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Das Gold des Nibelungen

by Carrie Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 09:19:58 AM EST

From today's Salon comes a story straight out of an old war movie or Indiana Jones (h/t Sam for the similes): German court of auditors wants Bundesbank to count gold at Fort Knox (Eurointelligence daily briefing, 23.10.2012)

Paranoia hit a new extreme in the form of an official report urging the German central bank to have formal audits of its foreign-held gold reserves; report was triggered by MPs acting on rumours that the German gold stock has disappeared, or replace by certificates of unknown gold quality (Greek bonds for example); no, it is not April 1; acting on the criticism, the Bundesbank already audited domestically held reserves; it yesterday released court of auditor report with blacked-out details; Bundesbank says it has no doubt about the integrity of its gold holdings in the US, the UK and France, but seeks to repatriate samples of its gold holding to check for quality; ... Paul de Grauwe, meanwhile, says the Bundesbank undermines the ECB in order to bring about a German departure from the eurozone.


More detail from Eurointelligence:

This is the most hilarious story in our area we have come across in a long time. Suddeutsche's front page lead is that the German court of auditors has asked the Bundesbank to weigh all the gold after German MPs acted on rumours that the German gold might no longer be there, or replaced by some certificates.
Weighing the gold!? Haven't the German MPs heard of Archimedes and his bathtub? (Then again, ignoring Archimedes is probably sound thinking, as Archimedes was a Sicilian Greek. You can't trust Mediterranean Science.)
The Bundesbank duly counted and weighed all the 82857 gold bars stored in Frankfurt, some 1100 tons. MPs were even allowed in the cellar to see if the gold is still there.
Good, you should be able to see the gold with your lying eyes!
In an ultimate act of desperation, the Bundesbank is even considering to let journalists inside the vaults.
Journalists, the last bulwarks of intellectual honesty!
The problem is only that the gold held outside Germany has not been audited. There are no official figures, but Suddeutsche estimates about 1500 tonnes are held by the Fed, and about 800 tonnes by the central banks of England and France. The total value is some €133bn. The court of auditors has now demanded regular audits of Germany's foreign gold reserves. The last audits from New York were from 1979/1980. The Bundesbank has since been let into the vault, but not allowed to open the boxes in which the bars are stored, something that has obviously stoke[d] suspicions.
Oh, dear, I wonder what shenanigans the people at Fort Knox might be up to.
The Bundesbank has released the court of auditors statement, with several parts being blacked out, presumably given the continued official secrecy about the location of Germany's gold reserves. The Bundesbank insisted that there is no doubt about the integrity of the foreign depots warning that the doubt itself could have considerable political implications. As a sign of goodwill, Suddeutsche writes, the Bundesbank wants to repatriate 50m tons from abroad, melt it and test the quality.
Right, because physics hasn't progressed beyond having to melt the gold to ascertain its purity (the reasons to ignore Archimedes are obvious and given abouve). I suppose one could use x-ray or neutron diffraction, or Nuclear Magnetic Resonance to test the integrity of the bars down to atomic level. Luckily for Germany, DESY in Hamburg should be able to do this, so it wouldn't be necessary for the Bundesbank to rely on the French (gasp) Institut Laue-Langevin for the analysis. One might think CERN could be an option, being in Switzerland and all, but it's not under control of the Zurich gnomes, but it's a mongrel institution full of physicists of disreputable nationality, and in French (gasp) speaking Geneva to boot. In any case, all this modern physics is not for real Germans, what would Siegfried have done? Surely melt the gold bars.
In an editorial, Suddeutsche writes that the gates should be opened for inspections. (yes, no kidding!).

(We are just trying to picture Jens Weidmann opening a vault in Fort Knox and discovering an IOU with a smiley on it. It is hard to beat this story in term "we were robbed" type paranoia. It also has a certain Götterdämmerung quality. We wonder how the Fed, the BoE, and the BoF reacts to these allegations, which are, after all, fuelled by the German court of auditors, an official institution of the German state. The Fed may respond by just sending the gold back to Frankfurt - that is if it is still there of course!)

Before we start feeling too sorry for Weidmann, who appears to be the sane adult in this story, let's recall that he's the guy who likened Mario Draghi to Mephistopheles who, in Goethe's Faust II (apparently the creation myth of the Bundesbank), famously convinces the Kaiser to use paper money rather than gold, to disastrous effect.

