Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.

Tuesday Open Thread

by afew Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 09:52:44 AM EST

"The time has come," the Walrus said,
"To talk of many things:
Of shoes--and ships--and sealing-wax--
Of cabbages--and kings--
And why the sea is boiling hot--
And whether pigs have wings."


Display:
Shoe blogging we have done, but sealing-wax blogging or cabbage blogging might make a change.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 09:54:24 AM EST
Well, for the cabbage - this week I had the first time Sauerkraut made from red cabbage, and it was very delicious.

We have a farmer coming from the Alsace, twice a week and she makes the Sauerkraut herself with not additions, except for the salt - the best you can get.

by Fran on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 10:29:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I like sauerkraut, but only know it with suasage and mustard. what else would it go with ?

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 10:35:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Potatoes!

However, I eat it as salad raw. A while ago I found to my amazement that it goes well with a little olive oil and I add different things, like tomatoes, pinaples, oranges, apples what ever is in the fridge. It is amazingly versatile.

by Fran on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 10:38:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Interesting idea

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 10:42:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Smoked tofu.

If you eat that kind of thing.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 12:47:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Smoked tofu is lovely.
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 02:11:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Poemless, what's the matter with y'all up there?  Another governor hauled off by the feds!

This guy doesn't seem to have even been a worthy adversary for Fitz.  Taking bribes to fill Obama's Senate seat is pretty arrogant, even by the political standards of Illinois.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 09:57:19 AM EST
This guy was evidently the inspiration for the "Polish jokes."

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 10:47:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What the hell is that supposed to mean?

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
by poemless on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 11:03:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Even I ,who knows next to nothing about Illinois politics, knew that Fitzgerald was watching Blagojevich. If the charges are accurate, Blogojevich must be totally friggin' stupid and unaware of what's going on around him. In other words, a character right out of a Polish joke"- he even has the name. In France we don't have Polish jokes; we have "Belge jokes."

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 11:15:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Uhm  HE IS SERBIAN.  

Now who looks stupid...

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.

by poemless on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 11:20:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Also, there is a huge population of Polish people here, so it is really very poor taste to tell "Polish jokes."  Would be like telling jokes about blacks or Mexicans.  I don't see the humour.


Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
by poemless on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 11:23:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You're not drawing me into this trap poemless. I'll pass!

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 11:36:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not a trap.  A correction.

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
by poemless on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 11:39:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You seem to have a bit of a short fuse :-) To refer to "Polish jokes" as LEP does, and as you do in this comment, is not to tell Polish jokes.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 11:40:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No - I am just incredibly disappointed in LEP's insensitivity (This guy was evidently the inspiration for the "Polish jokes.") and ignorance (he even has the name).  Wrong on both counts.  He's a Serbian American.  And I am pretty certain ethnicity has nothing to do with stupidity.  

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
by poemless on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 11:51:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I mean, I did't see people bring up ethnicity when talking about Bush's profound stupidity or when our previous Gov. was arrested.

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
by poemless on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 11:53:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
George Bush is a WASP. I didn't think WASP jokes existed but evidently they do:


Q. What is the definition of a WASP?
A. Someone who gets out of the shower to take a leak.

Q: How can you tell if a WASP is sexually excited?
A: The stiff upper lip.


Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 12:11:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I like the stiff upper lip one.

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 01:54:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
LEP said:

In other words, a character right out of a ["]Polish joke"- he even has the name.

That is, he seems to have acted like a character in a Polish joke (which doesn't entail approval of such jokes or that one subscribes to the idea that Poles are stupid) and as it happens his name even sounds like a Polish name (whether it is or not).

Cf.:


Use-mention distinction
...
In written language, mentioned words or phrases often appear between quotation marks ("Chicago" contains three vowels) ... Used words or phrases (much more common than mentioned ones) do not bear any typographic distinction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use%E2%80%93mention_distinction

It's not "insensitive" on LEP's part, while, arguably, you are being over-sensitive.


Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 12:33:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Shut up before I troll rate you.  

