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Libya - 22 February

by dvx Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 02:42:19 AM EST

An open thread for updates and breaking news on the struggle in Libya and other Arab and Mideast nations.


Display:
Live Blog - Libya Feb 22 | Al Jazeera Blogs

9:03 am We just spotted this seven-minute video, allegedly of fighting in the streets of Tripoli on Sunday night after the speech by Saif Gaddafi, the leader's son. The description says that youths who tried to burn a picture of Muammar Gaddafi near Green or Martyrs' Square were dispersed by gunfire, and you can certainly hear extremely heavy firing in the clip.

Thousands of protesters reportedly took the square on Sunday night before being confronted by Gaddafi supporters and armed troops; some witnesses on the ground say hundreds were killed in the ensuing violence. In the clip, you can hear the men yelling repeatedly "There is no God but God" and "God is great" to encourage themselves:



The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman

by dvx (dvx.clt t gmail dotcom) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 02:45:09 AM EST
If you listen to the sounds of ginfire,. you hear stuff heavier than assault rifles, Heavy machineguns or even autocannon fire.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 05:05:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Here's Boillon, France's dynamic young ambassador to Tunisia, in praise and defense of Gaddafi, in front of the incredulous panel of French TV show "Nulle part ailleurs".

"Everyone makes mistakes... we all have the right to forgiveness"

To be fair, the extract is undated. Probably not from the past couple of weeks.




It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 07:49:12 AM EST
Extract from a Canal + program (le grand journal, a program destined to well-off young urban educated people) dated november 25th, 2010

According to "le figaro"

by Xavier in Paris on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 05:08:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
.. as reported in the diary "Colossal blunder: Sarkozy style diplomacy in Tunisia".

</shameless plug>

Oh, and Le Canard Enchainé reported that in August 2003, Michèle Alliot-Marie (of Tunisian private jet rides fame), then French Minister of Defence, was gifted with a private VIP visit to a Lybian archeological site, courtesy of the Lybian regime. Her partner, Patrick Ollier, was at the time chairing the Parliamentary France-Lybia friendship group. A long story of friendship...

by Bernard on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 02:55:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yves has this Guest Post.  Also, The Arabist speculates.

"Beware of the man who does not talk, and the dog that does not bark." Cheyenne
by maracatu on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 07:53:43 AM EST
Alive in Libya:
· We heard that night will be the "Mother of all battles". There are preparations on both sides. Special Forces are brought into Tripoli to protect key areas. In our neighborhood where son of Kaddafi lives, we saw a large number of forces entering his palace and securing a few blocks around it.


"Beware of the man who does not talk, and the dog that does not bark." Cheyenne
by maracatu on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 08:07:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think this might be the point where the international community should intervene. Unfortunately the UNSC is about 8 time zones later.

Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 08:16:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And Libya and Bahrain are still members of the UN Human Rights Council.
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 08:19:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hasn't the Libyan delegation to the UN defected en masse?

Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 08:35:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Good point. That leaves Bahrain. Pity the Human Rights Council isn't as efficient as the Socialist International.
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 09:35:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Latest (from The Guardian) is that the deputy ambassador to the UN has defected but the ambassador still supports Gaddafi.
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 03:43:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Libya crisis: UN security council to meet over Gaddafi crackdown | World news | guardian.co.uk
The United Nations security council is to meet in closed session to discuss Muammar Gaddafi's brutal crackdown in Libya amid fears of a bloodbath following the dictator's appearance on state TV to deny he had fled the country.

Libya's deputy ambassador to the UN, Ibrahim al-Dabashi appealed for international intervention, starting with a no-fly zone over the country, to help stop "a real genocide".

...

Parts of Tripoli were attacked by fighter jets and helicopter gunships overnight. Twenty-six people also died in the eastern city of Al Bayda as it came under fire from forces using aircraft and tanks, according to one eyewitness report.



Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 09:09:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The Mercenary pilots are Ukranians, Serbians and Pakistanis @SultanAlQuassami

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 08:37:14 AM EST
The Aircraft used were Mig 23

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 08:37:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Mercenaries issued with Body Armour to protect against the police who joined the protesters yesterday, Apparently blocking the roads into Tripoli in an attempt to  stop protesters reaching the capital

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 08:49:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There are mercenary Mig 23s for hire out there?

Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 08:50:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well Mig 23's were very common, so I assume theres not that great a shortage of fully trained and type-qualified pilots out in the world, who have mainly never got to use their skills on anything real. I assume that there will be a lot who have seen  "Make Money Now, help put down the Islamic terror(Change as apropriate by pilot)" and thought that its an opportunity to be a real fighter pilot that they never had in their national airforce carreer

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 09:15:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I mean the hardware, not the pilots. But, apparently, Libya has a lot of them:

Libyan Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-23BN/MS/ML/UB  Soviet Union Ground attack/interceptor/trainer 124 Most are grounded


Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 09:23:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Libyan Embassy UAE Flag changed to protestors flag from Green Government flag

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 08:50:27 AM EST
Via Al jazeera, 12 Libyan diplomats resign their posts including Ambassador to France and representative to Unesco

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 08:55:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
libyan ambassador to us switched apparently


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 09:40:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"All the eastern regions are out of Gaddafi's control now...The people & the army are hand-in-hand here." army major Hany Saad Marjaa

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 09:57:37 AM EST
According to the Reuters interview with major Hany Saad Marjaa, Tobruk is in the people's hands as well. Army siding with them. #libya

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 10:16:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Dow sinks 110 points in first minutes of trading, oil spikes 7% as
investors worry about violence in Libya. http://on.cnn.com/aWaIzF

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 10:23:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"@richardengelnbc: #Libya  At Tubruk military base..alll soldiers tell us they are with the people..Army switched sides in this area"

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 10:25:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Broad story from Libya is Army has largely switched sides, heading for Tripoli. Air force is controlled by Gaddafi's own tribe, bombing army

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 10:30:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You remember the old story of the Soviet generals in Paris? No?

Well, sitting at a Paris Café after the end of WWIII, one Soviet tank general asks another:

- So... who won the air war?

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 05:08:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
FT.com / Markets - Anger as Milan bourse fails to open
A trading expert at one US bank said: "All of us are pretty worried. Because of the news around Libya and the need to trade certain stocks we do need to trade some stocks."

But asked whether the exchange had halted trading because of the Libya situation - as many Milan dealers had speculated - a spokeswoman said: "No".

The Gaddafi family, either independently or through the Libyan investment fund, owns 7 per cent of UniCredit, Italy's largest bank, 2 per cent each of defence company Finmeccanica and carmaker Fiat, and 7.5 per cent of Juventus, the football club. Oil company Eni, construction firm Impregilo, Fiat Group truck maker Iveco and Finmeccanica have extensive exposure to Libya.



Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 10:26:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
ouch

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 10:31:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Pulitzer Center (Pulitzercenter) on Twitter
RT @arwaCNN: After our last live broadcast, #Bahrain Min. of Information called & said we're not allowed to live broadcast #CNN


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 12:29:09 PM EST
Nic Robertson (NicRobertsonCNN) on Twitter
  1. At border: Suitcases piled high on roofs of cars, one man who fled fighting in tripoli, said situation "very bad, very bad" #Libya #Libia 4 minutes ago via web
    • #Tunisians set up soup kitchen at border serving bread and meat for Libyans fleeing country. #Libya #Libia 5 minutes ago via web
      • #Tunisian military ramping up security at border over concerns about instability in #Libya. #Libia 10 minutes ago via web
        • Hundreds of young men hauling bags, families, fleeing Libya, arriving in Tunisian border town by bus, truck, car and taxi #Libya #Libia


        Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
        by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 12:30:10 PM EST
        ashraf khalil (ashrafkhalil) on Twitter
        1. Knowing Qaddhafi, this could go on for hours. It's like he's carrying on a spirited debate with the voices in his head, live on TV #Libya about 1 hour ago via web
          • Qaddhafi ranting and raving on #Libya state TV right now. Basically proving to everybody that yes he is completely batshit crazy


          Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
          by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 12:34:44 PM EST
          ashraf khalil (ashrafkhalil) on Twitter
          1. The voice translating Qaddhafi's "speech" for Jazeera English just changed. I think he broke the brain of the 1st translator #libya #feb17 42 minutes ago via web
            • Gave up trying to understand Qaddhafi's rantings in Arabic. Realtime translator for Jazeera English deserves a raise #Libya #Feb17


            Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
            by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 12:35:08 PM EST
            [ Parent ]
            ashraf khalil (ashrafkhalil) on Twitter
            Quote of the night: "If they don't follow Moammar Gaddafi who will they follow? Someone with a beard?"#libya #feb17


            Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
            by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 12:38:25 PM EST
            [ Parent ]
            Sultan Al Qassemi (SultanAlQassemi) on Twitter
            1. Gaddafi: Where were you when we were fighting the USA and Britain? And when we fought Israel & Sadat on the border? #Libya 15 minutes ago via web
              • Gaddafi: All the youth of Libya must form peoples protection committees. The Libyans can have any constitution they want. #Libya 16 minutes ago via web
                • Gaddafi: I call upon you to march tomorrow to Darnah that is being ruled by the followers of Bin Ladin. #Libya 19 minutes ago via web
                  • Gaddafi: Arab media organisations manipulate my statements. I call all who love Gaddafi to march tomorrow & attack the rodents. #Libya 20 minutes ago via web
                    • Gaddafi: I am glory personified for #Libya & all the people. I will die like my ancestors a martyr in Libya. 24 minutes ago via web
                      • Gaddafi: Libya will remain the leader of Africa and the world. Some are trying to copy what happened in Egypt and Tunisia 30 minutes ago via Twitter for iPhone
                        • Gaddafi: I don't have a position in the government to resign from and if I did I'd throw my resignation in your faces. #Libya 32 minutes ago via Twitter for iPhone
                          • Gaddafi: treason and hooliganism defame Libya. I am not a a President, I am the leader of the revolution forever. #Libya 36 minutes ago via Twitter for iPhone
                            • Highlights of the Gaddafi speech: All the people of Libya support the Revolution of Al Fateh (His 1969 revolution)


                            Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                            by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 12:40:13 PM EST
                            [ Parent ]
                            Pulitzer Center (Pulitzercenter) on Twitter
                            While Gaddafi warned against violating the constitution in his address, Libya has none. Gaddafi suspended the constitution 1972. -AJE #Libya


                            Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                            by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 12:40:46 PM EST
                            [ Parent ]
                            Live Blog - Libya Feb 22 | Al Jazeera Blogs

                            7.30pm: After the EU suspends its Libya Framework Ageement, and amid international condemnation of Gaddafi, where is President Obama? Rosalind Jordan, Al Jazeera's correspondent in Washington DC explains:

                            You didn't need the translation to see how much Gaddafi was trying to blame this on the US, among others. So the White House doesn't want to make any public speeeches - they're very aware of how that could be seen across the country.

