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Arrogant power: Rome and the US

by Ted Welch Tue May 6th, 2008 at 09:03:53 AM EST

Recently, exploring the area NE of Nice, we ended up at La Turbie, high above Monaco. Later exploration of the background to a famous monument there once again led to some surprising links with present-day politics.

monaco-la-turbie-60425

As we walked through the village, we had to pass through a group of mourners in a street outside a church - nobody was taking photos and neither did I. It was a lovely day, which somebody couldn't enjoy any longer. La Turbie's main claim to fame is a grander reminder of mortality - La Tropheé des Alpes - its ruins  dominating the village

turbie-village2

 http://www.beyond.fr/villphotos2/turbieP01.html

The Trophée des Alpes, or Trophy of Augustus, was a 50 m high monument to the power of Rome and the glory of Augustus. Now only 35 m high and half in ruin, it's still an imposing monument, over 2000 years after it was built.

http://www.beyond.fr/sites/trophee.html

One might have thought we might have learned some lessons in all that time, but exploring the background to this monument reveals remarkable parallels with today, and that some politicians go on making some of the same mistakes, due to similar arrogance and ignorance.

Promoted by Migeru


In 13 BC, during the reign of Augustus (who had been Octavian until 31 BC) the Romans planned a new coast road into Gaul (Provence). This road became the Via Julia Augustus (or Via Julia, later to merge into the Aurelian Way that was built 150 years later. Augustus used this route to conquer the Ligurians and bring the Pax Romain to Provence.

http://www.beyond.fr/sites/trophee.html

aug-stat-mus-60438

Statue of Augustus in the Trophée's museum with map of the Via Julia Augustus


 At La Turbie the road passed over the lowest point on a ridge that ran out from Mont Agel. This was not only a strategic site, it was also the highest point on the long Roman road into Gaul and marked the gateway between Italy and the Roman conquests of Gaul.

http://www.beyond.fr/sites/trophee.html

aug-model-60440

The model in the museum showing how the monument looked when constructed

Memory of vertigo

As we climbed up, partly on the inside, I suddenly knew that we would come out on an open platform with a vertiginous view. I had just remembered that I had been here before, with a girlfriend, decades ago. I remembered clearly that as we emerged from inside onto the platform there was no barrier, and I had almost clung to the wall at the back with a sudden attack of vertigo, while my girlfriend casually peered over the edge!

augustus-mon-view-60435

Now, in a more safety-conscious age, there was a comforting steel barrier. The memory of the sensation was very clear, but I had entirely forgotten the location. Could it really be that long ago that I'd been here before - another intimation of mortality.

Ruins

The ruin of the Trophy began about 15 centuries ago, with the decline of the Roman Empire. In early 400 AD the Wisigoths entered Provence, the Vandals passed through and other "barbarians" added to the general destruction of the area and the Trophy.

The religious powers that increased towards the end of the Merovingian dynasty disliked the Trophy, considering it as dedicated to the pagen Apollo, and around 700 AD, the Monks of Lérins arrived to destroy the statues.
...
Louis IV ordered the Trophy blown up in 1705, but the 17-century-old construction largely withstood his efforts. The durable stone was pillaged to build the Saint-Michel church as well as numerous other constructions ...

http://www.beyond.fr/sites/trophee.html

aug-trophee-60429

 This huge, ruined monument reminded me of Shelley's poem, Ozymandias (1818)


I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: -- Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them on the sand,
Half sunk, a shatter'd visage lies, whose frown
And wrinkled lip and sneer of cold command
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamp'd on these lifeless things,
The hand that mock'd them and the heart that fed.
And on the pedestal these words appear:
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains: round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

aug-stat-mus-2-60439

Imperial propaganda

Augustus had a lot more to say than Ozymandias, and his autobiographical epitaph has been pieced together from various monuments to him scattered around what was the Roman Empire. The title gives the flavour:

The achievements of the deified Augustus by which he placed the whole world under the sovereignty of the Roman people, and of the amounts which he expended upon the state and the Roman people.

