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Spiegel's Euro Delirium Tremens

by Carrie Tue May 18th, 2010 at 03:18:11 AM EST

From the depths of Germany's tortured psyche comes the following delusional feature: The Hollow Euro: Specter of Inflation Haunts Europe (05/17/2010)

If Europe's single currency is really to be saved, fundamental reforms have to follow the emergency bailout by euro-zone members. The biggest danger comes, however, from the European Central Bank, which has given up its role as the protector of price stability. The risk of inflation is increasing. By SPIEGEL staff.
The really interesting thing is that the article blatantly contradicts the following interview with Trichet: A 'Quantum Leap' in Governance of the Euro Zone Is Needed (05/15/2010)
In a SPIEGEL interview, Jean-Claude Trichet, the 67-year-old president of the European Central Bank, discusses the largest financial rescue package in the history of Europe, the role and importance of speculators in the euro crisis and the weakness shown by politicians in the euro zone member states.
The wonderful thing is that you can deconstruct Spiegel's insanity with Trichet's only slightly less insane utterances, which still bear their own deconstruction.


The Spiegel feature starts with the following picture caption:

A Hungarian money changer corrects the sale price of foreign currencies in Budapest: The euro zone is running the risk of inflation.
You have to admit the logic is unassailable. By combining non-sequitur with proof by assertion Spiegel's argument lacks any handle one could use to retort. It's brilliant. But let Trichet answer the charge himself:
SPIEGEL: The Germans react particularly sensitively because the Bundesbank had always refused, even in times of crisis, to purchase government bonds. Can you understand these specific German concerns?

Trichet: I fully understand the particular sensitivity of my German friends. But facts are facts: Inflation in Germany has never been as low as it has been over the past 11 years. The German fellow citizens can see that the euro has indeed been a good store of value over time.

Bonds? Did Spiegel say "purchase bonds"?
Now the guardians of the euro are purchasing government bonds from troubled countries like Greece, Spain and Ireland -- thereby breaking a taboo that the ECB has always tried to respect. The central bank, which has always prided itself on its independence, has capitulated to the wishes of the politicians.
But are they? I derive no small amount of pleasure from seeing insane inflation hawk Trichet getting so much grief from even more insane people, such as Spiegel and Axel Weber's merry band of monetarists
SPIEGEL: In the course of the crisis, the governing council of the European Central Bank decided, for the first time, to buy the government bonds of troubled EU countries -- thus breaking a taboo. The president of Germany's central bank, the Bundesbank, Axel Weber, his Dutch counterpart and the ECB's chief economist, Jürgen Stark, voted against this move. Seldom is there so much dissent within the highest decision-making body for the euro.

Trichet: As you know, I never comment on individual views. Our measures are explicitly authorized by the (EU) treaty. We are not embarking on quantitative easing. We are helping some market segments to function more normally. And, as I said, we will take back all the additional liquidity that we will supply in our Securities Markets Program.

Oh, so that's authorised by treaty. Now, is it?
SPIEGEL: In an interview he gave to SPIEGEL a few months ago, Jürgen Stark, the ECB's chief economist, said that the ECB was not permitted to buy government bonds. Who is right?

Trichet: I have already said that this is explicitly authorized by the treaty

So, is Jürgen Stark ignorant or malicious?

Migeru:

This is the original discussion here on ET of what the ECB can or cannot do, had on February 11
Article 123
(ex Article 101 TEC)

  1. Overdraft facilities or any other type of credit facility with the European Central Bank or with the central banks of the Member States (hereinafter referred to as "national central banks") in favour of Union institutions, bodies, offices or agencies, central governments, regional, local or other public authorities, other bodies governed by public law, or public undertakings of Member States shall be prohibited, as shall the purchase directly from them by the European Central Bank or national central banks of debt instruments.

  2. Paragraph 1 shall not apply to publicly owned credit institutions which, in the context of the supply of reserves by central banks, shall be given the same treatment by national central banks and the European Central Bank as private credit institutions.
Okay, so the ECB can intervene in the secondary market to prevent price speculation on Euro sovereign debt.

What the ECB cannot do is fund a public debt issue, and that makes some sense from certain ideological perspectives.

To which JakeS perspicaciously replied
Because by having passed through the bid-ask spread of a major investment bank, it is suddenly converted from a loan into a monetary instrument?
But in any case, this is all the fault of the evil French and their love for soft money (after all, they did devalue the Franc once)
Still, the price for this bailout is high -- possibly too high. The events on that dramatic weekend in Brussels marked the birth of a gigantic European transfer union, where previously unthinkable sums of money are made available to rescue southern euro-zone members. But over and above that, a number of determined politicians under the leadership of French President Nicolas Sarkozy have managed to undermine the independence of the European Central Bank (ECB).

Ever since the launch of the euro over 11 years ago, the French have been annoyed that the common currency generally adheres to German principles. While the French central bank is traditionally viewed as an executive organ of government growth and employment policies, the European Central Bank is politically independent and exclusively committed to the goal of achieving price stability, just like the Bundesbank in postwar West Germany.

Over the past few years, Paris has repeatedly tried to bring the European monetary authority to heel. French government representatives complained at times about interest rates that they felt were too high. At other times, they called for a devaluation of the euro to boost their own exports. Their requests were never granted. Until recently, the ECB enjoyed a reputation for combating inflation even more resolutely than the legendary guardians of the German mark.

All of that has changed since last week. Under the mounting pressure of waves of speculation against the euro, German Chancellor Angela Merkel has allowed herself to be talked into a bailout package that is nothing less than a general overhaul of the monetary union according to the agenda set by the French. In addition to letting the European Commission use the central bank to achieve its own aims, the Germans have accepted the fact that several monetary policy principles are being cast by the wayside. The central bankers are making their printing presses available to finance government loans. They have accepted that European countries are liable for the debts of individual states. They are putting more money in circulation, even though there is already so much liquidity on the markets that a number of experts anticipate that this will soon trigger a rise in inflation.

Never mind that Trichet debunked this nonsense two days earlier (but he's French, what he says can't be trusted)
SPIEGEL: The general public has gained the impression that the governments pressured the ECB to take this decision. That would be an appalling signal in terms of its independence and credibility.

Trichet: That is ridiculous! We take our decisions completely independently and have a track record of taking positions contrary to those of the heads of state and government -- in 2004 in refusing to decrease rates, in 2005 in increasing rates against their wishes, and throughout this period in fiercely defending the Stability and Growth Pact including defending it against the German chancellor of the time. Just who has been weak over the past few months? It was not the ECB. The governments with their high debts were weak. Was I weak myself when I explained to all floor leaders in the Bundestag (Germany's federal parliament) just why it was important to decide rapidly? Was I weak when I informed the heads of state and government in full independence that the situation was grave and that they had to live up to their responsibilities? We took our decision on Sunday in full independence.

Independence, independence, independence!
SPIEGEL: Thus far, the ECB has been strong and independent because it had repeatedly rejected demands from the political domain for lower interest rates or too expansionary a monetary policy. You have now consented for the first time.

Trichet: We have consented nothing to the heads of state and government. We always take our decisions taking into account only our own assessment of the situation and not the "recommendations" of governments, markets or social partners. We decided on August 9, 2007 to supply €95 billion of liquidity in a few hours because our money market was being disrupted. And I could give many such examples. As I have already said, if there has been any direction of influence, it has been more in the opposite direction, from the ECB to governments, when making recommendations to them. And, let me tell you that those who took very significant responsibilities were those not applying the spirit and the letter of the Stability and Growth Pact. And neither were those who did not carry out their surveillance as they should have, and as we constantly asked them to do.

We are Der Spiegel who says Ni!
SPIEGEL: What makes you so sure that Europe's top politicians will not now use the ECB as a permanent money printing machine?

Trichet: Again, we will take all the additional liquidity that we are bringing into the system back out. Our monetary policy stance is unchanged. We have never hesitated for one second to take the decisions needed in order to ensure price stability, without taking into account any pressure groups.

But forget about unseriös Trichet, what do the really serious people think?
There is a growing fear that a gigantic wave of debt will soon roll over Europe and the euro-zone countries will deal with it as elegantly and unscrupulously as they have so often done in the past -- by allowing inflation to reduce their debts. These concerns are shared by more than just the notorious paper money skeptics who predict the return of hyperinflation.

Even serious experts like Joachim Fels, a top economist at Morgan Stanley, have no qualms about addressing the likelihood of such a development. Although it is an extreme scenario, says Fels, it certainly cannot be dismissed out of hand. At the very least, the central bank can apparently "no longer resist the temptation to use inflation to reduce the mounting public debt."

Max Otte, a professor from the German city of Worms who foresaw the crash of the financial markets before others, sees the supposed stability union as already being well on the road towards becoming an inflation union. According to Otte's calculations, annual price increases of roughly 7 percent would be enough to reduce assets by one-half in just under 10 years. "We are eroding the euro from within," says the economist, "all the signs point towards inflation."

You know, it's much better to allow this mountain of debt to crush our economy. Deflation and unemployment are good, if only to punish those swarthy Untermeschen for borrowing from German banks in order to buy German cars.

Anyway, the interesting thing is how proud Trichet is of himself for his single-minded determination to keep inflation pegged at 2% come Hell or High Water or 25% unemployment in the periphery of the EU such as Spain or Greece or the Baltics.