                            Gaddafi asked, in his speech: 'Do you want the Americans to come and occupy you like in Afghanistan and Iraq?' If the president weighs in now, the Libyan authorities may well use that against the protesters.

                            US senator John Kerry wants the UN to step in - and for the African Union to investigae alleged use of mercenaries.



                            Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                            by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 12:50:17 PM EST
                            [ Parent ]
                            Live Blog - Libya Feb 22 | Al Jazeera Blogs
                            8.11pm: German Chancellor Angela Merkel has called Gaddafi's speech "very very frightening" and said he had declared war on his own people..


                            Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                            by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 01:30:04 PM EST
                            [ Parent ]
                            MsJournalist (Journalisti) on Twitter
                            Gaddafi: "I will cleanse Libya house by house if protesters don't surrender." - AJE


                            Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                            by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 12:36:42 PM EST
                            MsJournalist (Journalisti) on Twitter
                            1. Maltese military monitoring Libyan naval vessel in waters off Malta.- AJE about 2 hours ago via HootSuite
                              • Libyan naval vessel in waters off island of Malta. - AJE #libya


                              Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                              by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 12:37:08 PM EST
                              Reports Italian Airforce has investigated Libyan ships -AJE

                              Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                              by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 04:05:19 PM EST
                              [ Parent ]
                              Trying to defect?  There was a report of naval forces bombarding Benghazi.

                              There to indict - shoot down - any more pilots trying to defect?

                              She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                              by ATinNM on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 04:07:52 PM EST
                              [ Parent ]
                              Live Blog - Libya Feb 22 | Al Jazeera Blogs
                              7.27pm: Following Gaddafi's speech, online reports of gunfire being heard throughout Tripoli.


                              Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                              by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 12:51:13 PM EST
                              Rawya Rageh (RawyaRageh) on Twitter
                              #BREAKING Arab League suspends participation of #Libya's delegations #Feb17


                              Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                              by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 12:58:05 PM EST
                              BBC News - Middle East and North Africa unrest
                              1824: Ceasefire Magazine tweets: "Gaddafi has achieved the impossible: he made Mubarak look dignified and Ben Ali look like a genius #Gaddafi #17Feb #Libya


                              Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                              by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 01:27:26 PM EST
                              And how does he make his son look?

                              Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
                              by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 01:31:34 PM EST
                              [ Parent ]
                              This is unfortunately all second hand,  he chose the one period when I was out doing the weekly shop so its hard to tell who is maddest

                              Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                              by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 01:46:01 PM EST
                              [ Parent ]
                              Hasn't he been achieving the impossible for most of his career? The harder question is whether he makes Berlusconi look dignified....
                              by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 02:04:53 PM EST
                              [ Parent ]
                              Photobucket
                              by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 06:33:58 PM EST
                              [ Parent ]
                              Hadeel Al-Shalchi (hadeelalsh) on Twitter
                              New #Libya ambassador to India has taken office, denies "blood baths" on al-Arabeya


                              Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                              by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 01:42:23 PM EST
                              BBC Global News (BBCWorld) on Twitter
                              Eyewitness in #Tripoli tells BBC: heavy shooting now in more than 4 major areas of city, including parts or the city centre


                              Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                              by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 01:43:56 PM EST
                              Ghazi Gheblawi (Gheblawi) on Twitter
                              Our man @taimur_ly in #Benghazi holding Anti-Aircraft 14.5mm bullet case used against peaceful protesters #Libya http://twitpic.com/42n1vi


                              Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                              by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 01:54:40 PM EST
                              [ Parent ]
                              Sultan Al Qassemi (SultanAlQassemi) on Twitter
                              Al Hurra: Husni Mubarak is in the Saudi town of Tabuk & is suffering from Pancreatic Cancer


                              Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                              by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 01:56:29 PM EST
                              They're all going to "die" shortly after arriving in Saudi Arabia?

                              Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
                              by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 04:18:15 PM EST
                              [ Parent ]
                              Live Blog - Libya Feb 22 | Al Jazeera Blogs
                              Anita McNaught, Al Jazeera's correspondent in Istanbul, says, contrary to earlier agency reports, some Turkish flights were able to land in Tripoli and evacuate some Turkish citizens.  So far, 2,141 Turks have been airlifted home - though more than 23,000 remain stuck in Libya.


                              Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                              by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 02:15:46 PM EST
                              Nir Rosen

                              Watching Qadhafi give his speech I'm relieved to see that somebody has more public relations problems than I do right now. Al Jazeera is juxtaposing his speech with footage of Libyan's opposing him in Benghazi. This is similar to what Jazeera did in Egypt, when it went from Mubarak speaking to the reaction of Egyptians in Tahrir Square, or from Umar Suleiman speaking to those demonstrators.

                               

                              Its hard to imagine the revolutions sweeping the Middle East happening without al Jazeera. Yes Tunisians started their revolution, taking the first steps, and it took Jazeera a couple of weeks before it focused on Tunisia. But once its started and Jazeera was on its war footing it could connect activists and demonstrators from around the country, it could disseminate information to other parts of country. Now middle class people in Tunisia who were told by their parents not to get involved in politics could learn about what was happening elsewhere and feel that somebody else was also expressing their grievances, or other grievances, and it was ok for them to express them too.



                              Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                              by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 02:49:53 PM EST
                              From what I can gather the only place Gadaffi writ still runs is Tripoli and its environs and only there because of military domination.  Protesters are facing artillery attacks, naval gunfire, air attacks, on on-the-ground light infantry, and armor.  How long this intense repression can continue is open.  The regime has been importing weaponry and munitions for 41 years so even with only local logistic support it could, damn it all, go on for months.

                              The regime continues to increase it's military capability by hiring and transporting mercenaries into the country.  

                              The rest of the country, including the borders of Tunisia and Egypt, are free.  Although military units led by regime loyalists, commanded by Gadaffi's sons, remain in the countryside.  The military value of these units is unknown; their logistic situation is likely poor.  

                              Benghazi is completely under control of the revolutionaries and reported to be calm.  Regime supporters are conducting a mis-information campaign claiming violence is still on-going.  Benghazi airport was closed yesterday due to the fact there was no air traffic controllers.  

                              The oil fields in the southeast of Libya, along the Egyptian border, seem to be shut-down with the workers on strike and the international operators, e.g., BP, evacuating - or attempting to evacuate - their people.

                              I didn't see Gadaffi's speech.  From the reactions I'm reading/hearing it was an 'Own Goal.'  At least some government leaders, e.g., Merkel, have awoken to the fact Gadaffi is a sociopathic murdering scum.  Any actions (= "doing something real") based on that realization have yet to be announced.

                              She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                              by ATinNM on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 02:50:17 PM EST
                              The Egyptian Air Force should be more than capable of taking out the remaining Libyan planes, helicopters and tanks that are loyal to Gadaffi, possibly acting as part of African Union and Arab League initiatives if either of those could be arranged. That would change the balance significantly. If their involvement stopped there they would probably come to be seen as heroes by most Libyans. The down side would be fanning the embers of Pan-Arabism, which could terrify regimes such as SA, Yemen and Morocco, but several Arab leaders appear horrified at what is happening.

                              "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
                              by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 03:55:07 PM EST
                              [ Parent ]
                              Agree.

                              However, I think the Egyptians would prefer to stay out of direct involvement, if they can possibly do so.

                              She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                              by ATinNM on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 04:02:39 PM EST
                              [ Parent ]
                              Everyone would prefer to stay out of direct involvement, but somebody is going to have to do it eventually.

                              Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
                              by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 04:22:31 PM EST
                              [ Parent ]
                              I wonder what the former occupants of Tahrir Square would think of such action, and what the US and Israel would think.

                              "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
                              by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 09:06:11 PM EST
                              [ Parent ]
                              The regime continues to increase it's military capability by hiring and transporting mercenaries into the country.

                              With what money?

                              Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman

                              by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 04:23:21 PM EST
                              [ Parent ]
                              The regime has had 41 years to accumulate money and hide it in off-shore accounts.  If the guy doesn't have $50 billion laying round he's been slacking.

                              She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
                              by ATinNM on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 04:25:02 PM EST
                              [ Parent ]
                              Ben Wedeman (CNN reporter) is in eastern Libya and just tweeted:

                              Saw police station in Tobruk main square. Was torched. Other buildings sacked. Banks other installations untouched


                              She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
                              by ATinNM on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 02:57:21 PM EST
                              Reports that army battalion in Misurata has joined the demonstrators; chants & celebrations heard.

                              Yesterday there were reports of the city being under attack by aircraft and tanks.  

                              Misurata is the third largest city in Libya and the most prosperous, it is located 210 km to the east of Tripoli.

                              She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                              by ATinNM on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 03:06:35 PM EST
                              Reports Khamis Brigade, led by Khamis al-Qadhafi (whacko's youngest son) has reach Tajura, 14 km from Tripoli.

                              Khamis al-Qadhafi's 32nd Brigade is one of the main regime protection forces. The 'Khamis Brigade' is considered by U.S. diplomats as the most capable of defending the regime.

