Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush

by Migeru Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 06:18:21 AM EST

The personality cult of Obama, sometimes referred to as Obamania, continues unabated. In the latest display of fawning by serious, well-meaning people, he has been awarded the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize

for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples

His efforts (note, not his achievements) must have been truly extraordinary if it's taken him a bare 8 months in office and 11 months since election to win the prize. But this should have come as no surprise.

News was broken for ET by ~~Melanchthon~~ Turambar

I guess I wasn't paying attention in the weeks following his inauguration. The following story is from February 27, barely 5 weeks after he entered the White House: Obama 'in running for Nobel peace prize' (The Independent)

This year those names include Mr Obama, Mr Sarkozy, American musician Pete Seeger, Macedonian humanitarian Zivko Popovski-Cvetin, Austrian children's charity SOS-Kinderdorf International, Vietnamese religious leader Thich Quang Do, and American Greg Mortenson for his Asian school-building charity.

Look, if Sarkozy had won the Prize for his role in the Georgian crisis last Summer, one could disagree but at least he would have done something. I mean, the guy bribed Khadaffi to free some Bulgarian nuns, too.

But what has Obama done in his 8 months in office? Maybe this

Barack Obama cancels meeting with Dalai Lama 'to keep China happy'

Or this

US President Barack Obama has said his review of Afghan strategy will not look at pulling out or cutting troop levels.

You have to give it to him, he has done his darnedest to close Guantánamo. But there will still be people held without charges and without trial. And he hasn't invaded Honduras, in fact he threw the Monroe Docrine out the window in his (and Hillary Clinton's) reactions to the situation there. And he goes out of his way to be reasonable and talk to everyone. Or, at least, say he'll talk to Iran, for instance, which is enough to make the wingnuts crazy even if Bush was already moving in that direction

The US plans to establish a diplomatic presence in Tehran for the first time in 30 years as part of a remarkable turnaround in policy by President George Bush.

I mean, is the moral level of humankind so low that just not being a war criminal and acting diplomatically is worthy of a Nobel Peace Price? Or is the Nobel Peace Prize so blatantly politicised that they don't even pretend to hide it any longer? What's next from Oslo? Silvio Berlusconi in 2010? (h/t de Gondi)

Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush | 114 comments (114 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (4.00 / 14)

Blair must be blistering that he didn't get the prize for his accomplishments in Gaza.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 06:22:22 AM EST

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (4.00 / 10)

Don't poke fun. He tried very hard to find Gaza.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 06:25:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (none / 1)

He's still working on whether its more important to deal with the problems of a retired northern footballer

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 06:31:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (none / 1)

All that squinting from his residence in Jerusalem is quite a strain.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 06:36:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (4.00 / 3)

I've just woken up, and I'm thinking I need to go back to bed and hopefully wake up later back in the real world.

Shouldn't you have to actually, you know, accomplish the things they're talking about to win?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 07:49:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (4.00 / 5)

Drew J Jones:

Shouldn't you have to actually, you know, accomplish the things they're talking about to win?

Hey, you know what it's like in American schools: points for effort.

Holding an American [President] to a standard of achievement is "no fair".

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 08:03:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (4.00 / 4)

That's a myth about American schools to lead the rest of you to believe the kids are actually being taught anything in the first place.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 08:04:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (none / 1)

Do they not teach the Pledge of allegiance any more?

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 08:16:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (none / 0)

Hey, I've taught at the University of California. I know the score.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 08:21:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (none / 1)

Actually, the ET newsbreaker was Turambar, by 55 seconds.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 06:24:09 AM EST

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (4.00 / 10)

I'm generally well-behaved and quite nice and haven't sent anyone to war, can I have a Nobel Peace Prize too?

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 06:24:31 AM EST

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (4.00 / 2)

And me. I want one too!

by IdiotSavant on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 06:30:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

NO! (4.00 / 6)

you have to first start a war to qualify, and then you get the prize if you end it when you realise you can't win it.

