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The Logic of Austerity?

by Titus Sun Jun 27th, 2010 at 05:04:12 AM EST

With the European drive towards austerity gaining momentum, Krugman and many others are writing the Continent off as heading towards a lost decade (or worse) and of imperilling the world economy. That may be true. However, I believe austerity may work.

I should note, however, is that while austerity may work, there is no guarantee it will. I do not assume that our esteemed leaders know why it might work - quite the contrary, as a matter of fact. And if austerity does work, it certainly won't work for the stated reasons. In fact, if it does work it'll do so on purely keynesian principles, as an accidental result of our leaders' bumbling. And even if it works the periphery has little to look forward to.

front-paged by afew


1. Europe and the World

With employment less than full ... all the debunked mercantilistic arguments [about job-stealing] turn out to be valid. - Paul Samuelson (Quote courtesy of Krugman's blog)

From the point of view of the world economy, European austerity is pure madness. The world economy is depressed: It is operating at less than full employment due to a failure of demand. In this regard, governmental austerity, which further lowers demand, is insane, since it only worsens the slump, and leads to a reduction in tax revenue. The same would be true in a completely closed economy.

However, let us assume we aren't concerned about the global economy. Let's assume instead that as long as our (European/national) economy is doing well, the world economy can go hang itself for all we care.

In this case, the logic of austerity changes. Yes, austerity does further depress the world economy. However, the picture for the economy that practises austerity is different. As Krugman noted:

We do have a framework for thinking about this issue: the Mundell-Fleming model. And according to that model (does anyone still learn this stuff?), fiscal contraction in one country under floating exchange rates is in fact contractionary for the world as a whole. The reason is that fiscal contraction leads to lower interest rates, which leads to currency depreciation, which improves the trade balance of the contracting country -- partly offsetting the fiscal contraction, but also imposing a contraction on the rest of the world. (Rudi Dornbusch's 1976 Brookings Paper went through all this.)

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/09/the-global-transmission-of-european-austerity/

Essentially, as Krugman implies elsewhere (if I've got it correctly), this is a free-rider issue: An austere state gains the full benefit of the savings but exports part of the cost. This, of course, presents a nasty dilemma to the rest of the world, since to dig their own and the world economy out of the hole they have to increase deficit spending more than they would without the free-rider issue. So, the austere state can benefit from others' efforts to revive the economy.

Of course, Krugman is also right in wondering where the demand is going to come from. A charitable interpretation of European austerity would be that the global recession is lopsided: While the developed world is in a recession, the developing world largely is not (even though it was necessary for it to inroduce stimulus programmes of its own). For example, the Indian economy grew by 9.4% in 2007, by 7.3% in 2008, and still managed to grow by 5.4% in 2009. For 2010, the projected growth rate (in part because of a $100 billion stimulus package) is 7.2% (source: http://www.economywatch.com/indianeconomy/indian-economy-overview.html).

China, on the other hand, engages in a beggar-thy neighbour strategy, but could still be a good source of demand, particularly if it's pressured, as the US is doing, to unpeg the renminbi. Even if it doesn't, the euro's fall against the dollar should make European exports more competitive.

Thus, one could argue that the euro's fall in value because of austerity will make European products, especially advanced ones, more competitive and that demand from developing world could help Europe recover even as it deepens the global slump, because developing countries need advanced goods (read: German machinery).

However, as it is, both China and Europe are currently counting on massive US deficit spending. Krugman said, as per the WSJ:

Krugman also told Handelsblatt he wouldn't rule out sanctions against Germany if it continued to rely on its export-driven model. "If the euro falls to parity with the dollar, the Europeans are going to be surprised by the demands that will come out of the U.S. Congress, and I would support that," he said.

Well, I would like to see that. I really would. The Republican superminority is clamouring for austerity and thinks free trade is the solution to all woes. A large chunk of the Democratic Party also favours reducing the deficit. And now, suddenly, all these luminaries who, together with conservative economists have been advocating austerity, are going to vote in sanctions against the EU because it practises what they preach? After months of pro-austerity propaganda? If you can sell that to the general public at this point, you can sell them anything. If the US is going to pressure a free-rider, I believe it's going to be China, because (i) it's easier to condemn currency manipulation than austerity, and (ii) an authoritarian Asian regime makes for a better Other to blame than European democracies.

On the other hand, I very much doubt the United States is going to try to reduce its deficit. Elections are coming up, and voters are worried about the economy. That means that politicians have to deliver. Or at least throw voters a bone or two. Ideally, cooler heads will prevail and the US will pass another stimulus package, either now or after the November elections, if the Democrats (the reasonably sane party) win.

Besides, with the Bush tax cuts reducing revenue, you probably can't cut the US deficit without (i) getting out of Afghanistan (not going to happen), (ii) cutting Social Security or Medicare and Medicaid (political suicide) or (iii) raising taxes (remote possibility, especially in a recession). And the US has no reason to. Interest rates are at historic lows, which make it attractive to borrow and spend the money on stimulus, even with free-riders.

2. Centre and Periphery

I said that, under these conditions, austerity might help the European economy recover.

That's not quite true.

Remember, the PIIGS (or, more generally, the European periphery) are in a bad way because of capital imbalances, which, in the absence of their own currencies with a floating exchange rate (see Latvia's refusal to devalue which has resulted in a true depression, amid praise from the EU, and Latvia is being proffered as an example to emulate!) created an upward pressure on prices and wages, making them uncompetitive against the European north, notably Germany.

Austerity, even if it works, will not solve that problem. At worst, the cycle will repeat itself. At best, banks will use the capital influx to repair their balance sheets, with peripheral governments being kept on life support through years of deflation with European "aid" (loans, really). So, we on the periphery (I'm Slovene) have little to look forward to, even if by some miracle this works.

But I think we cannot really look forward to a better policy. It seems the North - and Germany in particular - realises that the EU is in essence France and Germany. The European project wanted to intertwine their economies so closely that war between them would become impossible. France and Germany are the centre of the EU. We others are all expendable. If Slovenia leaves the eurozone or even the EU, no one will notice. If Greece and Portugal leave, no one will care. Even if Spain or Britain leaves, the EU will survive. If France or Germany leaves, it is dead.

To top it all off, leaving the eurozone is the worse option unless a country faces a collapse of its financial system anyway, since that's what reintroducing your own currency with the intent to devalue would do.

In short, the best we peripherals have to hope for is that structural imbalances within the eurozone will be addressed when the northern economies recover.

And it is unlikely austerity will produce a recovery even for the North (although, rather immorally, as a European I dearly hope it will), because, well, I have news for Frau Merkel and her Smurfs: If you're pursuing a beggar-your-neighbour policy, you do not want others to follow suit. Stop peddling austerity at the G20, for the love of God! And if Weber becomes the new head of the ECB don't let him raise interest rates. Tie him up, threaten him, I don't care. Don't let him raise interest rates. The euro needs to stay low.

Sigh.

I would like our leaders to pursue, just once, a policy that (i) has a more than small chance of working, and (ii) does not involve screwing anyone over. Is that too much to ask? And I really detest that a small, despicable part of me is hoping that a beggar-your-neighbour strategy works, since it seems to be the only strategy that's forthcoming. Call it rational self-interest. I call it a failure of my ethics.

And people are still voting conservative. I suppose that, in a democracy with a propostional voting system, we all get governments we deserve and not those we need. Oh, well. Learning curve.

A final note: I usually post on Daily Kos as Dauphin and, while this is my first diary on eurotrib, my record can be seen there.

