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Where do you get rail project cost numbers?

by BruceMcF Tue Jan 6th, 2009 at 11:52:18 AM EST

Throwing this out into the Intertubes.

I need to work out indicative costings to look at a cost benefit analysis of a proposed upgrade of a rail corridor into a Tram/Train system. The intent is to fight off a proposal to kill off the urban terminus of a rail line with a cheaper system that provides compelling benefits in the downtown district and substantial advantages region wide ... both those areas that use rail for regional transport and those that don't.

Where would you go to get indicative cost figures for:
(1) tram (streetcar) track by km
(2) tram electrical infrastructure by km
(3) Battery-electric bi-level Tram/Trains
(4) Traffic and Pedestrian level crossings
(5) Upgraded traffic priority traffic light control boxes
(6) Rail switches
(7) Rail platforms

... stuff like that? For an indicative costing, the greater the variety of sources to choose from, the better.

Some rough sketches thrown together over the last couple of days ... the live google map, and some excerpts ...

This is the CBD tramlines (east of map in red):


Which as a side effect turns the current at grade pedestrian access across the rail line from this (200m radius):


... to this (Newcastle West):


... and this (Civic and Newcastle East):


This in green is the main "Tram/Bus" route supported by a new interchange platform on the main rail line, dedicated University bypass stop, and an existing underutilized station:


... with extension to the North for Raymond Terrace ...


... and Newcastle Airport and Nelsons Bay ...


So that's an idea of the scale of the project leveraging off of very few kilometers of streetcar track.

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Where do you get rail project cost numbers? | 18 comments (18 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
I can't give you specific links, but (none / 0)
Portland, OR has substantial experience with tram and light-rail. I don't think that their projects have involved a conversion from an existing rail system, but the orginal light-rail system (MAX) was laid in RR right-of-way, if I remember correctly, alongside the 'Banfield Expressway'. (Interestingly, the 'usual' tendency at the time of construction would have been to widen the expressway.)

The good news for your project is that the Portland City folks are generally very forthcoming and communicative.

paul spencer

by paul spencer (paulgspencer@gmail.com) on Tue Jan 6th, 2009 at 01:08:39 PM EST
Thanks, that could help with some of it ... (none / 0)
... its fine if the light rail and heavy rail info comes from different sources.

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Tue Jan 6th, 2009 at 01:44:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Where do you get rail project cost numbers? (none / 0)
You'll get some data in this article about the madrid subway.
by Xavier in Paris on Tue Jan 6th, 2009 at 05:28:20 PM EST
Yowsa, that's out of our league ... (none / 0)
... no subway, that's for sure ... though €42m/km would be in the rough ballpark of the cost per km of proposed closure, A$80m/km.


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Tue Jan 6th, 2009 at 05:37:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Yowsa, that's out of our league ... (none / 0)
I don't remember whether the part they allude to is subterranean (It is probably NOT). MetroMadrid is nevertheless known to have a very aggressive policy of developing new lines and is cited as a model for the (paris) transport authority. (see minutes of "Conférence métropolitaine" meetings)
by Xavier in Paris on Wed Jan 7th, 2009 at 06:04:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Yowsa, that's out of our league ... (none / 1)
Metrosur is a 40Km tunnel. The Line 10 extension is above ground.

Since then, more above-ground sections have been build at the end of various lines, as well as three light-rail (tram) branches.

See also Local Rail - An Overview
by DoDo on July 2nd, 2007.

Metro Madrid added more than 40 km (25 mi) in a four-year period to 2003, and another 56 km (35 mi) heavy metro this year -- to a total of 283 km (176 mi) -- note that Madrid is a city of just 3.2 million. The showcase project of the previous four years was Line 12 (yellowish green on the map), nicknamed MetroSur. This ring line doesn't circle the city, but serves a couple of suburban towns by distributing traffic from radial subway and rapid transit lines. Planning, tendering, boring, fitting out with concrete lining and tracks and electronics of this 40.5 km all-tunnel line; station construction; and purchase, testing and commissioning of subway trains was all done within four years and on a budget of only €1.1 billion! On time and budget in the extreme! Compare that to the time and cost earmarked for New York's 8.5-mile Second Avenue Subway project.


Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 7th, 2009 at 06:12:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
From the discussion of the three boring ... (none / 0)
... machines versus cut and cover, I'd venture to say that it is in whole or part subterranean.

This project is not establishing a new rail corridor, it is establishing an enhanced local rail service, primarily in an existing "Y" corridor, without interfering with existing regional rail services. So the indicative costings I need are for bits and pieces, not for whole project costs for all new lines.

But thanks, I'll be adding the links to the New Oil at Midnight Oil.


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Wed Jan 7th, 2009 at 07:19:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Yowsa, that's out of our league ... (none / 1)
Try these two articles on Madrid's light rail.

