let you have that choice...

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia
by whataboutbob on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:40:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have problems ordering things from Amazon.fr when not living in France
by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:41:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I suppose living outside of the EU complicates things?

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (m<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:44:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I forget exactly what it was, but it seemed like amazon.fr couldn't actually believe that someone outside of France was ordering something from them
by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:57:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Peculiar. It works smoothly whenever I order. Though postage rates to Finland is absolutely murder...

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (m<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:07:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
so Finland is the forgotten corner of Europe, like Maine is the forgotten corner of the USA, Labrador of Canada, and Baja California of Mexico.  

It's always the northernmost part.  

by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:52:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As long as I don't have to eat lobster, I'm fine with being the Maine of Europe...

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (m<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:57:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, please, please!  May I have yours?

Now I can´t get ´fresh, steamed, Maine lobster´ out of my mind.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 04:44:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
By all means, have mine! I ain't eating 'em!

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (m<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 04:58:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
7 years now and zero euro from me to amazon. Some old emails for the reason:


From:     Laurent Guerby
To:     feedback@amazon.com
Subject:     Amazon and Software Patents
Date:     Sat, 12 Feb 2000 17:44:41 +0100

Hi,

Up to a few monthes a go I enjoyed being an Amazon customer, I ordered
quite a few book on both amazon.com and amazon.co.uk.  The quality of
service has always been excellent, the web site easy to use, kudos to
all of hard working Amazon staff people.

But I learned that Amazon has sued competitors over a software
patent (US patent 5,960,411).

I cannot agree with such a tactic. Patenting obvious ideas, and
patenting software in general is very bad, and it doesn't do any good
to you business. Letting your company being run by your lawyers
will do no good to your business.

I therefore will stop being an Amazon customer. I will buy my books
from other companies. and I already made my friends aware of the
issue, and it looks like they will also buy their book elsewhere.

I hope that you will see sooner than later what is good for
your business, stop these silly legal assaults and apologize.
I'll then be happy to be an Amazon customer again.

Sincerely,

Laurent Guerby
Paris, FRANCE.

Answer:


From:     feedback@amazon.com
Subject:     Your Feedback to Amazon.com
Date:     Sun, 13 Feb 2000 19:27:39 -0800 (PST) (Mon, 04:27 CET)

Dear Laurent,

Thank you for taking the time to share your views with us.  Not
surprisingly, we have received a variety of reactions from customers
about the preliminary injunction awarded to Amazon.com in its patent
infringement lawsuit against barnesandnoble.com.

Because the case is still pending, we are unable to discuss the
specifics of this litigation.  As a general matter, however, we agree
with United States District Judge Marsha J. Pechman's ruling that
"granting Amazon.com's preliminary injunction will serve the public
interest" in part because "protection of intellectual property rights
in innovations will foster greater competition and innovation."  To
that end, Amazon.com will certainly continue innovating on behalf of
its customers.

Judging from some customers' e-mails, there appears to be significant
confusion about the scope and nature of Amazon.com's patent.  For more
comprehensive information about the patent and the circumstances of the
lawsuit, the full text of the federal court decisions in the case may be
viewed at:  http://www.mccutchen.com/are/ip/ip_001.htm

We appreciate feedback from customers about this lawsuit and other
important issues concerning Amazon.com, and we carefully consider all
viewpoints expressed.  We hope you will continue to let us know how we
can improve our service to customers.

Best regards,

Kerry Rutherford
Amazon.com

by Laurent GUERBY on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:11:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ireland.com - The Irish Times - Thu, Aug 30, 2007 - Ireland warming twice as fast as rest of world, report finds

Ireland is warming up at twice the rate of the rest of the world on average, according to a new climate change report compiled by the Environmental Protection Agency. Tim O'Brien reports.

The report which analysed meteorological records going back more than 100 years concluded that Ireland warmed up by 0.42 degrees per decade between 1980 and 2004, about twice the levels of increase globally.

Entitled Key Meteorological Indicators of Climate Change in Ireland, the report also warned that the rate of warming in Ireland was still accelerating.