Display:
If I could, I would hibernate for the next few years so that, however it ends, this madness passes. Sadly, with cryogenics being fatal, that's not an option.

Iuris praecepta sunt haec: Honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere. - Ulpian, Digestae
by Titus on Thu Jun 24th, 2010 at 03:50:00 PM EST
very interesting, well-written diary, thanks and welcome, Titus. i hope to see more of your posts around here.

European Tribune - The Logic of Austerity?

And if austerity does work, it certainly won't work for the stated reasons. In fact, if it does work it'll do so on purely keynesian principles, as an accidental result of our leaders' bumbling.

austerity is the other foot after the banksta heist, stomping the juice out of the masses' labour, to make the wine of profit.

the poor work, it's what has to be done, day by day, and that's what will provide the future prosperity, if there are any resources left to tinker with. any. resources. at. all. meanwhile give them 3rd rate educations, so history is buried and they can be another brick in the wall.

rulers know all this, and press the advantages of inside info and powerbroking. pol-marionettes are expendable after a voting cycle or two, their agendas lurch on notwithstanding any 'opposition', (either bought off or crushed by fabricated consensus as 'unpatriotic'). the puppets are chosen for the talent to keep a straight face, while leading us down primrose strewn pathways, distracted with clown shows.

what happens when they go too far? we know, and i think it will be france, as usual, who will go to the wall for the rest of us.

the rumblings have begun, and while france's finance minister is extremely media-savvy, calmly and humourously articulate and determined to push this through, i wonder if her resolution will crack as has happened before.

the italians will show up in big crowds, but will remain relatively servile unless the caste self-destructs under the weight of the obvious socio-economic disparities. mostly they'll make a lot of noise and feel good to be ot of doors together..

the brits will grumble and suck it up, with protestant resignation and phlegmy wit, knowing in their guts the whole last 20 years has been based on whizzkid fiction finance and north sea oil... BP will buy the falklands and turn it into krakatoa 2.0.

if ireland can avoid dragging in old religious relics, she will slide into a fatalistic guinness stupor and sing melancholy songs, a bit like russia in the yeltsin years, with less vodka.

greece will go ballistic in a futile, tragic sort of way.

spain will party on somehow.

the eastern bloc will seethe and simmer about statues and other important things. they know what austerity looks like, close up, and there's a lot of coping they still have practice at. they will live like their grandparents, except they'll have facebook and windup cell phones.

germany... not sure which way this is going to turn, but we'll find out soon enough. hopefully persuade the rest of europe to be a world leader in greentech. in the interests of better organisation, belgium and the netherlands, nary a clue... must research more.

all of europe's new best friends are going to be judo experts or wear way too much chest-metal and prefer living in tents. which is something we also might get a lot of practice in like those folks whose houses fell down in aquila.

more storms, tornadoes, freak floods, drillrig disgraces, yawn... dooooom....

hate hoodlums, starving refugees, swarthy 5th columnists, well-educated, softspoken, high achievers going rogue, banks with big cement barriers around them.

all this for what? so we can figure out, dressed in skins, where we made the wrong turn in our drive to make life less uncomfortable?

austerity?

European Tribune - The Logic of Austerity?

Call it rational self-interest. I call it a failure of my ethics.

very powerful, it reads like a fittingly lapidary epitaph for the last hundred years.

i don't see austerity as all bad, the principle of austerity is a virtue, how it's being executed has more to do with expedience for the mighty few, against the numerous weak.

Titus:

If I could, I would hibernate for the next few years

set your alarm for 2013, you won't want to sleep through the party in the rubble of the mental berlin wall going down!

any more lurkers with great writing like this up your sleeves?

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Jun 24th, 2010 at 07:09:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Lyrical post, melo....new word....melo-fluous :-)

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson
by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Thu Jun 24th, 2010 at 07:16:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, I don't need much in life. Food, water, shelter, healthcare if I need it, some minor luxuries, some free time, and for my work to be useful. So austerity and a simple life are not something I'd necessarily be opposed to.

Still, on the resource front I'm far more optimistic than most here, although I think that we'll be facing an oil shortage due to insufficient investment (and we should be replacing it in transportation because of climate, anyway).

Finally, I don't think this is necessarily caused by a conspiracy. I think it's more a case of politicians and economists desperately hanging to ideas they know because trying something new is risky.

Iuris praecepta sunt haec: Honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere. - Ulpian, Digestae

by Titus on Thu Jun 24th, 2010 at 07:18:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Titus:
Finally, I don't think this is necessarily caused by a conspiracy. I think it's more a case of politicians and economists desperately hanging to ideas they know because trying something new is risky.

yup, i think so too. change is not perceived to be in their interest. the challenge is how to make them realise they are all of our worst enemy, and they themselves, sacrificing only illusions, would also benefit.

quite the hurdle...

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Jun 24th, 2010 at 07:34:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm cautiously optimistic, because reality has a way of asserting itself so that meaningful action becomes unavoidable. The only question is how much pain we have to endure until then.

Iuris praecepta sunt haec: Honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere. - Ulpian, Digestae
by Titus on Thu Jun 24th, 2010 at 07:42:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
me too. too much cynicism has a paralytic effect on the will.

we will bumble through, one way or another. i feel bad for those who still don't get how much change reality has in store, and are attached to things not changing.

the more stubborn, the further the fall.

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 03:23:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Donovan | Mellow Yellow Lyrics
They call me Mellow Yellow,

Time to get your writing boots on and turn this comment into a diary.  You're wrong about the Irish - neither Guinness nor religion will be the refuge this time around.  We've tasted the big time, and fancy our chances of getting there again despite the most monumental screw-up.  Germany won't have it all its own way when the periphery gets together!

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 07:08:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
if a renaissance can happen in tuscany, why not ireland?

blame it on midsummer moonshine

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 08:22:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Frank Schnittger:
You're wrong about the Irish - neither Guinness nor religion will be the refuge this time around.  We've tasted the big time

lol

how're ya gonna keep them down on the farm, now that they've seen paree?

as for guinness and religion, the other times they kept the two national remedies in different jars.

this time there'll be no priests to care about, the god of quaff needs no cloaked servants.

have you read your required dose of orlov today, Frank?

ireland has already conquered the world with celtic bars, as far flung as faery pollen. i'm thinking new potato cookbooks, or racehorse breeding manuals, or maybe elliptically eccentric writing courses, preferably in gypsy caravans, lotsa tinking in rainy dells.

you can tell i've never really visited ireland, i bet.

:)

{apologies to anyone offended by basil fawlty-level racebaiting}.

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 09:45:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Welcome to ET.

Having a think about your Diary.

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Thu Jun 24th, 2010 at 04:33:46 PM EST
I'm hoping/fearing for constructive criticism. I know it's not good form to take a position radically different from the site you're posting on as soon as you emerge, but this has been cluttering around my brain for the last day or two.

Iuris praecepta sunt haec: Honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere. - Ulpian, Digestae
by Titus on Thu Jun 24th, 2010 at 06:18:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
From the Nordic point of view, austerity is cultural. Self-denial is valued. There are a number of historical reasons for this:

Lutheranism and Calvinism (frugality and hard work as a defence against Total Depravity)
A harsh seasonal climate historically requires planning ('energy' has to be conserved and stored)
Industrialization came very late (and thus consumerism is relatively recent)
Education (and teachers) are highly valued
Honesty and modesty are socially valued
Taxation has amplified an inherently 'fair' society.
The influence of communism/socialism from the East
The majority of business leaders have an engineering degree
Banking is not an overpowering industry - it is seen more as a service

And men regularly see each other naked (in the sauna). This may appear flippant, but I believe it to be important factor in curbing alpa male behaviour, and in promoting classlessnesss.

