Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.

Monday Open Thread

by Jerome a Paris Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 09:43:19 AM EST

It's Time


Display:
Have fun, I'm off for a beer with InWales

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 09:56:53 AM EST
It was more than one beer!  Great to see you again Helen and thanks for the good company and new beers to try out!
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 05:04:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Anyone around? ...round ....ound....und...und...?

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 10:46:07 AM EST
Strange, because the visitor numbers are up again.
by Fran on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 11:22:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
frontpaged my two recent articles (on the offshore wind farm, and on Countdown meets Anglo Disease) with the links to the series here.

Energy Bulletin also posted them, but the main source of extra visitors was TOD

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 11:37:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes ... yes ... esss  ... essss.

But not for long. Busy week ahead.

I'm also still trying to figure out how to make that little conversation I had last week with Migeru interesting and clear enough for a diary.

by Francois in Paris on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 01:47:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm off. See you later this week.
by Francois in Paris on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 03:46:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
HI (wave) I'm here.

I have a oil question - I'm a fan of the countdown series

- my mom sent me the following chain mail:

VERY IMPORTANT RE- GAS PRICES
KATHIE AND DAVID
Jun 5, 2008

VERY IMPORTANT - PLEASE TAKE A COUPLE MINUTES TO SIGN  NEWT'S CAMPAIGN, OR  YOU WILL SOON BE  PAYING  EUROPEAN PRICES FOR GAS  ($10 A GALLON .)
Want to pay less for Oil and Gas?  Go to Newt Gingrich American Solutions and sign the petition.

America has 38  billion barrels of oil available which has been made inaccessible.
America also has one Trillion barrels of shale oil which is illegal for us to drill. More than Arab oil fields
China is planning to drill for oil 40 miles off of our coast line but Congress has made it illegal for us to drill.    

blah blah ...

where can I find an intelligent answer for her middle American angst?

thanks in advance

by Spatz (sonya.faberATizi.fraunhofer.de) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 11:01:30 AM EST
Just tell her she'll be paying "European prices" for gas regardless.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 11:05:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Realistically, that's the only sane answer.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 11:08:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You can then get into the specifics, such as 38 billion barrels is only 5 years' worth of current consumption.

For the trillion barrels of shale oil you'd have to talk about ERoEI, but maybe you can avoid getting technical and just point out that extracting oil out of shale is so hard Total was planning on building dedicated nuclear reactors to power its Canadian tar sands operations.

And so on.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 11:12:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hi all, I wasn't gone, just hadn't logged in in while. Thanks for the comments,

One question about shale oil, - doesn't it require more energy to remove and process it than it supplies?

thanks again

by Spatz (sonya.faberATizi.fraunhofer.de) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 12:01:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's what ERoEI stands for: Energy Return on Energy Investment.

The Oil Drum has a recent (April 15, 2008) post - probably one of many - on Tar Sands ERoEI, with the following table:

A previous post about the ERoEI of conventional oil and gas includes this table:
Note: between 1930 and 2005 Oil and Gas ERoEI has deteriorated from 100:1 to (at best) 18:1.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 02:02:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
EROEI is a tough concept to grasp for some, but the difference between oil shooting out of wells during the early 20th century and scrubbing oil off of rocks should be explainable to most.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 04:08:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Even at $4/gallon, there's a fair bit of change in behavior occurring.  The problem is that a combination of low incomes and dependence on larger vehicles for work is crushing people in a few regions (the upper Plains, the Mississippi Delta, etc), while in other regions, whether because of higher incomes or better access to more efficient transit, it's not really much of an issue.  The NYT's running a story on it today, with pretty maps and everything.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 11:30:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Apparently Newt is now a 'green conservative.'

He really is a revolting toad of a man, isn't he?

Anyway - it's interesting to read the comments. Good ole patriotic Americans are convinced that Congress is getting between them and their gas, and that all they have to do is drill! drill! drill! and everything can go back to normal.

It's depressing - really, truly, deeply, depressing - how few people seem to be able to do the conceptual equivalent of basic arithmetic when it comes to issues like these.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 01:41:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Depressing, yes, but that won't hold for the majority.  The majority seems to get that something permanent is taking place, and the television press is actually doing a respectable job saying just that as they cover rising prices and side items like the GM story.  People seem to be finally getting the message.

Conservatives, as you know, thrive is environments where the electorate is ignorant and lazy.  But people don't seem to be ignorant and lazy right now, for whatever reason, the way they were prior to about 2005.  I'm not saying it'll continue, of course, since one should never underestimate America's capacity for rationalization.  But, for now, it looks like the message is getting across.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 01:51:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Drew J Jones:
Conservatives, as you know, thrive is environments where the electorate is ignorant and lazy.  But people don't seem to be ignorant and lazy right now, for whatever reason, the way they were prior to about 2005.

New Orleans was a big learning experience which will take a long time to forget. Of course the lesson of that course is that Republicans don't give a shit about people.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 03:17:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You mean basic arithmetic as in the US consumes 20 million barrels of oil per day which is 7 billion barrels per year which means 38 billion barrels of reserves is not that much (and should be saved for a rainy day - or for more useful things than burning it).

