Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.

Monday Open Thread

by afew Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 12:07:32 PM EST

On a Monday...


Display:
I can't find On A Monday, so try this from Leadbelly:

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 12:13:04 PM EST
Before they were assimilated into the Borg, Kraftwerk were producing a very different style of music. I  have just discovered their third album on youtube which captures them in transition.

First harking back to their style on the first two albums;-

and then this which is quite evidently showing them moving on to a new horizon;-



keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 12:20:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Cory Doctorow alerts us to a disturbing piece of legislation

Google knows it. Viacom knows it. The Chamber of Commerce knows it. Internet democracy groups know it. BoingBoing knows it. But, the Internet hasn't been told yet -- we're going to get blown away by the end of the year. The worst bill in Internet history is about to become law. Law is very real here in the United States and legal language is often different than stated intentions -- this law would give government and corporations the power to block sites like BoingBoing over infringing links on at least one webpage posted by their users. Believe the EFF, Public Knowledge, Google when they say this bill is about much more than copyright, it's about the Internet and free speech everywhere.
[....]
    PROTECT IP (S. 968)/SOPA (HR. 3261) creates the first system for Internet censorship - this bill has sweeping provisions that give the government and corporations leeway and legal cover for taking down sites "by accident," mistakenly, or for NOT doing "enough" to protect the interests of Hollywood. These bills that are moving very quickly through Congress and can pass before Christmas aim to give the US government and corporations the ability to block sites over infringing links posted by their users and give ISPs the release to take any means to block peoples' sites, including slowing down your connection. That's right, some say this bill is a workaround to net neutrality and is bigger than net neutrality.



keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 12:30:20 PM EST
Here's what's been going round among my FB friends today:

http://readersupportednews.org/news-section2/317-65/8378-backgrounder-on-net-neutrality

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher

by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 01:44:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Rachel Maddow explains the Herman Cain argument

The first minute is essential viewing, and the next 14 minutes is pretty good too.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 12:32:42 PM EST
I've stopped listening to Rachel. Somebody must have told her, "Don't start your show with the OWS crowd or we'll boot you." Amy Goodman ALWAYS starts with OWS material. I look for it daily. All Maddow does is give the Repugs more air time. Bullshit.

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 02:54:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 12:36:29 PM EST
Definitely skilled on a bike that big.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 01:30:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, I noticed he grounded the side bars a few times, but even when I rode a lot I'm quite sure I'd have dropped my bike at some point early on

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 01:39:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Physics ... Physics! It's all Physics!

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 02:56:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You've made my husband so happy.

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher
by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Tue Nov 15th, 2011 at 05:50:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Stillonline from dKos reflects from personal experience on the emotions and issues that will impact the victims of the Sandusky/Paterno child abuse scandal at Penn State.

It is a harrowing read, but some things we need to know.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 12:43:51 PM EST
i read this. all the way. no words left.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 01:14:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And the Mayor of Oakland has done it again, clearing the occupiers from the square opposite City Hall, bussing in a few hundred police from neighbouring areas.

They arrested 30 of the occupiers who were holding a prayer meeting (great TV footage I'm sure). There will be a meeting at 4 pm local to decide what to do next. It will be interesting cos the Mayor simply cannot allow them to re-occupy when the feds go home or the overtime budget runs out.

But you can't help feel that even when OO lose, they win in terms of publicity.

Meanwhile the Mayor's legal adviser has resigned in protest

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 12:52:21 PM EST
Wonder how long before they try the "Syria Approach"?

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 02:58:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, anyone who knows the arrogant and condescending way that British government is organised could have guessed that the 2012 vOlympics would have some glaring problem exposed at some point or another.

Guardian - US officials worried about security at London 2012 Olympics

The Guardian has learned the committee is attempting to resolve a potential crisis over venue security, after conceding it had underestimated the number of security guards needed at the 32 sites across the country. Originally it had thought 10,000 guards would be enough, but after a review over the summer it now believes it will need up to 21,000.

Venue safety is not the responsibility of the police, so the firm G4S was awarded the contract to find and train the initial group. The company will this week begin an advertising campaign to meet that target. But the organising committee does not have the money to pay G4S to make up the shortfall, and does not believe the firm has enough time to do so, forcing ministers to turn to the Ministry of Defence for help.

The MoD has offered 3,000 soldiers, and another 2,000 in reserve - half the total required. The ministry is working within its own tight budget, and the late request for help has irritated some officials.

"What have they been doing for the last five years?" asked one. "There is less than a year to go and they've only just realised they need twice the number of security guards they first thought. Where is the money to pay for this coming from?

what a joke !!

anyway, no doubt to reassure us all that they're taking it all very very seriously indeed, Phillip Hammond slightly over-reacts.