 

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 02:51:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: naked men sweating in a steam bath

One of the prime 'signaling' methods of status is clothing.  Remove the clothing, remove the signal of acquired (or desired) social rank.


She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 12:13:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There's also a generation power exchange in that the younger guys tend to look better in the buff than the saggy old farts.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 03:20:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Titus:
I'm hoping/fearing for constructive criticism.

You'll get it too - though having a thick skin helps. ET is more diverse than some would have it.

Don't forget that peripheral/smaller economies will benefit asymmetrically from lower Euro and interest rates - being more exposed to non-euro trade and having historically been exposed to higher interest rates in smaller economies. The increased levels of economic integration also make it less relevant to discuss in nationalistic terms even though the politics is still largely couched that way.

The more important dynamic is increased levels of inequality in all member states, between member states, and between developing and developed parts of the world.  Insofar as the "crises" promote greater social revolution is the worse effected states it may also facilitate faster recover in those states.  Germany/France/Italy etc. seem to me to be much more socially stagnant than the periphery - which may be able to adpat to changed circumstances much faster.  Certainly I would be hopeful that Ireland can pull off that trick...

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 07:22:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Having a think about the periphery. I think the fate of the periphery or, better, of parts of its economy depends on the countries' relation to the Northern economies (Germany is a good example).

Generally speaking, any country whose economy exports heavily to the North would benefit from its recovery. This always applies to sectors which provide inputs for northern exporters. It also applies to sectors which proide inputs for companies which mainly supply goods for domestic consumption, unless austerity measures result in a decline in spending in the North.

Any country which mostly exports to the rest of the world can either benefit or not. Where there is no direct competition from the North (for example, in tourism) the weak euro would be a benefit. For exporters that compete with the North, I forecast problems and the possibility of deflation unless foreign demand is large enough to more than fill northern capacities.

Iuris praecepta sunt haec: Honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere. - Ulpian, Digestae

by Titus on Thu Jun 24th, 2010 at 06:06:44 PM EST
Germany is a southern economy as far as Ireland is concerned! :-)

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 07:27:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Is not a lot of european exports, imports in another european country? If so, it would appear we depress large internal trade in order to boost small external trade. And that would not be a good thing.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Thu Jun 24th, 2010 at 07:07:26 PM EST
That has occurred to me (see above), but I could not do anything except guess about the extent of the damage.

There are several reasons. Firstly, I do not know how much this will affect private consumption in the North. Secondly, I do not know how much internal trade ultimately serves external trade, since such trade would benefit from an export-driven recovery.

For example, all inputs, manufatured in Europe, that end up in a Nokia cell-phone (let's assume it's assenbled in Finland) will count as intra-European trade. But if the phone is exported, the whole production chain will benefit from it.

Iuris praecepta sunt haec: Honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere. - Ulpian, Digestae

by Titus on Thu Jun 24th, 2010 at 07:10:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And without knowing the intra-European/external volume of trade, as well as the possibility of adaptation (new customers) I would not dare venture an estimate.

Iuris praecepta sunt haec: Honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere. - Ulpian, Digestae
by Titus on Thu Jun 24th, 2010 at 07:12:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Titus:
And without knowing the intra-European/external volume of trade

At least this should be easy enough to find.

CIA - The World Factbook -- European Union

Exports:
$1.952 trillion (2007)

country comparison to the world: 1

$1.33 trillion (2005) note: external exports, excluding intra-EU trade

CIA - The World Factbook -- European Union

Imports:
$1.69 trillion (2007)

country comparison to the world: 1

$1.466 trillion (2005) note: external imports, excluding intra-EU trade

Choosing exports, and adding together the EUs member countries for the 22 largest exporters (I could not be bothered to find the five last in the list), gives total exports of $4.2 trillion. So external exports are just under half of total exports. Presumably the numbers are similar for imports.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 05:29:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
this is my first diary on eurotrib

And a brave, well written and well argued diary it is.

I know it's not good form to take a position radically different from the site you're posting on as soon as you emerge

OTOH, you will please those here who are always concerned lest we drift into a "cozy consensus"!

In any case, I think you would certainly prefer more stimulus to austerity and your point about free riders and differential impacts of austerity in a world economy are apropos of many recent discussions we have had about Germany imposing the costs of its preferences in policies on the remainder of the euro-zone. But it has also been noted that Germany has pursued its own preference in policy by unilaterally squeezing wages and German domestic income so as to make German exports more competitive. Unfortunately, the German public seems to have bought this policy. France less so.

Many Germans proudly note that while others may fear deflation, Germans still remember hyper-inflation. They may well be about to get their noses rubbed very thoroughly in deflation when the second dip downward comes. I have little confidence that the German government or the ECB will make anything like a timely response to such a development and, absent a timely response, a debt-deflation spiral could have some very nasty consequences for extremely highly leveraged, (50 to 1?) German banks with dodgy assets on their books.

And in such a situation don't underestimate the "flexibility" of US politicians in the face of what will be portrayed as competitive devaluations and a race to the bottom by some politicians and commentators in the USA. I have seen references to "Chermany" in some US financial blogs already. The ghosts of Mr. Smoot and Mr. Hawley must be chuckling and rubbing their hands together.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jun 24th, 2010 at 07:56:54 PM EST
The possibility of sanctions is one reason I wouldn't be trying this (even though other free-riders are more attractive targets). Too many things can go wrong.

And yes, I would prefer a coordinated stimulus response, both within the EU and worldwide. Even if this works, that approach would be far more ethical.

Iuris praecepta sunt haec: Honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere. - Ulpian, Digestae

by Titus on Thu Jun 24th, 2010 at 08:06:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I know it's not good form to take a position radically different from the site you're posting on as soon as you emerge

This is a radically different position?

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 05:21:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
At the time the US had excess manufacturing capability allowing Smoot and Hawley to dramatically restrict imports.  This is no longer true for the 'bread and butter' goods such as shoes, sheets, clothing, & etc.  All those industries are gone and, if not more critically, the know-how, supporting industries, and network(s) have vanished as well.  

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 11:07:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Were there money to be made they would be back in a flash--well, quickly enough, and they would be run with new capital plant that would be much more efficient than what the Chinese are now using, much of it being the equipment that was ripped out of former US plants over the last 40 years, equipment that was designed in the 50s and 60s, at the latest. We would pay more for consumer goods, but our current account deficit would be much smaller and there would be more decent jobs in the USA. Policy shifts could make this work, but it would reduce the profits to the financial elites.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 11:17:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Running a plant efficiently - ;-) - takes more than plopping a bunch of machines on a factory floor.  The workers have to have the skill set to run them, management has to be able to control quantity and quality, and the output has to have a market.  Few factories, and few fabric producer, outputs consumer ready goods.  They require intermediaries such as clothing designers, clothing manufacturers, and salespeople to enter the consumer market.  They require suppliers of known quantity and quality to provide inputs.  They require communication and transportation networks tying this, and other, factors needed.

Oh, and capital to do all that.

It took the US 150 years to build an industrial system and about 40 years to dismantle it.  Granted it will take less time to rebuild but it's not something that can be thrown-up overnight.  My ignorant guess is: 10 years.  

IF the capital is available and there's no impetus for the financial markets to pour money into something returning - if you're lucky - 6% when they can make 12% and up shuffling paper.