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 02:04:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I mean basic arithmetic in the sense of - let's try this as a multiple choice -

There is almost no oil left. Should you:

  1. Deal with this realistically by cutting down on consumption and making plans to cut down even more?
  2. Give money to Newt, blame the Democrats and whine a lot?
  3. Repeat that the US is the greatest country in the world and that it should use its God-given oil reserves, even though you have no idea how big they are?
  4. Apply to be Newt's secretary?

Thinking about it, there could be some mileage [1] in a pop quiz viral along these lines.

[1] Not literally, obviously, now that it's too late for that.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 02:21:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And Newt's a "green conservative" like I'm a fucking astronaut.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 02:12:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The NYT requires free registration but not so the IHT (who the fuck does the NYT think they're fooling with this?), so let's go with the IHT version:

High gas prices weigh heaviest on rural U.S. (June 9, 2008)

Gasoline prices reached a national average of $4 a gallon for the first time over the weekend, adding more strain to motorists across the country.

But the pain is not being felt uniformly. Across broad swaths of the South, Southwest and the upper Great Plains, the combination of low incomes, high gas prices and heavy dependence on pickup trucks and vans is putting an even tighter squeeze on family budgets.

Here in the Mississippi Delta, some farm workers are borrowing money from their bosses so they can fill their tanks and get to work. Some are switching jobs for shorter commutes.

No maps, though.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 02:09:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Map here.  So ha.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 02:10:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
They need to make cartograms for those.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 02:13:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Looks a lot like a map of the distribution of people of Scots-Irish descent.  An opportunity?

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 05:29:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Just what we needed: turn the price of gas into identity politics.

Not "we need to get out of oil dependency together" but "those effette latte liberals from big cities are screwing us".

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 05:53:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That should not be the intent, Mig.  But too many of these folks have for too long unthinkingly supported the Republicans.  As LBJ said, after signing the Civil Rights legislation: "We may have lost the south for a generation."  Two generations have passed.  Attitudes have changed. It is high time to get some of these folks back.  An appeal to their self interest and their sense of fairness, which has been perverted by the "Southern Strategy," might be effective now.

If 20-30% of them could be peeled off it could change the dynamics of many contests.  In the end, their identity baggage would be no worse than that of any of the other ethnic groups that traditionally support Democrats. Not all populist appeals need be evil.  IMHO it is worth a try.  The bigger the tent, the less influence any individual constituent has.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 10:20:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So what policy proposal do you want to try to sway these folks? A large number of us here are against fuel subsidies.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jun 10th, 2008 at 02:26:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I propose precisely the policies that ET has proposed.  Don't jump to false conclusions.  We need wind power where ever it is cost effective.  We need to give up on the idea that we can drill our way out of this problem, despite the fact that so many of these people have populated the oil patch.  Their children need better access to education, along with blacks, Native Americans and Hispanics.  We need massive investment in re-making our infrastructure to a low carbon model.

The American population, along with the Scots-Irish, need to be brought to the understanding that continual, blind support of Big Oil's agenda will only drag the entire nation down a giant dry hole.  They need to see that continuing to bail out Wall Street will do the same.  It could well be that no amount of money will save them from their folly.  It is a classic case of throwing good money after bad and the cure being worse than the disease.  Let those who created the mess pay instead of transferring the cost to the victims.

Get out of Iraq. It may well be that the only way stability can return to Iraq before the USA goes broke is via an Iraqi strongman who will do things that we can't do, despite Bush's best effort at playing fascist thug.  I don't favor sudden and complete withdrawal, but we must abandon the idea of permanent bases and quickly withdraw most, if not all of the troops.  Should Europe be able to broker an agreement with Turkey that would enable a de facto partition, that might be the best resolution.  And we must take proper care of wounded and damaged veterans numbering well over 200,000, if you include TBI and PTSD.

Taken together, such policies may well attract more than 30% of the "Scots-Irish vote."  And it is not just simple minded demographics.  Most people in the South are of a variety of backgrounds.  I count English, Welch, Scots-Irish, an Ulster woman  great grandmother, Cherokee, and probably Dutch. Others include French, and German.  But the cultural atmosphere has been strongly influenced by the Scots-Irish. It might be better termed "The Redneck Nation," as Cockneys and Nories who were transported en lieu of execution readily acquired red necks doing field work in the south, while many others, such as myself, take a tan just fine, due to American Indian heritage.

Thanks for responding.  I was beginning to wonder if some, not necessarily yourself, would rather see Obama  win without redneck support than with it.  While I agree that the most important thing is that he win, I think it would be very short sighted to write off this group.  The larger the majority, the greater independence a party has from the demands of any one group.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Jun 10th, 2008 at 09:37:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, maybe you can help me out here.
I propose precisely the policies that ET has proposed.  Don't jump to false conclusions.  We need wind power where ever it is cost effective.  We need to give up on the idea that we can drill our way out of this problem, despite the fact that so many of these people have populated the oil patch.  Their children need better access to education, along with blacks, Native Americans and Hispanics.  We need massive investment in re-making our infrastructure to a low carbon model.
Drew has linked to maps by the NYT on the impact of oil prices by county. The county that spends the highest fraction of its income on gas is Wilcox County, Alabama. Wikipedia has the census data on Wilcox County: 13 thousand people on 2500 square kilometres. The County seat is a town of 2250 and maybe one other town in the county has more than 500 people. Google maps satellite pictures show a mosaic of shades of green and ochre indicating it's divided up into farms. I'm guessing maybe up to 1/2 of the population of the county lives in the towns and he rest live on farms, with houses a kilometre away from each other in some areas?