E.g. : a section related to La Trophée, which also has echoes of recent US imperialism:

The Alps, from the region which lies nearest to the Adriatic as far as the Tuscan Sea, I brought to a state of peace without waging on any tribe an unjust war ... the Cimbri and Charydes and Semnones and other peoples of the Germans of that same region through their envoys sought my friendship and that of the Roman people.  On my order and under my auspices two armies were led, at almost the same time, into Ethiopia and into Arabia which is called the "Happy," and very large forces of the enemy of both races were cut to pieces in battle and many towns were captured.

http://www.livius.org/ra-rn/res_gestae/res_gestae06.html

The price of arrogance

But I noticed that while he'd referred to the friendly Germans, he'd omitted one of the Roman empire's greatest military disasters, the annihilation of three legions, one tenth of Rome's military might, by the Germans in the Teutoburg forest!

I remembered reading that when news reached Augustus he was unable to sleep, banged his head against the wall and cried "give me back my legions". I put this phrase into Google and, in one of those weird coincidences, instead of the expected link to a site about classical history, the first link was to an article in the Boston Globe - supporting my point about the link between Rome and the US today, comparing US policy in Iraq to Roman policy in Germany! It's a very interesting article, I recommend reading the whole thing:

'Give me back my legions!' Rome's most humiliating defeat -- and a lesson for America

By Cullen Murphy May 20, 2007

... Some Romans blamed sheer incompetence, some the bad weather, some a supernatural judgment. No one at the time hinted at the true explanation, the strategic premise of the disaster, which was simply this: The Roman disinclination either to understand the mind or credit the capabilities of people unlike themselves.

"Underestimation of space was matched by the under-rating of people," one historian concludes. Another writes, "The Romans simply could not believe that their military forces had been outfought by the northern barbarians." Even if evidence had been presented, in advance, of barbarian precocity, he goes on, "Augustus and other Roman officials would not have been receptive."

According to Suetonius, after receiving news of the battle Augustus could be heard hitting his head against a door and lamenting aloud, "Quinctilius Varus, give me back my legions!"

Those words -- "give me back my legions" -- have echoed hauntingly down the centuries. They have particular force today as America breaks its army in Iraq, a predicament brought on in part by habits of mind with long antecedents - an Augustan pedigree.

Boston Globe

Arminius/Hermann/Siegfried - the German hero

In the 19th century a monument was erected to the leader of the triumphant Germans:

TheDetmoldHermansMonument2

In 1875, a huge bronze statue was erected in Germany to commemorate the event on what was believed to be the immediate area of the battle. The "Hermann's Denkmal" (Memoria) is to be found on a high hill near Detmold, facing south towards Rome, with sword held aloft, and foot pinning the Roman eagle to the floor.

http://varusbattle.com/index.html

Of Arminius, the Roman historian Tacitus wrote, "He was undoubtedly the liberator of Germany, a man who did not, as did other kings and generals, challenge Rome in its early stages, but when it stood at the zenith of its power. In battles he fought with varying success, but in the war he remained unconquered. His deeds live on in the songs of his people...." (Tacitus, Annals, 1, 57,58)

These songs were handed down through the generations, and the story of Arminius became transformed into myth in the process.

The Correspondences between Arminius and Siegfried

Famous twentieth-century researchers ... retraced the development of these epic poems and discovered that their hero, Siegfried, is indeed the figure whose Latin name has come down to us as Arminius.

http://www.harbornet.com/folks/theedrich/hive/Medieval/Siegfried.htm

From Germany to the US

hermann-ulm-us2

http://www.ci.new-ulm.mn.us/index.asp

As a point of interest a similar statue was built in New Ulm, Minnesota, USA, in 1897, by German immigrants and settlers, to commemorate their settlement in America. (Some 35% of the American population is of German descent).

ibid

Despite this reminder, actually on US soil, of a famous Roman imperial disaster, Rumsfeld (German origin ?), and co. went on to repeat the Romans' arrogant ignorance of other peoples - and ordinary Americans, like the Romans, are paying a heavy price - in this case those they attacked are paying a far greater price.

