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Sexism In Koran Demonstrated

by Patrice Ayme Thu Apr 23rd, 2009 at 08:36:44 AM EST

Abstract: I extracted all the significant sentences in the Qur'an having to do with women, and put them below. (I use occasionally the older "Koran" instead of the more correct "Qur'an"; Only a few technical administrative like details about how to manage women have been omitted.) Those who apply the Qur'an to the letter are in violation with Human Rights as defined by the Charter of the United Nations.
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THE QUR'AN IS OUTRAGEOUSLY SEXIST.
ITS INCOMPATIBILITY WITH WESTERN CIVILIZATION RUNS DEEP

THE QUR'AN SAYS THAT RAPING WOMEN IS RIGHT BECAUSE THEY ARE PASSIVE "FIELDS IN WHICH TO PLOW":
After general salutations in Surah 1, and the introduction of Allah, and His "Messenger", Muhammad, the Qur'an starts for real with Surah 2, by far the longest in the Qur'an. It is called "The Cow". The Cow has four verses on women. Two are innocuous, two are abusive.

"It's OK to have sex with your wives on the night of the fast." [Surah 2; verse187]. "Menstruation is a sickness. Don't have sex with menstruating women." [S. 2; v. 222]. "WOMEN ARE YOUR FIELDS SO GO THEN INTO YOUR FIELDS AS YOU WANT. [S.2: v. 223]. "Women have rights that are similar to men, but men have a status above them." 2:228. "A woman is worth one-half a man." 2:282.

Thus it can be perceived, as soon as The Cow, early in the Koran, that once a woman is the possession of a man (it could be a wife, or a "slave girl", a concept ubiquitous in the Qur'an, not just in Southern American plantations of the eighteen century), she has no right in refusing sex. The Afghan law 132 just states this fact. It would seem that Obama, although "not at war with Islam", finds it "abhorrent".
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QUR'AN: WOMEN ARE SEX WIDGETS:
"All married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess."
You can't have sex with married women, unless they are slaves obtained in war (with whom you may rape or do whatever you like). 4:24. "Marry the women, who seem good to you, two or three or four." 4:3.  
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QUR'AN: DON'T FORGET TO PUNISH WOMEN:
Lewd women are to be confined to their houses until death. 4:15. You may not forcibly inherit women, unless they are flagrantly lewd. 4:19. "All married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess (slaves)." 4.24.

MEN ARE IN CHARGE OF WOMEN, BECAUSE ALLAH MADE MEN TO BE BETTER THAN WOMEN. Refuse to have sex with women from whom you fear rebellion, and beat them up. 4:34.

4: 35. Men are guardians over women because Allah has made some of them excel others, and because men spend on them of their wealth. So virtuous women are obedient...

Lot offers his daughters to a mob of angel rapers. 11:78. When the doom of Allah comes, pregnant women will suffer miscarriages, nursing mothers with forget their babies. 22:1-2. The wives of Muhammad will be punished double for lewdness. (And that is easy for Allah.) 33:30. The wives of Muhammad are not like other women. They must not leave their houses. 33:32-33. The wives of Noah and Lot (who were both righteous) betrayed their husbands and are now in the Fire. 66:10. Muhammad's wives need to be careful. If they criticize their husband, Allah will replace them with better ones. 66:5.    
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QUR'AN: WOMEN ARE PLAIN DISGUSTING:
Don't pray if you are drunk, dirty, or have touched a woman lately. 4:43. When it's time to pray and you have just used the toilet or touched a woman, be sure to wash up. If you can't find any water, just rub some dirt on yourself. 5:6.

"The GUILE OF YOU WOMEN... IS VERY GREAT." 12:28.
Those who disbelieve in the afterlife give female names to angels. 53:27. YOUR WIVES AND CHILDREN ARE YOUR ENEMIES. They are to you only a temptation. 64:14-15 [That idea comes straight from Jesus, a prophet of Islam.]  
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QUR'AN: WOMEN ARE FEEBLE MINDED AND ARE UNABLE TO DEVISE A PLAN. [Surah 4; verse 98].
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QUR'AN: STEAL WOMEN:
There is no blame on you if you divorce women when you have not... appointed for them a portion, and make provision for them... (this is) a duty on the doers of good (to others).[2.236]. Males are to inherit TWICE AS MUCH as females. 4:11. "Unto the male is the equivalent share of two females." 4:176.
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QUR'AN: SEXISM IS GOOD:
A man cannot treat his wives fairly. 4:129.