The population of the county has a strong gender bias (100:80 female-to-male ratio above age 18: 20% of the men have left to work elesewhere) and a large african-american population (70%). 12% of households are elderly people living alone.

Do most people commute to nearby (77 miles) Montgomery to work? What do people grow on those farms? Do they own the farms? Can the county be food-selfsufficient? How would you reorganize the economy of the county to be less  dependent on oil? Can the farmers grow their own biodiesel for their farm machines and rely on a (new) network of buses for transportation? And so on.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jun 10th, 2008 at 10:26:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I have seen articles in the Arkansas Democrat Gazette on this subject.  At present it makes more sense for some to drop out of the work force than to commute.  I have never set foot in Mississippi or Alabama, and I don't know about landholding patterns. My guess is that most are living in rural rentals and that the house is in bad shape and the rent set at what they can just afford on SS.  A lot of these families rely on Granny's SS to pay the rent & utilities for an extended family.  They probably have a garden and put up preserves for the winter.  They probably keep chickens.

What to do for them?  These folks would be obvious recipients for aid derived from energy taxes, as proposed by Jerome, or for more indirect taxes such as windfall taxes on energy companies.  Several things would help: low cost financing to enable purchase of motor scooters, bicycles and adult tricycles for rural families, (this is the same density as during the 19th and the first half of the 20th centuries when the transportation was by mule), money for road maintenance  and improvement, (a lot of dirt and gravel roads in these areas, as in Arkansas), some kind of financial subsidy for recreating commons on which rural folk could run a couple of head of livestock, a system of worker's hostels in areas where work is available and attention by law enforcement to see that they are not routinely shaken down by thugs, especially in centers of work, would be desirable.

A plug-in hybrid or two used as  rural taxies and paid for out of County Social Services budgets and employing locals as drivers at minimum wage would help,               especially for medical appointments. A lot of this type of poverty is straight out of Michael Harrington's The Other America, 1963.

I doubt that Wilcox County, Alabama is a significant retirement destination, as is northern Arkansas.  Most of the able bodied who are willing to work have moved away, although they may return when down on their luck.

Jesus reputedly said "the poor you shall always have with you."  Between the Catholic Church's position on contraception and Neo-Classical Economics we seem to be insuring that we don't make that a false statement.  And that was during a time when solutions seemed more readily available.  No good answers for many of "the least of these."

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Jun 10th, 2008 at 01:58:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, the Delta is largely working-class black.  Slave and sharecropper descendants.  Many are still sharecroppers.  Border towns in the Southwest don't look well either.  Similar story in both cases: They're dirt-poor.

The Scots-Irish are mainly in Appalachia and the midlands in the South.  Seems to be a mixed bag there.  Big cities look okay.  Rural areas are in trouble.

The lower South, which I believe is more English than Scots-Irish, seems to be the part getting hit.

Really, it's just the inland rural areas that don't really have much going on economically.  Bad jobs, low incomes, car-dependent.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 05:56:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia, North Carolina, Arkansas, Oklahoma, much of Texas, New Mexico and Colorado have significant Scots-Irish populations.  The Dems go after every other ethnic group.  Combine some Scots-Irish with black, with Hispanic, with Native American and it could tip an election.

I was born in Texas, grew up in Oklahoma, lived in Arizona and California and retired to Arkansas.  My ancestors came through Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, Indiana, Missouri, Arkansas, Kansas, Indian Territory,(AKA Oklahoma), and Texas.  I know my own. Many are ripe for the taking.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 10:31:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And, yeah, my grandfather was a sharecropper and rural teamster.  Born 1850 around Nashville, died 1933 in Northern Oklahoma.  My father was born in 1910 in Northern Oklahoma.  Both sets of grandparents were in the Territories before they were officially opened for settlement. Proper Sooners: "there sooner than they outer been."  I am of Cherokee descent on my father's mother's side.  None of this is unusual in this area.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 10:38:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There was a diary on Daily Kos rec. list the other day from someone who lives in, I believe, S.W. Virginia. He said a lot of the locals there were talking about voting for Obama; they were disgusted with Bush.
I think the diary was called "I voted for Bush twice; Obama will be the next president."

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Tue Jun 10th, 2008 at 02:49:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's a poverty map.  Especially rural poverty.
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 07:04:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The poverty map is this one.

The median income by county has a range from $17k to $98k? Now that is fucked up.

Then again, the EU is equally fucked up: the distribution of GDP/head by region ranges from <15% of EU average to >125% which is a range of at least x8. But we don't pretend to be a single country.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 07:11:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Then again, the EU is equally fucked up: the distribution of GDP/head by region ranges from <15% of EU average to >125% which is a range of at least x8. But we don't pretend to be a single country.