The Romans learned from the disaster and never again tried to conquer the Germans beyond the Rhine and the Roman empire lasted another four hundred years. But the kind of people who got the Americans into the Iraq disaster talk about attacking Iran:


In a veritable blitz of editorials and opinion pieces published Wednesday and Thursday, the Wall Street Journal, the Weekly Standard, and National Review warned that Tehran had passed a significant benchmark in what they declared was its quest for nuclear weapons and that the administration must now plan in earnest to destroy Iran's known nuclear facilities, as well as possible military targets, to prevent it from retaliating.

Comparing Iran's alleged push to gain a nuclear weapon to Adolf Hitler's 1936 march on the Rhineland, Weekly Standard editor William Kristol called for undertaking "serious preparation for possible military action - including real and urgent operational planning for bombing strikes and for the consequences of such strikes."

[Explaining, in a style which might have been borrowed from Augustus]

"[A] great nation has to be serious about its responsibilities," according to Kristol, a leading neoconservative champion of the Iraq war and co-founder of the Project for the New American Century, "even if executing other responsibilities has been more difficult than one would have hoped." [to put it mildly]

http://www.antiwar.com/lobe/?articleid=8852

Kristol should go back a lot further in German history for a more apt and sobering lesson about "great nations" and the "difficulties" they can experience.

Display:
Martin van Creveld made the same point back in 2005.

Costly Withdrawal Is the Price To Be Paid for a Foolish War | The Forward | 25.11.2005 (B.C. should be A.D, of course)

For misleading the American people, and launching the most foolish war since Emperor Augustus in 9 B.C sent his legions into Germany and lost them, Bush deserves to be impeached and, once he has been removed from office, put on trial along with the rest of the president's men. If convicted, they'll have plenty of time to mull over their sins.
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 at 02:16:41 AM EST
It's a pity that many more people didn't make the point. Rather than making a passing reference, Murphy's article in the Boston Globe goes into some detail about the Roman disaster and the similarities in terms of attitudes:


"What struck me most about the palace was the completely self-referential character of it," one American diplomat later recalled. "It was all about us, not about them. People would walk around the palace with a mixture of venal and idealistic motives. None of them knew Iraq."

All about us, not about them: the great imperial cliche. "Spartacus" may not be a historically fastidious movie, to put it mildly, but in one respect it does accurately capture the ancient Roman state of mind. Right after the campy bath scene, in which Laurence Olivier's Crassus is washed by the slave boy Tony Curtis, Olivier takes Curtis out to the balcony and shows him the legions passing by.

"There, boy, is Rome," Crassus intones. "There is the might, the majesty, the terror of Rome. There is the power that bestrides the world like a colossus. No man can withstand Rome, no nation can withstand her -- how much less a boy?" The historical Crassus would one day lose an army in the desert sands.

Coming upon those words from the movie not long ago, it was hard not to recall a remark made by a Bush administration official to the reporter Ron Suskind: "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors...and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."

Boston Globe



Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 at 04:52:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
... Midnight Oil Diary Roll.


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 at 07:31:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Thu Apr 24th, 2008 at 04:19:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
<BLOCKQUOTE>  Coming upon those words from the movie not long ago, it was hard not to recall a remark made by a Bush administration official to the reporter Ron Suskind: "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors...and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do." <BLOCKQUOTE/>

That is a famous quote of mind boggling arrogance.

Has it ever been revealed, definitively, who made the quote?

by Jagger on Fri Apr 25th, 2008 at 03:40:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

From a brief check on Google, it doesn't seem so - one guess is Karl Rove, which seems plausible.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Fri Apr 25th, 2008 at 05:59:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Another repeated nominee is Dick Cheney.

Capitalism searches out the darkest corners of human potential, and mainlines them.
by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 03:48:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
... term is hubris, "extreme (or "overweening") pride, especially when considered a tragic flaw."


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 10:40:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
... technical term is hubris, "extreme (or "overweening") pride, especially when considered a tragic flaw."


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 10:41:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes. Cf.:

The Hubris Syndrome
Bush, Blair and the Intoxication of Power
David Owen

A powerful analysis of Bush and Blair's style of government, from a respected politician and medical doctor, offering revealing personal insights and a devastating critique

For many politicians, power seems to go to their head, and becomes a heady drug affecting every action they take. The Greeks called it hubris, where the hero wins glory, acclaim and success - but it is often followed by nemesis.

