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Who will tell Wall Street to shove it?

by NBBooks Mon Jan 7th, 2008 at 06:37:29 PM EST

Cross posted to DailyKos at http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/7/181746/3223/827/432425

Downstairs I outline my assessment of how Clinton, Obama, and Edwards, are likely to act in the coming economic crises. I also discuss their economic advisers. So, this diary is strictly focused on ECONOMICS, and I would like the comments to not stray from that sole topic.

First, here is my working premise: The sub-prime mortgage crisis pushed the world's financial system passed the tipping point in August and the world's financial system is now collapsing. Unfortunately, these financial collapses do not happen in a nice, big explosive fireball like in Die Hard 12 or whatever, so 90 percent or so of the population has not really noticed yet that this IS the End Times, so far as the age of "neo-liberal economics" (please do NOT confuse this with political liberalism - take the time to read the link to Wikipedia).


The financial collapse is already making its effects felt in the real economy  (also see link two paragraphs down), but much worse economic hardship is coming. I do not believe there's any stopping it at this point. I might be wrong; Ben Bernanke might have some magic solution he can pull out of his butt, but I really doubt it this time.

None of the candidates - Republican or Democrat - are talking about these financial crises, and the economic onslaught they portend. Hillary brought up the "possibility" of recession in the debate on Saturday evening, but this beast is going to be much worse than a mere recession. Obviously, Bernanke, Bush's Treasury, and the boys on Wall Street are desperately trying to prevent the beast from slouching into public view before the election this year. They might be able to, but I rather doubt it. The most recent economic data on holiday retail sales, and on credit card delinquencies, indicate a dramatic collapse in what economists call aggregate demand generation - which is what caused the Great Depression in the late 1920s.

The obvious conclusion is that the next president of the United States is going to be dealing with an economic collapse. The extreme level of economic hardship that will likely result is going to make the population more open to radical solutions - Naomi Klein's shock doctrine - but whether the population will opt for progressive solutions or go the way of Germany in the 1920s and 1930s is, I fear, entirely open to question. It will be a terrifyingly interesting dynamic between the next President and the howls of pain from the mob outside that will determine which way the next president goes in dealing with the economic collapse.

My own view is that this is going to be a fight to the death. Either we demolish the power of Wall Street and dismantle the structure of speculative finance and return to industrial capitalism and a Keynesian goal of full employment and wage growth, or the United States will cease to exist as a free, democratic republic in the next ten to twenty years. I honestly believe the stakes are that high.

One final word before I turn to the candidates. There is NO solution to these financial and economic crises within the presently accepted economic belief structure of U.S. elites. I'm not talking about them being capitalists and what we need being socialism (how anyone can still pine for socialism, after the miserable record of state socialism since the Bolshevik Revolution made Russia the first test lab, is beyond my understanding). You must really understand the difference between Keynesian full employment capitalism, which may be thought of as industrial capitalism, and what professional economists unfortunately (and misleadingly) call "neo-liberal economics", which has given rise to the present system of financial capitalism we hate and deplore. Economist James Crotty has a paper in the 2005 book, Financialization and the World Economy, entitled "The Neoliberal Paradox: The Impact of Destructive Product Market Competition and Impatient Finance on Nonfinancial Corporations in the Neoliberal Era." Crotty explains that the pressures of neo-liberal economics have created a new class of idiots savant -- the professional manager -- who believe that managing a company that produces semi-conductor lithographing equipment is not that much different than managing a chain of brothels in Nevada. The typical American manager with MBA in hand no longer views industrial companies as long-term enterprises in which they must carefully nurture a strong commitment to long-run goals by top management, lower level management, specialized professionals, white- and blue-collar workers, and the firm's traditional suppliers. Rather the professional manager views industrial companies as units or collections of sub-units that are liquid assets which can be sold off to capital markets if they "underperform." That pretty much demolishes any idea of long-term commitments or long-term loyalties.  

Hillary Clinton. She may have been the only one to bring up the "possibility" of recession in the debate on Saturday, but the problem with Hillary is crystal clear: she has surrounded herself with stalwarts of "neo-liberal" radical free market economics, including Robert Rubin and Gene Sperling. Remember, former Goldman Sachs chairman Rubin had the Democratic version of "neo-liberal" radical free market economics named after him when he was Bill's Treasury Secretary: Rubinomics. As Tom Palley wrote in The Nation in May 2007:

Before Democrats can begin to reverse a generation of laissez-faire policy dominance that has put corporations and CEOs ahead of working families, they must debunk Rubinomics, which makes the budget deficit the central focus of economic policy.

 If Hillary did end up bucking the wishes of Wall Street, it will be a very slow and painful process as she and her economic advisers blindly stumble their way out of the thicket of neo-liberal radical free market economics in which they have spent their entire lives. I rate the chances of Hillary standing up to Wall Street at around 50 / 50.

Dennis Kucinich. You have to admire the guy's spunk. But Kucinich would be a repeat of 1860 in the sense that the big money boys would be leaving the United States before he was even sworn in. The big question is: Would he have what it takes to handle the massive international financial instability and economic warfare that would be punitively unleashed? I don't really know, but his New Age beliefs leave me doubting there is a stern enough core to get the job done. I just don't seen Kucinich ordering a brigade of the 82nd Airborne onto the Cayman Islands to give prosecutors free access to all those secret bank accounts, which is what might be required if Wall Street gets really vicious in its opposition. I think it is 100 percent certain that Kucinich would tell Wall Street to take a long walk off a short pier, but I think it's only 50 / 50 that he would actually be mean, tough, and violent enough to actually dismantle the regime of speculative finance.