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 07:47:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NO! (none / 1)

Even by that standard they gave Obama the Nobel on the come. Good luck on that to them.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 12:05:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (none / 0)

If history is any guide, I'd think all that would disqualify you. I mean, Kissinger and Arafat, anyone?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 07:52:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (4.00 / 2)

I think they want to give it to him as fast as possible, before the arguments against it are too strong.

by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 06:25:38 AM EST

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (4.00 / 4)

263 days without a second American civil war have to count for something.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 06:28:12 AM EST

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (none / 1)

It's early days yet.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 06:46:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (4.00 / 3)

Frank Schnittger puts it well:

In a triumph of hope over achievement, President Obama was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize today

What is this? A new religion?

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 06:50:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (none / 1)

We could use a new religion. It couldn't be much worse than the old religions.
But then we'd have to have a bunch of religious wars and Obama would have to give the award back.
Maybe he could ask the Committee to hold onto it for a few years just to see how things actually turn out.
Personally, I don't see any problem with Pete Seeger getting it, but it's been a while since he's had a hit.

by Andhakari on Sat Oct 10th, 2009 at 04:13:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (4.00 / 7)

Wow. Getting the Nobel for continuing (rather than ending) the wars started by his predecessors. As much as I admire the guy, that's setting the bar rather low.

by IdiotSavant on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 06:31:18 AM EST

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (4.00 / 5)

After Bush, I guess one already has to be happy when the US at least say they're against torture.
And I give him some credit for canceling the missile shield.

"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles." Sun Tzu

by Turambar (sersguenda at hotmail com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 06:31:53 AM EST

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (4.00 / 2)

But shouldn't he have at least shared that with Putin for cancelling the plans for missiles in Kaliningrad?

by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 06:41:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (none / 0)

You're not surely suggesting Oslo would put their adored Obama through the indignity of sharing a prize, do you?

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 08:06:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (4.00 / 5)

I think the title of your piece says it - the cult of Obama has nothing to do with it. It's a stab at Bush and his cult of personality.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 06:34:15 AM EST

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (4.00 / 3)

That said, it's an adolescent level of political sophistication. They should just stick to the arts and sciences.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 06:35:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (4.00 / 6)

MillMan:

That said, it's an adolescent level of political sophistication.

Has anyone else noticed how hard it is to find political sophistication that isn't?

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 06:47:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (4.00 / 2)

I'll reluctantly give that to the Canadians and not penalize them too badly for the Harper Era, but yeah.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 07:55:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (none / 1)

Absolutely!

For the past ten years, whenever I've seen group photo of the "G7", or 8, 9, 10, I've been impressed by how utterly mediocre are the world's "leaders" today; and then I thought, "Hmm. Now I really no longer wonder at the previously "incredible" follies of nation states and their chiefs of the past. The Crimean War?, no problem. Mexican War? Piece of cake.

Mediocrity marches on!!!

"In such an environment it is not surprising that the ills of technology should seem curable only through the application of more technology..." John W Aldridge

by proximity1 on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 09:05:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (4.00 / 3)

They do arts and sciences next door, in Sweden. The Norwegian Nobel Committee only does the peace prize.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 06:58:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama (4.00 / 4)

...and they are now saying in Norway that the Swedes should be entrusted with the Peace prize, too....

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 07:13:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama (4.00 / 3)

You can't make this whit up: Nobel Peace Prize - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Alfred Nobel's will stated that the prize should be awarded by a committee of five people elected by the Norwegian Parliament. Norway and Sweden were at that time still in union, and with Sweden responsible for all foreign policy, Nobel felt that the prize might be less subject to political corruption if awarded by Norway.

No, the Nobel Peace Prize is not politicised, no Siree.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 08:09:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama (4.00 / 3)

Might have worked, had he made it contingent on the Union.

Then again, he was not very explicit at all in his will:

That is the whole thing, one lousy page. First and last paragraphs are legal stuff establishing this as his one and only will. The stuff in the middle are the fuzzy instructions.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 04:25:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (4.00 / 7)

I think the Peace Nobel Committee should get an IG Nobel Prize in literature for their contribution to performance art.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 08:07:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (4.00 / 5)

European Tribune - Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush

for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples

You know, on that basis the prize could well have gone to Zapatero and Ergogan, for it was actually an extraordinary effort in 2004 to get the ball rolling for something like this

Alliance of Civilization to bridge divide between Islam and West (TwoCircles.net)

The Alliance of Civilizations was created in 2005 at the initiative of Spain and Turkey and under UN auspices to try to tackle fear and suspicion, bridge divides and overcome prejudices and polarizations between Islam and the West. In April, Mr. Ban appointed Mr. Sampaio, a former President of Portugal, as the first UN High Representative for the Alliance.