     
2007 - Environmental Protection Agency, Ireland
Date released: Aug 29 2007
· Ireland's mean annual temperature has increased by 0.7oC between 1890 and 2004.
· The average rate of increase is 0.06oC per decade. However, as Ireland experiences considerable climate variability, the trend is not linear.
· The highest ten yearly rate of increase has occurred since 1980, with a warming rate of 0.42oC per decade.
· Six of the 10 warmest years have occurred since 1990; however, 1945 was the warmest year on record.
· There has been a reduction in the number of frost days and a shortening of the frost season length.
· The annual precipitation has increased on the north and west coasts, with decreases or small increases in the south and east.
· The wetter conditions on the west and north coastal regions appear due to increases in rainfall intensity and persistence.
· There is an increase in precipitation events over 10mm on the west coast with decreases on the east coast; there is an increase in the amount of rain per rain day on the west coast.
 


The struggle of man against tyranny is the struggle of memory against forgetting.(Kundera)
by Elco B (elcob at scarlet dot be) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 01:49:58 PM EST
Huh. well ET is now...for all intents and purposes...Irish, so we are truly in the middle of things now.

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia
by whataboutbob on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:13:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
All astrology aside...I mean really, do any of you out there have places you go that just feel make you feel better?

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia
by whataboutbob on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:14:55 PM EST

A bit far away :)

by Laurent GUERBY on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:20:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
try the view here

www.katkam.ca

I used to live there and the view really helped me.  

by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:21:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes! Railway stations, observatories...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:21:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Walking around my neighborhood just makes me feel better.  It is ... well, was, kinda still is "European", and still has a large central/eastern European immigrant population.  The little cafe lined plaza, the European apothecary, the pedestrian street, it's all very charming.  The street lamps are even a gift from the city of Hamburg or something.  I discovered it when I returned from Paris and was really depressed to be back in America.  It's not Paris.  But it's about as good as is gets around here.

There is also a wonderful beach/harbor/migratory bird sanctuary at the end of my street.  

But when I need to seriously take a break to reflect, I like to go to Bailey's Harbor, Wisconsin:

Beach:

Nature reserve:



"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:48:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I enjoy walking by the river that runs to the city. Though I've renamed the river "Paskajoki". The natives were not amused...

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (m<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:51:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm certain that there are lots of rivers named that. :-) The fancy part of Helsinki where I used to live (a nice spot in Kruununhaka) is "Paskalampi" in very old maps.

You have a normal feeling for a moment, then it passes. --More--
by tzt (tzt) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:05:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Mountains make me feel better.



You have a normal feeling for a moment, then it passes. --More--

by tzt (tzt) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:07:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Gaze out of mt back window, or step into my garden for (and I may have posted this before)


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:50:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ooooh, that's lovely. How about the ET meetup being in your back garden with a barbecue ?

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 04:19:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well apart from the transport problems in getting here, andare really only accessible by train from the south.(we are 30 miles from the nearest Railway station) and the unreliable weather.

I will sort something like that for the sunny months next year.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 04:56:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Aah.

<wistful>

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 04:39:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That is absolutely glorious, ceebs!

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 05:21:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If you go out of the other side of my house and up to the top of the hill, then you're standing right in the middle albeit in the far distance, of one of In wales Brecon beacon photos from a lot earlier in the year (maybe even last year)

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 05:27:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not quite my back garden...

...but near enough.

Of course I don't necessarily believe in power spots. But if I did, my living room and studio would possibly count as 'interesting.'

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 05:30:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Me and Nostradamus were lying in the sun, listening to the waves slap up against the seals.  He looked remarkably fit for an old guy, considering the vigors of time travel, but i was no slouch either, as i considered the march of the centuries i'd seen.  Nosti bummed a smoke, as he tried to enlighten me on why the land of that Avatar Paddy was warming so quickly.

"Digging up the prime peat to sell to the Scots, so they can sell their whiskey at ever higher prices to the Japanese industrymen," he sloughed.  "And now all the smokers have to go outside to light up... why are scientists so mufferfookin' blind!"

i didn't know how to respond, but Nosti was on the case.  "Don't answer that," he predicted.  So i didn't, and it came true.