Barack Obama. There is no longer any doubt the man can inspire. Obama is an orator, in the best traditions of American politics before television ruined it all. Watching the Iowa victory speech, the sheer enthusiasm and passion of everyone in the room was infectious. Shades of JFK and Camelot. It was such a brilliant performance that even Charles Krauthammer on Washington Week in Review admitted Obama was impressive.

But what would Obama do in a confrontation with Wall Street? Obama was a street organizer in some of the worst neighborhoods of Chicago, and his father was from Kenya, so I think Obama has huge empathy for the downtrodden and economically disadvantaged. And, I think Obama was only slightly corrupted by his years in the Ivy League, but this is more wishful thinking than anything else: I really do not know. Unfortunately, I don't think Obama and the people around him have a clear idea about what's happening in the economy and the financial markets -- they are paying much more attention to the campaign. I think when push comes to shove there is an excellent chance Obama would tell Wall Street to go screw themselves. But the situation would have to be very dire for Obama and his people to recognize they have to finish off Wall Street once and for all. The good thing about Obama is that he can inspire people, and if this economic beast is going to be as big and bad as I fear, the only thing a lot of people are going to have left is the inspiration Obama can give them.

The big problem with Obama is the same problem Hillary has: his economic advisors are Democratic versions of "neo-liberal" radical free marketeers, so it is going to be the major intellectual breakthrough of their lives to have to admit that most of what they know and believe about economics is wrong. Obama's most notable economic advisor is Austan Goolsbee, from the University of Chicago - which by itself should be setting off alarm bells since that is the bastion of Milton Friedman's radical free market economics. In fact, Goolsbee wrote a little homage to Friedman in the New York Times when the latter finally relieved the world of his mortal presence in November 2006.

More recently, Goolsbee told George Will that the threat of free trade and globalization is overblown, because 60 to 70 percent of the economy -- auto mechanics, dentists, doctors, lawyers - do not have to contend with international competition. So, obviously, Goolsbee is overlooking the massive downward pressure on American's aggregate demand generation (buying power), which is rather surprising, because he has made something of a specialty in studying the distribution of income, especially at the very top. Just take a look through the list of reports and studies he has made available online. Even more surprising, given his research, Goolsbee believes that most of the income inequality results from "radically increased returns to skill" which is the standard movement conservatism excuse for widening income inequality. This completely ignores the unbelievable distribution you find when you focus on just the top ten percent of income earners, which is almost as badly skewed as the national picture - most of the gains have gone to the top one tenth of one percent.

In one of his papers, "What Happens When You Tax the Rich? Evidence from Executive Compensation,"in Journal of Political Economy, April 2000, Goolsbee is worried about "the amount of deadweight loss created by a progressive tax code." He even explicitly points out that a "few thousand executives may account for as much as 21%" of the change in wage and salary income of almost the top one million taxpayers from 1992 to 1993. To his credit, Goolsbee adds that while tax receipts declined dramatically from this group after an increase in tax rates, this was because stock options were exercised, and tax receipts soon recovered in following years. So, the evidence that an extremely small number of extremely rich people have been -- let's be honest and call it what it is -- looting the United States, is slapping him in the face, but Goolsbee is sticking with the "neo-liberal" radical free market economic theory that higher skills are simply getting paid much more. That misses the whole point of "lifting all boats." If it turns out, as all the evidence now shows, that your pet economic theories are not lifting all boats, well, shouldn't you begin suspecting that there's something wrong with the theories? Unless, of course, you really don't mind -- or are told not to mind, and you obey -- the filthy rich getting ever filthier and ever richer.

So, unless Goolsbee is pulling off some kind of undercover stunt, inflitrating the economics establishment as a mole, there really is no excuse for turning to a guy like Goolsbee for economic advice. George Will even approves of Goolsbee:

Economics is the only academic discipline that in recent decades has moved in the direction that America and much of the world has moved, to the right. Goolsbee no doubt has lots of dubious ideas -- he is, after all, a Democrat -- about how government can creatively fiddle with the market's allocation of wealth and opportunity. But he seems to be the sort of person -- amiable, empirical and reasonable -- you would want at the elbow of a Democratic president, if such there must be.

John Edwards. Personally, Edwards is my choice for the next President. He made his millions as a trial lawyer, meaning he never gave in to the corporate interests, but actually took from them, and, against their will. From personal experience in court, Edwards knows how dirty and underhandedly vicious they can be. As practicing attorney BenGoshi explained in a hard-hitting diary on Sunday asking Obama supporters to show Obama has what it takes to confront the coporatista:

I'm an attorney.  I've compromised and settled many more cases than I've had to try.  But I also know, from about 17 years of experience in taking on the worst of offenders, that no large corporation or insurance company has, or will, EVER come to the bargaining table unless their made to:  appeals to "reason" and "doing the right thing" are taken as weakness by the corporate behemoths.  Mind you, they can be brought to the negotiating table:  when you've got their balls in a vice.  

There would be the same capital flight and punitive financial retaliation as with Kucinich, but I think Edwards would revel in the challenge, and personally savor using the instruments of state to hunt the bastards down and bring them to justice.

A possible problem with Edwards is that he has turned for economics advice to Leo Hindery, a former chairman of the National Cable Television Association, who made $247 million as head of Global Center, which he merged with Exodus Communications. In 2004, Hindery was the money bags behind the Obama ads featuring Osama bin Laden which helped derail the Howard Dean campaign. There is a good bio of Hindery in the dKospedia. To be fair, Hindery is not a born and bred rich prick, and really seems to have thrown himself into political activism. He lent his voice to the outrage over the big tax break given to hedge fund managers last year.

Offsetting the possible problems of having Hindery as an economics adviser, is the fact that a number of leading progressive economists recently endorsed Edwards. Among them is Thomas I. Palley, formerly Assistant Director of Public Policy at the AFL-CIO. He is now working on his own project, Economics for Democratic & Open Societies, to stimulate public discussion about what kinds of economic arrangements and conditions are needed to promote democracy and open society. In 1998, his book, Plenty of Nothing: The Downsizing of the American Dream and the Case for Structural Keynesianism, was published by Princeton University Press.