MEN AND WOMEN ARE ENEMIES! [Surah 7: verse 24].

If you accuse an honorable women of adultery, be sure to bring four witness. Otherwise you will receive 80 lashes. 24:4. A husband can accuse his wife of adultery with only one witness. 24:6 .
You don't have to be modest around your wives or your slave girls "that your right hand possess." 23:6. Believing women must lower their gaze and be modest, cover themselves with veils, and not reveal themselves except to their husbands, relatives, children, and slaves. 24:31. Prophet, enjoin your wives, your daughters and the wives of true believers to draw their veils close around them. 33:59.
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MUHAMMAD HANKY PANKY:
Allah gave Zeyd to Muhammad in marriage. This was so that all Muslims would know that it's OK to marry your adopted son's ex-wife. 33:37. Allah says it is lawful for Muhammad to marry any women he wants. 33:50-51. When Allah or Muhammad decide that a man and a woman should marry, they must marry. 33:36. If men must speak to Muhammad's wives they must speak from behind a curtain. And no one must ever marry one of his wives. 33:53.
But it's OK for Muhammad's wives to talk with certain people. 33:55 If Muhammad's wives are good, Allah will give them "an immense reward." 33:28-29. O Prophet! Why bannest thou that which Allah hath made lawful for thee, seeking to please thy wives?"
Allah says it's OK for Muhammad to have sex with any of his wives whenever he wants. 66:1.Muhammad's wives need to be careful. If they criticize their husband, Allah will replace them with better ones. 66:5  
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APPRECIATION FOR HUMAN FEMALES:
Virgins await those who enter paradise. 4:57.
But the single-minded slaves of Allah will enjoy a Garden filled with lovely-eyed virgins. 37:40-48
Female companions await those who enter the Gardens of Eden on the Day of Reckoning. 38:52  
Allah will reward faithful Muslims after they die with "fair ones with wide, lovely eyes." 44.54
Those in the Garden will be attended by immortal youths with wide, lovely eyes. 56. 17-23
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NOT TO SAY MUHAMMAD WAS NOT A COURAGEOUS PROGRESSIST:
The parts of the Arabian desert that neither the Greco-Romans nor the Christians or Jews had penetrated yet were savage and cruel. Muhammad fought a lot of that successfully. For example, it was traditional to bury alive infant girls. The Qur'an condemns this:
"And when the one buried alive it is asked for what sin she was killed," (81:8-9).

In truth, the Qur'an as we know it was ordered by Uthman, the third successor of Muhammad, the greatest emperor of his time. This was extrmely opposed at the time: a coup developped against Uthman, and he was assasinated, or executed for it. The situation degenerated into a civil war that last to this day. So Obama's statement that:"  " on the face of it, means nothing. The literal interpretation of the Qur'an was pushed by oil wealth and Saudis, long with the full approval of the USA (especially to fight, France, Britain or the USSR, or divide South Asia).

There are excellent reasons to believe that Muhammad would have been seriously irrate about the Qur'an we have presently (there are plenty of aspects of His personality in the Hadith, which, concurrently with known fact of His life, depict Him as very advanced, especially about the condition of women. That puts the rest of the Qur'an under suspicion.)  'Aisha, Muhammad beloved child-bride went to war about the sexism in the Qur'an. As she said: "It is not good that you people have made us (women) equal to dogs and donkeys." [Hadith, Volume 1, Book 9, Number 498.]
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THE UN CHARTER CONTRADICTS THE QUR'AN:

The United Nations Charter, is an overgrowth of the "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity". The Quranic instructions above, which, once again are ALL instructions in the Koran relative to women, form a clear picture of complete violation of all the first seven articles of the Declaration of Human Rights of the United Nations.

"Now, Therefore THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY proclaims THIS UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS as a common standard of achievement for all peoples and all nations, to the end that every individual and every organ of society, keeping this Declaration constantly in mind, shall strive by teaching and education to promote respect for these rights and freedoms and by progressive measures, national and international, to secure their universal and effective recognition and observance, both among the peoples of Member States themselves and among the peoples of territories under their jurisdiction.

