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Libya - 23-24 February

by afew Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 02:11:22 PM EST

A new thread for events in Libya and protest movements elsewhere.


Display:
Fresh thread.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 02:12:16 PM EST
Don't get fresh with me. I'm very comfortable with the old order, particularly its flow of fossil fuels, though i will condemn the violence in the most unmitigatedness of terms. --  Various and Sundry High (though not so high as the alleged protesters) Representatives of the Yurpeen Onion.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anas Nin
by Crazy Horse on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 02:17:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This satire was posted before i read Mig's post.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anas Nin
by Crazy Horse on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 02:33:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Saudi's $36bn bid to beat unrest

King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia announced financial support measures, worth an estimated SR135bn ($36bn), in a bid to avert the kind of popular unrest that has toppled leaders across the region and is now closing in on Libya's Muammer Gaddafi.

The measures include a 15 per cent salary rise for public employees to offset inflation, reprieves for imprisoned debtors, and financial aid for students and the unemployed.

Saudi Arabia's ruling family has thus far been spared the type of popular discontent that has toppled presidents in Tunisia and Egypt and brought Libya to the brink of civil war.



Wind power
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 04:08:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Jerome a Paris:
reprieves for imprisoned debtors,

They have debtor's prisons? How... bizarre.

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman

by dvx (dvx.clt t gmail dotcom) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 04:26:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Just like in the U.S.?
It's not a crime to owe money, and debtors' prisons were abolished in the United States in the 19th century. But people are routinely being thrown in jail for failing to pay debts. In Minnesota, which has some of the most creditor-friendly laws in the country, the use of arrest warrants against debtors has jumped 60 percent over the past four years, with 845 cases in 2009, a Star Tribune analysis of state court data has found.
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 04:37:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah well. Forward into the past!

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman
by dvx (dvx.clt t gmail dotcom) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 04:42:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ElPais.com in English: Ignominy (Editorial)
This is not the Europe that the revolution in the Arab world needs. The silence and inaction with which the EU received the demonstrations that overthrew Ben Ali and Mubarak in Tunisia and Egypt, have now been followed by a lukewarm reaction to the massacre perpetrated by Gaddafi. When a tyrant sends in tanks and planes against his own people, it is simply ignominious to speak of restraint in the use of force. These are not the first crimes committed by Gaddafi, but they are the most shameless. Regarding them, the EU has shown that it is more concerned with how to keep the Libyans shut up within their own frontiers, than with supporting citizens who have been risking their lives to speak out, and to bring down a tyranny of decades.


Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 02:17:20 PM EST
Same old shit.  It's "Spanish Civil War" response.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 02:28:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The majority of European governments, and possibly population, seems to be more concerned with the immigration wave angle...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 03:11:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe they'll be easier to convince when we mention that the more we suppress the violence against civilians in Libya, the fewer immigrants will cross the sea. Every soldier or airman we send south means 10 people less coming north.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 07:10:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
While it may have been appropriate to watch while Tunisians and Egyptians used peaceful protest to overthrow their oppressive regimes - on the grounds that the change was brought about by the citizens of those countries - to turn away and do nothing in the face of what is happening in Libya shames the USA and all the major countries in Europe. If not now, when? When is it appropriate to intervene while madmen slaughter their subjects?

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 03:58:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Foreign Office Minister says chartered plane has developed a fault and is still at Gatwick, 4 hours after it was due to depart for Tripoli

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 02:24:23 PM EST
Sign in Darna demonstration today: "Rats do not face bullets with their bare chests, they hide in bunkers & give speeches."


She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 02:53:42 PM EST
Live Blog - Libya Feb 23 | Al Jazeera Blogs

8.10pm: The US will consider possibly freezing assets belonging to the Libyan government and Gaddafi as it weighs its response to Libya's political crisis but no decision has been taken yet, the state department said.

8.06pm: A source in the Janzour district in east Tripoli spoke to Al Jazeera and said there were plain clothed men with swords in the streets. She said her family had barricaded their front door with couches and furniture, to try and prevent them breaking in. The source reported hearing "booming sounds in the near distance," which she thought were doors being broken down at other houses.

7.57pm: A source speaking to Al Jazeera from the outskirts of Tripoli, said that a number of tanks and cars carrying gun-weilding Gaddafi-supporters were in the Tajura district of the capital, heading towards the city center.



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 02:57:37 PM EST
They might seek the aid of this guy:
Youssef Sawan, who quit as director of the Gaddafi International Charitable Foundation


"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 08:50:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Rawya Rageh (RawyaRageh) on Twitter
  1. #Libya's state TV airs names of officers joining pro #Gaddafi demos, describe'm as 'free officers' #Feb17 less than a minute ago via Mobile Web
    • #Libya's state TV says 'honorable citizens' continue apprehending 'vandalizers' #Feb17 5 minutes ago via Mobile Web
      • #Libya's state TV urges 'those who like to film with their cell phones' to email footage of pro #Gaddafi demos #Feb17 8 minutes ago via Mobile Web
        • Pro #Gaddafi protesters on #Libya's state TV curse @AlJazeera. As if Arab youth had no reasons to revolt..


        Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
        by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 02:59:17 PM EST
        Seeking precedents for revolt by some #UN Libya diplos against gov, seems same thing happened to Pakistan mission in 1971...

        Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
        by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 03:42:49 PM EST
        Live Blog - Libya Feb 23 | Al Jazeera Blogs
        10.38pm: More than 2, 000 people have been killed in Benghazi alone over the past few days, a French doctor told Le Point Magazine. The doctor also said that those attacking anti-government protesters included foreign mercenaries from Chad and Niger.


        Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
        by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 03:50:12 PM EST
        benwedeman (bencnn) on Twitter
        Workers in Benghazi power plant refused Tripoli's orders to cut electricity to city. Power supply now more reliable than before. #Libya


        Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
        by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 06:32:23 PM EST
        Power supply now more reliable than before.

        This is amazing.

        So, in what may be my last act of "advising", I'll advise you to cut the jargon. -- My old PhD advisor, to me, 26/2/11

        by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 04:31:52 AM EST
        [ Parent ]
        well how it can have been up for long enough to guage reliability is a question

        Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
        by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 06:40:49 AM EST
        [ Parent ]
        benwedeman (bencnn) on Twitter
        As first western TV crew to make it to Benghazi we were greeted like liberators, pelted with candy, cheers and thanks. Very humbling. #Libya


        Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
        by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 06:32:39 PM EST
        benwedeman (bencnn) on Twitter
        Ad-hoc government in Benghazi in contact with Qaddafi's tribe, telling them they are opposed to his rule, not his tribe. #Libya


        Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
        by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 06:33:15 PM EST
        US mulls all options against Libya - Americas - Al Jazeera English

        Barack Obama, the US president, has said the violent crackdown in Libya violated international norms and that he had ordered his national security team to prepare the full range of options for dealing with the crisis.

        "I have also asked my administration to prepare the full range of options that we may have to respond to this crisis," Obama said in his first televised comments on the Libya crisis on Wednesday.

        The US president said he would send Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to Geneva for a meeting of the United Nations Human Rights Council at the weekend and for talks with allied foreign ministers.

        The Obama administration said earlier that it was looking at imposing sanctions on Libya to punish it for a violent crackdown on protesters seeking ouster of Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi.



        Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
        by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 06:45:31 PM EST
        Hossam عمو حسام (3arabawy) on Twitter
        1. This aerial danger is being overinflated by the Western powers to legitimize the enforcement of a no fly zone, which means NATO is in. 1 minute ago via Echofon
          • @shadihamid How many aerial bombardments happened today in Libya by pro-Qaddafi forces? Do u have a figure? 3 minutes ago via Echofon in reply to shadihamid
            • Which would be catastrophic. We can't have them on our borders RT @shadihamid It would b NATO that would enforce nofly zone @3arabawy #libya 8 minutes ago via Echofon
              • Except I hope I don't c NATO RT @shadihamid: According to estimates deaths in #Libya over 2000. Model here's Bosnia/Kosovo not Egypt/Tunisia


              Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
              by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 06:55:07 PM EST
              Hossam عمو حسام (3arabawy) on Twitter
              Those troops which have been involved in the Afghan massacres cannot be the guardians of the Libyan revolution suddenly. #NATO


              Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
              by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 06:58:53 PM EST
              [ Parent ]
              Who is Hossam 3 and for whom does he speak?

              "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
              by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 09:10:28 PM EST
              [ Parent ]
              For Fidel Castro? Here's what he said 2 days ago:
              One can agree with Qaddafi or not.  The world has been invaded with all kinds of news, especially using the mass media.  One has to wait the necessary length of time in order to learn precisely what is the truth and what are lies, or a mixture of events of every kind that, in the midst of chaos, were produced in Libya.  For me, what is absolutely clear is that the government of the United States is not in the least worried about peace in Libya and it will not hesitate in giving NATO the order to invade that rich country, perhaps in a matter of hours or a few short days.

              Those who with perfidious intentions invented the lie that Gaddafi was headed for Venezuela, just as they did yesterday afternoon on  Sunday the 20th of February, today received an fitting response from Foreign Affairs Minister  Nicolás Maduro when he literally stated that he was "wishing that the Libyan people would find, in the exercise of their sovereignty, a peaceful solution to their difficulties, that would preserve the integrity of the Libyan people and nation, without the interference of imperialism..."

              As for me, I cannot imagine that the Libyan leader would abandon his country; escaping the responsibilities he is charged with, whether or not they are partially or totally false.

              An honest person shall always be against any injustice being committed against any people in the world, and the worst of all, at this moment, would be to remain silent in the face of the crime that NATO is getting ready to commit against the Libyan people.

              by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Thu Feb 24th, 2011 at 01:04:57 AM EST
              [ Parent ]
              I don't know who he is, but ive seen him quoted over the last few days fairly regularly

              Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
              by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Feb 24th, 2011 at 01:49:27 AM EST
              [ Parent ]
              Who is NATO and what does it stand for?

              So, in what may be my last act of "advising", I'll advise you to cut the jargon. -- My old PhD advisor, to me, 26/2/11
              by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 04:50:38 AM EST
              [ Parent ]
              LibyanYouthMovement (ShababLibya) on Twitter
              I spoke with family in Benghazi, which is proof no foreign intervention needed, they formed a gov, no looting everybody at peace #Libya about 1 hour ago via web


                *Lunatic*, n.
                One whose delusions are out of fashion.
                by DoDo on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 06:54:47 AM EST
                [ Parent ]
                Then again, same Twitter account:

                LibyanYouthMovement (ShababLibya) on Twitter

                @UN @BarackObama Libyans demand a no-fly zone over Libya now! #libya #gaddaficrimes #feb17 about 7 hours ago via web


                *Lunatic*, n.
                One whose delusions are out of fashion.
                by DoDo on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 06:57:39 AM EST
                [ Parent ]
                Libya Crumbles Around Gadhafi - WSJ.com
                Libyan leader Col. Moammar Gadhafi clung to power while gunshots echoed in the capital, the international community moved toward isolating him and more territory slipped from his control, putting additional power into the hands of the fractious tribal groups in outlying areas of the country.


                Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 07:29:12 PM EST
                Live Blog - Libya Feb 24 | Al Jazeera Blogs
                1:31am: The U.N. Development Program has dropped Libyan leader's Muammar Gaddafi's daughter as a goodwill ambassador

                Live Blog - Libya Feb 24 | Al Jazeera Blogs

                1:48am: Aisha, Gaddafi's daughter, has appeared on state television, denying a report she tried to flee to Malta. "I am steadfastly here," she said. She added she was unaware of a report she had been dropped by the United Nations as a goodwill ambassador.


                Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 08:19:42 PM EST
                Some advocacy for a no fly zone. Guardian (three excerpts)

                Nicolas Sarkozy is leading the calls for a Nato-imposed no-fly zone to be enforced over Libya to "prevent the use of that country's warplanes against [its] population".

                Sarkozy, the current president of the G8 and G20 economic forums, has also called for the European Union to impose sanctions against Libya and suggested that the assets of the family of the Libyan leader, Muammar Gaddafi, should be frozen.

                Neither Wm. Hague nor David Cameron endorsed the call, but there was this:

                Speaking on BBC Radio 4's Today programme, the former foreign secretary Lord Owen became the first British politician to call for a no-fly zone, adding that the west should be concerned about the possibility that Gaddafi would unleash chemical weapons.

                "We know that this is a person who could unleash either chemical or biological weapons, which he possibly still has. He is one of the worst despots we have seen for many a century. He is deeply unstable, and has been for 42 years," Owen said.

                He called for a UN charter chapter 7 intervention - meaning the authorisation of military and non-military means to "restore international peace and security" - to be enforced by Nato air forces with Egyptian military support to demonstrate regional backing for the effort.

                Meanwhile, Libya's former Deputy UN Ambassador was reported to advocate a flight ban:

                Demands for a ban on flights over Libya have been made by Ibrahim al-Dabashi, the country's deputy ambassador to the UN, who is among diplomats who have abandoned Gaddafi.

                He said the measure would prevent mercenaries, weapons and other supplies from reaching Gaddafi and his security forces. There have also been fears that Gaddafi could resort to bombing his own people.

                Another possibility would be to seek cover from the Arab League. Conservative regimes might be persuaded that quick, decisive action will be less damaging to them that a drawn-out, agonizing spectacle that might rouse further popular protest. It would be best were such action taken by other Arab states. Egypt and Tunisia have obvious interests as neighbors and could be encouraged to act together, in concert with other Arab states, to bring the situation to a close. Interestingly, the current Secretary General of the Arab League in Cairo might be persuaded to support such an approach. If successful, such action likely would not do his political career any harm:

                Arab League leader says nations shouldn't fear revolts    By Leila Fadel  WaPo

                CAIRO - As Arab League ambassadors convened for an emergency meeting Monday, the organization's secretary general said he had told the group that "we should not be afraid or concerned'' about revolts now sweeping the region.

                It was in some ways a surprising message from the leader of a 22-nation group that embodies the existing order. The Arab League meeting at the organization's headquarters was the first since the toppling of leaders in Tunisia and Egypt, two important member states.

                But the leader, Amr Moussa, a former Egyptian foreign minister, is making plain that he no longer sees his role as being to defend the status quo.

                "I conveyed the message that the winds of change are sweeping our societies," Moussa said in an interview Monday. He urged a "feeling of optimism that this is the future,'' and said that in day's session the Arab League ambassadors had "saluted'' and "greeted" the revolutions in Egypt and Tunisia.

                Moussa is steping down from his position as early as next month. He said in the interview that there was a "good possibility" that he would seek to become Egypt's next president, once constitutional changes are put in place to allow for open elections.

                Getting the Arab League to agree to anything is a long shot, but getting the Secretary General's backing could provide some cover.

                "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

                by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 09:42:06 PM EST
                Rawya Rageh (RawyaRageh) on Twitter
                1. #Libya's state TV up again #Feb17 about 1 hour ago via web
                  • #Libya state TV patchy.. Keeps going up and down. What does that mean? #Feb17 about 3 hours ago via Mobile Web
                    • #Libya state TV gone black #Feb17


                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Feb 24th, 2011 at 01:47:11 AM EST
                    Nicholas Kristof (NickKristof) on Twitter
                    Death Toll in Libya Is Most Likely More Than 1,000, Italy Says - http://nyti.ms/hkEBxU


                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Feb 24th, 2011 at 01:50:29 AM EST
                    And from Italy, quoting Ar-Arabiya, reports of 10,000 dead.