                              Considering two days ago they were attacking Benghazi this pull-back to Tripoli district, bypassing Misurata, indicates concentration of forces in an attempt to hold Tripoli.  

                              Bad news, indeed, for the revolutionaries in Tripoli.

                              Good news for the rest of Libya as it indicates the regime has suffered a major military defeat and is no longer capable of military action in the rest of the country.

                              She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                              by ATinNM on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 03:31:41 PM EST
                              Explication:

                              Khamis Gaddafi: Most dangerous of all [the sons]. Has his own well organized, trained, funded militia [Khamis Brigade]. Main pro-regime troops fighting now are his.

                              Text in square brackets from me.

                              She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                              by ATinNM on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 04:06:15 PM EST
                              [ Parent ]
                              BREAKING: Leaders of the Wurfla, Libya's largest tribe, issues a war declaration and states its men have "organized a convey of Anger and launched towards Tripoli" to liberate it.

                              Smart of them to do it now.  The Libyan Air Force does not have the capability to conduct operations at night.  

                              She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                              by ATinNM on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 03:36:57 PM EST
                              Reports [Wurfla] are amassing at Azzintan right now

                              Azzintan is 160 km southwest of Tripoli.

                              She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                              by ATinNM on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 03:58:59 PM EST
                              [ Parent ]
                              Reports of Libyan naval forces bombarding Benghazi.

                              There's NO POINT to this.  Slime-assed fuckers committing murder out of hate and spite.

                              She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                              by ATinNM on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 03:45:33 PM EST
                              Change "reports" to "rumors."

                              She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
                              by ATinNM on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 04:11:19 PM EST
                              [ Parent ]
                              Change "rumors" to "nonsense"

                              (my bad)

                              She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                              by ATinNM on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 05:35:51 PM EST
                              [ Parent ]


                              She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
                              by ATinNM on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 03:49:32 PM EST

                              Reports of "hundreds" of Tunisian youths joining armed resistance in Libya

                              Mercenaries appear in Azzawiya, west of Tripoli; citizens on alert.


                              She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
                              by ATinNM on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 03:56:35 PM EST
                              Reports that Ghadaffis son will be giving a press conference soon

                              Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                              by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 04:17:15 PM EST
                              The world is agog.

                              Will he lecture without notes?

                              Will he carry an umbrella?  And if so, what color?

                              Will he have his own PopeMobile™?

                              Will green slime appear above his little shiny bald head, again?

                              She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                              by ATinNM on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 04:19:34 PM EST
                              [ Parent ]
                              Breaking News (BreakingNews) on Twitter
                              Gadhafi's son, Saif al-Islam Gadhafi, to hold press conference in Tripoli - Reuters


                              Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                              by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 04:20:52 PM EST
                              [ Parent ]
                              H'mmmmmm.

                              Baer, a former ME CIA officer, said the source told him that as of Monday Gaddafi had the loyalty of only about 5000" soldiers

                              We deduced regime support was thin yesterday (IIRC) and that's why the mercs.

                              (Score one for ET.)

                              She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                              by ATinNM on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 04:17:32 PM EST
                              Faisal Islam (faisalislam) on Twitter
                              olijaan @faisalislam spoken to Brits in Tripoli hotel: 10,000 at airport so air evac unlikely. pro-Gadafi people now in the hotel. gunfire outside


                              Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                              by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 04:18:02 PM EST
                              Breaking News (BreakingNews) on Twitter
                              Libyan army deploys in 'large numbers' in Sabratah, west of Tripoli, after protesters destroy government buldings - Reuters


                              Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                              by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 04:18:39 PM EST
                              Breaking News (BreakingNews) on Twitter
                              More on TIME report: Gadhafi orders destruction of several oil pipelines, cutting off flow to sea ports - TIME http://ti.me/gNG0mn


                              Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                              by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 04:19:05 PM EST
                              Bastard is heading down Hitler's road:  Nero Decree.

                              The Nero Decree (German: Nerobefehl) was issued by Adolf Hitler on March 19, 1945 ordering the destruction of German infrastructure to prevent their use by Allied forces as they penetrated deep within Germany.


                              She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
                              by ATinNM on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 04:23:32 PM EST
                              [ Parent ]
                              Has Gaddafi unleashed a mercenary force on Libya? | World news | The Guardian

                              There are widespread reports that Muammar Gaddafi has unleashed numerous foreign mercenaries on his people, in a desperate gamble to crush dissent and quell the current uprising.

                              Their origins vary according to speculation: Chad, the Democratic Republic of Congo, Niger, Mali, Sudan and possibly even Asia and eastern Europe.

                              The claims are hard to pin down but persistent. Ali al-Essawi, the Libyan ambassador to India, who resigned in the wake of the crackdown, told Reuters on Tuesday: "They are from Africa, and speak French and other languages."

                              He said their presence had prompted some army troops to switch sides to the opposition. "They are Libyans and they cannot see foreigners killing Libyans so they moved beside the people."



                              Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                              by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 04:24:48 PM EST
                              Has Gaddafi unleashed a mercenary force on Libya?

                              Yes.

                              (SATSQ)

                              She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                              by ATinNM on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 04:26:49 PM EST
                              [ Parent ]
                              BBC News - Middle East and North Africa unrest
                              The BBC Arabic service's Najilaa Abou Merhi says the defection by Libya's interior minister is "significant". It shows Colonel Gadaffi is definitely losing power, she says.


                              Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                              by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 04:28:01 PM EST
                              In just over a week the regime has lost control of 90% of Libyan territory, all but one (Tripoli) of the major cities, lost control of the oil fields, all but one of the tribes have joined the rebellion, the Libyan Army is either dead, disintegrating, or has gone over to the rebels, the strongest military ground force in Libya (Khamis Brigade) has successfully advanced a negative 130 kilometers ...

                              But one fucking bureaucrat switches sides and ...

                              OMG!  "Colonel Gadaffi is definitely losing power!!!!1!!!ONEHUNDREDANDELEVENTYONE!!!11!!!!!!!

                              palm meet face

                              Next they'll uncover the shocking Truth©:  Tony Blair may have some mistakes while PM of UK.

                              She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                              by ATinNM on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 04:54:22 PM EST
                              [ Parent ]
                              There are still hardcore deniers that Blair did anything wrong (apart for hand over to Brown)

                              Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                              by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 05:32:58 PM EST
                              [ Parent ]
                              Private Eye | Official Site
                              WHY was Tony Blair, who usually expects a six-figure sum for speaking engagements these days, so keen to give a rare, extended live interview to Sky News at the start of the Egyptian democracy protests at the end of January?

                              Speaking from Jerusalem in his capacity as Middle East do-gooder, he warned against rushing to oust President Hosni Mubarak and argued that it would be better to move to "a situation where the Egyptian government evolves and you have full, fair and free elections at a certain point in time".

                              Holiday host
                              The former British PM said it was vital not to jeopardise peace in the region. But perhaps there was another reason he was reluctant to withdraw support for Mubarak -



                              Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                              by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 04:32:05 PM EST
                              BBC News - Middle East and North Africa unrest
                              2106: AFP news agency reports that it has obtained official figures putting the death toll from the unrest at 300, including 58 soldiers.


                              Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                              by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 04:34:33 PM EST
                              BBC News - Middle East and North Africa unrest
                              The BBC's Mark Gregory has been looking into the Gaddafi regime's wealth: "Libyan cash abroad is held by an organisation called the Libyan Investment Authority - a fund set up about five years ago to manage the country's oil wealth. It's believed to have around $70bn of assets, including - bizarrely - a stake in the company that owns the British business publication the Financial Times. The fund's investments are thought to focus mainly on Italy, where they include a shareholding in a major bank and in Juventus football team."


                              Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                              by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 04:37:01 PM EST
                              The Libyan Central Bank controls 4,9% of Unicredit while the Libyan Investment Authority controls another 2,5% making Libya the largest shareholder. The LIA controls 2% of Finmeccanica, 2% of Eni, 14,8% of Retelit a telecommunication society. Of course there's the damned soccer club that the BBC hastens to mention: 7,5% of the sports company.

                              Italy is the largest consumer of Libyan oil- a full 32% which accounts for 22,3% of Italy's oil needs. Italy is the number one commercial partner of Libya.

                              Eni is the single largest investor in Libya since 1959.

                              The LIA has 100 billion euro of liquidity to invest and had plans to buy into Impreglio, Telecom, Generali and Mediobanca but the present situation has put that on the back burner.

                              Then there's the 2008 Friendship Treaty which provides for another five billion of investments in Libya.

                              by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 06:17:35 PM EST
                              [ Parent ]
                              New York Times | Italian Energy Company Suspends Gas Pipeline to Libya

                              Concerns rose about Italy's natural gas supplies on Tuesday, after the country's main energy company, ENI, said it had suspended supplies through its Greenstream pipeline, which runs from Libya to Sicily and supplies 10 percent of Italy's natural gas.

                              ENI temporarily closed the pipeline after the supplies feeding into it were disrupted. The ANSA news agency reported that the closure was a precautionary measure after many of ENI's employees in Libya did not show up for work.

                              I note Libyan oil workers said they were going on strike in solidarity with the protest movement.  "Workers not showing up to work" is, at least as I understand it, one aspect of workers being out on strike.

