Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.

Early Open Thread

by Jerome a Paris Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 12:50:17 PM EST

What's going on in your world?


Display:
ATinNM, you going to be around tonight?  We may have another boutique state on our hands.  Lots of rich, Prius-driving, latte-drinking, NYT-reading blacks in Mississippi, I hear.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 01:03:21 PM EST
Lissen up, bubba, ya hear.  yuh g'wine batmouth da peeples, i'm gonna see ya down the crossroads.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Ana´s Nin
by Crazy Horse on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 02:15:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No.  you're mixing southern black and Appalachian white, not Mississippian.  Mississippians are fixin' ta go to the polls and give all y'all a real nice showin'.  Yessah, gonna be a right fine night.  Massa Clinton ain't go' be none too proud, though.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 02:22:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ain't nothin' to worry about, though.  Them ol' Mississippi Democrats is jussa buncha no-good polecats.

You see?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 02:25:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Massa Clinton is the lady in the couple? Or Bill?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 02:28:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's Bill.  Hillary would be Miss Hill'ry.  Gotta address the man of the house first in Mississippi.  Very early-1900s.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 02:30:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Massa" would obviously be Southernspeak for "Master," hence it's Bill.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 02:32:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's what I thought. Childhood reading. Unca' Tom's Cabin. (No, not Mississippi.) Tom Sawyer/Huck Finn? (Honky childhood reading...)
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 02:39:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hey, afew, don't you go getting all Samuel Clemens on us.

Unless

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Ana´s Nin

by Crazy Horse on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 02:56:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"The Awful German Language" by Mark Twain
slipshod and systemless

Perhaps I should read all of it and find he's joking.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 03:00:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Twain (IIRC) also wrote a piece where he lamented the French translation of one of his stories, which he then proceeded to translate back into English word-for-word, with humorous results...

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (m<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 03:04:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Gretchen.
    Wilhelm, where is the turnip?
Wilhelm.
    She has gone to the kitchen.
Gretchen.
    Where is the accomplished and beautiful English maiden?
Wilhelm.
    It has gone to the opera."

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Ana´s Nin
by Crazy Horse on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 03:28:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah, "Unca'" is another good one.

Should be a fun night in Mississippi.  We'll see who wins between "B'rack O-BAM-uh" and "Hill'ry Clint'n".

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 03:02:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well then, Sir, I believe I'm going to mogitate myself onwards, down to the flanks of the river, where I do believe there's a festival of tap dancing with some truly great feats, uhhh, feets.  Damn, these intertuves are certainly hard on the inflection component.  Miss Maude, would you please pour me another of those dialecticious mint juleps?

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Ana´s Nin
by Crazy Horse on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 02:30:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There were some examples of Mississippi speech in the paper this morning, can't be bothered looking to see which, where they used the word "y'offglide". But they didn't explain, we were supposed to guess.

What on earth does that mean ?

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 02:31:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think it refers to the way Southerners pronounce their i's, as when Edwards says "Ah will fahght for you" ("I will fight for you").  Not sure, though.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 02:35:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
...adding the obvious: I don't think "y'offglide" is an actual term we use but rather an explanation of pronunciation.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 02:40:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's what it's about, though the y-offglide is absent in Southern accents. ("Mah" instead of "ma-y" for "my" - the vowel is similar, but in one pronunciation it glides into a terminal "y", in the other it remains open: "mah").
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 02:53:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yep, there ya go.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 03:03:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Explained here, y'all.

http://www.pbs.org/speak/seatosea/americanvarieties/southern/

Karen in Austin

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher

by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 05:51:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ahhhh, thank you.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 06:01:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Now all y'all -- "all y'all" is the plural form of "y'all," by the way -- get it.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 07:18:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]


The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill
by r------ on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 03:41:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]


In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 05:46:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm here.

(Be afraid.  Be very afraid.)

Hi Jen!!!!!

(On the chance the 'Snooze-button' is off.  Unlike the last time.  :-)

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 07:28:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Heh.

Hi AT!!!!!!!!!!!

Excellent, so what's your call tonight?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 07:32:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Polls close at 8PM East Coast time.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 07:34:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Special Election in Indiana's 7th District tonight as well.  Currently 17 of 445 precincts reporting:

Jon Elrod(R) 52%
Andre Carson(D) 45%
Sean Shephard(L) 3%

Presumably the "(L)" for Shephard mean Libertarian.  Could be stripping Elrod's votes away.  Fingers crossed.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 07:37:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Carson now on top!  Woohoo!

Carson 50%
Elrod 47%

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 07:50:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Know of any polling?

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 07:55:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, but it had been held by a Dem previously.  It's essentially the Indianapolis metro area.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 07:57:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Aw, shoot.... brain fart.

This is Judy Carson's grandson running to replace her.

Carson is going to win this one.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 07:59:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Too early to call, according to Olbermann, but Obama leads.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 08:02:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Polls close at 8 EST -- IIRC, so we should get some results pretty soon.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 08:03:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That should be attached to the Mississippi primary discussion not the Indiana election.


She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 08:04:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Obama's going to win this by a pretty wide margin (no surprise).  Our prediction was pretty dead-on per the exit polls.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 08:07:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
20% reporting and 51/46 Carson/Elrod.

I assume the solid Carson precincts, from the metro area, will report last ... they always do so this looks like a yawner.

But ya never know.


She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 08:18:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Probably so.  ManfromMiddletown would have a good idea of it.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 08:21:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I haven't had the time to do any research 'On the Ground,' as it were for either election, so take with much salt:

Mississippi:  60/40 Obama/Clinton with the vote being split along color lines.

Indiana:  I have no idea

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 07:48:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That sounds about right on Obama/Clinton.  The electability question in exit polling seems to support roughly that outcome:

Most Electable (per Tweety):
Obama 62%
Clinton 38%

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 07:52:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well pone my corn and hush my puppies.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 07:32:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Wow, huge racial split:

White Men
Clinton 69%
Obama 30%

White Women
Clinton 74%
Obama 26%

Black Men
Obama 93%
Clinton 7%

Black Women
Obama 89%
Clinton 11%

Give or take a few points, it should, indeed, come in at about Obama 60%-40% Clinton.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 08:06:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What do you expect?  It's Mississippi.