Guardian - Ground-to-air missiles could be deployed at London Olympics.

Seriously, do you need to read any more ? I am reminded of the tanks Blunkett sent to Heathrow in 2003 brandishing weapons that could only have caused far more mayhem than they could ever have solved.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 01:27:41 PM EST
This is pussy shit. Nukes ... I want suitcase nukes! Teach those terrorist/occupier/ex-hippies a thing or three.

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 03:03:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Jobs, man, it's jobs in the 21st century! Keeping the rabble down will require significant manpower.
by asdf on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 04:43:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
set to stirring martial shiny brass-kicking muzak

sekurity, is purity... it's you and me.

your kids are louts, they fight and shout

we've got the cure you'll see

a uniform for every thug, to keep the homeland free

so step on up for uncle sachs, you dumbass criminal types

we'll teach to have self respect, make borgs of you pussy asswipes

                        " * "

creaky segue to crooning, sobbing, drooling 40's violins

the women and children sleep so quiet and safe, because all the gangs have united, la la la, peace in the valley, tanks in the street, chips with everything.

you lucky, lucky people, extra GM chocolate for you!

 

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 06:16:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If you leave out the pussy, the cadence fits better. other than that, well done sir.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Tue Nov 15th, 2011 at 01:13:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I just received notification of this vacancy from an agency

Our company currently seeking Customer Service Representative to join our team.

Employee Type: Part-Time Employee

The major duty of the incumbent is to promptly receive and process stockbrokers payments to further transfer them applying specified method. Please inquire for detailed work scheme.

Requirements:
 - Expert skill in managing payments and transfers between our company and clients.
 - Knowledge of basic payment systems.
 - Ability to schedule working hours effectively.
 - Availability of spare time (3-4 hours per day).
 - Advanced user ability to operate computer and to use Internet and e-mail.
 - Legal age.

 Payment basis: During the trial period you will be paid 1500 GBP per month. You will also be keeping 5% commission as bonus from every payment received from a client.
 With the current volume of clients on average your overall income will add up to 3000 GBP per month. After the trial period your base salary will go up to 2000 GBP per month, plus 8% commission (11% for financial agents with corporate bank account).

Benefits:
 - Flexible work schedule.
 - Possibility to combine the job with primary employment.
 - Free training course.

If you would like to apply to this vacancy and inquire more detailed information, please reply email to our Customer Service Representatives Manager.

£1500 a month part time ??? Does this sound remotely real to anyone ?

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 01:37:52 PM EST
Might be real, but I'd check if it's a multilevel marketing scam.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 02:00:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
TGTBT, still worth checking out though. it'd be good to talk to someone who's doing it, or try googling it to see if anyone's bitching about getting used.

at that wage it sounds like it'll be skirting some law or other. prolly a hot line to the caymans...bring a shovel!

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 02:27:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Depends on what they mean by "specified method" and, additionally, of what and for what the "stockbroker's payments" consist. I.e., is there legal liability?

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 02:31:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If it came by email from a source previously unknown to you, then it is total bullshit. The same scam has been around for several weeks.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 03:36:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
thanks for the heads up

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 03:39:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Definitely a scam.

Wind power
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 04:04:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sounds like a sophisticated version of the well-known Nigerian prince.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 04:07:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Advance fee fraud as it is technically called

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 04:15:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Jesse LaGreca, aka MinistryofTruth on dKos, who has become a voice, if not a spokesperson, for the Occupy movement is exasperated by the latest Catfood Commission sellout from the Democrats

I protest for many reasons, but at the head of the monster there is the phenomenal wealth that is being used to bribe our democratically elected officials in both parties, and I don't know how true reform is achieved without confronting this behemoth.

I know what the GOP stands for, they stand for the interests of the super rich and powerful and they will use any means to achieve that end.

I have no idea what the Democratic party stands for anymore. Sure, they talk a good game, but when push comes to shove I don't think the Democratic party stands for ANYTHING, other than the feigned consensus forged between every bribe taking Republican and a growing crowd of bribe taking Democrats. Since 2009 I have seen the Democratic Establishment squander every opportunity to hold the GOP accountable for lying us into Iraq and selling a laundry list of failed ideas that harm the majority of Americans while tremendously benefiting big business and the super rich. Now, the new 2011 version of the Democratic Establishment seems hell bent yet again to commit political suicide for the 2nd time in 6 months in order to achieve the bipartisan collusion with the GOP on behalf of their undying fealty to the special interests who have bribed them in their pursuit of free markets under austerity for all, and while all this takes place before our eyes in the open the media asks me "Why are you protesting? What are your demands?" as if they are blind and can not see the bribery taking place. It is because, obviously, the media is entirely corrupt too.