She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 12:11:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Euthanize Wall Street and the 12% parasitic profits disappear. Then the 6% looks better and might even turn into 8%-10%. The financial sector's "tax" on money strangles everything real. This is why Jerome continually calls for sovereign finance for wind farms.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 01:51:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I agree but who's going to do it?

Our elected political leaders.

Yeah, right.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 09:26:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think we have to hope for a self administered lethal overdose of bad debt. I think we already have it, it is just that Geithner and the Fed are keeping it from doing its job---for now.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 10:34:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The story of the last 3 years is the authorities doing their utmost to ensure that the plebes take the hit from the bad debt of the Masters of the Universe.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jun 26th, 2010 at 04:54:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, but they are foiled by their own prior success. They have been too successful in their wealth capture and there is not not enough readily available wealth to pay the gambling debts, even, perhaps, if we include their own wealth.

In the 90s I saw multi-million dollar projects in the "developing world" commissioned, built and shipped, the letter of credit cashed, only to sit in some remote spot in a shipping container. The whole point of the project seemed to have been the 10% "commission" paid to the originating authority in the country of destination. I just failed to recognize that this was the model for the entire financial system.  

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Jun 26th, 2010 at 10:08:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That has been the model of the Mergers and Acquisitions business for over a century.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jun 26th, 2010 at 11:20:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's not entirely true. A century ago, the mergers and acquisition business was about eliminating competition, or at least placing it in a framework that prevented it from being a problem. That actually served a valid function, in as much as capital-intensive production really doesn't work under competitive markets.

These days, though? Pure looting, as far as I can tell.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Jun 26th, 2010 at 06:41:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Already in 1904 Veblen was writing about transaction-based business having an incentive to multiply the number of transactions and about mergers and acquisitions not necessarily being beneficial to the industrial system but only to the bottom line of the Masters of the Universe who make them happen.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 27th, 2010 at 04:53:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I recall a big spate of M & A mania back in the 70s that was associated with the conglomerate craze and I don't really know much about M & A activity before that. But it does seem that in the 80s the phenomenon changed in nature when it turned towards cannibalism of US consumer product manufacturers for relocation of the manufacturing, first to "Right to Work" states in the US, then to Mexico and finally to China. Sending the labor abroad is a fundamental change from just shuffling manufacturing around the country or closing down unprofitable plants. I believe that for cannibalism to work they had to put new laws and regulations in place, and that this was part of what was "accomplished" under Reagan.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Jun 27th, 2010 at 01:46:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Of course this really got in high gear during the '90s with the passage of  the NAFTA legislation under Clinton.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Jun 27th, 2010 at 03:34:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The actual, unspoken goal of NAFTA and all the other "free trade" treaties was to generate poverty.  So how they doin'?

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Sun Jun 27th, 2010 at 03:44:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The goal was to vacuum up all available profits for the financial sector, which policy, when successfully implemented, greatly increases poverty in the rest of society. They did a wonderful job. Just how wonderful will become more apparent in the next year or two.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Jun 27th, 2010 at 09:51:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hmmmmm, discerning the intentions/goals of the wealthy/powerful.  Do they only care about buying the latest, grandest yachts or is it "It's not good enough to win.  The real thrill is watching so many people LOSE!" and realize that the non-wealthy are helpless to stop the march to ...  You fill in the blank.

Interesting.  Question for you history buffs.  Do today's trends mimic the trends prior to the rise of communism, etc. ?  Have we seen this before?

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Mon Jun 28th, 2010 at 08:38:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Everyone wants to think well of themselves. So most will anguish over the increasing poverty, deny that their activities had anything to do with it, donate token sums and say: "We have done our part. Nothing more can be done." Then an economist in their employ will write an article for the WSJ to clearly demonstrate that the problem with the poor is the poor.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Jun 28th, 2010 at 11:20:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
THE Twank:
Question for you history buffs.  Do today's trends mimic the trends prior to the rise of communism, etc. ?  Have we seen this before?

Some do, and some do not.

Mid 19th century Europe had cooperation between the powers that were (while they were competing in the colonies) to crush uprisings like those in 1848. There was class-loyalty among the rich and noble, and ongoing enrichment of the richest.

On the other hand the labor movement was on the rise in the 19th century and is now waning. Looking at conflicts like the start of the spanish civil war (20th century when the unions were at their peak) shows the political importance of the unions, the republic basically held were the unions forced governors to hand out guns and then promptly pressed the police and local garrison to their side. The fragmentation of the industrial workplace looks like the end of that kind of organisation. Or perhaps a new powerful labor movement will rise in China, though I still do not see signs of it.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Mon Jun 28th, 2010 at 04:12:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Another point that should not be underestimated is that in Russia, the major country where communists of some stripe or another actually successfully obtained and retained power during "the rise of communism," you had armed forces that had just fought an extremely bloody and unpleasant war (and I do mean extremely bloody and unpleasant - the trenches of the first world war make Viet Nam and Iraq look like pleasant picnics by comparison) for no particularly sound reason, and were being asked to simply stand down and go back to business as usual.

The existence of this lost generation of young men with combat experience (and the attendant, largely untreated, emotional baggage) who had nothing particularly attractive to go back to in civilian life probably plays a large role in both fascism and communism as they developed in Europe during the Interbellum.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Jun 28th, 2010 at 06:17:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
1914-1918 was fought for a very big reason. It was very much a rich man's war, reflecting the times and the class relationships which held, class relationships our elites have spent the better part of the past two generations attempting to re-create.

We are not yet back into a period of rich man's wars...the middle classes are still fairly large if a lot more precarious in position than they were 50, even 40 years ago, wars are still being fought by the poor, outnumbered and isolated by that middle class from the truly rich on whose behalf these wars tend to be fought, a simple logic of the economic system that further advantages their class interests.

I also don't think you can impute the rise of communism to the large numbers of demobilized and  disaffected men in the era following that war. The big emergence of communism (Russia) pre-dated this period. Fascism, clearly. Communism, really not at all, it was in the western part of Europe a worker's, not an ex-soldiers movement...Nazism on the other hand, clearly the latter and not so much the former.

We're slowly evolving back to the same class relationships which held prior to 1914. Maybe we'll have a chance, in our old age, to see history's eternal return in person!

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Tue Jun 29th, 2010 at 02:53:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
1914-1918 was fought for a very big reason. It was very much a rich man's war, reflecting the times and the class relationships which held

Yes. That's what I meant when I said that it was fought for no particularly good reason. Doesn't mean that there wasn't a reason - nobody engages in human and industrial self-immolation on that scale without a compelling reason. Just that it wasn't a good reason.

I also don't think you can impute the rise of communism to the large numbers of demobilized and  disaffected men in the era following that war. The big emergence of communism (Russia) pre-dated this period.

Yes and no - several major incidents during the Russian revolution featured disaffected soldiers who were tired of fighting and/or had just returned from fighting the rich man's war. And it shouldn't be forgotten that the first action that the industrial powers that were took in relation to the new Soviet entity was to sponsor a civil war there. If the only people who had military experience had been the cadres of a peacetime standing army, things might have looked a lot different (think Spain...).

Communism, really not at all, it was in the western part of Europe a worker's, not an ex-soldiers movement

Even if that's true (how many of those workers had served time in the War?), the workers' movement doesn't operate in a vacuum - and having an entire generation physically and emotionally crippled by having their youth stolen by trenches, gas and machine guns can't have done anything good for the political climate of the times.