Tho' Obama is doing better among White men and women than Clinton among Black men and women.  

Spin Prediction:  any southern state whose name ends in a vowel doesn't count.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 08:10:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Part of the reason is because 11% of voters were white Republicans, and they split 85-15% for Clinton (surprise, surprise).  Obama actually did quite respectably among white Indies and liberals.

I expected the dramatic racial split in Mississippi.  I still don't quite grok why it was just as dramatic in South Carolina while whites roughly split between the two in Georgia.  Georgia has the young white professionals in ATL, Macon, Augusta and Savannah, but SC has the same in Charleston and the other good-sized cities.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 08:16:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was in the south, as a young lad, during the last years of Jim Crow.

You do NOT want to know my opinion regarding white Republicans in Mississippi.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 08:23:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Most of my family is from a very little, very white, and ridiculously racist town in northern Georgia called Ila.  I assure you I know what you mean.  Add to that they're 60 miles NE from the country's emerging Black Mecca, and your imagination is all you need.

And, needless to say, we don't communicate much with them.  Jim Crow never packed it in in Ila, Ga.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 08:26:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Plus, I went to Florida State, my liberal oasis within spitting distance of South Georgia and Alabama.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 08:28:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
With 0% of precincts reporting and the vote split 0/0 McCain/Huckabee CNN has called Mississippi for McCain.

LOL

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 08:14:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Feel the Huckaboom!

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 08:17:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Huckabust is more like it.


She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 08:27:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nonsene!  McCain is in his last throes!

And remember: He didn't major in math.  He majored in miracles.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 08:29:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
CNN has the following voter break-out:

DEM:

42% Male
58% Female

17-29 13%
30-44 25%
45-59 32% (!)
60+  29%

GOP:

53% Male (expected)
47% Female

17-29 10%
30-44 19%
45-59 26%
60+ 45%  (expected)

The age/percentage demographics don't bode well for the future of the GOP in Mississippi.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 08:48:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So the plurality of Dems were late-Boomers and Generation X.  Not terribly surprising.  I guess our plan should be to simply outlive the GOP there.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 08:52:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Mass murder is generally considered immoral and is certainly illegal, so I guess we gotta.  ;-)

Not too happy with the 17-29 demographic as it is only DEM+3 but I'll take the rest.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 08:56:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, but the universities were on Spring Break.  It probably would've been closer to 20% otherwise.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 08:57:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
MSNBC calls for Obama.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 08:19:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So does CNN


She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 08:29:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah, the terrorists must be dancing in the streets. /snark

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 08:33:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This is going to get boring.

Carson is leading 52/45 and Obama's won Mississippi.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 08:38:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
They've already moved on.  Clinton is getting ripped on Olbermann nonstop over the Ferraro comment.  Allegedly the same on CNN.  Superdelegates are apparently furious, and she was already, I'd guess, inches from pushing Pelosi over the edge.

She really needs to back down from that.  Like, yesterday.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 08:42:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Clinton has run the worst campaign in modern memory.    She has ploughed a 20% national lead into the ground.

Any book focusing on her in the 2008 Dem nominating process needs to be called The Worst and the Stupidest.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 08:51:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That was Jonathon Alter's take: The worst campaign in modern American history.  Really, if the roles were reversed, Obama would be gone, but the Clintons make for such a juicy story that the press won't let them die.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 08:54:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This is the Clinton/DLC last hurrah ... so I understand why she is hanging in.  But God help the Dems if she gets the nomination 'cuz she'll screw-up the Presidential election campaign in the same, and new & interesting, ways.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 09:03:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
She can't take the nomination without civil war in the party, at this point.  Blacks have bailed on her, not only in the primaries, but a larger and larger share are now undecided in general election polls.  Young people would walk.  Losing those two groups makes November unwinnable.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 09:05:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Unless she wins the nomination she's done as a national politician.  Too many attacks on too many people.  

I agree, if she wins the nomination she loses in November and is done as a national politician.

So, either way, she's done.

I don't know if the Clinton/DLC faction has realized that yet.  I suspect not, given how clueless they've been in the nominating campaign.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 09:11:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, either they don't realize it, or they're trying to wreck his chances in November.  I know it's very tinfoil-hat of me, but I wouldn't put it past them.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 09:16:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Clintons are vindictive enough and they have the spinmeisters to put the message out there.  But, really, who gives a damn what James Carville says?

The PLEOs aren't about to go down with the Good Ship Clinton and if Obama comes to Denver with the majority of delegates then he will get the nomination.  

huh

Looking over this post I see I've concluded Obama is going to get the nod.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 09:22:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Short of a career-ending mistake, he's going to walk into Denver with the most delegates.

I still think she's going to pay with the superdelegates for the Ferraro comment if Ferraro doesn't back off.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 09:24:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What's interesting is Clinton has to go to Ferraro for find a surrogate.  I mean ... jeez ... talk about Who Cares?

The only thing I can think of is Clinton is trying to incerase her take of the 40+ woman vote.  

(Dinner time, back in a bit.)


She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 09:33:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nah - the Lady Macbeth thing is just too fun to watch.

I hope she continues. Trying to guess how far she'll go before the wheels fall off - it's like a soap opera, only interesting.

Well. Kind of interesting in a Liveleak kind of a way. ('Ooh - train wreck...')

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 08:58:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Olbermann is doing one of his Special Comments tomorrow on the Clinton Campaign.

Now I'm really tempted to say it's over.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 09:01:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not over till the dumb lady quits.

Or something.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 09:05:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, but that's likely to be a pretty big blow given Olbermann's status among liberals.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 09:09:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My pipe-dream is she continues to Denver, using all her chips to get there, and then lose.  

I really want the Clintons to just.  go.  away.  

(And with their little Chelsea too.)


She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 09:16:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
LOL

I was all for the "Hands-off Chelsea!" line until that nasty outburst she had at a student in Wisconsin.  "Clairvoyance" and all that, you know.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 09:19:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Love the Lady Macbeth description, by the way.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 09:03:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Insanely busy packing and selling my house.