                    It Italy itself, Berlusconi is shocked by Ghadaffi's verbal violence, and is afraid he will fire missiles at Italy.

                    Raccontano che il Cavaliere sia rimasto scioccato dalla violenza verbale di Gheddafi. Soprattutto dalle accuse all'Italia - accuse reiterate nonostante la telefonata tra i due - di manovrare dietro gli insorti rifornendoli di armi pesanti. A margine della riunione serale a palazzo Chigi sull'emergenza, Berlusconi ha confessato la sua paura a un ministro: "Dobbiamo stare attenti con Gheddafi, è un pazzo. Ci ha già sparato un missile una volta, non è che ce ne tira un altro contro?".
                    by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Thu Feb 24th, 2011 at 02:05:18 AM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    Live Blog - Libya Feb 24 | Al Jazeera Blogs

                    8:30am Algerians returning home from Libya speak to Al Jazeera. One man who was in Tripoli tells us, as foreigners, they were targeted: "It was just crazy. It did not make sense. There were so many mercenaries shooting at people." Our reporter asked if he saw the mercenaries with his own eyes.

                    Yes, I did. Of course I did. They entered houses - but even the Libyans used violence against the foreigners - Moroccan, Tunisian, all Arabs - under the pretext they were against the regime.



                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Feb 24th, 2011 at 02:04:59 AM EST
                    Live Blog - Libya Feb 24 | Al Jazeera Blogs

                    An Algerian woman tells Al Jazeera, having fled Libya:

                    I feel like crying, I am so happy to be back in Algeria. Thank God I escaped the carnage.

                    Did you see Baghdad? It was like being in Baghdad. They used planes, helicopters. People, women, were screaming, as they were slaughtering people. There were about 60 dead people in Green Square in the centre of Tripoli, these 60 people were slaughtered.

                    High buildings, the ministry of justice, were burned down. We were just working there, trying to make a living. Thank God, bless him, has helped us. It took us four days to get to the airprort. You need too many papers to get in and leave the country.



                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Feb 24th, 2011 at 02:05:34 AM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    Live Blog - Libya Feb 24 | Al Jazeera Blogs

                    Charles Levinson of the Wall Street Journal tweets:

                    Meeting of Bayda elders gave us standing ovation today. 1st time meeting wstrn journos in 42yrs. Gadhafi says foreign journos = al qaeda



                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Feb 24th, 2011 at 02:06:42 AM EST
                    According to Al Hurra TV, son of Gaddafi, Saif ul Arab, who was sent by his father to suppress the protesters in the east region of Libya, joined the revolutionists.

                    Saif ul Arab having combat troops and millitary equipments that was sent to the region joined the protestors.

                    He also added: My father (Moammar Ghaddafi) would commit suicide or flee to Latin America.

                    Note: Al Hurra is unreliable.

                    She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                    by ATinNM on Thu Feb 24th, 2011 at 02:55:15 AM EST
                    Serbian Mercenaries Fighting on Behalf of Gaddafi

                    A Serbian newspaper claims it has received information from the military that indicates Serbian mercenaries are fighting to protect Muammar Gaddafi. The source in the Serbian military claims the so called " dogs of war" were the first to arrive in Tripoli and are now helping patrol the city and presumably killing civilians as reported by other agencies. It goes on to say that Gaddafi trusts Serb mercenaries because they are "good"(at killing?) and because Libya has had a long relationship working with Serbs over the past 20 years.


                    She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
                    by ATinNM on Thu Feb 24th, 2011 at 02:58:34 AM EST
                    Isolated protests break out in North Korea.

                    SMALL pockets of unrest are appearing in North Korea as the repressive regime struggles to feed its people, South Korean media reported yesterday.

                    Mind now set to "Boggle."

                    She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                    by ATinNM on Thu Feb 24th, 2011 at 03:05:06 AM EST
                    This is going to be interesting.

                    So, in what may be my last act of "advising", I'll advise you to cut the jargon. -- My old PhD advisor, to me, 26/2/11
                    by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 04:46:25 AM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    Especially as other important stuff is likely to happen in North Korea in the next few weeks, or months at most.

                    Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
                    by Starvid on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 06:11:03 AM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    Pictures all over the place showing revolutionaries arming themselves ... including tanks, mortars, and anti-aircraft weapons.  

                    Slide show from Misurata: here.

                    Most of it looks like old Warsaw Pact stuff, god only knows in what condition.  Even if only 30% of it works the regime is in deep trouble.  

                    She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                    by ATinNM on Thu Feb 24th, 2011 at 03:35:34 AM EST
                    Map of Libya showing liberated towns.

                    She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
                    by ATinNM on Thu Feb 24th, 2011 at 04:03:28 AM EST
                    There's a very good interactive map set up by someone but I can't find the link on Al Jazeera anymore. It's updated in real time.
                    by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Thu Feb 24th, 2011 at 05:46:22 AM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    Here is the updated map:



                    *Lunatic*, n.
                    One whose delusions are out of fashion.

                    by DoDo on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 07:00:18 AM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    The map's author about himself:

                    Entrepreneur, Austrian economist, animation trainer, forex trader, game programmer, project manager, Ron Paul supporter, and Islamic libertarian.

                    Austrian economist? Sigh...

                    *Lunatic*, n.
                    One whose delusions are out of fashion.

                    by DoDo on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 07:02:09 AM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    Washington Post is carrying "up-to-the-minute analysis" we had on Saturday.

                    She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
                    by ATinNM on Thu Feb 24th, 2011 at 04:25:25 AM EST
                    You're a treasure to ET, AT.

                    So, in what may be my last act of "advising", I'll advise you to cut the jargon. -- My old PhD advisor, to me, 26/2/11
                    by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 04:30:04 AM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    Closing in on the bastard.

                    Al Jazeera: Anti Gaddafi protesters take control of the town of Zwara, 110km/68 miles west of Tripoli.


                    She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
                    by ATinNM on Thu Feb 24th, 2011 at 04:27:34 AM EST
                    However Zawia is being bombed this morning by Gadaffi forces, 50 km west of Tripoli. Medical sources give seven dead and 40 wounded. Other sources more catastrophic.

                    Taajoura is presently surrounded by Gadaffi forces. An attack is expected soon.

                    by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Thu Feb 24th, 2011 at 05:27:00 AM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    Zawia is also called Az-Zawiyah. The mosque minaret has been reportedly hit 25 minutes ago.

                    Apparently Gadaffi is trying to block the march on Tripoli programmed for tomorrow by taking Az-Zawiyah and Taajoura.

                    Another report of a "fundamentalist" emirat having been set up in a city in the East has been denied by the local mullah who also declares his support of the uprising.

                    by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Thu Feb 24th, 2011 at 05:34:29 AM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    ... the offshore oil reserves to where it makes land west of Tripoli, and meets the oil pipelines coming up from the south.

                    There. Az-Zawiya on this map.

                    Kind of strategic place. Holding Tripoli without holding Az-Zawiya would be kind of useless for a strongman who pays people with oil revenues.



                    I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

                    by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Thu Feb 24th, 2011 at 11:21:18 AM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    Frattini's speech yesterday to the House was more a campaign speech for impending elections. His harping on a mass of some 300,000 illegal immigrants invading Italy seems highly improbable. What boats for that mass? Since the last month there have about 5700 people who have landed in Italy from Tunisia and Libya. The latest annual data was 37,000 a year- about 100 a day. No EU, UN or NGO source has confirmed the minister's figure.

