Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.

Thursday Open Thread

by Jerome a Paris Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 09:56:21 AM EST

It's Thursday


Display:
Happy birthday, Roe v Wade.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 10:04:09 AM EST
Still there, even if only hanging by a thread. Ihope Obama is gonna ratchet some of that stuff back cos he can't leave it as exposed as it is without being sure the next repug psycho misgynist won't take it away.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 10:56:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's sort of out of his hands - USC appointments open up when they do. He'll get to rejuvenate the left wing of the court, but I can't see any of the wingnuts leaving except feet first.
by MarekNYC on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 11:14:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm fairly sure Stevens will leave, since he's 88, but he's one of the liberals.  Kennedy is the only one that matters.  I've heard that he is thinking of retiring soon, although he's not very old by SCOTUS standards.  If Kennedy retires under Obama, that pretty much ensures that Roe lasts for another 20 years.

It would also mean pushing the Court to the left a bit on the death penalty and gay rights, although Kennedy has been fairly good on both.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 12:00:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
new phase in American politics:

Many Latin Americans on Tuesday greeted the inauguration of Barack Obama with high hopes that the 44th president of the United States will successfully steer his nation and the world out of its current crises, but some were skeptical.

Newspapers and websites throughout the hemisphere featured exhaustive coverage of the swearing-in and other events in Washington. There were also plenty of laudatory editorials and analyses, ranging from fashion to bilateral relations.

''Obama's speech, at the center of world expectation,'' read a headline on lanacion.com in Argentina.

''Latin America maintains hope with Obama's new government,'' said the website of Lima's El Comercio, and the site of El Nacional in Caracas used the headline ``Obama is sworn in as U.S. president amid prayers, music and applause.''

The front page of Tuesday's Zero Hora of Porto Alegre, Brazil, featured a close-up portrait of Obama and the words ``A New Beginning for America.''

''There is a feeling this is a historic event,'' said Raúl Trejo, who teaches political and social sciences at the Universidad Autónoma de México. ``Seventy-six percent of those polled today by the newspaper Excelsior believe things will go better with Obama.''

At the Plaza Murillo in downtown La Paz, Bolivia, even indigenous residents from rural areas were pleased that the United States had inaugurated its first black president.

''He's not like other presidents, just like we have our first Indian president,'' said Gladys Sanjinez, referring to Evo Morales, an Aymara Indian who took office three years ago.



"Beware of the man who does not talk, and the dog that does not bark." Cheyenne
by maracatu on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 10:34:07 AM EST
Gadzooks, went to the most waste of space job fair today. However, I supose the fact that there was just nothing but training being offered represents how bad things have become. Nobody is hiring. No jobs, none at all.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 10:58:23 AM EST
Skimming comments, I briefly thought you'd gone to a space job fair.  Kewl.

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
by poemless on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 12:23:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Helen the astronaut!
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 12:27:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
the face that launched a thousand (space) ships

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 01:10:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
or the face that launched a thousand quips?

notes from no w here
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 02:12:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nah, that's Sven

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 02:15:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"A quip one while he's away"

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 02:20:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
a quip in time saves crime?

notes from no w here
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 02:27:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I know on who's side my money rides, between, from a previous comment by Sven, the bloods and the quips.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 03:15:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
True Story. I was 12 and a new member of the school debating society. The motion was 'The extreme is justified in moderation'. I launched into a story, here foreshortened, about an egg packing plant. They use lamps to shine through the eggs as they stream past on a conveyor belt to check they are not fertilized. Problem with lamps overheating and catching fire. And onto the punch - 'The egg stream is just a fried conglomeration'.

It's been downhill ever since....

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 03:47:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The stream of consciousness of an egg head?

notes from no w here
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 04:29:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I shell not reply to that jibe ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 04:34:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
you can't take a yoke?

notes from no w here
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 04:59:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That was crate, Frank!

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 05:03:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I seem to have come down with something. Annoying, but could have been worse - while traveling or in a miniature two room apartment with three people including an active and loud toddler.
by MarekNYC on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 11:12:57 AM EST
In Wales just gave me a HEART ATTACK with her Early Friday Photography blog.  I know you all are several hours ahead of me, but a whole day?!

That's not nice, scaring people who have deadlines and such by pretending it is already tomorrow.  Unless y'all have moved to Vladivostok without informing us.  Then I extend my apologies for the misunderstanding.