Have a (rare for this time of year) slow patch at work though...wish I could go home and work there...

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 01:09:21 PM EST
I assume the house is getting bids then, or have you not put it on the market yet?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 01:20:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Almost done staging it. On the market last weekend of March, things don't tend to move well here until then due to the weather.

A lot of work, gutted a bathroom, repaint and touch up, 100 boxes packed and in storage.

Ugh.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 01:25:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Say it with me: The Struggle is the Glory.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 01:26:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Helicopter Ben is back at work. My market shorting funds fell through the floor after a few weeks of solid gains. I suspect this will go on throughout the year, particularly since we're in an election year.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 01:22:30 PM EST
HeliBen needs to be named TIME's Person of the Year, and I want this picture on the cover.

$200bn more pumped in.  Jesus Christ.  I hear Jim Cramer used the words "run on the banks" today, too.  You know, when people say my generation is a lot like my grandparents, I tend to take it as a compliment.  This isn't what I had in mind.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 01:25:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think I'm going to shift some $$ back to my BoA accounts. They have pretty bad exposure to this mess, but are too large to be allowed to go under. The other bank my accounts are at...I doubt will survive, to be honest.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 01:35:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That was my thinking, too.  My cash is in BofA and Wachovia.  I'm really hoping this buyout of Countrywide doesn't go through, though.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 01:41:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You mean you guys have more than the $100K FDIC limit in your accounts?  Shouldn't you be investing in ET?

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Ana´s Nin
by Crazy Horse on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 02:03:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not even close, but just enough of my grandfather's Depression-era attitude rubbed off on me to not trust the FDIC or any other federal program.  Especially not when this goofball country is controlled by voters who believe they can have massive tax cuts and Social Security.

If you're banking on any of these, and are fairly young, I submit that you might as well be in Vegas.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 02:10:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Modern/Contemporary Art is the place to invest and where all money flows to in unreliable times. Market prices have doubled in the last 18 months!

For people with more money than sense, art beats stocks and property. And, unlike getting a new car, they are happy if they have to pay more. There's nothing like putting your futures up on a wall ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 02:12:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
For me it's keeping myself liquid before the check comes. I've seen reassuring articles recently that state "generally another bank will pick up the accounts and nothing will change." Sounds like finance industry PR to me, although I'm not privy to any examples either way.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 02:29:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
helicopter Ben would probably be raising interest rates.

As soon as President McCain is sworn in, I suspect monetary policy will change...

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 01:26:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Doubtful.  Helicopter Ben's suffers from a pretty severe case of deflationphobia.  He's clearly pretty spooked.I'll bet we're back to a 1% federal funds rate before the year's out.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 01:43:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't think Helicopter Ben is going to make it to the end of his term. Just a guess.

Recall US interest rates in 2000 when Gore was more or less in a Democratic re-election dynamic and the first of Greenspan's bubbles was deflating. Unlike now, they were ratcheting up interest rates.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 01:57:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe.

But in an unusual move, AAA-rated mortgage securities issued by banks will also be accepted. Many investors have shied away from these mortgage-backed securities because they fear defaults in the underlying assets will erode the value.

The effort, which is being done in conjunction with other central banks in Canada and Europe, is designed to promote trading in these markets that have frozen up, experts said. The measure allows banks to temporarily get these illiquid securities off their books.

"They are providing liquidity to keep the deterioration of that market from bringing down the broader economy," said Ian Lyngen, interest rate strategist with RBS Greenwich Capital.

non-economist guess here: presumably they will transfer as much of this illiquid shit to the public as they can before the election, then raise interest rates after the election to save the dollar, and thus lock in the market "winnings" over the past few decades for the wealthy. Goodbye roads, schools, and firefighters. It will have to get that bad to get the public angry enough to demand their share back, though.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 01:47:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Bingo.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill
by r------ on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 01:53:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
attempt to balance the US budget, maybe gutting Social Security when the shock of the interest rate rise ripples through the middle-class and working-class segments of the economy and the state and local fiscal situations cause serious crises providing enough shock for justification of austerity measures.

The good news for me is that the dollar isn't likely to stay at $1.55 USD/EUR, so I won't be converting my cash quite yet.

Hell, maybe I'd better vote McCain.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 01:55:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'll probably bail on my Euro fund around election time.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 01:57:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Privatize the profits, socialize the costs."  Going to be a lot of that going around for the next couple years.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 01:56:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My oil shares have been doing fine, flat all through the credit crisis. Too bad the dollar has weakened 10 % against the krona since I bought them.

I guess I should work like hell on the side this spring to save some money and go on vacation to the US. I will be as rich as a king with all my hard currency! And the gasoline is almost free over there. Maybe a coast-to-coast road trip? ;D

And I've just figured out I can buy government bonds straight from the Swedish state online (no fees at all, wooo!) with a duration of 2 months to 25 years. There are inflation protected ones too. The intertubes is just great.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 02:51:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd like to do a NY to LA road trip. Minus one vacation as a kid and a road trip to Seattle last November I've hardly driven through the west at all.

I bailed on USO due to the contango issue that causes it to under perform vs. the spot price. If/when we get into a nasty recession and it drops back down to $70/80 a barrel I might pick it up again.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 02:58:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
USO? That's the one that follows the price of oil?

I made my own little big oil "index fund" by including pretty much equal amounts of Exxon, Chevron, Total, Conoco and Shell. Well, a little extra of Exxon. And none of the British "we can't even spell maintenance" Petroleum idiocy.

Haven't got enough money to include lots of smaller companies like Andarko and Talisman, even if those probably have a brighter future than the supermajors.

With the giant size of the companies and the inherent diversification of integrated big oil, the company risk goes away a bit.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 03:10:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Current property top tips for investment are Dubai, Norway and Mongolia (huge copper finds).

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 03:01:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Norway? You better talk to Solveig - she's been keeping a very close eye on property there with/for her daughter in Oslo and it's frozen up bad enough for estate agents to be going bust already.

