Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.

Tuesday Open Thread

by Nomad Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 09:31:50 AM EST

Happy 75th Birthday, Donald!


Who didn't grow up with Donald?

Display:
A fine rant fromyoung Matty

Matt Taibbi - Let's Get It Straight, Hank Paulsen Is a Prick Who Took Down the Economy

"Hank Paulson is a national hero. I said it last October and I'm sticking by it. And now, there's actual evidence to back me up. The TARP bailout worked. The Wall Street crisis is over."

-by Evan Newmark from "Mean Street: It's Time to Enshrine Hank Paulson as National Hero".  -- Wall Street Journal

So here's the letter I wrote to the Wall Street Journal after reading Evan Newmark's paean to Hank Paulson last week:

Dear WSJ,

Just out of curiosity -- did Evan Newmark ever work for Goldman, Sachs? And if the answer to the question is yes, don't you think that might have been a good fact to disclose before he fellated Hank Paulson in his "Mean Street" column?

Sincerely,
Matt Taibbi

Can you imagine what a craven, bumlicking ass-goblin you'd have to be to get a job working for the Wall Street Journal, not mention up front that you used to be a Goldman, Sachs managing director, and then write a lengthy article calling your former boss a "national hero" -- in the middle of a sweeping financial crisis, one in which half the world is in a panic and the unemployment rate just hit a 25-year high? Behavior like this, you usually don't see it outside prison trusties who spend their evenings shining the guards' boots. I can't even think of a political press secretary who would sink that low. Hank Paulson, a hero? Are you fucking kidding us?



keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 10:01:10 AM EST
Can you imagine the the relevant editor at the WSJ did not know that this schmuck used to be a managing director at GS?

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 11:48:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not for one greasy, squirrel-barbecueing second.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 01:43:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have been trying to link to the Matt Taibbi Alternert story all morning without success. Apparently their server is down.

The article is crossposted at smirkingchimp.com

by greatferm (greatferm-at-email.com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 01:57:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The TARP bailout worked. The Wall Street crisis is over.

That was what that was about, wasn't it? Saving Wall Street.

The brainless should not be in banking. — Willem Buiter

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jun 10th, 2009 at 02:09:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
He might not be an European, but I daresay that there is a Donald in most of us...

Caveat: Donald Duck is the most popular Disney character in the Netherlands. He got his own weekly magazine and when I was still trying to learn how to ride a bike, there were children doing gradn-scale competitions to imitate him.

I'm not too sure about this duck's popularity in other European countries...

by Nomad on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 10:18:34 AM EST
Well, I grew up with Donald - the Mickey Mouse magazine was one of the first ones I read regularely, besides Fix und Foxi. :-)
by Fran on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 10:20:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Just remembered, when I was a kid, cartoons were looked down and most children in my environment were not allowed to read them, not serious enough. I must say I am very grateful to my mother, who thought as long as I read them and have fun reading that is what counts. Very fast I was motivated to read them alone and then move on to more difficult stuff. Today I am convinced that my love for reading came from my mother not censuring me and encouraging me to read what ever I liked. :-)
by Fran on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 10:36:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not even Asterix and Obelix??????

I just discovered them as a deprived American adult a few years ago.

Now they're my favorite, I love Asterix and Obelix and watch the movies every chance I get when they come on.

"Schiller sprach zu Goethe, Steck in dem Arsch die Flöte! Goethe sagte zu Schiller, Mein Arsch ist kein Triller!"

by Jeffersonian Democrat (rzg6f@virginia.edu) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 12:18:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, we love Asterix and Obelix.

Not that I ever admitted to liking them, you understand.  I just used to sneak into my brother's room to borrow them.

My son at his school's book day last year, modelling his swag from Parc Asterix:

(Just don't mention the wig.  We went to the costume store, saw an Asterix wig and moustache, bought it, brought it home...never even looked at the wording on the box.  Mummy-what's a porn star?)

by Sassafras on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 12:49:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
adorable!

Great costume!

(I'm rofl but I'm just not going to mention the porn star crack)

"Schiller sprach zu Goethe, Steck in dem Arsch die Flöte! Goethe sagte zu Schiller, Mein Arsch ist kein Triller!"

by Jeffersonian Democrat (rzg6f@virginia.edu) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 01:00:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If your son doesn't have an agent yet, please speak to me.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 01:01:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
He is quite the hansom young man.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 02:34:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We all have hidden our full Asterix collection...

sssshhhhh..