I am reminded of JFK's speech 50 years ago about what makes a liberal

I believe in human dignity as the source of national purpose, in human liberty as the source of national action, in the human heart as the source of national compassion, and in the human mind as the source of our invention and our ideas. It is, I believe, the faith in our fellow citizens as individuals and as people that lies at the heart of the liberal faith. For liberalism is not so much a party creed or set of fixed platform promises as it is an attitude of mind and heart, a faith in man's ability through the experiences of his reason and judgment to increase for himself and his fellow men the amount of justice and freedom and brotherhood which all human life deserves.

I believe also in the United States of America, in the promise that it contains and has contained throughout our history of producing a society so abundant and creative and so free and responsible that it cannot only fulfill the aspirations of its citizens, but serve equally well as a beacon for all mankind. I do not believe in a superstate. I see no magic in tax dollars which are sent to Washington and then returned. I abhor the waste and incompetence of large-scale federal bureaucracies in this administration as well as in others. I do not favor state compulsion when voluntary individual effort can do the job and do it well. But I believe in a government which acts, which exercises its full powers and full responsibilities. Government is an art and a precious obligation; and when it has a job to do, I believe it should do it. And this requires not only great ends but that we propose concrete means of achieving them.

Our responsibility is not discharged by announcement of virtuous ends. Our responsibility is to achieve these objectives with social invention, with political skill, and executive vigor. I believe for these reasons that liberalism is our best and only hope in the world today. For the liberal society is a free society, and it is at the same time and for that reason a strong society. Its strength is drawn from the will of free people committed to great ends and peacefully striving to meet them. Only liberalism, in short, can repair our national power, restore our national purpose, and liberate our national energies. And the only basic issue in the 1960 campaign is whether our government will fall in a conservative rut and die there, or whether we will move ahead in the liberal spirit of daring, of breaking new ground, of doing in our generation what Woodrow Wilson and Franklin Roosevelt and Harry Truman and Adlai Stevenson did in their time of influence and responsibility.

Jesse, get yer man Bernie Sanders to stop being independent and create a new national party around him. Elect him president.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 02:14:24 PM EST
I'd drop everything and kill myself working on a "Sanders for President" campaign.

Not Gonna Happen this time 'round.

(What would be fun would be a Sanders for President, Paul for Vice-President ticket.  The sound of exploding heads would ripple across the breadth and length of this mighty land.)

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 02:57:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I've tried on a few occasions to use my psionic powers to will Ron Paul into having non-batshit ideas when it comes to social issues.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 03:34:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If you could get Bernie to run economic and social policy, and RON PAUL(ZOMG!!) to run foreign policy, you'd have a pretty awesome candidate.

Horrible stump speeches, but awesome candidate.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 06:20:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
damn that's a fine speech.

it really drives home what has been done to the word 'liberal' by its hijacking into 'neo'-liberal.

bill moyers wrote LBJ's speeches, who wrote this one?

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 06:21:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Bernie Sanders can now and then get something done, but he is mostly a splutterer.
by rootless2 on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 09:57:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Jesse is a sucker and, like many Dkosians, he thinks that oversimplification is clarity. The Democratic party is a COALITION of people who do not all share the same point of view on everything. The GOP is a disciplined right wing ideological vehicle with several top-down organized factions. This may be too complicated for someone who wants it to be GOODIES versus BADDIES, but it's the reality. Even the "left" of the Democratic party is complex. For example, Bart Stupak who nearly killed health reform to support the Catholic Bishops pro-coathanger alliance was a staunch environmentalist and pro-labor, while Sen Brown of Ohio is strongly pro-labor but keeps supporting polluting chemical industries that employ many of his constituents. The white left in the US, as Fred Hampton pointed out, is a big fan of Custerism even though Custer did not win. He did, however, make a clear statement and not fuck around with all those confusing 11-dimensional tactics shit that true progressives despise so much. Raise high the banner of the 7th Cavalry, True Progressives, and march forward to glory or something.
by rootless2 on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 09:51:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Polling in the GOP presidential campaign are all over the map today.  

  •  Romney has forged to above 30% or has fallen to third place at 18%.

  •  Cain is at 27% or 25%

  •  Gingrich is running 22% or 28%

So take your pick and place your bets.

The only consistency I can find is a Gingrich surge.  All the polls I've seen have him in the 20 percentile range, a major improvement over even two weeks ago.


She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 03:08:56 PM EST
I will bet on Romney. And if that happens, Obama is in trouble.