Dunno enough about Dubai, but Mongolia sounds good if I can find it on the map... ;-)

Btw one of the better meals I've had was in a Mongolian barbecue restaurant in Bergen.

Yummm. But not recommended for vegetarians...

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 03:48:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Always liked the Mongolian Wok bar in Oxford myself. (and they did good vedgie food).

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 03:53:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's long term investment. Dubai and Norway is based on the economies staying firm cos of oil and gas. Mongolia cos of mineral resource. Canada got a mention in dispatches as well, but was downgraded cos the oil-shale technologies are problematic.

For short term stuff, other economies are looking better. Romania is  bit of a star at the moment. The break in the political log-jam in Cyrpus has brought a rash of N Cypriot property onto the market.

I also sensed a lot of confidence from Turkish sellers as well. Last year everything was being sold on EU membership, but I think they've realised they've got a good product whatever (and they do on the south coast but Bodrum is massively oversold). EU membership is just a bonus.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 04:02:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I follow the logic, but I think Dubai's oil is running out which is why they have made such a big play on property.

I think as energy costs rise, the sheer unsustainability of Dubai's rash of building is going to be a problem. Most of it isn't built to last and it really is AirCon Central....water isn't going to get any cheaper either.

I'm a fan of Northern Cyprus too, but the title situation is still problematic on much of it.

Wherever you can get mortgages you'll see property prices going up, of course.

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 06:01:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sorry, I checked my source, it's not Dubai they rated, it's Kuwait

Most of the N Cypriot stuff was new build on virgin land where compnsation costs would be marginal compared to the value of the property.

Still no old property coming up, but the idea is that, although title is a problem, there will be a rational solution to it cos they can't allow it to cause problems down-line.

.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 06:17:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
one workers' and artists' paradise coming up.

paul spencer
by paul spencer (spencerinthegorge AT yahoo DOT com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 07:39:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Genghis Khan returns!
by das monde on Wed Mar 12th, 2008 at 02:40:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Apparently ET has become a "church."  Guess this means it's quits for me...

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 01:45:06 PM EST
That's just a big building with colored windows.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 01:51:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Am I missing something?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 01:55:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 01:56:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Okay.  Sounds like a very silly thing to fight over, honestly, but that's just my opinion.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 02:07:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, it's not, it's just mine too.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 02:24:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That, and 'belief' which was also contentious. More than a bit off-thread, to boot.

paul spencer
by paul spencer (spencerinthegorge AT yahoo DOT com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 07:41:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Personally I like to think of ET as a veritable bible of European progressive thought...

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (m<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 01:53:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Personally I am not kidding and the whole thing makes me physically ill.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 01:54:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I apologise.

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (m<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 01:56:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No need.  Wasn't offended by you...

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 06:17:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Could you see Sven's use of the word church in the secular sense?  Ya know, Church of Jimi Hendrix in the lower Haight?  The simple word church has vernacular meanings as well, signifying a social body that has nothing to dio (freudian slip) with  god or dog or bukowski.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Ana´s Nin
by Crazy Horse on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 02:12:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yea, I think Sven was using it in the "community" sense. The Labour Party is a "broad church", that sort of thing. It may be another of them pesky English vs american thingies.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 02:28:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't think so.  I didn't need Sven's explanation to get it, but maybe it's a regional thing in America, too.  I know that Brits often use similar language to Southerners.  "Reckon" is a good example.  People in other regions make fun of us for using that, but you use it quite often.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 02:38:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Heh, I use "reckon" frequently (and I'm Finnish). I reckon it is because I like the way it sounds.

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (m<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 02:42:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Its reckin, as in:  "I reckin we oughta go on recon, as them terroirists put the wreckon our new embassy."

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Ana´s Nin
by Crazy Horse on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 03:01:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
as them terroirists

"...them there terroirists...."

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 03:07:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Entschuldigung.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Ana´s Nin
by Crazy Horse on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 03:32:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What, doesn't no one catch my cool (self-satisfied) wordplay reference to French wine growers?  You don't say "them there" when you're speaking about French wine growers.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Ana´s Nin
by Crazy Horse on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 03:34:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I caught it the other day.  Because I went to public schools in Florida, I had to look it up. ;)

If you're doing it in a southern accent, you say "them there," though.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 04:11:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
it's "them thar".

paul spencer
by paul spencer (spencerinthegorge AT yahoo DOT com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 07:45:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Pretty much equals "big tent", I think.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 02:57:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Absolutely. I had no religious connotations in my mind at all. Though I do think we share some beliefs, or at least argue about them. Religion and beliefs are not the same in my book.

It was probably not the best choice of phrase, but in a community with a high level of atheism, I didn't expect miscontruction. My apologies to poemless.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 05:14:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Besides which, I just don't think ET is the place to be exercising censorship, especially down to the right of someone to use the word "church" in a perfectly legitimate context, especially when efforts have been made to explain said context and apologize.

Karen in Austin

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher

by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 06:06:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No one is being censored.  I'm just saying ET is not a church.  Not one I belong to - because I belong to no church.  I am also a little peeved not just by the choice of words, but the assumption that we share a set of beliefs. Because, for me, ET is not about beliefs.  It's just not, and if it is for others, that's super, but it does go to illustrate that I do not share some of these belief, primarily, the belief that ET is a CHURCH.  

I specifically like ET because no one has to share any beliefs.  

They just have to be respectful and be a half-way decent debater.  But the issues rest on facts, problems and solutions, not beliefs.

I've asked for no apologies, expect none, and don't understand why they were made, though I'll graciously accept the sentiment.

But I don't belong to churchs - secular or not.  Period.  And for someone to insist that, no, actually, I do, is a bit curious to me.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 06:16:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I felt you were attempting to censor by bringing the subject up several times, on two separate threads, and threatening to leave the non-church of ET as a result (I'm gonna take my ball and go home.)

Your insistence that the word church can have no other meaning than a non-secular one, even after others have given examples that indicate otherwise, seems a bit rigid.  I'm an atheist and haven't been in a church except for weddings since I was 17, and took no offense.  