In the autumn of 2002, Palley published a paper in the Journal of Post Keynesian Economics entitled, "Economic contradictions coming home to roost? does the U.S. economy face a long-term aggregate demand generation problem?" in which he
argues that the

U.S. economy confronts deeper seated problems concerning the aggregate demand generation process. For two decades, these problems have been obscured by a range of demand compensation mechanisms -- rising consumer debt, a stock market boom, and rising profit rates. Now, these mechanisms are exhausted. Fiscal policy adjustments and dollar depreciation are the only stable exits from this impasse, but they must be accompanied by measures rectifying the income distribution imbalances at the root of the problem. Absent this, deficient demand will reassert itself.

Clearly, Palley is an economist who actually gets the picture. In another paper in March 2006, Palley impressively and quite accurately forecast the bursting of the U.S. housing bubble as part of a larger effort to address the increasingly dangerous imbalances in the world financial system. In that paper, which is entitled  "The Fallacy of the Revised Bretton Woods Hypothesis: Why Today's System is Unsustainable and Suggestions for a Replacement," Palley blames these imbalances directly on the ill effects of "neo-liberal" economics. This paper is also an excellent introduction to why "neo-liberal " radical free market economics will always result in disaster.

Another of the economists who endorsed Edwards and who explicitly rejects "neo-liberal " radical free market economics is Gerald Epstein, who edited the excellent 2005 book, Financialization and the World Economy, which I referenced near the beginning. You can read Epstein's introduction to the book here. Take the time to read it, especially if you are going to vote tomorrow in New Hampshire.

Display:
The New York Times interviewed a few of the candidates' economic advisors yesterday. You can read it here: What Does A Presidential Candidate's Economic Adviser Actually Do?. A longer listing of candidates' economic advisors was in the marketwatch.com article on April 27, 2007, available here
by NBBooks on Mon Jan 7th, 2008 at 06:38:26 PM EST
Excellent diary, NBB! Thanks!

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Mon Jan 7th, 2008 at 07:51:30 PM EST
Brilliant!

I have been writing similar things since the early 1980s.  For example:
http://www.eurotrib.com/story/2007/1/18/191310/123

Nice to discover a kindred soul.  After nearly 35 years of finance capitalism, it is good to see there ARE a few sane survivors.

"Remember the I35W bridge--who needs terrorists when there are Republicans"

by techno (reply@elegant-technology.com) on Tue Jan 8th, 2008 at 03:03:09 AM EST
Yours was the post that crystallized the idea for me. I had been thinking along those lines, but saw instantly that framing it, as you did, as industrial capitalism versus financial capitalism was the best way to present it to an American audience. Thank you.
by NBBooks on Tue Jan 8th, 2008 at 10:06:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thank YOU!

I have had my moments but I never wrote this:

Crotty explains that the pressures of neo-liberal economics have created a new class of idiots savant -- the professional manager -- who believe that managing a company that produces semi-conductor lithographing equipment is not that much different than managing a chain of brothels in Nevada. The typical American manager with MBA in hand no longer views industrial companies as long-term enterprises in which they must carefully nurture a strong commitment to long-run goals by top management, lower level management, specialized professionals, white- and blue-collar workers, and the firm's traditional suppliers. Rather the professional manager views industrial companies as units or collections of sub-units that are liquid assets which can be sold off to capital markets if they "underperform." That pretty much demolishes any idea of long-term commitments or long-term loyalties.
 


"Remember the I35W bridge--who needs terrorists when there are Republicans"
by techno (reply@elegant-technology.com) on Tue Jan 8th, 2008 at 12:34:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
into a socialogy of knowledge dependent on transaction value. Aside from a generalizable expectation of "risk" dependent on an increasingly foreshortened, inverse rate of return, there is an integral dependency on licenses to limit market participation and hence detection of arbitrage. By license I mean extra-legal professional credentialling (e.g. MBA, PhD) as well as formal certifications by the state (e.g. MD, CPA, JD). Such licenses easily extend and facilitate totalitarian regimes be they mere ideological endorsements or instrumental to extending state monopolies over capital, discoverable facts, and violence.

I loved the link to Goolsbee's CV, particularly "academic" publications. I downloaded one article and discovered the dataset was acquired from Forrester.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Tue Jan 8th, 2008 at 02:17:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
in all generous respect...huh?

I am pretty sure that whatever you mean, it is the direct opposite of the quote.

Or not.

All I know is that whatever you mean by

into a socialogy of knowledge dependent on transaction value. Aside from a generalizable expectation of "risk" dependent on an increasingly foreshortened, inverse rate of return, there is an integral dependency on licenses to limit market participation and hence detection of arbitrage
I would be willing to bet big money that you have never participated in the production of say, an integrated circuit, at any level.  I have hung out with folks who have organized the production of difficult things my whole life and I can assure you that I have NEVER heard such a clunker from any of them.

And that is the point.  IF we want to build a better future, we MUST take the builders seriously, with honor and respect.  To reduce the life's work of human geniuses to concepts like "arbitrage" does not demonstrate respect.  It doesn't even demonstrate a minimal awareness of what builders do.  There are feats of human imagination that we can barely imagine--necessary to the very survival of the human race, that will never see the light of day because economists haven't clue one about how the world they live in came to be, and sociologists who deem themselves clever because they think this is about "licenses to limit market participation".

"Remember the I35W bridge--who needs terrorists when there are Republicans"

by techno (reply@elegant-technology.com) on Tue Jan 8th, 2008 at 11:48:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
a whole lot better than I understood your reaction.  MT exemplified the comment with the next sentence (not quoted by you) of the comment.  What prompted your reaction?