                    The scare tactic seems more to galvanize the low-brow conservative vote to get out and vote in prospective elections. It is also thrown around to pass the cross onto Europe. The treaties between Italy and Libya on illegal immigration are already financed 50-50 by Italy and the UE. Libya does not pay a cent for setting up Libyan detention camps or patrolling its coast. It's all outsourced by the Italian government with some European funds.

                    by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Thu Feb 24th, 2011 at 05:44:21 AM EST
                    Stockholm just reprimanded Italy on their immigration hype. Sweden processes 32,000 requests a year with only 9,000,000 population while Italy has nearly seven times that population and is unable to process a similar number of requests. The foreign population in Italy is lower than other European nations but Italy is far more intolerant.
                    by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Thu Feb 24th, 2011 at 05:53:12 AM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    There are some pretty horribly gruesome pictures at the daily beast. They show guys cut to pieces, literally, cut of straight across the chest. You don't get wounds like that from assault rifles or even heavy machine guns. You only get these effects from autocannon, artillery shells, rockets or bombs.

                    This is not riots. It's war.

                    Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

                    by Starvid on Thu Feb 24th, 2011 at 07:43:39 AM EST
                    Listening to Kaddafi's latest speech right now, where he called in to national TV. The man is repetitive, unfocused, somewhat confused and quite crazed. He really needs to take some rhetoric classes.

                    Furthermore, the fact that he can't or won't go on TV again says a lot.

                    Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

                    by Starvid on Thu Feb 24th, 2011 at 11:19:45 AM EST
                    Starvid:
                    He really needs to take some rhetoric classes.

                    You bet. The guy doesn't have a hope of becoming a convincing long-term dictator without it. :)

                    by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Feb 24th, 2011 at 11:52:18 AM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    The guy doesn't have a hope of becoming remaining a convincing long-term dictator (for more than another week) without it.

                    FIFY :)

                    by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Feb 24th, 2011 at 12:06:36 PM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    ... ramshackle army of dubious loyalty, he's still toast.

                    The same insane or amphetamine fueled rhetoric, but a well organized, well trained, fiercely loyal army, he could well be dictator for years yet.

                    It says something that when people loyal to the insurrection took over the power plant to supply Benghazi, the quality of power supply improved. Its not just the fact that army units are defecting ~ its also that it could be that the units that defect will be higher quality fighting forces with better esprit de corps than the ones who's to officers retain their loyalty to the regime.

                    I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

                    by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Thu Feb 24th, 2011 at 12:50:41 PM EST
                    [ Parent ]



                    She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
                    by ATinNM on Thu Feb 24th, 2011 at 07:19:55 PM EST
                    Sure puts a human voice to the terror occurring. Thanks for posting.

                    "Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anas Nin
                    by Crazy Horse on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 01:31:41 PM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    This should be fun.

                    Saudi youth call for protest in solidarity with Libyan uprising.

                    A group of Saudi youth Thursday called for a peaceful demonstration in the coastal city of Jeddah in solidarity with anti-government protesters in Libya.

                    In a printed statement distributed around Riyadh, a group calling itself Jeddah Youth for Change asked people to demonstrate near the al-Beia roundabout in Jeddah on Friday.



                    She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
                    by ATinNM on Thu Feb 24th, 2011 at 10:00:27 PM EST
                    Live Blog - Libya Feb 25   Al Jazeera

                    10:57pm: From our lead story on Libya tonight:

                        Mustafa Abdel Galil, who resigned three days ago from his post as the country's justice minister, spoke to Al Jazeera at a meeting of tribal leaders and representatives of eastern Libya in the city of Al Baida.

                        He warned that Gaddafi has biological and chemical weapons, and will not hesitate to use them.

                        'We call on the international community and the UN to prevent Gaddafi from going on with his plans in Tripoli,' he said.

                         'At the end when he's really pressured, he can do anything. I think Gaddafi will burn everything left behind him.'


                    The USA has Castro and Chavez accusing it of fomenting the uprising in Libya as a pretext for invasion. But we have actual Libyan protesters, (live interview on NPR Thursday, Feb.25,) begging the US to intervene now. The choice is damned if we do, damned if we don't. I would choose damned if we do. Else we may well stand by while Gadaffi does a Jim Jones on his citizens.

                    We should be actively working with the Tunisian and Egyptian military to equip and facilitate suitable Libyan "protesters" to take out key Gadaffi assets, including his aircraft and helicopters. Night vision equipment, transport equipment, if required, coordinates, satellite links, specialized weapons, etc. to enable native Libyans to destroy as much of Gadaffi's arsenal as possible while confining any casualties to Gadaffi's elite forces. Remember what the Argentine Air Force was able to do to the British Navy with French fighters and missiles and Soviet satellite coordinates.

                    "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

                    by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Feb 24th, 2011 at 11:23:37 PM EST
                    Id think that that would be avery good move for the Current Egyptian government, for one thing it would help gain them a little leeway with their own protesters, show their commitment to the revolution, about which their own protesters have some doubts. But it all depends how they see the revolutionaries on their own borders.

                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 04:52:19 AM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    Further justification could be that they are concerned about spill-over from possible use of chemical and biological weapons. They might want some bunker buster bombs used for the start of any operation.

                    "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
                    by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 09:45:58 AM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    The USA has Castro and Chavez accusing it of fomenting the uprising in Libya as a pretext for invasion.

                    <sigh>

                    And Nicaragua's Ortega praising Gaddafi.

                    So, in what may be my last act of "advising", I'll advise you to cut the jargon. -- My old PhD advisor, to me, 26/2/11

                    by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 04:44:31 AM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    BBC News - Libya and Arab unrest
                    1014: Libya's food supply chain is "at risk of collapsing", the UN's World Food Programme warns, according to the AFP.


                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 05:22:02 AM EST
                    BBC News - Libya and Arab unrest
                    The UN Human Rights Council has now begun meeting in emergency session in Geneva to discuss the Libya crisis. Commissioner Navi Pillay condemned Col Gaddafi's use of violence against protesters, which she said could amount to crimes against humanity. The council is expected to demand Libya's expulsion - a move never before taken against a member state, the BBC's Imogen Foulkes reports.


                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 05:22:48 AM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    BBC News - Libya and Arab unrest
                    Reports from Paris say that anti-Gaddafi protesters - calling themselves the "children of revolution" - have occupied the Libyan embassy in France. "We've taken over the embassy," a spokeswoman for the group told the AFP. Police are stationed outside the embassy, preventing anyone else gaining access to the building.


                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 05:34:55 AM EST
                    Amid the Mideast protests, where is Saudi Arabia?

                    Two months into the Arab revolution, one very fat lady has yet to sing. But the turn of Saudi Arabia - home to one-fifth of the world's oil reserves, and the United States' most important remaining Arab ally - may be coming soon.

                    Think there's no chance that this kingdom's restless youth - 60 percent of the population is under 18, and 28 percent of working-age youths are unemployed - will rise in revolt? King Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz doesn't agree with you. On Wednesday, the ruler landed in Riyadh after a three-month absence abroad for medical treatment - and for an 87-year-old with a bad back, he looked like a man in a big hurry.

                    Before his plane even touched down, Abdullah had ordered up $36 billion in new welfare grants for his people - about $2,000 for every Saudi. There were loans for young Saudis to buy homes, get married and start a business, and a 15 percent pay raise for government workers. Next are a prisoner release and a cabinet reshuffle.

                    Meanwhile, waiting among the 50 or so white-robed men on the tarmac to meet Abdullah was the man who worries him most: King Hamad bin Isa al Khalifa of the neighboring island nation of Bahrain. A week ago the Khalifa regime tried to put down the first popular uprising in an Arab emirate by force - the solution sought by Saudi Arabia. It failed, thanks in part to countervailing pressure from the United States, which keeps a fleet in Bahrain's port.