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 03:56:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thank you  :)
by Sassafras on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 04:03:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nope, Asterix didn't exist yet, when I was a kid. :-)
by Fran on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 03:57:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I never really warmed to Disney shorts which tended not to be seen as much here as far as I could tell. Bugs Bunny and most particularly Tom and Jerry (not the awful modern ones tho') were far more popular when I was young.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 10:35:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I always thought Disney was heavy with Teh Creepy.

Was always much more entertained by T&J and Coyote.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 12:08:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, I always preferred Warner Bros. to Disney.
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 12:37:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm rather surprised by that.  I mean, given poemless's description, it strikes me that Donald Duck is not at all unlike Gordon Brown.

Minus the whole no-pants thing, of course, but I'm sure there's a joke in that somewhere.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 01:15:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Gordo wears pants?

Who knew?

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 02:32:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
See, there ya go.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 06:09:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I still want to know why, given that he doesn't wear pants, Donald Duck wears a towel when he gets out of the shower.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 11:13:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I was more of a Daffy "Duck Dodgers in the 21st and a half Century" kinda kid myself.  Along with Marvin the Martian.

Looney Tunes was for me hands down over Disney

"Schiller sprach zu Goethe, Steck in dem Arsch die Flöte! Goethe sagte zu Schiller, Mein Arsch ist kein Triller!"

by Jeffersonian Democrat (rzg6f@virginia.edu) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 11:57:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In the 60s when I was home after college my youngest brother, (11 years younger), liked Hannah Barbera Cartoons and I developed a taste for them also.  Dudly Dooright, Natasha and Boris, Yogi Bear--all had a satisfying sense of subversiveness, but it was the 60s.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 01:03:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Deputy Dawg. Can't get the snicker out of my head. If I could, I'm sure my personal popularity at parties (PPP) would sky-rocket.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 02:05:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
wha' happened ? wha happened ?

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 02:06:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not to mention Space Ghost!

Oh my, those Saturday mornings watching cartoons and building spaceships with my Legos (back before Legos had special sets for that sort of thing, more creativity involved).

And what was that other Hannah Barbera cartoon, about apocalyptic earth with barbarians and dinosaurs and with the moon was blown in half....?

yea, building Lego spaceships to that as well.

"Schiller sprach zu Goethe, Steck in dem Arsch die Flöte! Goethe sagte zu Schiller, Mein Arsch ist kein Triller!"

by Jeffersonian Democrat (rzg6f@virginia.edu) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 03:18:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I only got on board with Rocky and Bullwinkle and Space Ghost when I was older.  My mother tried to make me interested in Rocky and Bullwinkle.  I thought it was corny, because my mom liked it, along with all of her other weird hipster baby boomer fascinations.  I secretly knew she was cool, but I was not about to let her know I knew.  Anyway, then I grew up and got my own weird fascinations, which, shock, led me right back to Boris and Natasha.  Damn it.  She still won.  How do parents do that?

Space Ghost (the new version) I discovered in college.  Illicit substances were involved.  But even sober, that is absolutely brilliant tv.  I really love Zorak.

I also like those really, really old cartoons with the animals who moved really slowly and fluidly, they were farm animals, I think, and I think they sang and danced.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 03:35:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh now this is a trip!  A Donald Duck cult on the European Tribune!  Didn't y'all get the memo about Disney being the poster child for Evil American HegemonyTM?

I have to admit, I am a little shocked.  I suppose I really shouldn't be.  Winnie the Pooh was a hit in the Soviet Union.  Though they had their own non-Disney version.  It is going to take me a while to digest this.  

Don't get me wrong, I liked some Disney stuff when I was a kid, though it's hard not to succumb when you are force-fed the stuff.  I grew up with cable and the Disney channel.  

I have issues with Donald Duck.  I ... I cannot watch Donald Duck.  I was never able to.  It's difficult to explain; he is always getting into situations where things go wrong, things that are not his fault.  And this frustrates him.  You know he is trying, but he can't catch a break, and then he flips out.  I was very sensitive to this as a kid.  I found it very emotionally upsetting.  I must have had an activist streak early on - I wanted to crawl into the tv and intervene on his behalf.  I genuinely like his character.  But watching those cartoons is painful for me to this day.  It's so cruel to invent a character just to be the butt of jokes, to be picked on, to put in unfair situations so you can laugh at his frustration.  

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 12:03:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't know about Evil American Hegemony(TM), but I do know that Disney was run by a bunch of fascists when my parents got out of college.  My mother was offered a job with them in Orlando as an artist.  You weren't allowed to smoke or drink, couldn't live with your significant other outside of wedlock, etc.

