Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.

Can saltwater be burned as fuel?

by fredouil Wed Sep 12th, 2007 at 12:39:19 AM EST

n 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, Nemo describes how the Nautilus is powered by sea water...

"Professor," said Captain Nemo, "my electricity is not everybody's.
You know what sea-water is composed of. In a thousand grammes are found 96 1/2 per cent. of water, and about 2 2/3 per cent. of chloride of sodium; then, in a smaller quantity, chlorides of magnesium and of potassium, bromide of magnesium, sulphate of magnesia,
sulphate and carbonate of lime. You see, then, that chloride of sodium forms a large part of it. So it is this sodium that I extract from the sea-water, and of which I compose my ingredients.
I owe all to the ocean; it produces electricity, and electricity gives heat, light, motion, and, in a word, life to the Nautilus."

A guy has just discovered by accident how to burn salt water (strangely the flame seems to be yellow (sodium?) in the video, not blue like hydrogen does) by simply applying some RF to it.

A dream that comes true : Getting energy from sea water


From Engadget : A gentleman from Erie named John Kanzius made a somewhat "shocking" discovery while he was working on a radio-wave generator he had developed for the treatment of cancer. While attempting to desalinate sea water using radio frequencies, he noticed flashes, and within a few days, had saltwater burning in a test-tube as if it were a candle. The discovery spawned interest from the scientific community, mostly concerned with whether or not the water could be used as a fuel, and of course, healthy doses of disbelief. Last week, a Penn State University chemist named Rustum Roy held a demonstration proving that the science is sound, noting that the water doesn't burn, though the radio frequencies weaken the bonds holding together the salt, releasing hydrogen which is ignited when exposed to the RF field. Mr. Kanzius and Dr. Roy say the question now is the efficiency of the energy, and are presenting the technology to the US Department of Defense and Department of Energy to investigate how useful the technology will be. Of the plentiful maybe-fuel (which apparently burns so hot it can melt test-tubes) Dr. Roy says, "This is the most abundant element in the world. It is everywhere," and (without recognition of the poetic irony, as far as we can tell), "Seeing it burn gives me chills." Check the TV report after the break to see the water in action.

Of course, the reaction requires more energy than it releases ;-) but still interesting.

Display:
That is an interesting catch!
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Wed Sep 12th, 2007 at 02:40:06 AM EST
For fuck's sake ... like nobody's put water in a microwave before? Why is this quackery getting any attention at all? It's been frontpaged on digg already.

The 2nd principle of thermodynamics is not optional. Stop being stupid, people: if it's too good to be true, it probably is.

A 'centrist' is someone who's neither on the left, nor on the left.

by nicta (nico@altiva․fr) on Wed Sep 12th, 2007 at 05:59:02 AM EST
It's a laugh, we aren't taking it seriously!
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Wed Sep 12th, 2007 at 06:08:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
At least it's a slightly different scam to the normal one employed by conmen, where acetone is used as a "secret" additive to water. having done that then you can supposedly, if you get the proportions right, drive the car for about two tanks full before the acetone breaks down the engines oil and it siezes up.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Sep 12th, 2007 at 06:11:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sure. Water burns in fluorine, so with fuel = water and oxidiser = fluorine, [salt]water can be burned "as fuel".

Words and ideas I offer here may be used freely and without attribution.
by technopolitical on Wed Sep 12th, 2007 at 11:34:17 PM EST


The Fates are kind.
by Gaianne on Thu Sep 13th, 2007 at 11:38:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It can't be burned with oxygen, so he can't be doing it.

Words and ideas I offer here may be used freely and without attribution.
by technopolitical on Mon Sep 17th, 2007 at 07:38:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Somebody above mentioned acetone.  How much acetone would you need?--I mean nail-polish remover is just acetone and water, and works fine, but the smell is unmistakable and would require the news-team to be in on the scam.  

Could you cut it to the point the smell would not be obvious?  

Or is it a different technique altogether?  

Consider the radio beam:  If it was tuned to either salt or water, he could not stick his hand in it.  So perhaps he has tuned it to something ELSE in the saltwater that does not occur in the human body.  Or has ADDED a substance to the saltwater.  This picks up the energy of the beam and then does . . . something--which drives off a flammable vapor.  The puzzle is, what and how?  

The goofy smiles of the "university scientists" combined with their total, amazed bafflement (they should not be amazed, whether or not they are baffled) convinces me they are part of the scam.  

The Fates are kind.

by Gaianne on Tue Sep 18th, 2007 at 06:04:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I seem to remember that it's about a 5 water to 1 acetone mix, but it comes from 25 years ago. if you knew the scam there's no way you could have it snuk past you.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2007 at 06:11:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Last week, a Penn State University chemist named Rustum Roy held a demonstration proving that the science is sound, noting that the water doesn't burn, though the radio frequencies weaken the bonds holding together the salt, releasing hydrogen which is ignited when exposed to the RF field.
This is patent nonsense. Sodium Chlorine fully dissociates in water, so there are no "bonds holding together the salt" left in salt water.

Oye, vatos, dees English sink todos mi ships, chinga sus madres, so escuche: el fleet es ahora refloated, OK? — The War Nerd
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2007 at 03:54:07 PM EST


Display:
Go to: [ European Tribune Homepage : Top of page : Top of comments ]

Top Diaries

Impeachment gets real

by ARGeezer - Jan 17
9 comments

A Final Warning

by Oui - Jan 10
96 comments

Environment Anarchists

by Oui - Jan 13
4 comments

More Spanish repression

by IdiotSavant - Jan 6
8 comments