If the secular meaning is "group" - which could also be read as "blog group" - I would argue that you DO seem to belong to one.  But no-one here is insisting that YOU use the term "church" for it, even if they did, so why are YOU insisting that we must all go with YOUR terminology or you'll become physically ill and leave the group?  That's what I call censorship, or an attempt at it, anyway. Maybe it's an unconscious wish to assess your influence with the group, maybe you were just in a sensitive and vulnerable mood, I don't know,  but you've obviously been a prized member here for quite a while, and I'm pretty well unknown so should probably hold my tongue (fat chance).  I would miss the heck out of your diaries and comments if you left; you're interesting to read, fun to argue with (usually) and well loved.

Karen in Austin

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher

by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Wed Mar 12th, 2008 at 09:56:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I felt you were attempting to censor by bringing the subject up several times

1.  How is disagreeing with someone censorship?

If the secular meaning is "group" - which could also be read as "blog group" - I would argue that you DO seem to belong to one.

2.  I explicitly said I don't even belong to secular churches.

Maybe it's an unconscious wish to assess your influence with the group

3.  Please, I am asking as politely as possible, do not psychoanalyse me.  

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Wed Mar 12th, 2008 at 10:51:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
For the record:

Sven:

ET is a fairly broad church, representing many different progressive interests.

"broad church" in this context means "a community with a wide range of views", standard english usage, as commented by TBG:

Standard issue English in this part of the world. Nothing obscure or horribly outdated about it at all.

Also, not used literally. There are quite a few idioms and metaphors in English which have a religious background. They don't imply that you're signing up to hand over your soul to the C of E - any more than saying that someone has a strong suit suggests they're going to spend the rest of their lives playing bridge.

Poemless responds:

ET is not a church.

True, but either irrelevant or not understanding the usage in current dickensian (=tied to the UK) english.  Maybe humorous?

Sven (pointing out, as TBG does, that it doesn't reference 'religion' in common usage):

'a broad church' is a common literate English expression used to 'refer to secular political organizations encompassing a broad range of opinions'. I'm surprised you do not know it.

(Maybe a bit snarky at the end, there.  Also, the reference to 'organisations' can mean that ET is some kind of organisation)

You respond:

I don't think describing ET using an obscure and horribly outdated British terminology or any terminology seated in religious context (even if it means something secular - it is a way of describing the secular through religious means) is appropriate or correct.

My note: the term is not oudated or obscure, that is "reading into" the phrase, but okay--it may be one of those phrases that doesn't travel the atlantic well.

My second note: it must be clear at this point that "a broad church" is part of current standard english usage and does not refer to religion, though it has religious roots (as do many words), but maybe you didn't know that--okay.  Still, you ramped up the tone here and you also said, "I don't think using this term is appropriate"--i.e., you are disagreeing with Sven's usage (though you misinterpreted its meaning), but okay, you don't like the use of words that have religious history--(remember that christians have usurped many words [church was not originally a chrisian word, though it was a religious word], so that's a lot of words to avoid--communion, for example)

Then you take that discussion to the open thread and edit it as follows:

Apparently ET has become a "church."  Guess this means it's quits for me...

?  The expression was "broad church" and you had already been told that it had no connection to religion, so for me as it stands your sentence is bad faith.  But maybe you posted this before Sven explained the meaning of the term?  The last sentence ramps things up further.  Now you're threatening to leave the site (!) because Sven said, let us remember the original phrase:

ET is a fairly broad church, representing many different progressive interests.

Nordic storm follows your comment up with some humour (assuming you are being humorous, I suppose):

Personally I like to think of ET as a veritable bible of European progressive thought...

And you reply:

Personally I am not kidding and the whole thing makes me physically ill.

Okay, so there's no humour.  You are deadly serious.  You are feeling physically sick...at what?  Sven had already explained that the phrase is commonly used in UK english to descibe a community (stronger term = organisation) with a wide range of interests/opinions.

Other people try to calm the situation down, then Wife of Bath mentions censorship:

Besides which, I just don't think ET is the place to be exercising censorship, especially down to the right of someone to use the word "church" in a perfectly legitimate context, especially when efforts have been made to explain said context and apologize.

So, huh, censorship?

No one is being censored.  I'm just saying ET is not a church.

That's true.  You are saying "ET is not a church."  Sven, however, had not said "ET is a church", he had said "ET is a broad church" and made it clear in his first immediate comment to your "ET is not a church" (as did others prior to this comment of yours) that "broad church" is a non-religious (except in its history) term to describe...etc...etc...

....overall, for this reader you have conflated your thoughts with Sven's common-UK-english expression to make it sound as though Sven has somewhere said words to the effect of "ET is (like) a church."

Then you add this:

I am also a little peeved not just by the choice of words, but the assumption that we share a set of beliefs.

Triple huh????

The choice of words you have misconstrued; the words themselves (let us remember them!):

ET is a fairly broad church, representing many different progressive interests.

demonstrate (mildly) the opposite of your accusation: that there is an assumption that we share a set of beliefs; because "broad church" means "a wide and varied set of beliefs"--though under the umbrella of some aggretating factor, in this case 'ET'.

....ya know, I'll get hammered for writing this but it just annoys me for some reason that things can get so bent from the starting point--

ET is a fairly broad church, representing many different progressive interests.

To finish your comment:

But I don't belong to churchs - secular or not.  Period.  And for someone to insist that, no, actually, I do, is a bit curious to me.

Who is insisting that you belong to a church?  It's as if someone said "you're always nit picking" and a few comments later I was replying:

But I don't pick nits -- hairy-legged or not.  Period.  And for someone to insist that, no, actually, I do, is a bit curious to me.

So now we come to this har post I'm replying to.  You start:

1.  How is disagreeing with someone censorship?

Who exactly are you disagreeing with?  Who is this person you have a disagreement with?  Sven?  You disagree with his choice of expression?  Fine.  Now why are you still banging on about "churches" when it has been made clear over and over that the expression "broad church" has as much to do with churches as "nit picking" has to do with small animals and, as TBG had it, "saying that someone has a strong suit suggests they're going to spend the rest of their lives playing bridge."

