Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.

Blowing the Whistle on Theft

by ARGeezer Mon Jul 27th, 2009 at 05:06:54 AM EST

At the beginning of last week it seemed that the Main Stream Media was determined to ignore the ongoing scandal of how the financial markets were being run. But The New York Times is starting to run articles on the High Frequency Trading Scandal and other aspect of gross manipulation of the markets and looting of the economy by Wall Street and, especially, by Goldman Sachs.

The NYT ran an article by Charles Duhigg earlier in the week, Stock Traders Find Speed Pays, in Milliseconds, (see below for link and quote) and followed up on Saturday with a guest editorial by Tobin Harshaw in the Weekend Opinionator entitled Is Wall Street Picking Our Pockets?

"It is the hot new thing on Wall Street," according to The Times's Charles Duhigg, "a way for a handful of traders to master the stock market, peek at investors' orders and, critics say, even subtly manipulate share prices. It is called high-frequency trading -- and it is suddenly one of the most talked-about and mysterious forces in the markets."

Well,...it's nice to have a clear villain back in our sights. But is it fair to say the wizards of Wall Street (Goldman Sachs, this means you) are picking our pockets, or are they really the smartest guys in the room after all?

The rest of Harshaw's article is a mine of references and links and a general survey of blog and press coverage of this subject.  But instead of quoting Harshaw quoting Duhigg, we will go to the source, as that is where Harshaw starts.

promoted by whataboutbob


Stock Traders Find Speed Pays, in Milliseconds  CHARLES DUHIGG,  NYT  July 23, 2009

For most of Wall Street's history, stock trading was fairly straightforward: buyers and sellers gathered on exchange floors and dickered until they struck a deal. Then, in 1998, the Securities and Exchange Commission authorized electronic exchanges to compete with marketplaces like the New York Stock Exchange. The intent was to open markets to anyone with a desktop computer and a fresh idea.

But as new marketplaces have emerged, PCs have been unable to compete with Wall Street's computers. Powerful algorithms -- "algos," in industry parlance -- execute millions of orders a second and scan dozens of public and private marketplaces simultaneously. They can spot trends before other investors can blink, changing orders and strategies within milliseconds.

High-frequency traders often confound other investors by issuing and then canceling orders almost simultaneously. Loopholes in market rules give high-speed investors an early glance at how others are trading. And their computers can essentially bully slower investors into giving up profits -- and then disappear before anyone even knows they were there.
High-frequency traders also benefit from competition among the various exchanges, which pay small fees that are often collected by the biggest and most active traders -- typically a quarter of a cent per share to whoever arrives first. Those small payments, spread over millions of shares, help high-speed investors profit simply by trading enormous numbers of shares, even if they buy or sell at a modest loss.

-Skip-

"This is where all the money is getting made," said William H. Donaldson, former chairman and chief executive of the New York Stock Exchange and today an adviser to a big hedge fund. "If an individual investor doesn't have the means to keep up, they're at a huge disadvantage."

Electronic trading was presented as an opportunity for anyone with a personal computer to benefit.  But not just "anyone" can co-locate their hardware on the exchange floor, nor is just "anyone" able to afford powerful hardware and, especially, the sophisticated software and algorithms that run on them.  Nor can just "anyone", for a fee to the exchange, get to see the data stream from the exchange's trading system monitor a fraction of a second before everyone else.  

"It's become a technological arms race, and what separates winners and losers is how fast they can move," said Joseph M. Mecane of NYSE Euronext, which operates the New York Stock Exchange. "Markets need liquidity, and high-frequency traders provide opportunities for other investors to buy and sell."

Of course Mr. Mecane would not be so gauche as to suggest limitations on this "technological arms race"--after all his firm makes its money by hosting the biggest of these races and allows the big boys to locate the hardware for their proprietary HFT desk on the exchange floor.  Tyler Durden, however, has pointed out that High Frequency Trading is a very inefficient and problematic way to provide liquidity and that it exposes the market to major risks.  On a typical day over half of the volume on major exchanges is provided by proprietary High Frequency Trading systems, not by human traders.  But dealing with the risks this may pose, apparently, is the role of the government and the taxpayer.