Second item - C. Wright Mills covered this ground no later than 1956 (publication date of The Power Elite).  Are you familiar with the work?

paul spencer

by paul spencer (paulgspencer@gmail.com) on Wed Jan 9th, 2008 at 01:32:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, I didn't understand MT either, can you parse it?

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 9th, 2008 at 05:28:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
MT says that:
  1. 'yes' to the negative characterization of the contribution of [most] holders of the MBA degree;
  2. similarly, many other degrees and professional 'titles' have become instruments of remuneration - as opposed IMO to signs of actual or potential contribution to fields of knowledge/endeavor that benefit society;
  3. the holders of these degrees and titles use the respect that still attains to their status to reenforce the status quo - as opposed IMO to analyzing problems for root causes and recommending corrective actions such as systemic changes.

By the way - my comment didn't exactly say that I claimed to understand MT's statements.  It was phrased poorly, perhaps, but the jist of my post was to ask about the nature of the previous comment, which seemed to me to criticize MT in what I will call a non-comradely fashion.

paul spencer
by paul spencer (paulgspencer@gmail.com) on Wed Jan 9th, 2008 at 11:11:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If MT is a non-native English speaker, then I perhaps owe him an apology for my blast at his ridiculously pretentious writing.  If he IS a native English speaker, I was being kind and generous.

When I wrote that, I had just returned from a a wonderful evening spent with a 91-year-old man who is easily the brightest person I know (still).  We spent the evening discussing climate change and what could be done about it.  He has a PhD from MIT and spent his life producing some of the more critical elements of modern society.  Yet he is precisely the sort of person an MBA would consider expendable because he is 'merely' an engineer.  

The problem with MBAs is that they have NO idea of what they are destroying--they just know that if they can extract a 'profit', they will keep their overpaid jobs.  They are dangerous--NOT because of arbitrage or whatever social theory a sociologist thinks is cute these days, but because they are amoral pirates.  And no amount of academic gibberish will hide that fact.

"Remember the I35W bridge--who needs terrorists when there are Republicans"

by techno (reply@elegant-technology.com) on Thu Jan 10th, 2008 at 02:10:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
An interesting book from Henry Mintzberg: Managers, not MBAs

Here is an excerpt of a review: Not another MBA!

He's gone so far as to say that MBAs should be tattooed with a skull and crossbones and the disclaimer "Warning: Not Prepared to Manage." Mintzberg insists the "dangerous people are those whose confidence exceeds their competence. MBA programs not only attract significant numbers of such people, but also encourage their tendencies."


"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Thu Jan 10th, 2008 at 05:39:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I've  been away from ET. While Mr Spencer has elaborated well my comment, I'd like to settle some other of your concerns.

1.English is my native language. I am even proficient in sentence diagramming.

2.It's my M.O. to avoid writing essays within a comment facility. I do not go from blog to blog with prepared statements anyway. Consequently, my thought process may appear to jump to conclusions, depending on how lazy I am when I post. Assumptions about a casual readers' lexical preparation --dare I say, knowledge?-- for my remarks sometimes constrain their composition, sometimes not. I've been ridiculed at times by blog participants for using jargon (properly) or not, ethnocentric slang, complex sentences, off-line citations, metaphor, parody, and so on. Some misunderstanding between the reader and writer is surmountable, if either is predisposed to accomplishing that arduous task.

For example, "socialogy" is an obvious typographic error; the correct spelling is of course "sociology." Sociology denotes a formal study of groups or, as statistically relevant, classes, of people and their interactions, as I assumed you know. The quote subject is "a new class of idiots savant -- the professional manager --".

3.Yes, I am not an engineer by profession. However, my education in management science, purportedly a business discipline, indeed qualifies me to be an "idiot savant." But as it happens, I've conducted primary research into knowledge management practices --conservation, distribution, technical and ethical systems, structural dependencies, etc-- of various firms. One of these was Arup. Doubtless knowledge management is an economic activity.

For these reasons, my inelegant prose concerned not the attributes of any one profession but the group of people, labelled "idiot savant," and how societies (within a society) determine professional "license", therefore the knowledge requirements of the "professional manager." One attribute of this "class" given in the quote reveals the fungibility of its knowledge requirements: "who believe that managing a company that produces semi-conductor lithographing equipment is not that much different than managing a chain of brothels in Nevada." In short, the managerial function is to replicate known methods of turning a profit as quickly as possible, irrespective of specialized knowledge or operational complexity defining the ongoing concern. ("foreshortened, inverse rate of return")

4. I assumed, that the commercial and legal value of a license [read: certification] as distinct from license [read: freedom] is undisputed. (Are you aware that MBA's have argued for a legal license? OMG. (See for example Khurana et al.) I hardly expected your complaint; that is my error. Perhaps I should have not forgotten to include trade licenses in my litany of "idiot savants."

Nonetheless, I still fail to understand how my remarks are "the opposite of the quote." I address systematic mechanisms which qualify proprietary and personal expertise, given "neocon" value system in effect; that value system is axiomatically speaking financial. While the degree to which specialization of labor, forced by politically conservative fiscal management, deserves attention, your criticism of me above seems to advocate chiefly the social status of "builders."

I ask, how does one quantify and qualify "social status"?


Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Sun Jan 13th, 2008 at 04:13:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Indeed. The Danish universities are currently being run into the ground - nose first and on full afterburner - by Management Myth cultists and a minister of higher education who couldn't tell a university from a coal mine if he tried - which he doesn't.

Calling those people idiot savants is doing idiots a severe disservice.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Jan 8th, 2008 at 06:55:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sorry to be pssimistic..t eh cahnces of an candidate to shove Wall street is zero in any count.