Article 1. All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

Article 2. Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

Article 3. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

Article 4. No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.

Article 5. No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

Article 6. Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.

Article 7. All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.
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THUS, THE QUR'AN IS AN ANTI WESTERN CIVILIZATION RECIPE BOOK:
The Qur'an explicitly contradicts the STATE OF LAW, central to Western civilization for more than two millennia. That principle is that all adults, even the monarch (if any) are equivalent in the eyes of the law. It is central to the present civilization. The fascist principle, the Fuererprinzip, is verse 59 of Surah 4 of the Qur'an (and that maybe where Hitler found it). It says the leader should be viewed as God, as long as he is a Muslim.

This should put to rest the issue of violation of the rights of women by the Qur'an.  The Qur'an does not treat married women equally, and expect women in general to often be "slave girls", or "those that your right hand possess". A woman captured in war, even if married, is totally owned and has no human rights whatsoever. Women should be covered, beaten and confined, as soon as found morally short. In which case one can seize their property. Sometimes women are only allowed to speak behind a 'curtain", and are forbidden to leave the house. Why not? Women are "enemies", it's that simple. Why should enemies go school? When Obama says he loves Islam, shortly after saying that he wants girls to go to school, he is obviously contradicting himself.

Now, true, not all Muslims follow the Qur'an. Many of the outlying areas (Senegal, Indonesia) had interpretations that used to avoid a literal interpretation of the Qur'an. These interpretations should be the only allies the West can trust. Unfortunately, oil money and clout, plus CIA pro-religious extremist machinations, have increasingly brought a renaissance of the literal interpretation of the Qur'an. The bombing campaign of the USA, all the way to Pakistan, can only make the situation worse.
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Patrice Ayme
http://patriceayme.wordpress.com/

Display:
This is all pretty funny-crazy - most of it seems to be a cut-and-paste from the Bible - but this bit is laugh-out-loud funny:

The Qur'an explicitly contradicts the STATE OF LAW, central to Western civilization for more than two millennia.

In what alternate universe? You miss the bit about the divine right of kings? Do you know any history at all? Fuck, do you remember the Imperial Presidency thingy from like, last week?

I'm sorely tempted to simply delete this diary on grounds that its no more than an attempt to dehumanise Muslims.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Apr 23rd, 2009 at 09:23:44 AM EST
I wish there was an anti-recommend button for diaries.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Apr 23rd, 2009 at 09:24:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If something is disagreable, it should not be mentioned? Never mentioned Auschwitz, all fine?

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/
by Patrice Ayme on Thu Apr 23rd, 2009 at 06:03:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Depends how it's mentioned, doesn't it? I rather doubt you'd be very happy with a diary that blamed Auschwitz on the Jews or claimed it never happened.

Everyone knows, or should know, that the source books of all the Abrahamaic religions are mostly bloody appalling to modern values. This is not news. The way you've presented this looks very much like an attempt to set-up Islam as the religion of "the other".

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Apr 24th, 2009 at 02:36:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Neither divine rights of kings nor divine Bush presidency respected the State of Law, not does the Qur'an so what do I fail to remember?

Bush ought to be punished. I remind you the French and british kings got seriously shortened, after the State of Law got finally applied. And it was at the root of the creation of the USA (tax without rep violated the state of Law).
PA

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/

by Patrice Ayme on Sun Apr 26th, 2009 at 05:26:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
European Tribune - Sexism In Koran Demonstrated
The fascist principle, the Fuererprinzip, is verse 59 of Surah 4 of the Qur'an (and that maybe where Hitler found it).
What?

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Apr 23rd, 2009 at 09:32:26 AM EST
Read slowly.

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/
by Patrice Ayme on Sun Apr 26th, 2009 at 05:26:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
BibleGateway.com - Passage Lookup: Leviticus 27:1-7;
Leviticus 27:1-7 (New International Version)

Leviticus 27 Redeeming What Is the LORD's  1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'If anyone makes a special vow to dedicate persons to the LORD by giving equivalent values, 3 set the value of a male between the ages of twenty and sixty at fifty shekels [a] of silver, according to the sanctuary shekel [b] ; 4 and if it is a female, set her value at thirty shekels. [c] 5 If it is a person between the ages of five and twenty, set the value of a male at twenty shekels [d] and of a female at ten shekels. [e] 6 If it is a person between one month and five years, set the value of a male at five shekels [f] of silver and that of a female at three shekels [g] of silver. 7 If it is a person sixty years old or more, set the value of a male at fifteen shekels [h] and of a female at ten shekels.



Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Apr 23rd, 2009 at 09:37:13 AM EST
Clearly the bible is outrageously sexist. Its incompatibility with western civilization runs deep.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Thu Apr 23rd, 2009 at 04:36:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thank god we never based our civilization on its crazy teachings!  

"Talking nonsense is the sole privilege mankind possesses over the other organisms." -Dostoevsky
by poemless on Thu Apr 23rd, 2009 at 04:41:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And I haven't even quoted the counterparts of
"Menstruation is a sickness. Don't have sex with menstruating women." [S. 2; v. 222].
because I found them too tasteless for comfort.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Apr 24th, 2009 at 04:07:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I could not agree more. But subject was Qur'an.

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/
by Patrice Ayme on Fri Apr 24th, 2009 at 08:30:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Why are you singling it out?

At any rate, methinks your subject was Muslims, not the Qur'an...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Apr 24th, 2009 at 10:25:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks. Leviticus not the law anywhere, though...

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/
by Patrice Ayme on Sun Apr 26th, 2009 at 05:27:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not for lack of people advocating it, both in the Christian "West" and in Israel.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Apr 26th, 2009 at 05:28:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
THE KORAN IS THE SOURCE TEXT FOR A TRADITIONAL RELIGION!

Regardless of what adherents or critics think or believe, it cannot be fully or properly understood or evaluated when isolated from the cultural context of its time.  Attempting to evaluate it in terms of the very imperfectly realized ideals of any of our contemporary "western" societies is dubious at best.  There is a word for such attempts: historicism.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Apr 23rd, 2009 at 11:19:52 AM EST
ARGeezer:
There is a word for such attempts: historicism.
Or is it anachronism?

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Apr 23rd, 2009 at 11:24:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That too.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Apr 23rd, 2009 at 01:07:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
E-valuate means to find the value. If you say we can't evaluate, you are claiming Muslims cannot evaluate their own religion, either, or are living fossils. And we cannot decry the lack of value in sexism, either, on the ground it was invented in past times.

Maybe "historicism" is a concept that should not be used in connection with a system of ideas followed by 1.5 billion people alive today.
PA

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/

by Patrice Ayme on Fri Apr 24th, 2009 at 08:36:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
LOL. By the same brush, you are one of the 2 billion people alive today who follow a system of ideas that can be attacked by dissecting the... Bible.

...or what was your "Western Civilisation" about?...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Apr 24th, 2009 at 10:28:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Contrarily to what people (and many philosophers, but not Nietzche!) usually think. Christianity nearly devoured civilization, before the Franks changed it from brain challenged crocodile into formidable Trojan horse.

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/
by Patrice Ayme on Fri May 1st, 2009 at 11:32:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Criticizing a group or sub-group in terms derived from a culture alien to them is seldom productive of anything but gratification of the self-righteousness of those making the criticism.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Fri Apr 24th, 2009 at 12:10:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
it's a book.

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/
by Patrice Ayme on Fri May 1st, 2009 at 11:33:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Koran" is the constitution in plenty of so called "Muslim" countries. There is a word of not seeing this: denialism.

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/
by Patrice Ayme on Sun Apr 26th, 2009 at 05:37:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
THIS DIARY IS AN INSULT TO MY INTELLIGENCE.

And stop shouting.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Apr 23rd, 2009 at 11:41:01 AM EST
It's not a diary, it's an extract from God. Respect please.

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/
by Patrice Ayme on Fri Apr 24th, 2009 at 08:37:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Now you're being facetious.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Apr 24th, 2009 at 08:53:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I agree that the Qur'an is a grave insult against women, and their intelligence. (There is a sura I quoted about women being simpletons)

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/
by Patrice Ayme on Sun Apr 26th, 2009 at 05:40:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
and please try not to order people around, or then read 100 times Qur'an s 4, v 59...