Duhigg then describes what happened to the human traders on Wall Street when pitted against the HFT computers.  It involves a recent incident where Intel had reported good earnings the previous evening and traders saw an opportunity to profit from Broadcom:

(Their activities were described by an investor at a major Wall Street firm who spoke on the condition of anonymity to protect his job.) The slower traders faced a quandary: If they sought to buy a large number of shares at once, they would tip their hand and risk driving up Broadcom's price. So, as is often the case on Wall Street, they divided their orders into dozens of small batches, hoping to cover their tracks. One second after the market opened, shares of Broadcom started changing hands at $26.20.

The slower traders began issuing buy orders. But rather than being shown to all potential sellers at the same time, some of those orders were most likely routed to a collection of high-frequency traders for just 30 milliseconds -- 0.03 seconds -- in what are known as flash orders. While markets are supposed to ensure transparency by showing orders to everyone simultaneously, a loophole in regulations allows marketplaces like Nasdaq to show traders some orders ahead of everyone else in exchange for a fee.

In less than half a second, high-frequency traders gained a valuable insight: the hunger for Broadcom was growing. Their computers began buying up Broadcom shares and then reselling them to the slower investors at higher prices. The overall price of Broadcom began to rise.

Soon, thousands of orders began flooding the markets as high-frequency software went into high gear. Automatic programs began issuing and canceling tiny orders within milliseconds to determine how much the slower traders were willing to pay. The high-frequency computers quickly determined that some investors' upper limit was $26.40. The price shot to $26.39, and high-frequency programs began offering to sell hundreds of thousands of shares.

The result is that the slower-moving investors paid $1.4 million for about 56,000 shares, or $7,800 more than if they had been able to move as quickly as the high-frequency traders.

It would seem that the new "for profit" NYSE finds it profitable to rent a few big boys enough of an advantage to suck up a significant portion of the profits of all of the other NYSE traders, not to mention the retail customers world wide.  But now that they are "for profit" they need to make a profit.

"You want to encourage innovation, and you want to reward companies that have invested in technology and ideas that make the markets more efficient," said Andrew M. Brooks, head of United States equity trading at T. Rowe Price, a mutual fund and investment company that often competes with and uses high-frequency techniques. "But we're moving toward a two-tiered marketplace of the high-frequency arbitrage guys, and everyone else. People want to know they have a legitimate shot at getting a fair deal. Otherwise, the markets lose their integrity."

Perhaps something will come of all this exposure:

>Schumer Asks SEC to Ban Flash Orders Used by High-Speed Traders

July 24 (Bloomberg) -- Senator Charles Schumer asked the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission to ban "flash orders," saying the transactions give high-speed traders an unfair advantage over other investors.

Nasdaq OMX Group Inc., Bats Exchange Inc. and Direct Edge Holdings Inc. hold these orders for milliseconds, giving their customers the opportunity to gauge demand before traders on other exchanges get the chance to bid, Schumer said in a letter to SEC Chairman Mary Schapiro. Brian Fallon, a spokesman at Schumer's office, confirmed the authenticity of the letter.

"Flash orders allow certain members of these exchanges to obtain access to order flow information before that information is made available to the public," Schumer wrote. That allows "those members to use rapid trading programs to trade ahead of those orders and profit from advanced knowledge of buying and selling activity," he added.

The senator said that if the SEC doesn't prohibit flash orders, he will introduce legislation that would.


We'll see.

Display:
Just FYI: You misspelled "Theft" in the title, ARG.

Looks like this Goldman front-running thing really may explode.  If Goldman has, in fact, been doing this, as it appears they may very well have -- that's it.  Anybody within Goldman, or any other company, with any sort of connection has got to go to jail and have their assets stripped.  Nobody's going to trade on our markets if they don't if the government lets them off.