Sure, but the new member states are catching up rather quickly! I was in Poland last week and I saw the change from two years ago. And the numbers confirm:

Poland: Inflation and wage growth ease a bit

The Polish Statistical Office has published consumer price inflation (CPI) and wage growth numbers for inflation for March. Polish inflation eased to 4.1% y/y in March from 4.2% y/y. This was a bit lower than the consensus expectation and our expectation of 4.2% y/y. Wage growth eased to 10.2% y/y from 12.8%y/y below our expectation of 10.8% y/y and the consensus expectation of 11.1%. Similarly, employment growth surprised a bit on the low side, growing 5.8% y/y – a bit below our expectation and the consensus expectation of 5.9% y/y.


"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 07:49:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thankfully there is no county-sized district across all of Europe - regions are much larger - or the spread would be much larger.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 08:40:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Uh, yes, I can click on tabs.  But look at the similarities in the patterns between the poverty map and the gas-price-impact map.
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Tue Jun 10th, 2008 at 01:02:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Because the range of median incomes is 6x but the range of fuel prices is only 30% so that the range of gas expenditure is necessarily strongly correlated with median income.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jun 10th, 2008 at 02:38:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I posted that article in the last Salon, but it did not get any response at all.  I get the feeling that only thing we have to say to people with low incomes who rely on vehicles for work (either for operation or commute) is the fuel equivalent of "Let them cake", "Life's a bitch" and "Suck it up."  Not really helpful, and hardly compassionate.

Now Obama says:

I'll make oil companies like Exxon pay a tax on their windfall profits, and we'll use the money to help families pay for their skyrocketing energy costs and other bills.

He will be accused of pandering to American on the bottom of the economic ladder.  But the truth is, there are many who are truly hurting under the energy prices.  And except for the a payroll-carbon tax swap which I mentioned in that previous comment, I have yet to hear of any other constructive progressive response to this pressing issue.

... all progress depends on the unreasonable mensch.
(apologies to G.B. Shaw)

by marco on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 03:06:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Agreed.  Unfortunately, it turns into a massive hit on areas that had largely escaped the housing bubble, too.

Now Obama says

He's been saying that for months.  Part of the revenue goes into green energy infrastructure, part pays for his lower-end tax cut on income.  (Let's call it what it is, though: a back-door gas tax hike.  It's the right strategy, but he needs to balance it with ways of helping working people.)  Remember the fight over the gas-tax holiday?  I don't think the press is going to hit him for pandering, because the press backed him up against Hillary and McCain on the tax cut, and he seems to have actually won some respect among the reporters for it.  In fact, the press seems to be covering Obama ripping into McCain on the economy.  He's done a great job of seizing the narrative as the general election gets revved up.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 03:49:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
  1. a windfall tax will be paid by the consumers, in the end. It's a discreet way to push a gas tax, which is why I don't fight it too much, but it's hardly a progressive tax;

  2. I'm always saying that we should tax oil consumption and use the money to directly compensate the poorest - in ways not linked to their gas consumption. Lower payroll taxes, a check per person, you name it. Just make them have a big incentive to use less gas, while not being too penalised in the transition.


In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 04:44:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm always saying that we should tax oil consumption and use the money to directly compensate the poorest - in ways not linked to their gas consumption.

Commie! Why do you hate freedom? Obama shill!
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 04:47:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You say that like it's a bad thing.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 07:25:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And ask if Newt's still drilling his secretary.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 11:22:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This is not the new left wing narrative you are looking for.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 04:08:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I thought liberals were reality-based.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 04:21:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not necessarily: the platonic ideal of telling lies to control the masses lives on across the political spectrum. Long live our new Liberal Philosopher King masters!
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 04:45:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
reality based involves explanations, not elitist dismissals.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 05:03:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Refer to my other comment.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 05:19:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Indeed, but don't open with "you're screwed."

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 05:46:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I never said there's nothing they can do. I did say there's nothing they can do to bring oil prices down.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 05:50:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Welcome back to ET, Spatz!

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 11:21:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You could point out that Iraq holds more than 100 billion barrels, and that if it hadn't been for a certain war taking most of that production off the market, prices could easily be at least $25/bl lower.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 01:33:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Jim Webb Story - The New York Review of Books
Jim Webb, the junior senator from Virginia, who defeated the incumbent Republican George Allen in 2006, is or has been: a best-selling author; a screenwriter (Rules of Engagement, and another in the works); an Emmy-winning documentary producer; the author of a large number of articles and book reviews; an Annapolis graduate; a boxer (he lost a legendary and controversial championship match at Annapolis against Oliver North[1] ); an autodidact who grew up a military man's son and indifferent student but on his own became a passionate reader of history; a first lieutenant and Marine rifle platoon commander with Delta Company in Vietnam, where he won the Navy Cross for heroism (the second-highest award in the Navy and the Marines), the Silver Star, two Bronze Stars, and two Purple Hearts; a graduate of Georgetown Law School who then worked on the staff of the House Veterans Affairs Committee; a teacher of English literature at the Naval Academy; and an assistant secretary of defense and then secretary of the Navy during the Reagan administration. Webb resigned from that position after losing a long battle to block a reduction in the size of the Navy at a time when the Pentagon was under orders to cut its budget. In The Reagan Diaries, the former president wrote, "I don't think Navy was sorry to see him go."

Webb was a warrior-intellectual, interested, he writes in A Time to Fight, in "all the aspects of war"--as a defense analyst "consumed by the notions of military strategy" and "as a novelist and journalist covering the military and writing about wars and their societal impact." After he was forced by serious injuries to leave Vietnam, he continued what he calls his "self-induced professional education," concerning himself with the longer-term consequences of wars, as well as how to prevent them. "I began to think harder, in a different way, and I began to write," Webb says in his new book. "The former boxer and infantry officer had learned how to fight with his brain."