                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 06:01:27 AM EST
                    How will America handle the fall of its Middle East empire? - Telegraph Blogs

                    Empires can collapse in the course of a generation. At the end of the 16th century, the Spanish looked dominant. Twenty-five years later, they were on their knees, over-extended, bankrupt, and incapable of coping with the emergent maritime powers of Britain and Holland. The British empire reached its fullest extent in 1930. Twenty years later, it was all over.

                    Today, it is reasonable to ask whether the United States, seemingly invincible a decade ago, will follow the same trajectory. America has suffered two convulsive blows in the last three years. The first was the financial crisis of 2008, whose consequences are yet to be properly felt. Although the immediate cause was the debacle in the mortgage market, the underlying problem was chronic imbalance in the economy.

                    For a number of years, America has been incapable of funding its domestic programmes and overseas commitments without resorting to massive help from China, its global rival. China has a pressing motive to assist: it needs to sustain US demand in order to provide a market for its exports and thus avert an economic crisis of its own. This situation is the contemporary equivalent of Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD), the doctrine which prevented nuclear war breaking out between America and Russia.



                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 06:16:28 AM EST
                    BBC - Adam Curtis Blog

                    Very few people in the west saw the present revolutions in the Arab world coming.

                    I think one of the main reasons is that we are still locked into a simplified way of looking at the Arab countries - above all Egypt - that began in the 1970s.

                    I wanted to go back and look at the roots of that powerful but distorted vision.

                    It dates back to the moment in 1977 when Anwar Sadat went to Israel to open the way to a peace treaty - that was then signed in Washington in 1979.



                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 06:24:10 AM EST
                    Wow.

                    That blog post is about a 1982 BBC documentary, which explains why Sadat wasn't mourned at home. Basically, his failed marketista economic policies, his love affair with Western media, and jarring discrepancy between the media image he cultivated and his king-like lifestyle. In addition, the BBC back then really exposed the illusion factory that was American news television. When they play Walter Cronkite again at the end, it sounds real stupid what he says.

                    *Lunatic*, n.
                    One whose delusions are out of fashion.

                    by DoDo on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 12:19:29 PM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    Wael Abbas (waelabbas) on Twitter
                    :Saif #Gaddafi just blamed #Canada for chaos. I think that's the first time someone's blamed Canada for war outside of South Park


                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 06:37:41 AM EST
                    The origins of the Great War of 2007 - and how it could have been prevented - Telegraph
                    Are we living through the origins of the next world war? Certainly, it is easy to imagine how a future historian might deal with the next phase of events in the Middle East:


                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 07:42:21 AM EST
                    Oh fer ...

                    Who is going to conduct this war and how are they going to pay for it?

                    Need a ...

                    [Murdoch Alert]

                    in there

                    She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                    by ATinNM on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 12:39:51 PM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    With sticks and stones, as Einstein famously quipped that WW4 would be fought.

                    So, in what may be my last act of "advising", I'll advise you to cut the jargon. -- My old PhD advisor, to me, 26/2/11
                    by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 04:42:40 AM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    After reading the latest bout of tweets and blog posts, a Meta-Comment:

                    Gadaffi is clinically insane.  

                    That's not snark or satire or humorous ad hominem; it's a stark statement of fact.  

                    She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                    by ATinNM on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 12:45:45 PM EST
                    His whole family is insane as well.

                    Bloomberg: Qaddafi Son Says Family Controls Most of Libya, Won't Leave


                    She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
                    by ATinNM on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 01:04:53 PM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    If the people don't love me then they don't deserve to live.

                    Unprofessional psychological assessment: G was a barely functional sociopath who may be turning into a dysfunctional psychopath as his self-constructed world crumbles.

                     

                    She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                    by ATinNM on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 01:10:37 PM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    That would fit easily into Berlusconi's repertoire.
                    by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 12:50:36 PM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    Al Jazeera reporting revolutionaries have gained control of parts of Tripoli.

                    She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
                    by ATinNM on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 12:52:48 PM EST
                    Events are accelerating.

                    Tripoli on the Brink: Showdown in the Streets

                    Rahma tells TIME she was out among the crowds earlier on Friday, but had been inside at home after hearing from family members elsewhere in the city that troops had shot unarmed marchers. At mid-afternoon, people she knew at the march told her that their numbers had grown to around 10,000 people. "The nearer to Green Square they get, the more people come out to join them," she says. "The soldiers are shooting more to reverse that, but it isn't working. The soldiers may shoot people, but more citizens will come to replace them."


                    She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
                    by ATinNM on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 01:02:36 PM EST
                    Reading reports Sabratha city (65km/40miles from Tripoli) is "under control" of the revolutionaries with regime forces kicked-out to the outskirts of the city.  Sabratha is the last major population center moving from the Tunisian border to Tripoli.

                    Apparently Zuara (Zawiya) - the scene of fighting yesterday - and the oil industry infrastructures there, are 100% controlled by revolutionaries although air attacks against the city may be happening.  (The last is unclear.)

                    Last word on the eastern front was the revolutionaries were preparing to march from the city of Misurata to Al-Khums.  Al-Khums is the last major population, on the coast road, between the liberated eastern zone and Tripoli.

                    The revolution is underway in Tripoli.  Reports from the ground is protesters are continuing to protest; mercenaries are, literally, roving the streets shooting people and then moving on, mercenaries may be using ambulances as transportion.  Other regime forces are responding to protests with gunfire.  

                    The revolutionaries have been seizing Army supply points and depots and are now as well armed - except for air assets - as the regime.  Numbers are hard to come by but the revolution has at least a 10% superiority in numbers and it very likely is way more than that.

                    Massive defections of the bureaucrats & etc. to the people's revolution both inside and outside Libya.  

                    The regime is falling.  

                    Now it's a question of how many people are going to be murdered by that manic before he flees, kills himself, or somebody kills him.

                    She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                    by ATinNM on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 02:17:09 PM EST
                    Al-Khums is the last major population, on the coast road, between the liberated eastern zone and Tripoli.

                    On the map, there is a big city in-between the liberated East of Libya and the liberated area east of Tripoli that was still marked Ghaddafi-controlled: Surt (Sidra). Any news you saw on events there? Also, what about the cities south of Tripoli deep in the desert?

                    *Lunatic*, n.
                    One whose delusions are out of fashion.

                    by DoDo on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 02:52:10 PM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    Surt is the hometown of Kaddafi, IIRC. The Tikrit of Libya, so to speak.

                    Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
                    by Starvid on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 06:14:33 AM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    LibyanYouthMovement (ShababLibya) on Twitter
                    Sirte is surrounded by two major free cities Misrata and Benghazi not to mention the smaller towns such as Brega and Ajdabia #Libya #Feb17 about 1 hour ago via web


                    *Lunatic*, n.
                    One whose delusions are out of fashion.
                    by DoDo on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 06:53:43 AM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    Eyewitness accounts by Egyptians coming across the Tunisian border saying Zuara (Zawiya) is controlled by revolutionaries but attacks by regime forces against the outskirts of the city continuing.  

                    She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
                    by ATinNM on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 02:55:27 PM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    Hugely Important:

                    Al Jazeera: Mutiqa airbase in Libya announces that it has joined the revolutionaries

                    Mitiga International Airport.

                    ... located about seven statute miles (11 km) east of Tripoli.

                    The base is deactivated, apparently,

                    ... [the] MiG-17/19/25 fighters and Tu-22 bombers [based there], the United States Department of State estimated in 1983 that 50 percent remained in storage, including most of the MiG fighters and Tu-22 bombers.

                    but, still, this is going to divert regime air assets and units to try and re-capture.

                    She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                    by ATinNM on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 02:43:42 PM EST
                    the United States Department of State estimated in 1983

                    That's a long long time ago...

                    *Lunatic*, n.
                    One whose delusions are out of fashion.

                    by DoDo on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 02:52:49 PM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    yes it is.