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
by poemless on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 12:34:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm out of here.  Have fun LEP and Ted.  

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
by poemless on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 12:35:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Just suggesting a correction to your "correction" (above) :-)

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 12:56:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Indeed; last time I checked, only jokes about French were OK in America.
by Bernard (bernard) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 12:05:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Seriously, if you are ever in the mood to do some jail time, become the Gov. of IL.  Seems to be part of the retirement package.

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
by poemless on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 11:25:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Isn't this two or three in a row?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 11:32:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, I always suspected that the prosecution of Ryan was highly selective and was his "reward" for halting executions after the findings of the Innocence Project.  The police and prosecutors were furious and saw him as a traitor.  Made their "exemplary justice" into a bad example of injustice.  I highly doubt that that could be proved in court, but no good deed goes unpunished in our legal system.  

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 01:11:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh give me a break!  His licenses for bribes scheme led to the deaths of at least 6 children and who knows how many others.  Dead children.  Got it?

But what the hell do I know?  I just live here.  You all obviously are the experts.  Blago is a quintessential dumb Pole and Ryan is a poor martyr, is that it?  I love that when it comes to discussions of things everyone else knows a lot about, there are high intellectual standards and people have to actually prove their case when making ridiculous assertions, but when it comes to anything I might know about, if I oppose your comments based on ignorance or conspiracy theory I am just being over-sensitive!  


Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.

by poemless on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 01:27:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You all obviously are the experts.

Wait, I didn't say anything at all along those lines.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 01:29:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I wasn't responding to you.  You generally DO know what you are talking about.

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
by poemless on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 01:33:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BTW: Slightly o/t, but it sounds like Rahmbo blew the whistle on Blagojevich.

See, told y'all: With adult supervision and not being allowed to act on his own free will, little Rahm can do some good. ;)

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 01:38:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, you are being overly sensitive because you are getting pissy at comments in the Open Thread that are clearly in jest with replies of "Shut up before I troll rate you", etc. Chill!

And since when do we disallow speculation, especially when clearly stated as such? If you have some actual information you can, you know, supply it. Without getting your panties in a bunch, even.

by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 02:10:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
poemless being poemless, everyone else (even me) acting in a relatively SANE manner, in good cheer.

Same movie, never changes.

(Here comes the response.  Let's watch!)

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 02:18:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You know, this comment does sound like it has no purpose other than trolling poemless (whereas all the other comments in this thread so far have plausible deniability).

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 02:20:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Just a spectator by the side of the road.

Nothing more.

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 02:25:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
that poemless is either over-medicated or under-medicated, and I couldn't determine which ... and THAT Sir, would have been trolling, assuming I understand the term correctly.

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 02:29:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, that would have been an outright insult (assuming the fact of needing medication is demeaning, which is a whole other debate we can have elsewhere), whereas
(Here comes the response.  Let's watch!)
is trolling. Which means "go fishing for a response". (Trolling is an alternate spelling of trawling, which is a fishing technique)

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 02:36:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
From the New User Guide:

"trollish", i.e. disruptive of dialogue, or grossly insulting, or really inappropriate.

If it's merely "fishing for a response" I suppose many entirely appropriate comments, merely intended to promote discussion, would be "trolling".  

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 04:23:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ted, don't PN me on this. It's "fishing for an angry response". See wikipedia:
with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response
You're infuriating sometimes.

Twank's comment was content-free except for provoking poemless.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 04:45:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response"

The wikipedia definition, as quoted, is no better - far too general; there's nothing wrong with provoking emotional responses - like being astonished, for example - as I am that what I said could possibly "infuriate" anybody :-)  

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 06:12:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Then go and correct Wikipedia.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 06:18:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Migeru was citing it, not me.

Were I to do so, someone else would probably alter the fruit of all my labour - life's too short :-)

But I would not try to do so, as it is far easier to see what is wrong with attempted definitions of such terms, than provide an adequate general definition. This is because they have been developed by various people in different contexts with somewhat different views. Cf.