This is very very clear from all the comments but for some reason you just can't do what Sven already did just to smooth the choppy seas: write "Sorry, my misunderstanding, no problem!"  So now we're deep into this church idea.

I explicitly said I don't even belong to secular churches.

But....but but but!  "Broad church" is a description of a group; it means the group holds a wide diversity of views...so how can you not belong to a broad church?  By not being a member of a group that holds a wide diversity of views, right?

Of course you can say, "I don't like to be associated with the expression 'broad church' as it has too many religious overtones for me."  You could even (if you wanted) examine the difference the word 'church' has in modern U.S. compared to U.K.--because there is a sense in which "broad church" is a hangover to ecclesiastical battles and divisions, hey, we still have an established church!  We still have a queen!

Triple ach!  I'll post and be damned--the joys of the interwebs, eh?

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Wed Mar 12th, 2008 at 12:11:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This is really upsetting me and I ask politely that you stop.

This is very sensitive a subject for me -I tried to make that clear- and do not enjoy returning each day to have it dragged out when I have made it explicitly clear that I'm upset by it.  

I'm taking a break from you, from ET, because this is upsetting to me.  I don't know why people have taken this as a threat.  It's a fact and my way of not having to be upset by you everyday.  For my own sake.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Wed Mar 12th, 2008 at 03:31:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]


Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Wed Mar 12th, 2008 at 08:04:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is a community blog, and you're part of it.

The rest is just facet and metaphor and I don't see why you're working yourself up about that.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 04:18:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think it's poorly chosen metaphor and am excersizing the right to say as much.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 06:17:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm OK with that. I do generally think there is not much cause for concern re-
I specifically like ET because no one has to share any beliefs.

because that's part of the official ET charter we all signed ;-)
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 06:50:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No. I think you all shall share my belief that Roland Koch is Evil Incarnate!

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Mar 12th, 2008 at 03:02:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Jeez - did I sign anything when I posted here?

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Mar 13th, 2008 at 05:39:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh my... some explaining to do here, I see.

There's a long explanation, but digging into this further is not something I want to do, so here's the short explanation:

I was just being a smartass.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Thu Mar 13th, 2008 at 05:57:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was just about to ask the same thing!
by The3rdColumn on Fri Mar 14th, 2008 at 11:38:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In spain,durig franco times, the church was the gathering place where leftists took cover.

Franco did not want to get into churches, and some bishops and other member of the Catalan Church organized republican and demcoratic gatherings where people could speak in catalan, and freely ad against fascism.

So, the word church of people has very nice connotation in Spaim.. actually more than church the word "community" was used from the catholic "communion".

The same word can have very very different connotation to very different people. for example, the present Spanish church is so disgustng I would not like to ahve even a name associated with it.. but the catalan and Southern and northern Spanish had chruch communities durign franco times that were the encarnation of "good".

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 02:16:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
using 'church' like this actually broadens the meaning of the word.

(the word had positive connotations for me anyway, because i love architecture and am fascinated by natural acoustics.)

churches are only really enjoyable when they're empty, that way you can whistle and sing to your heart's content.

i had an american friend who, whenever he was looking for a bottle opener, would say 'anyone have a church key?'

it'd be nice if the word could lose its negative image and become more like the way sven uses it here, and eventually reactions like poemless's would become obsolete.

'catholic' is another one of these double-meaning words.

if catholics were more catholic, they wouldn't be catholic at all...

it's very strange what happens when you repeat a word often enough till a part of your brain starts to deconstruct its semantic self.

my dream is that all the beautiful, crumbling, ancient churches could be restored and used for community theatre and spectacle.

which is probaly what they were originally, before the men-in-black, dog-botherers showed up to spoil the fun/ inject some moralisation into the decadent populus...

it must be a bit embarassing for the vatican to see how empty the churches are becoming.

sven is such a master of irony, i would never get offended by anything he writes...

ET as a place to test reverb.....GOOD!

ET as place where we get 'churched'...not so much.

more of a revival tent, anyway, lol.

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Mar 12th, 2008 at 03:51:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
     Ah, this graph is from today: IATA (International Air Transport Association)

And also today the (US) FAA (Federal Aviation  Administration) on the Aviation Forecast Conference gave his forecast with this conclusion:

For the first time since the 1990's, the industry enjoyed consecutive years of profitability as rising load factors coupled with fare increases offset the impact from high fuel prices.

In the long run, we see a healthy, competitive, and profitable industry buoyed by increasing demand for air travel coupled with inexpensive tickets.

The combination of a competitive industry and inexpensive tickets should bode well for consumers.

You see ?  Nothing special ahead.



The struggle of man against tyranny is the struggle of memory against forgetting.(Kundera)
by Elco B (elcob at scarlet dot be) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 03:36:47 PM EST
BBC NEWS | England | Manchester | Top UK police chief is found dead
The head of one of the biggest police forces in Britain has been found dead.

Michael Todd, the Chief Constable of Greater Manchester Police, disappeared while out walking on Snowdon, north Wales, on Monday night.

Rescue teams found the 50-year-old's body on part of the mountain called Bwlch Glas on Tuesday afternoon.

The cause of his death is not yet known but suicide is understood to be one line of inquiry. Letters addressed to his family were also found.



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 03:39:09 PM EST
His wife made him do it. Truly deranged logic from Dr Laura here, watch it and feel your brain revolve.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 04:29:57 PM EST
Yes, we'll have healthy doses of both misogyny and misandry in discussion of this.  Plenty of New Yorker-bashing, too.

But maybe Dr Laura knows something we don't.  This is, after all, someone whose marriage was founded on an affair.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 05:08:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Whose marriage was founded on an affair: Dr Laura's of the Spitzers'. And what do you mean by 'founded on an affair'. At least we somehow got off the subject of 'belief and church at ET'.
by Quentin on Wed Mar 12th, 2008 at 07:10:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Dr Laura's.  She and her husband got together back in the '80s after having an affair.  No idea if they're still married.