                              She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                              by ATinNM on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 07:03:32 PM EST
                              [ Parent ]
                              Andy Carvin (acarvin) on Twitter
                              Gaddafi and Berlusconi spoke on the phone. AJE: unsourced reports say Gaddafi tried to reassure him, but no one in Rome believes him. #libya


                              Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                              by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 04:37:46 PM EST
                              Andy Carvin (acarvin) on Twitter
                              1. UN rep: We've seen all these statements about a civil war breaking out, that's why we're so concerned less than a minute ago via TweetDeck
                                • UN rep: i was concerned about threats of retaliation in his speech. Very concerned. #libya 1 minute ago via TweetDeck
                                  • UN rep: Anyone inciting populations against themselves is a very dangerous thing, a very bad thing to happen. 2 minutes ago via TweetDeck
                                    • UN rep: UN staff have not reported they've seen plane attacks on civilians, but admittedly we also only have limited people there 30 of them 2 minutes ago via TweetDeck
                                      • UN rep: it's extremely important that UN staff be allowed to continue their work, but the situation is deteriorating. #libya 3 minutes ago via TweetDeck
                                        • UN rep: it raises real questions under UN humanitarian law. #libya 3 minutes ago via TweetDeck
                                          • UN rep: We have felt strongly, and have been pressing, that this must stop. It is totally unacceptable. 4 minutes ago via TweetDeck
                                            • UN rep: ppl have seen many planes and copters overhead, snipers, tanks, but I don't want to go beyond that re: bombing allegations. #libya 4 minutes ago via TweetDeck
                                              • UN rep Lynn Pascoe: We don't have independent #s re: casualties. We simply don't have comprehensive info.


                                              Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                              by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 04:42:52 PM EST
                                              B. Lynn Pascoe is the Under-Secretary-General of the United Nations for Political Affairs.

                                              ...

                                              In his diplomatic career, he has been posted to Moscow, Hong Kong, Beijing, Taipei, and Kuala Lumpur. He speaks Mandarin Chinese.

                                              ...

                                              On February 21, 2010, three days after North Korea declared it would not abandon its nuclear weapons program, Pascoe, who had just visited Pyongyang, strongly defended international food aid to the country. "These are human beings that need the food. It's not the political system. This shouldn't be argued in a political way," he told CNN's Christiane Amanpour.



                                              Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
                                              by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 04:47:22 PM EST
                                              [ Parent ]
                                              Scott Nelson (SNelson_Images) on Twitter
                                              1. Libyan boy in Tobrouk seen wearing looted uniform of Qaddafi Security forces at nighttime protests, #libya #feb17 21 minutes ago via web
                                                • Opposition and tribal gunmen jubilant at many checkpoints in eastern #libya, and welcoming. Many asked for portraits to be taken. #feb17 23 minutes ago via web
                                                  • first of my tweets from free Eastern #Libya #feb17-Crossed the border late this afternoon with colleagues. 25 minutes ago via web


                                                  Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                  by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 04:50:38 PM EST
                                                  European Union reaction to the Libyan situation yesterday:
                                                  High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy/Vice-President of the European Commission Catherine Ashton has tonight left for Egypt, where she will on Tuesday, 22 February, meet the representatives of transitional leadership and the government, members of the opposition and civil society, including representatives of youth and women' associations.

                                                  ...

                                                  Council conclusions on Developments in the Southern Neighbourhood:

                                                  http://www.consilium.europa.eu/uedocs/cms_data/docs/pressdata/EN/foraff/119420.pdf

                                                  Videos from Today's visit to Egypt, including press conference: http://tvnewsroom.consilium.europa.eu/story/index/story_id/15210/media_type/video

                                                  Videos of yesterday's Foreign Affairs Council meeting and press conference: http://tvnewsroom.consilium.europa.eu/story/index/story_id/16155/media_id/38377

                                                  Council: Support for the peoples of the South Mediterranean

                                                  The Council condemned the ongoing repression against demonstrators in Libya and encouraged "all sides" to start a "national Libyan-led dialogue", which would bring a constructive future for the country and for the people.

                                                  The ministers welcomed the decision of Bahrain's authorities to "open a national dialogue" and urged the Yemeni authorities to do the same.

                                                  They confirmed their solidarity with the Tunisian people and the EU's commitment to contributing to the country's "socio-economic development and institution-building".

                                                  The Council encouraged the transitional authorities of Egypt to set "a clear timetable and steps for constitutional reform", that being a necessary precondition for free and fair parliamentary and presidential elections. However, the future of the state, emphasised Catherine Ashton, "lies firmly in the hands of the Egyptian people" and "we are not going to dictate the outcomes or impose any solutions."

                                                  Support measures

                                                  "This is our neighbourhood. We need to be ambitious, we need to be effective and we need to be integrated," underlined High Representative Ashton.



                                                  Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
                                                  by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 05:12:07 PM EST
                                                  Barbara Plett (BBCBarbaraPlett) on Twitter
                                                  1. ...in fact just short suspension of SC Libya mtg, resuming again, looks like they'll agree text, influenced by "strong" Arab League... 7 minutes ago via HootSuite
                                                    • ....we are dealing with it in this case because the Libyans asked for it (so no precedent set) 10 minutes ago via HootSuite
                                                      • #UN SCouncil broken up without agreement on Libya statement, diplos say China wants to insert para saying internal matter but.... 10 minutes ago via HootSuite
                                                        • ...as expected, no mention of no-fly zone in pending #UN SC on Libya, not even brought up for discussion 32 minutes ago via HootSuite
                                                          • French UN Ambo: general will for strong SC Libya statement, will use Ban ki-Moon & Arab League statements as reference... 33 minutes ago via HootSuite
                                                            • #UN Ban ki-Moon rep, dodging questions about no-fly zone: that's for the SC, it's not up to the UN's political dept to impose one! about 1 hour ago via HootSuite
                                                              • #UN Ban ki-Moon rep: Gaddafi speech huge concern: the calls for some people to attack others dangerous, also the threats of retaliation about 1 hour ago via HootSuite
                                                                • In address to SCouncil Libya #UN Ambo denies use of planes against protestors, but admits East of country out of govt control


                                                                Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 05:39:08 PM EST
                                                                Sultan Al Qassemi (SultanAlQassemi) on Twitter
                                                                1. Al Jazeera: Another battleship that refused Gaddafi's orders to shell Benghazi is now off the coast of Malta with a possible technical fault 9 minutes ago via web
                                                                  • Al Jazeera breaking: @AJArabic Correspondent: A Libyan battleship arrives in Malta after refusing Gaddafi's orders to shell Benghazi #Libya


                                                                  Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                  by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 05:41:47 PM EST
                                                                  Having already been bit once by this story (see above):

                                                                  Libya ain't got no battleships.

                                                                  Ships (1985)

                                                                      * 1 × Vosper Mk.7 frigate, Dat Assarwari, (Built in UK, 1×114 mm Mk.8 gun, 2×40 mm/70 AA guns, 2×35mm/90 Oerlikon, 2×Seacat SAM, 1×Limbo Mk.10 ASW mortar. Upgraded in the 80s with Aspide SAM, OTOMAT SSMs, new search radar and other equipment)
                                                                      * 4 × Assad class corvettes (Built in Italy, 1×76 and 2×35 mm guns, 6 tls, 4 OTOMAT)
                                                                      * 4 × Nanuchka class corvettes
                                                                      * Some light units of Osa and Jaguar class (16×SS-12 missiles and 2×40 mm)
                                                                      * 3 × Polnocny class landing ships
                                                                      * One LSD ship
                                                                      * Some minor vessels

                                                                  And, no, the LSD ship isn't to supply the Gadaffi family with "inspiration" for their public appearances/speeches.  It's a carrier/support ship for amphibious operations.

                                                                  She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                                                                  by ATinNM on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 05:48:36 PM EST
                                                                  [ Parent ]
                                                                  Shaista Aziz (shaistaAziz) on Twitter
                                                                  1. AJE: Unconfirmed reports guns were being dumped in to the sea from the Libyan navy ship off the coast of Malta #Feb17 #Libya 14 minutes ago via web
                                                                    • AJE: The Italian army is concerned at the arrival of a Libyan naval ship of the coast of Malta. Could become a security issue #Feb17 #Libya


                                                                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 05:51:34 PM EST
                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                    There are two ships off the coast of Malta. The question is if they are seeking asylum or are extending Libya's territorial waters ;)
                                                                    by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 05:56:37 PM EST
                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                    Saw some photos earlier, of ships from the Libyan Navy that a reporter described as battleships,  but they were quite obviously landing ships, and it wasn't the ones that were off the coast of Malta either, they were historical pictures.

                                                                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 05:53:40 PM EST
                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                    I think reporters rules are if its painted grey and it appears to have a gun on it, it's a battleship. Should make them do national service so they'd know :D

                                                                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 05:58:39 PM EST
                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                    Battleship:

                                                                    Not a Battleship:



                                                                    She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                                                                    by ATinNM on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 06:10:01 PM EST
                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                    Thinks Father Ted and Cows

                                                                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 06:19:10 PM EST
                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                    So a paid journalist screwed-up even worse than I did.

                                                                    (cool)

                                                                    :-)

                                                                    She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                                                                    by ATinNM on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 05:59:11 PM EST
                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                    Sultan Al Qassemi (SultanAlQassemi) on Twitter
                                                                    1. Bel Qasim, the Sec Gen of the People's Commitee: Drivers are scared to take food to Benghazi because the are people on hallucinogens #Libya 3 minutes ago via web
                                                                      • Al Jazeera now carrying Libyan State TV press conference by the Secretary General of the People's Committee about the current event in Libya


                                                                      Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                      by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 05:42:11 PM EST
                                                                      Rawya Rageh (RawyaRageh) on Twitter
                                                                      Police Col on #Libya's state TV says #Benghazi man sparked unrest by trying to release criminals from prison #Libya #Feb17


                                                                      Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                      by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 05:49:50 PM EST
                                                                      [ Parent ]
                                                                      Rawya Rageh (RawyaRageh) on Twitter
                                                                      1. All speakers in #Libya's state TV presser keep repeating that 'assailants' & arrested men are on hallucination pills #Feb17 2 minutes ago via Mobile Web
                                                                        • #Libya state TV shows footage of Egyptian passports, discs, cell phones (confiscated from detained men) #Feb17 5 minutes ago via Mobile Web
                                                                          • #Libya says it arrested Egyptians, Tunisians, Algerians trained to 'sow chaos' #Feb17 6 minutes ago via Mobile Web
                                                                            • Colonel in uniform on #Libya state TV reciting poetry praising #Gaddafi, describes him as solid as Africa's dark mountains 8 minutes ago via Mobile Web
                                                                              • 'All agents working in Libya get paid by America, have communication devices, and even doctors & surgeons' says Gen. on #Libya state TV 12 minutes ago via Mobile Web
                                                                                • Asked about defecting pilots, airforce gen says 'these are lies. Planes were on mission, malfunctioned & had to land' #Libya


                                                                                Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 06:21:30 PM EST
                                                                                [ Parent ]
                                                                                Rawya Rageh (RawyaRageh) on Twitter
                                                                                Police says 2 Islamic emirates formed in eastern region, involving forme Bin Laden aide released from Gitmo #Libya #Feb17


                                                                                Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 06:24:05 PM EST
                                                                                [ Parent ]
                                                                                Now I understand where these drugs are coming from in America.