                    If the planes were mothballed in 1983 most, of not all, are inoperable.  However, they could be used as a source of spare parts for what aircraft the Libyan Air Force is flying.  

                    It's important not so much as a "military air base," although there will be arms, etc. on the base, but it's location 7 miles outside of downtown Tripoli.  That fact alone requires the regime to attack and re-take the base.  Given it is a military base it has military defenses recapturing it isn't going to be easy; the attackers will suffer casualties and maybe heavy casualties among the mercenaries due to poor military training, thus skill, and poor unit Will to Combat and cohesion.

                    She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                    by ATinNM on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 03:21:54 PM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    If the planes were mothballed in 1983 most, of not all, are inoperable.

                    If the US reported in 1983 that the planes were mothballed, that doesn't mean that they continued to be mothballed (and weren't replaced by newer planes) in the 28 years since...

                    *Lunatic*, n.
                    One whose delusions are out of fashion.

                    by DoDo on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 04:05:07 PM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    The most modern planes they have are Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-23s made in 1973-1978.  The consensus is "most are grounded."  

                    Some Sukhoi Su-30 are on order but they haven't been delivered.  

                    She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                    by ATinNM on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 06:07:09 PM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    Does this mean outside aircraft can land safely?

                    What anti-aircraft defences does Gaddafi still control within shooting range of incoming planes to the base?

                    So, in what may be my last act of "advising", I'll advise you to cut the jargon. -- My old PhD advisor, to me, 26/2/11

                    by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 04:40:02 AM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    The unfortunate answer is no.

                    A military airport has to be secure.  Can't fly a plane and a pilot costing ~$50 million into a place where some ten cent goon with a $3 AK-47 can shot holes in them.

                    Gadaffi's forces have some number of ZSU-23s with 4 × 23 mm 2A7 autocannons.  They also have French/German MILAN, and 620+ AT-3, AT-4, and AT-5, all of Soviet manufacture anti-aircraft missiles.  Keeping all this hardware out of range would require an invasion.

                    She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                    by ATinNM on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 11:48:37 AM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    Martin Chulov (Guardian journalist) tweets:

                    The Mitiga air base is confirmed to have fallen in Tripoli. Planes that strafed citizens took off from here.


                    She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
                    by ATinNM on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 07:00:05 PM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    So it wasn't "deactivated" as I wrote.

                    She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
                    by ATinNM on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 07:01:13 PM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    Story running around a large number of air force officers and commanders are no longer obeying Gadaffi's orders.  

                    She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
                    by ATinNM on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 07:04:54 PM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    Libya: Unrest and uncertainty - The Big Picture - Boston.com
                    As militiamen and mercenaries loyal to Moammar Khadafy ferociously strike back at rebels in and around the Libyan capital of Tripoli, much of the rest of the nation is embracing a bracing reality: After 41 years of ruthless and total control by Khadafy, they are suddenly free to rule themselves. In Benghazi, Libya's second-largest city and the cradle of the revolt, chants of jubilation are interspersed with quiet meetings. Neighborhood leaders are working to figure out such tasks as how to direct traffic and ensure utilities are up and running as they craft a plan for the future of the city. For guest workers and other expatriates, the future is no longer Libya. By the tens of thousands, they have been attempting to flee the violence, massing at ports as they await ships, overrunning the main airport,, and crossing by any means possible into Tunisia. Here's a look at one day -- Thursday -- in the life of those parts of Libya under rebel control. -- Paula Nelson


                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 03:15:26 PM EST
                    Associated Press

                    RAS AJDIR, Tunisia (AP) -- One Egyptian said he was forced to kneel in front of members of the Libyan army who carried out a mock execution. Another man locked himself in his home for five days, running low on supplies and hearing shots and screams outside. A group of Indian workers hid in the desert while awaiting a rescue plane.

                    Thousands of expatriate Egyptians, Indians, Turks and Tunisians crossed the border into Tunisia on Friday, and many of them appeared to be in shock. They carried their belongings and horrific memories of the violence tearing apart Moammar Gadhafi's Libya.

                    Tunisian aid groups offered them embraces, food and shelter.



                    Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                    by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 03:18:54 PM EST
                    aid groups offered them embraces, food and shelter

                    We forget how important the embraces are.

                    So, in what may be my last act of "advising", I'll advise you to cut the jargon. -- My old PhD advisor, to me, 26/2/11

                    by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 04:37:12 AM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon is droning away about the need for the UN to do something about Libya.

                    For christ's sakes, NEVER give a politician a microphone AND a world-wide live TV audience.  

                    She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                    by ATinNM on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 03:34:25 PM EST
                    ugh, he redefines mealy mouthed spineless stooginess, pure puppet, no-one home... hello!

                    'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty
                    by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 03:45:37 PM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    As long as China is afraid to set a precedent that could later be used against it (or at least satellite states like Myanmar), his hands are tied.

                    *Lunatic*, n.
                    One whose delusions are out of fashion.
                    by DoDo on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 04:08:27 PM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    Unfortunately.

                    So, in what may be my last act of "advising", I'll advise you to cut the jargon. -- My old PhD advisor, to me, 26/2/11
                    by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 04:36:21 AM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    Naval forces stationed in Benghazi has defected from the regime and joined the revolution.

                    Cannot find any information on what, if any, vessels are in port at this time.

                    She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                    by ATinNM on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 06:30:22 PM EST
                    Looking at the announcement

                    ... it looks like they are standing in front of a Koni Class Frigate.

                    If that is true AND it is operational (they got two and one isn't) non-operational - the revolution just got the most powerful warship in the Libyan navy.  

                    She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                    by ATinNM on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 06:47:44 PM EST
                    [ Parent ]
                    Videos coming out of Libya are showing the true horrors of war.

                    I don't have the heart to post.

                    Go: here and scroll down if you want to see them.

                    She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                    by ATinNM on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 07:46:15 PM EST
                    Gaddafi's hold weakens  Al Arabia

                    Gadaffi's cousin defects

                    The evidence that (Gadaffi) was losing ground included the defection to Egypt of a confidante, his cousin Ahmed Gaddaf al-Dam, which follows resignations in recent days by government ministers and diplomats. Army units, particularly in the eastern part of the country, have defected to the opposition, which may presage a civil war, a prospect raised by Gaddafi when last seen on state television Feb. 22.

                    "The possibility of civil war only exists if Gaddafi stays," Mohammed Ali Abdallah, deputy head of the National Front for the Salvation of Libya, the main exiled opposition group, said yesterday.


                    Gadaffi is pushing the line "Its me or chaos!" Most Libyans believe it is chaos if he remains.

                    Rasmussen: Alliance ready to act as "an enabler and coordinator"

                    NATO chief Anders Fogh Rasmussen called Friday for an emergency alliance meeting on Libya and said it was ready to act as "an enabler and coordinator" if member states take action.

                    "I have called for an emergency meeting in the North Atlantic Council today to discuss Libya," Rasmussen wrote on his Twitter account, referring to the alliance's political decision-making body.

                    "The situation in Libya is of great concern. NATO can act as an enabler and coordinator if and when member states will take action," he wrote ahead of a meeting with EU defense ministers in Godollo, Hungary.
                    Possible no-fly zone on Libya

                    EU nations are preparing to take part in a possible no-fly zone over Libya to prevent Gaddafi from bombing protesters, an EU diplomat said Friday.

                    European Union governments are making "contingency plans" to police Libyan airspace but "the EU needs a U.N. Security Council resolution first," the diplomat said on condition of anonymity.


                    They could be preparing in case events demand action - such as use of chemical or biological weapons - but if they act it will almost certainly not be under UN auspices.