Re Migeru's diary about What can be expected of Europe in Iraq,  I will be paying very close attention to anything Webb might have to say about where we go and what we do in Iraq.  His coverage of the Marines in Beirut in 1983 as a PBS journalist won an Emmy.

We all bleed the same color.

by budr on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 11:10:38 AM EST
And, of course, see Introducing...Jim Webb by rg on May 31st, 2008.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 11:14:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
He'd be an interesting and logical complement to Obama, but I still say Webb isn't going to get us anything that we don't already have.

I'd love to be wrong, though.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 11:25:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ack, I should have posted it there.

We all bleed the same color.
by budr on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 12:24:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If Jim Webb is the VP I'm going to defect.  I don't want leaders who are Democrats because they don't like this war, I want leaders who are Democrats because they are actually liberals.  

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 02:46:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Defect to who?

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 02:47:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
?
??

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 02:52:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Jim Webb Story - The New York Review of Books
Jim Webb's route to becoming a Democratic senator from Virginia was circuitous, and his party affiliation has taken a meandering path. Like much of his family, he had been a Democrat. But he quit the party over Jimmy Carter's grant of amnesty for those who had avoided the draft, and he supported Ronald Reagan in 1980 and George W. Bush (and George Allen) in 2000. But as he was doing research for his book about the Scots-Irish, he developed an admiration for Andrew Jackson and realized that at heart he himself was a Jacksonian populist. Jackson's working-class people were his own people as well. He also found himself becoming alienated from the Republican Party over the Iraq war and over the party's rigid positions on social issues. (Webb supports abortion rights and civil unions, but he's not a down-the-line liberal. Like his people in southern Virginia, he opposes gun control laws.)

Webb is not a Republican and never was, really.  Even when he served in Reagan's cabinet he was a free thinker who spoke his mind, often at odds with the party line.  He is in essence the quintessential Reagan Democrat.

We all bleed the same color.

by budr on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 06:26:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Just whipping up some pasta, with a kind of spinach and apricot meat sauce. My youngest and joint-dearest is here for a week. She just loves my experimental food - or so she says. Well not that experimental - I've done it with great success before, but never with black salt and nutmeg. I love both of them. The spices and the daughters.


You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 11:22:10 AM EST
When we were little and my parents would leave us alone, my brother and I would take totally random, never meant to go together ingredients, mix them up and dare each other to eat our creations.  Why do I get the impression this is your idea of cuisine?

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 01:57:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well there was a pro cook present tonight who praised it to the heavens (oh sorry). If you eat around the world you will find amazing combinations. Have you ever had muktuk and brandy, monkey brain and goybada?

And of course it has nothing to do with mixing things together raw. The cooking processes change tastes. The skill is in cooking.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 02:10:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How closely related are the consumption of monkeys' brains and ... cannibalism?  Too close for me!

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 02:31:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Interesting question!

Can humans get a prion disease from eating monkey's brains?  I haven't the foggiest.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 02:42:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Synapses contain proteins.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 03:42:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Have you actually eaten monkey? (Don't answer that.)

Maybe you have mad primates disease?

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 03:47:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have. In the Matto Grosso. And Muktuk with the Inuit of Alaska. As a documentary film-maker and honoured guest of such cultures, it is not easy to refuse. I ate one of the strongest raw and whole chilis with the Zhukamai Indians because I was challenged by these warriors. They laughed till they farted at my tears and choking, but afterwards, when I had eaten it, I had their respect and cooperation.

And yes, I maybe am mad, but it is not what I have eaten.

In a German mosque we were filming in for a few days, I joined a regular dinner that was free to all in the mosque. The rice was cooked in an enormous pot - to feed maybe 50. I got the hard caramelized crust of rice from the bottom of the cauldron that was closest to the fire. I wasn't too happy, but eat it graciously. It was only later I was told that that was a great honour to receive.

The whole experience in Hamburg, meeting with fighters from Afghanistan etc, was to totally change my view of Islam. I found it incredibly gentle and open - and worthy of respect.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 04:04:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You can read all about it in 'The tribe that hides from man' by Adrian Cowell - the leader of the expedition.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 04:07:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The tribe that hides from man


You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 04:10:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hm.  I thought it was an Asian thing.  Frankly, I thought it was a legend, scooping the brains out of a live monkey's head.  

Still far too cannibalistic for me...   I think politeness is overrated in even the most mundane situations.  I would definitely have no problem offending someone by declining their monkey meal.  

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 04:22:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No-one mentioned live monkeys. That would be far far beyond the limits of my socially exploitative politeness

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 04:28:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm leaving work early to go see the football game. But I'm getting up at 6am again tomorrow to ctach yet another plane.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 11:38:11 AM EST
If you like a lot of running around and no scoring. But it looks like the Netherlands are going to trounce Italy, so I'm happy.

Il faut se dépêcher d'agir, on a le monde à reconstruire
by dconrad (drconrad {arobase} gmail {point} com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 03:25:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
3-0 Well deserved. A much more pleasant game to watch altogether (at least the last half-hour, I missed the rest).

