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"May your God curse you until the end of times!"

by nicta Fri Jan 16th, 2009 at 05:46:45 PM EST

Who wrote this:

Personally, I will fight you with all I can (...), until the justice of man destroys hitlerism which is at the heart of your country. Shame on Israel. I hope your God will launch against its leaders the vengeance they deserve. (...) May your God curse you until the end of times! I hope you will be punished.

Is it:

  • Mahmoud Ahmedinajad
  • The leader of Hamas
  • Of Hezbollah

Answer after the jump ...


That's what André Nouschi, 86, former combattant of the Free French Forces, historian, wrote to the Israeli Ambassador to France:

(translation mine)


Tuesday the 13th, January 2009

Mr Ambassador,

For you it's shabat, it should be a day of peace but it's one of war. For me, and for a few years already, colonisation and the theft of Palestinian land by Israel is exasperating. I'm therefore writing to you as a French citizen, as a Jew and as someone who worked for the agreement between the Univerity of Nice and that of Haiffa ...

It is not possible anymore to remain silent with respect to the Israeli policy of assassination and imperialist expansionism. You are behaving exactly like Hitler behaved in Europe with Austria and Czechoslovakia.

You are in contempt of UN resolutions like he of those the SDN and you are assassinating women and children; do not invoke terrorism, the Intifada. This is a direct result of ILLEGAL and ILLEGITIMATE colonisation. IT IS THEFT. You are behaving like land thieves and you are turning your back to the rules of jewish morality.

Shame on you! Shame on Israel! You are digging your grave without realizing it. Because you are condamned to live with Palestinians and the Arab states. If you're lacking this political ingenuity, then you are unfit to be in politics and your leaders should retire. A country that assassinates Rabin and glorifies his assassin is a country without moral and without honor.

May the heavens and your God kill Sharon the assassin. You were defeated in Lebanon in 2006. You will be defeated again, I hope, and you will send to their death many young Israelis because you did not have the courage for peace.

How can jews, who have suffered so much, imitate their hitlerian tormentor? As far as I'm concerned, since 1975, colonisation brings back old memories, those of hitlerism. I cannot tell the difference between your leaders and those of Nazi Germany!

Personally, I will fight you with all I can just like I did between 1938 and 1945, until the justice of man destroys hitlerism which is at the heart of your country. Shame on Israel. I hope your God will launch against its leaders the vengeance they deserve. I am ashamed as a jew, as a WW2 veteran, for you. May your God curse you until the end of times! I hope you will be punished.

Display:
Shalom Aleichem

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Ana´s Nin
by Crazy Horse on Fri Jan 16th, 2009 at 06:17:37 PM EST
Thank you, nicta.

It´s really good to hear people brave enough to say that to Israel, from ´their own side´.  In all the media foam, it´s hard to find any ´internal´ dissent, which makes you wonder how can so many people in a country, be so dehumanized to agree with this willful barbarism.

That´s a great curse!  

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Sun Jan 18th, 2009 at 05:08:25 PM EST
"it´s hard to find any ´internal´ dissent"

It's not that hard - try google, e.g.:

Cf.:


...  In Israel itself, there are protests against this war on a captive people.  Thousands have gathered to protest daily in Tel Aviv, West Jerusalem, Haifa, Nazaret, Um el-Fahem, Tira, Taybe, and other cities.  Citizens called up as reservists to prepare for a possible land assault on Gaza have refused service, risking jail.  None of this is being reported in the American and European corporate media, which is largely "cheerleading" the Israeli attack, primarily by "evenhandedly" reporting on the attacks in Gaza and the rockets launched by Hamas into Israel.

As Dov Khenin, an Israeli Knesset member from Hadash, and a leading Communist Party member, stated in an interview with Amy Goodman on Democracy Now!, "Well, the most important thing to realize is that there is an opposition inside Israel to the war and to everything going on around right now in Gaza.  This position is a Jewish-Arab one.  On Saturday night, we had a demonstration in Tel Aviv of 2,000 young people, mainly Jews, and there are a lot of demonstrations all over Israel of Jews and Arabs opposing the war policy of the current government.  This opposition is growing steadily.  It is very important to know this and to understand that there are other voices in Israeli society who (oppose) a war, and they believe there is a better alternative for Israelis and Palestinians alike."