Which is fitting.  I hate Disney World.  Going to Disney World always feels like what I imagine the feeling would be if I were attending one of those big celebrations in North Korea.

Same with the Hershey factory in Pennsylvania.  The wife and friends all had a blast there, and I left thinking it was one of the creepiest fucking things I had ever experienced.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 12:14:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I liked Epcot Center when I was eight.  But I think Epcot was meant to be a little creepy.  I am concerned about the adults who like Disney World.  It's a popular honeymoon spot.  Gah!


"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 12:24:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I did the whole Florida Disney thing with the kids a couple of years back.

The water parks were good.  Great, in fact.  And the VR game centre, whatever it was called.

But the rest? I don't get why any adult would be there without children.  And I had to be bribed with a scheduled Shuttle launch to get me there.

by Sassafras on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 01:03:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Disney Enterprises has fallen far from the toker days of Sorcerer's Apprentice.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 12:25:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, in the second half of the 60s I learned to appreciate 40s Disney cartoon features when fortified with vitamin M or H.  I watched Sleeping Beauty in such a state just after first reading Jung.  Talk about playing with Archetypes!

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 01:09:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In desperation once during the 70s I applied for a job as a sound system designer with Imagineering in Glendale.  They sent out an old sound guy to interview me.  He described a problem they had encountered at Disneyland and asked me how I would approach it.  It was The Matterhorn thrill ride and they were adding an Abominable Snowman, who was to pop out and roar at the passengers.

I said that the first thing I would do was to get a 1/3 octave sound level reading of the rollercoster as it went by.  He said that that was the first thing that they had failed to do!  I then said I would look at the spectrum of the Snowman's roar and he confirmed that that had also been a problem.  Then I said that we should look at the required levels for the roar to be a surprise---and so on.  It was obvious I could help them and that they needed help.

He reported back to his superiors while I was invited to watch a film clip about the Disney Culture.  RW conformist nightmare about describes it, but I really needed a job so I went into full smirk supression mode.  Then they sent in the recycled aerospace technical manager from TRW.  He exhibited all of the personal warmth of a cobra.  I didn't get an offer.  I concluded that I was not mouse enough for them.  The work would have been fascinating.  The culture was hideous.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 02:53:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
he is always getting into situations where things go wrong, things that are not his fault.  And this frustrates him.  You know he is trying, but he can't catch a break, and then he flips out.

I think that's indeed in a nut-shell why I enjoy this! He's an anti-hero. I like anti-heroism.

by Nomad on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 12:45:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Agree on Donald.  Ad to that a neighbor parent who liked to call me Donald Duck and poor Donald became positively aversive.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 01:05:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
He gets away with wearing no pants. I always found that amazing.
by Torres on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 12:10:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Seeing the enthousiasm here for cartoons, perhaps a diary on "What's everyone's favourite cartoon" is in order...

A bit of lighter tone after all the politics.

by Nomad on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 12:52:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I vote for "Fritz the Cat."

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 12:58:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Update with a poll!
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 01:22:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
let's be clear here hier, that one and only one 50's cartoon stands out as the first interactive TV in the world...

Winky Dink!!!

if winky needed a bridge to cross the gorge, i would attach my saran wrap thingy to the screen and draw a bridge.

Thus hast TV my hyper-interactivity net sophistication developed.

and for poemless, sharing a love of ms. boop


The voice of Winky-Dink was Mae Questel, who also voiced "Betty Boop" after Helen Kane. A veteran of many films, radio and television shows, she is probably best known as "Miss Blue Bell" in those 70's paper towel commercials and as the old grandmother in 'National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation'. Mae Questel passed away in 1998.


"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 01:36:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You can't tell me you are all too young not to have experienced the first interactive TV.  I do mean interactive.  If Winky needed a bridge to rescue the damsel, you drew a bridge and he/she crossed.  Of course, if you didn't draw the bridge, he/she still crossed. First lesson of media-controlled interactivity.

ich stehe auf Winky Dink.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 03:04:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I had Picture Pages.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 03:08:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 02:30:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 02:37:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
When I was 8-10 I loved "The Little Rascals."  When we got a TV, about '53, I watched "Howdey Doody" for a while.  I continued to enjoy shorts at the movies, but most remember watching "I Love Lucy", "The Red Skelton Show" and "The Jackie Gleason Show."  I remember sitting watching "I Love Lucy" while turning the crank on a gallon butter churn.  We had a cow that I had the "privilege" of milking.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 12:57:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Jerry Lewis of Germany | WSJ | 23 May 2009

"Donald is so popular because almost everyone can identify with him," says Christian Pfeiler, president of D.O.N.A.L.D. "He has strengths and weaknesses, he lacks polish but is also very cultured and well-read." But much of the appeal of the hapless, happy-go-lucky duck lies in the translations. Donald quotes from German literature, speaks in grammatically complex sentences and is prone to philosophical musings, while the stories often take a more political tone than their American counterparts....