David Owen suggests George Bush and Tony Blair developed a Hubristic Syndrome while in power. He provides a powerful analysis, looking at their behaviour, beliefs and governing style, in particular the nature of their hubristic incompetence in handling the Iraq War. Both of them, and in her last year in office, Margaret Thatcher, developed many of the tell-tale and defining symptoms.

A statesman, politician and medical doctor, with personal knowledge of the war in the Balkans, David Owen has unique insight into Blair's premiership, including several meetings and conversations with Blair from 1996-2004. With his long political experience, Owen has written a devastating critique of the way that Bush and Blair manipulated intelligence and failed to plan for the aftermath of taking Baghdad. Their messianic manner, excessive confidence in their own judgement, and unshakeable belief that they will be vindicated by a 'higher court', have doomed what the author believes could have been a successful democratic transformation of Iraq.

http://www.politicospublishing.co.uk/titles.php/itemcode/178



Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 05:06:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well and beautifully done Ted.

Being a resident of the area, I see this monument to hubris every day. Even in the state it is in, it is visible and stricking from afar, both from the land and especially from the sea.

One of the details that I have picked up about the La Tropheé des Alpes is that it was made after Ceasar's armies opened the route...after 200 years of being fought off by the locals. The Romans had sea routes to France (and beyond) for hundreds of years, but somehow the locals kept this land route closed. The locals were then enslaved to build the monument to Augustus.


Never underestimate their intelligence, always underestimate their knowledge.

Frank Delaney ~ Ireland

by siegestate (siegestate or beyondwarispeace.com) on Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 at 07:23:49 AM EST
Thanks very much.

I thought about you when we expectedly turned up at La Turbie. We must have another drink or two in Villefranche  sometime.

The bloody French - being difficult with foreigners even then :-)

In the museum there is a video about the history of the monument which includes a list of about 45 tribes "pacified" - it's done as a list moving in perspective into the background - it seems endless. But then one thinks of the Monty Python: "What did the Romans do for us?" :-)

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 at 11:42:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
while we were visiting many of the crumbling relics of imperial, medieval, renaissance, and catholic Italy. Beautiful and awful - and outgrown, I hope - and perhaps necessary in an Hegelian/Marxist sense. But the terrible arrogance and cruelty - couldn't help but think of all of the other somebodies who couldn't enjoy a lovely day any longer because of these excremental "art patrons".

Thanks again for your Florence diary of some months ago. Good preparation.

paul spencer

by paul spencer (spencerinthegorge AT yahoo DOT com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 12:20:53 PM EST

I'm glad that you found it useful. M. tends to respond to the beauty, like you I can't help thinking of all those exploited and killed to make it all possible.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 04:05:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Romans learned from the disaster and never again tried to conquer the Germans beyond the Rhine ...

You might want to check that. Read what happened after the death of Augustus. As a result of later Roman invasions of Germania, for example, Hermann's wife Thusnelda was captured and taken to Rome as a prisoner.

by Anthony Williamson on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 01:36:31 PM EST
... expeditions were for conquest and which were for other purposes, since Rome in its rise from a city-state to an empire spanning the Mediterranean and overflowing to the North Atlantic Rim never once fought an aggressive war of conquest ... each and every war was a war of defense, and all conquests were merely consolidating new defensive lines.

At least, that was the official line.

There are, I think, additional analogies residing in there somewhere.


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 02:27:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I was relying on (but over-simplified) this:

The battle began a seven-year war which established the Rhine as the boundary of the Roman Empire for the next four hundred years, until the decline of the Roman influence in the West. The Roman Empire made no further concerted attempts to conquer Germania beyond the Rhine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Teutoburg_Forest

History, as usual, is a bit more complicated, though the general point seems valid:

In spite of doubts on the part of his uncle, Emperor Tiberius, Germanicus managed to raise another huge army and invaded Germania again the next year, in 16 AD.
...
One final battle was fought at the Angivarian Wall west of modern Hanover, repeating the pattern of high German fatalities forcing them to flee.
...
 After a few more raids across the Rhine, which resulted in the recovery of two of the three legion's eagles lost in 9, Germanicus was recalled to Rome and informed by Tiberius that he would be given a triumph and reassigned to a different command.[2] [3]

...

