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LQD - Sharia Law and Human Rights

by In Wales Mon Feb 25th, 2008 at 10:37:00 AM EST

Taken from a press release from the Equality and Human Rights Commission in response to the Archbishop of Canterbury's views on Sharia Law for the UK.

Trevor Phillips, Chairman of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, on the Archbishop of Canterbury’s comments on Sharia Law:

“The Archbishop’s thinking here is muddled and unhelpful. As far as I am aware no serious body of Muslim opinion supports the idea of special treatment, or exemption from the law of the land based on some vague 'conscientious objection'. Raising this idea in this way will give fuel to anti-Muslim extremism and dismay everyone who is working towards a more integrated society.


Guardian online from 7th February:

The Archbishop of Canterbury tonight prompted criticism from across the political spectrum after he backed the introduction of sharia law in Britain and argued that adopting some of its aspects seemed "unavoidable".

Rowan Williams, the most senior figure in the Church of England, said that giving Islamic law official status in the UK would help achieve social cohesion because some Muslims did not relate to the British legal system.

However, the prime minister's spokesman swiftly rejected the archbishop's comments, which were delivered in a lecture on civil and religious law at the Royal Courts of Justice.

Gordon Brown's spokesman insisted British law would be based on British values and that sharia law would present no justification for acting against national law.

And back to Trevor Philips

“It is perfectly legitimate for the Archbishop to want a sober debate about the extent to which people of faith - be they Muslim, Jewish or Christian - have their special practices recognised by the law. It is also right that our law should become more inclusive and recognise the diversity of modern Britain - allowing banks to offer Sharia compliant financial products for example.

“However, his implication that British courts should treat people differently based on their faith is divisive and dangerous.
...
“There is a fundamental principle here – when you appear before a court in Britain you appear as a citizen, equal to any other and you should be treated equally to any other. There can be no opt outs. If we abandon that principle, the first people who would suffer would be ethnic minority citizens.

This reminds me of the discussion that we had on ethnicity and the differences between an approach of community integration or multiculturalism in the UK and individual integration/Universalism or assimilation in France.
This issue raises the question of personal and community identity. I don't fully subscribe to the French approach of assimilation to the point that ethnicity no longer exists, but neither would I ever wish multiculturalism to go to such an extreme as to bring in Sharia law.

The Archbishop's comments have certainly fuelled plenty of debate, but is it adding to the already plentiful knee-jerk reactions against Muslims? Would we expect to be tried under UK law if we travelled or settled abroad?

And why is an Archbishop telling us we should bring in new laws for muslims? I don't see the logic.

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The issue is a little out of date but still ongoing and will probably continue to hit the headlines.  

I do wonder though what these "British values" are that Gordon Brown refers to.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Feb 25th, 2008 at 10:48:35 AM EST
From what I understood about the debate, the only sharia part that has any reason to be implemented is sharia-based divorce arbitration, where both partners can choose to follow the decision of an arbiter instead of going to court. This makes some sense, since religious people, not just muslims, tend to see the religious part of their marriage as more important than the purely legal status.

Apparently, this already exists in the UK for many years. So the archbishop is calling for something that basically already exists, while his opponents are shouting murder over something that works fine in practice.

by GreatZamfir on Mon Feb 25th, 2008 at 11:29:49 AM EST
The Guardian article points out that some aspects of Sharia law are already in practice, as you point out - there's no need to go calling for it if it has already been worked into UK law/practice.  

One of the issue around this debate is that it has been completely distorted - as anything around Islam does.  The response from the Equality and Human Rights Commission talks more widely about the implications of Sharia Law - for example where custody of children in divorce cases is concerned.  

That aside, should there be a clearly visible separate system (whether or not some aspects already exist in practice)?  Do we really want to go so far as to create very clear and separate Sharia law where actually in many cases it is reasonable to adjust UK law and practice so that it becomes able to accommodate some of the needs/requirements of muslims without making a big fuss and a special case about it?  

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Feb 25th, 2008 at 11:46:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I would say no. There is no need to officially recognise such separate systems.

The examples that are most often brought up are cases in which all parties to the litigation agree to use some alternative form of arbitration. Of course there should be no prohibition against settling matters out of court, so long as all litigants agree on the manner in which it is settled. In fact, there seem to be a lot of reasons to prefer out-of-court settlements in most cases.

But I fail to see why the state should give special recognition to a subset of such arbitrators. Why Imams and Bishops but not my mother-in-law? After all, if an Imam or a Bishop or my mother-in-law helps me and my brother settle a case to everyone's satisfaction, I don't see the need to involve the government at all. The entire point of the civil court system is to arbitrate in cases where the parties cannot agree on which rules to use. I am reminded of a saying attributed to an anonymous judge: "In court you don't get justice. You get the law of the land." While that may be a bit blunt, and more than a bit wrong, it's also more than a bit right.

And if the purpose of integrating such arbitrations into the legal code is to provide enforcement for out-of-court settlements, it seems to me that a simple contract should suffice. Surely there must be solicitors who will be willing to help people write such contracts? I would even argue that the cost of said solicitors should be fully or partially covered by the state if the contract covers a case that would otherwise have gone to court. Courts, after all, are not particularly cheap to run either.

So, if including explicitly named Sharia arbitrators in the official court system would not change much of anything on the ground, what is the point of including them?