We sat quietly for a moment, interrupted only by the seals begging smokes, as we both sat spellbound watching the future volcano that was Pt. Reyes erupt with a fury only future generations would understand.  I drifted off, sadly watching the demise of the Bay Area i'd grown to love... too painful to watch as the lava damned the Golden Gate.

The sting of his palm across my face brought me back to the beach.  "Wake up, you Mars square in the seventh house Aschloch!"  so i did, once again a testament to his predilective perspicacity.

To this day i remain stunned as Nosti spun a detailed description of the Ley Lines running beneath the very center of the European Tribune, and how they too would erupt, coalescing power around the very spot from which the Peak Oil drop would be drilled.

Nostradamus sprang up, shaking the sand from his monstrous appendage as the seals quaked in fear and the hippy virgins began streaming down to the beach from Bolinas.  "The days of ET are numbered,"  he chirped, "for the very statistics have turned against them."

The heavens thundered as he pointed his member at their membership, and i was rocked across the cliffs by the mighty, angry Winds at about 29 meters per second, well beyond cut-out speed, falling panting before the base as the fiery seas clutched at my legs.

The fire dissolved into a soft, luscious licking around the corners of my mouth.  "Did you have another of those mysoginist Limantour Beach dreams, my love?"

I surrendered into the arms of my 26 year old lover, as she whispered, "Tell me again the part about the appendage and the volcano."

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 02:39:35 PM EST
Wow! i don't need Castenada anymore.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:16:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nostradamus attempted to butt into our conversation the other day, only it wasn't him, just an imposter.  He came across pleading for deliverance and a toke on the joint.  We passed it across then skedaddled.  He'd been talking philosophy with two contessas and a principessa, lived in a house with no running water inside.

"So, you have water outside?" I said.

Seems he never got the hang of that "buy tube, drill hole, voila!  Water in house" business.

But, hey, that wasn't Nostradamus!

Indeed.  Nostradamus told me to offer you this.



Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 04:22:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I prefer Chopin's 1st piano concerto, second movement
by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 04:34:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by zoe on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 04:36:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

(You'll have to turn it up a bit)

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 05:34:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
...which finishes abruptly (after eight minutes)...but rather than offer you parts two, three, and four, here's something that finishes.

and what the hecka hello!

And talking of pre-renaissance art (as I have been), and for those who cannae pick up videos, here are three that I remember from the National Gallery

Benozzo Gozzoli

The image is small, I know, but those haloes glow gold, and maybe it's just me but I get a strong indian-gods sense from the form, the colours.

Cosimo Tura

The lady with the dragons, the queen of berries, or--as Cosimo Tura titled it--"Primavera", or "Spring", or "An Allegorical Figure"

and finally:

Alesso Baldovinetti

The original looks fresher, fine lines, the motif on the sleeve...ach...the originals are worth a look, sez I!

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 05:20:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]


Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 04:56:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oui. Je me rapelle bien, d'avoir vu Piaf a l'Olympia en '62.



Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 03:40:28 PM EST
How Political Psychology Explains Bush's Ghastly Success

Provides some experimental evidence that Bush won in '04 because of 9-11.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 04:22:29 PM EST
It's like they do things over there just so I have material for Odds & Ends!

Такого, как Путин!

MOSCOW (AFP) -- Stuffed rabbits singing a pop song proclaiming their love for Russian President Vladimir Putin are selling like hot cakes in the Urals city of Yekaterinburg.

Lyrics:
http://russmus.net/song.jsp?band=Poyushchie_Vmeste&album=0&song=0

Video:
http://www.siberianlight.net/2007/08/29/i-want-a-man-like-dobby-err-like-putin/


"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 05:01:11 PM EST
Well, that settles the souvenir issue...

(though Ekaterinburg is a bit out of my way)

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde

by NordicStorm (m<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 05:10:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Tetons coming south from Yellowstone

Never been there that I didn't feel peaceful.

"I said, 'Wait a minute, Chester, You know I'm a peaceful man...'" Robbie Robertson

by NearlyNormal on Thu Aug 30th, 2007 at 09:39:05 PM EST


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