The phrase was originally coined as "Trolling for flames", where the posters intention was to incite a "flame war", the Usenet intellectual equivalent of a bar fight.

But it can vary, some variants being quite harmless, others not:


 Many trolls are just practical jokers attempting to amuse themselves and their audience. Some have genuine animosity toward a particular group or individual that they believe has done them wrong. Some are just loathsome, contemptible hooligans bent on disrupting the ordinarily peaceful exchange of useful information for their own perverted pleasure.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.troll/msg/bc2e71e19c590d8e




Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Wed Dec 10th, 2008 at 05:47:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
[ET Moderation Technology™]

Twank went to close to turning a minor tiff into a major blowup with a needlessly provocative comment (capped with the joke about medication) and I drew the line, end of story.


Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Dec 10th, 2008 at 05:56:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Um, too close.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Dec 10th, 2008 at 05:59:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Twank's comment was content-free except for provoking poemless.

Actually I don't agree, the content is clear; he's claiming that she tends to over-react quite often. In my view that's true, which is why I said she has a short fuse (cf. someone's comment). Once she got upset with Sven - of all people ! - who was politely puzzled about how he could possibly have given offense.

Twank's prediction about her response could be seen as a way of dissuading her from doing so, rather than provoking her. If she did respond he could claim to be vindicated, while if she didn't, he could claim to have made her reconsider her pattern of behaviour. Perhaps we should applaud rather than condemn :-)

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Wed Dec 10th, 2008 at 07:20:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
End of story, Ted. Drop it, now, please.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Dec 10th, 2008 at 07:28:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ted, the correct response was to leave it.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Dec 10th, 2008 at 07:30:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"the correct response" ? If I thought it was a bit unfair on Twank - one should just keep quiet ? Hmmm - doesn't seem healthy to me.  

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Wed Dec 10th, 2008 at 03:34:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ted, are you overmedicated or undermedicated? I can't figure it out.

(Here comes the response. Let's watch!)

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Dec 10th, 2008 at 03:41:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Can we put to rest this medicated issue, please?  Can we stick to attacking people for their words and attitudes and bad haircuts and leave their illnesses out of it?  

Seriously - that's not cool.  

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.

by poemless on Wed Dec 10th, 2008 at 03:46:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What's not cool? I am just composing a comment out of Twank quotes that Ted said shoud be applauded rather than condemned. According to Ted I am not trolling, because eliciting a response is encouraging discussion regardless of the nature of the response.

Did I mention this whole thread is an example of why I haven't been around ET much, lately?

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Dec 10th, 2008 at 03:52:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Whatever Mig.  You'll note I ignored Twank's comment.  

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
by poemless on Wed Dec 10th, 2008 at 04:17:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
According to Ted, by doing so you validated it. And if you had replied, you would also have validated it.

Which means that Ted's statement that Twank's comment is a-okay is not subject to empirical refutation based on your reaction or lack thereof.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Dec 10th, 2008 at 04:28:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Fortunately, I don't live by Ted's Rule of Logic.  Just ignore him too.

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
by poemless on Wed Dec 10th, 2008 at 04:30:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Did I mention this whole thread is an example of why I haven't been around ET much, lately?

Oh come on - what has been SO terrible about it?  We've had an interesting discussion of the nature of trolling :-) What's the big deal? Poemless isn't upset - she's been very "sane" about it :-)

I don't need mood medication - apart from the occasional glass of something alcoholic - and then fortunately it's a want rather than a need.

By the way - I realise being a FPer is a thankless task - but don't take it too seriously - or the trolls will be after you :-)

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Thu Dec 11th, 2008 at 11:19:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Once she got upset with Sven - of all people !

LOL!  Of all the people, too...  LOL!  Ok, that was funny.  You get funny point for that.


Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.

by poemless on Wed Dec 10th, 2008 at 03:44:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I did use the word "suspected," you are a local and, I presume, better informed.  But were the things for which he was prosecuted vastly different than things others do for which they are never even charged?  Not following local Chicago and Illinois politics, I can't answer, only suspect.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 11:31:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
LAGRAD (lesbian and gay real ale drinkers) Xmas party last night in the charles dickens pub. Very nice, especially as I managed to persuade them to let me have another starter after the main course instead of a sweet.

I ended up in one of the most expensive (but interesting) pubs in london drinking a 10% strength beer, consequently I have a persistent fog in my head today.

Not helped by my Mum breaking her foot last night so I had to take her to hospital to get it checked. she's now got her feet up, but I doubt it'll last. My mother doesn't do sitting down doing nothing.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 10:23:42 AM EST
Your Mother will have sympathy from poemless no doubt, and also my sister who had foot reconstruction surgery yesterday.  She broke it a year or two ago when she fell down a hole in the dark.  She claimed she'd have fallen down it anyway even if she hadn't been drunk.
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 10:28:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If she'd a been sober it probably would have been much worse.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 11:21:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Why I don't get all het up about Russia being full of corrupt politicians.

HOLY F.


Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.

by poemless on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 11:03:19 AM EST
I mean, THIS IS INSANE PEOPLE!!!

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
by poemless on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 11:04:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, I dunno. Arrogant, avaricious, criminal, corrupt, dumb, greedy, ignorant, stupid, talkative(!), venal - sure.

But I'm not sure about the insanity part.

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 11:11:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I thought the Chicago Tribune had gone bust, taking the LA times with it

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 11:30:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It is.  It still has to produce a paper everyday, though.  

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
by poemless on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 11:31:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Listening to the press conference.  Like a scene out of a Hollywood movie.  Fitz is like Elliot Ness.  Man, you cannot make this stuff up!  The messed up thing is that Blago can still appoint Obama's successor!  Gah!  This is absolute madness.  

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
by poemless on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 12:32:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Blago's response to Obama wanting Valerie Jarrett is pretty ballsy:

In a conversation with Harris on November 11, the charges state, Blagojevich said he knew that President-elect Obama wanted [Valerie Jarrett] for the open seat but "they're not willing to give me anything except appreciation. Fuck them."


Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 12:35:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Los Angeles long cultivated an image of being less corrupt than other "eastern" big cities.  I don't believe they were or are.  But for a while they did have massively better PR, courtesy of the LA Times.  I believe the same holds true for the entire USA, compared to the rest of the world.  It is easier and less dangerous to tell people soothing lies than to discomfort the mighty.  Financial bankruptcy for the media provides a symmetry to their long time moral and intellectual bankruptcy.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 01:24:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

From via

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 11:05:27 AM EST
Hilarious.

To be fair, it really shouldn't be a Ford in the picture, since Ford seems to have been much better behaved than GM or Chrysler.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 11:07:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm 56 years old, have owned 3 cars in my lifetime, and none of them of American make: Triumph, Datsen (Nissan), and my 28 year old VW Rabbit.

The US auto industry ... symptomatic of most of America.

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 02:08:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's nice to be right.

When all's said and done, it seems turnout in November will have been about 132m, or roughly ten million more than four years ago.  Obama will come in at about 70m to McCain's 60m, a seven- to seven-and-a-half-point margin.

Maybe Professor Curtis Gans at American University, who loudly proclaimed turnout didn't see the big jump many of us predicted, should shut his whore mouth and learn to count.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 11:20:07 AM EST
...adding...And cheers to the almost-always-brilliant Chuckie-T at MSNBC, whose 95% black turnout prediction for the key southern states turned out to be dead-on.

Why MSNBC's Chief Villager, David Gregory, is being given the Meet the Press chair instead of Chuck, I'll never know.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 11:22:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Chuck is too new on the scene; Gregory goes back to being in the White House Press Briefing Pool.

They should ax that pinhead Scarborough and put Chuck in his place; only time I watched that show (3 AM my time) was when Chuck subbed in, but they have to get rid of that dippy broad.  Totally brainless.

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 02:12:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have a YouTube account for months, but only now did I attempt an upload. Success!