Somewhere Matt Taibbi must be smiling.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Sat Jul 25th, 2009 at 09:46:29 PM EST
LOL!  Thanks!

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Jul 25th, 2009 at 10:47:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Anybody within Goldman, or any other company, with any sort of connection has got to go to jail and have their assets stripped.  Nobody's going to trade on our markets if they don't if the government lets them off.

I certainly hope you are right!  (But I fear you may be wrong.)  Can we agree that how this issue is resolved will be the tell on the Obama Administration?

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Jul 26th, 2009 at 12:12:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, but as with investigating Bush and Cheney's crimes, this is another one where we're left waiting to see what Holder does.  I'd imagine he would pursue this, since it sounds like it'd be pretty open-and-shut, while the Bushies could do all sorts of shit to cover tracks and protect Chimpy (remembering that the President's political advisers' first job is to protect the President).

The front-running scandal will probably take a while, since we only all found out about it in something of an accident, as I understand it.  There's probably no Justice file prior to this -- or, if there is one, it's likely not limited to Goldman and likely pretty bare.

What I'd be interested to know, since I'm not a lawyer: Are there problems because of the fact that the code was stolen that would make it inadmissible as evidence?  If so, does Goldman walk on a technicality when a judge gets ahold of it?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Sun Jul 26th, 2009 at 08:54:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Are there problems because of the fact that the code was stolen that would make it inadmissible as evidence?

IANAL, either, but if a criminal case were brought they might have trouble making that case in the light of recent SCOTUS rulings.  The fact that an alleged illegality by GS was brought to light by an arguably illegal act by a former employee, as opposed to someone in the government, should not matter, unless courts are "convinced" that GS has a right to keep proprietary criminality secret.  The proper course of action would seem to be to bring charges against the former employee on grounds that provide no discretion for GS.  Of course, seeing that the FBI acted with genuine alacrity, so much so that they might as well have been GS security, will undoubtedly complicate the matter.  That and the fact that GS has such connections at Treasury.

Were I the former employer's attorney, I would be very interested in either a deal for my clients cooperation or a large cash settlement from GS accompanied by a request to drop all charges in return for the best confidentiality agreement the lawyers could draft.  The later is what I would expect. But I just know what I read in the blogz.

The other issue is that this is not the only line of attack currently being pursued by the press and possibly by potentially injured parties on Wall Street and elsewhere.  Tyler Durden has repeatedly noted what a field day for lawyers this is shaping up to be. My guess is that all the activity is at present in the pre disposition or the deposing complainants stage.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Jul 28th, 2009 at 08:33:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not necessarily. If GS is allowed to continue, what would happen is that other trading companies' clients would migrate to GS. It wouldn't spell the end of the stock market, except in the limited sense of having a very small number of major firms being directly part of it and the recipe for success simplified to include bribery. The worst casualty would probably be the American Dream...

--
$E(X_t|F_s) = X_s,\quad t > s$
by martingale on Tue Jul 28th, 2009 at 12:08:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The American Dream died with Ronnie Raygun.

If its decomposing corpse is finally buried, it might stop poisoning the well.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Jul 28th, 2009 at 05:03:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There's another side to this. Millisecond front-loaded trading can be seen as a distraction issue against the other larger forms of theft occurring. Remember it was only a few years ago that political decisions were about the affordability of measures costing in the billions, or often even in the hundreds or tens of millions.

All the various forms of bailout programs are magnitudes greater than this issue, unless i'm missing something.

The direct infusion of AIG bailout $ to GS and others is even more criminal, isn't it?

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Sun Jul 26th, 2009 at 03:12:35 AM EST
You can avoid HFT, frontloading and all the other stock exchange gimmicks by not buying stocks. You cannot similarly opt out of paying for the bailout.