We're slowly evolving back to the same class relationships which held prior to 1914. Maybe we'll have a chance, in our old age, to see history's eternal return in person!

Assuming that we live to see old age.

Me, I'd really rather prefer to defer the revolution if it requires a serious shooting war between major industrial powers to bring it about...

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Jun 29th, 2010 at 03:29:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
by das monde on Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 12:45:43 AM EST
European Tribune - The Logic of Austerity?
... let us assume we aren't concerned about the global economy. Let's assume instead that as long as our (European/national) economy is doing well, the world economy can go hang itself for all we care.
What is the time horizon here? Because, if the world economy does go hang itself after so many years, then the European economy becomes a closed economy, having collapsed its export markets, and then
... governmental austerity, which further lowers demand, is insane, since it only worsens the slump, and leads to a reduction in tax revenue. The same would be true in a completely closed economy.
Which is what you end up with if you actually successfully run mercantilist policies for long enough.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 04:36:59 AM EST
European Tribune - The Logic of Austerity?
However, as it is, both China and Europe are currently counting on massive US deficit spending. Krugman said
Dealing With Chermany - Paul Krugman Blog - NYTimes.com

So here's where we are: China has done nothing to change its policy of massive currency manipulation, and its exports are surging. Meanwhile, Europe is going wild for fiscal austerity. Angela Merkel says that budget cuts will make Germany more competitive -- but competitive against whom, exactly?

You know the answer, don't you? Yep: everyone is counting on the US to become the consumer of last resort, sucking in imports thanks to a weak euro and a manipulated renminbi. Oh, and while they rely on US demand to make up for their own contractionary policies, they'll lecture us on how irresponsible we're being, running those budget and current account deficits.

This is not going to work -- and the United States has to take steps to protect itself.



By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 04:40:52 AM EST
European Tribune - The Logic of Austerity?
It seems the North - and Germany in particular - realises that the EU is in essence France and Germany. The European project wanted to intertwine their economies so closely that war between them would become impossible. France and Germany are the centre of the EU. We others are all expendable.
You can say that again...

European Tribune - Germany: the Eurozone's fifth column

The problem is not only that rules don't apply to Germany, but that France repeatedly colludes with Germany to move the goalposts because it is also in France's narrow national interest.

EurActiv: EU to introduce concept of 'dynamic debt' (18 June 2010)

EU leaders yesterday (17 June) agreed to curb excessive public debt in the wake of the Greek crisis, with sanctions for rule-breakers set to be based on debt trends rather than absolute figures in order to avoid immediate sanctions for member states like Italy, Belgium, France and Germany.
(h/t Colman)

3 months earlier (to the day, on 18 March), I had written:

Eurostat's Selected Principal European Economic Indicators links to a table with annual time-series data on General government gross debt [as a percentage of GDP].
I'll insert Krugman here

Somehow I lost the labels, destroying the whole point of the post. The blue line is Germany; the red line is Spain.

In 2005, EurActiv reported:
Heads of state and government agreed at the March 2005 Summit to revise the EU's Stability and Growth Pact reform. Under the revised rules, member states must still keep their public deficits under a 3% GDP/deficit ratio and their debts under a 60% GDP/debt ratio.

However, the pact's rules have been made more 'flexible' across a range of areas. For example, member states will avoid an excessive deficit procedure (EDP) if they experience any negative growth at all (previously -2%), can draw on more "relevant factors" to avoid an EDP and will have longer deadlines if they do move into an EDP.

...

In essence, big countries such as France and Germany have won concessions making the pact more 'flexible' in various parts, adding up to a considerable relaxation of the rules. In return, countries such as Austria and Netherlands have won references to "enhanced surveillance, peer support and peer pressure".

The two thresholds - 60% for the debt and 3% for the deficit - remain unchanged.

Gee whiz, when the governments of Germany and France were about to have an "Excessive DeficitDebt Procedure" open against them, they lobbied to change the rules. And this was in 2005, not in the middle of the biggest recession since the 1930's.
Back in March, with the Greek bond crisis raging and Germany getting all holy about fiscal probity, it was really, really hard to take Germany seriously at all given their own fiscal record. Now, having successfully torpedoed Greece, they are going against Spain. It is no longer a question of not taking Germany's moral admonitions seriously, but of recognizing Germany as the leading destabilizing political force within the Eurozone.


By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 04:48:05 AM EST
The basic problem with Theft is, after a while, those having their wealth taken stop bothering to create it since it's only going to be stolen.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 12:16:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Some crass Keynesianism...

European Tribune: Keen on Keynes

Thus we are so sensible, have schooled ourselves to so close a semblant of prudent financiers, taking careful thought before we add to the 'financial' burdens of posterity by building them houses to live in, that we have no such easy escape from the sufferings of unemployment. We have to accept them as inevitable results of applying to the conduct of the State the maxims which are best calculated to 'enrich' an individual by enabling him to pile up claims to enjoyment which he does not intend to exercise at any definite time.


By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 04:55:11 AM EST
The problem in Spain and other countries is that we did add to the financial burdens of posterity by building houses to live in, but that didn't cause the Global Financial Crisis. The Global Financial Crisis was a result of adding to the financial burdens of posterity in order to pile on claims on existing assets so a lot of unproductive debt (also known as counterfeiting hereabouts) was incurred.

A case in point: France had a moderate house price bubble, while Germany didn't. However, there is more household debt in Germany than in France as a fraction of GDP. So, did Germans spend more in car loans than the French did in housing?

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 04:59:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
France still had some income growth whereas Germany's wage level stagnated. Given that a higher level of consumer debt is not all that surprising.
by generic on Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 06:07:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's a policy choice related to the sharing (or not) of the German trade surplus.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 06:19:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thus, one could argue that the euro's fall in value because of austerity will make European products, especially advanced ones, more competitive and that demand from developing world could help Europe recover even as it deepens the global slump, because developing countries need advanced goods (read: German machinery).

One could argue that, but one would have to remember that one of the reasons Europe makes precision engineering is that the demand for precision engineering has relatively low price elasticity. In other words, if you make the world's best ball bearings, the people who need good ball bearings will buy your ball bearings almost regardless of the price.

But that cuts both ways: It means that you can afford to charge high prices, but it also means that efforts to boost demand by lowering your prices will be much less effective. So in trying to improve competitiveness, Europe may well be undercutting demand for our own products faster than we're improving market share. (China is in the opposite situation, because they don't do precision engineering nearly as much. So they can (possibly) capture market share by price competition faster than they are depressing the overall market.)

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 08:33:28 AM EST
The conclusion seems to be that Europe's economic leadership not only don't understand economics but they also don't understand their own comparative advantage.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 08:50:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
They understand their own comparative advantage well enough:

When things are going well, you cut taxes (and you get no points for guessing who you cut taxes for...) because, hey, the government has a lot more money than it needs, right? When things are going poorly, we all need to tighten our belts and share the pain, so let's dismantle the social infrastructure (but tax hikes are destructive and reduce growth).

Oh, you meant their countries comparative advantage? When did that ever matter?

Jerome:

GDP numbers look good, but not their repartition. Proponents argue that the wealth could be distributed, as it is created in bigger numbers, but somehow it isn't, and their killer argument against redistribution is that it would reduce the wealth creation, and thus should be avoided. The elites have created a win-win situation for them - or, more to the point, a lose-lose situation for middle classes: either there is wealth, as long as it's not shared, or there isn't any wealth at all.

Go back to work. It's better if some of us enjoy the fruits of that labor, rather than noone, right?