Yesterday, a group of Tel Aviv poets held a poetry-reading vigil protesting the Gaza operation in front of the luxury Akirov Towers, where Defense Minister Ehud Barak (and head of the Labor Party) has an apartment.  Twenty young poets read anti-war works over a loudspeaker, calling it "a protest against the destruction Ehud Barak is wreaking on the residents of the south while he's sleeping in a comfortable bed on the 31st floor."  Ibtisam Marahna, number 12 on the Meretz Knesset list, spoke at the protest, and announced her resignation from Meretz because of its support for the war.

http://www.monthlyreview.org/mrzine/cpi020109.html

Please do not rely on the mainstream US media - you will not find the truth there. Research the alternative media on the Internet and other sources, such as Link and Free Speech TV's "Democracy Now" daily news show, online sources such as Jewish Voices for Peace, the Electronic Intifada, or England's print media The Independence and The Observer, which are also available online, as are the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz, and Israeli organizations such "Gush Shalom," "B'tselem" and "Breaking the Silence: Israeli Soldiers Talk About the Occupied" - the latter at www.shovrimshtika.org/index_e.asp

As one Israeli conscientious objector recently stated in a "Democracy Now" interview after being released from prison, "At least in Israel there is debate over the actions of the right-wing government, in the US you don't even get that."

Elizabeth Molchany is an attorney in private practice in Front Royal, VA. Ms. Molchany is a long-time student of the crisis in the Middle East.

http://wcrnews.wordpress.com/2009/01/09/the-gaza-holocaust-op-ed/



Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Sun Jan 18th, 2009 at 07:15:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Please do not rely on the mainstream US media...
Therein lies the problem within the USA.  For the same reasons you cannot rely on the US MSM underlie the grip that the right wing of Israeli politics appears to hold over US policy concerning Israel and Palestine.  That portion of the Israeli population, perhaps as high as 40%, that oppose the current Israeli policy and the massively corrupt politics out of which it arises, are in much the same position as were the opponents of the Iraq war in the USA in 2004.  For things to change, perhaps 11% of the voting population in Israel will have to change their preferences.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Jan 19th, 2009 at 08:22:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
By deception thou shalt rule.

Let us take up Muslim immigration in the UK.
Or perhaps Turks in Germany.
How about Mexicans in the US.

The policy is about the forced mixing of races/belief systems/color of skin/sexual differences to thereby warrant a government intervention.  It does also have the added benefit of wage supression amongst the prole classes assuring your profitability in these most trying times.

Very true, the most "retarded"/perhaps calculated thing done in modern times was to place two "diverse" people's of diametrically opposing veiws in the very same land together.  People who have vowed to eliminate each other for thousands of years placed in the very same small corner of the world.

To add insult to injury America used to rally around the oppressed, the underdog yet here in this day US support clearly outlines the plight of Palestinians throwing rocks at armoured tanks, precision guided missiles and illegal weapons.  Not even a fair fight.

There is discussion here on highly non-popular places about America's emergence into the Fourth Reich, yes, and I really do mean that in it's full ugly connotation.  True it was a product of the Bush neo-con administration but it is also a product endorsed by the incoming Barry Soetoro/CFR globalist administration.
Europe, you are up next.

by Lasthorseman on Sun Jan 18th, 2009 at 08:27:49 PM EST
People who have vowed to eliminate each other for thousands of years placed in the very same small corner of the world.

What are you talking about? Historically, the Muslims were tolerant of the Jews, and in fact treated them much better than they were treated by Christians in Europe. If the Muslims had been truly interested in eliminating the Jews, surely they would have managed it long before the Europeans got around to their later, more effective period of meddling in the Middle East.

by wing26 on Mon Jan 19th, 2009 at 12:00:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's good to hear something like this...
But do they care? Tonight I saw on TV smiling faces of Israeli solders making "victory" signs...
I never was able to understand that...and during Balkan wars of 90s when ever I saw smiling face of a solder coming from " battle" I felt sorry for him...I knew he is not normal (in his mind) any more...

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein
by vbo on Mon Jan 19th, 2009 at 08:58:24 AM EST
 

when ever I saw smiling face of a solder coming from "battle" I felt sorry for him...I knew he is not normal (in his mind) any more...

You didn't "know" it - you assumed it, and it seems a bit harsh. Cf.:

soldiers-celebrate-fall-sarbrucken

http://www.files.trailblazersww2.org/division_photos_page1.htm

 These US soldiers are celebrating the fall of Saarbrucken in 1945. Smiling is a pretty natural reaction, it's probably  relief at still being alive - and maybe to not having to kill.

Laughing is also a way of coping in war, you might be surprised by the context of this photo:

73572400JM006_British_Hold_

AFGHANISTAN - MARCH 15: British soldiers celebrate the lives of fallen comrades by sharing personal stories following a memorial service March 15, 2007 in Kajaki, Afghanistan. Helmand province . British troops gathered on a mountaintop observation post to honor three British soldiers killed by Taliban attacks in Afghanistan. L/Bdr Russ Clark, L/Bdr Liam McLaughlin and Sgt. Major Mick Smith died in the first week of March, a week that saw a total of four British soldiers killed in combat operations in Helmand. (Photo by John Moore/Getty Images)

http://www.daylife.com/photo/0gvo4QS5mFgPy



Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Mon Jan 19th, 2009 at 10:51:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I am sorry, but I don't think anyone who ever KILLED even ONE person (willingly or not willingly) can be normal again. I am not saying he is insane, but he is definitely not the person he was prior to killing.
And for me, there is no excuse for killing. None. I can only understand that people are pushed to defend their selves and their families once someone else COMES to their "door" to actually kill them. Even then they can't stay "normal" all though it's easier for them to cope morally then for attacker (occupier)...
I know it is all much more complex and especially men have different approach to war...
We were in shock when during Bosnian war of 90s a family of relatives of my husband came to visit us in Belgrade. Young wife of that relative came fully dressed with full make up on her. And she was in Belgrade to shop for clothes. It was like there is no war there where they came from (Bosnia).People just use to the situation. Our friend's wife (from Serbia) was totally in panic when Milosevic took him to the Army and sent him on Vukovar ( Croatia). She couldn't sleep, or eat...and probably did not bother to even "wash her face in the morning" let alone put make up...
But I remember also they told us when a 3 years old girl that came with family from Bosnia saw city lights she said "Mum, look, lighting bullets" cause that was the only light she had seen. I don't know if this girl will be "normal" as she would be if she did not experience war in her early childhood...
War is terror...nothing to smile about...


Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein
by vbo on Mon Jan 19th, 2009 at 08:54:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I totally agree with you.  I don't even think that all of us are 'normal' anymore, given what we learn is going on everyday.  We are continually constrained by a natural 'defense/survival mechanism' to put aside the horror we cannot accept, while we feel individually helpless to change it.

Anecdotal photos of joy at the end of fighting only represent a few moments and are not the real-life consequences that pervade the lives of fighters and society during and after war.  Most people cannot face that reality and limit their world view to what they can handle.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Tue Jan 20th, 2009 at 08:54:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What is "normal" - and when do you think people enjoyed this state and when did we lose it ?


Anecdotal photos of joy at the end of fighting only represent a few moments and are not the real-life consequences that pervade the lives of fighters and society during and after war.

Obviously - did you seriously think I was using them to argue the absurd view that if they were smiling then they would be OK after the war ? (see the quotation in my comment above). My point was - pretty clearly I think - that smiling after combat was a quite understandable immediate reaction and not a sign of abnormality. The photo of Brit troops laughing at the funeral of a comrade doesn't indicate that they have been dehumanised, but that shared laughter can be a way of coping with grim circumstances, cf. Irish wakes, at which it is also the custom to share memories of the dead person, some of them humourous. Whether the Brit troops will be psychologically damaged when they return by their general experience in Afghanistan is another matter (see the quotation above again).

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Tue Jan 20th, 2009 at 05:40:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
 The quotation is in the comment below.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Tue Jan 20th, 2009 at 05:42:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You've changed your point - I was objecting to your emphasis on the smiling:


Tonight I saw on TV smiling faces of Israeli solders making "victory" signs...
I never was able to understand that...and during Balkan wars of 90s when ever I saw smiling face of a solder coming from " battle" I felt sorry for him...

I was saying that in fact it is NOT hard to understand such smiling - it's relief at being out of it and being alive - and not in itself a sign that they are not "normal" - whatever that is.

Of course war can damage people - to varying degrees, but it's important to remember that not all people in the military are in the front line and not even all of those kill others. Of course, for those who do, or witness it, it can be traumatic:


A nationwide, long-term study of Vietnam veterans -- now entering its third phase -- concluded that one-third of combat soldiers returned emotionally wounded. After the 1991 Persian Gulf War, about 10 percent of the troops suffered distress from a conflict that was much briefer and less intense.

Given the confusing, urban ambush-style fighting in this Iraq campaign, experts predict trauma levels closer to Vietnam's.

...

Fifteen years after being discharged, the post-Vietnam study shows, 15 percent of veterans still suffered from PTSD, the most serious of trauma reactions.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3030.htm

It doesn't advance understanding merely to assert that all soldiers return not "normal" - especially when merely based on seeing some of them smile.  

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Tue Jan 20th, 2009 at 05:17:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
During NATO bombardment of Belgrade in 1999 a lot of people actually refused to go to shelters or basements after few days and they started to "have parties". Not being able to work much they visited each other constantly, drunk heavily, and pretended that nothing is happening. But it's not healthy behavior. It's not normal reaction.
I couldn't get my brother to send his three sons ( 10, 8 and 6 at the time) out of the country till bomb exploded at the next city block...When I argued that children will  be psychologically damaged he would say " No, they sleep during bombardment time"...He was in denial...
What is normal? Hard question. Having to shoot  another man or be afraid that he will shoot you doesn't sound like normal part of one's life.
Then again, it is complex...Not everyone can be surgeon/operator , and stay normal...I am not saying they who kill in war are all insane...but they are not their "old" selves any more...


Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein
by vbo on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 12:15:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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