Yes, glad we're off the church thing.  Very silly.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Wed Mar 12th, 2008 at 08:06:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Edward Hugh has a long piece on the anti-reforms referendum in Hungary. Baaaah, ending with the demographic non-issue. I think it's more than enough to quote him quoting someone else:

Since writing the above post I have come across a very well written and well informed blog by a Hungarian living in the United States (see here). ... I think the following extract sums up what it has all been about:

...

They don't want to change. They don't want to accept the new rules of a new game. They want to be taken care of by the state. They believe that the state will find the way to support them, provide them with free university education and with absolutely free medical services (not counting the envelopes, of course, but they are accustomed to that). Where will the money come from? They don't rightly care.

..........it is obvious that the "re-education" of the Hungarian people has failed miserably.



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 04:33:28 PM EST
I wrote a searing reply...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 05:02:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sounds like he's a likely candidate for the Redstar re-education camp.

I'll reserve for him a cold cell.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 05:55:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
For Edward, or the female US-resident Hungarian he mis-quotes as a he?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 06:01:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
(And do you love your Indo-European grammatical sexism ;-) ?)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 06:03:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Edward, of course.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill
by r------ on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 06:33:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As for the woman who he's citing, as long as she's been removed from doing any immediate damage to Europe by being in the US, I guess that's ok by me.

Hope she doesn't get sick and have to deal with the US health care system of which she seems so enamored. I know first-hand how that goes, and she's simply clueless if she has an inkling of how things work and still hold's this position.

And you can't re-educate the clueless. You simply give them the non-cadre jobs, like washing windows of the party cadres.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 06:36:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A spot of cement-mixing at -25°C in Siberia would be the ticket, I should think.

</stal>

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Mar 12th, 2008 at 02:59:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't mean to inject a bit of levity into this evening's serious Open Thread, but Centcom commander Adm. Fallon has resigned disputing any idea that it was because he opposed Bush's desire to bring democracy and targets to Iran.  If you flip the spin-dry cycles 180 degrees a few times, you'll end up with "he was fired."

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Ana´s Nin
by Crazy Horse on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 04:41:35 PM EST
The esquire piece by Thomas P.M. Barnett might have sped up the process a little.

The piece is a bit thin on substance, and in the process of talking up Fallon, I got the feeling that Barnett spins Fallon heavily towards his own preferred strategies.

Barnett has a blog, by the way.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 05:09:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And my boss wonders why I voted as I did in the Virginia primary.  Cue the "Kyl Lieberman wasn't a vote to go to war" excuse-making from those Dems who voted for it.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 05:39:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We just lost the one intelligent, decent, none-insane person left around.

Just great. Well, I guess McCain or whoever wins might make him SecDef.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 05:40:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And why exactly would neocon McCain appoint him SecDef, given that he has as much of a hard-on for bombing everything into liberal democracy as Bush? And by "liberal democracy", I mean a charred hellscape of death and destruction and unimaginable horror.

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (m<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 06:22:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Plus it legally cannot happen as no officer can serve as Sec Def less than 10 years after leaving active duty.
by Francois in Paris on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 10:47:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Today is the day the NHS died. At least for me.

I still believe in socialised medicine, that is, healthcare available to all depending on need, not ability to pay. But over the past few years, being a patient in the NHS, dealing with the way the system operates has really worn me down. Ironically, I've also been working for the NHS throughout that entire period until recently, and know that it the NHS doesn't mean to be abusive to its patients, but is systemically poor.

I have a relatively rare medical condition. It is non-fatal, but certainly non-trivial as regards my quality of life. I have not been able to receive the medical treatment I want, and when I have asked them why I could not have a certain treatment, they have reacted in a dismissive manner, making me aware that it is they who decide my treatment. Though I have previously paid for private treatment not available on the NHS for my condition to which they did not react badly, I have suggested that suggested that I might pay for two other treatments that are available through the NHS (though not currently forthcoming) to which the have been nothing but obfuscative.

Previously, I had lost faith in both the GP system, and dentistry, as they deliver poor results. But today I realised that none of the three doctors currently treating me have worked with my condition for more than six months to now, and they still cite factually incorrect information despite my attempts to inform them. I had an argument today concerning a drug and its legality/availability. It began with my doctor claiming that it simply did not exist, and ended with her saying that 'it's not policy to prescribe it'. Why was it not policy? Because it needs to be self-injected, and the risks are too high. Word, I think I need to be sedated.

Sorry for the rant.

Member of the Anti-Fabulousness League since 1987.

by Ephemera on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 05:30:04 PM EST
I've seen others face the same thing.  I believe it is because the NHS as a product of the welfare state is deprioritised - privatisation is wrecking the system.

It's wrong to see anyone have to struggle through/with the system like that.

I'm hoping that in the rest of the UK the equality duties will start to have the same impact that they have in Ireland - public services are contracted out less and less to private sector organisations because they are not compliant with the duties. So more control and co-ordination remains with the public authorities.

I hope you make some headway soon.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 05:50:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks.

I'm kinda of the thinking that the problem is not enough in the way of provide/decider distinction, and the NHS just doesn't offer a way out of the problem. It always feels to me as though once you step into the GP's office with your symptoms, your choice is limited to either accepting or declining treatment, and little else.

I think that I'm of the generation which is going to find getting on with the current way of working to be very difficult.

Member of the Anti-Fabulousness League since 1987.

by Ephemera on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 06:14:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Go to France.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 05:54:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Could I, would I.

I'm unfortunately starting university in six months time, so there's no going anywhere for the next few years.

How's healthcare in Slovenia? I've always fancied that country, as it's got everything in a neat little package.

Member of the Anti-Fabulousness League since 1987.

by Ephemera on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 06:00:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm so sorry for your predicament. In the last year I've read so many testimonies, particularly in the Guardian, of the many little ways in which the NHS completely fails that I am filled with despair at what it has become.

there are no simple solutions, each worker in the system is as much a perpetrator as they are a victim and the service they provide is the result of the many little screw ups each of them perpetuates in the system. You only have to listen to nurses chatting as you wait for treatment to see how much they care and how much they just don't get they're responsible too.

I doubt the system can be reformed; no single person would have the authority who could spare the time to analyse what's happening and determine how to fix it. No Government would risk the threat of a failure of their initiative, so we have the gradual failure from lack of internal maintenance.