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 08:56:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Can someone - an economist, preferably - please explain to me why increased inequality and wealth in the hands of the wealthy leads to more efficiency/productivity as opposed to more income for the pooest/middle classes?

Do the wealthy allocate incremental wealth more rationally in improved productive capacity - as opposed to conspicuous consumption?

Is increased incremental  wealth for the poor spent less rationally and less on improving productive capacity?

As the poor spend proportionately more of their income on food/shelter/education/services, is any incremental additional expenditure by them not conducive to more employment, productivity/efficiency, and proportionately a lower carbon footprint?

Most economics seems to be "class-blind".  It doesn't investigate the differential effects of income distribution as opposed to the gross effects of GNP growth.

The argument seems to be that big corporations are so much better at using/investing wealth than the poor/middle worker/consumers and that consequently, what's good for big corporations is good for workers/consumers through the trickle down effect of increased employment etc.

Is their any empirical basis for this?

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 09:20:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Can someone - an economist, preferably - please explain to me why increased inequality and wealth in the hands of the wealthy leads to more efficiency/productivity as opposed to more income for the pooest/middle classes?

  1. The wealthy save a greater portion of their income. And since savings drive investment, and since investment in capital plant is a prerequisite for GrowthTM, giving the wealthy more money gives you more GrowthTM for your money.

  2. Not taxing and subsidising incomes leads to the most efficient allocation of resources possible given individuals' independently determined preferences. The fact that not taxing the rich leads to increased inequality and increased wealth in the hands of the wealthy is incidental.

As the poor spend proportionately more of their income on food/shelter/education/services, is any incremental additional expenditure by them not conducive to more employment,

No, because in the long run the economy tends towards full employment.

productivity/efficiency,

No, because savings drive investment - consumption does not.

and proportionately a lower carbon footprint?

Possible, but irrelevant, since we will never run out of oil, not in 10000 years, and copper can be made from other metals.

Most economics seems to be "class-blind".  It doesn't investigate the differential effects of income distribution as opposed to the gross effects of GNP growth.

Oh, they do. But that's welfare effects and that's not relevant to the subject of industrial planning.

Is their any empirical basis for this?

No.

Savings do not, in fact, cause investment in a monetary economy; markets do not allocate resources efficiently, under any non-psychotic definition of efficiency; the economy does not, in fact, trend towards full employment; welfare effects are highly relevant for industrial planning; and while copper can be made from other metals, linear accelerators are sort of expensive...

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 09:53:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah yes, but what about "merit"?  The rich are richer because they are smarter and the poor are poorer because they are dumber and therefore deserve it. When God made the markets he also provided for the unequal distribution of brains....

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 10:05:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
European Tribune: John Stuart Mill or the ethics of liberalism: Part I, private property
The social arrangements of modern Europe commenced from a distribution of property which was the result, not of just partition, or acquisition by industry, but of conquest and violence: and notwithstanding what industry has been doing for many centuries to modify the work of force, the system still retains many and large traces of its origin. The laws of property have never yet conformed to the principles on which the justification of private property rests. They have made property of things which never ought to be property, and absolute property where only a qualified property ought to exist. They have not held the balance fairly between human beings, but have heaped impediments upon some, to give advantage to others; they have purposely fostered inequalities, and prevented all from starting fair in the race.
The conclusion must be that the economic policy debate was more progressive 150 years ago than it is now.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 10:19:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Perhaps because the PTB (powers that be) have realised that ideological capture are more effective than physical expropriation?

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 10:50:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That is true only in a historical milieu in which the supply of carrots is sufficient to pacify the rabbits.
When the feces hits the ventilator, and carrots run short, ideology, "manufactured consent" (Thanks, Noam) goes straight to hell, and the rabbits turn nasty.

Capitalism searches out the darkest corners of human potential, and mainlines them.
by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 03:10:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's why the idea of equal free education for all stinks to high heaven for the unequally minded. What the unequally minded folk can't accept is that almost every toddler, whoever their parents, would, if transported into the unequal world and grew up in it, and received all its blessings, would prove to be equally able to game the system in adulthood.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 03:32:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well if you are a member of the elite, you don't want your kids to have to compete with the kids of the masses, now do you?  That's why class societies run by dumb rich kids are less productive (as well as less equal) than those where quality education is available to all.

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Sun Jun 27th, 2010 at 04:10:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Precisely...

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Jun 27th, 2010 at 04:26:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Meritocracy has outlived its usefulness as a societal lie...

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 25th, 2010 at 06:39:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Perhaps there's more to "Merit" than simply having and using a good brain- to game the system.
Perhaps the idea of "merit" has changed, from a notion of competence combined with ethical constraints, to something washed free from inconvenient notions of the broader good and empathy.
"Merit" without a directing morality becomes predation.


Capitalism searches out the darkest corners of human potential, and mainlines them.
by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Sat Jun 26th, 2010 at 01:57:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The directing morality is predation. And 'merit' is defined entirely as predatory success.

This is why Keynes, Minsky, etc, don't matter. The conflict has moved elsewhere.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Jun 26th, 2010 at 04:39:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
ThatBritGuy:
The directing morality is predation

If you follow Friedman's dictum that the sole purpose of a Corporation is profit for shareholders, then this is the inevitable result.

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sat Jun 26th, 2010 at 05:33:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Can someone - an economist, preferably - please explain to me why increased inequality and wealth in the hands of the wealthy leads to more efficiency/productivity as opposed to more income for the pooest/middle classes?

You should be asking if it leads to those things, not why it does.  Because the answer is that it doesn't.

It leads to unstable aggregate demand and imbalances.  I think there's also an element of Friedman's smoothing out of (expected!) lifetime earnings at play here.  People's wages fall, so they borrow for what they want on the expectation that times will get better.  Intuitively that makes some sense.  But it's disastrous for households when wage growth is fundamentally altered by sub-par recoveries and slackening jobs markets, as have been pretty normal in many places for a couple decades now.

Do the wealthy allocate incremental wealth more rationally in improved productive capacity - as opposed to conspicuous consumption?

Is increased incremental wealth for the poor spent less rationally and less on improving productive capacity?

No, because the poor have a higher propensity to consume.  The wealthy might invest in productive capacity with higher wealth, or they might plow their money into Treasuries, or go chasing high returns on mortgage-backed securities.  Having greater wealth doesn't imply rationality, not that rationality should be expected at any income level.

I submit that spreading wealth downward would provide a much more stable economy.  Isn't that a major part -- maybe the major part -- of the postwar story?

It doesn't investigate the differential effects of income distribution as opposed to the gross effects of GNP growth.

Actually the differential effects on income distribution are a critical piece of the foundation for macroeconomics, at least if I understand you correctly.  Isn't that what we mean when we talk about marginal propensities to consume, the multiplier, etc?  Granted, those are generally being evaluated in the aggregate, but you can't do macroeconomic analysis -- or at least can't do it well -- without acknowledging the effects of income distribution.  If income redistribution has no major impact, it's difficult for me to grok Keynesianism working as it seems to (which, if you believe the CBO studies among others, is pretty damned well).

The argument seems to be that big corporations are so much better at using/investing wealth than the poor/middle worker/consumers and that consequently, what's good for big corporations is good for workers/consumers through the trickle down effect of increased employment etc.

Is their any empirical basis for this?