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 04:46:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
3:0!!!

As for van Nistelrooy's 1:0, even I believed that it was an off-side, while the pro-Italy commentator on the channel I watched was raging - however, in half-time, a referee expert enlightned TV viewers: Panucci was off the baseline (he flew out when Buffon boxed the ball towards Kuyt), in which case the goalie must be counted as last man.

However, the Dutch players not only out-played, but definitely outdid the Italians in tactical or just plain brutal fouls...

:: :: :: :: ::

Overall, the Group of Death developed according to my expectations: France with trouble at the goal as I feared, Romania strong, Italy handicapped in defense, Netherlands with something to prove. I still expect France and Netherlands to qualify.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 04:50:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Eh? I dont think that is what Law 11 says or means

TheFA.com - Law 11 - Offside

A player is in an offside position if:
  • he is nearer to his opponents' goal line than both the ball and the second last opponent
  • A player is not in an offside position if:
  • he is in his own half of the fi eld of play or
  • he is level with the second last opponent or
  • he is level with the last two opponents

but the Dutch were awesome tonight.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 06:49:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The German commentators I heard said that Panucci still counted and called it something like the rule that no one knows.
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 07:20:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
One step closer to:

I think I'm going to annoy people with this image for as long as the Dutch are winning.

One of those moments I really resent not being in the Netherlands now.

by Nomad on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 05:02:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Gulfnews: Pope to host Bush in unusual Vatican setting

Vatican City: Pope Benedict will unusually host talks with US President George W. Bush in a restored medieval tower on Friday, to repay him for a warm reception at the White House, the Vatican said.

The pope usually receives heads of state in his private study in the Apostolic Palace, overlooking St Peter's Square.

But Vatican spokesman Federico Lombardi said the change was to repay Bush for "the cordiality of the meeting at the White House" when the pope visited the United States in April.

by Fran on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 11:43:47 AM EST
The Pope doesn't want to soil his private study.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 12:29:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
One can but hope

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 06:52:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
When will Bush visit the AAAS?
by asdf on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 08:41:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
yummy birthday dinner last night. I can't afford nice places but fortunately a few of my friends can, and see them as good presents for food obsessed me. On the down side - mislaying my glasses as I came home buzzed and soaked, straining my eyes for hours looking for them, trying to figure out if near sightedness or darkness (prescription sunglasses) is more of a handicap. Turns out I'd managed to place them behind some books on a shelf.
by MarekNYC on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 12:14:56 PM EST
If you're going to do the yummy dinner reporting you can't be that coy: what was it?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 12:21:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Totally random off-topic related to nothing question:

Has anyone here ever had a weird reaction to curry (the turmeric, I assume)?  I think I may be allergic to it.  I've been looking about the internets and can only find the healing effects of this, but no negative side effects.  I think it is an allergy, but I don't break out in hives or anything.  It's not entirely unpleasant, but it is a little worrisome.  Maybe a circulatory thing.  I get lightheaded and ... how to explain, somewhat stoned feeling and numb after I eat curry.  No one else I know has this reaction to curry and I can't find any references to it.  

It's been crazy hot here, so I went to the store and got things for salads: beet and goat cheese salad, Mediterranean lentil salad and ... curry chicken salad.  I made the curry chicken salad first.  It's really delicious.  But it makes me feel weird.  

What is up with that?

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 01:51:38 PM EST
You didn't eat tomatoes, did you?  I keep hearing things about tomatoes.  Salmonella, I guess?

Otherwise, sounds excellent.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 01:55:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not salmonella.  Only happens with curry, and always happens with curry.  It's the curry.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 01:58:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was just kidding you.  Colman raises an interesting point: Perhaps an MSG reaction?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 02:09:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The symptoms sound right.  But bad chinese food doesn't give me this reaction.  I would not put it past a local indian joint to add msg to their food, but the stuff I make at home is ostensibly organic.  Hm...

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 02:12:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
but the stuff I make at home is ostensibly organic.

Unless they've replaced it with the fake stuff secretly.  Forward it over to 20/20.  It'll give Stossel something to do besides griping about liberals and global warming.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 02:15:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Coming up tonight:  Is Whole Foods making you sick?  And is your neighbor a child molester?  You might be surprised at the answers we've found.  Stay tuned for life saving information."

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 02:24:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That sounds like a MSG reaction to me.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 02:00:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd be miffed to find out Whole Foods puts MSG in their curry powder.  Like I responded to Drew, it only happens when I eat curry.  

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 02:10:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Why miffed?  It adds that extra oomph.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 02:13:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Glutamate occurs naturally in foods used as flavour enhancers, from tomatoes to parmesan cheese to fermented soy and bean paste (miso, for instance) yeast extracts (marmite) etc...

So it is not out of the question that curry powder has a high free glutamate concentration even if no MSG has been added to it.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 02:17:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Mig says it's not MSG, since I eat things like parmesan and tomato sauce and miso soup regularly without symptoms.