And anybody who's been paying attention since - oh, the dot-com days - knows that the little guy gets ripped off on the stock exchange. Unless he's done his homework exceedingly well. In which case he wouldn't care about HFT, because he wouldn't be the one who got ripped off (it would be the guy at the other end of the transaction chain that got shaved).

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Jul 26th, 2009 at 03:26:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And anybody who's been paying attention since - oh, the dot-com days - knows that the little guy gets ripped off on the stock exchange.

True, but in this case the HST algos are discriminating against what were, until HST, other Wall Street traders. So it is becoming Goldman, and to some extent Morgan Stanley, against everyone else.  Plus this whole debacle is raising serious questions about the consequences of allowing the NYSE to convert to a "for profit" enterprise.  The inside source for the Broadcom manipulation story works for a Wall Street firm and probably leaked the information because he was tired of he and his firm getting hosed by GS's proprietary trading desk, which is run on top of an exchange monitor and has, possibly, a thirty or sixty millisecond rented advantage and is being paid for providing "liquidity".

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Jul 26th, 2009 at 09:06:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
True, but in this case the HST algos are discriminating against what were, until HST, other Wall Street traders. So it is becoming Goldman, and to some extent Morgan Stanley, against everyone else.

My heart bleeds for them.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Jul 26th, 2009 at 09:13:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, but which is better: the retail customers vs. Wall Street or most of Wall Street and the retail customers vs. Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley?  From my perspective it is the second.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Jul 26th, 2009 at 09:20:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
they've run out of suckers to fleece, so they are now cannibalising each other.

nice...

popcorn time

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Jul 26th, 2009 at 04:30:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
understand and is as old as the hills--or at least as old as telegraphy.  

Suppose you have an off-track betting parlor.  People place there bets on real-time races, and the results of the races are sent to the parlor by telegraph, telephone, TV, or whatever.  Suppose the results are delayed--this is done by intervening in the communication circuit--by just the few minutes you need to place your insider bets.  Knowing how the race "will" turn out, you clean up.  

This is just one aspect of what Goldman Sachs was doing.   Not raking in trillions, true, but billions.  Per month.  

It is, of course, fraud.  

The Fates are kind.

by Gaianne on Sun Jul 26th, 2009 at 04:44:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Except that front-running is a little more subtle than what you're describing and it's based on the fact that if you place two identical consecutive orders on the market, the first order will sometimes get a better price than the next one.

For cases when the bookmaker adjusts the odds as the bets are placed, the first bet may lead to worse odds for the second bet, and that's where front-loading is fraud if the bookmaker inserts a bet for himself before every customer order.

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 26th, 2009 at 05:20:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
One of the commenters to one of the Tyler Durden articles also described the activities involving electronic buys as more properly being described as "painting the tape."  These sometimes get cancelled milliseconds later.  Perhaps this is PT2.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Jul 26th, 2009 at 08:53:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This is quite irrelevant. If you have an interval of time during which the market consists of a single firm doing transactions without any other firms performing transactions, then the price can always be arbitrarily manipulated if that firm has large amounts of funds and large numbers of transactions available.

The wider issue of regulation is still to outlaw advance access, if for no other reason than advance access artificially restricts the true size of the market during certain intervals.

--
$E(X_t|F_s) = X_s,\quad t > s$

by martingale on Mon Jul 27th, 2009 at 11:51:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The market maker is not supposed to be trading with itself.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Aug 26th, 2009 at 04:45:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Millisecond front-loaded trading can be seen as a distraction issue against the other larger forms of theft occurring.