No, and that's really the basic fight.  As with our politics, so with our economics: One side is basically right, the other believes gravity is a plot by the Jews to get them to drop change.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Sun Jun 27th, 2010 at 09:01:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A few bones to pick...first, it is not obvious that people are voting conservative these days...we had elections here in France not long ago, quite the contrary happened. Belgium's elections can't really be spun either way (though note the Socialists cleaned up in Wallonie), the Greens and Die Linke are making great gains in recent elections in the German lander, the Left Bloc doubled their seats in Portugal's recent parliamentary elections (and the "socialists" there clearly won), "socialists" won also recently in Greek and Spanish with the former still sporting a healthy Communist party. Great Britain and Netherlands elections were in neither case clear ideological mandates, and the underlying issues make economic prescriptions relative to the voter's will in both countries at best  ambiguous.

The problem isn't so much that people are voting conservatively (and btw one can be quite conservative and yet vote for real socialists). It's that when they vote for a party calling itself socialist (as in Spain, or in Greece, or the SPD in Germany, or in France 15 years ago) they get austerity too, just called by different names. Workers get screwed, just in a different way.

The other bone is that I think there's another logic going on than simply beggar-thy-neighbour economic self-interest defence. There is geopolitical interest at play here as well, and Germany is now projecting power the way it knows best. There are two tactical mistakes I think the Germans are making (because let's face it, the austerity is coming outre-rhin, even if I accept the premise that the core of EU is indeed the Franco-German alliance - and I don't - even our very conservative President Sarkozy is far less conspicuously playing austerity cards at this time). First, they've already enforced austerity on workers to aid east-west convergence after the Kohl-generated unification economic disaster which they exported to the rest of Europe. (This is not the first time Germany asks the rest of Europe to eat shit on its behalf.) They've been enforcing austerity on German workers since Schroeder's SPD-led government. We can belly-ache all we want about Axel Weber (and yes, he is likely to be a disaster) but the fact is the last SPD minister of finance, Steinbrueck, held every bit as anti-worker opinions and enforced that vision as destructively as Weber likely will. The problem here is two-fold. First, most of the German elite are essentially either Austrian-school or otherwise anglo-neo-liberal (for workers either way you are fucked), and this impregnates the rest of Europe every bit as destructively as when the UK is doing the exporting.  Second, in the rest of EU, elites tend also to be either neo-liberal (though usually along the US/UK lines, especially strong in central and eastern periphery but also here in the west) or the dissidents who more or less react to this anglo-american model than anything else and fall into alternative yet mainstream models of third-wayism (SPD of Schroeder, NVV of Kok) which, now that we have a real crisis for labour and workers, we see reduces into Austrian-school economics with the innovation of government-administered charity (e.g. social benefits which of course are themselves under threat of "austerity"). This is why social democratic parties (they tend to call themselves "socialists" but they are certainly not in any real sense of the word socialist) tend to end up quite anti-worker even as they claim to be pro-worker and, while they are tactically better, marginally, than the alternative, strategically they are worse, because in putting them in power there is no prospect of alternance, they offer simply milder forms of the same pensee unique, and it is their decline you are seeing in the western part of Europe, not the left's in general. So, I think what the Germans end up doing now is counter-productive for themselves, it will screw workers even more, which will have one of two results...either stoking German nationalism (we see this already and we know where this has gone in the past, and not just once) or, hopefully resulting in a further resurgence of dissidents (and it is worthwhile to note that not all the dissidents in Germany are in Die Linke...there are many on the especially Catholic right as well).

Second, I think if Germany were indeed to follow this path you lay out, you'd find American resistance to Chinese mercantilism married quite seemlessly to resistance to EU mercantilism, and whatever retaliation you see to China will go for any other abusive trade partner. The rest of Europe will pay more than Germany as, as you say, German exports are generally capital goods and a US tariff on goods from the EU won't hit them too hard. Less so though other EU countries like France or Italy, more heavily tilted to consumer-goods exports.

Unfortunately, soneone always gets screwed over, you can't avoid that, only mitigate it. But, what we are all witnessing really, is Germany screwing everyone over. And there is a precedence for this, which explains the lost decade of the better part of the 1990's in Western Europe. They've been here and their central bank has fucked us all before.

The question is, will we take it? So far, the answer appears to be that, with the possible exception of France and Italy, our "leaders" are bent over and beckoning Axel to come hither.

 

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Sat Jun 26th, 2010 at 05:52:47 AM EST
I don't think I have ever made use of the fact that a large part of the German elite follow the Austrian school in trying to understand their behaviour. Makes them seem less insane somehow since the Austrians too claimed vindication in the crisis.

Empirical and theoretical reasons why the GFC is not behind us | Steve Keen's Debtwatch

A majority of the 16 individuals identified in Bezemer (2009) and (Fullbrook (2010)) as having anticipated the Global Financial Crisis followed non-mainstream approaches to economics, with most of them identifying as Post-Keynesian (Dean Baker, Wynne Godley, Michael Hudson, Steve Keen, Ann Pettifor) or Austrian (Kurt Richelbacher, Peter Schiff).

The question is, will we take it? So far, the answer appears to be that, with the possible exception of France and Italy, our "leaders" are bent over and beckoning Axel to come hither.

Except its actually not them who'll get the Axel treatment. Which makes couching this in terms of nations not all that helpful.

by generic on Sat Jun 26th, 2010 at 06:38:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Makes them seem less insane somehow since the Austrians too claimed vindication in the crisis.

Well, yes and no. The Austrians labour under the loanable funds fallacy - they believe that low interest rates cause malinvestment rather than just speculation. As such, they view the pain of deleveraging as necessary and justified, since it is caused by people borrowing real resources and wasting them.

Contrast this with Keen's model, which doesn't necessarily treat the debt as representing anything other than funny-money that the financial sector has counterfeited for itself.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Jun 26th, 2010 at 07:57:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The Austrians see money as an object - with a use value - which is completely detached from the reality that it is factors of production which have a use value.

Money is not an object: it is a relationship. It has no cost and no use value.

A unit of account has no more got a cost than has a kilogramme or a metre.

Credit has a cost - consisting of a system cost; a default cost; and an opportunity cost.

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sat Jun 26th, 2010 at 08:22:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
They are as crazy as a bedbug, but I needed the reminder that the crisis did not in fact prove all the crazies wrong.
by generic on Sat Jun 26th, 2010 at 09:15:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The crash did not. The response to it did.

The Austrians and the neo-Keynesians both predicted the crisis, on roughly the same grounds. Where they part ways is on the effect of the response. And here the data decisively favours the neo-Keynesians.

But of course, the Austrians aren't actually in the business of economics, since they reject the scientific method of establishing testable hypotheses, testing them and then refining them based on the results of the tests. As such, they are more properly considered a branch of moral philosophy, and a rather repugnant branch at that.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Jun 26th, 2010 at 06:44:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
JakeS:
As such, they are more properly considered a branch of moral philosophy,

My tagline refers.....

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sat Jun 26th, 2010 at 07:10:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
redstar:
There are two tactical mistakes I think the Germans are making (because let's face it, the austerity is coming outre-rhin, even if I accept the premise that the core of EU is indeed the Franco-German alliance - and I don't - even our very conservative President Sarkozy is far less conspicuously playing austerity cards at this time).
You think?

European Tribune - Comments - European Salon de News, Discussion et Klatsch - 25 June

The leader of the [Spanish right-wing] opposition has recalled that already last year Germany limited the deficit to 0.35% of GDP in its constitution except in cases of natural disaster or recession. The president of France, Nicolas Sarkozy, has also been favourable to the idea

Migeru:

EurActiv: EU to introduce concept of 'dynamic debt' (18 June 2010)
EU leaders yesterday (17 June) agreed to curb excessive public debt in the wake of the Greek crisis, with sanctions for rule-breakers set to be based on debt trends rather than absolute figures in order to avoid immediate sanctions for member states like Italy, Belgium, France and Germany.
(h/t Colman)

...