No wonder the government is privatising as fast as possible, they think they can fob off responsibility through a contract. But just like the railways the electorate will always blame them even if they cede complete control.

Jerome is right : Move to France.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 06:09:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
within 24 hours they talk of impeachment - for sex:

BBC NEWS | Americas | Deadline to quit for NY's Spitzer

New York State Governor Eliot Spitzer has been given a deadline to step down or face impeachment proceedings over allegations that he hired a prostitute.

But for starting illegal wars and killing multiple 100'000's of people it is of the table.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 06:08:06 PM EST
Also, if you happen to be a Republican senator from let's say Louisiana, not only are you not required to resign, you actually receive a standing ovation from your caucus as you return to the Senate.

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (m<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 06:15:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Fran's umbrage is totally correct.  I will try to say this clearly, though there's no chance:

The amurkan system is broken, not least because the amurkan mind is sick.

I know that lots of amurkans care, and see clearly, but the culture and the body politic is sick.  Perhaps the bile built within the system since long before "the only good indian is a dead indian," is finally taking hold.

i actually think if my compatriots had more good sex, with heart and mind, they would have less tainted sex, and the resulting body politic would be healthier.


"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Ana´s Nin

by Crazy Horse on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 06:35:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Forgive me if I'm not having more good sex.  I can assure you it's not my choice. :)

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 06:36:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Holy crap Poemless!

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill
by r------ on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 06:38:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
???  

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 06:39:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My point exactly!

(Sorry, I was spitting pop out my mouth when I read your comment...)

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 06:41:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
???

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 06:44:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Heh, just not accustomed to talking about good sex around here....

And it's been a wierd day for me in this regard. I kid you not, guess what I found on the path-way biking into work today?

A goddamn vibrator. A purple god-damn vibrator.

Brand new, too.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 06:48:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
rotfl!

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 06:50:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
redstar:
Brand new, too.

How do you tell? ;-)

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 06:53:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
His dog sniffed it and fell asleep.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 06:58:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, I sniffed it, and kept on riding.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill
by r------ on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 07:46:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How 'bout bad sex?
by The3rdColumn on Fri Mar 14th, 2008 at 11:41:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There was a little girl
and she had a little curl
right in the middle of her forehead.
and when she was good
she was very very good
but when she was bad
she was better.

(From Longfellow )

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Mar 14th, 2008 at 11:55:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
He pissed off the wrong set of most-powerful-guys-on-the-planet.

And out of all the topics Americans are hypocritical on, sex tops the list.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 06:21:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
but I thought the rules in the constitution about impeachment said you had to democratic and having extramarital sex?

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 06:47:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hugh Laurie


You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 06:57:49 PM EST
Have some proper Glaswegian (with Added Dr Who)



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 07:06:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Having cavorted with Glaswegians a lot during my London life. I actually understood most of that clip ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Mar 12th, 2008 at 04:27:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Having lived in Corby, I tend to get used as a translator.

(oh and Perth is much worse than Glasgae)

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Mar 12th, 2008 at 01:44:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Don't know the Perth lingo. My only other Scottish pal came from Stirling, but his distortion was mainly accent rather than vocab. The problem with the Glasgae folk was the word substitution. It took me a time to wok out that 'messages' were groceries.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Mar 12th, 2008 at 01:59:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BTW these pals were Stone the Crows, and I have to say I have never laughed so long and so frequently as in their company. But then again it was the London time of substance abusal. I could write a book about a holiday trip with them to Gozo. It had everything that makes rock 'n' roll great ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Mar 12th, 2008 at 02:04:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My favorite story of the week: Geraldine Ferraro claiming that Barack Obama has it easier than Hillary Clinton because he is black.  (Apparently being a female candidate is more difficult than having death threats lobbed at your family so frequently that your Secret Service detail now rivals the sitting president's.)  When David Axelrod calls bullshit race-baiting on her, she claims she's being "attacked" because she's white.  Needless to say, Axelrod is white.

Earlier in the campaign, she called Chris Dodd a sexist for blasting Hillary's flip-flop on driver's licenses for immigrants.  But better yet:  Ferraro, for those of you who don't know, is a snotty former member of Congress from Long Island who was nominated for Veep by Mondale in '84 solely because of the fact that she was a woman.

Always a fun time with the Aging & Entitled Wing of the Democratic Party.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 07:31:02 PM EST
Ferraro is a out of date, by-passed, loser with delusions of relevance.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 09:28:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You just don't understand.  Negroes have it easy.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 09:32:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, it gets better: Ferraro said virtually the same thing about Jesse Jackson in 1988 (via Ben Smith at Politico).

Hooooooboy.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 09:57:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Bank Mistakenly Starts Foreclosure Process On Wrong House In Kissimmee - News Story - WFTV Orlando
KISSIMMEE, Fla. -- A Kissimmee homeowner was in England when he learned a Florida bank had mistakenly started foreclosure proceedings on his house.

As it turns out, Denroy Bell didn't even have a mortgage with the bank, Citi-Residential. The bank admitted that it's dealing with so many foreclosures in Central Florida that it made a mistake.

Bell's neighbor called him when she saw the locks being changed and the pool empty.

My emphasis

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 10:06:49 PM EST
Yeah, Central Florida is going to get crushed, I think.  There's almost literally no economy outside the theme parks, and those jobs are generally taken by kids who are, needless to say, not buying the $400k homes that characterize the Orlando/Kissimmee-St Cloud area.

The Florida housing market is wholly dependent upon wealthy and wealthy-ish Northerners retiring down there, but they generally want to live near the beach.  Kissimmee is in the middle of the swamp in the center.

Florida, in general, is going to be hammered.  Central Florida is going to be devastated.  The one silver lining is the weak dollar, which means foreigners can more easily afford the theme parks, thus pumping up the economy and local government coffers, but that'll likely be more than offset by the recession here.

Not good.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 at 10:18:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And by the fact that they're all treated as dangerous terrorists at the borders.
by Zwackus on Wed Mar 12th, 2008 at 04:30:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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