                                                                                Santorum: WI Protesters Are 'Acting Like Their Drug Is Being Taken Away' | TPMDC

                                                                                Former Pennsylvania Senator and potential 2012 presidential candidate Rick Santorum doesn't have a very high opinion of the union workers protesting in Wisconsin. "They are acting like their drug is being taken away from them," Santorum told Republicans in Spartanburg, South Carolina.


                                                                                Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 06:29:23 PM EST
                                                                                [ Parent ]
                                                                                They are acting like his contributors act when their taxes are raised.

                                                                                "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
                                                                                by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 07:29:53 PM EST
                                                                                [ Parent ]
                                                                                Live Blog - Libya Feb 23  Al Jazeera  (Time + GMT + 2)

                                                                                12.06am: Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi addressed the nation on Libyan state television on Tuesday. He blamed foreign powers for the current unrest in his country and said the protesters are on hallucinogenic drugs.

                                                                                Now that Gaddafi has broached the subject of hallucinogenic drugs -- does the word "projection" occur to anyone else?

                                                                                "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
                                                                                by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 05:49:52 PM EST
                                                                                The next post at the above link:

                                                                                12:26am: Libyan government spokesman gives press conference outlining the vision of Gaddafi's eldest son, Saif al-Islam. Plans for reform include boosting payments to the unemployed. Also announces the formation of a committee to investigate events over the past couple of weeks. He says people "will be shocked by the extent of the distortion committed by Arab and foreign press and media.

                                                                                The spokesman goes on to attack "the brothers in Qatar".

                                                                                   We used to respect the brothers in Qatar, but they have dedicated Al Jazeera to create lies and provocation on behalf of rich Egyptians who live in Qatar. This is unacceptable to us.

                                                                                    They were upset because President Gaddafi attacked the US president, who has bases inside Qatar. Their hope was to burn Libya, like they burned Tunisia and Egypt. But Libya is not Tunisia or Egypt - and we will remain strong.

                                                                                    As for Libyans who live abroad and are provoking Libyans at home to burn their country. We tell you to stop. You and your families are looking from abroad, waiting for instructions and low pay from your bosses.



                                                                                "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
                                                                                by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 05:56:14 PM EST
                                                                                [ Parent ]
                                                                                Dima Khatib أنا ديمة (Dima_Khatib) on Twitter
                                                                                1. Defected Interior Minister is an old buddy of Gaddafi's since 1969 revolution. Gaddafi praised him in his speech #libya #feb17 6 minutes ago via web
                                                                                  • Gaddafi claimed in speech: interior minister kidnaped & shot by Benghazi inhabitants. But Minister now says Gaddafi tried to kill him #libya 9 minutes ago via web
                                                                                    • Defected Interior Min Abdel Fattah Younes was mentioned by Gaddafi in his speech, supposedly as having disappeared in Benghazi #libya #feb17


                                                                                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 06:02:04 PM EST
                                                                                    Sultan Al Qassemi (SultanAlQassemi) on Twitter
                                                                                    Al Jazeera: UN Security Council condemns violence in Libya & calls for the holding those responsible accountable #Libya


                                                                                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 06:08:04 PM EST
                                                                                    Twitter / Francesco: @Dima_Khatib Matteo Salvin ...
                                                                                    Matteo Salvini (EU Parliament, Lega Nord): "those are fundamentalists that will transform #Libya into an Islamic emirate"


                                                                                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 06:13:03 PM EST
                                                                                    Trying to confirm report Peru has suspended diplomatic ties with Libya.

                                                                                    She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
                                                                                    by ATinNM on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 06:34:32 PM EST
                                                                                    Chili criticized Gadaffi while Ortega praised him.
                                                                                    by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 06:38:53 PM EST
                                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                                    Ive seen similar reports.

                                                                                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 06:39:42 PM EST
                                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                                    Sydney Morning Herald:

                                                                                    2310 GMT: Peru suspends diplomatic ties with Libya over crackdown.


                                                                                    She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
                                                                                    by ATinNM on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 06:45:03 PM EST
                                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                                    Captain Naser of Afriqiyah (Libyan State Airlines) stated on Al Jazeera that he flew FOREIGN mercenaries into Benghazi he did not know until landed.  He has now quit the airline and urging all other pilots to follow his example.

                                                                                    She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
                                                                                    by ATinNM on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 06:51:29 PM EST
                                                                                    A witness declared that he had seen military jeeps with mercenaries and Gadaffi's special forces driving around Tripoli firing at random. The mercenaries who do not speak Arabic nor are familiar with the opearations zones need to be guided by Libyan forces.

                                                                                    According to one commentator on the lack of action by the  Organization of African Unity, it should be remembered that Gadaffi has financed at least ten mercenary wars in the last decades in Africa. He is feared and is known to be well introduced in the world of African mercenaries.

                                                                                    by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 07:04:03 PM EST
                                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                                    Note in footing of pro-Gadaffi demonstrations many demonstrators are cross-armed. They appear mechanic and markedly in contrast with individual behavior during spontaneous demonstrations. (You see a lot of that in "improvised" pro-Berlusconi demonstrations...)
                                                                                    by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 07:11:15 PM EST
                                                                                    BBC News - Middle East and North Africa unrest
                                                                                    Reuters news agency is reporting that Senegal has severed diplomatic ties with Iran, saying Tehran supplied rebels with weapons which killed Senegalese troops.


                                                                                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 07:39:25 PM EST
                                                                                    US official Nicolas Burns holding his own against agressive allegations by the interviewer on al Jazeera.

                                                                                    One point on the use of American arms in the hands of Libya could just as well be a case of triangulation, a typical ploy to get around sanctions or plain refusals. I recall that in the Eighties, Americans managed to sell enourmous stashes of Russian arms to Saddam Hussein through third nations. Even if Gadaffi has American arms, they needn't come directly from US suppliers.

                                                                                    by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 07:44:06 PM EST
                                                                                    Qaddafi's Grip Falters as His Forces Take On Protesters - NYTimes.com
                                                                                    TOBRUK, Libya -- Vowing to track down and kill protesters "house by house," Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi of Libya tightened his grip on the capital of Tripoli Tuesday, but the eastern half of the country was slipping beyond his control.


                                                                                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 07:44:40 PM EST
                                                                                    Qaddafi's Grip Falters as His Forces Take On Protesters - NYTimes.com
                                                                                    A bloody crackdown drove protesters from the streets of Tripoli, where residents described a state of terror. The independent group Human Rights Watch said it had confirmed 62 deaths in two hospitals after a rampage Monday night, when witnesses said groups of heavily armed militiamen and African mercenaries cruised the streets in pickup trucks spraying crowds with machine gun fire. The death toll was likely higher; one witness said militia forces appeared to be using vans to cart away bodies.


                                                                                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 07:45:21 PM EST
                                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                                    Any suggestions for a nation or a coalition of two or more nations that could enstate a de facto no fly zone?

                                                                                    The US is out of the question.

                                                                                    I don't see the UN moving in time- and I understand it would be a state of necessity to justify an illegal act. Would it be opportune despite calls by many Libyan elite?
                                                                                    Would it be effective? What states have the means and tech to pull it off?

                                                                                    by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 07:56:23 PM EST
                                                                                    Well in theory, Italy and France could do it between them, you'd need Tunisian Airbases for The French to run a reasonable loiter time in country (Although aren't there French military bases in Chad?) foreign Legion or something similar? and Malta would be a decent base for Italy (Although it doesn't take that much off the round trip times) For Italy to run any effective CAP you'd need to run Tankers up fairly close to the coast, unless you were to rely entirely on the 24 F16s in the airforces inventory. its Typhoons don't have the range with any useful loiter time.

                                                                                    the limiting factor is that there are only 4 Airborne control aircraft between the two countries, so the loss of one or two through combat or mechanical problems could hand a fairly large advantage to the locals. You'd also need to suppress the ground based AA missiles, unless you can be convinced that all the heavy modern stuff was in the hands of  the rebels.

                                                                                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

                                                                                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 08:30:01 PM EST
                                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                                    I don't see the political will on Italy's part. (We will probably discover in 20 years that Berlusconi had been aiding Gadaffi.)

                                                                                    The only European countries that have clear stances are GB and Germany.

                                                                                    by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 02:20:53 AM EST
                                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                                    If the archives in Tripoli aren't destroyed, we may find out a lot sooner.

                                                                                    (or by "we" do you mean most Italians via the Italian media?)

                                                                                    by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 02:32:34 AM EST
                                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                                    i dont see the political will anywhere, you would have thought the Italiian government were in a situation where they would have to pick sides. post revolution an unhappy winner in libya could cause all sorts of damage with its investments  and/or withdrawl of fuel supplies. if the finance minister isnt hammering on berlus door crying death disaster and international bondholders like a shakesperian witch then he isnt doing his job.

                                                                                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 03:39:33 AM EST
                                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                                    ceebs:
                                                                                    you would have thought the Italiian government were in a situation where they would have to pick sides. post revolution an unhappy winner in libya could cause all sorts of damage with its investments  and/or withdrawl of fuel supplies
                                                                                    This is the reason why the EU and US have been so timid in their reaction to the revolts - if you come out in force for one side or the other you can find yourself in an uncomfortable diplomatic position if they lose out.