Donald Duck's popularity was helped along by Erika Fuchs, a free spirit in owlish glasses who was tasked with translating the stories. A Ph.D. in art history, Dr. Fuchs had never laid eyes on a comic book before the day an editor handed her a Donald Duck story, but no matter. She had a knack for breathing life into the German version of Carl Barks's duck. Her talent was so great she continued to fill speech bubbles for the denizens of Duckburg (which she renamed Entenhausen, based on the German word for "duck") until shortly before her death in 2005 at the age of 98.

Ehapa directed Dr. Fuchs to crank up the erudition level of the comics she translated, a task she took seriously. Her interpretations of the comic books often quote (and misquote) from the great classics of German literature, sometimes even inserting political subtexts into the duck tales. Dr. Fuchs both thickens and deepens Mr. Barks's often sparse dialogues, and the hilariousness of the result may explain why Donald Duck remains the most popular children's comic in Germany to this day.

Dr. Fuchs's Donald was no ordinary comic creation. He was a bird of arts and letters, and many Germans credit him with having initiated them into the language of the literary classics. The German comics are peppered with fancy quotations. In one story Donald's nephews steal famous lines from Friedrich Schiller's play "William Tell"; Donald garbles a classic Schiller poem, "The Bell," in another. Other lines are straight out of Goethe, Hölderlin and even Wagner (whose words are put in the mouth of a singing cat).



Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 10:37:27 AM EST
MarketTrustee:
Other lines are straight out of Goethe, Hölderlin and even Wagner (whose words are put in the mouth of a singing cat).

Marvelous. :)

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 12:10:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If that was a draw, it's interesting that they chose a Disney character.  Warner Brothers cartoons (Looney Tunes, Animaniacs) were filled with references to the classics.  I always liked the Looney Tunes cartoons more than Disney.  They were more subversive and more laden with cultural references.  Disney promoted a creepy shiny happy normalcy.  Have you ever seen the Mickey Mouse Club?  That shit gives those Communist Pioneer clubs a run a for their money any day.  


"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 12:21:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
To say nothing of it having given us Britney Spears and Justin Timberlake.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 12:25:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
my ex was a Young Pioneer and KOMSOMOL.  She said it was a great place to meet boys, she didn't know a lot about Marx, though, nor really cared.....

"Schiller sprach zu Goethe, Steck in dem Arsch die Flöte! Goethe sagte zu Schiller, Mein Arsch ist kein Triller!"
by Jeffersonian Democrat (rzg6f@virginia.edu) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 12:27:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I take some issue with the indoctrination of children, whether by capitalists or commies.  And as we can see from the comment about Brintey and Justin, looks like the Mickey Mouse club was more of a meat market than an effective propaganda tool too.  Still creepy, though.  

As for the Komsomol, I recently read a brilliant book, basically confirming your ex's statements, called, Everything was forever until it was no more.  I highly recommend it, to everyone.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 12:39:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yea, I can see that, but she was on the tail end of the USSR when she was in Komsomol, from what she explained, there really wasn't much indoctrination going on anymore.  Everyone went through the necessary motions while rolling their eyes.

It was more of a time of a government paper-tiger that paid for camping trips and socials as well as a time of cutting edge new "Glastnost" rock groups like KINO and Akvarium.  Those bands were actually pretty good and sang about the gravitas of their time, too bad Russian rock fell into the euro-pop dance model.

As far as the Mickey Mouse Club (the original, I watched the reruns as a kid), that was pretty good propaganda portraying the black and white (in both senses) "Leave it to Beaver" and "Father Knows Best" world of post-war 1950s suburban "America", white picket fences (and all white people) and all that.

The reincarnation seems to be just as you said, a dysfunctional meat market.

"Schiller sprach zu Goethe, Steck in dem Arsch die Flöte! Goethe sagte zu Schiller, Mein Arsch ist kein Triller!"

by Jeffersonian Democrat (rzg6f@virginia.edu) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 12:56:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
she was on the tail end of the USSR when she was in Komsomol, from what she explained, there really wasn't much indoctrination going on anymore.  Everyone went through the necessary motions while rolling their eyes.