Zapatero got excoriated in the Spanish press for it, for instance.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 06:34:41 AM EST

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (none / 0)

Is there any idea as to who nominated him? If it turns out the nominator is one Henry Louis Gates, Jr. that could be a touch embarassing.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 06:34:44 AM EST

What's next? (4.00 / 2)

A presidential candidate yet to win office but promising the very best to establish world peace?

The Nobel committee using too much 'snus', or what?

by Nomad on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 06:35:15 AM EST

Re: What's next? (4.00 / 2)

Berlusconi for his effort to improve the understanding between old men and young women, shared with Polanski. And Frédéric Mitterrand can win the Nobel for literature.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 06:40:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (4.00 / 3)

Headline, "First Lady's Slavery Roots," is rotating on Yahoo! homepage with the Nobel announcement.

NPR radio is trying its damnedest to spin this inexplicable election by comparing Mr Obama's achievement to the other three US president who received the prize. Soon, I reckon, the press will sieze the observation that, although Mr Obama is neither the first black nor first African American man to win it, he is the first black African American president to win it.

I am appalled. Just appalled. And have no ideas at the moment of how to explain this ideal of "peace" to my own child.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 06:45:25 AM EST

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (4.00 / 6)

Kissinger? After Kissinger it was obvious the prize had become a reward for being Very Serious.

The Peace part had become notional - if not explicitly and knowingly ironic.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 06:51:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (none / 1)

beyond the pale

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 07:51:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Norway'sview (4.00 / 8)

In Norway they are totally gob-smacked at what they see as the craven toadying of the committee, which is politically appointed by parliament.

This award is seen purely as a way of ingratiating Norway with the US.

More than half surveyed think that it was wrong to award the prize to Obama and many think he should refuse to accept it.

There is a growing chorus of Norwegians - and not extremists - who think this is the final nail in the coffin of a discredited award.

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 07:07:07 AM EST

Re: Norway'sview (none / 1)

ChrisCook:

This award is seen purely as a way of ingratiating Norway with the US.

For what specific short-term gain?

What does Norway need from Obama in the next 7 (or 3) years?

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 07:10:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Norway'sview (4.00 / 2)

Norway needs backing on the Arctic, clearly. IMHO this should sooner drive them to the EU, but the EU will need to start thinking about the matter.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 07:17:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Norway's View (4.00 / 5)

The Norwegian relationship with the US is worthy of study.

In my view a large part of it is about national pride and recognition, but there's a considerable legacy from the Cold War, and the financial establishment have swallowed the Kool Aid. In the Arctic, there's quite a lot of interaction going on with the Russians.

The Barents Observer is not a bad resource in keeping track of that.

I think that Putin recently intervened to defuse Telenor's problems with typical Russian corporate governance because he knows Norwegian expertise is needed to exploit Arctic gas reserves.

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 08:03:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Norway'sview (none / 0)

he should refuse to accept it.

Oh, absolutely, if he has a centilla of self-respect.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 07:47:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Norway'sview (4.00 / 3)

Perhaps this isn't so much about Obama and more about the world welcoming the US back into the comity of nations aka the civilised world?

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 07:54:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Norway'sview (4.00 / 3)

I don't remember Hirohito getting a Nobel Prize for surrendering unconditionally.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 08:01:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Norway'sview (none / 1)

He doesn't even seem to have been nominated, unlike Mussolini, Hitler (actually the nomination with withdrawn), Stalin, or Peron.

by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 08:10:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Norway'sview (none / 0)

Self-deprecation is a strong trait of Japanese culture.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 08:20:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Norway'sview (none / 1)

Frank ...

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 08:22:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Norway'sview (4.00 / 3)

he should refuse to accept it.
Oh, absolutely, if he has a centilla of self-respect.