In 2005, EurActiv reported:

Heads of state and government agreed at the March 2005 Summit to revise the EU's Stability and Growth Pact reform. Under the revised rules, member states must still keep their public deficits under a 3% GDP/deficit ratio and their debts under a 60% GDP/debt ratio.

However, the pact's rules have been made more 'flexible' across a range of areas. For example, member states will avoid an excessive deficit procedure (EDP) if they experience any negative growth at all (previously -2%), can draw on more "relevant factors" to avoid an EDP and will have longer deadlines if they do move into an EDP.

...

In essence, big countries such as France and Germany have won concessions making the pact more 'flexible' in various parts, adding up to a considerable relaxation of the rules. In return, countries such as Austria and Netherlands have won references to "enhanced surveillance, peer support and peer pressure".

France has, indeed nothing to do with this.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jun 26th, 2010 at 11:35:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No doubt there's a double standard at play here, and likely much more than that (after all, the "crisis" and the drop in value of the Euro helps German exports compete against other capital goods exporters like Japan and, yes, the United States), with many of the benefits faling to German banks (who get bailed out) and exporters (who benefit from more favourable exchange rates on the back of Spanish unemployment. Germany's been running the big CA surplus, so they hold the cards. Most if not all the noises about exporting austerity, to Spain, Portugal, Greece, Ireland and (less conspicuously to those of us in the western part of the EU)  especially the east, are coming from Berlin. Not London or Paris.

In this regard, if you think Greek measures are draconian, look at the Baltic states. They followed the UK debt model into an artificial boom and a German-inspired general economic depression to...prosperity? Pros-something anyhow, as half the  female population of Riga, Latvia, are now prostituting themselves. They're no doubt speaking more and more German these days, Euro-bearing German men taking the Ryanair bus from any number of German cities non-stop to RIX round-trip for about the cost of 30 minutes with a Hamburg harlot. Maybe that's what EU "enlargement" was all about (pardon the pun) - cheaper access to hookers.

In this light, while I'm certain France is doing nothing decisive (if there were something decisive to do - far from certain) to help out in lobbying Berlin to pull its head out of its ass and stop riding a country like Spain who's actually done everything right - unlike Berlin - in public finances over the past decade, I'm also not certain Paris is to blame for what is unfolding, at least not the government in Paris, though I'm not sure you could, as was the case when Jerome's Socialists were in power roughly 75 years ago, count on Paris to do the right thing even if they had power to do so. The elites are all the same here, whether they call themselves conservatives or socialists...in the end they are all mandarins, looking out for, above all, the mandarin class they belong to. As for Madrid though, it is certainly ironic to see that while Franco was at least capable of telling the Germans no all those years ago, a so-called (and tellingly, multi-deferment-receiving) socialist like Zapatero is eagerly bent over and, as I said in my last post, motioning Axel to come hither.  

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Sun Jun 27th, 2010 at 03:36:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Part of the austerity bet relies on a view that France and Germany, along with the rest of Europe, can make different choices going forward than are available to competitors such as the USA.

The US has shown no great inclination, desire, or ability to produce things internally, purchase locally made goods or really change anything about itself as a society in order to address the economic realities of our era.

If Europe believes that it can behave differently, which I think is reasonable considering the past sixty years, why shouldn't it take that gamble?

Can Europe turn itself into a self-sufficient marketplace in some sense?  Producing the finished goods and buying them locally? If they can still leverage the cheaper manufacturing, resource and labor markets of the outside world as needed whilst keeping out the finished-good competition for their domestic EU market there is certainly a different game at play.

The USA won't do this and China cannot.

Further, if Europe pursues relationships with those parts of the world that are making similar choices regarding sustainable economics, such as Brazil and South America in general, could we not see a parallel "world economy" based on different principles?

I perceive a great battle going on with the US/UK/WTO establishment and Germany, in particular, regarding the continued existence of the "global market" that we've come to know and love since the 80's and 90's.  The French have always been reluctant and independent dealers and I think any kind of "third way" appeals to them inherently.  It is the Germans who needed to be on board to bring along the rest of Europe.

If Germany says fuck it, we'll do it ourselves, and can demonstrate some benefit to its EU partners at the expense of relatively short-term austerity, who is to say it's such a bad idea.

In conclusion, austerity for the sake of furthering the existing global system is one thing, but austerity for the sake of changing away from that system into something else is also a possibility.  

by paving on Mon Jun 28th, 2010 at 12:27:37 AM EST
A really excellent post.

There are other interesting aspects to the great drama currently unfolding; or 'Great Awakening' as Brzezinski put it recently.

Firstly, there's the 'How many barrels has the G7?' question. What happens when the rest of the world who actually own the resources start declining dollar IOUs? The US can keep down a couple of countries, but not a couple of hundred.

Secondly, a massive, and growing amount of value is not that of widgets and 'stuff', but communications and knowledge.

eg I read somewhere that around 10% of Bangladesh GDP now originates from communications - eg Grameen Phone and all that, which provides productive economic activity to literally hundreds of thousands of people through service provision not widget manufacture.

Finally there is an Austerity/Discipline paradox.

Unnecessary Austerity - ie when the resources are there but inequitably distributed  - actually requires Discipline to impose it. The countries who are the most disciplined - and most used to collective action - (and least self indulgent) are the ones who least need Austerity.

Whereas the ones which most 'need' Austerity are the ones which are the least Disciplined and are therefore the least likely to be able to impose it.

I believe that a complementary and consensual 'third way' is very rapidly emerging. This approach - which is necessary to provide a framework for global economic interaction - has its roots upon a legal approach (contrats de societe) which the French understand but which the 'Anglo' world does not, being used only to what the French call 'contrats de mandat'.

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Mon Jun 28th, 2010 at 04:49:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
One aspect of the stimulus-austerity debate that is not often considered is the political one. I think bond investors are better at it than governments, which is quite odd. Many bond investors have already priced in an eventual rejection buy Greek citizens of austerity measures. But we can also think of the political consequences beyond this. If the USA after the G20 doesn't go along with the herd and institute budget cuts, then we can expect that some of the gains it has made with its reserve currency will begin to bleed.

Given the state of the world economy is not ONLY in bad shape because of bankster malfeasance and the extreme disparity in wealth distribution, but also because of horrific wars in Iraq and Afganistan causing instability, one would think that political considerations should enter into the equation.

Canada just spent $1 billion on security measures. What does that tell us?

An American gov't that slashes spending and sends us into recession will likely be tossed out on its ear. When you consider that the teaparty has made huge inroads into the GOP, we might want to take into account what it would look like to have a US President far to the right of Dick Cheney.

by Upstate NY on Mon Jun 28th, 2010 at 12:21:52 PM EST
So we're in a Prisoner's Dilemma.  The moment one breaks ranks to capture the advantages of austerity, everyone else (or at least everyone who can) follows suit, and we're in a race to the bottom regarding services, safety nets, demand, production, name it.  As for the US, I don't foresee any austerity any time soon either, but don't be surprised to see deficit hawks attacking European austerity.  Never underestimate the hypocrisy of a desperate politician:

Capt. Renault: I'm shocked, shocked to find gambling going on here.
Emil: Your winnings, monsieur.

by rifek on Wed Jun 30th, 2010 at 04:28:36 PM EST


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