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Tuesday Open Thread

by Colman Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 10:19:39 AM EST

Are we late today?


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Apparently Migeru and I missed the note about the official FP away day. I'm assuming the others are relaxing in their secret cavern lair.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 10:21:28 AM EST
I'm back.  It wasn't much fun.  It stopped being a novelty to be squished in rush hour London when I was about 9.
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 03:52:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
just landed in Houston, customs went reasonably well (and friendly; a guy called Holy).

Am also quite happy to have been able to move my flight to Austin forward by 4 hours, so no long wait here for me!

I might even be at the hotel early enough to post something!

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 04:56:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You'll have to give me an opinion on Austin.  I've heard it's a great city.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 07:34:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
C'mon Drew, there are very few places in amurka as good as Austin.  Inependent music, spitze Tex-Mex, and a center of IndieFilm.  Willie Nelson, Richard Linklater, Lyle Lovett, and: it's not Dallas.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 08:18:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's hot, though. And filled with Texans...
by asdf on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 12:01:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
and friendly; a guy called Holy

And, yes, they're a modest lot down there, I've heard.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 07:41:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Mr Oliveman entered an ironmongery (hardware shop or ferreteria) and was told that 1 costed 0.5 euros, 12 costed 1 euro and 144 costed 1.5 euros.

What was he buying?

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 12:21:47 PM EST
logs?
by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 12:56:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
mmmhh like logarithmic or like tree?

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 01:12:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
eh, both, that's why it's funny. there are some constants involved too, but who cares about those??
by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 01:43:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well the 12 is important.. I guess 12^0 12 ^1 and 12^2

So it goes in 12 packs .. I guess...

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 05:39:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
fuses?
by Sassafras on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 01:10:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
why?

develop ...  do not know the answer

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 01:11:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude
by kcurie on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 01:11:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Numerals for house numbers.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 01:22:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You de Bonoed faster ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 02:27:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
GSEs?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 01:29:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
GSE? twahaaaaaat is that?

I know the progression seems american.. but it is not, it is world wide metric in ferreterias (and I do not know the answer, except that it sells in 12 units)..

In 12 units..GSE

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 02:41:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sorry, a GSE is a "Government-Sponsored Enterprise" in America (e.g., Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac).

I was making a joke about the two companies' stocks, and it was clearly a good one.

(hangs head in shame)

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 02:45:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I did not know but somehow I guessed...

Shadenfrauklichly nationalization.

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 05:40:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Obama or McCain this fall, our next president is going to be Ron Paul or a similar libertarian. Paul's brand of populism is the only populism that exists in the US today, and Americans are going to flock to it very soon.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 01:03:04 PM EST
Truthers, Rejoice!

In other election-related news, the Seattle Post-Intelligencer has an interesting response to the big hoopla over that New Yorker cover (I can hear the outrage from David Gregory now):

The difference between the two, of course, being that this one at least has truth to it.  St John is a confused old man, and Cindy McCain is a pill-popping, erm, "trollop" (although the "trollop" bit is not referenced, since that's a no-no, while attacking Michelle Obama has become routine).

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 01:27:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think a left wing populist can succeed in the US, but there aren't any around that are charismatic enough.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 01:33:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't think Ron Paul could get elected dogcatcher in 99% of the counties in America, especially given his past survivalist-type rants about blacks and gays and all that.  America has some obvious libertarian tendencies, but it's not a fundamentally libertarian country.

Look what happened to Bush when he suggested privatizing Social Security.  He didn't even get a bill written.

Beyond the foreign policy, on which I think someone like him could do well, I don't see his appeal.  Maybe capitalizing on the Fed and Wall Street's unholy alliance, but I think people's eyes would glaze over, and he'd simply come off sounding like he was a hundred years old.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 01:44:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, I'm trying to calibrate for a populace struggling through a depression, which is admittedly not much more than a guessing game.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 01:48:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually I think a depression makes the election of someone like Ron Paul even less likely.  People want security during times of crisis.  They want the government to do something.  Ron Paul would be the opposite of what most people would have in mind.  His message would be easily turned into basically telling the people, "Hey, go screw yourselves."  He'd be Herbert Hoover, but without even the half-assed effort.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 01:57:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think it's a knife edge between demanding socialist policies and attacking scapegoats.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 02:23:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Agreed.  Really, I think it's a lot of both, and the line between the two can be pretty blurry in the real world.  But I don't think scapegoating blacks/gays/Jews/Latinos/whatever would earn you much political capital outside of maybe 5% of the electorate these days.  Even the immigration stuff only appeals to about 25% of the electorate who really care about the borders, and they're all Republicans anyway.  Back in the early-20th Century it would've worked, but nowadays you'd have to scapegoat -- oh, I dunno -- speculators.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 02:37:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The loss of Wellstone was truly tragic.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 02:11:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, it was, although Wellstone had his issues, too.  He voted in favor of the "Defense of Marriage Act," and, though right on the Iraq War, he didn't have a great aversion to the Team America: World's Policeman thing.  Also voted for the PATRIOT Act.  He was also pretty much in bed with AIPAC.