The best thing that could happen for the Democrats right now (barring the outbreak of world peace) would be for any of the other numbskull GOP candidates to win.

by asdf on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 04:56:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I agree Romney is the safe bet.  

Just for laughs, here are the current odds at Linesmaker.


She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 05:04:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Agreed.

Gingrich is apparently surging at the moment though.  If he gets the nomination, that may just eclipse Rick Scott election in Florida as the new "Wow, even I didn't think they were that stupid" low.

Although I guess that should be a relief, since Newt polls -- what, about 15 points back of Obama (despite being well known)?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 06:23:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Romney is no threat. Many Wingnuts don't consider him to be christian and his days in Bane Capital are not going to be easy to sanitize.
by rootless2 on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 10:01:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And the internets are all a'twitter over an anti-Gingrich e-mail sent to All & Sundry:

Politico  |  Anti-Newt Gingrich chatter begins:

A conservative source forwards an anti-Newt Gingrich email making the rounds this weekend, drawing Republicans' attention to the former House speaker's history of off-message and ideologically erratic comments.


She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 08:12:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I have to write a short Flash animation script about the potential future of this by Friday. Apua! Hjälp!

I'm looking forward to the gestural complexity of the ingegnere moderno version.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 03:34:17 PM EST
Before this, the only Finnish gesture I had seen was the threatening fist or a finger pointing directions.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 05:18:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Interesting idea and a nice first-hack implementation.

I'd like to see a "Yes, Do It" confirmation pattern as well as an immediate "STOP!" over-ride command.  

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 06:00:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's built on Kinect, so I presume face and voice recognition will also be included at some point.

What interests me (though it's not going in the script), is the emergence of a culture-wide gesture language. I doubt that this Finnish effort will be the basis for it, but a common gestural interface with 'machines' seems inevitable.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Nov 15th, 2011 at 05:56:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Problem is the two guys gesturing at each other within camera range and the system following their "commands."

That way madness lies.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Tue Nov 15th, 2011 at 02:19:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Or democracy.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Nov 15th, 2011 at 06:46:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 04:09:45 PM EST
Only number 19 !!!

demand a recount

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 04:18:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Pioneering Dear Leaders

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 04:20:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You should be proud, though it is said to go before a fall. You are truly one who deserved to be on that list.

I've decided to erase what i wrote about some of the other picks. (and then i couldn't stop.)

With some notable exceptions (Green Giraffe, Stiesdal), they basically sucked up to whoever was big. The inclusion of Sinovel is a travesty based upon poor turbine performance, despite Mainstream's mistake.

NextEra doesn't belong there as an example of green utility, what with the parent having stopped solar power for three decades... in Florida!!!

Tulsi Tanti? Can he even sell a Suzlon turbine these days?

Denise Bode? Has AWEA achieved anything even near what Christian Kjaer has achieved in Yurp with far longer service. Last i looked, AWEA remained unable to reframe the energy debate with the same arguments for the past decade. Meanwhile, EWEA has consistently changed the game here.

Respect for Andrew as well, for building GH and selling it to Germanischer Lloyd. I well remember giving him a tour of our main project before he started GH.

My opinion of the editorial change at Windpower Monthly just dropped, even though i wrote the End Of Warranty Inspection article for their special this past summer.

i shut up now. At least you're one of the ones there who truly deserved it, J. You should be proud.

(I wonder why they didn't pick the project manager of Alpha Ventus, who lived on the installation ship for six months! I loved spending hours with him today. Respect.)

(PS. Knew i shouldn't have clicked post.)

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Mon Nov 14th, 2011 at 04:50:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Here's Tulsi Tanti finally venting what's been known since 2011 began, the onshore wind industry is getting squeezed, The stranglehold between on one side artificially cheap wind turbines from China (with performance not close to European standards), and on the other of a coordinated attack on the industry and its costs from the conventional fuel poisoners.

Wind Power Faces Zero Margins, U.S. `Boom and Bust,' Suzlon Says


Nov. 14 (Bloomberg) -- Wind-turbine makers have seen profit margins wiped out, and the potential end of tax credits in the U.S. will see its "boom-and-bust" market persist, Suzlon Energy Ltd. Chairman Tulsi Tanti said today.

"Today everyone is selling just at cost level," Tanti said in an interview in Mumbai. "You're almost getting Chinese prices in the U.S. Nobody is making any margin whether it's a supplier, a turbine company or a project construction company."