Agreed.  But this has the advantage of being readily understandable and, to boot, is taking on the aspects of a political sex scandal involving, say, an escort service that has been shown to be a carrier of a lethal STD, with the Goldman prop desk being the source of the infection.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Jul 26th, 2009 at 09:11:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A few comments from Tyler's The Day That Was - HFT's Superdominance:

by FischerBlack
on Tue, 07/21/2009 - 20:46
#11531

'Churning' is discretionary trading in a client's account solely for commissions. 'Painting the tape' is manufacturing volume where there is none in order to erect a facade of investor interest. Both are verboten, but I think the latter is a better encapsulation of what's going on.

by Tyler Durden
on Tue, 07/21/2009 - 20:52
#11539

you say "paint the tape" and are immediately branded a conspiracyist (for some reason we get that a lot). churning has less vile connotations to the utterer, although in principle same exact concept.

by FischerBlack
on Tue, 07/21/2009 - 21:42
#11588

The provision of 'supplemental' liquidity, i.e., liquidity for liquidity's sake, is basically indistinguishable from painting the tape. The only difference, as far as I can tell, is that one is encouraged and paid for by the exchanges, and the other is punishable as manipulaion. Your recurring point is a good one, Tyler, that any sort of false liquidity should be thought of as manipulation whether sanctioned by the exchange or not. But not calling it 'painting the tape' simply to avoid being called a conspiracy theorist robs the point of some of its force, and in any case seems a bit out of character for you.

by FischerBlack
on Tue, 07/21/2009 - 20:50
#11536

Morning and afternoon volume spikes are usually 'real' volume. In the morning, you have to get your book straightened out after Europe and Asia markets close. At the close, you have to get things in line for the next sessions. These days, programs rule the rest of the session, unless there's some kind of news event.

by FischerBlack
on Tue, 07/21/2009 - 21:08
#11546

It's hard to say what the fundamentals require right now. The massive AIG/Lehman unwinds of last fall and the Q1 selloff pushed the market down to a level that was not justified by the corporate earnings picture we're seeing emerge 6 months later. The market thus moves up back to its pre-September, downward-sloping trendline. By now we're almost back to trend, but not quite yet. So, if nothing exciting happens in the meantime, as corporate earnings get worse and worse, and the consumer withers to a dessicated corpse, the market should basically follow this downward trendline to a test of the low by the end of the year. If nothing has improved by then, we break the low and look for a new bottom Belldandy knows where.

That's basically how I expect this to work, and I've been trading accordingly.

 

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Jul 26th, 2009 at 09:43:55 AM EST
People want to know they have a legitimate shot at getting a fair deal. Otherwise, the markets lose their integrity."

hahahahaha. What integrity ??

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Jul 26th, 2009 at 09:56:34 AM EST
Rogue Algorithms And Other Mutually Assured Destruction Program Trading Alternatives
Posted by Tyler Durden at 12:54 PM  July 10, 2009

Why Institutional Investors Should Be Concerned About High Frequency Traders   By Sal L. Arnuk and Joseph Saluzzi

A Themis Trading LLC Mini White Paper

It is now generally understood that high frequency traders (HFTs) are dominating the equity market, generating as much as 70% of the volume.

HFTs are computerized trading programs that make money two ways, in general. They offer bids in such a way so as to make tiny amounts of money from per share liquidity rebates provided by the exchanges. Or they make tiny per share long or short profits. While this might sound like small change, HFTs collectively execute billions of shares a day, making it an extremely profitable business.

Why should institutional or retail investors care? After all, aren't HFTs adding liquidity? That's what they and the exchanges, who court their business, say.

There's a lot to worry about.

1. HFTs provide low quality liquidity.

In the old days, when NYSE specialists or NASDAQ market makers added liquidity, they were required to maintain a fair and orderly market, and to post a quote that was part of the National Best Bid and Offer a minimum percentage of time. HFTs have no such requirements. They have no minimum shares to provide nor do they have a minimum quote time. And they could turn off their liquidity at any time. When an HFT computer spots a real order, the HFT is not likely to go against it and take the other side. The institution is then faced with a very tough stock to trade.

2. HFT volume can generate false trading signals.

This can cause other investors to buy at a higher price, or sell at a lower price, than they would otherwise. A spike in HFT volume can cause an institutional algorithm order based on a percentage of volume to be too aggressive. A spike can attract momentum investors, further exaggerating price moves. Seeing such a spike, options traders can start to build positions, which, in turn, can attract risk arbitrage traders who believe there's potential news that could affect the stock.

