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Croatia to reject EU accession Sunday?

by SteelLady Sat Jan 21st, 2012 at 07:36:54 PM EST

Thinking about the whole picture right now, I am trying to analyze total interests here; on the EU´s part  and on Croatia's.

First, in the current crisis does the EU have the interest for Croatia to join the EU? As I see it, certainly not. The EU does not need another Greece, which is a very probable scenario if Croatia enters. And the Union probably does not feel like investing a lot in the development of Croatia in the situation we are in right now. On the other hand, if Croatia enters, does somebody have something to loose? For example Germany, always presenting itself as a big friend and supporter of Croatia. As recently as a couple of months ago Mrs Merkel visited Croatia and commented that Croatia is not so open to German investment as it once was and that the fact 'could reflect on German support for Croatia in the EU'. Germans invest a lot, or better said own a lot in Croatia. Recently I tried to take my money from Croatia and bring it to Spain to buy a flat. So I found out that there is NO WAY to transfer my money from Croatia to any country in the world without paying a nice comission to Deutsche Bank. What would happen with that fact if Croatia enters EU? In general, Germany always presented itself as Coatia's spokesperson and mediator. One might ask what interest do they have in that?

Croatia, apart from Turkey, endured I think the longest preparation process in history for entering the EU. Adjusting the laws, firing many people in the process of reforming the shipyards and other government-supported firms, looking for evidence that would help the court in The Hague to convict the generals who liberated previously occupied Croatian territory, enduring the Slovenian blackmail about the borders and some other blackmails also. And the last, but not the least, forcefully maintaining the exchange rate between kuna end euro for all these years which has almost exhausted all the national reserves and slowly messed up an already badly underdeveloped economy affected also by mass firings in one of the principal still functioning industries (shipbuilding) and by the crisis. Now, the damage is done and probably it would be in Croatia's interest to enter and try to benefit from the membership already paid.

After the parliamentary elections held recently and the change of the government from right-oriented Croatian Democratic Union (HDZ) to left-oriented coalition, almost all political parties, except for never much voted extremist Croatian Party of Rights support Croatian accesion. Despite all their lobbying, in the last 10 days suddenly majority of people seem to lean towards voting against.

There could be various reasons for it. One of them is pride. People feel being used, forced to adapt to what 'the big guys' tell them, and not being sure in  which way they could benefit in that Union now, after lowering their pants. Also there are some that surely would not benefit in any way because they just live in their villages, receiving their pensions that would never be enough to pay them any trip not even within the country and much less abroad, so the Union would not have any contact with their lives. They probably have had some neighbours once who, like me and many others, left the country and the poor perspectives and made their lives abroad. Those who stayed, somehow think that the good life was given to those who left like manna from Heaven and they are not too eager to help to those lucky bastards avoid immigrant procedures, visa renovations and tougher airport controls, by voting 'yes'. The scepticism among the older people would be more easily understood but among the people I know, mostly in their 30ies, all of them in Croatia will vote against while people abroad will not vote due to their technical difficulties. Now, younger people should be more open-minded informing themselves over the Internet and often from unknown sources.

While the most polls lately say that Croatia will vote 'no' and some American media commented on it, what did European politicians say? Nothing yet it seems? But I do not doubt they would be secretly happy when Croatia refuses membership. I understood that even some Croats working in the EU Parliament got some email sent to their official European Parliament account by British eurosceptic activists warning them that they should be 'better' informed about the negatives of EU membership. I started even wondering if some other external 'supporters' contributed to  Croatian fear of being 'eaten up' by the big Union sharks if they enter despite all the positive lobbying from croatian political parties. And some of those supporters could be publicly 'genuinely surprised'  tomorrow when the results come out.


Poll
What do you think:
. a) Croatia should say yes and Europe wants it 14%
. b) Croatia should say 'yes' although some countries actually do not want it 42%
. c) Croatia should say 'no' despite european wishes 14%
. d)Croatia should say 'no' because nobody is in favour, we are in the doo doo and everything is hopeless 28%

Votes: 7
Results | Other Polls
Display:
I vote yes, because nobody wants it, we're in the doo doo, everything is hopeless, but Croatia has already endured all the economic pain of membership without any of the benefits, and joining would at least give Croatia the full rights of membership.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jan 22nd, 2012 at 05:37:18 AM EST
This seems to be a good roundup of what various prominent personalities have said about Croatia's referendum> Croatia EU membership referendum campaigns: Blackmail and sweet-talk (Yes to EU) Vs sovereignty and self-determination (No to EU).