Sadly, modesty and humility are not American traits.

by IdiotSavant on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 04:54:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Norway'sview (4.00 / 3)

Excuse me?

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Sat Oct 10th, 2009 at 02:32:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Norway'sview (4.00 / 2)

"Take note, Yurp. Norway knows its place. Is Barack Obama gonna have to choke the rest of you?!"

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 08:01:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Norway'sview (4.00 / 2)

Norway should watch its back, not having given the prize to Chuck Norris.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 08:12:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Too Early (4.00 / 4)

The plans to reduce the nuclear arsenals of the US and Russia is something you could award the prize for, but you might wait until they're being implemented. Or, at least, a treaty has been drafted, signed and ratified.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 07:09:35 AM EST

Re: Too Early (4.00 / 5)

That's not the way the news cycle works. Obama says he wants to work on disarmamament, everyone oohs and aahs, they give him a Nobel Prize and he moves on to ~~fixing~~ saying how he would fix another problem.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 07:13:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Baffling (4.00 / 9)

I must admit, I thought initially that you were making an ironic point. Like, ET chanelling the Onion.

But I checked and, well, it's true. Will he get the Royal Academy of Sweden one next year for bailing out the banks? Then litterature for Dreams from my Father? Then chemistry for his blending of Republicans and Democrats?

Tell you what, any of those might be more justified than the Peace prize.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 07:16:17 AM EST

Re: Baffling (4.00 / 5)

You forgot medicine for his health-care plan (whatever it is).

by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 07:18:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Baffling (4.00 / 2)

Again, one that would be amply more deserved than Peace.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 07:22:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Baffling (none / 1)

But he hasn't achieved anything on Health Care yet... Oh, wait!

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 08:15:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Baffling (4.00 / 2)

Also, had he been under 40, the Fields medal for juggling the figures of the budget would seem in order.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 07:23:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Baffling (4.00 / 4)

How do you know that he's not under 40? Have you seen his birth certificate?

by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 07:24:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Baffling (none / 1)

Did Jesus have a birth cert. not having one seems to be the real trick here...

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 07:27:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Baffling (none / 0)

Surely you jest, nobody has seen his birth certificate. Only the fake one from Hawaii :P

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 08:14:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Baffling (none / 1)

But I checked and, well, it's true.

My checking the serious MSM no doubt!

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 07:25:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Baffling (4.00 / 2)

I had the same reaction. But I didn't check the MSM, but simply when straight to the officalsite.

by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 07:29:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Baffling (none / 0)

You must be a seriously serious person!

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 07:45:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Baffling (none / 0)

Didn't you people follow the link at the top of my story?

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 08:00:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Baffling (4.00 / 2)

It's like Nero winning the Olympics...

by IdiotSavant on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 07:34:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Baffling (none / 1)

Well, Obama didn't raze anything to the ground yet...

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 08:13:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Baffling (none / 1)

can he play the lyre?

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 08:18:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Baffling (none / 1)

Sven - please no liar puns...

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 08:18:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Baffling (none / 1)

No need to harp on about it.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 08:51:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Baffling (none / 0)

I'm not going to let you pull my strings...

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 09:02:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Baffling (none / 1)

Cyrille:

I thought initially that you were making an ironic point. Like, ET chanelling the Onion.

First White House Reaction on Nobel - George's Bottom Line

Two key White House aides were both convinced they were being punked when word came in on their blackberries.
"It's not April 1st, is it?" said one.
President Obama was as surprised as his staff. Robert Gibbs called him with the news a little before 6, and aides say he was "humbled" by the honor.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 09:50:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (none / 1)

While I believe in the whole "carrots rather than sticks" approach to encouraging good behavior (ie diplomacy vs war) - this is rather a reach...lets hope he ends up justifying this choice.

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia

by whataboutbob on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 07:54:40 AM EST

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (none / 1)

Oslo to Obama: "now earn it".

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 08:04:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (4.00 / 2)

"Earn it," ah yep, that strategy worked out very nicely for Mr Gore, didn't it?

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 08:19:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (none / 0)

Ouch.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 08:23:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (none / 1)

Yikes! The snark level is pretty high around here . . .