3. HFT computer servers are faster than other trading systems.

Because most HFT servers are co-located at exchanges, they can beat out institutional or retail orders, causing them to pay more or sell for less than they should have for a stock.

Then there are the "what if" problems that could be created by HFTs.

1. What if a regulation like the uptick rule were enacted?

Volumes could implode and stocks that appeared highly liquid could become extremely difficult to trade with wide spreads and no depth in the quote.

2. What if a "rogue" algorithm entered the market?

Many HFTs are hedge funds that enter their orders into the market through a "sponsored access" arrangement with a broker. Many of these arrangements do not have any pre-trade risk controls since these clients demand the fastest speed. Due to the fully electronic nature of the equity markets today, one keypunch error could wreak havoc. Nothing would be able to stop a market destroying order once the button was pressed. (My bold.)

Gives new meaning to the term "mutually assured destruction?"



"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Jul 26th, 2009 at 09:59:22 AM EST
I think that distorted competition is not the main issue here.
What's at stakes is the true meaning and need for market places.
They are useful because they are places where firms find there needed money for their developement.
Owning a share of a company for a fraction of second or even few days only is economically insane and meaningless.
Those markets should be regulated in way that you need to actually ask yourself the right questions about the value of a share.
High-frequency trading is gambling nothing else, because what you buy or sell doesn't need to be related to reality.
I'm surprised that regulators are not pulling their guns on this, after all the banking scandals we recently heard of.
I'm all the more surprised that bankers would venture on such terrains. The decidely have no morality.
by akka on Sun Jul 26th, 2009 at 01:43:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Welcome to ET akka!  On your points above see NBBooks' diary, Debunking the Myth of the Financial Markets


"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Jul 26th, 2009 at 01:57:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Companies do not (should not) care what happens to their stock once it is issued. IPOs and stock expansions aside, the stock market is a purely secondary market. That means that the stock market is not there to provide capital to companies. It is there to provide liquidity to the people who provide capital to the companies.

As for whether that is a good thing or not, well, it's a double-edged sword...

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Jul 26th, 2009 at 02:35:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Except that once stock is issued companies can be punished by 'analysts' for 'not performing'.

And also that a large proportion of stock is owned by executives who are often transient, so there's another strategic pressure to 'perform'.

The fiction of markets - apart from the basic fact that the idea is a raving nonsense - is that everyone has an equal opportunity to profit from trading.

The reality is that most people don't trade, most of those who trade don't profit, those who profit the most win by cheating and price-fixing.

Even on its own (insane) terms the entire system is one giant putrid pile of moral corruption.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Jul 27th, 2009 at 08:28:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If the company is not dependent on the stock market for raising capital, it can tell the analysts to go fuck themselves.

The company cannot, by itself, check the tendency of executives to loot it and leg it. But fortunately a kind god has endowed the state with a perfectly fine means for doing so, in the form of 99 % marginal tax rates.

And I don't have a problem with the fact that most people who gamble in a casino lose money. What I have a problem with is the fact that the state uses my taxes to compensate the casino when the losing gamblers can't or won't cover their losses. Oh, and the fact that my debit card and checking account are joined at the hip to the casino in question.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Jul 27th, 2009 at 12:48:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If the company is not dependent on the stock market for raising capital, it can tell the analysts to go fuck themselves.
 That is why some companies stay or go private or have over half of their stock closely held.  One of the prices analysts can exact for disappointing performance is the need to engage in stock repurchases to keep the price up.  The ultimate price is the hostile take-over.  If a company is majority publicly held, it can never know what the future holds as it swims in the shark filled ocean of market capitalism.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Jul 27th, 2009 at 04:04:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My speciality is private (or non-public) family companies. I am involved with several in my business.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Jul 27th, 2009 at 04:08:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
True on the hostile takeover. But you can limit the possibilities of that by putting a sharp crimp on the levels of leverage that the market participants riggers can play with.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Jul 27th, 2009 at 05:06:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But you can limit the possibilities of that by putting a sharp crimp on the levels of leverage

Congress could enact such limitations, in theory.  So, probably, could the SEC and possibly others.  But given the nature of political realities, this is highly unlikely.