SPIEGEL: Mr. Trichet, how have you been sleeping these last few days?

Trichet: I always sleep well!

SPIEGEL: You haven't had any nightmares?

Trichet: No.

No, he's sleeping like a baby in the face of what he himself describes as "the most difficult situation since the Second World War -- perhaps even since the First World War".
SPIEGEL: Allegedly, even Asian central banks have lost confidence in the euro. And they are key players.

Trichet: A currency which keeps its value fully in line with its definition of price stability -- with annual inflation rate of less than 2 percent, close to 2 percent -- over almost 12 years is a currency which inspires confidence.

Spiegel: "I concern-troll you!"; Trichet: "Lalalala the standing ovation I'm giving myself for my successful inflation targetting doesn't let me hear you".
SPIEGEL: Thus far, the ECB has been strong and independent because it had repeatedly rejected demands from the political domain for lower interest rates or too expansionary a monetary policy. You have now consented for the first time.

Trichet: We have consented nothing to the heads of state and government. We always take our decisions taking into account only our own assessment of the situation and not the "recommendations" of governments, markets or social partners. We decided on August 9, 2007 to supply €95 billion of liquidity in a few hours because our money market was being disrupted. And I could give many such examples. As I have already said, if there has been any direction of influence, it has been more in the opposite direction, from the ECB to governments, when making recommendations to them. And, let me tell you that those who took very significant responsibilities were those not applying the spirit and the letter of the Stability and Growth Pact. And neither were those who did not carry out their surveillance as they should have, and as we constantly asked them to do.

Trichet: with steadfast determination comes power and I'm steadfast as heck!

Display:
You should've been a surgeon.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Mon May 17th, 2010 at 04:36:00 PM EST
I cut and paste like the best of'em.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon May 17th, 2010 at 04:37:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You've even double pasted some of Trichet's comments regarding the 95 Billion liquidity boost in August 2007!

Frank's Home Page and Diary Index
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon May 17th, 2010 at 06:14:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I guess I need to compensate for his omission of the €400bn liquidity injection at the end of that year.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 05:18:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The following post highlights just how insane Trichet's position (which is the orthodox position of EU policymakers from the Commission to the Member States' governments) is in itself. Quoting someone else has the advantage that I don't have to repeat myself, dammit!

Kregel/Parenteau: No Sidestepping the Eurozone Implosion? « naked capitalism

But this is about more than just testosterone counts. Some wing of the professional investing world is beginning to see the design flaws built into the eurozone from day one. And once the spy these flaws, they begin to realize the nature of the solution is something utterly different than what they are witnessing being rolled out before their very eyes. In the following 11 points, we highlight some of the key aspects of the eurozone predicament using the financial balance approach developed by the late Wynne Godley which we have explored in previous blog submissions, papers, and book chapters. Until more investors and policy makers can understand the true nature of the various predicaments facing the eurozone, and the inherent design flaws exhibited in the European Monetary Union and the (In)Stability and (Lack of) Growth Pact, odds are precious time will simply be wasted trying to make believe the shock and awe fix is already in.
I have called it the Growth and Stability (suicide) Pact, but (In)Stability and (Lack of) Growth Pact is pretty good, too.
1. Underlying the eurozone predicament is a missing adjustment mechanism. There is neither a price nor a policy mechanism that encourages the current account surplus nations to recycle their surpluses in a win/win, pro-growth fashion. Keynes tried to design such a mechanism into the Bretton Woods agreement, but the American negotiators scotched it. This same pro-growth adjustment mechanism is missing at the global level with regard to China (although they did report a trade deficit in March).
Yes, Keynes was defeated in 1944 because the US wasn't about to give up its advantage of having 50% of world's GDP, were they? Just like a new Bretton Woods now would fail because China will want a system that rewards it for being the world's exporter of last reasort. And just like Germany preaches the mathematical impossibility of a Lake Wobegon Eurozone where every country's trade balance with the rest of the Eurozone is positive!

But the most bothersome thing about the noises coming out of Germany is the moralistic undercurrent. This is all about punishment, and they're willing to destroy their own EU export markets just to exact punishment on what they perceive as less-than-Germanvirtuous behaviour. I'll deflate you into submission if it kills my export industry, dammit! You deserve to suffer! Suffering is good, and fire purifies, so says Christian(-Democrat) dogma!

2. An ostensibly moral stance advocating balanced government budgets is revealing a profound ignorance of the simple accounting of sector financial balances. Those preferring to impose a "fiscally correct" policy on the peripheral nations should best recognize these accounting realities, and soon. If we are correct that domestic income deflation will be the end result of fiscal retrenchment colliding with private sector attempts to net save, then surely more desperate citizens will turn to even more desperate acts. Rather perversely, the combined effects of fiscal retrenchment, private income deflation, and rising private debt distress are likely to make moral considerations a second or third order concern for many eurozone citizens.
There's more in the Kregel/Parenteau piece. Go read it.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon May 17th, 2010 at 04:48:15 PM EST
Just wait until Trichet collides with Osborne.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon May 17th, 2010 at 05:21:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hell, Osborne doesn't even need to state his case with the way it's shaped up.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Mon May 17th, 2010 at 05:40:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I wonder what the Germans would say and think if Greece defaulted on all it's debt (except that owed to other states)?

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid on Mon May 17th, 2010 at 06:12:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
German citizens or German banks?

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Mon May 17th, 2010 at 06:14:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Would there be a huge difference in reactions?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Mon May 17th, 2010 at 06:19:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
German banks would up the creek without a paddle, and methinks the citizens voice would depend on whether a bailout was in effect.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Mon May 17th, 2010 at 07:02:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Do citizens let Spiegel  and/or Bild tell them what to think?

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 01:50:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
They think they think what Spiegel and/or Bild tell them.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 01:58:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I have to stop listening to what die seriöse Leute say about the Euro or I'll pop an artery. I'll be waiting for reports from the ground by dvx or nane or Crazy Horse...

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 02:08:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I was thinking more along the lines of how they'd view Greece rather than the banks.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 04:15:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
German people, media and poiticians. The reactions of German banks would be quite predictable. ;)

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 03:14:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
They'd just collect a few billion from Angie.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 03:16:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Argh, what in gods name is wrong with straight-forward rigths issues?!

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 02:29:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It dilutes the equity of the aristocracy.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 02:48:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Also, we can't allow the government to get equity in exchange for handouts. That would be zoocialism!

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 02:48:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Argharghargh! <head explodes>

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 04:45:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
http://www.eurotrib.com/comments/2010/5/15/9168/33845/24#24

Give me a vaguely realistic scenario for the "end of the euro."

And since when did we all uncritically agree that "growth" was a good thing?

Shrinkage of economies is inevitable given the overhang of debt. The real question is one of how to share the pain. You argue for inflation, ie a flat tax (or default rate) on all assets and incomes. Is it the only solution?

Wind power

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 02:18:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There's no end of the Euro or end of the EU in sight. What's in sight is an end of the European social model and a lost decade. See here.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 02:23:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Can we avoid a lost decade given the debt overhang? Seriously?

Wind power
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 02:25:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What is more painful? What is more fair? A 25% reduction of income and asset values or no income, assets or benefits for the 25% less connected of the population?

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 02:27:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
we can increase taxes.

It's good for budgetary balances.

Wind power

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 02:30:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not on wages, not on mobile capital. So taxes on land values.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 02:33:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Taxes on land values are politically impossible.

But a debt/equity swap would work.

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 05:45:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
or make capital less mobile.

A tax on carbon content of imports would do wonders as well.

Wind power

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 05:48:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
make capital less mobile

Cannot do that within the Eurozone.

A tax on carbon content of imports would do wonders as well

Are you really not aware that the problem is internal Eurozone trade imbalances, not the external trade balance of the Eurozone?

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 05:56:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
people chose to vote for right wing policies and ignore the consequences by borrowing unsustainably (or, in the Germans' cases, tightening their belts, relatively speaking, and feeling smug about it).

My friends on the Oil Drum will link that to a last spurt of cheap energy 'probably in the form of the boom in Chinese coal production) which is now over.

Wind power

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 02:28:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Politics is hopeless and so is the European Union's macroeconomic stance. We're going to burn in a flash of self-righteous fiscal austerity.

Look, I don't have any debt but the consequences of waiting for default or 10 years of doldrums to reduce the debt overhand might be that I'd be out of a job soon with no prospects but emigrating to another continent. So I'm willing to endure a loss of purchasing power. After all, my income can support higher taxes, too.

Inflation is destructive of incomes and asset values, deflation is destructive of the human spirit.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 03:12:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I could live with a lost decade -or even decades- if that meant keeping most of the social model.

But to turn into Latvia so that we can show our jansenist selves that HEY, is the biggest recession in 70 years all you've got, nah we won't have more than 3% deficit for even a minute... That would be truly awful.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 02:28:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
One of ZP's stimulus measures was a 420€ monthly stipend for the long-term unemployed who were not antitled to any more benefits. Removing that is now on the table. When the measure was introduced a million people were eligible. Now it might be 2 million. And 1 million families have nobody employed.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 02:40:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I totally agree with your point-of-view about social models, and I live in a high-crime area of one of the poorest American cities. So social fabric means a lot to me.