Probably did not help that I saw that Lost episode last night (my friend has been nagging me to watch it) where space-time goes all berserk...

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.

by poemless on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 12:22:27 PM EST
Rather than renaming it to the Thursday Photography blog (given that it is more difficult to get the blog up and get people posting on it on a Friday) we decided to cryptically call it the Early Friday Photography Blog - although admittedly it was earlier than usual today, it usually goes up late on Thursday.

Anyway, I'm sure the shock did you good and will help to motivate you towards your deadlines.  Space-time can go beserk in Europe too when it feels like it but, you'll be pleased to know, not today. Or tomorrow.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 12:26:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Space-time can go beserk in Europe too when it feels like it but, you'll be pleased to know, not today. Or tomorrow.

that kinda implies you have a hand on the controls. Are you a god of space time who isn't worshipped anymore ? On a loose leash from either torchwood or MiB and you have to work for a living to get your  ambrosia and honey.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 01:15:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If I was a God of space-time I assure you it actually would be friday because I really need my weekend.  I think you need to point the finger at someone else...
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 02:32:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]


"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 03:05:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yea, but she dropped her tardis and all the kings horses and all the kings sonic screw drivers won't put it back together till next summer.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 03:36:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Mother given seven-year jail term in incest, abuse case - The Irish Times - Thu, Jan 22, 2009

A Co Roscommon mother-of-six has been to sentenced seven years in prison after pleading guilty to incest, sexual assault and neglect of her children.

At Roscommon Circuit Court today, Judge Miriam Reynolds said she would have given the 40-year-old woman, who cannot be named for legal reasons, a life sentence had she been a man.

However, Judge Reynolds said she was restricted by the terms of 1908 legal act, which carries a maximum seven-year sentence for incest cases involving women.

The woman had pleaded guilty to two counts of incest committed in June 2004 and on a date unknown between July and October 2004.

She had also pleaded guilty to two charges of sexual abuse against a son on the same dates and to neglecting and ill treating each of her six children from 1998 to 2004 .

The court yesterday heard details about the plight of the six children who, despite coming to the notice of social workers in 1996, were not into taken into care until 2004.

One of the children was sexually abused by his mother, while all of the family were forced to live in filthy conditions without sufficient food, clothing or heating.

Judge Reynolds asked why eight years elapsed during which social workers and home helps regularly visited the home before the children were removed from "what seems to have been an awful household".

Social workers believe that the mother received support from "a Catholic right-wing organisation" when she got a High Court injunction in 2000 to stop the children from being placed in the care of relatives.



notes from no w here
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 01:15:25 PM EST
the mother received support from "a Catholic right-wing organisation" when she got a High Court injunction in 2000 to stop the children from being placed in the care of relatives.

Oh, yuk. They just don't seem to learn do they ?

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 01:17:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
we can't have the state violating the "sanctity of the family" now can we?

notes from no w here
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 01:28:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Surely 'A catholic right wing organisation' can be named in open court, then becomes a matter of public record, so no tiptoing around them is required.

So who are they?

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 01:28:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We'll have to wait for someone to name them under privilege in the Dail, I imagine.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 01:34:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah:

A childcare manager testified that he had been approached by a woman called Mína Bean Uí Chroibín who told him that the family needed support, not intrusive action.

Do you remember this woman?  I do.  Also known as Mina Cribben.  A screaming, fanatical Catholic nutcase who for decades has been trying to impose a demented Taliban society on us.  Remember SPUC, Family Solidarity and all the rest of them?  That was Mína, the mad old bat.(Bock the robber)

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 01:48:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Vaguely remember seeing her 30 years ago holding up some placard or other. Sick.

notes from no w here
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 01:56:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That section of the story has now been removed by an updated story in the Irish times under the same link.  Presumably they are afraid of libel.

notes from no w here
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 02:11:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"a Catholic right-wing organisation"

I was under the impression the Church itself was a right-wing organization.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 01:32:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The church has always claimed that child abuse was due to a few bad apples - nothing intrinsic to their theology and practice - e.g. subjugation of women, obsession with sexuality, obsession with child control, celibacy, condemnation of homosexuality, sexual repression in general etc.

Be interesting to compare child abuse patterns with non-catholic/christian socities

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 02:03:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was always told that as child abuse wasn't mentioned in the bible as a bad thing (in Leviticus it's almost compulsory) therefore, from a catholic point of view, it wasn't a big deal. So protecting such a thing wouldn't be a stretch, esepcially in the light of other events around the world.