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/
by Patrice Ayme on Fri May 1st, 2009 at 11:34:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's odd.  I don't like religion.  I agree that the Abrahamic religions are steeped in sexism and all kinds of ignorant thinking.  And yet, I am thoroughly appalled by this diary.  Amazing.  You know what you should do?  Turn that critical eye you've been aiming at Islam and take a long hard look at the west.  But then you might end up all anti-western civilization like the scary Muslims....

"Talking nonsense is the sole privilege mankind possesses over the other organisms." -Dostoevsky
by poemless on Thu Apr 23rd, 2009 at 11:58:38 AM EST
Quoting the Qur'an, as I did does not mean I approve eveyrthing from the West. First of all I disagree with all Western politics versus Muslims. I think the war in Afghanistan is deeply immoral and idiotic.

PA

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/

by Patrice Ayme on Fri Apr 24th, 2009 at 08:39:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What is the point of quoting the Qur'an?...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Apr 24th, 2009 at 10:29:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Qur'an = Constitution of AFGHANISTAN.

Nato soldiers: fighters for Qur'an then.

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/

by Patrice Ayme on Sun Apr 26th, 2009 at 05:42:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
than scary, and scared sheep. Easy to do. First, I don't bleat... Same way as they all do...

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/
by Patrice Ayme on Fri May 1st, 2009 at 11:37:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There are a lot of things I find disappointing about this diary, from quotes taken out of context (and without even a citation of the translation!), to unsupported generalizations, to one-sided, and IMO somewhat theatrical, outrage. But it's late, so I'll keep my comment short. Just one thing:

European Tribune - Sexism In Koran Demonstrated

The Qur'an explicitly contradicts the STATE OF LAW

Is NOT TRUE. Islam is ALL ABOUT law, as derived from the Qu'ran and the life of Mohamed and his companions as related in hadith (so my summary and paraphrasing of a fairly respected authority).

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman

by dvx (dvx.clt št gmail dotcom) on Thu Apr 23rd, 2009 at 04:41:42 PM EST
Shariah is not law, it's superstition. State of law was defined by empress and Augusta Galla Placidia, and Shariah does not respect it. Nor understand it. Islam is all about big mafioso in the sky, not about subtilities.

The argument that my text was not written in Arabic, I am familiar with. It's tantamount of being able to charactize Hitler only in German, or stalin only in Cyrillic, and Mao in Mandarin. And never talk about monkeys, except in monkey language.

PA

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/

by Patrice Ayme on Fri Apr 24th, 2009 at 08:44:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Patrice Ayme:
Shariah is not law, it's superstition.

In the meantime...

Sharia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Sharia (Arabic: '‎شريعة transliteration: Šarīʿah) is the body of Islamic religious law. The term means "way" or "path to the water source"; it is the legal framework within which the public and private aspects of life are regulated for those living in a legal system based on fiqh (Islamic principles of jurisprudence) and for Muslims living outside the domain. Sharia deals with many aspects of day-to-day life, including politics, economics, banking, business, contracts, family, sexuality, hygiene, and social issues.
by Nomad on Fri Apr 24th, 2009 at 10:19:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sure, but it does not respect the fundamental idea of Roman law, equality of all in front of the law. Absent this,  ifeel free to not call it law, considering it is not compatible with the Human Rights Declaration.

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/
by Patrice Ayme on Sun Apr 26th, 2009 at 11:43:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Roman law? Equality for everyone except slaves, foreigners and women?
by generic on Sun Apr 26th, 2009 at 11:56:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Patrice Ayme:
Absent this,  ifeel free to not call it law, considering it is not compatible with the Human Rights Declaration.

Compatibility with the UDHR is an interesting discussion, but will need far more nuance and argumentation than a offhand dismissal of Sharia Law as law. It's a typical western trademark to declare what comes from the west as the universal be-all and end-all. In some form it's called colonialism. I do hope we've moved away from such arrogance.

by Nomad on Sun Apr 26th, 2009 at 01:31:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Colonialism involves colons.

Law means Roman derived law, and the principle it applies to all equally. It's not Nazi law. I am zero Western arrogant, quite the opposite actually.