Thinking about this in a larger context, it's implied in a global market that there will be convergence between certain sets of workers between countries, rather than convergence between, say, a blue-collar worker and an elite worker in that country.

Falling real income is already implied by the economic model. But if the elites don't keep things stable with an INCREASE in social spending, then things will devolve rapidly.

Check out this article this morning:

http://euobserver.com/19/30089

Part of the discord appears to stem from a demand from Berlin that German parliamentary approval be granted before countries can tap the support package, with German finance minister Wolfgang Schauble citing national constitutional requirements.

Mr Schauble also raised the prospect of mimicking Germany's constitutional spending brake across the eurozone. Last year, the country enshrined in its constitution a law forbidding the federal government from running a deficit of more than 0.35 percent of GDP by 2016.

Germany seems to be channeling California. Straitjackets, get your straitjackets here!

by Upstate NY on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 12:24:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Upstate NY:
Part of the discord appears to stem from a demand from Berlin that German parliamentary approval be granted before countries can tap the support package, with German finance minister Wolfgang Schauble citing national constitutional requirements.
I'm sorry but other EU member states shouldn't be subject to the German parliament.

If they want the EU Parliament to control the tapping of an EU-wide fund that's a different matter.

There is no evidence that the current German political class has any willingness to work with the rest of the EU.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 12:39:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
EUobserver / Eurozone ministers aim barbed words at Germany

Asked whether he felt these comments were helpful, Mr Juncker said: "In my opinion, certain people would do better to think before they speak ...sometimes they would do better to keep their mouths shut."

An aide to the long-serving politician later insisted to AFP that the comments were directed at Deutsche Bank chairman Josef Ackermann, German central bank head Axel Weber and ECB chief economist Juergen Stark, all of which have recently spoken out against aspects of the extraordinary measures taken to shore up the finances of Greece and the rest of the eurozone.

His frustration appears to be shared by the caretaker Belgian prime minister, Yves Leterme. "We finalised an agreement to defend the euro. We cannot, like Madame Merkel, put into question its feasibility," Mr Leterme said on Monday.



By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 12:43:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Jerome a Paris:
And since when did we all uncritically agree that "growth" was a good thing?
I don't want growth per se, I want a guaranteed living income for all, which is now in danger: for instance ZP's subsidy to the long-term unemployed whose unemployment benefits have expired might be taken away soon.

Forgiving Kregel/Parenteau their Euro-is-doomed title, there's also this

Kregel/Parenteau: No Sidestepping the Eurozone Implosion? « naked capitalism

5. Rapidly cutting fiscal deficits without considering the impact of such moves on private sector financial balances is a shortsighted, if not dangerous policy direction. Sector financial balances - the difference between saving and investment, or income and expenditures - are interconnected, and cannot be treated in isolation.

...

9. Furthermore, since the current account surplus of the eurozone has remained between +1 and -1 percent of GDP for quite some time, there is every reason to believe that attempts by the periphery to achieve trade surpluses will undermine the export led growth of Germany and the Netherlands.

...

11. Second, the export sales of German and Dutch companies will fade with the falling import demand of the periphery. As their domestic incomes fall, they will import less. In other words, the fiscal retrenchment the core nations are insisting upon is highly likely to boomerang right back on them.

Do you still think Germany is self-defeating or was that just irony on your part?

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 05:13:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I still agree that Germany's behavior is self-defeating. What I disagree with is the attempts to pin all the blame now on Germany for refusing to solve the situation on their own.

There were 3 problems: too much easy money, too many stupid creditors, and, too much self-righteous deflationist policies in Germany.

Asking only the Germans to move to save the day is stupid and unfair. The overstretched financiers and the general public need to pay too. Germany's rigid stance ensures that the public will pay. What do we do to ensure that the financiers pay too?

Wind power

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 05:35:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What do we do to ensure that the financiers pay too?

Doing old-fashioned bank interventions instead of shifting their own debt load onto the public balance (which they then scream bloody murder about) with bailouts, taking equity in exchange for recapitalizations. I've also been screaming cloody murder about that, but unfortunately the last 3 years of bailouts have been done. Inflation would hurt them disproportionately, too, both as holders of net wealth and as creditors.

Waiting for debt deflation to happen through defaults is forcing the economy into a game of chicken. Much better to inflate the debt away so everyone takes a hit.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 05:41:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
but it's too late now, isn't it?

Unless there is a major political shift. which will require a bigger crisis.
Which is basically what I've said for the past 2 years, sadly. Which is also why I've been writing so little lately (beyond the fact that I'm quite busy at work): there's little we can do but wait for the next crisis. And the longer we have deflationist policies, the more I think the only think that will make a difference is that the pain is bad enough that you have riots big enough to scare the elites.

We're still quite far from that, thankfully or unfortunately (depending on your point of view and your preference for the short/medium term and the (very) long term).

Wind power

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 05:46:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

there's little we can do but wait for the next crisis. And the longer we have deflationist policies, the more I think the only think that will make a difference is that the pain is bad enough that you have riots big enough to scare the elites.

I shudder to realize we've (once again?) entered a time where one would write a sentence like that.  Would even need to write so.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 06:23:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
'68 Revisited. Or Iran '79.

'68-type is very possible in Europe: protest, mass demos, vandalism against wealth, even casualties. But we don't have the guns for a '79. We do, however, have video-equipped phones.

I've just been checking out some concepts where any event can be cubist-recorded by pre-registering mobile phones and then providing multiple streaming feeds to a web aggregator. i.e. 'if you are watching us, we'll watch you'. SMS can be used to communicate between 'cameras' and 'directors'.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 07:29:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sven Triloqvist:
We do, however, have video-equipped phones.

but they can shut down cell towers if they dare, didn't they in burma?

i guess you can still shoot pix and use the web to disseminate.

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 08:08:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
obviously very short-range but :

perhaps we will imitate the behaviour of teenagers who run out of credit on their mobiles : take a photo of a hand-written message and send it across the room by bluetooth.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 08:17:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, they can shut down nodes if the operators agree. But most operators will bring in mobile nodes to cope with data traffic at big events. It's already done at stadia events. Getting a bigger business all the time. They are not going to shut down income flow if it hurts their business - unless forced to. And I would assume that, if this kind of aggregating video streaming takes off, then it might be well established by the time riotous events evolve into mass violence. To switch off connections at that point would be like switching off the population's electricity. T'ain't gonna happen. Or if it does it'll be the government turning out the lights before leaving for a country that'll take them.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 10:00:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And the longer we have deflationist policies, the more I think the only think that will make a difference is that the pain is bad enough that you have riots big enough to scare the elites.

I'll settle for inflation, thank you very much.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 07:01:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Jerome a Paris:
but it's too late now, isn't it?
So now that we've been had by the well-connected, let's punish the weak by imposing austerity measures?

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 07:21:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
the reality of the debt overhang ensures that someone has to pay. the only question is who, and to what extent.

The poor is the default answer right now, and it's certainly the one pushed by markets (for which people and society  are a cost and nothing else).

Germany does not ask that the cost be borne by the poor, it only asks that it be borne.

Wind power

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 07:30:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There is a perfectly fine way to ensure that it is borne by the wealthy:

It's called strategic sovereign default.

But that's not what Germany is calling for.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 07:54:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
are they excluding it?

I think the Spanish and French are more worried about what a sovereign default would mean for the cost of their own debt...

Wind power

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 08:57:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And the longer we have deflationist policies, the more I think the only think that will make a difference is that the pain is bad enough that you have riots big enough to scare the elites.

The last time that happened, Europe engaged in a quite spectacular act of human and industrial self-immolation, resulting in between one and two hundred million dead people and wiping most of our industrial capacity from the face of the planet.

Of course, it did result in a debt restructuring, because most European countries had to change, devalue or inflate their currency afterwards...

Can we please skip directly to the debt restructuring this time and bypass the part where we kill two hundred million people?

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 07:28:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No, no, fire purifies and the profligate must be punished for their sinful ways.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 07:29:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
that inflation led to WW2 and the holocaust. Understandably, if possibly wrongly,, they think nothing can be worse.

Wind power
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 07:33:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Eurozone hyperinflation is impossible: We have balanced foreign trade.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 07:56:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And we issue most of our debt in our own currency.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 08:17:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
They're wrong, but there's more of them.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 08:20:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
and the Holocaust.

What am I missing?

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 08:24:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Blame-shifting.

But we know what led to WWII and the Holocaust: the Treaty of Versailles. And the german hyperinflation was the only way to try to contain the deflationary pressure from all the mechanisms set up to suck wealth out of Germany.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 08:29:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That and the actual execution of the agreement (occupation of the Ruhr, exaction of reparations) caused inflation and the economic crisis in Germany in the early 1920's.

But the German hyper-inflation happened nearly a decade before the end of Weimar, and was over well before the rise of the Nazi party. Not so simple as that.

Anyhow, I hardly see how any people can blame a monstrosity such as the Shoah on inflation they suffered 15 years before they starting gassing their victims.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 08:34:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Migeru:
So the Weimar Republic collapsed because it would not torture. Ho hum.