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 11:41:11 AM EST
Wow! I feel I just watched an original clip from "The Jazz Singer."

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 11:51:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I saw the 1980 The Jazz Singer aaaages ago, remember the basic plot and a few scenes, but couldn't see what's the connection. Then I checked the earlier film versions -- and got what you meant :-)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 05:35:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's you by the side of the tracks?!  Did you use a camera or a phone to record it?  I'd be a bit scared to stand so close!
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 11:53:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Photo camera. I was standing safely on a platform with railing, built around an overhead line support.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 05:29:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Here in the not-familiar-with-trains U.S., when the train comes in there are multiple repeated warnings to stand back of the yellow line. But people still stand there and yak with each other...  Whoomp!
by asdf on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 07:33:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This announcement always amuses me in Bassano del Grappa, where there are two yellow lines parallel to the platform, as well as several at right angles to them....
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Wed Dec 10th, 2008 at 02:36:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Taken about 6 weeks ago with a mobile phone.  (am i breaking something with a photo this big?)

anyone else know what this is?

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 11:54:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You certainly attempted to embed a picture with the wrong link. However, even the link I took from the HTML source of your comment doesn't display anything. So, either your link was broken, or the picture is at a private page of yours for which outsiders have no access. If it's the former, could you just give a working link?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 05:17:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What's weird is i saw it as posted on my screen each time, but now not.

And when i press preview, i see it again.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 06:14:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
now again i see both.  huh?

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 06:15:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Does anyone else see a picture here?

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 06:16:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I still can't see anything, however. Check whether you have set it as for your eyes only.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 06:17:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's set to download for anybody.  As far as i know.

Shit, you asked me for some photos of this a year ago, and here one finally is, and phssht.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 06:22:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Having looked at what MobileMe is, I am pretty sure that it IS private.

I suggest you get a Photobucket.com account and upload pictures there.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 06:29:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Apple - MobileMe - Features - Gallery
When your friends and family visit your MobileMe Gallery, they're in for a show. Just upload photos from your computer or iPhone to your Gallery, and invite people to visit, download their favorites, and even contribute their own. With beautiful animated views, everyone will see your photos come to life.

I retract that...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 06:31:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I believe i have the photos set for download and viewing, and in fact, my photo of the new Wohnung was up last week and other people saw it without changing anything.  i've tried to check my settings everywhere, and so far, haven't found anything out of order.  The photos should post.

Could this one be too big?

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 06:36:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't - I'm not seeing anything, and MobileMe is known for having issues of various kinds.

Photobucket is ugly, but it's free and it doesn't seem to let people down.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 06:47:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
After my brief playing-around with Crazy Horse's gallery, I have to agree. Issues and pretty annoying, Photobucket is practical and free.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 06:50:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It appears MobileMe doesn't allow embedding. Using tips from here, I found your gallery.

I guess I am seeing two photos of the Müngstener Brücke, and one of the Bremen Hbf from a high vantage point!

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 06:40:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Scratch that, embedding is possible.



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 06:44:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm completely stunned.  First, of course the Brücke photo was for you. (The high angle hauptbahnhof was too easy... my hotel window as the sun was setting for a moment during a storm.)

But how can you post the photos and i can't?  (Hey, post one of Anya.)

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 06:48:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
See below -- I suspect something similar happened with you.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 06:51:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
OK, methinks i have a photobucket account, somewhere with some login.

That is so strange.  Does that also mean you can find my medotcom email account?  (Which you should have.)

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 06:57:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
From what I saw, only the albums are public.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 06:59:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

However, there is a curious behaviour at your gallery: sometimes if I choose an image, the image immediately goes black and is replaced by an exclamation mark -- THEN, the image link is nonsenical like in your attempts upthread.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 06:48:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Excellent sight and sounds.  The Doppler is most satisfying.  What ~speed was the train making?

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 01:29:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't know, but my guess is that it was below 80 km/h.

Wait, I can estimate it based on train length (185.3 m). Passage time is 8.9-9 seconds, so 74-75 km/h -- my guess was rather good!

