Top Diaries

Ah, but taxes are baaaaaaaaaad. Reducing them is always good.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue May 27th, 2008 at 05:33:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

On the other hand, it's been obvious to me that this would be one of the first gambits tried.

Reducing European taxes will not increase oil prices substantially, especially if it's a capping mechanism at a "high" price, since most of the demand is elsewhere. If the capping was done at a price high enough to reduce demand, with some mechanism to slowly raise the cap in the future, it mightn't be a bad idea, cushioning the blow in the EU.

Likewise subsidies for hard-hit producers, assuming there is a plan to reform the industry away from dependance on fossil fuels.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue May 27th, 2008 at 05:50:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just one big sigh... (4.00 / 3)

Colman:

assuming there is a plan to reform the industry away from dependance on fossil fuels.

Oh my aching sides.

Are there any plans, anywhere in the world, to switch industries to strategic sustainability?

I suppose Scandinavia might be thinking along these lines, perhaps. But most of the core Euro zone is still partying like it's 1999.

The mood in the UK is exactly along Sarko's lines - kick the politicians to lower taxes, and hope the problem goes away.

I'd agree in the short term - make some token cuts to shut everyone up, start using fuel duty to develop a crash program of viable transport alternatives, and ride herd on the main infrastructure companies to push their prices down to more realistic levels so delivery becomes more likely.

Not gonna happen here though.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue May 27th, 2008 at 06:18:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

ThatBritGuy:

Are there any plans, anywhere in the world, to switch industries to strategic sustainability?
I suppose Scandinavia might be thinking along these lines, perhaps. But most of the core Euro zone is still partying like it's 1999.

I was just looking at that IEA 2007 key data report. Norway gets 98.9% of its electricity from hydro.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 27th, 2008 at 07:43:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

surely as you move a greater percentage of transport over to electric, along with heating etc. the amount of electricity required will be greater, and the hydro percentage will shrink? so while Norway may be in an apparently good position, it will need to either increase the number of hydro plants, which may not be practical, or find some alternate source of power. and no doubt because of the oil and gas supplies off Norways coast, the assumption would be that that is the method of choice of making up the difference.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue May 27th, 2008 at 08:33:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I would imagine that Norway has good off-shore wind. And i know that they have lots of fjords, which to my mind suggests tidal power.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue May 27th, 2008 at 09:30:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The tidal currents in the longest fjords must be pretty strong.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 27th, 2008 at 02:48:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Aren't the Norwegian fjords too deep to develop the proper resonances that give really strong tides ?

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Tue May 27th, 2008 at 08:03:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Heh (none / 1)

ind Power Could Make Norway "Europe's Battery"
OSLO - Norway could become "Europe's battery" by developing huge sea-based wind parks costing up to $44 billion by 2025, Norway's Oil and Energy Minister said on Monday.
Norway's Energy Council, comprising business leaders and officials, said green exports could help the European Union reach a goal of getting 20 percent of its electricity by 2020 from renewable sources such as wind, solar, hydro or wave power.
"Norway could be Europe's battery," Oil and Energy Minister Aaslaug Haga told Reuters after she was handed the report, which will be considered by the centre-left government in coming months.
"The thinking is that Norway is blessed, is lucky, to have big energy resources. There is undoubtedly a large potential for wind power," she said. Norway says it has the longest coastline in Europe, from the North Sea to the Arctic Barents Sea.
The 30-page report, mapping out a big shift for the world's number 5 oil exporter, said: "Norway ought to have access to up to 40 terrawatt hours of renewable energy in 2020-2025, of which about half would come from offshore wind power."
Sufficient wind parks -- totalling 5,000 to 8,000 megawatts installed capacity -- would cost between 100 billion Norwegian and 220 billion Norwegian crowns ($43.89 billion) assuming prices of 20-28 million crowns per installed megawatt.
The energy would be equivalent to up to about eight nuclear power plants. Norway pumps about 2.2 million barrels of oil per day -- $44 billion represents the value of about half a year's output.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue May 27th, 2008 at 04:03:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Heh (4.00 / 2)

What he's really talking about is that Norway, with its incredible hydropower resources, could store the North Sea windpower to make it firm.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Tue May 27th, 2008 at 07:18:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

http://www.physorg.com/news131029777.html

We do have our oil phase-out program. It's pretty much hot air, skirted peak oil almost entirely while focusing on climate change and, yes, biofuels. Sigh.

