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Electoral Reform in the UK

by IdiotSavant Tue Dec 1st, 2009 at 08:10:22 PM EST

From No Right Turn - New Zealand's liberal blog:

After a decade of broken promises, the UK's Labour government is finally moving on electoral reform, announcing that they will pass a law before the election requiring a vote on the electoral system within two years.  Of course, New Labour being New Labour it is being done for all the wrong reasons:

Ministers, who agreed the move at a meeting of the cabinet's democratic renewal committee (DRC) yesterday, believe that the prospect of a referendum will have three key benefits. It will:

  • Allow Labour to depict itself at the general election as the party of reform in response to the parliamentary expenses scandal.

  • Make David Cameron look like a defender of the status quo. The Tories, who are opposed to abolishing the first-past-the-post system, would have to introduce fresh legislation to block the referendum if they win the election.

  • Increase the chances that the Liberal Democrats will support Labour - or at least not support the Tories - if no party wins an overall majority at the election, resulting in a hung parliament. The Lib Dems have traditionally regarded the introduction of PR as their key demand in any coalition negotiations. While AV does not technically count as PR, many Lib Dems regard AV as a step in the right direction.

Not what's missing from this list: anything to do with the actual fairness of the electoral system.  just another example of how under New labour, policy is just a rhetorical prop for spin.

But then, their "reform" - the "alternative vote", AKA preferential voting - is the electoral reform you have when you don't really want electoral reform and doesn't actually fix the core problem of disproportional results (just look at any Australian election for evidence of this).  But it is some improvement, in that it makes FPP slightly less broken while preserving its worst feature of large manufactured majorities, and if we're lucky, it will force a wider debate on a real alternative, rather than the pallid tripe New Labour is offering up.


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They are voting to require a vote by the next parliament?

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 02:48:35 AM EST
Well, to require a referendum.  So the public will get to approve or vote down the shit New Labour will offer up.
by IdiotSavant on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 05:19:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Labour plans to guarantee referendum on electoral system reform | Politics | guardian.co.uk
Gordon Brown is to introduce a law to guarantee that a re-elected Labour government would hold a referendum within two years on abolishing Britain's first-past-the-post system for elections to the Westminster parliament.
How do you guarantee something only in the event that Labour wins? What kind of a law is that?

Labour plans to guarantee referendum on electoral system reform | Politics | guardian.co.uk

Some traditionalists support AV because it would preserve the 650 constituencies that will be in place in the next parliament. They oppose purer forms of proportional representation (PR) because they would lead to the creation of larger multi-member constituencies or the abolition of constituencies altogether if a national list system were introduced.
I would also oppose national party lists, but the fact is that the London Assembly already uses an Additional Member system with FPTP for constituencies. The advantage of additional member systems is that they remove the need for constant re-districting.

My personal favourite system is an additional member system with single-transferable vote for constituencies. And a pony, too.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 05:31:39 AM EST
Migeru:
How do you guarantee something only in the event that Labour wins? What kind of a law is that?

No law at all. A constant conventional principle of British constitutional law is that no Parliament can bind its successor.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 05:36:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But you can pass a law that something will happen (such as a referendum) on a certain date. Then that is the law, unless Parliament passes a law changing it. I think this is the idea, though why the law might be changed only if Labour loses escapes me.
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 06:26:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
'Cause NuLab promised that you'll get a pony!

Surely they wouldn't back out of that promise, right? Right?

After all, they've never broken a campaign promise before... well, not on this particular issue, at least... Oh, nevermind.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 03:34:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The reason why Brown needs something firmer than merely a promise is that Labour promised an electoral reform referendum, both in its 1997 and 2001 manifestoes, but have never held one.

Blair did not realise he would win so easily in 1997. He thought that he might need Lib Dem support, so included the referendum idea as a pre-emptive sweetener to any deal. The long term object seems to have been to form a coalition and then replace the socialists in the Labour Party with Lib Dems, so as to create a New Labour Party. This would reverse the split in the British centre-left, which took place in the early 20th century with the original rise of the Labour Party.

In fact Blair won so big that he could not plausibly offer a coalition to the Lib Dems. He did form a joint committee between Labour and Lib Dem leaders, which did some useful work on constitutional issues but deadlocked on electoral reform for the House of Commons.