                    "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
                    by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 10:51:23 PM EST
                    LibyanYouthMovement (ShababLibya) on Twitter
                    1. Also Please note, Ahmed Gaddaf Al Dam has a lot of blood on his hands and has planned a lot for gaddafi we will not forgive #Libya #Feb17 about 1 hour ago via web
                      • Also source tells me Ahmed Gaddaf Al Dam is still working for gaddafi from outside, he is yet to denounce his actions or his tribe #Libya about 1 hour ago via web


                      *Lunatic*, n.
                      One whose delusions are out of fashion.
                      by DoDo on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 06:56:04 AM EST
                      [ Parent ]
                      Gadaffi...will do what Hitler did -- he will take his own life," - Former Justice Minister  Al Arabia

                      (Stockholm) Muammar Gaddafi will commit suicide the way Adolf Hitler did at the end of World War II rather than surrender or flee, a former Libyan cabinet minister told a Swedish newspaper in an interview published on Thursday.

                      "Gaddafi's days are numbered. He will do what Hitler did -- he will take his own life," former Justice Minister Mustafa Mohammed Abd al-Jalil told Expressen in an interview in al-Bayda.

                      ...

                      Jalil resigned this week in protest at violence used by the government against demonstrators opposed to Gaddafi. The leader is battling to preserve his 41-year rule.


                      He does have rather limited options for asylum.

                      "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
                      by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 11:04:09 PM EST
                      Mubarak and Ben Ali might escape claims of crimes against humanity, but Gaddafi has been egregious. I don't think any Arab country would give him asylum like Saudi Arabia has done for the other two.

                      So, in what may be my last act of "advising", I'll advise you to cut the jargon. -- My old PhD advisor, to me, 26/2/11
                      by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 04:33:40 AM EST
                      [ Parent ]
                      How were his relations with Syria lately?

                      *Lunatic*, n.
                      One whose delusions are out of fashion.
                      by DoDo on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 06:48:52 AM EST
                      [ Parent ]
                      That would be a cozy exile!

                      "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
                      by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 10:08:32 AM EST
                      [ Parent ]
                      Live Blog - Libya Feb 26 | Al Jazeera Blogs
                      A charter aircraft dispatched by the Canadian government on Friday to pick up its citizens fleeing the violence in Libya left Tripoli with only its crew aboard after it could not find any Canadians waiting at the airport.


                      Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                      by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 06:41:46 AM EST
                      Live Blog - Libya Feb 26 | Al Jazeera Blogs

                      The UN Security Council is set to meet today to consider a sanctions resolution against Gaddafi. 

                      Britain, France, Germany and the US have drawn up a resolution that says the attacks on civilians in Libya could amount to crimes against humanity.

                      The resolution calls for an arms embargo and a travel ban and assets freeze against the Libyan leader.



                      Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                      by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 06:48:41 AM EST
                      BBC News - LIVE: Libya revolt
                      1127: Finance columnist for the UK's Daily Telegraph Jeremy Warner tweets: "Top end of London property market apparently v busy again. Lots of Middle Eastern buyers. Wonder why."


                      Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                      by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 06:55:36 AM EST
                      BBC News - LIVE: Libya revolt
                      BBC Monitoring notes that the Libyan state news agency, Jana, has not filed anything since 1826 GMT on Friday. Not that it was saying much about the unrest, anyway.


                      Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                      by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 06:56:11 AM EST
                      BBC News - LIVE: Libya revolt
                      Flash from Reuters: Italy's Prime Minister, Silvio Berlusconi, has said it seems that Col Gaddafi is no longer in control of Libya. Mr Berlusconi has been one of the colonel's few friends among European leaders.


                      Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                      by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 06:56:49 AM EST
                      [ Parent ]
                      BBC News - LIVE: Libya revolt
                      BBC Monitoring notes that the Libyan state news agency, Jana, has not filed anything since 1826 GMT on Friday. Not that it was saying much about the unrest, anyway.


                      Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                      by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 06:59:11 AM EST
                      [ Parent ]
                      For instance, Croatia


                      So, in what may be my last act of "advising", I'll advise you to cut the jargon. -- My old PhD advisor, to me, 26/2/11
                      by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 10:55:52 AM EST
                      Associated Press via google: About 15,000 war veterans, others rally in Croatian capital of Zagreb
                      Croatian police clashed with some of the 15,000 anti-government protesters who rallied in the capital Saturday, and state television reported that officers used tear gas to disperse the group. At least 25 people were injured.

                      ...

                      The protests in Zagreb come just two days after several hundred protesters clashed with police at another anti-government rally. Many Croats blame the government for economic hardship and alleged corruption.

                      At another Zagreb square, thousands protested peacefully against the government and in support of a Croat war veteran awaiting extradition to Serbia in a Bosnian prison. They carried banners reading "Croat defenders are heroes" and "Stop the prosecution of Croat defenders."

                      ...

                      About 1,000 people gathered at a similar protest in the eastern town of Osijek, demanding the government's ouster, Hina reported. The agency said that protest was organized through Facebook as was the rally in Zagreb on Thursday.

                      It's a little rich that war veterans are demonstrating against an HDZ government.

                      So, in what may be my last act of "advising", I'll advise you to cut the jargon. -- My old PhD advisor, to me, 26/2/11
                      by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 02:11:22 PM EST
                      [ Parent ]
                      4:20pm: South African cartoonist, satirist and social commentator Zapiro charts an alternate Oscar ceremony.  Via Al Jazeera



                      "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

                      by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 11:00:25 AM EST
                      Martin Chulov (martinchulov) on Twitter
                      1. All towns between Benghazi and Ras Lusafa in total oppn control. Every govt building along the way burned. #libya #feb17 less than a minute ago via web
                        • Went to site of crashed Libyan air force jet today. Pilot refused to bomb oil depots & ejected. One bomb wedged in sand. #libya


                        Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                        by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 11:52:39 AM EST
                        Apparently Blair has rung up Ghadaffi, and delivered a last chance to step down and leave the country warning.

                        Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                        by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 11:53:33 AM EST
                        [ Parent ]
                        Martin Chulov (martinchulov) on Twitter
                        Scene of crashed Libyan jet is 10km off highway, 15km north of Bregga. Sure to be independence landmark for generations. #libya #feb17


                        Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                        by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 12:04:40 PM EST
                        [ Parent ]
                        ceebs, do you know the location of the Charles de Gaulle?

                        There has been enough time for military staffs to plan and position the air power needed to enforce a No-Fly Zone.  Thinking they would want at least two aircraft carriers within operational range.


                        She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                        by ATinNM on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 12:25:52 PM EST
                        [ Parent ]
                        Docked in Toulon last Monday, back from a tour of duty off Pakistan. How available that would make it couldn't say, but there's no noise in France about using it.
                        by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 12:40:26 PM EST
                        [ Parent ]
                        Thanks.

                        That's enough time to get it re-supplied and ready for sea.  

                        The "no news" isn't surprising and doesn't tell us much, either way.  If they were planning to use it standard operational security procedures would keep the news 'tight.'  If they aren't, there's no news to give out.  ;-)

                        She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                        by ATinNM on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 12:53:27 PM EST
                        [ Parent ]
                        ATinNM:
                        standard operational security procedures would keep the news 'tight.'

                        This is Sarkozistan, where gesticulation is all.

                        by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Feb 27th, 2011 at 05:02:12 AM EST
                        [ Parent ]
                        Sorry Im a bit in and out, My father collapsed a couple of days Ago, so Ive been back and forward to hospital. so im missing a lot at the moment

                        Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                        by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 02:52:13 PM EST
                        [ Parent ]
                        sorry to hear that ceebs, take good care...

                        'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty
                        by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 03:02:56 PM EST
                        [ Parent ]
                        Shadab Libya:

                        We believe that the 3 cities left under gaddafi are Tripoli Sebha and Sirte his home town, the rest of Libya can not be reclaimed.