Wikipedia: Paul von Hindenburg

It was Schleicher who came up with the idea of "Presidential government" based on the so-called "25/48/53 formula". "Presidential governments" were governments in which the Chancellor owed his office to the confidence solely of the President rather the Reichstag. The "25/48/53 formula" referred to the three articles of the Constitution that made "Presidential government" possible.
  • Article 25 allowed the President to dissolve the Reichstag.
  • Article 48 allowed the President to sign into law emergency bills without the consent of the Reichstag. However, the Reichstag could cancel any law passed by Article 48 by an simple majority within sixty days of its passage.
  • Article 53 allowed the President to appoint the Chancellor.
Schleicher's idea was to have Hindenburg appoint an man of Schleicher's choosing as Chancellor, have him rule via Article 48 and to have Hindenburg threaten to use Article 25 should the Reichstag vote to annul any laws passed under Article 48. Schleicher's intention was to gradually undermine democracy legally via "Presidential government" and ultimately create an authoritarian government. "Presidential governments" were legal within an strictly legalistic interpretation of the Constitution, but clearly violated its spirit. Hindenburg was not enthusiastic about these plans, but was pressured into going along with them by his son, Meissner, Groener and Schleicher.

The first attempt to establish a "presidential government" had occurred in 1926-1927, but had foundered by the unwillingness of any of the leading German politicians to go along with the scheme. During the winter of 1929-1930, Schleicher had more success.

The legalistic subversion of the constitutional system of the Weimar republic started in 1926, got well under way after 1929, and culminated in the Gleichschaltung of 1933-34. It is one of those historical ironies that Scheleicher was outmanoeuvered by von Pappen and Hitler in 1932, and assasinated during the night of long knives of 1934.

By contrast with the violent elimination of political opposition as early as 1934, the antisemitic pogrom of  Kristallnacht happened only in 1938, and the "final solution" was hammered out in 1942 at Wannsee.

All this was possible because, at each stage, ordinary Germans could convince themselves that it wouldn't get any worse.

That's a comment to the diary Torture and the Weimar Republic by DowneastDem on December 11th, 2005.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 08:42:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Anyhow, I hardly see how any people can blame a monstrosity such as the Shoah on inflation they suffered 15 years before they starting gassing their victims.

That's a very incendiary statement, not to mention false.  it's one thing to surmise that hyper-inflation was a pre-condition of WWII, quite another to think any Germans think inflation caused "gassing their victims."

I can't point to a modern society who has done more to atone for their transgressions than Germany.  (Leaving out discussing the role of most citizens in causing the holocaust.)  I walk out the door of my house and there are brass markers embedded in the sidewalks with the name of the Jews who lived there before before being carted off to the gashouse.  A reminder for repentant people?

Care to discuss unrepentant Euro-amurkan genocide?  The difference between gassing and passing out smallpox blankets?  The almost total decimation of the buffalo herd so there was nothing to eat and make life's essentials from, or your beloved Minnesotans attacks on villages not at war.

What a cheap frickin' shot, chief redstar.

I sentence you to 10 days without food, walking blindfolded through the Shoah memorial stones in Berlin.  Then you can eat for three days, before you embark on just a few retraces of the various Trail of Tears marches.

Bring me even 5% of Germans who are not unrepentant of their grandparents and great grandparents actions, and even 1% who blame inflation, and i'll simply rip up your house owning treaty and throw you onto a reserve.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 09:17:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Crazy Horse:

Anyhow, I hardly see how any people can blame a monstrosity such as the Shoah on inflation they suffered 15 years before they starting gassing their victims.

That's a very incendiary statement, not to mention false.  it's one thing to surmise that hyper-inflation was a pre-condition of WWII, quite another to think any Germans think inflation caused "gassing their victims."

I think we're getting into picking stylistic nits now...

Jerome a Paris:

Germans think that inflation led to WW2 and the holocaust.


By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 09:36:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Migs, no it's not a stylistic nit, though you are entitled to read it that way.

And i don't wish to hijack this amazing thread.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 09:47:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I was going with that, but point well taken.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill
by r------ on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 09:53:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Having to contemplate Axel "The Axe" Weber as ECB head pushes us all a bit over the edge, n'est pas?

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 10:16:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
him as part of the bailout.

Germany is definitely calling the shots.

As the Eurozone economy underperforms the rest of the world yet again (as in the first half of the '90's when the Bundesbank imposed high interest rates on the rest of us to finance ost-mark parity and re-building of the East- as well as politically corrupt and illegal funding of centrist politicians in France) we'll know, yet again, who is responsible.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 10:21:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Do we know how this was drafted?

European Tribune - Spiegel's Euro Delirium Tremens

Article 123
(ex Article 101 TEC)

  1. Overdraft facilities or any other type of credit facility with the European Central Bank or with the central banks of the Member States (hereinafter referred to as "national central banks") in favour of Union institutions, bodies, offices or agencies, central governments, regional, local or other public authorities, other bodies governed by public law, or public undertakings of Member States shall be prohibited, as shall the purchase directly from them by the European Central Bank or national central banks of debt instruments.

  2. Paragraph 1 shall not apply to publicly owned credit institutions which, in the context of the supply of reserves by central banks, shall be given the same treatment by national central banks and the European Central Bank as private credit institutions.
Was there any debate of the rule, or was it simply imposed by Germany with no debate or with some solt of ultimatum to take away their marbles?

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 10:29:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And, no one with the stones to stand them down, either.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill
by r------ on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 10:33:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Beware of single-factor explanations - they are mostly wrong. The German fascists were part of a

Any complete explanation for European fascism has to account for Mussolini, Franco, Hitler, Petain, Ford and the assorted nasty creeps that slithered out of the wreckage of the Austro-Hungarian empire. The Versailles and Trianon treaties were part of that, of course, but unlikely to be the whole story.

Which is not to say that the Versailles treaty may not have been the cause of the German hyperinflation...

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 08:41:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
... pan-European movement of similarly nasty political forces.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 08:42:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not unlike tody's EPP. In fact, made up of their grandparents and great-grandparents.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 08:52:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Couldn't happen now, of course.

Do please ignore the systematic demonisation of Muslims, please.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 09:29:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Only Balanced Accounts are Good, Moderate Accounts.

Or to channel Blair, "We Must Fight Current Account Deficits, dramatic pause, but we must also fight the causes of Current Account Deficits, dramatic pause, such as Current Account Surpluses."


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Wed May 19th, 2010 at 12:55:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This was fantastic.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Mon May 17th, 2010 at 05:35:28 PM EST
Onward to 1930.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Mon May 17th, 2010 at 05:42:09 PM EST
[Europe.Is.Doomed™ Alert]
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon May 17th, 2010 at 05:57:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The death of the European dream

While the EU's foreign admirers are on the defensive, international Eurosceptics are in the ascendancy. Charles Grant, head of the Centre for European Reform, a pro-EU think-tank, says he has been struck on his recent travels by the growing disdain for Europe in Delhi, Beijing and Washington. "We're seen as locked into permanent economic and demographic decline, and our pretensions to hard power are treated with contempt," he laments.

A few years ago Jeremy Rifkin, an American author, published a book called The European Dream, which made a great splash in Brussels. Mr Rifkin, who perhaps not coincidentally also wrote a book called The End of Work, argued that Europe was a model for the future. "While the American spirit is languishing, a new European dream is being born," he wrote. "It is a dream far better suited to the next stage in the human journey - one that promises to bring humanity to a global consciousness befitting an increasingly interconnected society."

Reading those words today, I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

All of this because the euro reduced its overvaluation by nicely losing 15% against the yuan?


Wind power

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 05:38:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Is there a realistic scenario to avert the end of the European social model?

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 05:45:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Convincing people to vote for left-wing governments would be a start...

Wind power
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 08:59:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
First left-wing parties would have to abandon the Neoclassical economics consensus.

The Counter-Enlightenment, its Economic Program - and the Classical Alternative By Michael Hudson (February 5, 2010)

The last few years have seen demoralized Social Democratic and Labour parties fall into disarray throughout the world. Retreating from the economic program that powered their takeoff a century ago, they have lost their traditional constituencies. Their golden age was an outgrowth of classical political economy from Adam Smith via John Stuart Mill to Progressive Era reformers advocating progressive taxation of land and other wealth, public infrastructure investment at subsidized prices, price regulation of monopolies, and public banking reforms to socialize the financial system.

Today, the parties of the left and even the centre have reversed the reform agenda advocated a century ago in the Progressive Era. They have endorsed a tax shift off property and finance onto labor and consumers; privatization of public infrastructure and enterprises; and deregulation of monopolies, above all that of banking and high finance. The result is an almost universal anti-government (and indeed, pro-rentier) model that leaves resource allocation and planning centralized in the hands of a financial sector that is being deregulated rather than steered along the social lines anticipated a century ago.

...

... We are having a meeting of European Social Democratic parties next May to draft a common program. We plan to reintroduce the classical economic reform of the tax system.

I have seen no discussion of this in the press, except for my own write-ups in the Financial Times. There is a case of cognitive dissidence when it comes to structural financial and fiscal reform. Most people are not aware that there really is a workable alternative, and indeed one that was viewed for a century as being the free market alternative - a market free of unearned income and "empty" pricing. The problem is that students no longer are taught that economic thinkers have spent the last seven centuries discussing better modes of taxation, banking and pricing. They came to a similar conclusion, based on the ability to distinguish between economically necessary costs and income, and unnecessary costs. The aim was to complete what was viewed as the economic program of industrial capitalism: to throw off the remaining legacy of feudalism, above all the landlord class that used to be called the idle rich, but also predatory bankers. These two classes now have joined forces to become a new aggressive power - financial speculators unnecessary for the industrial economy to operate but actually are slowing it down.