Sweet talk:

Neven Mimica, Croatia's deputy Prime Minister: "Membership in EU is an opportunity of the millennium which we need to take for the future of Croatian generations".
Blackmail:
Vesna Pusic, Croatia's Foreign Minister: " I wouldn't want to be too cruel, but if we don't enter the Union, you're not going to receive your pension."
Sovereignty
Tomislav Kosic: "Croatia would lose its sovereignty and would be governed by neo-liberal capitalists ... Croatia's farmers may not be able to compete in the larger agricultural community in older EU nations".
Self-determination
Ivica Marijacic: "Keep in your sight the advantages and disadvantages and make a responsible decision. By all means remember the innocent generals Gotovina and Cermak, and if you think that this is a minor concession worthy of EU, ask yourself, would you hand over a member of your family for a promise of a better life".
Ironically, it appears Gotovina is in favour of accesion.
I call all the Croatian citizens to vote their conscience in the referendum. Hereby, I want to state that I'll vote `YES' in tomorrow's referendum. Croatia belongs to Europe by its culture and civilization, so the referendum is just a formal confirmation. The EU is the place for Croatia.
Compare physics crackpot extraordinaire Davor Pavuna:
Prof. dr. sc. Davor Pavuna: "To trust in the fairness of EU-bureaucrats is to trust Dracula with the transfusion of one's own blood - the lasting solution for EU is a Europe of sovereign nations".


tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jan 22nd, 2012 at 06:31:14 AM EST
First results are up: 67.07% For, 32.36% Against, 0.57% not valid; all of this 25.93% counted. However, turnout is an abysmal 35.21%, if I am interpreting it right.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Jan 22nd, 2012 at 02:04:49 PM EST
By contrast, in the Croatian independence referendum in May 1991, 80% of the population voted.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jan 22nd, 2012 at 02:19:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
20 minutes later, it's 51.94% counted, and turnout jumped to 40.09% (while the For vote is little changed at 66.77%). Another rural-urbanite contrast?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Jan 22nd, 2012 at 02:26:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Apparently, out of fear of a 'no' result, the recently elected government had changed the constitution a month ago to make a referendum with turnout below 50% "valid but not binding". (Source: tportal.hr) (Google translate version)

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jan 22nd, 2012 at 02:32:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In Hungary, there was a similar modification prior to the NATO accession referendum, but that made a referendum binding if the majority opinion was at least 25% of all eligible voters. (Both NATO and EU accession passed that way, with turnouts of 49.2% and 45.6% and approvals above 80%, which corresponded to 41.5% resp. 38% of all eligible voters.)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Jan 22nd, 2012 at 02:47:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If you sum up all public employees in Croatia who hope for the possibility to work in EU, plus politicians and people who live abroad, you get the number of those who voted 'yes'
by SteelLady on Sun Jan 22nd, 2012 at 03:08:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd like to see that sum.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Jan 22nd, 2012 at 03:16:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
UN: Croatia Public Administration Country Profile [PDF, 2005]

From table 1.4 on public sector employment and wages: 86k central government + 19.6k sub-national government + 55.9k education + 32.6k health + 40k police = 236k.

Particupation appears to be 1bout 1.9M out of 4M voters, so about 1.2M voted yes.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jan 22nd, 2012 at 03:45:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It all makes sense: 236k. You also have to add their families: multiplicate with three = 708k

The rest: politicians and their extended families, Croatians brainwashed abroad. Also: ACORN thugs and paid agents of the eurocrats crossing the border from Slovenia.

And I think the Bundesbank is involved.

by IM on Sun Jan 22nd, 2012 at 03:57:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's now 1.96 million voters and 1.30 million For.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Jan 22nd, 2012 at 04:37:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yup.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jan 22nd, 2012 at 04:41:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Now 93.02% counted, turnout rose to 43.41%, and approval is at 66.30% (or 28.78% of all eligible voters in precints counted).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Jan 22nd, 2012 at 03:14:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So, participation is greater than in Spain's 2005 referendum on the Lisbon Treaty (42% participation, of which 77% for)

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jan 22nd, 2012 at 04:04:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
At near-final 99.45% counted, turnout is 43.67%, and 66.27% For (28.94% of all eligible voters).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Jan 22nd, 2012 at 04:35:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Some reactions:

In Croatia:

Headlines: "Celebrating, although forcefully"
(Referring to the changed constitution so that 28% of eligible voters could conduct to entry)

People:
"The banks are 'ours' again!" :-) :-O

Greetings from Slovenians:
"We fucked up Yugoslavia together, well do it to Europe too!"

"You got the membership, we lost the tax refund!"

by SteelLady on Mon Jan 23rd, 2012 at 04:43:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Referring to the changed constitution so that 28% of eligible voters could conduct to entry

28.8% of eligible voters could have conducted an entry under the old rules, too (they would have been the majority at turnouts from 50 to 57.5%). On that regard, do you have a link to a page listing prior referenda in Croatia (if there were any other than the independence referendum), with turnouts and approval rates?

(Again in Hungary, there was a referendum on the parliamentary election of the President of the Republic in 1989, in which the victorious For side had a 50.07% majority of valid votes when turnout was 58.03%, and that was 27.5% of all eligible voters.)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Mon Jan 23rd, 2012 at 05:07:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No, here wasn't any other referendum since the intependence and it was considered that the decision made by less than 50% of voters is not really in their interest.
by SteelLady on Mon Jan 23rd, 2012 at 06:49:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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