To keep the Lib Dems hopeful, Lord Jenkins was asked to do a report on a new electoral system which could be proposed at the putative electoral referendum.

Jenkins produced the truly dreadful AV+ system, which combined single member constituencies using the alternative vote and a minor top up element based on one or two list seats per county or city area. The effect of this system would probably have been to gerrymander the electoral system against the Conservative Party. The Tories would probably have lost more constituency seats than they would have gained (as at the time most Labour and LibDem voters would have preferred either of those parties to the Conservative Party), without the top up element being large enough to produce a fair overall result.

However despite watering down proportional representation, almost to the vanishing point, Jenkins proposals did not lead to a referendum.

The only merit of some change is that might lead to a gradual expansion of fair votes, on the model of the expansion of the franchise in stages during the 19th century.

However, since 1997 and the Jenkins report, we now have much more experience of proportional electoral systems in the UK, so I do not see why we should be saddled with either AV or AV+.

by Gary J on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 11:02:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Gary J:
However, since 1997 and the Jenkins report, we now have much more experience of proportional electoral systems in the UK, so I do not see why we should be saddled with either AV or AV+.
I find an additional-member system with alternative vote on small constituencies and sufficient top-up seata on a national party list superior to party-list proportional representation.

One of the key advantages of top-up seats is that it removes the need for redistricting to ensure all constituencies are of roughly the same size. And small constituencies with alternative vote ensure that elected representatives have a local connection.

With party lists, candidates are loyal to the party apparatus, not to the constituents. And if you have party lists on, say, regional constituencies (as in the European elections in the UK) you get serious distortion of proportionality against small parties.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 11:10:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
With party lists, candidates are loyal to the party apparatus, not to the constituents.

Is this a bad thing?

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 05:49:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, because then the constituents have no way to really influence their government than by changing the party apparatuses. Which tends to be rather difficult.

Refer to the famous gruk "Majority rule".

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 06:07:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There is a fairly simple expedient for changing the party apparatus: Vote for a different party.

If you have a genuine proportional representation system, you can have a multi-party system, in which voting for another party actually makes sense. Now, if you cannot keep a genuine multi-party system alive even with proportional representation, then I think your version of democracy has bigger problems than politicians' accountability to their constituents.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 08:51:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Spain does have a heavily distorted proportional representation system.

However, there are a number of representative constituencies where a large number of seats are apportioned by the d'Hondt method on a single list. However, even in those there is a strong tendency towards bipartidism.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Dec 15th, 2009 at 04:58:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This from November 27...

Bono pide una nueva ley electoral que reste poder a las cúpulas de partidos · ELPAÍS.com[Speaker of the Spanish Congreso] José Bono demands a new electoral law diminishing the power of party leadership
En un desayuno coloquio organizado en Barcelona por el Fórum Europa, Bono ha apostado por cambiar a fondo la "estructura" de los partidos políticos en general y modificar un sistema electoral que, a su juicio, "conduce sobre todo a reforzar el poder de la cúpula de los partidos, cuando no de uno, dos o tres dirigentes".In a breakfast colloquium organised in Barcelona by the Fórum Europa, Bono has advocated an in-depth change in the"structure" of political parties in general, and a modification of [the current] electoral system which, in his opinion, "leads above all to reinforcing the power of the party leadership, if not that of one, two, or three leaders".
No ha detallado cuál sería la mejor fórmula para corregir esta tendencia e incluso ha opinado que implantar un sistema de listas abiertas, como en la elección de los senadores, no resolvería el problema, aunque sí ha apuntado que posiblemente sería pertinente introducir algunos elementos del sistema uninominal británico.He didn't go into details of what the best formula would be to correct this tendency and has even opined that implanting an open-list system such as the one for Senate elections, would not solve the problem, though he has indicated that it would probably be appropriate to introduce some elements of the British single-seat system.
Según Bono, hay que conseguir que "los electos se encuentren más cerca de los elegidos", de manera que, "para cualquier diputado que aspire a continuar, sea más rentable ganar el favor de los electores que el del jefe de filas que hace las candidaturas".According to Bono, the goal should be that "elected representatives find themselves closer to the electors", so that "for any deputy aspiring to continue, it is more profitable to win the favour of the electors than of the leader of the party who makes the candidate lists".


En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 06:21:17 AM EST


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