I wish we still had him, but the canonization of Wellstone among liberals really went too far.  He was a good senator, pretty reliable, but not the God of Pregressivism he's been made out to be.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 02:31:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... identify politics two-fer.

And he's only a moderate progressive populist. A radical populist would get completely hammered by "free media", which remember is bought and paid for by large corporations.


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 05:17:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Rumors now going around about Romney as McCain's VP...
by asdf on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 12:03:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]


When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 04:25:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
He's not very quick either:



Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 10:10:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's possible.  In fact, Romney might make the most sense from a regional perspective, but it would clearly be a defensive play.  It looks like Obama's doing incredibly well in the Mountain West, and what does the Mountain West have a lot of?  Mormons.  So I could see McCain choosing Romney in an effort to defend Nevada, Montana, Arizona, etc.

Plus, Romney's father was a big gun in Michigan, and even though McCain is now getting his ass kicked there, he might hope for Romney to bust up Obama's lead.

The downside to Romney is in the South, where there are, needless to say, not a whole helluva lot of Mormons, and where Mormons tend to be seen as a bizarre cult.  It might further depress conservative turnout, which McCain can't afford, given that Obama is registering new voters in such enormous numbers there, and given that we're probably going to see an explosion in turnout among blacks and young people, of whom there are many in the South.

McCain's lead in South Carolina -- the third-least-likely Obama pickup in the Deep South (behind Alabama and Louisiana) -- is down to single digits (6 in the latest Ras poll, and Ras has tended to underestimate Obama's final outcomes in the region).  If that's the story in SC, think of what the story might be turning into in Virginia, NC, Georgia, Mississippi, etc.

So he might be playing with fire going with Romney, but he might have no choice if it looks like O is going to clean his clock out in the West.  My sense is that, if he chooses Romney, he'll have decided, "Okay, I'm going to gamble and assume that I carry all those southern states."  Kind of like Florida, which McCain can't afford to defend because of the expense of playing in the Florida market (and, if he can't assume a win in Florida, the election's probably over anyway).

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 10:20:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Throngs of customers furious outside IndyMac Bank in 2nd day of federal takeover

Associated Press
Last update: July 15, 2008 - 10:59 AM

LOS ANGELES - Police ordered angry customers lined up outside an IndyMac Bank branch to remain calm or face arrest Tuesday as they tried to pull their money on the second day of the failed institution's federal takeover.

At least three police squad cars showed up early Tuesday as tensions rose outside the San Fernando Valley branch of Pasadena-based IndyMac.

Federal regulators seized Pasadena-based IndyMac on Friday and reopened the bank Monday under the control of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation. Deposits to $100,000 are fully insured by the FDIC.

Worried customers with deposits in excess of insured limits flooded IndyMac Bank branches on Monday, demanding to withdraw as much money as they could or get answers about the fate of their funds.

When it was clear some wouldn't get in before closing, FDIC employees apparently took down names and told them to return Tuesday.

Other customers began lining up at 1:30 a.m. Tuesday, and by dawn, tensions escalated because people on the list were getting priority.

By 8 a.m., about 50 people on the list waited in one line and many more waited in another. Five people were allowed in at a time.

Customers became infuriated, and police told them they could be arrested if they didn't remain calm.

Police stood by at some other branches around Southern California but there were no other reports of problems.



you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 01:29:16 PM EST
I really really do not want to seem shadenfrauklichly :)

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 02:44:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
kcurie:
shadenfrauklichly :)

What do women have to do with it? :-)

by Fran on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 02:49:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What do you mean?

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 03:58:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by Sassafras on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 05:14:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh it was a joke about Jerome not knowing exactly how to write the german word...and I thought that making the joke about shaden and frau and adding the double k would sound funny...

Bottomline is... we told you so... and osmetimes you feel fine being right though.....some people will gethurt and not necessarily the rich ones.

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 05:38:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Where is everyone?  Bit quiet around here...

You know, I was looking at these "Anglo Disease" diaries, and while I don't question the problem, I've been wondering what "Anglo" means to those using the term.  Wikipedia notes that it's not a technical term.  In America, it's most often used to denote ethnicity.  I think I've just decided I get the heebeejeebees when I hear and ethnic descriptor paired with the word "disease," esp. when it's not talking about an actual physical ailment particular to a certain gene pool.  I don't know how to elaborate without upsetting people who, I think, have the right intentions, or take away from the substance of the argument.  It's just the label.  It's starting to creep me out.  Has anyone else had these thoughts?  Probably not...  I suspect it's just not an ethnically-charged word over there.  

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 02:39:55 PM EST
My personal interpretation is that it relates to the 'Anglosphere' as pictured by conservative commentators on both sides of the Atlantic (though Anglo disease mostly has to do with the UK, and the USA, and perhaps Ireland -- not Canada, Australia or NZ). It's also a riff off Dutch disease. Dutch is of course also an ethnicity, but that does not come to mind. What's meant to come to mind is a picture of economic malaise related to a specific set of imbalances (in the Dutch case, resource endowment, in the US/UK case, skewed development creating a bloated financial services sector).
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 02:55:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, it refers to people of English descent here.