Pogo: We have met the enemy, and he is us.

by d52boy on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 08:19:13 AM EST

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (none / 0)

ET at its best is the place for delicious, high-minded snark on the Interwebz.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 08:21:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (4.00 / 5)

Potential Onion headline: "Obama strings complete sentence together, wins Nobel."

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 08:21:15 AM EST

Wrong (4.00 / 3)

That's the citation for him winning next year's Nobel for literature

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 09:07:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What's next? "Best Actor"? (4.00 / 4)

"I mean, is the moral level of humankind so low that just not being a war criminal and acting diplomatically is worthy of a Nobel Peace Price?"

Actually, that's about how it is. However, this prize has been a gimmick for decades now. Indeed, Was Wilson really deserving?

But, for me, the questions are, "What now?" An Oscar for "Best Actor"? One or two stars from the Michelin Guide? Elevation to Mount Olympus?

"In such an environment it is not surprising that the ills of technology should seem curable only through the application of more technology..." John W Aldridge

by proximity1 on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 08:27:05 AM EST

Re: What's next? "Best Actor"? (4.00 / 3)

proximity1:

"I mean, is the moral level of humankind so low that just not being a war criminal and acting diplomatically is worthy of a Nobel Peace Price?"
Actually, that's about how it is.

Well, I was thinking this is like the plot of the movie idiocracy. Obama is the regular guy who wakes up 500 years later to find he's the most intelligent man on the planet.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 08:32:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What's next? "Best Actor"? (4.00 / 2)

Does he play golf? can we award him next years Masters trophy already?

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 08:52:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What's next? "Best Actor"? (4.00 / 3)

He does look vaguely like Tiger Woods... Do you think people will notice the difference?

And, yes, he does play golf.

Bill Maher: New Rule: A-hole in One Shouldn't Be Obama's Game

Time magazine is reporting that since he became president, Barack Obama has taken up golf with a passion, playing almost every weekend for the past few months -- and I feel betrayed. He campaigned as a basketball player. It said to us, "I'm urban and athletic and hip and a team player." Golf says, "I like Lipitor and white collar crime." And it's not just golf -- he's been purposefully eating a lot of hamburgers in public lately, to prove he loves meat. And he said that, unlike before he became president, he prays all the time now and that his Faith and Neighbor Initiatives Director sends him scripture on his Blackberry to start every day. Jesus, is there something about that house that turns people into assholes?

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 08:58:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What's next? "Best Actor"? (4.00 / 2)

Although thinking further about it, he's got some serious competition in Kim Jong-Il

Anyone for Tee? - Greatest Round Ever

Eat your heart out Tiger Woods! Stand aside David Duval and Annika Sörenstam! Wake up, Guinness Book of World Records!

Your money, your victories, even your 59's, do not come close to matching the inexplicably unsung exploit of a modest little man from the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK): the Dear Leader, Kim Jong-Il.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 09:25:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What's next? "Best Actor"? (none / 0)

Gimmick is right. It's a more famous version of the "Time magazine man of the year" and not even worth the amount of time everyone here has already spent commenting on it.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 08:51:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What's next? "Best Actor"? (none / 0)

Hey, it's Friday.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 08:52:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (4.00 / 9)

I'm appalled at all the high-minded snark here. B. Hussein Obama is the bestest Preznit the US has had in months. You're all just jealous, cuz we're no. 1.

In fact, this is a perfect example of the Nobel Committee using the latest in post-quantum physics, where the future does indeed create the past. Not one of you has any idea of what he will achieve during his lifetime, and that the Nobels are able to accurately predict his achievements is an achievement in itself.

You might even say this Nobel prize is dynamite.

(For the record, it would be masterful if he returned the prize with a great speech about how so much more needs to be accomplished.)

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 08:53:51 AM EST

Nah (none / 1)

He wants to be the first guy to win it twice...

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 09:33:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nah (4.00 / 3)

The Nobel Medal and Bar

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 09:57:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nah (4.00 / 2)

On the rocks?

I don't usually drink, but this current news cycle is making me rethink that.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 11:52:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nah (none / 0)

I think now I know why people become hermits.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Oct 10th, 2009 at 03:48:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (4.00 / 9)

Can I just point out that this announcement comes on the same day that, apparently, the United States bombed the Moon?

