Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.

Monday Open Thread

by In Wales Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 10:06:55 AM EST

Say what?


Display:
What?

notes from no w here
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 10:07:56 AM EST
What?!
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 10:19:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What?!$

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 10:21:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Quoi ?

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 10:22:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Was?!
by Fran on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 10:34:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Pero, porque?

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 10:35:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Should I PN the difference between porque, por qué, por que and porqué?

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 10:38:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Do you want to?
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 10:46:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not difficult.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 10:49:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Then go for it.
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 11:48:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
¿Por qué? = why?
Porque... = because...

(but "Why? - Because" is "¿Por qué? - Porque sí")

el porqué = the why (as in "the whys and wherefores")

por que = for/by which/what/whom

So Ka?

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 04:04:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]


"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 06:04:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
OK, ich stehe auf Deutsch.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 10:48:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Deutsch tut weh.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 10:55:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Warum?
by Fran on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 10:57:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Weil CH auf Deutsch steht.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 10:59:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
 إيه؟

or if I want to be all formal & stuff...

ماذا؟

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 10:44:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What?
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 03:12:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
we should relabel this open thread as the "ET Hangover edition".

*hic *

by Nomad (Bjinse) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 10:19:43 AM EST
I had my wasted day yesterday...

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 10:21:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I was partly drunk on Paris as well.

Further withdrawal symptoms include imaging that people speak French to me when they don't, and looking for high, metallic constructions at the horizon.

by Nomad (Bjinse) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 10:27:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Mais les gens te parlent français, quoi d'autre?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 04:22:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
D'ailleurs, Tribune Européenne a toujours été en français...

</revisionism>

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

by Melanchthon on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 05:37:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Wasted day"!  Singular! Oh, productive man! Oh the joys of geezerdom!  Well, it was raining in the AM and I did do a little shopping and put in about two hours of actual work in the late afternoon, getting the first coat of paint on the portion of the eaves I have been refurbishing. Watched a movie with the wife in the evening, a CD of an old Mickey Rourke, Johnny Hansom, from 1989, being remaindered at WalMart and ended the evening with another chapter from the book I am currently reading. The entire day, of course, was interspersed with periodic dips into ET. I am hoping for a similarly "productive" day today.  

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 10:46:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hangover from lack of sleep in my case. Strangely enough I only had an alcohol hangover on Saturday morning, though I certainly came off Geezer's boat in a less than sober state.
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 10:58:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
For me it's the ET washed out edition. I'm not up to doing this 4 days of drinking and having fun anymore. I just feel very tired and will probably go to bed early (preferably in the next hour tho' I may have to wait till 9:00). I "can't take the pace" as we say here.

London seems colourless compared to Paris.

I'd like to say thanks to LEP for organinng the evening meal on Friday. Sorry I couldn't make Pere Lachaise cemetary but the description on the website of the location for the brewpub we were visiting was somwewhat cartographically challenged.

also thanks to Geezer for allowing us to invade his boat on Sunday.

Also to Jerome for so generously paying for saturday's meals.

and to everyone who came (and wanted to come - you were missed) for making it such a wonderful pleasure filled weekend.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 11:25:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
which reminds me, sorry I didn't get to say cheerio to afew this morning. we seem to have completely missed each other in the hotel this morning.

ps As I was walking to the metro, an apartment was on fire. Is something incediary going on in the 16th ?

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 01:04:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I looked for you but didn't see you.

As I walked up the street the fire engines were racing by.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 04:13:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Told my wife I'll remain on water for the remainder of the month. But it was nice (the wine and the company of course).
by Bernard (bernard) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 04:32:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We saw this grave at pere lachaise and thought of you. :-)

by Fran on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 10:52:57 AM EST
And I just figured out how to upload videos on you tube. I tested my video feature on my new camera and here is a short sequence from last night on the TGV. :-)

by Fran on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 12:04:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Aw, Fran, now it's too easy for DoDo!