None of them is a FDR.

The only way it can work out is for WS to implode and then ahve some leverage.. but actually all of them wuld go to WS rescue.

As Krugman said " frankly ,at the end of the day, I do not see anyone paying for any of this creative financial thinking" (or something to the effect).

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Tue Jan 8th, 2008 at 03:59:16 AM EST
"So, this diary is strictly focused on ECONOMICS, and I would like the comments to not stray from that sole topic."

Would love to post a comment but since I'm a non-economist and my comment would be strictly psychological based on my decades of dealing with humans, I will follow the author's request and remain quiet (to the best of my ability).

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Jan 8th, 2008 at 09:16:07 AM EST
No, please, go ahead. That request was intended more for dKos because I wanted to avoid the "your candidate sucks"  flames that have made that place a blast furnace this primary season. The discussion here appears to avoid such word wars entirely. Actually, this diary is not so much about economics as it is about political economy, including "using the instruments of state to hunt the bastards down and bring them to justice." So please weigh in.
by NBBooks on Tue Jan 8th, 2008 at 10:03:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
[ET Moderation Technology™] Did you intend to duplicate the first two paragraphs above and below the fold? I took the liberty of commenting out the ones below the fold.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jan 8th, 2008 at 10:20:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No. Thank for catching and correcting that.
by NBBooks on Tue Jan 8th, 2008 at 12:40:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A very nice diary indeed - and quite refreshing after the latest hysterical round of horse race chatter that passes for political discourse in a prez campaign.

Not inspiring much hope mind you, but refreshing :-)

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Tue Jan 8th, 2008 at 10:36:13 AM EST
European Tribune - Who will tell Wall Street to shove it?
I'm not talking about them being capitalists and what we need being socialism (how anyone can still pine for socialism, after the miserable record of state socialism since the Bolshevik Revolution made Russia the first test lab, is beyond my understanding).

Right. Because authoritarian, totalitarian Socialism is the only one we can conceive of. Remember, there are only two games in this town: Evil, nasty Socialism which is always, invariable, inevitable bad, bad, bad, GULAG. And then Capitalism which embodies true freedom, and let's conveniently forget that in all its incarnations it has yielded unspeakable horrors, when not at home then in sweatshops, mines and near toxic waste dumps abroad, all for the sake of PROFIT. You see, if you hurt people for more money, they are regrettable collateral damage of sound ethical practice at striving for excellence. Money: the great moral abstractor! "I didn't mean to kill those people! They were just too poor to pay for food at market prices! And those other ones? Well, they should have known to move off the land I intended to use as a toxic waste dump! Unintended side-effects in pursuit of Profit, that's all." Yes indeed! Let's all be reasonable people and agree that Socialism is a dirty word. How many did Stalin kill? Let's not count the victims of Capital, that would be unfair! Externalities are never counted.

Unless and until Capitalism manages to address its many bugs, I shall assume they are structural and systematic. Perhaps their ill effects can be minimized through some form of socialdemocracy, which tries to combine various aspects of Capitalism and Socialism for a system benefiting the many and not the few. If properly configured, with due care for labour and environmental protection at home and abroad, and with Incorporated entities properly regulated and subordinate to the State, I suppose we could give it another try. Might be a good idea, even. In particular if we should indeed encounter a resource constrained world, as I think we will, where the benefit and rights of the many will even more surely have to come before that of the right to Property and Profit by the few. This probably means nationalizing or communalizing some key industries. Broadsides against a caricature Socialism, and constant assurances of ones opposition to it, are likely to weaken efforts when curbing corporate power and pursuing selective nationalizations, as accusations of Socialism can then be levied, and its inherent badness is something already agreed upon. See opposition to nationalized healthcare in the US.

by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Tue Jan 8th, 2008 at 10:37:34 AM EST
I have written a diary excerpting what John Stuart Mill had to say about Socialism in the 1860's.

Interestingly (though that's not in the excerpts), he sort of predicted that Socialism couldn't be imposed by force without turning oppressive, and in that sense his prediction has been vindicated. But he also famously said that "the principle of private property has never had a fair trial" and, though he may have had a point back then, I think by now it is clear that it has had its fair trial under "democratic" conditions and it has proven itself to be as toxic as Mill described it to be back then.

The principle of private property has never yet had a fair trial in any country; and less so, perhaps, in this country than in some others. The social arrangements of modern Europe commenced from a distribution of property which was the result, not of just partition, or acquisition by industry, but of conquest and violence: and notwithstanding what industry has been doing for many centuries to modify the work of force, the system still retains many and large traces of its origin. The laws of property have never yet conformed to the principles on which the justification of private property rests. They have made property of things which never ought to be property, and absolute property where only a qualified property ought to exist. They have not held the balance fairly between human beings, but have heaped impediments upon some, to give advantage to others; they have purposely fostered inequalities, and prevented all from starting fair in the race. That all should indeed start on perfectly equal terms, is inconsistent with any law of private property: but if as much pains as has been taken to aggravate the inequality of chances arising from the natural working of the principle, had been taken to temper that inequality be every means not subversive to the principle itself; if the tendency of legislation had been to favour the diffusion, instead of the concentration, of wealth--to encourage the subdivision of the large masses, instead of striving to keep them together; the principle of individual property would have been found to have no necessary connexion with the physical and social evils almost all Socialist writers assume to be inseparable from it.
Capitalists have to bite the bullet. Either for the past 100 years or so we have had private property at its best, or not even reasonably democratic states can tame private property, and one has to conclude that it is a monster.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jan 8th, 2008 at 10:58:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This would be an interesting topic to consider: is socialism inherently authoritarian? My belief at this time is that it is not; the social democracies of Europe look ever more inviting with each passing day in this greed-stricken country, the U.S. Why did socialism fail in Russia, China, Korea, and so many other places? Why has an uneasy merger of socialism and capitalism succeeded in France, Sweden, Italy, and other countries? How do you measure success or failure of socialism or capitalism?