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 05:24:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I had my encounter last night with the new Google/Firefox software.  I was basically held hostage by Google.  Unchecking all of their boxes would not enable the "finish" button.  I did a control-alt-del and rebooted only to find it back on my front page.  I have google as the default search engine for my MS browser and had left the Yahoo as the browser for my Firefox engine.  I finally found that clicking one box enabled the "finish button," but I still don't know what I agreed to enable.  How is this not malware?

Such arrogance richly deserves a massively heavy handed governmental response.  I doubt it will be forthcoming.  A friend of mine, (out of respect for poemless I will not specify his nominal national affiliation,) once threatened a Sacramento based company that if they didn't fix a problem their equipment had caused he would fly up to Sacramento, rent a car, go to their parking lot and slash all of the tires!  Would that someone would so react to this sort of presumptive arrogance.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 01:39:54 PM EST
ARGeezer:
Such arrogance richly deserves a massively heavy handed governmental response.

$250bn, no questions asked?

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 01:58:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Teh Google and Mozilla aren't nearly incompetent enough to warrant a handout.  Come on.  People actually use their stuff.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 02:17:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was thinking long term. ;)
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 02:18:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
FYI.

I spent last evening (blissfully ignorant of what would happen at 6 this morning) with one of our State Representatives, Julie Hamos.  Among other things, she has been the most vocal advocate for public transportation in our state legislature.  As you can imagine, there are many many seats at all levels of government in IL about to open up, as a result of Obama winning and taking half the town with him, and the shake up at the State Capital.  She's planning a run for a higher office, but I won't say what since she's not officially announced.

Anyway, here's why you care:  Her plan for funding the overhauling of our transportation system?  GAS TAX.  She said that, and there was a momentary silence in the room, and I began clapping, and so everyone else began clapping.  She said if she'd proposed such a thing a year ago, people would have laughed, but right now we just might be able to pull something like it off.  I thought of Jerome and the heat he gets on DKos for proposing a gas tax.  Well, there are actually elected officials here on the ground embracing the idea now.   It took some guts for her to put that out there.  I was really impressed.

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.

by poemless on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 02:19:13 PM EST
She said that, and there was a momentary silence in the room, and I began clapping, and so everyone else began clapping.

Kudos to you!

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 02:22:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I know.  I felt so ... brave.  :)  Also, a friend has taught me "how to clap like a man" so that it echos and sounds profound and makes everyone else clap.  It's a little weapon I have.

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
by poemless on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 02:23:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
it's a magic feeling, like being the first to clap at a live music show.

clap like a man eh?

would that involve furry palms?

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Dec 10th, 2008 at 04:25:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A politician who can make a legitimate claim to seriousness about reducing oil consumption.  If she were running in Virginia, she'd have my vote.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 02:35:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/12/9/185154/176/995/671236

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 06:57:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Brilliant J.  I thought the same, but have no connection to dkos.  Spread the meme.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 07:01:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You absolutely NEVER have my permission to do that again.  You obviously have no concept of political discretion.

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
by poemless on Wed Dec 10th, 2008 at 11:54:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You posted it on a public web-site, naming the official, and you're accusing him of lacking discretion?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Dec 10th, 2008 at 12:20:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well worth a read:

George Monbiot: Cyberspace has buried its head in a cesspit of climate change gibberish | Comment is free | The Guardian

In his fascinating book Carbon Detox, George Marshall argues that people are not persuaded by information. Our views are formed by the views of the people with whom we mix. Of the narratives that might penetrate these circles, we are more likely to listen to those that offer us some reward. A story that tells us that the world is cooking and that we'll have to make sacrifices for the sake of future generations is less likely to be accepted than the more rewarding idea that climate change is a conspiracy hatched by scheming governments and venal scientists, and that strong, independent-minded people should unite to defend their freedoms.

