Just a bit of clarification:

1) Poppy IS profitable for the Taleban/warlords all the way, i.e., after converting them into illegal drugs, money is used to finance Taleban/Al Qaeda terrorist wars. But it is acknowledged that it is NOT profitable to your ordinary Afghan farming family.

2) Intervention in Iraq: military point of view, there was an invasion plan, one that involved attacking and dismantling Iraq, punitive actions on the people of Iraq, causing havoc on the nerve centers of the Iraqi institutions, etc. but nothing by way of post invasion or post warring and that's the reason the unholy alliance led by Bush and Blair failed and still failing miserably today. Frankly, when all is said and done, Genghis Khan would have done a better job of planning.

3) Re "involving Afghan warlords": From the outset, I think there was no question that warlords were not going to be involved. They were going to be involved! We must face it -- Afghanistan, is mostly about Taleban and warlords; that's Afghan culture -- the UN had to and must deal with warlords to make headway, get them on side, away from violent extremist Taleban-Al Qaeda factions. Did you know that Northern Alliance, the alliance that the West initially backed against Russian occupation was an alliance of warlords? What the UN basically is trying to do today is to dismantle the Taleban-warlord apparatus in Afghanistan Difficult, long journey for all.

3) Re: "then suddenly the yanks got cold feet about actually sending troops in who might, horror of horrors, actually get shot and die;"

If you actually look closely, the Yanks didn't get "cold feet", they just got so distracted when they decided to commit the bulk of their troops to another war, i.e., Iraq. That was of course the decision of US commander in chief Bush.

4) Re: "... so the warlords were back in the game. Course we bombed the shit out of he country, ruining thousandos of years old irrigation system, wrecking the agriculture across swathes of the country."

Realistically, not UN-ISAF that ruinined thousands of years old irrigation system, etc. but that started to happen way back during the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. 5) Re: "But we blunder in, Great Game Colonials all and stick our big dicks in someone else's pool and well, ooh look, it's got piss in it."

True, we were in 3 wars that involved Britain and Afghanistan but the Great Game Colonials that you speak of was about the balance of power in the Caucuses region that pitted British v Russian empires.

6) Today there are 37 nations involved in the UN-mandated ISAF operations all over the world. (NATO has 26 member nations only). It's not about building or shoring up empires this time of the 18th/19th century types but about saving a failed state. We may not like the way the US, one of the major member os NATO, approached military operations in Afghanistan through their Enduring Freedom Operations (not under NATO-ISAF operations) but on the whole, ISAF troops involved in the country are doing what they've been mandated to do, security operations and in aid of nation building.

Bluntly put, UN backed ISAF operations in Afghanistan, from military and political viewpoints, are not similar to those being carried on by US in Iraq. The US-UK invasion of and war on Iraq was based on lies, manufactured evidence, fabricated intel, etc., To me, there was no rhyme or reason to the invasion of and war on Iraq and on the Iraqis.

Realistically, if we leave Afghanistan because we believe that it is fundamentally a "failed state", there is no guarantee that we will not find ourselves with the kind of Darfour debacle in our hands once again. Pakistan had borne the brunt of the Russian wars there that produced more Talebans, more extremists, more violence, etc. In the long run, the only way out of that kind of total and utter fiasco is to try to bring progress to the ordinary people of Afghanistan, education, health services, infrastructure, etc.

Of course, there is a way out of Afghanistan (and leave the Afghans to their fate)..., if people truly think that their respective nations should not be involved in ISAF in Afghanistan, I guess one thing that may be done is to petition their respective governments to withdraw their support for the UN backing there. But is that the judicious thing to do?

From what I hear, the ordinary Afghan farmer has no choice. Warlords control the Afghan farmers -- they are forced to plant poppy and are expected to mee a quota.

The current Afghan govt should step up the policing of its own ranks because it seems that there's widespread collusion between some authorities and warlords over poppy culture. Like many, I would like to know what is being done from the end of NATO-ISAF, foreign NGO to get rid of this. I believe NATO's top bosses owe it to the citizens of NATO member nations an explanation.

Unfotunately, the West or at least Western European nations, have to abide by certain democratic procedures even in terms of military operations -- thus "send(ing) across a couple of Bombardiers to spray them to death?" may not be acceptable given the great probability of wiping out every living being within the perimeter.

This is where the govt in place should cooperate to the fullest. NATO must be bold and demand of the Afghan govt their full cooperation.

Sometimes I wonder if the opium cartel is not more powerful in military terms than the all of the western military combined!

Aotearoa IMC: Mexico,CIA,Guantanamo Rendition Plane, Cocaine, Homeland 'Security'

n April,2006 it was revealed that a plane owned by Skyway Communications of Lakeland,Florida and Royal Sons holding company using Huffman Aviation(where Mohamed Atta trained before 9/11),as its address and paradoxically rented by the Howard Dean's Democrat presidential campaign of 2004 had been busted by the Mexican army at the Ciudad Del Carmen,Campeche airport on the Yucatan Peninsula with over 5.5 tons of cocaine on board.
Now yet another plane,(a Gulfstream II),that crashed in the Yucatan on Sept 24th this year with 4 tons of cocaine on board has connections to the Skyway Communications DC-9,(confiscated by the Mexican army and now used by the Mexican Attorney General's office),as well as to Guantanamo 'rendition' flights that may have taken place from or through Europe.Skyway Communications,a penny stock 'pump and dump' is,according to Daniel Hopsicker of madcowprod and SEC filings,connected to Titan Corporation(torturors at Abu Ghraibe,etc.)