And yesterday I was listening to the audio book version of the memoirs of the former soc dem prime minister who, just in passing, mentions that global oil extraction has probably peaked.

Yes, that's right: <head explodes>

Oh, and Carl Bildt mentioned peak oil on his blog a few weeks ago, when oil hit $119.

They know. But they can't act without being thown out of office by the angry masses. Our mission is to educate people so the politicans are empowered to act.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Tue May 27th, 2008 at 08:21:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

OT: High Unemployment Insurance Benefits Employmen (none / 1)

Companies are willing to pay higher wages in order to ensure that workers remain committed and contribute their best efforts to maximize productivity levels, according to a study in the International Journal of Economic Theory published by Wiley-Blackwell. An increase in unemployment insurance, while implying higher wages, is nevertheless beneficial to long term economic activity.

A 'centrist' is someone who's neither on the left, nor on the left.

by nicta (nico＠altiva․fr) on Tue May 27th, 2008 at 05:43:11 AM EST

To be fair, this is a proposal he knows will fail, and he'll blame the EU for it. Honest Sarko trying to help out the little guy and being stymied by the faceless bureaucrats.

The Irish Examiner version of the story has this:

Finance Minister Christine Lagarde said today that consumer nations must ask oil producers to do something about the rising prices. She said she had already asked counterparts within the Group of 7 richest nations to "discuss this issue among consumer nations" so it can be presented to producing countries.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue May 27th, 2008 at 05:44:22 AM EST

Strikeout! (4.00 / 2)

One way or another, it's not going to last. But we're choosing the maximum pain route.

In my speeches and discussions of energy policy after the two "oil shocks" of the seventies, i used the metaphor of baseball. We've swung and missed at two hard fastballs. Then i would switch metaphors, and say, with two strikes, we can learn the easy way, or we can learn the hard way, but we're going to learn. Now comes the hard curveballs.

I'm a good hitter with two strikes, but it doesn't at all seem as if this civilization has the brains or the balls to do the right thing. so we will continue to develop better turbines, laser-cutting for cheaper solar cells, and better finance packages to get it all done. Enough?

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Tue May 27th, 2008 at 05:47:22 AM EST

Re: Strikeout! (4.00 / 2)

Baseball is one of the ones with clubs, right?

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue May 27th, 2008 at 05:51:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

They all have clubs (4.00 / 2)

In football, they're called football clubs, and in baseball, baseball clubs...

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue May 27th, 2008 at 04:04:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And the maximum pain will be borne by the people who will bear the maximum pain. Who may they be?

by Quentin on Tue May 27th, 2008 at 06:18:08 AM EST

Politicos are desperate (4.00 / 4)

While they seem to perceive the situation correctly, the courses of action proposed, if existent, are towards worsening it.

luis_de_sousa@mastodon.social

by Luis de Sousa (luis[dot]de[dot]sousa[at]protonmail[dot]ch) on Tue May 27th, 2008 at 06:18:17 AM EST

"But we're choosing the maximum pain route."

Maybe some are taking the "No pain no gain" motto to the letter?

by Torres on Tue May 27th, 2008 at 07:16:58 AM EST

They really enve learn.. or they really know perfectly what they are doing...

But...I think people and politicans and elites are all of them on the "insane" path...

Nothing we can do but watch the events unfold and push our narratives... I am not sure anybody is going to lsiten until they do nto reallya understand teh situation "narrative" that life can not be the same. And it's a tough narrative to swallow.

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Tue May 27th, 2008 at 07:27:39 AM EST

OT (none / 1)

Hi, kcurie! I will be in Barcelona from June16 to June 21. I hope we will find an opportunity to meet. Please, let me know if it's possible. By the way, are there other ETers in Barcelona?

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

by Melanchthon on Tue May 27th, 2008 at 07:41:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OT (none / 0)

I think we can arrange it.. I am around here...

Others in barcelona? There was one.. but I do not see her around ET in a long time. So I guess it will be just me...

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Tue May 27th, 2008 at 12:59:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OT (none / 0)

Great! Could you send me an e-mail so i can get in touch with you?