Despite the successes enjoyed by his troops, Germanicus' German campaign was in reaction to the mutinous intentions of his troops, and lacked any strategic value. In addition he engaged the very German leader (Arminius) who had destroyed three Roman legions in AD 9, and exposed his troops to the remains of those dead Romans. Furthermore, in leading his troops across the Rhine, without recourse to Tiberius, he flouted the instructions of Augustus to keep that river as the boundary of the empire, and opened himself to doubts about his motives in such independent action. These errors in strategic and political judgement gave Tiberius reason enough to recall his nephew.[1]



Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 04:01:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm green with envy, having spent a very pleasant week in Es, just a couple of miles west of Monaco, and so probably some way down from the monument - on the Coast.  It's a beautiful area.

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 05:07:08 PM EST
Do you mean Eze ?

eze-terr-10652

Photo taken during our visit to Eze Jan 07

There's a path from the coast to the village called Nietzsche's Path; a local web site, in quaint English says:

When he arrives on the coast called Azur yet, the mental of Nietzsche is very bad. His books are sold badly, he comes just quarrel with Wagner and reject by Lou Andréa Salomé.

On the French Riviera, Nieztche will find the creative emotion necessary to write, "here, I grow on the sun as the plants grows there" he writes. And in a letter to Peter Gast he adds :"...This splendid plenitude of light has on me, a miraculous action".

Eze in particular by the path which takes from Eze station at the seaside to the village, will play a dominating part in his work. If it's proved that Nietzsche remained in Nice during his stay, an oral tradition also affirms that he stayed in Eze Seaside, on the site of the old post office.

According to some people, he would have also slept on several occasions in the village.

In Eze, the philosopher very sensitive to the influence of the climate and the landscapes, regenerates himself. Like many writers, he needs to walk to create." "I could, without having the concept of tiredness, be in the mountains during seven or eight hours of continuation". I slept well, I laugh much. I was in a perfect condition of patience."

nieztsche path

There, in the middle of olive-trees, euphorbia and holm oak, in the middle of this wild nature, with the Mediterranean in the background and the silhouette of the village. Nietszche composed some parts of Thus spoke Zarathoustra that he qualifies as "the decisive ones".

"The next winter, I found in Nice the third Zarathoustra - and I had thus finished", he writes adding : "This decisive part which have the name "Old and new tables" was composed during a laborious walk from the station to the Moorish village, built in the rocks."

http://www.eze-riviera.com/village/ang/path_nietzsche.htm



Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 05:53:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yep - sorry - Eze - but on the coast - we didn't make it up the hill!

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 11:12:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What will Americans leave in Iraq?

Did they annihilate last Babylon heritage for a most pompastic show-up?

Who knows, maybe all what will be left in a century will be just dust and stone there. But US has nice near future plans (hat tip to here):


Picture, if you will, a tree-lined plaza in Baghdad's International Village, flanked by fashion boutiques, swanky cafes, and shiny glass office towers. Nearby a golf course nestles agreeably, where a chip over the water to the final green is but a prelude to cocktails in the club house and a soothing massage in a luxury hotel, which would not look out of place in Sydney harbour. Then, as twilight falls, a pre-prandial stroll, perhaps, amid the cool of the Tigris Riverfront Park, where the peace is broken only by the soulful cries of egrets fishing.

Improbable though it all may seem, this is how some imaginative types in the US military are envisaging the future of Baghdad's Green Zone, the much-pummelled redoubt of the Iraqi capital where a bunker shot has until now had very different connotations.

A $5bn (£2.5bn) tourism and development scheme for the Green Zone being hatched by the Pentagon and an international investment consortium would give the heavily fortified area on the banks of the Tigris a "dream" makeover that will become a magnet for Iraqis, tourists, business people and investors. About half of the area is now occupied by coalition forces, the US state department or private foreign companies.

by das monde on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 02:52:51 AM EST


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