                                                                                    Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
                                                                                    by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 04:13:58 AM EST
                                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                                    true

                                                                                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 04:34:49 AM EST
                                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                                    Not in this case, because if the lunatic wins, the rest of the world has him isolated. At the very least, you've become an adversary to a lunatic who's shown his true colors.

                                                                                    I don't believe you can lose by picking sides in this case.

                                                                                    "Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anas Nin

                                                                                    by Crazy Horse on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 06:37:34 AM EST
                                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                                    Except that in this case you're dealing with a lunatic who has already been isolated once before, and managed to get out of it. Though in this case, the chances of his winning don't look very high, so if you're going to take any risk at all this looks like the time.
                                                                                    by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 07:00:30 AM EST
                                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                                    In that sense, waffling about Mubarak made more sense.

                                                                                    But in the case of Libya now we're potentially talking about actually going in with humanitarian intervention.

                                                                                    It is unfortunate humanitarian intervention has been given such a bad name by the neocons in the past decade.

                                                                                    Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman

                                                                                    by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 07:13:54 AM EST
                                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                                    What do we have the EU battlegroups for, if not this?

                                                                                    The current readiness units are the Nordic Battlegroup (Sweden+Finland+some more) and Battlegroup 107 (Netherlands+Germany+Finland). These together comprise a reinforced mechanized brigade, which should be enough. Air support could be provided by SWAFRAP, if we get bases and are lended tankers. If we say go now, we could be in theater in 10 days, SWAFRAP much quicker.

                                                                                    I say go for it, but I certainly don't think the Swedish government has balls enough for it.

                                                                                    Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

                                                                                    by Starvid on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 08:05:27 AM EST
                                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                                    Would you mind refactoring the comments in this thread about outside intervention in Libya into a diary? You're the resident war nerd here...

                                                                                    Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
                                                                                    by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 08:29:57 AM EST
                                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                                    CONSILIUM - Security & Defence
                                                                                    EU Common Security and Defence Policy: how does it work?
                                                                                    The EU can decide to launch civilian and military missions to ensure peace and security in troubled regions.


                                                                                    Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
                                                                                    by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 08:37:53 AM EST
                                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                                    Depends what you mean "this."

                                                                                    If you mean facing off Ghadaffi's troops, don't think we're there yet. If you mean preventing his air force, including choppers, flying, OK, there's a start.  If you mean covering humanitarian aid supplies as well, why not?

                                                                                    If i was an EU commander, god forbid, i would already be finalizing insertion exercises, but we're a long way from that.

                                                                                    "Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anas Nin

                                                                                    by Crazy Horse on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 08:46:34 AM EST
                                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                                    It's one thing to put the military on alert (as reportedly the Italians have been for some days) and another to launch any action. You need a political decision for that.

                                                                                    What would be inexcusable would be for the political leadership to decide something needs to be done, and the military coming back with "ASAP is in two weeks' time".

                                                                                    Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman

                                                                                    by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 08:57:26 AM EST
                                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                                    they keep jabbering on about how many clandestines are going to invade, (bossi sez send them to germany, lol), and i keep thinking that's the least of their problems...

                                                                                    'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty
                                                                                    by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 06:45:52 AM EST
                                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                                    I think the EU from Malta and the Tunisian air base in Sfax is it. This means a joint UK/France operation.

                                                                                    The problem with the EU is that is has doggedly refused itself a capacity to act outside NATO.

                                                                                    The UN and the Arab League have met to discuss this. When is the Euromediterranean partnership meeting?

                                                                                    Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman

                                                                                    by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 04:12:18 AM EST
                                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                                    Does snow and a holiday explain why the UN is taking so long? 48 hours after the Libyan Ambassador to the UN came out calling Gaddafi genocidal, all we have is "concern" and "condemnation".

                                                                                    Global Arab Network | Libyan Ambassador to UN urges international community to stop genocide | Libya Politics

                                                                                    In a press conference called for on a UN holiday and a snowy storm, Dabbashi said that after the kind of "declaration of war" against the Libyan people declared by Gaddafi's son yesterday, "we find it impossible to stay silent and we have to transfer the voice of the Libyan people to the world."


                                                                                    Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
                                                                                    by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 04:08:37 AM EST
                                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                                    According to the Libyan Mission to the UN, Dabbashi  is the "Ambassador, Deputy Permanent Representative". The Permanent Representative himself still seems to support Gaddafi.
                                                                                    by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 04:30:28 AM EST
                                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                                    Okay

                                                                                    Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
                                                                                    by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 04:31:03 AM EST
                                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                                    Well there are rumours that China is being somewhat difficult.  They have concerns that a precedent may be set that would allow outside countries to interfere in its internal affairs, say if tibet revolted. the ambasadorial revolt appears to have provided some logical cover for them not to block.

                                                                                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 04:31:44 AM EST
                                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                                    Gaddafi's speech apparently contained references to Waco, Tinananmen, and Yeltsin's bombing of the Duma (which, he reminded his audience, was applauded by The West™).

                                                                                    So I'm not surprised that China is less than happy about setting a precedent.

                                                                                    Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman

                                                                                    by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 04:40:00 AM EST
                                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                                    Spain has strongly increased its military capabilities during the last few years. Including a carrier.

                                                                                    Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
                                                                                    by Starvid on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 07:55:38 AM EST
                                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                                    The Uk has a carrier or two, they can't have been sold yet and I dont think they can have actually have sold the aircraft on ebay yet.

                                                                                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 08:18:48 AM EST
                                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                                    DJ Meddi (DJMeddi) on Twitter
                                                                                    Its sad the Libyan channel has Pro Gaddafi protesters tapped in 1989 trying to make everyone believe its all NEW! LOL @ Gaddafi #Libya


                                                                                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 08:34:02 PM EST
                                                                                    Luke Bozier (LukeBozier) on Twitter
                                                                                    The President of Nicaragua is an idiot, quite clearly. He says Ghaddafi is 'fighting a great battle'.


                                                                                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 08:40:13 PM EST
                                                                                    Andy Carvin (acarvin) on Twitter
                                                                                    This is one amazing photo. People of all ages, including kids, on an abandoned tank in Benghazi: http://flic.kr/p/9kfQJE #flickr


                                                                                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 08:45:50 PM EST
                                                                                    Youssef Sawani, senior aide to #Gaddafi's son Saif al-Islam, resigns to protest against violence sweeping the country http://aje.me/hUW1L6

                                                                                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 03:26:56 AM EST
                                                                                    Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah announces series of housing and other benefits ahead of return to country after receiving treatment abroad

                                                                                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 04:26:11 AM EST
                                                                                    The Guardian's @martinchulov is now in Benghazi #Libya - reports comms are down and hospitals are full

                                                                                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 04:36:21 AM EST
                                                                                    Okay, I get not wanting to intervene militarily, but why is the EU not airlifting humanitarian aid and medical supplies to Bengazi?

                                                                                    Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
                                                                                    by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 04:41:32 AM EST
                                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                                    i should thibk for the same reason.  that it could be sold by the government as proof that the colonising powers were secretly behind the uprising.

                                                                                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 04:47:08 AM EST
                                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                                    They can also send medical supplies to Tripoli.

                                                                                    Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
                                                                                    by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 04:49:46 AM EST
                                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                                    that would be sensible

                                                                                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 05:13:43 AM EST
                                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                                    Or a suicide mission, depending on Gaddafi's state of mind and his ability to control the mercenaries he's unleashed.

                                                                                    Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
                                                                                    by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 05:48:47 AM EST
                                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                                    There have been reports of "security forces" shooting doctors treating protesters, so a plane full of humanitarian aid flying into Tripoli could be seized -- or worse.

                                                                                    "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
                                                                                    by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 10:48:24 AM EST
                                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                                    Network of Free Ulema in #Libya, group of religious scholars, say that they endorse and support "new Libyan government" formed in Benghazi..

                                                                                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 04:43:48 AM EST
                                                                                    Question: could Libya split back into Cyrenaica, Tripolitania and Fezzan?

                                                                                    Basically, the revolt now holds Cyrenaica, Gaddafi holds Tripolitania and Fezzan is the outback.

                                                                                    Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman

                                                                                    by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 04:49:16 AM EST
                                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                                    how would that leave the three countries oil wealth and thus the economy?  



                                                                                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

                                                                                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 05:12:00 AM EST
                                                                                    [ Parent ]
                                                                                    30% of Libya in Hands of Youth Movement | Informed Comment

                                                                                    If we begin at the eastern border of Libya with Egypt this morning and move west, we find the country is now divided in two, with the east largely in the hands of dissidents and the West still under the thumb of Qaddafi's security forces. The border with Egypt is in the hands of the Youth Movement, and the Egyptian government at the Bedouin village of Sallum (pop. 14,000) is allowing the border to remain open, permitting supplies and medicine to flow into the eastern cities. This Egyptian policy is tacit support for the revolt.

                                                                                    Then Tobruk is in dissident hands, with what soldiers there are having joined the revolt and now directing traffic and keeping order for the new, civic leadership. Tobruk, a city of 300,000 (about 5% of Libya's population), is the last major stop in the east on the way to the Egyptian border.



                                                                                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 05:16:11 AM EST
                                                                                    Martin Chulov (martinchulov) on Twitter
                                                                                    1. Air force major tells me of witnessing 4k african mercenaries arriving from feb 14 'that's why we turned against them' 7 minutes ago via txt
                                                                                      • Looted weapons still arriving . 3 african mercenaries being held prisoner upstairs. #libya #feb17 18 minutes ago via txt
                                                                                        • Amazing scenes in yard of ransacked police hq in benghazi. Massive armoury looted from barracks by defecting troops. #libya 20 minutes ago via txt
                                                                                          • Camp site set up at benghazi. Large anti-ghadaffi demo here. Effigies of him hanging from looted govt buildings. 35 minutes ago via txt
                                                                                            • Old independence flag still flying above looted and scorched court house in central benghazi. #libya,#feb17. 40 minutes ago via txt
                                                                                              • Phones and email not working. Can only send and receive text messages. about 1 hour ago via txt
                                                                                                • Seen anti aircraft shell casings on streets in benghazi #libya. Damage on nearby buildings shows they were widely used.