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

by Melanchthon on Tue May 27th, 2008 at 06:01:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just one big sigh... (4.00 / 3)

kcurie:

I am not sure anybody is going to lsiten until they do nto reallya understand teh situation "narrative" that life can not be the same.

People only abandon a narrative (and even then not reliably) when it patently starts contradicting their experience and an alternative one fits the facts better.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 27th, 2008 at 07:45:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

and Ségolène Royal just said the government has waited too long before lowering taxes and should lower hem more... How stupid!

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

by Melanchthon on Tue May 27th, 2008 at 07:38:32 AM EST

She's a populist.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 27th, 2008 at 07:41:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Demagogue, not populist.

Being a populist is probably a good thing right now when you see what the "elites" are doing.

by Francois in Paris on Tue May 27th, 2008 at 08:54:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What I find utterly depressing is the contempt that populists have for their audience.

Neither Sarkozy nor Royal can be stupid, nor ignorant of Economics 101.

So in order to spout this rubbish, they have to be assuming that most voters and just about all journalists are both.

by Sassafras on Tue May 27th, 2008 at 08:22:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Neither Sarkozy nor Royal can be stupid, nor ignorant of Economics 101.

I think none of them is really knowledgeable about economy...

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

by Melanchthon on Tue May 27th, 2008 at 08:31:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What do we mean by Economics 101, and is that the same thing as being knowledgeable about economy?

If you assume we're in the middle of a temporary price spike, do you get the same answer from Economics 101?

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 27th, 2008 at 08:34:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I mean the absolute basic stuff like claiming cutting taxes will reduce the profits of greedy suppliers.

That's rubbish whether we're in the middle of a temporary price spike or not.

by Sassafras on Tue May 27th, 2008 at 08:39:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Le Cercle des économistes n'épargne pas Ségolène Royal
Après Éric Woerth, Didier Migaud et Valérie Pécresse, c'était au tour de Ségolène Royal d'être l'invitée, mardi, du Cercle des économistes, club d'une trentaine d'économistes réputés présidé par Jean-Hervé Lorenzi. Le dîner-débat, organisé à Paris dans le célèbre restaurant Chez Laurent, a tourné au vinaigre. Effarés par les assertions de l'ex-candidate à la présidentielle et par ses perpétuelles comparaisons des enjeux économiques mondiaux avec ceux de la Région Poitou-Charentes, les experts, de droite comme de gauche, ont voulu la pousser dans ses retranchements. À court d'arguments, Ségolène Royal a menacé de quitter la table, arguant qu'elle n'était pas venue «repasser le bac». «Mais il est bien question du bac ! Nous sommes tous profs à Polytechnique ou à l'université. Il y a effectivement erreur sur le niveau», s'est moqué l'un d'eux.

trans.
The "cercle des économiste" think tank do not spare Ségolène Royal
After Eric Woerth, D. Migaud and V. Pécresse, Ségolène Royal has been invited last tuesday by the "cercle des économistes". The "cercle" is a famous economists club of around thirty members, presided by JH Lorenzi. The meeting, organised around a dinner at famous parisian "Chez Laurent" restaurant turned sour. Astonished by the ex-candidate for presidence declarations and her repeated comparisons between french poitou-charente's local administration and world economical affairs, experts, unregarding their political opinions, fired questions at her.
With no argumentation left, Ségolène Royal threated with leaving the dinner, arguing that she did'nt come to pass "high school exams".
"but this is not a question of high school exams", mocked one of the economists, " we are all Polytechnique or University professors. there is clearly a mistake on the level required"

by Xavier in Paris on Tue May 27th, 2008 at 01:47:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

from "le figaro", known right wing french newspaper

According to rue89.fr, a french news website, the "cercle" chairman, JH Lorenzi tried to protest in the figaro, which was refused, and then organised an internal group to deal with the leak, labelled as "against the cercle's rules"

by Xavier in Paris on Tue May 27th, 2008 at 01:51:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So who is this story supposed to make to look bad?

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 27th, 2008 at 02:47:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

yes, it's the usual Ségolène bashing by "le figaro", and an answer to comment above about the economical knowledge of one of the socialist party leaders.

Sorry about the translation by the way.

by Xavier in Paris on Tue May 27th, 2008 at 03:50:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]