He proposes that instead of arguing for sacrifice, environmentalists should show where the rewards might lie: that understanding what the science is saying and planning accordingly is the smart thing to do, which will protect your interests more effectively than flinging abuse at scientists. We should emphasise the old-fashioned virtues of uniting in the face of a crisis, of resourcefulness and community action. Projects like the transition towns network and proposals for a green new deal tell a story which people are more willing to hear.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 02:43:53 PM EST
Oliver Postgate, creator of Pogles Wood, Noggin the Nog, Bagpuss, Ivor the engine and the Clangers has died.

I'm distraught. That's my childhood.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 02:49:03 PM EST
I'm wearing a black armband too today

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Dec 10th, 2008 at 07:37:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Just found this recently on the Center for American Progress website.

Interesting how few comments there are on this blog.  Such a waste.  Will have to contact them.  Might be a good IN to the Obama administration.

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 03:44:16 PM EST
And the Impeachment begins...

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
by poemless on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 05:59:49 PM EST
As an outsider, I can't help wondering - how typical is Blagojevich of the Dem establishment?

If you assume that Reid, Pelosi and the rest are smarter versions of the former governor with slightly more straightforward names, a lot of recent Dem strategery suddenly starts to make more sense.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 06:50:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah.  Democrats are typically delusional psychopaths who are stupid enough to use their phones for taking bribes when under federal investigation.  I'm sure you are on to something. It all makes sense now.  Let's bring those honest, sane, intelligent Republicans in the Bush Administration back!  

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
by poemless on Wed Dec 10th, 2008 at 11:31:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
wiki: That's dramatic. The lost ballots, I mean.
The voter turnout for this election was broadly predicted to be very high by American standards,[94] and a record number of votes were cast. The current total number of votes tallied is roughly 131 million (more, if one adds "blank" votes and totals from individual county websites), compared to 122.3 million in 2004 (which also boasted the highest record since 1968, after which the voting age was lowered to 18).
In "Voting and Registration in the Election of November 2004,"Census estimated: "The overall number of people who voted in the November 2004 election was 126 million, a record high for a presidential election year. Voter turnout increased by 15 million voters from the election in 2000. During this same 4-year period, the voting age citizen population increased by 11 million people."

Gans's error was accepting Census data at face value: "If this prediction proves accurate, turnout would be at either the same level as in 2004 or, at most, one percentage point higher (or between 60.7 percent and 61.7 percent). ...For years, CSAE and every other reputable organization working in this field had used the Census Bureau's estimates of November age-eligible population (VAP) to determine turnout." Indeed, the FEC did not report returns for 126M voters in 2004.

  2008 2004 Change
Obama (D) 69,398,862 59,028,444 0.176
McCain (R) 59,896,869 62,040,610 -0.035
Total uniparty 129,295,731 121,069,054 0.068
Total votes 131,143,410 122,295,345 0.072
source: FEC

So it's unclear why Gans would hitch his wagon to the Burnham Method. Except that common wisdom holds, closed or open primary results are poor predictors of GE results. And he'd noticed substantial, negative change in registered Republicans' turnout. I don't think this observation is wrong or insignificant.

I would say, 2006 GE and primary results by state are a sturdier premise. (+ 15% registered DP turnout in my district.) Many small turnout increases elsewhere, say 1.5 - 2.5%, accumulate. But don't add up to "landslide" victory.

10,4370,418 more people voted Democrat in 2008, but total increase in uniparty ballots was 8,226,677 (compared to +8,848,065 total turnout). The Bush/McCain lost 2,143,741 for the team which alone accounts for 20% of the DP's total gain over the cycle. Obama started out with a 2004 party deficit (3,012,166). The question remains, how many of each --registered Republicans, unaffiliateds, and Dems-- to distribute the remaining 80% -- across 50 states or just the ones with the greates EVs. I've yet to find SoS data that describes a candidate's popular total by voters' party affiliations. Maybe that will be Gans's next project.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Wed Dec 10th, 2008 at 12:23:27 AM EST


Display:
Go to: [ European Tribune Homepage : Top of page : Top of comments ]