Findarticles.com: Madrid shifts emphasis from metro to light rail... (International Railway Journal,  Sept, 2006  by Barry Cross)

"The Sanchinarro Line is being built for 262.25 million [euro], including rolling stock. Conventional metro tunnels cost around 60 million [euro]/km, whereas here the cost is just 20 million [euro] to 25 million [euro]," Herrera observes, noting that a kilometre of surface line costs 70% less to build than a deep metro line. There will be five underground stations and four surface ones. The terminal at Pinar de Charmartin will also be the new terminus of extensions to lines 1 and 4 of the metro. The other terminal will connect with the new 15.7km Metronorte light metro line, due to open next year, serving the satellite communities of San Sebastian de los Reyes and Alcobendas.

...

The other two lines, on which construction began in February 2005, will function as a single entity marketed as Metro West, and will serve an estimated 90,000 residents. The 30-year concession for Metro West went to a different consortium consisting of OHL, Comsa, Ahorro de Corporacion Desarrollo and Transdev, which entered a bid of 523 million [euro]. Significantly, Transdev was chosen by Metro Tenerife to operate its new light rail line (IRJ June p39).

Both Metro West lines start at an underground complex at Colonia Jardin, where passengers can connect with Line 10 of the metro. The 13.7km Boadilla del Monte Line T3, which has 14 stations, is costing 210.53 million [euro]. The area through which it passes consists almost entirely of new housing and commercial development, which has allowed the planners to map out an alignment that has 90% surface running. Indeed, the longest underground section was built purely to enable the line to pass beneath a highway.

Line T3 is remarkable in that it mostly serves industrial parks and no residential areas until it reaches Boadilla del Monte at the end of the line.

See more information at Railway-Technology.com's page on the Madrid Light Rail.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 7th, 2009 at 06:21:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Where do you get rail project cost numbers? (none / 0)
DoDo is our resident expert. I assume he'll spot this dairy soon...

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Jan 7th, 2009 at 05:41:07 AM EST
If he doesn't, I'll be getting on the horn ... (none / 0)
... but I teach Wednesday to Friday, so this is a weekend by weekend project. No harm throwing the net out more widely.


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Wed Jan 7th, 2009 at 07:20:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Where do you get rail project cost numbers? (none / 1)
Denver, CO is in the process of developing a surface light rail system using a variety of corridors. One line already in service parallels a heavy rail line.

Some stuff to get you started:

http://home.eng.iastate.edu/~tge/ce203/group%209.pdf
http://www.rtd-fastracks.com/main_1
http://www.rtd-denver.com/

HTH

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Wed Jan 7th, 2009 at 07:40:32 AM EST
Re: Where do you get rail project cost numbers? (none / 0)
Forgot to add: the project was financed through a bond issue approved by voters, so all the financial information will be out there on the ether somewhere.

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman
by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Wed Jan 7th, 2009 at 07:48:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Where do you get rail project cost numbers? (none / 0)
asdf might be able to help, as he's in Colorado Springs.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 7th, 2009 at 08:00:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Where do you get rail project cost numbers? (none / 0)
dvx:
the project was financed through a bond issue approved by voters,

Funded by a Sales Tax, I think.

I really don't know why it is that all of the property owners along these routes should be getting an unearned windfall gain - through the rise in value of their homes (or rather of the land the homes are built on) - at the expense of everyone in Denver who pays this Sales Tax.

Simply apply a Location Benefit Levy/ Assessment proportional to the proximity of properties to stations, and use that instead of a Sales Tax.

It's not exactly Rocket Science is it?

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Wed Jan 7th, 2009 at 10:09:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Where do you get rail project cost numbers? (none / 0)
Well, since the property owners are taxed according to the assessed value of their homes and businesses, their windfall will be factored into their assessment, so that they will pay proportionately more into Denver's (and the other municipalities'/counties') general revenues.

Given the population density structure of the Metro Denver region, a sales tax is actually more progressive here, as even those who can afford to drive and/or effectively live beyond the range of transit routes are forced to contribute to this infrastructure.

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Wed Jan 7th, 2009 at 10:52:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Where do you get rail project cost numbers? (none / 1)
When London's Jubilee Line was built at a cost of about £2bn of Londoners' and general taxpayers' money, a study found that residential and commercial property values along the extension rose by an estimated £17bn.

That omits any indirect benefit accruing to the businesses along the route from having better employee access and time-keeping etc.

I doubt whether the increased assessments remotely approach a reasonable share in the windfall gains made by landowners at everyone else's expense.

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Wed Jan 7th, 2009 at 11:39:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
They are doing that more ... (none / 0)
... for transit projects in Oz, though its done as a transit levy in an "impact zone" rather than based on a more complex formula. However, for this project, its likely to be a development site on public land that is freed up as part of the project ... in a choice location that is served by the terminal station (which we are fighting, after all, to retain) ... which will be providing most of the permament infrastructure funding, so the public funding and farebox would be focused on the rolling stock and operating costs.

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Wed Jan 7th, 2009 at 12:46:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Short reply (none / 0)
I was off-line in Austria for four days (there'll be a connected diary), hence the late reply. I may look deeper into it tomorrow, for now, I will only point to the dKos version of my Local Rail series (Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4, Part 5), in which I tried to give representative figures for each mode of local rail.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sat Jan 10th, 2009 at 02:14:56 PM EST
Where do you get rail project cost numbers? | 18 comments (18 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)


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