And catholicism has always had an illusion of itself as being above temporal law and their priests were exempted from the laws of the land where they worked (this was the cause of the fatal schism between Henry II & Thomas a Beckett).

It's interesting that the church still felt it could ignore the law of the land and get away with it.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 02:13:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is abortion mentioned in the bible? I'm not sure.
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 02:20:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Abortion comes under the Sixth Commandment (thou shalt not kill). Course we could note that the Bible seems pretty heavy on the murder, executions, genocide and general blooc-soaked mayhem, so I think that's a bit of a selective reading.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 02:26:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's the English translation. In modern Hebrew it means "thou shall not murder"; in the original Hebrew, who knows? My guess is something like "thou shall not commit manslaughter" which leaves genocide out, and isn't too clear on abortion. There was a detailed discussion recently in The Forward.
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 02:37:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Abortion comes under the Sixth Commandment

Yes, but I think the premise is Psalms 139:13.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 03:10:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
At Roscommon Circuit Court today, Judge Miriam Reynolds said she would have given the 40-year-old woman, who cannot be named for legal reasons, a life sentence had she been a man.

However, Judge Reynolds said she was restricted by the terms of 1908 legal act, which carries a maximum seven-year sentence for incest cases involving women.

What the hell kind of law is that?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 01:34:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
One that overhauled fifteen years ago. By Queen Victoria, apparently.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 01:38:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But I mean: What's the logic of different sentences for men and women?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 01:59:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The what, now? What is this "logic" you speak of?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 02:00:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Victorian logic, which remarkably was not reviewed when the act was amended a few years ago.  Apparently "equal" legislation is now in place - but is not retro-active to when these offences occurred

notes from no w here
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 02:05:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, okay.  For some reason, I got the impression it was a more modern law that had been written this way.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 02:24:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This is law; a subject entirely different from and usually unrelated to logic.

Just like homosexuality in the UK was only illegal for men; nobody dared tell Queen Victoria about lesbians and so there was no law against 'em.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 02:05:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Also the bible is only concerned (even if only in a marginal way) with male homosexuality.
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 02:21:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Im sure that thats an Urban Myth, but am too busy cooking to confirm.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 02:26:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I am less certain.  Married heterosexual sex in those societies didn't particularly need to be consensual, and with polygamy, there may well have been little concern as to what the women did amongst themselves, provided virginity was no longer an issue.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 04:03:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
QI Talk Forum | View topic - Eroticism and Erotica
It is believed those presenting the amendment removed it (as the House of Lords did nearly 40 years later) fearing criminalizing lesbianism would alert women to its possibility.


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 05:10:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I am sure that decision was very wise and effective in that regard.  Just think of all of the women saved from being corrupted by something a bunch of men suggested to them.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 05:29:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sort of special on all sorts of levels.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 01:38:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
43 Folders Clips - lonelysandwich: "Boca" dir. Matt Wolf It's...

"Boca" dir. Matt Wolf

It's incidental that this exquisite little short from a kid I knew when he was 17 and I TA'd for the summer high school film program at NYU, was shot on a cell phone.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 02:48:20 PM EST
This looks like every 'gated community' in south Florida that I've ever seen.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Fri Jan 23rd, 2009 at 07:07:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Government prevented from taking Barclays stake by deal with Abu Dhabi - Times Online

A clause inserted during the Abu Dhabi Royal Family's investment in Barclays last October has made it practically impossible for the Government to take a meaningful stake in the bank, The Times has learnt.

News of the clause is likely to reignite controversy over the way that Barclays raised the money -- dubbed at the time by Vince Cable, Liberal Democrat Treasury spokesman, as "a scandal of mammoth proportions". Barclays shares fell another 9 per cent yesterday, having collapsed by 35 per cent at one point, amid speculation that it is poised to raise more capital -- either in the market or from the Government.

But the small print in the deal, in which Barclays raised £7.3 billion from Abu Dhabi and Qatar, means that if the bank raises fresh capital before the end of June, the Middle Eastern investors would receive a greater number of shares for their original investment without paying more. If Barclays were to raise fresh capital at last night's closing price, for example, it would automatically hand almost 50 per cent of the bank to the Middle Eastern investors. The only way to get around the anti-dilution clause, should Barclays need more money before the end of June, would be if new capital was raised at more than the 153p-a-share at which paper issued to Abu Dhabi and Qatar is due to convert into Barclays stock.