But at this time, I am most concerned with the credit crises which began in August 2007, because I believe the economic pain they are going to cause brings an opportunity - a historic opportunity - to defeat the American expression of radical free market capitalism, which is unfortunately called by economists "neo-liberalism."

After some 12 years or so hiatus, during which I focused on being a book seller, I have re-immersed myself in reading on economics, finance, and industry. I have concluded that this American expression of radical free market capitalism, this "neo-liberalism," was not a natural or inevitable development; that it is at least partially driven by the agenda of very powerful financial interests. More importantly, I am convinced that "neo-liberalism" is a separate and distinct form of capitalism; that "neo-liberalism" is an expression of capitalism in the extreme. Crotty explains it very well in the book Financialization and the World Economy and I intend to write another diary soon focusing just on Crotty's chapter (after responding to Jerome's request for a diary on government statistics). A six-page summary, that just is not as good as the chapter in the book, is available here: The Neoliberal Paradox: The Impact of Destructive Product Market Competition and Impatient Finance on Nonfinancial Corporations in the Neoliberal Era.

One of the key ideas I left out of this diary is Crotty's explanation that the period 1946 to the 1970s, which can be considered the "Golden Age" of industrial capitalism, was

characterized by what Schumpeter called `correspective competition,' inter firm relations based on partial cooperation rather than all out war. Of particular importance, firms avoided predatory pricing and capital investment wars that destroy profits and create large-scale industry excess capacity. By placing upper limits on capacity and lower limits on price, firms generated secure oligopoly rents, which were used in part to fund the high road labor relations that were the hallmark of the dominant firms of the era. High road labor relations, in turn, helped generate high productivity growth and rapidly rising real wages. Closing the Golden Age virtuous circle, rising wages, low unemployment ' and fast-paced investment helped sustain strong private demand growth.

In the neoliberal era, by way of contrast, deregulation, increasingly open borders, and the end of a commitment by government to pursue high growth through Keynesian macro policies have destroyed the conditions necessary for corespective behavior. We have witnessed an outbreak of what I have called 'coercive competition' (Crotty 1993) based on cut-throat pricing, the destruction of secure oligopoly rents, over-investment relative to demand - creating chronic excess capacity, and fast-paced technical innovation that often renders recently constructed capital goods prematurely obsolete and the debt that financed them unpayable.

With their survival threatened by fierce competition, much of it international in character, large firms were forced to adopt shorter planning horizons.  Semi-cooperative  management-labor relations  were  now considered unviable because firms had to slash labor costs through downsizing and wage cuts to survive beyond the short run. Conflict-driven labor relations became the order of the day.

Thus, a new form, an extremist form of capitalism, began to emerge. Note that one of the keystones of contemporary orthodox economic thought is that competition is always good. Crotty shows that this is simply not true.

The "Golden Age" of capitalism I choose to call industrial capitalism (thanks to techno for the original idea). Many authors in Financialization and the World Economy show how and why the adoption of "neo-liberal" radical free markets led to an increasing share of national income being diverted to the financial sector, i.e. financialization. Hence, the name techno and I use, financial capitalism.

The challenge today is to steer the economy back from financial capitalism to industrial capitalism while re-aligning aggregate demand generation in a more socially useful, environmentally friendly direction.

One great irony is that the economic success of Korea and Japan in the post-war period was due entirely to the successful inculcation of the tenets of industrial capitalism, complete with oligopolistic structures in industry - the chaebol in Korea, and I forget the term used in Japan (help, someone?). When the United States in the 1970s and 1980s began to pressure Korea and Japan to adopt more and more "neo-liberal" economic policies, the inevitable result was a series of financial crises and economic slowdown. Indeed, Robinson Rojas shows that world trade and output in 1948-73 is half or less what it was in 1973-98 by a number of metrics. (See his pasper, International capital: a threat to human dignity  and life on planet earth at
http://www.rrojasdatabank.org/dev3000.htm

Rojas is a fine example to end with here, because one final point I would like to make is that today, some of the best and most useful economic analysis and critiques of neo-liberal economics is being done from an explicitly Marxist perspective. In fact, as someone here noted a few weeks ago, Marx forecast that capitalism would move to a stage in which it was dominated by the financial sector. Which brings us back to the beginning with another way of phrasing the question: if Marxism is a useful tool of economic analysis, why has it failed when applied to the practical problems of governing a polity and an economy?

by NBBooks on Tue Jan 8th, 2008 at 02:18:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
NBBooks:
I forget the term used in Japan (help, someone?)

Keiretsu

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Tue Jan 8th, 2008 at 03:23:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
  1. Define socialism.

  2. Define capitalism.

  3. Show one instance of each in the real world.

Ideologies never survive their first contact with reality.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Jan 8th, 2008 at 03:29:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
if Marxism is a useful tool of economic analysis, why has it failed when applied to the practical problems of governing a polity and an economy?

This question requires a whole series of diaries!

I suggest to read  Cornelius Castoriadis's criticism of Marxism, especially his criticism of Marx's philosophy of history...

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

by Melanchthon on Tue Jan 8th, 2008 at 03:31:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Why did socialism fail in Russia, China, Korea, and so many other places?

A strong case can be made, I think, that in Russia, China and North Korea it was not socialism that failed so much as the notion of armed revolution achieving anything worthwhile. The examples of armed revolutions I can think of that did not eat their children can be counted on one hand, and you wouldn't even need all the fingers. It seems that there is something about armed revolutions that sets the resulting government up for failure.