May be the endorphins.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 02:27:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Curry Addiction.  There's a BBC human interest story just begging to be done.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 02:31:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I sometimes get a curry hangover. When I haven't drunk anything.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 02:36:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There's something it it akin to a mind-altering substance.  I just know it.  Facts, shmacts.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 02:38:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Turmeric is specific for strep throat.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 04:16:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Have you tried to google 'turmeric allergy'? I get some hits to "anti-allergy properties" but also some on allergy to turmeric and curcumin.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 02:28:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Few side effects have been reported when turmeric is used at recommended doses. There are reports of skin rash and mild giddiness.

I have that without the rash.  That's the thing.  The effects aren't negative, just weird.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 02:34:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Everyone is different.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 02:36:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Wikipedia: RIsks and side effects of curcumin
Kawanishi et al. (2005) of NCBI remarked that curcumin, like many antioxidants, can be a "double-edged sword" where in the test tube, anti-cancer and antioxidant effects may be seen in addition to pro-oxidant effects. Carcinogenic effects are inferred from interference with the p53 tumor suppressor pathway, an important factor in human colon cancer. Carcinogenic and LD50 tests in mice and rats, however, have failed to establish a relationship between tumorogenesis and administration of curcumin in turmeric oleoresin at >98% concentrations. This may prove curcumin medicinally useful as it helps activate p53[citation needed]. When a cell is inhibited by cancer the concentrations of p53 increase, helping cells defend against cancer mechanisms[citation needed]. But it may also suppress p53 levels, preventing cells from initiating defensive mechanisms, a response seen only in certain diseases[citation needed].
Clinical studies in humans with high doses (>2-12 grams) curcumin supplementation have shown some subjects reporting diarrhea and nausea, however curcumin has also been indicated for these conditions as well.

Curcumin Analogs:

S. Mishra et al. have synthesized various conjugates of curcumin. And it was found that curcumin bioconjugates containing glycine, alanine, and/or piperic acid were found to show improved antimicrobial[24] properties over curcumin, suggesting increased cellular uptake or reduced metabolism of these bioconjugates resulting in increased concentration inside the infected cells. Study of pro- and anti-oxidant properties of different bioconjugates of curcumin and testing their apoptotic potential on tumor cells. [26] Various curcumin based natural antimalarial agent's viz. pyrazole, isoxazole, substituted pyrazole and Knoevenagel condensates of curcumin have been designed and synthesized. It was found that some of the curcumin analogs showed better activity (in nanomolar range) as compared to the parent molecule against malarial parasite; P. falciparum.

(my emphasis)

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 02:33:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No upset stomach here.  

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 02:36:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Curry is a generic name for a combination of spices so you need to go through and figure-out which ingredient in which curry is the problem:

(From wikipedia)

Curry powder, also known as masala powder, is a spice mixture of widely varying composition developed by the British during the Raj as a means of approximating the taste of Indian cuisine at home. Masala refers to spices, and this is the name given to the thick and pasty sauce based on a combination of spices with ghee (clarified butter), butter, palm oil or coconut milk. Most commercial curry powders available in Britain, the U.S. and Canada, rely heavily on ground turmeric, in turn producing a very yellow sauce. Lesser ingredients in these Western yellow curry powders are often coriander, cumin, fenugreek, mustard, chili, black pepper and salt. It should be reiterated that curry powders and pastes produced and consumed in India are extremely diverse; some red, some yellow, some brown; some with five spices and some with as many as 20 or more. Besides the previously mentioned spices, other commonly found spices in different curry powders in India are allspice, white pepper, ground mustard, ground ginger, cinnamon, roasted cumin, cloves, nutmeg, mace, green cardamom seeds or black cardamom pods, bay leaves and coriander seeds.


She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 02:37:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, of course, but most of the other spices are more common, or more innocuous.  Which is why I thought it would be the tumeric, since it is pretty obvious then you are eating something yellow...  

In theory it could be the fenugreek.  

Though I kinda like the idea that all the spices together create the endorphin effect.  

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 02:41:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There are only some foodstuffs that contain molecules of the right shape to enter an endorphin receptor, or cause a reaction that leads to the release of endorphins. Both influence the opioidergic system. Chili appears to be an example of the latter.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 03:26:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Curcuma is only one of many ingredients in curry and the mixtures, depending where they come from, have different ingredients. Some others that might provoke an allergic reaction can be, chillies and red pepper, or also curry leaves.

Sometimes it is not one ingredient that can cause the reaction, but the mixture. Things that by themselves to not cause a reaction, can do that when combined with some other stuff.

by Fran on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 02:50:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Again, this is a curry-specific problem.  So I either 1) have to single out the ingredients I only get in curry (rules out the chiles and peppers) which leads me to the tumeric and or fenugreek allery or 2) assume it is the combination itself that produces the effect, a la the "curry addiction" endorphin theory.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 02:56:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Why does it rule out the chillies and red peppers - they are often part of the hot curry varieties.
by Fran on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 03:19:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Because I eat chiles, peppers all the time in other foods and do not have the same reaction.  I eat a lot of salsa.  When the weather is really hot, sometimes it is the only thing I eat...

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 03:25:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is salsa made of dried or fresh chili? The properies of chilies change somewhat when dried.
by Fran on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 03:30:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Roasted, but sometimes dried and rehydrated, sometimes fresh.  There are many different ways to make salsa.  