This would mean that if the Government wanted to take a meaningful stake in the bank, it would have to do so by paying more than 153p for Barclays shares -- which were trading at just 66.1p yesterday. The Treasury would face accusations of wasting taxpayers' money were it to do this.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 02:53:09 PM EST
I'd agree, let Barclays hang. It would be just reward for this deal which was done just to ensure the Directors received the obscenely high bonuses that owuld have been forbidden by the govt bailout.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 03:08:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"No cookie, no content", 21 January 2009

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 02:54:43 PM EST
Love that "No cookie, no content".
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 03:18:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Unwind that, suckahs! | BBC | 22 Jan 2009

The secret to a more secure and cost effective government is through open source technologies and products.

The claim comes from one of Silicon Valley's most respected business leaders Scott McNealy, a co-founder of Sun Microsystems. He revealed he has been asked to prepare a paper on the subject for the new administration.

"It's intuitively obvious open source is more cost effective and productive than proprietary software," he said. "Open source does not require you to pay a penny [in license fees] to Microsoft or IBM or Oracle or [almost] any proprietary vendor [alert!] any money." ...

President Obama has said he is prepared to go through the budget "line by line" to cut wasteful spending, but has so far failed to give any specifics of how that would be done.

The Open Source Initiative, or OSI, is fully supportive of Mr McNealy's efforts which both believe is one of the main solutions the new President cannot afford to ignore.

"Scott is absolutely correct about the benefits which have been demonstrated time and again," said OSI President Michael Tiemann. "It's an accident of history [??!!!]that proprietary standards became so entrenched so early and it's been a colossal expense for government."

File Under Ager, Philip / Surveillance | TG Daily | 19 Jan 2009

[Advertisment] Gdrive is basically a cloud-based storage  [remote proprietary device] that should have two faces: A desktop client that keeps local and online files and folders in two-directional sync via a web interface for accessing your desktop files anywhere and anytime, using any network-enabled computer. In addition, it will come tightly integrated with other Google services to enable editing of supported document types, like spreadsheets and presentations via Google Docs, email via Gmail, images via Picasa Web Albums, etc.

This opens powerful possibilities. For instance, you could start working on a spreadsheet at home and continue via Gdrive web interface accessed in an Internet cafe. When you arrive back home, changes to the spreadsheet have already trickled down from the cloud to your desktop. The idea, of course, is all but revolutionary, but Google's execution could set it apart.  ... [ / Advertisment]

With Gdrive, privacy implications could overshadow its benefits. Remember how privacy advocates chased Google "to hell and back" for indexing content of Gmail messages? [and Google vs Gonzales?] It also didn't help any that the company scanned your email in order to serve better, more relevant ads when viewing a message. Gdrive would scan everything you upload to it, just like Google Desktop - the company's application that brings the power of its search engine to your desktop (it scans the content of authorized files and folders on your machine).

We don't, however, see a problem if Gdrive will let users exclude any file or folder from being sent online, plus if indexed Gdrive stuff can't be associated with our personal [?!]  information. ... [emphasis added]



Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 09:10:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
By email so no link:

ALERT
RGE Monitor
January 22, 2009

RGE Monitor Estimates $3.6 Trillion Loan and Securities Losses in the U.S.

Nouriel Roubini and Elisa Parisi-Capone of RGE Monitor release new estimates for expected loan losses and writedowns on U.S. originated securitizations:

    * Loan losses on a total of $12.37 trillion unsecuritized loans are expected to reach $1.6 trillion. Of these, U.S. banks and brokers are expected to incur $1.1 trillion.

    * Mark-to-market writedowns based on derivatives prices and cash bond indices on a further $10.84 trillion in securities reached about $2 trillion ($1.92 trillion.) About 40% of these securities (and losses) are held abroad according to flow-of-funds data. U.S. banks and broker dealers are assumed to incur a share of 30-35%, or $600-700 billion in securities writedowns.

    * Total loan losses and securities writedowns on U.S. originated assets are expected to reach about $3.6 trillion. The U.S. banking sector is exposed to half of this figure, or $1.8 trillion (i.e. $1.1 trillion loan losses + $700bn writedowns.)