I was going to ask him to identify the grave from these details:

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 04:19:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I sure seem to mess up everybodies planes today. I think I am going to be now, covering my head under the cover. :-)
by Fran on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 04:35:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

meaning: finally alone!

by Fran on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 10:55:29 AM EST
I found some information about this:
"Mon mari disait souvent, en plaisantant, qu'il voulait voir écrit sur sa tombe, comme épitaphe: "Enfin seul!". Mais, je pense qu'il aurait été content d'êre entouré de grandes légendes comme Appollinaire et Paul Eluard, deux de ses poètes préférés, les peintres Théodore Gericault et Eugène Delacroix, l'humoriste Pierre Desproges, les compositeurs Frédéric Chopin et Luigi Cherubini, et les chanteurs Piaf and Gilbert Becaud, ce dernier étant un de ses amis d'enfance", indique le communiqué de presse, reprenant les mots de sa veuve.
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 11:04:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Fran. I was going to us this as the lead photo on this week's photo blog ;(

I'll have to search for another.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 11:33:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!! Would it be bad to use it anyway?
by Fran on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 11:38:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Nama Bill in its current form rejected by Green grassroots - The Irish Times - Mon, Sep 14, 2009

GOVERNMENT PLANS to establish the National Asset Management Agency (Nama) have suffered a significant setback with only 13 per cent of the attendance at a Green Party conference expressing support for the legislation in its current form.

The Nama Bill came in fourth out of six options placed before an all- day meeting of more than 140 Green activists from around the country held in Athlone, Co Westmeath.

The most popular choice at 23 per cent was for an agency which would pay only the current market rate for loans transferred to the banks.

In second place at 20-21 per cent was the so-called "Swedish solution", which would also mean paying only the market price for loans.

This will place further pressure on Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan, who is to announce the valuation he will place on bad loans in the Dáil on Wednesday.

Although Green Party activists voted by a large majority to withhold the results of Saturday's "preferendum" for the time being, The Irish Times understands the results were as follows:

1) Nama with strong Green Party policy conditions and only current market values being paid for transferred loans: 23 per cent;

2) The "Swedish solution" with each institution forced to write down its loan book to current market values and the possibility of separate asset management companies for individual banks: 20-21 per cent;

3) A free-market, laissez-faire approach, with banks left to fend for themselves: 14-15 per cent;

4) The Nama legislation in its present form: 13 per cent;

5) Partial nationalisation, with a "good bank" to assist small and medium enterprises: 12-13 per cent;

6) Full nationalisation: 12 per cent.

Green Party sources have cautioned strongly against premature interpretation of the vote as a signal that the party would walk out of the Government.

The attendance at the special policy-making convention on Nama and the renegotiated programme for government on October 10th would have an attendance three or four times greater than last Saturday's consultative session.

However, the vote is still likely to cause concern among the party's coalition partners.

Pressure will increase on the Green Party leadership to win further concessions and on Fianna Fáil to agree to them.

Green Party sources said there was "a very intense debate" about the valuation announcement to be made by Mr Lenihan.

The format of the special convention on October 10th, which will be crucial for the future of the Government, remains unclear and is likely to be strongly influenced by negotiations on the programme for government.



notes from no w here
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 11:00:03 AM EST
Reading the article I don't see a Statement of Purpose.  What are the Greens trying to accomplish?  What's the goal?  The dispersal pattern of voting indicates, to me, they don't have an agreed-upon economic policy.  

Until the End is establish arguing Means is a waste of time.  

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 12:10:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Allegedly it is a consultative conference to provide guidance to party leaders in negotiations with Fianna Fail (senior Government coalition partner) over the shape of the Nama legislation - leading up to a full decision making party conference in October.  

However, by then, Nama may already be cast in stone.  At that point any discussion of Nama will probably be a vote of confidence in the party leadership, and a defeat of the leadership should result in the Greens withdrawing from Government and, in all probability, a general election.

Given that the Greens, as well as Fianna Fail, will probably be decimated in any such election, it will end up being a choice between short term survival, and a long term ethical and principled stance.

As they used to say about Labour:  "Labour is forever wrestling with its conscience, and Labour always wins!"

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 12:17:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This is shortly before Bernard and gk joined us. From the left: Helen, Fran, and afew.

All of the food was really, really good.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 12:00:09 PM EST
That should be Helen, Fran, dvx, and afew. Oops.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 12:00:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yet another person who is completely different to how I'd imagine. For some reason I had it Fixed in my head that dvx was oneof the younger site members. So either the typing produced is young or its a hard life im observing ;)

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 12:08:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
dvx is well cool!
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 12:10:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Flattery my dear will get you everywhere. ;-)

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman
by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 12:50:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... and I'll have you know I'm all of 29!

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman
by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 01:43:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Aren't we all...
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 01:58:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
personally for the last mumbleteen years.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 02:02:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, I first thought it was a picture of some Paris bums...

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 12:10:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Fran has an excellent collection of photos (which I hope she posts) that will prove your opinion...