                                                                                                Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                                by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 05:24:20 AM EST
                                                                                                Martin Chulov (martinchulov) on Twitter
                                                                                                Mass defection of the military here. Beyond a critical mass.


                                                                                                Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                                by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 05:31:38 AM EST
                                                                                                [ Parent ]
                                                                                                "PM says we're doing everything to protect GB nationals in Libya & help them leave" > Everything except protect them and help them leave.

                                                                                                Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                                by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 05:36:54 AM EST
                                                                                                A long debate going on in the House of Deputies in Italy following The Minister of Foreign Affairs' speech. Frattini finally took a strong critical position against Gadaffi.

                                                                                                According to la Repubblica there are three Italian military ships on their way to the area, the destroyer Mimbelli, and two LPD's San Marco and San Giorgio.

                                                                                                by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 05:55:52 AM EST
                                                                                                Italy sees 300,000 fleeing Libya turmoil-minister - AlertNet
                                                                                                About a third of Libya's population, or 2.5 million people, are immigrants from sub-Saharan Africa who could flee if Muammar Gaddafi's government falls, he told Corriere della Sera newspaper.

                                                                                                "We know what to expect when the Libyan national system falls -- an abnormal wave of 200,000 to 300,000 immigrants. Or rather, 10 times the Albanian (refugee) phenomenon that we saw in the '90s," Frattini said.

                                                                                                "These are estimates, and on the low side ... It is a Biblical exodus."

                                                                                                Interior ministers from Italy, Cyprus, France, Greece, Malta and Spain will meet on Wednesday in Rome to set a common policy on the upheaval in North Africa and make a recommendation to the European Commission.

                                                                                                They expect 5% of the population to make it to Italy?

                                                                                                Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
                                                                                                by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 09:00:26 AM EST
                                                                                                [ Parent ]


                                                                                                "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
                                                                                                by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 10:57:29 AM EST
                                                                                                [ Parent ]
                                                                                                LPD San Giorgio Class Landing Platform Dock - Naval Technology

                                                                                                The ships provide roll-on/roll-off landing capability for land embarkation; air lift through the use off high capacity aircraft such as Chinook-type helicopters; and transportation by sea to shore, using the ship's own systems and landing ships for landing on unprepared shores.


                                                                                                "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
                                                                                                by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 11:03:59 AM EST
                                                                                                [ Parent ]
                                                                                                Two commercial ships evacuate 3,000 Turks from Libya's pro-democracy uprising. http://apne.ws/fBdiH3 - VW

                                                                                                Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                                by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 07:05:15 AM EST
                                                                                                Sarkozy signs deal with Gaddafi for update to Mirage F1s being used by LAF. http://usat.ly/eA8tdJ Nice pic. locn same as last night speech

                                                                                                Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                                by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 07:08:45 AM EST
                                                                                                That was four years ago, upon Ghadaffi's visit to Paris in 2007, shortly after Sarkozy's election...
                                                                                                by Bernard on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 02:48:30 PM EST
                                                                                                [ Parent ]
                                                                                                "horrible crimes that are unacceptable and must not remain without consequences" EU President statement on #Libya http://bit.ly/ek7PYz

                                                                                                Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                                by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 07:12:19 AM EST
                                                                                                alex thomson (alextomo) on Twitter
                                                                                                1. Man with weals across his bk. Says pro-Gaddafi people dragged him from car and beat him y'day in Tripoli about 1 hour ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®
                                                                                                  • Khaled, Algerian working in Tripoli says army control by day - protesters and gun fire by night about 2 hours ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®
                                                                                                    • Busloads of Tunisians and Algerians singing as they head into Tunisia from Libya


                                                                                                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 08:34:51 AM EST
                                                                                                    alex thomson (alextomo) on Twitter
                                                                                                    1. Consensus is army control for first 40m other side - after that: "de plus en plus dangereux" twds Tripoli 10 minutes ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®
                                                                                                      • Tunisia laying on buses, food, medics at border. People walking across look pretty relieved


                                                                                                      Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                                      by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 08:36:13 AM EST
                                                                                                      [ Parent ]
                                                                                                      ReliefWebMigrants Fleeing Violence in Libya Begin Arriving in Tunisia
                                                                                                      IOM staff at Tunisia's border with Libya report that migrants have begun to cross into Tunisia in efforts to escape the violence in the North African country and to get back to their home countries.

                                                                                                      Although most of the arrivals have largely been of Tunisian nationals, migrants of various nationalities have been crossing the border into Tunisia's Medenine Governorate requesting assistance to go back home.

                                                                                                      An IOM staffer says local Red Crescent officials reported to him and a UNHCR official on Tuesday that in addition to several thousand returning Tunisians, there were some Lebanese, Turkish, Syrian and three German nationals who had arrived asking for onward travel assistance.



                                                                                                      Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
                                                                                                      by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 08:57:52 AM EST
                                                                                                      ReliefWeb » PHR and Human Rights Groups Call for Immediate Action in Libya
                                                                                                      We, the undersigned non-governmental, human rights, and humanitarian organizations, urge you to mobilize the United Nations and the international community and take immediate action to halt the mass atrocities now being perpetrated by the Libyan government against its own people. The inexcusable silence cannot continue.

                                                                                                      As you know, in the past several days, Colonel Moammar Gadhafi's forces are estimated to have deliberately killed hundreds of peaceful protesters and innocent bystanders across the country. In the city of Benghazi alone, one doctor reported seeing at least 200 dead bodies. Witnesses report that a mixture of special commandos, foreign mercenaries and regime loyalists have attacked demonstrators with knives, assault rifles and heavy-caliber weapons.

                                                                                                      Snipers are shooting peaceful protesters. Artillery and helicopter gunships have been used against crowds of demonstrators. Thugs armed with hammers and swords attacked families in their homes. Hospital officials report numerous victims shot in the head and chest, and one struck on the head by an anti-aircraft missile. Tanks are reported to be on the streets and crushing innocent bystanders. Witnesses report that mercenaries are shooting indiscriminately from helicopters and from the top of roofs. Women and children were seen jumping off Giuliana Bridge in Benghazi to escape. Many of them were killed by the impact of hitting the water, while others were drowned. The Libyan regime is seeking to hide all of these crimes by shutting off contact with the outside world. Foreign journalists have been refused entry. Internet and phone lines have been cut or disrupted.



                                                                                                      Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
                                                                                                      by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 09:01:25 AM EST
                                                                                                      Martin Chulov (martinchulov) on Twitter
                                                                                                      1. Protesters stole bull dozers to break into the army base. At least a dozen still wedged against walls. #libya half a minute ago via txt
                                                                                                        • Ghaddafi's house in benghazi ransacked by looters. #feb17 #libya 8 minutes ago via txt
                                                                                                          • Ghaddafi's parade ground inside the base destroyed. Army defectors circling sts in pick-ups. Still in uniform. 14 minutes ago via txt
                                                                                                            • At main army base in benghazi. A slaughter house. Hundreds died here. Base destroyed. Blood still on the streets. #libya. 17 minutes ago via txt
                                                                                                              • Intensive care unit in benghazi still full of casualties from weekend govt crack down. #libya.


                                                                                                              Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                                              by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 11:14:27 AM EST
                                                                                                              Live Blog - Libya Feb 23 | Al Jazeera Blogs

                                                                                                              5.25pm: A National Libyan Airline plane is circling the airspace off the coast of Malta, Al Jazeera's Cal Perry reports from Valletta. "The plane is saying they are running out of fuel and need to land .. they are negotiating with the runway about landing," Perry says.

                                                                                                              But soldiers have been deployed and authorities are "nervous" about what could be on board the plane, he adds.

                                                                                                              Live Blog - Libya Feb 23 | Al Jazeera Blogs

                                                                                                              6.15pm: A private Libyan jet that was prevented from landing at Beirut's airport was carrying on board the wife of one of  Gaddafi's sons, Voice of Lebanon radio reported Wednesday.

                                                                                                              Several Libyan regime figures could have been among the plane's passengers, the radio station said.

                                                                                                              6.10pm: Government sources say Muammar Gaddafi's daughter was on board the National Libyan Airlines plane that tried to land in Malta on Thursday, Al Jazeera's Cal Perrry reports from Valletta.



                                                                                                              Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                                              by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 11:30:53 AM EST
                                                                                                              ceebs:
                                                                                                              A private Libyan jet that was prevented from landing at Beirut's airport was carrying on board the wife of one of  Gaddafi's sons
                                                                                                              So, where did the jet end up landing?

                                                                                                              Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
                                                                                                              by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 11:52:13 AM EST
                                                                                                              [ Parent ]
                                                                                                              Libyan newspaper reports that air force plane has crashed near Benghazi after its crew bailed out, from Reuters

                                                                                                              Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                                              by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 11:32:26 AM EST
                                                                                                              Live Blog - Libya Feb 23 | Al Jazeera Blogs
                                                                                                              4.27pm: A Libyan airforce plane has crashed near Benghazi after the crew bailed out, the country's Quryna Newspaper reports. The newspaper said the crew had orders to bomb Benghazi, but refused to carry them out.


                                                                                                              Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                                              by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 11:33:50 AM EST
                                                                                                              [ Parent ]
                                                                                                              Jonathan Haynes (JonathanHaynes) on Twitter
                                                                                                              Swedish paper Expressen quotes #Libya's ex-justice minister Abdel-Jalil saying "I have proof that Gadhafi gave the order about Lockerbie."