Obviously Jerome and others mean it to refer to all we children of the British Empire -- or at least the largely-white ones -- and our Glorious Motherland.

Even though I think the plurality of Americans have their roots in Germany and Ireland rather than England.

And even though the Angles were German.

So it's the Germans' fault when you really think about it.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 02:56:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
yup, i've had a bit o' that too, poemless. that fact that it's coined by a french critic doesn't really help in that regard either...

but you gotta call a spade a spade sometimes, and rack my brain as i do, (well sometimes!), i can't find a better moniker yet, and meanwhile this one gains traction, and conveys the message once unpacked, which i read to be more concern (ok, panic), that this horrible phenomenon is metastising, wherever its provenance.

call it fred, it still sucks-

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 04:37:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think it refers to those countries, led by the U.S. and the U.K. that embrace the neo-liberal economic approach which involves less regulation of business, and in general a dog eat dog approach to the functioning of their societies. This approach until recently had been rejected by France, Germany and most other European countries.
So, if you;re about to lose your health coverage, because you've lost your job, that's part of the Anglo disease. A very nasty disease by the way.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 04:42:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So, if you;re about to lose your health coverage, because you've lost your job, that's part of the Anglo disease. A very nasty disease by the way.

very, very nasty...evil in fact, terminal. no known cure except vigorous and extended blogging sessions to bail out tradmed lies and keep the mental transom above the waves.

crapaganda is the froth, faustian corruption the beer.

(cf Blair, Tony) oh the irony of having hamas guarding him from scary brown people he just may have p-o'd.

into the breach, tone! don't forget your crusader flag, you have the pope's blessing now! save the heathens!

</italian overblown hysteria>

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 05:02:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm pretty clear about what it is about, what the term is describing.

It's the label I find problematic.  

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 05:17:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's the label I find problematic.

Well, yes, but "WASP Disease" didn't have the same ring to it.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 07:38:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We've had this debate before... it's like when people said there was no such thing as the "anglo-saxon press".

If Jerome didn't want to get his writing noticed he'd use a neutral academic term such as financialisation - but as Nanne points out, it's more a case of stressing that financialisation has primarily weakened the UK and the US.

You could also call it the Ronnie and Maggie disease.

Hey, here's a diary title: "Fannie and Freddie, children of Ronnie and Maggie".

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 04:32:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
... of Cadel Evans in yellow.

Bloody hell, I forgot how hard Australian celebrations are on a person ... at least, the following day.


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 05:18:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
section on Iraq oil and gas potential - http://www.eia.doe.gov/cabs/Iraq/pdf.pdf. As recently as last Autumn, they had about a two-page summary that said something like 'oh by the way the western deserts of Iraq probably hold more oil than the rest of the country combined'. Now they say that more recent study by industry researchers indicates only 1/2-to-as-much-oil as the rest of the country.

My guess is that: 1) they realized the political content/implication of their former estimate; and 2) the "multinational"s involved ain't giving out real data, until they get their hooks firmly set.

paul spencer

by paul spencer (paulgspencer@gmail.com) on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 02:57:47 PM EST
just saw a good show on aljazeera about the media (listening post, highly recc'd) which talked about sarkozy's relationship with the french media.

moneyquote: sarko doesn't have the money like berlusconi to buy the media, so he's just taking it over.

what he just did would be similar to gordo telling the bbc whom to appoint as director.

we worry about politics and religion... to me even more disgusting than being told what god to worship by the state, is being kept in the dark and served bullshit by a fellating media.

believe me the results here in italy are humiliating in their efficacy and braindead factor.

of course in france the oppo media is much freer and more virulent than here, where beppe's gang is pretty much it.

please correct me de Gondi, i'd sure love to know if i'm wrong, but it seems like the media is more lickspittle here than in any other euro state, and other than the 'manifesto' i don't see much on the newstands to convince me otherwise.

tv is a moral wasteland, radio sometimes has something worthwhile, at best mildly critical of some policies...so far-

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 04:48:14 PM EST
Yes. It looks like Sarko is in grave danger of coming down with the Anglo disease.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 06:11:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
John McCain again mentioned the nonexistent nation of Czechoslovakia today, expressing concern that Russia was cutting off energy supplies to it.  This is the second time in two days he's mentioned Czechoslovakia, which, of course, hasn't existed for over 15 years.

Could someone please Grandpa a fucking map of Europe?...

...and such as...?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 at 07:53:57 PM EST
It happens to Barbara all the time. People even ask her about the nonexistent (not even former, as the country) Czechoslovakian language.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 04:26:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It could be worse. I knew someone, originally from the Soviet Union, who took a train from Prague to Budapest, forgetting that there was now another country (which required a visa) in between...
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 06:36:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But Barbara's from the former country, so having more trouble shaking it off is understandable in her case.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 10:02:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Firefox did an update on me last night and tribext has stopped working. Anyone else  have the same problem? or is it just my machine?

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 at 05:56:38 AM EST


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