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 12:13:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Your wish is my comand, or something... :-)
by Fran on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 12:20:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

by Fran on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 12:19:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Be careful : Alcohol drinking is forbidden in some Paris parks. But only after 4 pm, so I guess you guys weren't risking anything...

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 12:23:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We ain't scared of jackbooted French Kulture police!

(That little park, rue du Parc-Royal, didn't forbid it. It even specifically allowed sitting on the grass. Which we didn't do all the same out of respect. For what don't ask).

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 04:28:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Are there French chiggers?!

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 09:15:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have sat in parks throughout Western Europe and have yet to experience Chigger One.

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman
by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Tue Sep 15th, 2009 at 02:37:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
They're called aoûtats. You can get them when gardening at this time of year, but I wouldn't expect to get them from sitting on short grass. Not that I've really tried.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Sep 15th, 2009 at 03:11:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But there was also nice food and not only wine!

by Fran on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 12:23:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I BEG your pardon?!?

"Clochard" sounds much more dignified. ;)

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 12:56:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Here's my 2 CENTS:

To be a clochard, you have to be a French resident...

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

by Melanchthon on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 02:21:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A homeless resident, yes, sir.
by Bernard (bernard) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 04:35:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
was it cocteau who said something about a clochard under a bridge of gold?

google unhelpful!

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 04:56:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As millman posted the last lunch I continue with the first dinner.

by Fran on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 01:03:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ah it has sound !!

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 01:07:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, I wasn't sure as the camera does not play the sound.
by Fran on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 01:09:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Excellent!

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 01:21:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Cool! It is really good quality.
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 02:00:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]


you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 04:00:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
For preserving the record of these immortal words for posterity.
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 07:18:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
boom

"We're not going to make an atomic bomb, so don't bother us like with Iran," [Chavez] said on state television. "We're going to develop nuclear energy with peaceful purposes."


Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 12:35:36 PM EST
Feral Scholar » Blog Archive » Obama's War & the Game

ASMC by other names is a very real, very potent political identity. The Game operators in both the political parties know this, respect this, and kowtow to it. Note how the term "the middle class" is a shared word field for politicians of every stripe now. The ASMC is a self-conscious, self-replicating, active political identity. That is why it is the center of gravity for political maneuvering inside the US.

For the time being, the ASMC is content to support and idealize the state and its actions - including war. But their real interest is in survival-with-privilege. The ASMC sees no acceptable alternative to its status quo, and it is a class of people who have been disciplined to suppress their imaginations for everything except fantasy and entertainment commodities. The ASMC is also smart enough to know, in their secret private spaces, that they have lost the ability to survive without their global life-support-system. They literally do not know how to subsist. That anxiety suffuses them; and canny political operators know how to massage that anxiety into fear.

The ASMC is also quite intelligent enough to know that we need war to ensure oil. No reason to raise the topic in polite company, but they know it... we know it. The Masters of the Lie are salving our psyches with carbon-trading schemes, hybrid cars, and ethanol - believed mostly by people who call themselves liberal. Most of us, including the ASMC, have at least a sense that the truth is more cruel. Coal we have right here in the US, so we can shit all over West Virginia with impunity... prerogative of the state, you see. But oil! We can't keep the cars rolling or agribusiness booming without that. We are so dependent that if we run short of oil, we can run short of food. The ASMC... is right. We can't preserve our current way of life without an Energy War.

The zeitgeist is flying miles above the heads of Barack Obama or any other political leader. The reason the topic has to come up as "Obama" anything is there was a cult of personality that developed, and a lot of people hung their hearts on "change" they didn't ever, really understand.

Now something called Obama is the issue we have to understand to understand the war.

Moral War

Standards are like paths picked through fields of equanimity, worn into hard wide roads over time, used always because of collective habit, expectation, and convenience. The pleasures and perils of picking one's own path through the field are soon forgotten; the logic or illogic of the course of the road is soon rationalized by the mere fact of the road.

-Patricia Williams

miaow

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 02:21:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]


'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 02:23:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This ASMC bloc is financially, agriculturally, geographically, and psychologically dependent on the US's highly entropic (energy-wasting) techno-social grid.

mmmrrrrrr, "the entropy we inhabit."

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Wed Sep 16th, 2009 at 09:22:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
melo:
The ASMC is also smart enough to know, in their secret private spaces, that they have lost the ability to survive without their global life-support-system. They literally do not know how to subsist.
Who is "financially, agriculturally, geographically or psychologically" able to survive? The "survivalist" subculture in the US?