Which is what that book discusses.  The people who really were into it for ideological reasons were considered weirdos.  Everyone else was doing it for career or social benefits.

Ah, they don't make them like Akvarium anymore...  Akvarium doesn't even make them like Akvarium  anymore.  :/   But if you are looking for non-cheesy Russian pop/rock/etc, this is a cool site:

http://www.moscow.ucla.edu/

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 01:06:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm checking it out

"Schiller sprach zu Goethe, Steck in dem Arsch die Flöte! Goethe sagte zu Schiller, Mein Arsch ist kein Triller!"
by Jeffersonian Democrat (rzg6f@virginia.edu) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 01:17:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I saw a television news report about Nashi, the pro-Putin youth group, in which members said that it was a good way to meet members of the opposite sex. But they didn't seem to be rolling their eyes at the political aspects.
by Gag Halfrunt on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 05:41:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Interesting.  Нащы or Nashi means "ours" or "unser"....

::sigh::

another nationalist movement, when will we ever outgrow our tribalism?

"Schiller sprach zu Goethe, Steck in dem Arsch die Flöte! Goethe sagte zu Schiller, Mein Arsch ist kein Triller!"

by Jeffersonian Democrat (rzg6f@virginia.edu) on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 09:35:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Some ET coverage of Nashi here.

The brainless should not be in banking. — Willem Buiter
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 10:25:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ich stehe auf Betty Boop.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 12:27:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't speak German, but Google says you are standing on Betty Boop?

Betty Boop rocks, IMO.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 12:30:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
German expression literally meaning i stand for, or better i support, or i like.  I would never stand on ms. boop, though she could stand on me anytime.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 12:33:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Dig, appreciate, fancy...

Leo.Org (the best source for german translation, to englisch, french, italian, spanish and chinese, but only as a dictionary)

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 12:44:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Betty Boop?  Not Jessica Rabbit?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 12:46:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ahhh, she was a one-off.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 12:58:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You had a one night stand with Jessica?  

Tell us more...

I refused another opportunity to go to Disneyland just yesterday.  I have been there twice, once when my daughter was 9, and again when her daughter was 9.  I could never escape the feeling that I was under surveillance the whole time, by persons who were under orders to surreptitiously whisk me away through secret tunnels at the first sign of anti-Disney activities.

I will give them one thing, though. When I finally escaped Dwindle City, Ohio, at 18, and discovered classical music, I somehow knew of lot of the classical themes. Years later, I realized it was because Disney cartoons used them

Greatferm

by greatferm (greatferm-at-email.com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 01:44:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
she had undulating curves which seemed to waver in the air, though her sultry voice remained.  i was never able to fully "grasp" the situation.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 03:01:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There is the infamous segment in Red Dwarf where Lister and Cat discuss whether Wilma Flintstone or Betty Rubble is the sexiest woman ever. A classic !!

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 01:53:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 04:05:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
link ? I'm still in no-embedded video hell.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 04:11:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKy8CzX4TEU,

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 04:13:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah...so good it hurts.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 04:34:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But she'd never leave Fred...

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 05:05:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yea, what were you thinking ?

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 05:08:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
of Wilma, obviously.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 05:35:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, I did have a fondness for Annette Funachelo, especially going away.  Disney did push the envelope on teen sexuality a bit on the original Mousketeers.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 01:16:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Helps to read the entire article. Draw? No. Poison pill, yes.

In the years following World War II, American influence in the newly formed Federal Republic was strong, but German cultural institutions were hesitant to sanction one U.S. import: the comic book. A law banning comics was proposed, and some American comics were eventually burned by school officials worried about their effects on students' morals and ability to express themselves in complete sentences.

When the Ehapa publishing house was founded in 1951 to bring American comics to German kids, it was a risky endeavor. Ehapa's pilot project, a monthly comics magazine, bore the title "Micky Maus" to capitalize on that icon's popularity. From the beginning, though, most of the pages of "Micky Maus" were devoted to duck tales.

Control of literary content was a trade condition on Disney export to Germany. The untold story of the licensing arrangement explains why this human interest piece made the Weekend Edition cut at WSJ.