Also, not that any of you need this explained to you, but Time Magazine has a story on why this could hurt Obama.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 09:07:54 AM EST

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (none / 0)

Well it is a hugely expensive firework display, its almost as if they knew he was going to win and were planning to celebrate.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 09:27:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (none / 0)

Cartoon

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 10:34:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The war between France and the UK (none / 0)

By that "logic," the drilling of the tunnel was a war between France and the UK, because, you know, they used explosives.

Similarly CERN is a war between France and the so-called neutral Switzerland, because they destroy perfectly fine French hadrons with violent Swiss particles.

Riiight.

You're a moron. Go away.

A 'centrist' is someone who's neither on the left, nor on the left.

by nicta (nico＠altiva․fr) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 12:17:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The war between France and the UK (none / 0)

Ok sorry maybe you were being sarcastic. There are people who actually believe that crap, however.

A 'centrist' is someone who's neither on the left, nor on the left.

by nicta (nico＠altiva․fr) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 12:18:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's certain that tsp was being (4.00 / 2)

sarcastic. Watch your mouth, please.

paul spencer

by paul spencer (spencerinthegorge AT yahoo DOT com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 12:47:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The war between France and the UK (4.00 / 4)

[ET Moderation Technology™]
It's good that you said sorry; but, even if she had not been sarcastic, don't call anyone moron on ET, not to mention taking yourself the right to tell them to go away.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 12:56:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (none / 1)

Apparently the White House finds this as bizarre as the rest of us:

Two key White House aides were both convinced they were being punked when they heard the news, reported ABC News' George Stephanopoulos. "It's not April 1, is it?" one said.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 09:54:15 AM EST

El Baradei's take (4.00 / 5)

Mohamed ElBaradei, director general of the International Atomic Energy Agency and another former Nobel winner: "In less than a year in office, he has transformed the way we look at ourselves and the world we live in and rekindled hope for a world at peace with itself. He has shown an unshakable commitment to diplomacy, mutual respect and dialogue as the best means of resolving conflicts. He has reached out across divides and made clear that he sees the world as one human family, regardless of religion, race or ethnicity." [BBC via USA Today]

Sounds right to me.

Pogo: We have met the enemy, and he is us.

by d52boy on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 10:23:20 AM EST

Re: El Baradei's take (4.00 / 3)

I thought he was talking about Ahmadinejad....

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 10:57:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Alll scarcasm aside, this is good; social psy (none / 1)

I was (and still am) quite surprised, and would agree with everyone that he does not deserve it at this point.

I think the Nobel committee made a wager, first that it would give him legitimacy to work for the goals stated, but also that it would influence him, through cognitive dissonance, to work for peace.

This is a well established result in social psychology that people who are made to see themselves as having certain qualities tend to behave accordingly.

A 'centrist' is someone who's neither on the left, nor on the left.

by nicta (nico＠altiva․fr) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 12:14:59 PM EST

Re: Alll scarcasm aside, this is good; social psy (4.00 / 3)

Like the Krugman Nobel - it's a pat on the head for appearing to be good, and a suggestion that more of the being good would be welcome.

This doesn't make it any less insane.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 12:24:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Alll scarcasm aside, this is good; social psy (none / 1)

They are not celebrating B.O.'s non existent achievements, they are encouraging him to deliver on what he has promised, most lately in his speech in Cairo. In effect they are taking a proactive role, hoping to nudge him into doing the right thing.

You can be cynical and believe anything he claims to stand for as yet another list of empty promises. I certainly don't believe in fairies and angles myself. It doesn't do anyone any good, though. It's more productive to wager that there's a chance, however tiny, that he means well and that he might do good. That's not something you could even begin to contemplate for a Bush, a Sarkozy or a Berlusconi.

Sure, he's likely to turn out like a Bliar. But by giving him the Nobel prize, they could tap in a well known phenomenon in social psychology, the forces of cognitive dissonance, whereby someone tends to behave according to the way one sees oneself.

