However, as Migeru's playful reference to the Myers-Briggs typology revealed - for what it is worth - there's a bunch of touchie-feelies and also another bunch of academic precisionists here - wrestlers and boxers, I call them. And a lot of others who fall in neither camp or oscillate (mediate?) between the two. This is inevitable in any large 'unselected' group ie with membership not imposed top down. It is also a mix that we shall all have to learn to live with, because our joint creativity - the yin-yang of it (as rg will help us with) - depends on the spontaneity and risk-taking, as much as the careful reasoning.

You mention about not bullying people into accepting your point of view. I agree. It is not enough to be right - you have to persuade others that you are right. The most lasting changes in people are the ones they 'discover' for themselves. Of course they don't really discover these needs for change, they are an accumulation of absorbed information, attitudes and opinions that increasingly mismatch with what the individual thinks makes them happy.

And all change is stressful, whether its a wedding or a funeral. And since ET is about change - it is stressful. We are seeing the results of that stress, because ET is changing us. I have certainly changed.

You can't be me, I'm taken

I have nothing against Jacob, some of his stuff is interesting, but I think spamming is not a solution to express ones own opinion. So, in the end, was me who was responsible for blocking Jacobs account. If you disagree with my reaction, you all should adress your disagreement to me and not to all FP's.

Generally anti-authoritarian. Our irreligiousness come from a rejection of religious command and imposition, our difficulties are over whether spirituality is new-age gobbledegook to be derided or a genuine and worthwhile pursuit (the positions seem irreconcilable).

But also this is a shared space and we expect civility; in the same way as if you were face to face.  Even, no especially, when we disagree. Yet some forget this or seem unknowing of simple politesse. Rudeness is disrespectful of the commons we inhabit. Yes we get angry occasionally and sometimes have to appolgise for it. I indulge sarcasm quite often, but being rude is something I hope I have never done. I hate it when I see it because it diminishes us all. Posting stupid graphics everywhere is juvenile and rude.

I rarely rate comments cos it takes too long, but equally I would only give 4s for comments I believe are worth applauding as being exceptional. I give no ther ranking, I can't see the point.

This is a place for frank exchanges of views, honest discussion and intelligent conversation. For the two years I've been here it has lived up to this, I regard this last week as an aberration.

keep to the Fen Causeway

It seems there is no trolling (another frequent aspect of web forums), and most posters are sincere, and don't particularly incite angry exchange.

Maintaining this state does require some policing... Do you know what has become of kuro5hin, the first scoop site, long overran by trolling ?

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

A lesson is that there are different faultlines running across the community in opinion, with who is in a majority and who not depending on the issue.

The good news is that ET as a community came back after each of the previous big fights, despite then also hurt feelings and perceived and real insults, and continued disagreements.

The bad news is that presently, a not sizeable part of the regular readership (who have the sympathy of even wider parts of the readership) have developed what I will pointedly and with honest conviction characterise as a groupthink, about frontpagers acting in unison, with the same (and one-sided) opinion and oppressively. Then it becomes impossible to say or do anything without being put into this frame (see the Jacob Freeze story), and assumption of ill will will take precedent over the ET norm of pondering whether you've mis-understood the other. This is not about values but group dynamics. I hope we will come back from the brink again (and there were a number of signs towards the end of the blow-up diaries -- it was the Boxing Day punch up material thread by Chris Cook and Hostility to the notion of limits to growth by Jerome a Paris; have you read them?), but clique formation is still a danger.

_{*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

However disagreeing with his views (on say Islam) is not a reason for freezing his account - although I am also conscious that there are laws against inciting religious hatred.

That he has created and been allowed to keep another account is a testament to the fact that this place is more tolerant than it needs to be. I even replied to a complaint by FPS Doug whether he wanted his Jacob Freeze account reinstated instead, and got no reply.

Not to speak of the fact that before Jacob Freeze went batshit insane (see first paragraph above) I engaged his diaries in good faith as best I could - not that half the time I found his writing very coherent, but never mind, and even promoted some of his stuff to the front-page.

So 1) give me a break; 2) get the facts right before judging.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

In any group of people there are going to be those who are psychologically impaired in some fashion. They may be excessively dogmatic or sociopaths or bullies or have some other anti-social characteristic.

"Liberals" tend to put up with such people for a longer period of time that "conservatives". A couple of comments that go against the prevailing dogma on a conservative authoritarian site will get you banned (I speak from experience). This is part of the nature of the conservative-authoritarian personality type that tends to run such sites.

I'm a big believer in freedom of speech, but I also think there is a need for a degree of enforcement of socially acceptable behavior. I'm willing to cede this function to the site's administrators. I have trusted user status, which I don't think I've ever used. I'm just not interested in enforcing decorum, but I see the place for it.

If a person joins who abuses their privileges then take the appropriate action, but don't lets turn this into a cause celebre, that's just a distraction. I've noticed a trend of late for more personal diaries and general meta discussions (such as how one chose their screen name). A bit of this is probably good for fostering a sense of community, but there are enough other places for those who want to discuss interpersonal relationships to hang out.

This site was established so that serious policy issues could be discussed with a wider audience than the US-based sites provide. The problems facing the planet aren't getting any easier, so if you find yourself talking about people on the site (including yourself) frequently, perhaps this isn't the right place for you.  

Policies not Politics
---- Daily Landscape

Beyond that, it is true that most members value respect, civility, intellectual rigour and the free exchange of ideas.  Not all but most.  And those who do not sometimes find another place to go, but sometimes they stick around and eventually come to embrace those values themselves.  Not because anyone tells them to, not because it's a requirement, not because it's "who we are," but because they see it in action, often successfully, and appreciate the kind of atmosphere it engenders.

Once you start compiling a list of "our values," we start defining ourselves against others, closing them out.  I think it's more constructive to leave the door open and address/debate/agree to disagree on certain "values" as the issue of them arises.  Not only does it create a interesting discussion, but it also forces you to come back and repeatedly reassess or defend your "values."  And doing that can be a great learning experience.

Not to mention that I may not share a certain value with one person (perhaps on the issue of spirituality) but may enjoy great solidarity with them regarding something else (human rights issues.)  

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.