Speaking of Mickey, Maus, and counter-culture media industry: Another ironical departure from the iconographic farm, one of my favorites, is Mousketeer Annette Funicello's leading role in the Beach Party series --Beach Party (1963), Muscle Beach Party (1964), Bikini Beach (1964), Pajama Party (1964), How to Stuff a Wild Bikini (1965), and The Ghost in the Invisible Bikini (1966)-- quite the campy juxtoposition to Gidget, coming out of deep Cold War Kalifornia.

Frankie is such a perv, really.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 01:50:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
WHY GERMANY'S EXPORT MODEL WILL NO LONGER WORK AFTER THE CRISIS
http://www.eurointelligence.com/article.581+M5ad4656d7d8.0.html

Illargi over at Automatic Earth seems to think he's smoking something from Amsterdam:

Ilargi: "Münchau at the FT is losing it. No more critical thinking, but instead a set of preconceived notions against which the world is measured. which results in a warped scenario in which the biggest debtors can be made to walk victorious into a bright sunny future. Where he veers off the track should be obvious."

I am really in the dark with economics and it's grammar, vocabulary, and logic.  So throughout this crises I've been reading online trying to absorb stuff, especially about USD/EUR exchange rates and strengths.

I am just not sure how to tell who is credible and who is a propagandist.  Ilargi, who I read a lot of, states it's obvious to see where he veers off track.  Not obvious enough for me frankly.

Is this guy from the FT credible?  Anyone have any idea?

"Schiller sprach zu Goethe, Steck in dem Arsch die Flöte! Goethe sagte zu Schiller, Mein Arsch ist kein Triller!"

by Jeffersonian Democrat (rzg6f@virginia.edu) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 11:01:37 AM EST
Münchau has a bit of a one-track mind, I think. Sometimes he's OK. As for the piece, Münchau makes the rather obvious error of shifting between intra-EU and EU-world trade balances by his assumption of a sudden jump in the value of the euro (and that's just an error in the internal logic, we don't even want to start talking about the assumptions). Germany has a large trade surplus mainly because of its intra-EU trade balance, but the Eurozone does not have a large trade surplus.
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 11:41:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I was just suspicious not only because of Illargi, but Jerome has often written about FT (and The Economist) being the mouthpiece of the neo-liberal Anglo-Saxon model and Europe bashing.

Problem is, when one is ignorant in economics or finance, anyone can make an argument or opinion and you can't tell if it's horse dung or not.

My take away is that he is ok to read but take with a grain of salt.

Thanks nanne

"Schiller sprach zu Goethe, Steck in dem Arsch die Flöte! Goethe sagte zu Schiller, Mein Arsch ist kein Triller!"

by Jeffersonian Democrat (rzg6f@virginia.edu) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 11:48:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
He's afraid to the follow the logic of the stuff he says into repudiation of the accepted serious people's wisdom.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 11:49:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
English villagers try to save struggling pubs
Money woes brought on by regulations, taxes and competition force many beloved taverns in the countryside to close their doors. But locals in a few spots have managed to keep the ale flowing.
By Henry Chu, Los Angeles Times

Last summer, the tranquil English village of Kentisbeare woke up to find a dagger piercing its heart.

The man who ran the neighborhood pub, the Wyndham Arms, had decided to call it quits. Hit by hard times, he locked up one evening and never came back, leaving the village bereft of its "local," the watering hole down the road where, for more than 200 years, the good folk here could always drop in for a pint, a pie or a piece of gossip.

The tavern seemed destined to become yet another lost marker of traditional village life, bound for the same remorseless oblivion that had already swallowed the baker's, the butcher's and the petrol station in this lazy green countryside where bluebells nod in the breeze, medieval church towers loom like giant chess pieces and thatched roofs peek coyly through the leaves.

This time, though, residents drew a line. They retrieved the keys to the pub, renovated the whitewashed 16th century building themselves and reopened it less than two months later.

"People couldn't bear the thought of it being boarded up," said Mavis Durrant, 67, a lifelong resident of the village in southwestern England. "There's something very appealing about a country pub, isn't there?"

by Magnifico on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 12:06:29 PM EST
This reminds me.  Hardys and Hansons in Kimberley, which makes one of my favorite beers, was recently sold to Greene King, makers of some fo the most disgusting shit the planet has ever known.  (Someone should die for Abbott Ale.)  Maybe I can get someone at MI5 to grab the recipe before those idiots ruin it.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 12:19:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
let's see, that was June 1986 or 87 in East Anglia, RAF Lakenheath I think, right before I spent 30 days at the Prince Charles Barracks in Aberdeen with 22 Para Territorials.

There, I think, I did die...

several times....

and always resurrected by my sweet Moreigh, I'll never forget her...

mmmmm, youth....