    * FDIC-insured banks' capitalization is $1.3 trillion as of Q3 2008; investment banks had $110bn in equity capital as of Q3 2008. Past recapitalization via TARP 1 funds of $230bn and private capital of $200bn still leaves the U.S. banking system borderline insolvent if our loss estimates materialize.

    * In order to restore safe lending, additional private and/or public capital in the order of $1 - 1.4 trillion is needed. This magnitude calls for a comprehensive solution along the lines of a `bad bank' as proposed by policy makers or an outright restructuring through a new RTC.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 02:55:35 PM EST
Econbrowser: A New Meme: Blame It on Beijing (and Seoul, and Riyadh...)

Perhaps I'm overstating it, but I think this is the abridged version of the Bush Administration's perspective on how we got into the financial mess we find ourselves in. You might ask why I focus on the ideas of the outgoing government. Well, it's because I'm confident that this will be a thesis pushed by some commentators eager to absolve previous policymakers of blame [1]. And indeed (as Mish points out), this view has apparently adherents in high places.

...

Econbrowser: A New Meme: Blame It on Beijing (and Seoul, and Riyadh...)

Well, I think this last point leads us to my critique. Was it really sophisticated capital markets in the US, or a mania in which either agents made implausible assessments of future risk/return tradeoffs, or were engaged in "looting" the system by exploiting implicit guarantees and building up contingent liabilities for the taxpayers, that sucked in capital from the rest of the world.

Three years ago, I'd surely have a difficult time convincing people that US capital markets weren't completely self-regulating and self-correcting. Maybe it's time to revisit the "saving glut" hypothesis, and say that perhaps capital "sucked" into America, rather than "pushed" into America.

Even if one were to say that the excess saving from East Asia -- and the oil exporters as we enter 2005-08 -- drove the bubble (and I'm willing to admit that there is something to the argument that global imbalances exacerbated domestic imbalances, especially related to the housing sector), I have two big caveats.

The argument that the saving glut led to low interest rates is not unambiguously accepted. [2], [3], [4], [5] [6] [7]. Consider Wright's work [pdf] on how the conundrum can be explained without resort to a central role for international factors (although he allows for some; see also this post). Also consider the correlation between low interest rates and the US current account. Below is a graph from a post two years ago.
Figure 1: The Net Export to GDP ratio and the ten year constant maturity yield (end of quarter) yield minus the ten year ahead (median) expected CPI inflation rate. Source: FRED II and Philadelphia Fed.

But, thinking again about exogeneity, why were funds flowing to the US. Some of it was low national saving. And why was that saving low? Because we were piling tax cuts upon tax cuts (admittedly I'm sounding like a broken record here: [8] [9]). But then add to this question why did the oil exporters start building up current account surpluses of enormous magnitudes? Because demand for oil rose in China, and the US (some observers conveniently ignore the US and focus on China, but it was adding substantial amounts of incremental demand up to 2005 or so). But some of that Chinese demand for oil was "derived demand", driven by US consumption of Chinese made goods.


by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 02:57:28 PM EST
I've just watched my idea fo a great comedy show, a Money Programme special on how Porsche beat the hedge fund markets last october. I laughed all the way through.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 03:03:53 PM EST
What makes their participation laudable?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 03:17:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I did find associated financial sharks crying into their milk at being outwitted by a staid german carmaker most entertaining.

and the fact that they didn't think for a second that something odd was happening when Volkswagen seemed to be avoiding the market events that was efecting every other single carmanker. After all it couldn't be anything that they were doing was possibly wrong.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 03:31:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
managed to increase sales, overall, in 2008. Not many manufacturers managed that.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 05:42:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Raw Story | Whistleblower: NSA spied on everyone, targeted journalists
Former National Security Agency analyst Russell Tice, who helped expose the NSA's warrantless wiretapping in December 2005, has now come forward with even more startling allegations. Tice told MSNBC's Keith Olbermann on Wednesday that the programs that spied on Americans were not only much broader than previously acknowledged but specifically targeted journalists.

"The National Security Agency had access to all Americans' communications -- faxes, phone calls, and their computer communications," Tice claimed. "It didn't matter whether you were in Kansas, in the middle of the country, and you never made foreign communications at all. They monitored all communications."

Tice further explained that "even for the NSA it's impossible to literally collect all communications. ... What was done was sort of an ability to look at the metadata ... and ferret that information to determine what communications would ultimately be collected."