"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Jul 27th, 2009 at 05:17:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I believe the SEC has all necessary powers already. No further legislation needed.

I am well aware that it is politically impossible. But when something is politically impossible it means that it is somebody's fault (as opposed to physically impossible tasks which are nobody's fault). Those somebodies should get their asses grilled next primary season.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Jul 27th, 2009 at 09:31:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I also believe the SEC has that authority, and that the Fed could force restraint on the banks at least.  I also believe that, if enough people understood what was happening that such actions would be more likely.  But we just had the Millennium and yet here we still are.

This is the most maddening aspect of our current situation.  If 60% of the electorate understood what is really happening and why, and responded with appropriate anger and action, the situation could be quickly resolved.  But they don't and it can't.

I believe that our social and economic reality is an ongoing social construct and therefore amenable to change.  If enough people understood that, we could change the nature of our world.  But now most people believe our current society and economy are a given, objective reality to which we have to adapt ourselves. Most people are afraid to accept that, collectively they are responsible for the nature of our society and economy, but they are.  Accepting it as a given is a vote for the status quo.

I believe that what we have created is a severely crabbed and limiting economy, society and reality and that it is far preferable and easier to change all three than to try to adapt to what currently is.  But there are winners in the current system and the winners see such changes as a loss for themselves and  have disproportionate power to stymie change.

Most of that power is embedded in the nature of the common perceptions of existing reality as the only possible reality.  People are recruited unawares to defend and support the very system that is oppressing them by the fact of being taught to think only in the terms of that set of perceptual frames. Undermining that common, shared set of perceptual frames is the essence of our challenge.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Jul 27th, 2009 at 10:48:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
authority.  

Unfortunately, the SEC is also part of the criminal enterprise.

Captured, co-opted, turned, or bribed--however it has come about--the SEC is specifically not doing the job it is chartered to do.  

And hasn't been for the last ten years.  

The Fates are kind.

by Gaianne on Thu Aug 6th, 2009 at 06:18:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It a company is "punished" by "analysts" for "not performing" and this results in the stock being undervalued, the proper response from management is not to whine about it but to repurchase its own stock since they "know" it is now undervalued.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Aug 26th, 2009 at 04:42:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not so much. It may be under- or over-valued in market terms. But whether it's over- or under-valued, the important words there are 'in market terms.'

Market valuations are almost guaranteed to be systematically wrong about the true health and prospects of the company. Or indeed of any company.

So even if management buy back stock, they're still trapped in market nonsense if they're considering trading it publicly again.

The only escape is permanent private ownership, or strictly limited private trading.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Aug 26th, 2009 at 05:12:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
ThatBritGuy:
It may be under- or over-valued in market terms. But whether it's over- or under-valued, the important words there are 'in market terms.'
Well, in theory it could be undervalued in terms of the "present value of future cash flows" which, as we know, bears precious little relation to "market value".

In that case, the management can make a profit by buying back the stock which, incidentally, pushes up the share price.

Screaming at the market is just teh stoopid.

Though you can do it if it helps you distract others from your share buybacks ;-)

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Aug 26th, 2009 at 05:29:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Screaming at teh stoopid is only teh stoopid if you accept teh stoopid as an inevitable fact of life, like death, taxes and Paris Hilton.

Management could also make a profit by - I don't know - doing something radical and dangerous like innovating, or improving the company culture.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Aug 26th, 2009 at 05:59:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Management wants to avoid a hostile takeover, which is why a low share price is a problem, and why share buybacks make sense (apart from boosting the balance sheet).

Company culture? Whazzat?