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/

by Patrice Ayme on Mon Apr 27th, 2009 at 02:29:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Islam is all about big mafioso in the sky

As opposed to a big mafioso in an imerial palace?... At any rate, that Empress was followed by the Christian version of the sharia in our glorious Western Civilisation, so I don't get what you talk about.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Apr 24th, 2009 at 10:32:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Christian law ruled Boston, and Espana, for a while, but not the main stream of Western Civilization, the Franks and their derivative regimes (including the USA).

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/
by Patrice Ayme on Sun Apr 26th, 2009 at 11:44:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
With respect to the immediate issue at hand, Nomad has quite elegantly preempted my reply.

More broadly though, you seem to be implying that law is an invention of the western (Latin) world. Aside from Islamic jurisprudence, you are implicitly denying that e.g. China or Japan (or for that matter the ancient Hebrews) had a legal tradition prior to the Roman empire.

That appears patently absurd to me.

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman

by dvx (dvx.clt št gmail dotcom) on Fri Apr 24th, 2009 at 01:20:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nazis also had a legal tradition. Do you think it's patently absurd to rule it out, as I do?

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/
by Patrice Ayme on Sun Apr 26th, 2009 at 11:46:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
themselves. Japan and China, and India, have adopted the WESTERN EUROPEAN mainstream model of law (not the Inquisition, not barbarian Anglo law).

They adopted roughly the secular part of the Justinian code, like the Franks did first.

Ghandi was a Western European lawyer, and India would have done much better if he had stayed in Western uniform too, with a jacket and a tie (instead of going around in a sort of toga, pushing a sort of wheel that were highly offensive to Muslims)

PA

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/

by Patrice Ayme on Fri May 1st, 2009 at 11:45:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Heard of the law of the jungle too?

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/
by Patrice Ayme on Sun Apr 26th, 2009 at 05:43:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This differs from the Torah and Paul's letters in which precise way?

All those ancient religious texts can be made to say anything and everything you want them to, if you just know which bits to quote.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Apr 24th, 2009 at 07:36:43 AM EST
So it is with Mein Kampf.

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/
by Patrice Ayme on Fri Apr 24th, 2009 at 08:45:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That would not surprise me, given that its author does not strike me as a model of intellectual coherence. Although since it is a political tract written by a single author, as opposed to a work of mysticism cobbled together over decades by a number of contributors, I would expect rather greater coherence than in - say - the Old Testament.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Apr 24th, 2009 at 08:51:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Example? Anyway, true my mind is very diverse...

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/
by Patrice Ayme on Sun Apr 26th, 2009 at 11:47:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"The author" referred to above would be the author of Mein Kampf, not the author of this diary. Although now that you mention it, the diary does strike me as something of an incoherent tract more than an analysis...

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Apr 26th, 2009 at 06:40:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Are you calling Christians and Jews Nazis?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Apr 24th, 2009 at 10:33:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
by Sassafras on Fri Apr 24th, 2009 at 04:38:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It often works very well, like to shut down those who say all cultures are equally valid.

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/
by Patrice Ayme on Sun Apr 26th, 2009 at 11:48:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hard racism comes to the ET...

From Talmud Exegesis to Koran Exegesis, thats the trajectory of European racism.

Enough to say goodbye, I guess I won't be visiting a place anymore that would print this malicious neo-fascist bullshit.

by antonymous on Fri Apr 24th, 2009 at 07:29:53 PM EST
I hope you would reconsider that decision - assuming that you're reading this comment, of course...

A diary on a community blog is not a letter to the editor - it does not go through any editorial review process prior to being published. So the diaries posted do not represent an editorial line any more than the comment threads do, unless they're frontpaged.

Editorial review comes in the form of community policing and (occasionally) post hoc moderator intervention, and judging by the present comment thread community policing seems to be alive and well.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Apr 25th, 2009 at 05:38:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Why would you police the Qur'an?

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/
by Patrice Ayme on Sun Apr 26th, 2009 at 05:45:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Equating quoting a sexist book, without approving of it, with racism, is contradicting the essence of the thinking process.

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/
by Patrice Ayme on Sun Apr 26th, 2009 at 06:05:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Qur'an is not neo fascist.

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/
by Patrice Ayme on Sun Apr 26th, 2009 at 05:44:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well at least smoking dope is not forbidden. Intoxicants are forbidden, but the word for intoxicants - 'Khamr' - refers only to wine.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Apr 25th, 2009 at 01:56:48 AM EST


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