According to Tice, in addition to this "low-tech, dragnet" approach, the NSA also had the ability to hone in on specific groups, and that was the aspect he himself was involved with. However, even within the NSA there was a cover story meant to prevent people like Tice from realizing what they were doing.

"In one of the operations that I was in, we looked at organizations, just supposedly so that we would not target them," Tice told Olbermann. "What I was finding out, though, is that the collection on those organizations was 24/7 and 365 days a year -- and it made no sense. ... I started to investigate that. That's about the time when they came after me to fire me."

When Olbermann pressed him for specifics, Tice offered, "An organization that was collected on were US news organizations and reporters and journalists."
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 03:18:48 PM EST
Nice catch, Metatone.  If anybody's wondering whether there should accountability and prosecutions or not.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 03:33:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Tice was on Olberman's Countdown Wed. evening and may well return tonight.  I'm sure clips are available.  He has made a standing offer to help the Obama campaign or Administration for almost a year but has not been contacted.  He appears to be a real stand-up citizen.  Hope he comes out of this on his feet.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 04:18:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
He has made a standing offer to help the Obama campaign or Administration for almost a year but has not been contacted.

Ha, they know a poisoned chalice when they see one. What you don't know you don't have to investigate or prosecute. Tice's phone can stay quiet as far as the administration is concerned.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 04:25:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And they won't close Guantanamo, the bastards.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 04:31:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yep, and yep.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 04:47:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A website I can believe in.

But seriously, this is amazingly accessible, user-friendly and informative.  It just has the feel of 1) a younger Administration and 2) being designed to make people feel welcome.  I like the vibe.  I like the tone.  Going to the old White House site used to give me a serious case of the creeps.  

Damn.  I like the tone of this whole Administration.  Ok.  It's only been 2 days.  Still, Obama's done more constructive stuff in 48 hours than Bush did in 8 years.  I hope he can keep up the pace.  

I kinda like the real President Obama a lot more than the campaigning-for-President Obama.

And it wasn't until I saw this photo this morning that it hit me: This is for real.

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.

by poemless on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 03:28:18 PM EST
It's a pretty good website.  But given that we've gone from President Numbnuts to having a genuine geek (complete with Star Trek references, I hear) leading the country, I'd hope they'd improve on the God-awful mess that was the old site.

This executive order on FOIAs and presidential records is going to be great fun, too, especially now that Junior's got everybody in the press pissed off after that NSA revealed they were spying on journalists.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 03:53:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Question:

If all this stuff is easily accessible on-line by every soul in world with an Internet connection, what's the point of a WH Press Secretary, or press pool?  I mean, besides the perverse entertainment factor?  Even that might not last, given the discipline of Obama's team and the infinite lameness of the national press.  

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.

by poemless on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 04:07:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Besides the perverse entertainment factor?  Beats me.  But Gibbs can be pretty funny, so maybe it'll last a while.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 04:09:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh dear god.  Looks like the perversity remains.


Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
by poemless on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 04:23:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What's the problem? The press corps should be asking aggressive questions. It's what they've been doing for the last eight...

Oh, wait.

Perhaps it would work better for everyone if Obama forced them all to wear giant red hair, big floppy shoes and red noses.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 04:32:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Journalists are upset, as could have been predicted, with Obama's press team for limiting access to his second oath-taking yesterday to only a few pool reporters while barring the rest of the White House press corps and still and video photographic journalists completely from the oath do-over, necessitated by Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts' muffing the constitutionally prescribed language on Inauguration Day.

Just kill me, please.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 04:46:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Aw, come on.  You didn't think the press would take the "childish things" bit from the Inaugural address as also applying to them, did you?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 04:43:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I can't believe they're really upset that chimpy spied on them. They seemed so happy with every assault on the Constitution and restriction of liberty I find it hard to accept they never suspected they were just as much a target as everybody else.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 04:22:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
They. are. special.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 04:24:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
WaPo: Obama Staff Finds White House in the Technological Dark Ages

Good grief.  People running around with no computers, phones or outside e-mail access...

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.

by poemless on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 04:43:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I tried to use their comment form, filled in the required information, composed my comment and tried to send it.  It came back with an invalid e-mail response.  I wish some of the stuff in my inbox would get an invalid e-mail notice.  Perhaps they are not ready to receive comments and questions yet.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 04:45:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I told these gentlepeople.  They should have held a Native Americans´ exorcism circle and passed the peace pipe before setting foot on the site.  

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Fri Jan 23rd, 2009 at 01:40:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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