                        BTW, if you want to go "direct" The Libyan Youth Movement is a good site.

                        She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                        by ATinNM on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 11:58:36 AM EST
                        Al Jazeera reporting the UN has ordered a war crimes probe into Gadaffi's actions.

                        She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
                        by ATinNM on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 01:00:03 PM EST
                        Hmmmm heard that that was the sticking point, the non signatories of the Rome treaty were worried about setting a precedent about using the ICC

                        Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                        by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 02:48:37 PM EST
                        [ Parent ]
                        Commander of Libyan Special Forces ordering all special forces soldiers to return to their units and "guard the gains of the Feb 17th Revolution."

                        (AJ English)


                        She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                        by ATinNM on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 01:05:04 PM EST
                        Reports of tight clamp-down in Tripoli.  Mercenaries are in cars and SUVs driving around, not staying in one place, and shooting at anyone seen on a street, protester or not.

                        Gadaffi is arming Libyan loyalists in Sirte (his hometown) and is moving some of them towards Tripoli. AJ English reporting there may be as many as 4,000 armed loyalists in Sirte.  

                        Shaping up to be ugly.  Gadaffi turned the non-violent protests into an armed revolution and is now creating the basis for a civil war, which could easily generate political problems for Libya that will persist for decades after he is gone.  

                        She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

                        by ATinNM on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 01:23:24 PM EST
                        Live Blog - Libya Feb 26 Al Jazeera

                        7:05pm  AJE correspondent reports that anti-government protesters have attacked black Africans in Libya, taking them for mercenaries.

                        Seidou Boubaker Jallou and his friend, both from Mali, fled for their lives by night to the Tunisian border. They said the roads out of the West are still in the hands of those loyal to Gaddafi. Jallou says:

                           The situation is very dangerous - every day there are more than a hundred who die - every day - every day there are shootings - the most dangerous situation is for foreigners like us - and also us black people - Because Gaddafi brought soldiers from Chad from Niger - they are black and they are killing Arabs.


                        "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
                        by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 02:22:36 PM EST
                        Gaddafi's Ukrainian "Love Interest" Nurse Deserts Deranged Dictator  Zero Hedge

                        Following the departure of Gadaffi's private jet pilot, Odd Birger Johansen, who quietly left the country two days ago, the latest to flee the sinking ship is none other than the dictator's favorite Ukrainian nurse Galyna Kolotnytska, who has taken her leave from Tripoli permanently. The approximately 38 year old nurse was first exposed in WikiLeaks cables which Zero Hedge referenced previously here. The fact that Galyna was so close to the dictator and was a potential "love interest" apparently in no way increased her resolve to pull an Eva Braun and join Gaddafi when he finally realizes the end is nigh. And while Gaddafi will be able to do without sponge baths for a day or two, it may prove (more difficult) to replace the pilot of a jet already supposedly loaded up with gold and ready to go, on such short notice.


                        His Norwegian pilot flew to Vienna on a commercial flight, taking his wife and child but leaving Gadaffi's private plane. See ZH article for links.

                        "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
                        by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 02:46:32 PM EST
                        The above is the "before" picture, possibly from her student days. I saw a brief shot of her on NBC News last night and it appears her time in Libya has had an effect. Not surprising, really. I wonder if her real role recently was more that of his personal neuro-psycho-pharmacologist.

                        "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
                        by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Feb 27th, 2011 at 02:18:28 PM EST
                        [ Parent ]
                        Nicholas Kristof (NickKristof) on Twitter
                        iyad_elbaghdadi I just got confirmation that the border town of Wazin (right on the #Libya-Tunisia border) has joined the revolution.


                        Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                        by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 02:53:40 PM EST
                        BBC News - Libya: UN Security Council votes sanctions on Gaddafi

                        The UN Security Council has voted unanimously to impose sanctions on Muammar Gaddafi's Libyan regime for its attempts to put down an uprising.

                        They backed an arms embargo and asset freeze while referring Colonel Gaddafi to the International Criminal Court for alleged crimes against humanity.

                        US President Barack Obama has said the Libyan leader should step down and leave the country immediately.

                        He still controls Tripoli, but eastern Libya has fallen to the uprising.

                        Discussions on forming an anti-Gaddafi transitional government are reportedly under way.



                        Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                        by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sun Feb 27th, 2011 at 07:15:58 AM EST
                        Apparently radio broadcasts are taking place into Libya saying that following any orders by the regime may be considered a war crime. On the back of this Vienna Convention protections (Diplomatic immunity) for Ghadaffi as head of state have been removed in the UK, (I assume public announcements in other countries will occur soon)

                        Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                        by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sun Feb 27th, 2011 at 07:24:09 AM EST
                        [ Parent ]
                        Oh in the UK Hague has signed an order revoking diplomatic immunity for him, his family and his household.

                        Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                        by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sun Feb 27th, 2011 at 07:35:41 AM EST
                        [ Parent ]
                        Martin Chulov (martinchulov) on Twitter
                        1. Rebels over-ran Zawiya west of Tripoli. vital breakthrough. Only Sirte in central #libya stopping them joining from west. about 1 hour ago via web
                          • Fishermen at Benghazi port said 2 boats traveling west hit by missiles filed from Sirte. That rules out Tripoli by sea then. #libya about 1 hour ago via web
                            • Saw pics of a scud missile seized by rebels today. Three more now in opposition hands near Benghazi. #libya about 1 hour ago via web
                              • Visited mil bases on road to central Libya. amount of weapons stolen staggering. These revolutionaries v well armed. #libya about 5 hours ago via web
                                • The Ghaddafi stronghold of Sirte is preventing people traveling west to Tripoli. Could be last place in #Libya to fall.


                                Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sun Feb 27th, 2011 at 07:34:46 AM EST
                                BBC News - Libya uprising: Anti-Gaddafi forces take Zawiya

                                Forces fighting to oust the Libyan leader Col Muammar Gaddafi have seized the city of Zawiya, 50km (30 miles) from the capital, Tripoli.

                                The Libyan government took journalists to Zawiya on Sunday morning.

                                But instead of a show of government force, reporters saw opposition fighters manning the barricades in the city centre and flying their flag.

                                Tripoli remains in the control of Col Gaddafi, who is facing the biggest challenge to his 41-year rule.

                                Pro-Gaddafi forces are encircling Zawiya, which saw fierce fighting last week.



                                Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sun Feb 27th, 2011 at 07:36:25 AM EST
                                [ Parent ]
                                Sirte is Gadiffi's home base for tribal affiliation. But there is a road that goes around it to the south. It may be open, but not secure. It would appear that there is some well organized regime loyalists in Sirte. They can hit boats with missiles. The question is: do the revolutionaries have any intact crews for scuds, etc. But tanks and mobile artillery could make things unpleasant for loyalists in Sirte - if they didn't have to worry about air strikes. So the effectiveness of air defense battalions on both sides could become important.

                                "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
                                by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Feb 27th, 2011 at 02:28:54 PM EST
                                [ Parent ]
                                peter beaumont (petersbeaumont) on Twitter
                                1. #libya bonkers seeing all same faces at this pro gaddafi rally as at last and driving cars round where we are parked in a circle v silly about 2 hours ago via Mobile Web
                                  • As many cars of people fleeing to tunis as demonstrators in this town and yes some people here were at previous demo about 3 hours ago via Mobile Web
                                    • Not clear from what seeing how much countrside each side controls respectively both pro and anti have territoy round capital about 3 hours ago via Mobile Web
                                      • Heading to another city and ppro gaddafi demo seems to be following in cars presumably to attend next rally well be shown about 3 hours ago via Mobile Web
                                        • Rebels in zawaiyah described as al qaeda by gov but I met docs teachers engineers not radical


                                        Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
                                        by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sun Feb 27th, 2011 at 11:43:49 AM EST


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