The most important plank of our entire program concerns the tax system. ...

This is going to be the plank of our reform program - reforming the reformers - against which banks and the EU will fight most viciously. But fiscal reform must be a key element in financial reform, because the two forms of reform are symbiotic. By taxing the land, we are preventing its rental value from being capitalized into bank loans. Our aim is to lead bank credit to focus on actually creating new means of production, not simply bolstering the privatized market price of unproductive, extractive privileges and property claims.



By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 09:07:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
left alternatives to the SocDem neo-liberal catimiti...

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill
by r------ on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 10:27:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Who?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 10:32:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In France, Front de Gauche. In Germany, Die Linke. In the Netherlands, the Socialist Party. just speaking of Neighbors...

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill
by r------ on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 10:34:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hudson:
I have seen no discussion of this in the press, except for my own write-ups in the Financial Times.
FT.com / UK - Eastern Europe won't pay what it can't pay (April 8 2010) [my emphasis]
Greece is just the first in a series of European debt bombs about to go off. Mortgage debts in the post-communist economies and Iceland are more explosive. Although most of these countries are not in the eurozone, their debts are largely denominated in euros. Some 87 per cent of Latvia's debts are in euros or other foreign currencies, and are owed mainly to Swedish banks, while Hungary and Romania owe euro-debts mainly to Austrian banks. These governments have been borrowing [from the European Union and the International Monetary Fund] not to finance a budget deficit, as in Greece, but to support their exchange rates and thereby prevent a private-sector default to foreign banks.
What!?
Bankers in Sweden and Austria, Germany and Britain are about to discover that extending credit to nations that cannot (or will not) pay may be their problem, not that of their debtors. No one wants to accept the fact that debts that cannot be paid, will not be. Someone must bear the cost as debts go into default or are written down, to be paid in sharply depreciated currencies, and many legal experts find debt agreements calling for repayment in euros unenforceable. Every sovereign nation has the right to legislate its own debt terms, and the coming currency re-alignments and debt write-downs will be much more than mere "haircuts".

...

Another by-product of the Great Depression in the US and Canada was to free mortgage debtors from personal liability, making it possible to recover from bankruptcy. Foreclosing banks can take possession of collateral property, but do not have any further claim on the mortgagees. This practice - grounded in common law - shows how North America has freed itself from the legacy of feudal-style creditor power and the debtors' prisons that made earlier European debt laws so harsh.

However, in most of Europe it is still the case that people remain personally liable for their mortgage debt in case of default even after foreclosure. In other words, strategic default by individuals is impossible.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 11:42:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
These governments have been borrowing [from the European Union and the International Monetary Fund] not to finance a budget deficit, as in Greece, but to support their exchange rates and thereby prevent a private-sector default to foreign banks.

What!?

Why do I fail to be surprised?

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 11:47:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Migeru:
Another by-product of the Great Depression in the US and Canada was to free mortgage debtors from personal liability, making it possible to recover from bankruptcy.
See also this thread.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 11:47:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
On Hungary in particular, see DoDo's Hungary in danger of bankruptcy? (October 10th, 2008) and this thread from 2 weeks later.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 12:04:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That would not be much better. At least in Finland the left is the strongest anti-property-tax party there is. Even the right has some flexibility on this issue.
by kjr63 on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 09:16:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Look at the Nordics.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 10:05:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Pucktvåa... ;p

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 07:16:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hide this from ATinNM! He's learning Swedish - fy sjutton!

"It is typically Scandinavian to swear with numbers." citation needed

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Wed May 19th, 2010 at 11:22:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Of course there is. Not to bang my own pots (or yes, actually), look at Sweden. Norway. Finland. Denmark. Hell, look at the Netherlands.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 07:13:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So who will turn fascist? (ie who's really less virtuous?)

And can we maybe say there is a difference between worrying about deficits after 2 years of public deficit at >10% of GDP and worrying about deficits before doing such spending?

Since we all agree that the problem is not budgetary policies, but the lack of financial regulation, and targetted taxes on the right kind of people and incomes, why are we accepting the debate on spending cuts (ie and making the link between spending cuts and "doom in Europe" legitimate)?

There is a simple answer: increased taxes.

Wind power

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 02:24:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Deficits are commensurate with GDP contraction. The 3% deficit cap is inconsistent with anything but the shallowest of recessions, and most of it is a combination of "automatic stabilizers" and lost revenue.

Trichet cannot at the same time call this the biggest crisis since WWI and call governments weak.

There's only one thing it makes sense to raise taxes on right now: land values.

Taxing labour would be asinine with unemployment at twice the usual rate. Taxing capital will just lead to capital flight in the free market we have engineered for ourselves. So you have to tax immovable assets.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 02:32:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There is a simple answer: increased taxes.

When you're in a liquidity trap, fiddling with the tax code does you very little good: The problem is that one part of the private sector - the businessmen - are neutering another part of the private sector - the engineers.

The solution to that is for the state to take a more active and explicit role in maintaining industrial production. That happens on the sovereign expenditure side of the equation, not on the tax income side.

You won't get me to say that tax hikes on the wealthy are a bad idea, but right now it's distinctly secondary to the need for the public sector to start explicitly underwriting industrial production.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 07:36:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In Finland, this is being done through the SHOKs - or centers of strategic excellence - that bring industry and research academia together with state funding to vastly improve the innovation chain. Consortiums are shared equally between the 2 sides, as is IPR benefit, and focus on a particular area. There is, for example, a Smart Grids consortium within the Energy and Environment SHOK.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 07:43:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
JakeS:
the need for the public sector to start explicitly underwriting industrial production.

yes, but _ exclusively green_ industry, otherwise we remain in the same old paradigm of more polluting car sales making for good numbers, (and no regard for'externalities', like peoples' health, at all).

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 08:02:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Colbertism is back in fashion : Sarkozy has announced a target of 25% increase in French industrial production in the next six years.

(why six? what's wrong with a "five year plan"?)

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 08:23:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
but again, given that the problem is debt overhang, it's still better if that public spending is financed by current resources (which are being unused because of the liquidity trap anyway) than by creating more debt.

As the current crisis is showing, markets are showing at least some unwillingness to finance public spending (in some places). That door being closed, you can either go the political route by printing money, or the political route by raising taxes.

Raising taxes is compatible with German neuroses.

Wind power

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 09:02:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So, according to you German neuroses are incompatible with both inflation and taxes. They don't appear to be incompatible with bailouts for the German banks or with collapse of GDP in other European countries. Why do dangerous neuroses have to be countenanced?

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 09:12:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
the bank bailouts were presented as absolutely indispensable to avoid immediate apocalypse, and the costs were never made clear (remember how much emphasis there was on how these would be "interest carrying loans" and the like) - and they are still massively hated by the populace.

Here, the stabilization fund has similarly come at a time when it was the supposed alternative to some kind of collapse, but it's been sold as a sign of duty (to the European ideal) rather than a vital interest, and the (much more certain) profitability of the loans has been underplayed.

And note that in the two cases, the interests of the financial world are radically opposite - in the case of the bank bailout, the markets had no interest to continue to cause unrest; here there is the obvious benefit of cost cutting across the board, lower wages, pensions etc, and the added bonus of bringing down to size the European social model.

Collapsing GDP in one country is unlikely to touch the citizens of another that much, unfortunately.

Wind power

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 09:59:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Poorly, stupidly and corruptly done, which seems to be the current fashion, this would result in products which are not purchased, squandering resources and capital, which would lead to inflation, but it would provide employment.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 09:14:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, there are no moron-proof ways to deal with an economic slump. More generally, there are no moron-proof systems, full stop. And even if there were, the universe is in the business of developing ever better morons. The same is true for cronyism, of course.

Poorly, stupidly and corruptly done, any government action will be a disaster.

The reason many of the classical liberals of the Enlightenment opposed government intervention to the extent that they did was that poor, corrupt and stupid governments were the historical norm.

Honesty, integrity and competence in your legislature: Accept no substitute.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 11:29:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Moronic seems to be the actual mean, and we all know that we always have reversion to the mean. History explained.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 11:53:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Honesty, integrity and competence in your legislature: Accept no substitute.

When you have a choice of a candidate that is honest, competent and competent things are easy. Things are seldom easy. Gresham's Law has been at work too long.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 07:22:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Greece today will not be America tomorrow - The Irish Times - Mon, May 17, 2010

The real goal of US conservatives in hyping the Greek crisis is to dismantle the American social security system, writes PAUL KRUGMAN 

IT'S AN ill wind that blows nobody good, and the crisis in Greece is making some people - people who opposed US healthcare reform and are itching for an excuse to dismantle social security - very, very happy. Everywhere you look there are editorials and commentaries, some posing as objective reporting, asserting that Greece today will be America tomorrow unless we abandon all that nonsense about taking care of those in need.

The truth, however, is that America isn't Greece - and, in any case, the message from Greece isn't what these people would have you believe.