Is it to paint some picture of inclusiveness towards Muslims? If so, I think that there are better ways of doing it. Particularly because painting Sharia law as a nod to Muslims would simultaneously paint Muslims as supporters of Sharia. And I happen to know that rather a lot of Muslims do not want Sharia to be the law of the land. In point of fact, quite a few of the Iranian refugees in Europe fled here precisely because they didn't much care for Sharia, and I would be very much surprised if you didn't find a perceptible percentage of Muslims among them...

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Feb 25th, 2008 at 06:30:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As far I understood, sharia arbitrators are not really treated different form other arbitrators, religious or not,a s it should be of course.
by GreatZamfir on Tue Feb 26th, 2008 at 04:02:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Mona Eltahawy has a good take on this.
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Mon Feb 25th, 2008 at 12:27:12 PM EST
He probably thinks his "tolerance" for Shariah is progressive in light of the Islamophobia that mars parts of Europe today. But it is a tolerance that condones only the most conservative options for Muslims. It is at best a form of the racism of lower expectations - the cheapest bargaining chip of liberal guilt..............

We must resist selling out women's rights and pandering to fundamentalist religionists

Exactly.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Feb 25th, 2008 at 01:26:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
See my general comment on the article.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Thu Feb 28th, 2008 at 08:17:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Very powerful article.

It reminded me of the Iranian author Azar Nafisi:

"I very much resent it when people - maybe with good intentions or from a progressive point of view - keep telling me, 'It's their culture' ... It's like saying the culture of Massachusetts is burning witches."

One of the things I will never understand is why some progressives seem more willing to tolerate religious extremists when their religion is oppressed or discriminated against. It does not help their non-crazy co-religionists - quite the opposite, in fact. And I really see no reason to help the fundagelical crazies, no matter which religion they are from.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Feb 25th, 2008 at 06:39:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"Very powerful article" - but not accurate about what Williams actually said; see my general comment.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Thu Feb 28th, 2008 at 08:19:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

But the problem with the article is that, like so many people, she does not seem to have read what the archbishop said in his lecture, but instead media reports of it. While I'm generally against religion, it is important when criticising a text to deal with what was actually written (as in the case of Dawkins' book). Thus, far from supporting the most conservative elements in Islam, he is clearly opposed to what he refers to "Islamic primitivists" and discusses the problems they can create, e.g. for women.  

She asks, sarcastically:

"When the archbishop so generously extended Muslims the right to use Shariah, I wonder whose version of Shariah he meant? The Angel Gabriel did not reveal Shariah to the Prophet Mohammed. Much Islamic law was codified many centuries after the prophet died, by male jurists who came up with laws that met the needs of their time. There are various Sunni and Shiite Muslim schools of thought, but there is no consensus on one version of Shariah."

But, had she read the lecture, she'd know that he was well aware of this:

...while certain elements of the sharia are specified fairly exactly in the Qur'an and Sunna and in the hadith recognised as authoritative in this respect, there is no single code that can be identified as 'the' sharia.  And when certain states impose what they refer to as sharia or when certain Muslim activists demand its recognition alongside secular jurisdictions, they are usually referring not to a universal and fixed code established once for all but to some particular concretisation of it at the hands of a tradition of jurists.
...
To recognise sharia is to recognise a method of jurisprudence governed by revealed texts rather than a single system.  

http://www.archbishopofcanterbury.org/1575

Similarly, despite her suggestion that he is "naive" about the problems women might face, he is clearly very aware of this:

The second issue, a very serious one, is that recognition of 'supplementary jurisdiction' in some areas, especially family law, could have the effect of reinforcing in minority communities some of the most repressive or retrograde elements in them, with particularly serious consequences for the role and liberties of women.
...

Recognising a supplementary jurisdiction cannot mean recognising a liberty to exert a sort of local monopoly in some areas.  The Jewish legal theorist Ayelet Shachar, in a highly original and significant monograph on Multicultural Jurisdictions: Cultural Differences and Women's Rights (2001), explores the risks of any model that ends up 'franchising' a non-state jurisdiction so as to reinforce its most problematic features and further disadvantage its weakest members: 'we must be alert', she writes, 'to the potentially injurious effects of well-meaning external protections upon different categories of group members here - effects which may unwittingly exacerbate preexisting internal power hierarchies' (113).  She argues that if we are serious in trying to move away from a model that treats one jurisdiction as having a monopoly of socially defining roles and relations, we do not solve any problems by a purely uncritical endorsement of a communal legal structure which can only be avoided by deciding to leave the community altogether.  We need, according to Shachar, to 'work to overcome the ultimatum of "either your culture or your rights"' (114).

http://www.archbishopofcanterbury.org/1575

This is not to say that I agree with everything he says, just to show that it is far more complex and considered than most media commentary suggests, including her article.

For a good article on the lecture and the criticism of it see:

http://www.opendemocracy.net/article/faith_ideas/europe_islam/sharia_law_uk

Nowhere in the lecture does Williams call for the implementation of sharia law - though this has become the default assumption underlying the febrile controversy the talk and its accompanying media coverage almost instantly generated. Rather, he asks how it might be possible for the civil law to accommodate some of the legal procedures by which Muslim communities in Britain have traditionally regulated their relationships and financial affairs, while safeguarding the equality and human rights afforded by modern law for vulnerable individuals (particularly women) within those communities.

...
In its conservative versions, Islam does pose a challenge to modern western values, particularly with regard to its treatment of women and its resistance to the idea of religious freedom. Yet the archbishop makes very clear that he rejects any change in the law which would deprive individuals of the rights they are entitled to as modern British citizens; and nowhere does he offer encouragement or affirmation to what he refers to as "Islamic primitivists".



Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Thu Feb 28th, 2008 at 08:17:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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