"Schiller sprach zu Goethe, Steck in dem Arsch die Flöte! Goethe sagte zu Schiller, Mein Arsch ist kein Triller!"

by Jeffersonian Democrat (rzg6f@virginia.edu) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 12:33:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Bloody hell. Just down the road from where I used to live.

Ah used ter live in Heanor, youth...

"Mi duck" is only used to address wimmin rahnd theer.

"Ayup, youth!" is what you said to other blokes (no matter how old they were).

Many's the pint I had in HH pubs (we used to seek them out) during my cricketing days for Denby CC in the Notts and Derby Border League.

Our ground lay between the Denby pottery waste heap and the disused Kilburn mine shaft and slag heaps.  The pavilion was an old railway carriage.  Visiting teams called our ground "Moonbase Alpha".

Nostalgia isn't what it used to be....

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 12:38:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
someone should die for buggering up Abbott ale is more right. AA was a fabulous pint in the 70s, but as GK started getting frisky with their profit margin AA started nose-diving in quality.

IPA still retains memories of good beer if you find someone who knows how to look after it. Afaik only the Free Press in Cambridge meets this criteria. GK don't acutally train their managers and landlords how to look after real ale, so it's no surprise that it is more often than not utterly vile.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 02:10:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, it is the PubCos who are most to blame for this situation. They're squeezing the life out of pubs. High rents, poor maintenance, ridiculous charges for products; all make a pubco tenancy unviable in a competitive marketplace.

I will say that I know of no landlord-run freehouses under threat, but the industry is mostly administered by London-based winebar-frequenting accountants with no understanding or sympathy for the business.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 02:05:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Last week I registered on Facebook because I was following a link that I wanted to read. Last evening one person from ET asked me to be his friend. Of course I said yes; to ignore it would be rude and now that I live in France, I must not be with bad taste. So when estHer came home yesterday I asked her to explain what Facebook was. Like all teenagers she had little patience for me but she did make me her friend. I had two; she has three hundred forty four.

Today other people on ET started to ask me to be their friends. I felt it a bit redundant since we speak almost every day on ET but how could I say no. I now have eleven friends at last regard. I was a little astounded when Facebook asked me if I'd like to be friends with my ex-wife. How would Facebook know about my ex wife. I spoke to my son in the U.S. and he said he thinks Facebook goes into my email contacts to find possible friends. He also said if I got into it I would enjoy it.

OK. I'm still too bashful to ask other people to be my friends but I'm going to try to get over that. So, if I haven't asked you to be my friend its  not that I wouldn't like to be. If I haven't asked you, please ask me.

I'm shooting for three hundred forty five.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 12:52:10 PM EST
LOL.  

FYI, when you first open an account, people whom you have added as friends are asked to send a message to any of their friends who know you, to alert them you have an account and to recommend they become friends with you.  So I woke this morning up to multiple requests asking me to be your friend. :D  

You are always able to deny the friend requests you get.  It seems rude at the beginning, but eventually I think it becomes necessary and everyone understands that.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 01:00:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This is in essence what the person who asked you to be your friend did, Len ! :)

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 05:43:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You are my first friend on Facebook, linca. That will always have a special meaning for me. ;)

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 06:09:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I got in touch with my best Kumple from my old town of Menden by email.  He told me to get on StudiVZ because a lot of other friends are on it and it's better to communicate.  So I registered on Sunday.

I think it's like facebook but for students; with invites and all that.  It seems I need to write a profile and upload a photo, and...blah, blah, blah.  I don't know, never visited facebook or Twitter, not sure how they work.

I must be a luddite because I think old fashioned email is just fine.

But, hey, if the kids say it's the way to go.....

"Schiller sprach zu Goethe, Steck in dem Arsch die Flöte! Goethe sagte zu Schiller, Mein Arsch ist kein Triller!"

by Jeffersonian Democrat (rzg6f@virginia.edu) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 01:10:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Facebook was originally a students-only website.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 01:18:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I just asked you.

You have a normal feeling for a moment, then it passes. --More--
by tzt (tzt) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 01:16:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have just asked you!
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 01:33:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And I have just added you. :-)

You have a normal feeling for a moment, then it passes. --More--
by tzt (tzt) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 02:02:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
i just came from watching the shenanigens on my account to find this.  Europe.Is.Now.Officially.Doomed.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 01:24:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Speaking of cartoons:

They are having too much fun naming the rocks on Mars.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 03:41:49 PM EST
Scientists and engineers don't get paid huge (or otherwise) bonuses, but they have other gratifications.