Frank's Home Page and Diary Index
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon May 17th, 2010 at 06:47:47 PM EST
the argument that this is, in the US, about trying to implement transfers from the poor to the rich, is just as true in Greece.

But no Krugman also thinks the Americans actually ARE more virtuous than the Greeks.

Wind power

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 02:13:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's not how I read him.
His main point is that Greece is constrained by the Euro, which is itself constrained by Germany insisting on an impossible world.

I don't read virtue assumptions in his arguments. Just optimal currency areas.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 02:17:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't read virtue assumptions in his arguments. Just optimal currency areas.

Is there a difference?

Wind power

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 02:19:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh come on Jérôme, of course there is.

It's not optimal as in being the best you can be, but being best suited as an area.
If it had anything to do with virtue, you'd have to conclude that Zimbabwe is more virtuous than the Eurozone, and in fact probably more virtuous than the US. Because it quite clearly is well suited as an area of its own.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 02:23:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Except that Zimbabwe was originally a colonial construct enforcing union on two main ethnic groups which had little to do with each other and who have been engaging in a power struggle ever since in an attempt to gain/retain primacy in a union that should never have been there in the first place...

Frank's Home Page and Diary Index
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 06:39:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
While we're on the topic of Zimbabwe and other scary bedtime stories for German children...

BruceMcF:

Also note that the [Weimar] Republic ...)

... was not "the [Weimar] Republic" of Faith-Based Monetary Theory either.

The hyperinflation of the [Weimar] Republic followed, as Keynes in part predicted in "The Economic Consequences of the Peace", from the collapse of the economies in Germany's former major export trade zone, combined with an increased structural dependency on imports with the French occupation of the Rhineland industries.

Combine that balance of payments position with a demand that the [Weimar] Republic hand over regular reparations payment, and it is quite like a badly governed African nation that has to pay the debts to the World Bank and other transnational corporations incurred with no expectation by the lending agencies that the result of the projects funded would be sufficient foreign exchange earnings to pay off the loans.



By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 07:17:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
One thing I find hard to reconcile, though, is the point about UK being able to borrow more cheaply because it has a path to recovery through devaluation.

Should that not lead to higher interest rates because the loans are likely to be paid back with a devalued currency?

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 02:20:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
that this whole debate is completely artificial and ideological?

English-speaking debt = good
Yurpean-speaking debt = bad

Wind power

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 02:26:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, I do think that there is a lot of that going on. I have long felt so.

I don't think that Krugman can be accused of that though. But he may have failed to carry the argument to its logical conclusion: if the clear path to recovery is through devaluation, it should increase interest rates and therefore there must be another factor in the data.

Now, for the record:
-I have long been against the high peacetime debt and deficits in any country, English-speaking or otherwise. I reckon that sustainability should be a major target of any policy.

-Also, debt (or deficit) as a % of GDP is a silly metric, since it takes no account of the assets part (plus GDP is a poor metric). When the French Government sold France Télécom shares, which gave 7.5% in dividends, to pay back some debt with a 3.5% interest rates, I screamed.

-I reckon that right now is akin to wartime in economic terms, and that indeed it is not the right moment to worry about deficits. Especially not those who kept saying that they didn't matter when they would have been comparatively easy to reduce.

-That being said, the situation is made a lot worse by the many years of deficits when we should have had a surplus. Since we certainly shouldn't cut spending we should raise taxes.

-Before I am accused of being Hooverian, I'd like to point out that there can be a lot of tax increases that will have zero effect on consumption. Taxation has become at best flat, and sometimes regressive at the top even before taking VAT into account. Taxes (even small ones) on financial transactions would similarly have no effect. Taxing externalities would actually improve things.

-There is (was? the longer we wait the less efficient it will be) a wonderful oppportunity for increased state spending that would actually be a money saver in the medium run: all investments that will cut down costs later, particularly energy costs. Plus a lot of that would have meant work for the depressed construction sector, therefore having a very high multiplier effect.

Then, having done that, I would seriously try to reduce debt when growth returns, but not by selling assets. Rather, by taxing fairly (why on earth should inheritance not be taxed a LOT? Why should capital revenue be exempt? And if corporations want to have moral person rights, they should be taxed based on their revenue, not profits), and in particular by taxing externalities. I think that huge inequalities ARE an externality, hence...

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 02:43:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
why on earth should inheritance not be taxed a LOT?

Because that's how the class of natural masters of the universe propagates down bloodlines.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 03:11:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Even the little people object to inheritance taxes, unfortunately, and 'unearned income' or 'redistribution' arguments have no effect whatsoever.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 03:14:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Do they? Which little people?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 03:25:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
People around me.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 04:02:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The same little people who "have lost the distinction between inefficient and efficient taxes" and react negatively to inheritance taxes, real estate taxes, and so on.
Yet I have heard no public discussion here of holding down real estate prices and mortgage debt by increasing the land tax. Politicians avoid this because taxpayers react negatively to any kind of a tax rise. The distinction between economically inefficient and inefficient taxes has been lost from public discussion. A revenue neutral tax shift - lowering sales taxes and income taxes on wages by the amount that property taxes are raised - would not take in any more tax revenue than now. But it would levy taxes in a way that holds down property prices. A positive financial effect would be to leave less revenue available for banks to capitalize into interest charges. Holding down housing and real estate prices - and debt - would lower the cost of living and doing business. This would make the economy lower cost. That should be the aim of every economy - to minimize the cost of living and doing business.
(The Counter-Enlightenment, its Economic Program - and the Classical Alternative By Michael Hudson on February 5, 2010)

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 04:50:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Related discussion in a recent Salon started by ARGeezer:
Michael Hudson's Talk at Customs House in Australia

Courtesy of Steve Keen and other via his blog DebtWatch.



By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 04:54:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
My wife, who is usually reliably progressive, recoiled from my suggestion that we institute a temporary tax on wealth over a few million $US, as the wealthy had most of the discretionary wealth and were not using it in socially beneficial ways. Thirty plus years of successful application of RW propaganda. Thus are we recruited to be the instruments of our own oppression.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 09:25:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Krugman has a limited space to sort out the implications of everything he says.

He surely counsels bigger deficits and more spending, which he believes will NOT have inflationary effects.

He is still much more worried about deflation.

So, I don't think the criticism about varied ways of addressing the debt problem applies to Krugman.

Krugman firmly believes that we can GROW.

by Upstate NY on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 12:46:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Depends on who you read. For instance, Willem Buiter's How likely is a sterling crisis or: is London really Reykjavik-on-Thames? (November 13, 2008)

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 02:50:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Or: Another quarter of negative GDP growth in the UK: situation hopeless but not serious (October 24, 2009).

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 03:06:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
re purely domestic arguments pushing towards less social spending. They never turn into a "the US/UK is doomed" stuff.

Wind power
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 05:39:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
ahem

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 06:05:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Jérôme, you must have missed the following coming from Germany

European Tribune - Spiegel's Euro Delirium Tremens

this is all the fault of the evil French and their love for soft money (after all, they did devalue the Franc once)
Still, the price for this bailout is high -- possibly too high. The events on that dramatic weekend in Brussels marked the birth of a gigantic European transfer union, where previously unthinkable sums of money are made available to rescue southern euro-zone members. But over and above that, a number of determined politicians under the leadership of French President Nicolas Sarkozy have managed to undermine the independence of the European Central Bank (ECB).

Ever since the launch of the euro over 11 years ago, the French have been annoyed that the common currency generally adheres to German principles. While the French central bank is traditionally viewed as an executive organ of government growth and employment policies, the European Central Bank is politically independent and exclusively committed to the goal of achieving price stability, just like the Bundesbank in postwar West Germany.

Over the past few years, Paris has repeatedly tried to bring the European monetary authority to heel. French government representatives complained at times about interest rates that they felt were too high. At other times, they called for a devaluation of the euro to boost their own exports. Their requests were never granted. Until recently, the ECB enjoyed a reputation for combating inflation even more resolutely than the legendary guardians of the German mark.

All of that has changed since last week. Under the mounting pressure of waves of speculation against the euro, German Chancellor Angela Merkel has allowed herself to be talked into a bailout package that is nothing less than a general overhaul of the monetary union according to the agenda set by the French. In addition to letting the European Commission use the central bank to achieve its own aims, the Germans have accepted the fact that several monetary policy principles are being cast by the wayside. The central bankers are making their printing presses available to finance government loans. They have accepted that European countries are liable for the debts of individual states. They are putting more money in circulation, even though there is already so much liquidity on the markets that a number of experts anticipate that this will soon trigger a rise in inflation.

Never mind that Trichet debunked this nonsense two days earlier (but he's French, what he says can't be trusted)


By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 06:03:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Market sentiment = prejudice, but why are the "markets" so anglo-centric in a world where EU GDP more or less = US?

Frank's Home Page and Diary Index
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 06:42:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
  1. finance is the main industry of London and NY
  2. finance is the easiest way to make a small fortune, and to make a small fortune a big one (thanks to leverage and the magic of compound interest on capital);
  3. inequality (sold as "freedom") accelerates the process


Wind power
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 07:24:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
One thing I find hard to reconcile, though, is the point about UK being able to borrow more cheaply because it has a path to recovery through devaluation.