I don't know what it is like in Switzerland, but the one thing I craved the most in Russia was Mexican food.  You must understand, even up here in the North, Mexican food is so common in America that I would say most Americans eat it on a fairly regular basis.  Perhaps different chili peppers are used in Indian food, but at some point capsicum is capsicum, right?  I also eat Thai food regularly and Paprika now and then and will put Cayenne in all kinds of things for a kick.  Peppers are a staple in my diet, in all kinds of shapes and forms and preparations.  So it would be strange if it was simply the chili peppers in the curry that was the culprit.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 03:44:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't know about Switzerland, but mexican food is pretty rare in the UK. there's more S American than central.

When I was in LA I had mexican at least every other day cos I'd never had the opportunity before.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jun 10th, 2008 at 06:45:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I can think of a few Mexican restaurants near me, although not on the level of chinese restaurants etc There are loads of Mexican food 'kits' in the supermarket which are popular so I guess i am surprised there are not more restaurants.
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Wed Jun 11th, 2008 at 02:23:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Doesn't chili stimulate the release of endorphins?
by Sassafras on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 05:35:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is there anything else you could be adding to the curry?

Allergy to leaf coriander/cilantro isn't all that uncommon, apparently.  I don't know if I'm allergic, as such, but any significant quantity makes me woozy, then I'm sick.

by Sassafras on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 05:44:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I originally posted this on this diary by Jerome, but it should have been on the open thread. So I'm reposting here. Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on this story:

Business bank Lehman Brothers, new victim of the financial crisis

The American business bank Lehman Brothers has announced, Monday June 9, an historic net loss of $2.774 billion (1.76 billion euros) for the fiscal period of March-May 2008. The losses have obliged them to raise $6 billion ($3.8 billion euros) to strengthen their financial position. In the same period last year, the financial institution recorded a gain of $1.273 billion (810 million euros).

Alarmist rumors about the company have been circulating for several weeks. ...

Does anyone think Lehman Brothers could be the next Bear Stearns?

Il faut se dépêcher d'agir, on a le monde à reconstruire

by dconrad (drconrad {arobase} gmail {point} com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 03:30:31 PM EST
See the comments in today's salon.

Lehman Brothers was already seen as the next domino by many people at the time of the Bear Stearns collapse. both are broker-dealer banks and specialised in the credit markets (in fact, Lehman Brothers is responsible for a lot of the development of the bond markets themselves - they ar a bond index provider, etc). In some ways Northern Rock mimicked the business model of both Bear and Lehman.

This one is back from last August barely weeks into the credit crisis:

Among Wall Street houses, Bear and Lehman are heavily dependent on the fixed-income markets, and that helps explain why their shares have performed particularly badly, down 31% and 26%, respectively. (Lehman shut its subprime lending unit and Bear closed two hedge funds with heavy exposure to that risky home-loan market.) It also is what caused them to fall out of favor with Moszkowski & Co. Citi will suffer from its exposure to all the leveraged buyouts that still need to be financed, the analysts reckon.
And this is from right after the Bear Stearns takeover by JP Morgan:
Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. fell in New York after customer withdrawals at Bear Stearns Cos. raised concern that other Wall Street firms may face cash shortages. Options trading signaled Lehman will keep dropping.
This one is from today. Note the title...

Forbes.com: Lehman's Bear Necessity

Lehman has tried to dispel the notion that it is a Bear Stearns situation by highlighting its capital and liquidity. At the holding company, liquidity rose to $45 billion in the second quarter, up from $34 billion in the first quarter. Bear Stearns crumbled in March, after a customer run on funds that sapped its liquidity in less than a week. The company has since been acquired by JPMorgan Chase  in a Federal Reserve-backed rescue.
Next after Lehman seems to be Citigroup... See this article from March, just before Bear failed.
Earlier in Bankruptcy Fears In Bear Stearns Options I noted that Lehman Brothers' balance sheet was levered 40 to 1.

Now I see Lehman cutting 5 percent of its work force.

...

The reason Lehman declined to comment is they are scared half to death. Lehman is leveraged to the hilt in much of the same garbage that is sinking Carlyle Capital.

You just have to google Bear and Lehman.


When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 03:56:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
dconrad:
Does anyone think Lehman Brothers could be the next Bear Stearns?

No.

J P Morgan are still digesting Bear Stearns. There won't be another similar heist by them just yet.

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 07:15:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hospitals: So where would you rather be ill? - Telegraph

After being treated in both French and UK hospitals, John Collyer has no doubt France is better

This is a tale of two fractured hips - and a tale of two health services. At the age of 67, I've been in the unusual situation of suffering the same injury twice - once on my left hip; once on my right. What makes this even more interesting is that on one occasion I was treated by the NHS and on the other by the French health service.

While the drugs I was given were more or less the same, the differing treatment I received raises questions about why we can't get it right in Britain, despite our astronomical spend on the NHS - questions that are particularly pertinent as the Government currently considers whether to bring in polyclinics.

Four years ago I fell off my bicycle outside my flat in west London and fractured my left hip. I called an ambulance, which arrived within 15 minutes and took me to a leading London teaching hospital. After arriving at around 4.30pm, I was admitted, assessed, X-rayed and operated on at midnight, under an epidural anaesthetic. So far, so good.

by Fran on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 03:34:07 PM EST
  1. In France, it's unsustainable, not a luxury they can afford for long
  2. in the UK, blame Brown


In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 04:50:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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