Surely there is more than just the "ASMC" that is dependent on the society they are part of for survival. And, just as surely, more people than survivalists or subsistence farmers have the ability to survive a disruption of their social/economic/technological support structure.

I mean, come on.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 16th, 2009 at 09:50:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I suppose by "to subsist" the feral scholar means to survive, in the most broad, biological sense applicable to a national population, or as Mr Obama has styled the putative American culture, "our nation's character." Both speakers' interests metaphysical concepts appear to preclude, in principle, their regard for idiosyncratic "survivalists" and one-acre farmers, whether thar be Paul Spencer or Branch Davidian zombies.

My impression is that a lamention on conspicuous consumption, addiction, gluttony, OCD and soforth illustrates why the many mental and physical disorders said to afflict bourgeois mores and to infect working-class politics obstruct "survival" of a nation, insofar as the state's agenda are believed to provide coherence and safety to mindless activities.

I smirked. I abandoned the essay after half a reading. I can think of and have encountered personally numerous so-called unintended consequences of automation, besides not knowing how to pluck a chicken or treat late blight.

Surely there is more than just the "ASMC" that is dependent on the society they are part of for survival.

Yeah. There is the statistical class known as one-percenters who are dependents of multiple societies from which member collect rents and sequester resources. There is also the statistical class known as underclass who are dependents of the state, which ought not be confused with the society of underclass.

surely, more people than survivalists or subsistence farmers have the ability to survive a disruption

You've been gone too long.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Wed Sep 16th, 2009 at 01:53:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC NEWS | Business | Brown 'appalled' by bank bonuses

Prime Minister Gordon Brown says he is "appalled" that some financial firms are continuing - or even extending - their bonus culture.

In a BBC interview to mark a year since the collapse of Lehman Brothers, he said global action was needed to sort out "unfinished business" at banks.

Cleaning up the sector, including global regulation was needed, he added.



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 01:35:45 PM EST
but didn't that nice Mr Mandleson say the labour party were relaxed about people becoming filthy rich ? So is gordon in Labour or did something exciting happen while I was away ?

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 02:05:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Helen:
but didn't that nice Mr Mandleson say the labour party were relaxed about people becoming filthy rich

...so long as they pay their taxes.  

That line is always used out of context. Not that I agree with anything Peter Mandelson says, but anyway.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 02:08:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah, so this is where it starts eh ? From a free thinking left winger suddenly we're a loyalist defending the party from the heathen who would bring them down. ;-))

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 02:14:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I guess I have some deformity that doesn't allow me to see where the mainstream views on music and sports -- maybe even all culture -- come from.

I've always thought Michael Jordan was a great basketball player.  But The Greatest Player Ever(TM)?

You could argue it, sure, but it seems to be taken as a no-brainer.  I can name at least five or six players who I'd argue were better than Jordan.  A great player, yes, but one who routinely couldn't get it up when he didn't have a great team to back him up.

And that's before deducting points for Jordan being a total asshole.  Which I normally wouldn't do, but he deserves it.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 02:04:48 PM EST
Jordan played in an era that proved extremely beneficial to him from the POV of history - he played against peers (as in Great Men of the game) early on in his career who forced him to raise his game to the peak of his potential (Magic's Lakers and Thomas' Pistons in particular) - but once he reached his peak in the early 90s, no one was in the same universe.

In the decade since his retirement there have been several guys who could have stopped him: Kobe, Shaq, LeBron, probably even Wade. Back in the early to late 90s guys like Payton, Ewing, Barkley (toward the end of his productive career), and Malone (a pushover) weren't going to stop him.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 02:40:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Guardian: Humpback whale found dead in Thames

A juvenile male humpback whale has been found dead in the Thames near Dartford Bridge, Kent, the first ever to be stranded in the river.

The 9.5m (28ft) carcass of the humpback had been spotted by members of the British Divers Marine Life Rescue (BDMLR) off Gravesend...

A postmortem examination indicated the whale had died of starvation, and was estimated to be about two years old... the whale may have been confused by the topography of the Thames and ambient noise, or because it was sick or because climate change caused shift of the routes - vast migrations.

by Magnifico on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 02:50:04 PM EST

An artistic performance by kitties.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 03:42:10 PM EST
Must get a skylight on my next house

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 05:35:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Pretty impressive numbers.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 at 05:11:54 PM EST


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