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Aug 26th, 2009 at 06:02:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't agree that Distorted competitiiom isn't the big issueif you have even large investors finding they are at a disadvantage, then there will be a tendency to move away to exchanges that are less overtly crooked.

High frequency trading isn't gambling more than other sorts, what it is if you want to follow the gambling analogy is playing with a marked deck.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Jul 27th, 2009 at 08:07:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
High frequency trading isn't gambling more than other sorts, what it is if you want to follow the gambling analogy is playing with a marked deck.

Marked cards and video cameras that let the "house" see the hands of all of the players.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Jul 27th, 2009 at 11:57:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Bashing Goldman Sachs Is Simply a Game for Fools: Michael Lewis - Bloomberg.com
America stands at a crossroads, and Goldman Sachs now owns both of them. In choosing which road to take, ordinary Americans must not be distracted by unproductive resentment toward the toll-takers. To that end we at Goldman Sachs would like to dispel several false and insidious rumors.

Rumor No. 1: "Goldman Sachs controls the U.S. government."

Every time we hear the phrase "the United States of Goldman Sachs" we shake our heads in wonder. Every ninth-grader knows that the U.S. government consists of three branches. Goldman owns just one of these outright; the second we simply rent, and the third we have no interest in at all. (Note there isn't a single former Goldman employee on the Supreme Court.)
...
For too long we have allowed others to emulate us. Now we are working productively with Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner and the Congress to ensure that we alone are allowed to take the sort of risks that might destroy the financial system.



"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Tue Jul 28th, 2009 at 09:09:41 AM EST
High-Frequency Distraction     By Ron Insana

Per Tyler Durden, Ron Insana is a newly minted contributing editor to CNBC.  Perhaps he will air comments like these.

   The New York Times and The Wall Street Journal are taking aim at a new form of computerized trading known as "High Frequency" trading. The algorithm-based trading is allegedly an illegal form of front-running, as high-frequency traders hook into exchange computers and use "flash trades" to suss out incoming order flow and use the lightning speed of their own programs to jump ahead of customer orders. Critics argue that individual investors are at a distinct disadvantage for this reason and a variety of others. The proximity of high-frequency computers, which can be placed next to exchange computers for a fee, allows for an almost-osmotic transfer of information. Senator Charles Schumer (D, N.Y.) is asking the SEC to ban "flash trades," which are phony orders placed by high-frequency programs that aim to fool market participants into entering orders. The programs jump in front of customer orders and gain a trading advantage. If that is indeed what is happening, it qualifies as "front-running," an illegal practice on Wall Street. If high-frequency traders are just faster than everyone else and not illegally jumping in front of others or paying off the exchanges to get preferential trading treatment, then this new area of technology-based trading is no less legitimate than the use of the telegraph, the telephone, the ticker, computers, handheld devices or older-style "black box" or "dark pool" programs that give sophisticated traders the ability to simply trade faster. I'd prefer that regulators look into whether a firm like Goldman Sachs (GS) -- whose former executives continue to run the New York Stock Exchange (NYX) ; advised on the merger between NYSE and Archipelago, and formerly owned a portion of the combined entity; own Speer, Leeds & Kellogg, the largest specialist firm on the Big Board floor; and control the greatest number of seats in the equity markets -- unfairly view order and information flow ahead of its customers and clients. I am far more concerned about that than I am about the emergence of "high-frequency" trading. But the press won't touch that topic. It's easier to go after the dreaded speculators and dark pool traders than lose access to the most profitable and prestigious firm on Wall Street.

I fear it is not "losing access to the most profitable and prestigious firm on Wall Street" so much as  incurring the wrath of the most powerful financial firm on Wall Street, a firm that could influence whether and on what terms their employer could get financing or face a takeover.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jul 30th, 2009 at 01:44:14 AM EST
One month on, it's interesting to note the tidal wave of nothing much that's been the sole outcome of the Goldman revelations.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Aug 26th, 2009 at 05:04:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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