Tanti's remarks add to concerns voiced last week by the heads of Vestas Wind Systems A/S and Gamesa Corp. Tecnologica SA, Suzlon's rivals in Europe, about the health of the world's second-biggest wind-turbine market. The companies already are coping with slimmer margins caused by cuts to subsidies across Europe and the growth of Chinese competitors led by Sinovel Wind Group Co., which benefit from state funding to expand abroad.

You will also notice that three of the others on Jé̂rôme's list are quoted saying the same. What they are talking about is the failure of AWEA to capitalize on the industry's strength over the past five years, and a return to the traditional insanity of the US boom and bust cycle.

Some of the 2nd tier companies are already under intense pressure to survive. Vestas is downsizing as we speak, and Spain's socialist turncoats have effectively cut off much of 2012 for development, which will hurt Gamesa more than it already is.

In the US i've seen this boom and bust cycle three times already, each time driving key players into bankruptcy or near. I stopped fighting after a while, as it was fruitless. One not only had to fight the entrenched conventional energy interests, but they owned some of the wind industry's key players, and made sure not to upset the parent's apple cart. Since the industry had no where else to support, it had to let players like NextEra have their way. Now see what that's brought.

There is now also in the UK a concerted effort to skew the debate with false new analysis. Jé̂rôme likely knows better how successful the UK attack is going, since it's relatively new i can't say.

At the end of the day, the fate of the wind industry has nothing to do with engineering or finance. It's all political, with the biggest global firms in the game, and the politicians a veritable sideshow, with some notable exceptions.

I haven't been so frustrated in a decade or more. I haven't been so feisty either, especially this early in the morning.

(But see the next comment for some good news.)

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Tue Nov 15th, 2011 at 01:45:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The US boom and bust has been incredibly damaging to the industry - and not just in the US. During the most recent boom (2005-2008), manufacturers under-invested in production capacity, as they feared (rightly) that demand would not last - this resulted in turbine shortages, price increases across the supply chain, and speculative behavior (financial investors buying rights to tons of turbines in advance and reselling them later). That damaged the price competitively of wind.

And now we have the bust phase, which is killing the same manufacturers on the way down - something now further amplified by the Chinese coming in, as CH noted, with cheap financing in their pockets (something that the US won't do because it's communist or something, and the the UK won't do either, but that Germany has done to a much larger extent than people realize - and smartly so, as it's the cheapest way to bring costs down...)

Wind power

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Nov 15th, 2011 at 04:28:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As if to underscore Sven's view of the power of the net, we have this gem of a propaganda tool from Vestas.

Vestas Launches One-of-a-Kind Marketing Campaign


In its largest marketing campaign to date, Vestas, the global leader in wind energy, is using LinkedIn and Bloomberg Businessweek to reach out to corporate decision makers, informing them about the brand building and financial benefits of investing in wind energy. Vestas believes that corporations are part of the solution for climate change and they are in the position to do more by investing directly in wind energy. (Since corporations run our world now. Ed.)

"We have launched one of the most unique marketing campaigns to talk to the top executives and decision makers from many Fortune 500 companies about the financial and brand building benefits of investing in renewable energy and specifically wind energy," says Morten Albaek, Group Senior Vice President of Global Marketing and Customer Insight at Vestas.

Notice the campaign has to use the language of the robber barons, as if stopping CO2 and poison production is "brand building."

Still, you've got to give Engel's team some credit.


Recipients of the customized magazine are directed to customized versions of EnergyTransparency.com with energy consumption data specific to their company and industry sector; and/or consumer brand perception data.

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"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Tue Nov 15th, 2011 at 01:56:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I want to be clear to separate my pent up frustration at the current state of the industry, and the enormity of what Jérôme has accomplished. I hope all of you can try to imagine the difference in scale that offshore windpower in Europe entails... the photos we've posted in the past just hint at what this truly entails.

At the beginning of commercialization of offshore wind, it was expected that project costs could only be born by major utilities, and similar global companies.  Jérôme has shown offshore parks can be developed by institutional finance as well.

He is also responsible for bringing in governmental banks such as the European Investment Bank and the similar German KfW into the mix, a very important step.

Respect, and a doff of the cap to  Jérôme and the Green Giraffe team. Looking forward to meeting in Amsterdam.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Tue Nov 15th, 2011 at 02:10:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Is there a meet-up in Amsterdam?

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher
by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Tue Nov 15th, 2011 at 06:04:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Likely a trade event in the Wind sector.

To err is of course human. But to mess things up spectacularly, we need an elite — Yanis Varoufakis
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Nov 15th, 2011 at 06:10:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
EWEA Offshore 2011

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Tue Nov 15th, 2011 at 06:23:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hah... had my fingers crossed for nuthin'.

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher
by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Tue Nov 15th, 2011 at 10:50:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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