Should that not lead to higher interest rates because the loans are likely to be paid back with a devalued currency?

Not necessarily. A 95 % chance of being repaid in a currency that has devalued by 15 % still commands a lower risk premium than a 75 % chance of being repaid in a currency that maintains its value.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 07:50:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Which assumes that the financial markets work as advertised. The reason may also be that euro countries really have to find buyers for their debt whereas the UK could just have the BoE take a hand.
by generic on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 08:29:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Of course.

And it also assumes that the international financial markets don't behave like bipolar crack monkeys. An assumption that appears equally unfounded.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 08:33:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"A 95 % chance of being repaid in a currency that has devalued by 15 % still commands a lower risk premium than a 75 % chance of being repaid in a currency that maintains its value."

I know that, but the interest rate for the UK is not just lower than Greece's, it's simply not particularly high. Too low to be explained by the fact that it is more likely to recover thanks to devaluation.

And if it's something else (like the BoE buying), the lowish interest rates cannot be used as a proof that the possibility of devaluation saves the day.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 01:00:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What makes the US closer to optimal is not a more homogeneous economy but greater fiscal transfers with the bulk of the revenue and budget at the federal level rather than at the state level.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 02:42:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Transfers within Europe are already at the limit of what is deemed absorbable (3-4% of GDP per year), so is that really true?

Wind power
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 05:32:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Jerome a Paris:
Transfers within Europe are already at the limit of what is deemed absorbable (3-4% of GDP per year)
How can that be when the EU budget is 1% of GDP and the cohesion funds have to come out of that budget?

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 05:42:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
because the budget is 1% of the overall GDP, whereas transfers are capped at 3-4% of the GDP of the recipient country.

Wind power
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 05:47:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe this would be the time to create a pan-UE unemployment benefit.

Unemployment benefit is easier to organize, because there is no question of transfering money to future times. It could take the form of a small VAT increase in all Europe, that would be redistributed as a very small benefit, calcutlated to not distort the wage repartition in the poorest country.

Say for example that the eurozone country with the lowest minimum income is Greece. This benefit would be calculated to be only a fraction of this minimum.

But, it would add up with the other benefits available in the country, and so increase slightly the income of unemployed troughout the continent. Globally, this would have a (small) expansionnary effect, and in effect would bind all countries together.

No argument of "never bail out the greek" would work, because unemployed in ALL countries would get the same benefit, including rich Germany. Obviously, it would relatively be more important for countries with a lower income.

Would this work? Anyway, that would be building Europe.

by Xavier in Paris on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 11:55:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A very rough calculation gives:

PIB UE 25:    18 285    milliards $

VAT 0,50%:    91,425    milliards $

Unemployed:    0,0191    billions people UE27
    4786 $ per unemployed per year
     398  $ per unemployed per month

Data is from Eurostat and IMF through wikipedia and mixes happily data for UE25, UE27 and 2007/2008. Nevertheless, for a rough calculation I think It's OK.
Of course the system would have to be limited to eurozone countries to keep within the "optimal currency area".

by Xavier in Paris on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 12:07:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'll add that 400$/month is much more than the "low additionnal income" I had in mind.

I was more on something about 100/200€ per month, much lower than minimum wages or minimum income in any country, this being something additionnal to national benefits.

by Xavier in Paris on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 12:13:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Xavier in Paris:
398  $ per unemployed per month
As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, Spain instituted an emergency €420/mo payment to the long-term unemployed who had exhausted their unemployment benefits. The minimum wage for 2010 is €633/mo (usually 13 times a year). this page has 2008 minimum wage data from Eurostat
   País        SMI mes 
------------  ---------
Luxemburgo    1.610 €
Irlanda       1.462 €
Holanda       1.357 €
Bélgica       1.336 €
Francia       1.321 €
Gran Bretaña  1.148 €
Grecia		681 €
España		600 €
Portugal	497 €
Polonia 	334 €
Rumanía 	137 €
Bulgaria	112 €


By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 12:14:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
To Mig: the idea is not to replace the spanish, german or french or whatever existing benefits but to ADD a European low benefit on top of it, that would be financed by a small global VAT increase and paid to any unemployed in any country within the Eurozone.

I'm so bad  at english I don't know if I conveyed the idea properly.

by Xavier in Paris on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 12:17:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was just contributing some data for scale, you made your point clearly enough, but "the minimum wage in any country" was vague...

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 12:19:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks for the data. ;-)

I'll add another argument. It is usually assumed that organizations tend to defend their existence once created. At the moment, we have a set of european institutions that are defending themselves quite well: European Commission, European Parliament, European Council... Nearly all of them are of an economically conservative culture.

If such a system would be created, this means that some European "social" administration would be created and then defend itself, but which culture would be representative of traditionnal European social state rather than of anglo-economics. This would participate in a useful balance of power at the top.

by Xavier in Paris on Wed May 19th, 2010 at 04:48:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It has long been a question in the back of my mind as to whether central bankers, secretaries of treasury, their counterparts in the G20 and mainstream economists everywhere really believe the nonsense they have been espousing or if they are spouting nonsense because it serves their own interest and would cease to do so should it become obvious that they were cutting their own throats. The frightening answer seems to be that they really believe this crap. The policies they are insisting on will, if unaltered, lead directly to a debt-deflation cycle as described by Irving Fisher, accompanied by cascading defaults egged on by suicidal financial sector players.

Fisher developed The Debt Deflation Theory of Great Depressions and Keynes wrote The General Theory after the 1929 crash. And, of course, the FDIC, the SEC, and Glass-Steagle came after the '29 crash, under FDR. In the last 30 years we have managed not only to repeal Glass-Steagle and neuter financial oversight through appointment of regulators who do not believe in regulating, but we have also successfully un-learned and actively repressed the insights of Keynes. Spend enough money promulgating self-serving nonsense and it becomes the new reality. Unfortunately that does not mean that it will work.

How deep will be our degradation? How many billions of people will have to die? To what extent will the carrying capacity of the planet have to be impaired? Will even any of this matter? Will astro-turfed "popular" movements even more inane and manevolent than the Tea Baggers arise, movements that will insist on actions that only worsen the situation? The super rich will find themselves the Oligarchy of Hell, and will consider that they have done well. If they bring about a climate apocalypse or a nuclear winter, it could not happen to a more deserving bunch of sociopathic assholes. But it is a pity for the remaining 99.99% of the world's population. Being struck by a 100km diameter asteroid impacting perpendicularly might be a mercy.

Norman O. Brown was right. Our situation really is Life Against Death and death seems everywhere triumphant. But not totally, not finally, not yet. So on we go further into the madness, trying to shine a small bit of sanity, as best we see it.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon May 17th, 2010 at 11:16:52 PM EST
Norman O. Brown! Nobby to friends. I can't believe he's been mentioned here.

Anyhow, given the tenor of "advice" given in opinion pieces over the economic crisis, it seems evident that "economists" are writing poisoned letters, as old rivalries burble up to the surface.

Krugman comes off as a Eurozone hater, until you realize his distaste for neoliberal deficit hawks presiding over European economies. If one of Krugman's pals was in charge, the EU would be the greatest thing ever!

by Upstate NY on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 12:51:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 01:58:29 AM EST
Trichet: ... In France, I have occasionally been called the "Ayatollah of the Franc-fort" ...

SPIEGEL: ... which has two meanings: Frankfurt and a strong euro ...

Trichet: ... because I advocate a strong currency policy. Inflation is destructive for societies and democracy. Inflation is a tax on the poor and the weak. That is my very firm conviction.

Is deflation not destructive of societies and democracy, too, and far more quickly once it sets in?

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 02:37:40 AM EST
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 05:42:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
*Trichet: ... facts are facts: Inflation in Germany has never been as low as it has been over the past 11 years.
And yes, we do.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 05:46:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
low inflation is not deflation.

Wind power
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 05:47:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It is for the peripheral economies.

There is a tradeoff inherent in a currency union: You reduce your ForEx risk, but you have to accept a higher inflation target, because you encompass a larger area with more variation in price level and in price changes. A higher baseline inflation both reduces the distortion inherent in these differences, and allows countries to temporarily pursue low inflation as a way to get out-of-line price levels back in line with the majority.

Greater economic and political integration can make the inflation cost of a currency union smaller, but it probably can't make it go away entirely.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 07:47:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think inflation is related to the volatility of cash flows (in a fluctuation-dissipation kind of way). This would mean the larger the currency area the higher the inflation.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 08:20:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
>Greater economic and political integration can make the inflation cost of a currency union smaller, but it probably can't make it go away entirely.

A currency union governed as is the current practice within the euro-zone is likely to impose a debt-deflation spiral cost that could make everything go away. The only countries that have any recent experience of real deflation are those that have been the beneficiaries of the IMF's policies following IMF largess, now imitated inside the euro-zone for Greece, Ireland and Latvia. Given political realities, a debt-deflation spiral may be the only way the massive bad debt now mingled into the financial system will be written down.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 09:38:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Pain, pain!

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 09:46:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
so the risk of it being allowed in Eurozoneland are pretty minimal. The Spiegel (how do you say "deforming mirror" in German?) is doing its job as guard-dog for the aforementioned masters. Sadly, the victim (Trichet) being roughed up is not a burglar, but a tradesman intent on delivering the  goods for the owners.