I disagree with Chomsky when he says he's proven to be no different than the Bush clique. The fact is, assuming Obama is well meaning and want to change things, he cannot do things much differently than what he's doing now. He's not a dictator, and there are powerful forces perpetuating the fucked up status quo in US politics. Take the militaro-industrial complex; it'd be great if he could instantly stop wasting hundreds of billions in military spending a year. But weapon makers have made sure to place their factories all over the States, making sure that every single plant closure will be opposed by the local senators / congressmen.

By giving him that prize, they are giving him a responsibility. He might just be ever so slightly more likely to oppose the militaro industrial complex. Or not. But it's better than nothing.

A 'centrist' is someone who's neither on the left, nor on the left.

by nicta (nico＠altiva․fr) on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 03:47:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Alll scarcasm aside, this is good; social psy (4.00 / 2)

Uh? I can't see many recipients (or non-recipients) in the history of the Royal Academy of Sweden prize who were worthier of it than Paul Krugman.

Unless the requisite is to create a theory that proves to be entirely wrong at every point.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Sat Oct 10th, 2009 at 03:44:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (4.00 / 3)

"Its their prize and can give it where they want to, give it where they want to, give it where they want to..."

(Sung to, "Its my party and I'll cry if I want to" ;))

What the heck, I think its a good thing, and Obama was both gracious and humble in acknowledging that this is bigger than him. Lets see what happens next...(and I love it that the right-wingers are absolutely apoplectic about this...)

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia

by whataboutbob on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 02:12:34 PM EST

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (4.00 / 2)

Yes, Obama was humble. But, I couldn't help but cringe reading his references to American leadership.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 05:02:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush (none / 1)

Whitehouse.gov: REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT ON WINNING THE NOBEL PEACE PRIZE

Well, this is not how I expected to wake up this morning. After I received the news, Malia walked in and said, "Daddy, you won the Nobel Peace Prize, and it is Bo's birthday!" And then Sasha added, "Plus, we have a three-day weekend coming up." So it's good to have kids to keep things in perspective.

LOL

I am both surprised and deeply humbled by the decision of the Nobel Committee. Let me be clear: I do not view it as a recognition of my own accomplishments

of which there are not enough?

but rather as an affirmation of American leadership on behalf of aspirations held by people in all nations.

Yes, clearly the Nobel Prize was given to Obama on behalf of the Americans who elected a sane President after 8 years.

But I also know that this prize reflects the kind of world that those men and women, and all Americans, want to build -- a world that gives life to the promise of our founding documents. And I know that throughout history, the Nobel Peace Prize has not just been used to honor specific achievement; it's also been used as a means to give momentum to a set of causes. And that is why I will accept this award as a call to action -- a call for all nations to confront the common challenges of the 21st century.

This is good.

But the whole thing is such a transparent media manipulation...

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Oct 10th, 2009 at 03:57:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Parasitic globalism (none / 1)

outs itself via excessive polishing of puppet turd!

by Lasthorseman on Fri Oct 9th, 2009 at 02:41:11 PM EST

Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush | 114 comments (114 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Go to: [ European Tribune Homepage : Top of page : Top of comments ]

Obama wins Nobel Prize for not being Bush

Top Diaries

The importance of being England

The cost of doing business

The seven deadly sins of the DUP

British Anglicanism, Disinformation and Harry

The Protocol and the Founding Principles of the EU

City Agriculture - January 19, 2023

No Peace In Sight

Mandatory Solar

Recent Diaries

We Are All From Mars Now

The seven deadly sins of the DUP

The cost of doing business

The importance of being England

US War Powers, Regime Change and Third Option

US War Powers, Regime Change -- Part 2

US War Powers, Regime Change -- Part 1

City Agriculture - January 19, 2023

War In Ukraine A Failed Process by NATO

No Peace In Sight

Another Execution

The Protocol and the Founding Principles of the EU

Judeo-Fascism Arises - Kahane

Baerbock Solidair with UA in Kharkiv

Mary Robinson and Fallacy of War and Peace

British Anglicanism, Disinformation and Harry

The Politics of Inequality: A Political History of the Idea...

Israel Campaign of Illegal Acts w Impunity

Mandatory Solar

No Peace on West's Mind or Vocabulary