                                                                                                              Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                                              by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 11:39:41 AM EST
                                                                                                              EU is drawing up a range of sanctions and legal threats against Libyan government and individual members of the regieme according to AFP

                                                                                                              Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                                              by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 11:57:23 AM EST
                                                                                                              WTF?

                                                                                                              BREAKING: been told by a caller, they are digging in Benghazi finding prisoners alive underground so far around 1500 #Libya #Feb17
                                                                                                              by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 12:05:13 PM EST
                                                                                                              Digging where?

                                                                                                              Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
                                                                                                              by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 12:28:01 PM EST
                                                                                                              [ Parent ]
                                                                                                              Birka and/or Benghazi.

                                                                                                              Information flow still very noisy.

                                                                                                              She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                                                                                                              by ATinNM on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 12:49:02 PM EST
                                                                                                              [ Parent ]
                                                                                                              Reliable source says it was Benghazi.

                                                                                                              She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
                                                                                                              by ATinNM on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 12:51:37 PM EST
                                                                                                              [ Parent ]
                                                                                                              I mean, was Gaddafi keeping people buried alive in catacombs, or something?

                                                                                                              Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
                                                                                                              by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 01:06:56 PM EST
                                                                                                              [ Parent ]
                                                                                                              Reports say "Underground prisons"  and some of the people "had not seen daylight for years."

                                                                                                              Waiting to see/find some kind of confirmation.

                                                                                                              She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                                                                                                              by ATinNM on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 01:16:36 PM EST
                                                                                                              [ Parent ]
                                                                                                              Shit.

                                                                                                              Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
                                                                                                              by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 02:00:41 PM EST
                                                                                                              [ Parent ]
                                                                                                              Jazeera, I want to deliver this information, I confirmed it personally, on my responsibility. I am a Libyan citizen. Today in Benghazi they discovered a room underground, a room that is completely locked-in. Completely locked. Holding 1500 young men from Benghazi. From the 15th of February the first day of demonstrations to today when they got them out, the 22nd, they had been without food or water. They heard the voices from the barracks, noise, people. After they went to check, they got them out, God be praised, alive. 1500 young men, buried alive, buried alive. Muammar must be obliterated. We will not surrender. Our dead are in heaven, he is in hell. God bear witness that I have delivered this message, if there are any Muslims. God willing.


                                                                                                              She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
                                                                                                              by ATinNM on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 01:24:24 PM EST
                                                                                                              [ Parent ]
                                                                                                              During Egypt's revolts my dominant emotion was awe - and goosebumps.

                                                                                                              This one, it's repulsion.  

                                                                                                              Let it come down.

                                                                                                              by Nomad on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 03:53:17 PM EST
                                                                                                              [ Parent ]
                                                                                                              Nicholas Kristof (NickKristof) on Twitter
                                                                                                              1. Amazing: I hear by phone that Tajura, #Libya , less than 10 miles from Tripoli, has fallen. Rebel flag flying over it. less than 20 seconds ago via web
                                                                                                                • I hear by phone that four tanks are now at Pivoo intersection on outskirts of Tripoli, blocking all traffic from east.


                                                                                                                Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                                                by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 12:09:06 PM EST
                                                                                                                Note: Al Hurra is unreliable as source of information.


                                                                                                                She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
                                                                                                                by ATinNM on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 12:09:08 PM EST
                                                                                                                What prompted this?

                                                                                                                Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
                                                                                                                by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 12:18:07 PM EST
                                                                                                                [ Parent ]
                                                                                                                They have kept making reports and statements that later turn out to be false.  For example, they have, several times, claimed Benghazi is under air or naval attack which latter turn out to be false.  Then, a couple of hours later, we hear of another defection of Libyan military personnel/assets.

                                                                                                                I'm guessing they have a source in the regime feeding them what the regime would like to be doing, and are unable to do it.  

                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                                                                                                                by ATinNM on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 12:27:33 PM EST
                                                                                                                [ Parent ]
                                                                                                                Alhurra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                                                                                                                Alhurra (or al-Hurra) (Arabic: الحرّة‎, al-Ḥurrah [alˈħurra],[note] "The free") is a United States-based satellite TV channel, sponsored by the U.S. government
                                                                                                                Figures...

                                                                                                                Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
                                                                                                                by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 12:29:40 PM EST
                                                                                                                [ Parent ]
                                                                                                                Good information sources:

                                                                                                                Al Jazeera - Live stream can be found on YouTube

                                                                                                                ShababLibya - blogger/tweeter

                                                                                                                iyad_elbaghdadi - blogger/tweeter

                                                                                                                She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                                                                                                                by ATinNM on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 12:41:34 PM EST
                                                                                                                [ Parent ]
                                                                                                                ICC - Statement by ICC Prosecutor Luis Moreno-Ocampo on Libya

                                                                                                                "The decision to do justice in Libya should be taken by the Libyan people. Currently, Libya is not a State Party to the Rome Statute. Therefore, intervention by the ICC on the alleged crimes committed in Libya can occur only if the Libyan authorities accept the jurisdiction of the Court, (through article 12(3) of the Rome Statute). In the absence of such step, the United Nations Security Council can decide to refer the situation to the Court. The Office of the Prosecutor will act only after either decision is taken".

                                                                                                                Source: Office of the Prosecutor



                                                                                                                Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                                                by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 12:20:26 PM EST
                                                                                                                Reports of 150,000 mercenaries in Libya are circulating.

                                                                                                                Rubbish.

                                                                                                                That would comprise a three corp field army.  Regime didn't have that many before revolution and it doesn't have the airlift capability to bring that many in over the short amount of time the revolution has been happening.

                                                                                                                She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                                                                                                                by ATinNM on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 12:36:31 PM EST
                                                                                                                Rawya Rageh (RawyaRageh) on Twitter
                                                                                                                #Libya tries to defend itself in front of European ambassadors by callin meeting to detail 'official' account #Feb17


                                                                                                                Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                                                by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 12:40:28 PM EST
                                                                                                                Rawya Rageh (RawyaRageh) on Twitter
                                                                                                                #Libya tells ambsdrs civilians were killed by stray bullets fired by protesters #Feb17


                                                                                                                Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                                                by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 12:44:07 PM EST
                                                                                                                [ Parent ]
                                                                                                                Report from Misrata, unknown reliability, claiming a "regiment" (?) with tanks and heavy artillery has defected and will now defend city from regime.

                                                                                                                Same source: anti-air missiles were heard at dawn, Misrata radio station went off air, is now back up.

                                                                                                                If one of the anti-air battalions of the Libyan Army has joined revolt it's tremendously good news.

                                                                                                                She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                                                                                                                by ATinNM on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 12:59:59 PM EST
                                                                                                                Hmm #Iran President #Ahmadinejad condemns #Gaddafi for using force against #Libya civilians! #Gadafi #Benghazi #Feb17 #mousavi #Iranelection

                                                                                                                Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                                                by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 01:09:44 PM EST
                                                                                                                "The carnage in #Libya must stop. A leader who crushes his own people does not deserve that name - or position." - Desmond Tutu

                                                                                                                Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                                                                                                by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 01:11:50 PM EST
                                                                                                                [ Parent ]
                                                                                                                #mote #eye #beam #pot #kettle

                                                                                                                Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
                                                                                                                by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 01:57:42 PM EST
                                                                                                                [ Parent ]
                                                                                                                Getting #biblical #etemology #küchen #gregorycorso on us now?

                                                                                                                "Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anas Nin
                                                                                                                by Crazy Horse on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 02:05:16 PM EST
                                                                                                                [ Parent ]
                                                                                                                Unknown reliability:

                                                                                                                People of Misrata have created a 'black list' which names all those who attacked protesters or aided the oppressive regime.

                                                                                                                All those blacklisted in Misrata will not be attacked but have been completely boycotted by the whole community.



                                                                                                                She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
                                                                                                                by ATinNM on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 01:19:35 PM EST
                                                                                                                Reports Al Kufra, in the southeast corner of Libya close to the Egyptian border, has been liberated by the Libyan people.  

                                                                                                                What has been going on in Al Kufra is horrific:

                                                                                                                Migrants coming from the East African coast and the Near East pass through and compulsorily stop in Kufra. It is a little village of transit along the traditional route between Khartum and the coastal Libyan towns, which has lately turned to be a spot gathering Libyan-Sudanese criminal organizations involved in the illegal transport of immigrants, police officers controlling the boundaries and the need of people working in local productive activities.

                                                                                                                The village of Kufra has long been suspected and accused by European Parliamentary delegations as being criminally instrumental in assisting migrants. In 2007, they defined Kufra as a free zone, a sort of starting Centre of Temporary Permanence CPT against the law... These gathering centres are places, in which the first contacts with the criminal organizations occur. Such organizations promote the "journey of hope", with a flexible handling of the Migrants' African routes according to the restriction policies adopted by the various governments. The minds of the criminal organizations act accordingly to what happens in each country: if Morocco stresses its restrain policies, the routes move towards the Canary Islands, if the controls in Libya increase, the streams are diverted towards Malta. When the migratory stream is over, the routes are back on Libya and Tunisia.

                                                                                                                Article also says:

                                                                                                                In 2005 Italy allocated funds for the creation of a detention camp at Kufra.

                                                                                                                Should be investigated to see if there are 'certain persons' in the Italian government have benefited from this.

                                                                                                                She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                                                                                                                by ATinNM on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 01:38:30 PM EST
                                                                                                                Doesn't sound like a Temporary Autonomous Zone.

                                                                                                                "Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anas Nin
                                                                                                                by Crazy Horse on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 02:08:12 PM EST
                                                                                                                [ Parent ]
                                                                                                                No it doesn't.

                                                                                                                Sounds like a hell hole.

                                                                                                                The Libyan regimes needs to be arrested and put on trial for Crimes Against Humanity.

                                                                                                                She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                                                                                                                by ATinNM on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 02:17:48 PM EST
                                                                                                                [ Parent ]
                                                                                                                by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 02:13:29 PM EST


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