Inflation, according to the official doctrine, was a horrible scourge which we suffered terribly from in the 60s and 70s... remember that? I don't. I remember a golden era where wages were largely indexed on prices, and mortgages paid for themselves.

In those days, the ambitious and greedy were intent on creating wealth, whereas these days they are focused on being wealthy... no creation required.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 05:53:31 AM EST
eurogreen:
In those days, the ambitious and greedy were intent on creating wealth, whereas these days they are focused on being wealthy... no creation required.
Wealth capture is not wealth creation, as Jérôme used to say when the problem was not looming inflation.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 05:58:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But Jérôme himself also has quite an issue with the problem of inflation, hewing largely to the German line.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill
by r------ on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 06:39:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's why I quoted Trichet at the top level when he says inflation hurts the poor and the working class - that's always been Jérôme's argument.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 07:00:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
a little bit of inflation (say 3-7% per year) is good for the poor and bad for the rich; more is the opposite. Sadly the moderate inflation f the 60s turned into more (and stagflation) in the 70s, and the elites used that to go for no inflation...

Wind power
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 07:18:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
has an explicit target of 2% inflation and no other explicit remit. No one is accepting this 3-7% target anywhere "serious" Brussels-consensus types congregate, and ECB monetary policy reflects that anti-growth (well, anti-growth with exception of German export growth) consensus.

In exchange for this, we were imposed, largely by the Germans, the Growth and Stability pact (the growth part being a joke and the stability only for the Germans, apparently), a monstrostity rightly refered to, by the economist and former President of the European Commission, as the Growth and Stupidity Pact.

I also note that France's inflation rate has been under the 2% level, if not on a year to year basis then on a consistent (and certainly rolling multi-year average) basis since Euro convergence criteria were established when Mitterand was President at the start of the 1990's and that, since then, France's economic growth has been sclerotic for most of the period. Contrast with economic growth in prior periods (1950-1980) when inflation was in the zone you are talking about (even in the 1970's on average France's inflation was under 10%) and an independent central bank was able to use inflation, along with fiscal policy, to manage the economic cycle.

Now, it is German exporters who manage France's business cycle, and not just France's, but also Italy's, Spain's, Greece's. And, they think they are the virtuous ones.

In fact, sclerotic growth in France (and, I would strongly suggest, in most of the Eurozone) goes hand in hand with over-eager German-inspired monetary policy bordering on psychosis. Unfortunately, as the article Mig discusses from Der Spiegel demonstrates, the Germans appear to be in a delusionary world fraught with inflation monsters behind every corner...unfortunately, this joke they are telling themselves is on us, not on them.

We'd all be better off if, instead of Greece reverting to the Drachma, Germany reverted to the Mark.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 08:16:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
redstar:
Noting, in passing, that the ECB has an explicit target of 2% inflation and no other explicit remit. No one is accepting this 3-7% target anywhere "serious" Brussels-consensus types congregate, and ECB monetary policy reflects that anti-growth (well, anti-growth with exception of German export growth) consensus.
Note that the ECB's explicit remit is one of "price stability", and that the 2% was pulled out of thin air by the ECB governing council, under their sole authority, and they could just as well change it.

ECB: Definition of price stability

Quantitative definition While the Treaty clearly establishes the primary objective of the ECB, it does not give a precise definition of what is meant by price stability.

The ECB's Governing Council has announced a quantitative definition of price stability:
  • "Price stability is defined as a year-on-year increase in the Harmonised Index of Consumer Prices (HICP) for the euro area of below 2%."
The Governing Council has also clarified that, in the pursuit of price stability, it aims to maintain inflation rates below, but close to, 2% over the medium term.

Also look at the Educational section of the ECB's website: Inflation and the euro

Have you seen the inflation monster?
Watch our cartoon on price stability



By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 08:50:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
redstar:
In fact, sclerotic growth in France (and, I would strongly suggest, in most of the Eurozone) goes hand in hand with over-eager German-inspired monetary policy bordering on psychosis.
And in Germany, too, right?

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 08:55:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Can we have 7% inflation for 5 years, then?

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 08:17:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Of course, that's why it won't be done.

It's not even protecting the intelligent wealthy, who know how to capitalize on opportunities economic growth tends to afford and know how to mitigate inflation-related risks.

This draconian monetary policy protects only old money, lazy old money.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 08:21:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
a little bit of inflation (say 3-7% per year) is good for the poor and bad for the rich; more is the opposite.

Funny, 8 % per year is the ballpark figure I came up with for a manageable €-zone inflation baseline.

Of course, that's all long-term. Short-term, the solution is still a Greek sovereign default.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 08:20:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's good to see Jérôme safely back among the ranks of the unserious.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 08:34:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
:)

I don't deny the German neuroses; I just don't think they're the thing we should focus on today: they are a convenient scapegoat for other problems.

Wind power

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 09:05:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
They control the EU macroeconomic policy apparatus.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 09:08:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Again, the only thing they want is budget balance. It's the neolibs who say this can only be achieved by spending cuts.

Wind power
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 10:01:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We're not pillorying them for the insistence on cycle-average budget balance.

We're pillorying them for their inflation target, and for their insistence on year-on-year budget balance.

Oh, and for the flippin' hypocrisy in demanding year-on-year budget balance from brown people who speak funny while running cycle-averaged deficits themselves...

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 11:20:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Inflation is not a tax on wealth, as capital assets automatically appreciate to compensate for inflation. Wages and pensions don't. Hence, inflation is a tax on the poor and middle class.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 08:08:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Inflation is a tax on net assets, and debt assets don't appreciate with inflation. Not only inflation reduces the real value of the notional but the higher interest rates associated with inflation discount the payments to a smaller present value.

Which is why inflation indexing of debt (as in Iceland and some parts of Latin America) is asinine.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed May 19th, 2010 at 02:19:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's true: inflation promotes people who put themselves heavily in debt at the expense of people who are more prudent. Another good reason to fight inflation.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid on Wed May 19th, 2010 at 08:17:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, it prevents debt from being so much of a problem in the first place.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed May 19th, 2010 at 08:55:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I much prefer default to inflation.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid on Wed May 19th, 2010 at 08:58:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As law and custom are currently configured, default requires deliberate political action. Inflation is an automatic stabiliser.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed May 19th, 2010 at 09:03:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
kick the Germans out of it.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill
by r------ on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 06:38:11 AM EST
Were France, the PIIGS and other euro-zone members to insist, they could force a change in monetary policy towards higher inflation and Germany could then choose either to accept this or leave the euro-zone.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 09:53:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Op-Ed Contributor - The Euro's Lost Promise - NYTimes.com
THE dream of monetary union across Europe has turned into a nightmare. Led by France and Germany, European countries have decided to spend colossal sums of taxpayers' money they cannot afford to heal mounting internal disparities they cannot conceal to shore up an edifice many believe cannot stand. On Monday, that skepticism briefly pulled the value of the euro down to a four-year low against the dollar.

A German revolt against the attenuated independence of the European Central Bank appears likely, and could jeopardize parliamentary approval for the rescue package. The Germans feel mistreated by a monetary system that makes them pay for others' largely self-inflicted misfortunes.

And the trouble is far from over. The austerity programs for errant southern states ordained by European governments and the International Monetary Fund are likely to lead to severe unemployment and civil unrest. Some southern euro members may choose to return to their former currencies -- or they may be asked to do so by other states.

An overarching structure for political control over the euro is now being erected. But it is likely to be resisted by Germany, the main paymaster, which rejects any idea that German strength is a root cause of recent disequilibrium.

Not for the first time in European history, differing perceptions of German power contain the seeds of much potential unrest. Monetary union was once the bright hope for laying to rest Germany's demonic ability to unhinge Europe. Now it appears to be doing just the opposite.

[Europe.Is.Doomed™ Alert]


We all bleed the same color.

by budr on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 09:44:57 AM EST
So much talk about inflation and not a single objective figure on money supply. The statistics are public did you know?

On other news, gold and silver bullion is disappearing in the German market.

luis_de_sousa@mastodon.social

by Luis de Sousa (luis[dot]de[dot]sousa[at]protonmail[dot]ch) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 12:25:16 PM EST
The Hollow Euro: Specter of Inflation Haunts Europe - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

Gold Endures

Pro Aurum's clients are taking refuge in a form of currency that people have trusted through the ages. The Reich mark, the East German mark, the German mark, the euro: Paper currencies may come and go, but gold endures. Or so they tell themselves, studiously ignoring the fact that the value of gold can also fluctuate enormously.

The precious metal has never been so coveted. Within a year, the price has soared by one-third, and over the past few weeks it has climbed from one record to the next. The price of gold hit a new high in euros on Monday, trading at over €1,000 a troy ounce. Meanwhile the euro also fell to a new four-year low against the dollar, slumping to around $1.23.

The price of gold is an indicator of people's lack of trust in their currency. And these doubts about the stability of the euro increases virtually every day -- despite, or perhaps precisely because of, the recent spectacular bailout of the European common currency system.

The €750 billion ($950 billion) rescue package has calmed financial markets, at least for the time being. Stock markets have recovered and risk premiums on government bonds from the southern euro states have declined.



By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 18th, 2010 at 12:37:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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