I personally suspect that part of the explanation is that a partisan army - or any army for that matter - attracts precisely the kind of people that you do not want within a thousand km of political power. It is also entirely possible that the harsh necessities of a revolution tend to cull those people with the traits desirable in a post-revolutionary transitional government.

Another part is surely that armed revolution breaks the most fundamental part of the social contract, meaning that a revolutionary government has a very hard time re-establishing the legitimacy of the state. After all, if Power By Kalashnikov was legitimate for the first batch of revolutionaries, it is bound to make the next gang of wanna-be-reformers/dictators/freedom fighters/terrorists at least a little more trigger-happy.

A third part of the explanation is probably that a revolution necessarily involves some kind of purges of the old elite - and not infrequently this includes a lot of the people who actually know how to run a country. Further, when consolidating power after a revolution or coup, loyalty to the new regime might be more important - at least initially - than competence. Which is likely to start a vicious circle where mismanagement leads to violence, which leads to a greater emphasis on loyalty in government appointments, which leads to patronage and cronyism, which leads to more mismanagement. Rinse, lather, repeat.

Finally, it should be considered that countries in which a partisan faction actually has a snowflake's chance in a blast furnace of pulling off a full-blown revolution already has a severely weakened central government. Such countries are unlikely to be the very models of democracy and stability in the first place.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Jan 8th, 2008 at 07:17:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not to speak of the fact that successful revolutions tend to find themselves under attack by external forces scared that the revolution might spread. Examples: the French Revolution, the Spanish Revolution of 1823, the Paris Commune, the Russian Revolution of 1917, the Hungarian revolution of 1956, the Cuban Revolution, the Prague Spring...

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jan 8th, 2008 at 07:25:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
to this part of the discussion.  Unless we subscribe to the notion that prehistoric society was socialistic (who knows?), then this sort of social experiment is rather a new feature in our world.  And, as Migeru suggests, it has not been allowed even so much as an armistice in which to develop in peace and security.

paul spencer
by paul spencer (paulgspencer@gmail.com) on Wed Jan 9th, 2008 at 01:08:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I wouldn't go that far. There are some examples of successful Socialist communities which have been tolerated by their neighbours: the worker collectives during the recent Argentine economic crisis; Christiania in Copenhagen (arguably under attack by the current right-wing administration); the Kibbutzim in Israel.

Argentina transitioned relatively peacefully into "functioning anarchy" and then also peacefully reverted to a more capitalistic model.

Apparently the Kibbutzim have also largely abandoned their communist ways. But that seems more related to generational issues (the young born into a Kibbutz leaving it).

And what of the Amish?

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 9th, 2008 at 05:26:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
it seems to me that it dilutes your first statement. As you say, the idealism of the Kibbutzim is more memory than reality at this stage.  I have heard it argued by Jewish friends that that movement was cultivated when it was seen as a 'carrot' for development and maintenance of a militant nationalism.

As you say, Christiania seems to be a target of 'City Hall'.  And the history of 'worker collectives' has always been one of struggle: external and internal.

As for the Amish, they were not socialistic in rural western New York, when I built a house there in 1978. They were community-oriented to a very healthy degree IMO, but they owned their own businesses and their own farms and were essentially self-reliant within family units.

Barn-raisings are a form of barter exchange in that every family involved can expect similar treatment when needed.  That is probably a good basis for certain transactions (Chris - barn units?) and can be considered socialistic in underlying principle, but it is the only such example that I can remember.

paul spencer

by paul spencer (paulgspencer@gmail.com) on Wed Jan 9th, 2008 at 11:39:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The answer to the question is that we all will simply by using new "peer to peer" financial structures that disintermediate them.

As Gilmore almost said:

"The Internet interprests Banks as Damage and routes around them".

Wall Street could still have a role to play as service providers if they add value: but the day of financial middlemen, extracting value, is almost over.

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Tue Jan 8th, 2008 at 11:07:55 AM EST
Did you see Ian Walsh's "Why Financial Crises Will Keep Happening" yesterday?
http://agonist.org/ian_welsh/20080106/why_financial_crises_will_keep_happening
I would like to read your reaction to it.
by NBBooks on Tue Jan 8th, 2008 at 12:42:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The problem is systemic, and the solution must also be, (and is emerging, I believe) systemic because the pervasive spread of the Internet is introducing structural changes through its disintermediating "Direct Connect" effect.

We are moving from Market 2.0 (Centralised but Connected, with "Market presence" through agents) to Market 3.0 (Decentralised but Connected, with a "network presence" in the market).

The key to the successful conclusion of this process is the introduction by general adoption  of a consensual, "two way" (not imposed "one way" legislation) legal model where all stakeholders are "on the same side" and share risk and reward equitably.

The current system relies upon two different, but equally "broken" forms of Finance Capital (ie legal claims over prodcutive assets) in terms of risk and reward sharing:

(a) "Debt" (particularly secured debt) where the rewards are not shared fairly because the creditor is entitled to a fixed return irrespective of the debtor's ability to pay;

(b) "Equity" where, again, risk and reward are not shared equitably as between the "owners" and every other "externalised" stakeholder aka "costs".

So in conclusion I believe that this time it's the end of the line for the existing system. Sure we'll see some turbulence as we pass through the "barrier", but we will do so successfully, because the alternative is unthinkable.


"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Tue Jan 8th, 2008 at 04:24:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
...how anyone can still pine for socialism, after the miserable record of state socialism since the Bolshevik Revolution made Russia the first test lab, is beyond my understanding

Nice straw man, there.

Coming on the heels of this accurate quote

There is NO solution to these financial and economic crises within the presently accepted economic belief structure of U.S. elites.
it is hard for me to figure out anything other than incongruency here.

Socialism does not equal bolshevism any more than Pol Pot does not equal socialism.