The brainless should not be in banking. — Willem Buiter
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jun 10th, 2009 at 02:12:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 04:42:08 PM EST
LOL!  Thanks!

I still don't think it is real food though...

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 04:47:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
PANCAKES!!

Today is the Democratic Gubernatorial Primary for the People Republic of Northern Virginia and the gun-loving inbreds in those other places (The Real VirginiaTM, as you'll remember those places).

I was thinking of holding my nose and voting tonight, but the weather's gone completely to shit, and I don't care to gamble with my life walking down a major thoroughfare (Washingtonians are stupid and psychotic enough with severe thunder storms and flooding).

Fortunately, I don't care much who wins.  I was going to vote for Moran, since he opposes "clean coal" (unlike Terry McAwful) and isn't one of the gun-loving inbreds (unlike Deeds).  All three candidates make even New Dem douchebag and donkey-human hybrid Mark Warner look appealing, to say nothing of Tim Kaine.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 06:20:29 PM EST
Ahem, the winner is waffles.  Right In Wales? ;)

Props for the colorful language, though!

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 06:23:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Colorful language?

Wouldn't know anything about that....

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 06:59:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Waffles!
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Wed Jun 10th, 2009 at 02:45:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And the gun-loving inbred, Creigh Deeds, is beating McAwful and Moran like a redheaded stepchild at KMart.

Fun!

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 07:29:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Deeds blew 'em out.

Not a fan of Deeds but he was 100% better than McAwful.  And it puts another nail in the Clinton faction, hurrah for that.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 09:59:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not even so much a Clintonista thing for me.  McAwful just annoys the shit out of me.  He starts talking, and it makes me wish someone would shove a very large sock in his enormous mouth.

Not a fan of Deeds either.  But Deeds can probably win, although I've no idea if he will.  The GOPer is a lunatic, but he's got pretty high approvals.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 10:05:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The only dog in the hunt, for me, is the redistricting after the 2010 census.

Or perhaps you don't know the US conducts a census every 10 years?  

:-þ

:-)

Anyway, Virginia is expected to gain a CR, or two (or three?) and it would be great to craft the districts to maximize Dem seats.


She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 10:12:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ugh.  I work on the other side of Census (Economic Directorate), and those little bastards at Decennial keep getting all of us in trouble on the Hill, because when Decennial screws up, it's the fault of the entire Census Bureau, because nobody knows we do other stuff besides counting people.

But, yeah, redistricting a few more Reps out of Congress would be quite nice.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 10:20:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What would be great would be to end the redistricting nonsense by introducing proportional representation via an additional member system.

The brainless should not be in banking. — Willem Buiter
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jun 10th, 2009 at 01:51:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But in that case we'd be looking at 53 Dems in the Senate rather than 57 Dems plus Hojo, Snarlin' Arlen and Ben Nelson.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Wed Jun 10th, 2009 at 08:30:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We're talking House, not Senate. The Senate doesn't do redistricting because it doesn't pretend to be proportional to population.

The brainless should not be in banking. — Willem Buiter
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jun 10th, 2009 at 10:33:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
True, but the same still holds: We'd be looking at 231 House Dems, putting us at the mercy of the Blue Dogs, instead of the fairly easy majority of 256 that we have now.  Nothing would get done.

America's legislative branch is slow and dysfunctional enough without screwing the House up to match the Senate.  Proportional representation sounds nice until you remember that one of the two major parties is insane and will vote against everything in an effort to hurt the other party.

Gerrymandering is a problem, of course, but it's not that big a problem.  People said it would be nearly impossible for us to get back the House with a solid majority after the 2004 election.  We got it back in two years.

Similarly, we could gerrymander a few Republicans out if we do well in 2010, but they'll recover quickly if the Dems don't do well in power.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Wed Jun 10th, 2009 at 11:02:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If you had proportional representation third parties would be viable. It wouldn't just be about Democrats and Republicans...

The brainless should not be in banking. — Willem Buiter
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jun 10th, 2009 at 11:06:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't think it would make a huge difference.  You're basically going to wind up with the same thing in that case, except that those small-i independent politicians who would've otherwise called themselves Dems or Reps would call themselves Greens or Libertarians or Constitutionalists or whatever.  Ultimately you'll wind up with the same coalitions.

Which isn't to say I disagree in principle with any of what you're saying.  I agree with all of it.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Wed Jun 10th, 2009 at 11:17:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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