Seems to me this throw-away comment sort of underlines the 70-year long American tradition of instinctive red-baiting...

Otherwise, nice diary. Recommended on kos for setting them straight on neo-liberalism and the good call on its present demise.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Tue Jan 8th, 2008 at 11:12:49 AM EST
some functions are naturally social.  For instance, there is no justification for 'private' insurance.  It is simply a scam by which money cycles through an interchange, where the gatekeeper skims a certain amount from every cycle.  Insurance doesn't do, transform, or create any value; but it's necessary when disasters - personal or larger - occur.  To paraphrase what the Sergeants used to say in Basic Training, "Sounds like a social problem to me, grunt."

'Commodities' - present examples include petroleum, electricity, basic steel, basic aluminum - are essentially undifferentiated in terms of source, technical processes, and product.  What does 'industrial capitalism' bring to these items?  If a company develops a micro-alloyed steel that serves some niche purpose, then it should have some legal control over the production and marketing for some limited time or financial yield as a reward for innovation.  But the production of standard low-carbon steels, for instance, should be rationalized to optimize efficiencies related to raw materials' source, energy supply, and markets with respect to costs, environmental impacts, transportation, etc.  Rationalization requires some kind of centralized control.

As to Chris' point, I agree wholeheartedly with his schemes regarding many economic concerns and relationships.  (He won't quite admit it, but his concepts are essentially socialistic.)  However, underlying healthy local economies is some level of base material production and distribution.  Until we establish planning in manufacturing processes, and until we improve fairness in distribution; we will have the same 'system' that generates and recreates the greed implicit in 'financial capitalism', that ignores environmental damage in pursuit of profit, and that understates the human costs as 'collateral damage'.

paul spencer

by paul spencer (paulgspencer@gmail.com) on Tue Jan 8th, 2008 at 12:59:24 PM EST
Well, I agree that private insurance by insurance intermediaries is a scam, but state run insurance schemes are typically monolithic and bureaucratic nightmares.

A service provider model, close to that of P & I Clubs in the shipping industry is what I would advocate. In this model "mutual" insurance schemes are run by a service provider such as Thomas Miller.

I would configure it slightly differently, but not a whole lot, by making sure that the service provider was owned by its staff, and suitable governance arrangements agreed as between the service users and service providers.

(He won't quite admit it, but his concepts are essentially socialistic.)

What's in a name?

I have been a fan of mutuality and cooperation all my life. When I read definitions of Socialism and Communism I don't find too much to disagree with, but the implementation has never kept up with the theory.

If anything, I maybe tend towards Guild Socialism.

I do not believe in a State which is legally separate from the people, which is why the concept of an "Open Corporate" - a participative framework within which individual sovereignty and a consensual mutual responsibility combine - appeals to me a great deal.

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Tue Jan 8th, 2008 at 03:22:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
From The NewYorker:



"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

by Melanchthon on Tue Jan 8th, 2008 at 05:00:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Communications and potential for agreement at the least.  Words do not hold power intrinsically, as ancient cultures may have thought, but they create the conditions for concurrence that can lead to actions.  Socialism is a good word in and of itself.  The real problems arise when it is modified by terms such as National.  On the other hand Democratic is a useful modifier.

Implementation is a function of conditions and the character of the active participants.  Let's see if we can advance the practice.

paul spencer

by paul spencer (paulgspencer@gmail.com) on Wed Jan 9th, 2008 at 01:24:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Excellent diary. I believe events determine how effective a President will be. If a major recession is finally felt and understood by most of the country; I have confidence that all top three Dem candidates will be strong enough to take the necessary action. Obama has had to appear moderate in order to be electable and if that means having neo liberal economic advisors; so be it. Edwards is the best candidate for President because what he is saying is easily understood and Edwards has the best chance to win the election, if nominated. Even Clinton wouldnt have her head in the sand as she is smart enough and not ideologically bent to not surmise strong action needs to be taken.

But any President will need a Congress which is more afraid of the electorate voting them out of office than their 'Wall Street' contributors not financing their campaigns and that is when we come into action because if we the people can make them understand the shit has hit the fan economically then they may understand their political careers are in jeopardy.

by An American in London on Tue Jan 8th, 2008 at 01:26:47 PM EST
strong enough to take the necessary action

That presumes that they know what the necessary action is, and frankly, I think that if any of them do it's not yet evident.

What is it you have in mind that they would do?

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Tue Jan 8th, 2008 at 02:26:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The current system is unsustainable only from a particular point of view. Those on top have shown throughout history that they are willing to ride their societies through the floor as long as they can maintain their position relative to the rest of the society they live in.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Jan 8th, 2008 at 01:44:46 PM EST
Burma, Zimbabwe, etc.
by Zwackus on Wed Jan 9th, 2008 at 10:43:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Tax the rich an appropriate tax rate and change the trend from corporations paying approximately 25% of tax receipts to a greater proportion. Be a Keynesian Democrat for a change and actually have programs which will help the average American like fortifying the infrastructure, education, single payor eventual healthcare like Edwards plan is proposing, making the same commitment by the American government to protecting the environment and subsidizing the start up of environmental businesses as the government did with the defense and high tech industries.

Figuring out a way in which the media would have to guarantee free forums for candidates at all levels of government combined with punitive laws only allowing very minimal contributions by individuals and nothing by the 527's etc. Strictest lobbying policies which would be required to have an ombudsman to point out any detrimental lobbyist proposals to the majority of Americans and having laws that the politicians would always have to side with the greater interest of the electorate.

That would be a good 100 days work to begin with.

by An American in London on Tue Jan 8th, 2008 at 04:53:11 PM EST
Excellent programme. Pity you're not standing... ;-)

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson
by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Tue Jan 8th, 2008 at 05:27:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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