It couldn't happen to a nicer German central banker, really. It serves him right for stoking hyperinflation hysteria in the middle of a depression. Here's Paul de Grauwe's article mentioned by Eurointelligence: Stop this campaign against ECB policy (FT.com, 22 October 2012)

This guerrilla warfare by the Bundesbank president is based on a failure to understand the role of a central bank in a modern economy. Central banks were created to deal with the endemic problem of financial capitalism: its instability and the impact this has on the banking system. This has led to the consensus that the central bank should be a lender of last resort in the banking system to ensure that the bubbles and crashes that are part and parcel of capitalism do not bring down the banking system.

Should this role of lender of last resort also be extended to the government? It must be, if financial stability is to be maintained, because the sovereign and the banks hold each other in a deadly embrace. When the banking system collapses, this threatens the solvency of the sovereign. When the sovereign defaults on its debt, it pulls the banks into default. This means that the banking sector cannot be stabilised if the sovereign is unstable. A central bank that wishes to stabilise the banking sector is condemned to also stabilise the government bond market. Failure to do so leads to a banking crisis, forcing the central bank to provide huge amounts of liquidity to banks that it refuses to provide to the sovereign.

Standalone countries such as the US and the UK understand this and have an implicit contract between the government and the central bank, whereby the latter will always provide liquidity to the government in times of crisis. Without such a contract, financial stability cannot be guaranteed.

What Paul de Grauwe appears to forget is that Jens Weidmann is on the record (and not at a cocktail party, but at his Bundesbank inauguration speech) that financial stability is not a primary concern of his:
New Bundesbank president Jens Weidman was official enthroned yesterday; indicates his main focus would be to watch over, and comment on, German government's fiscal policy; says price stability must take precedence over financial stability.
<facepalm>

Display:
As Starvid put it once
Reminds me of Pratchetts Auditors of Reality.


I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 09:21:08 AM EST
Have they started dumping PCP in the water supply over there or something?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 04:54:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe colloidal gold.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 05:01:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Bring out the Swiss chocolate coins!

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 05:36:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm struggling to make any kind of polite comment.

Just what is going on - have we lost all sense of sanity?

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 09:23:44 AM EST
The funny thing is, if I stop and think for a moment about conversations with some young middle class German friends, this was entirely predictable.

The ongoing media onslaught has convinced them that there is no good future and that they and their country are mired in a zero-sum fight to the death. They believe a cataclysm is coming, they talk in terms of learning to shoot guns and defend a cellar full of tinned food.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 09:59:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What? The German middle class is more hopeless than the Irish? WTF?

I mean, I half-joke about the Germans being the Americans of Europe, but ... wow.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 10:05:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
On the one hand, anecdotes are not data - on the other hand there are definite signs of a collapse of faith. Maybe only outliers are talking in end of society terms, but there's definitely a wider sense of "zero sum" taking over.
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 10:29:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
When one hears anecdotal reports that a West Coast US venture capitalist, for more than 20 years, has been acting on the belief that opportunities for legitimate investing are drying up and the only sane policy to follow is to extract and protect as much wealth as possible, perhaps we should consider that there might be some legitimate concern for the effects this might have. Most economists don't really seem to acknowledge that there are different modes of behavior that occur in financial markets when fear, instead of greed, comes to dominate. This is especially true when the fear is for the long term.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 10:55:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I could write a book.

Basically, the informing paradigms for computer technology have gone as far as they can go.  In order to leap to greater functionality a re-think and re-design is necessary.  Computer people are refusing to re-think, VCs are refusing to fund re-designs.  Thus, stagnation.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 11:16:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
VCs are refusing to fund re-designs

The previous revolution wasn't kick-started by venture capital but by public funding.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 11:18:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You win a lollypop:

There's small innovation and large innovation.  VCs focus on small innovation because big innovation is too risky because big innovation doesn't have a foreseeable, thus computable, market value.  (Ignoring the fact the forecasts are mostly a bunch of baloney.)  The state has to fund big innovation as it is the only one who can afford to assume the risk, partially due to the fact the state receives the "profit" from the investments through higher employment numbers, larger long-term tax revenues, greater micro-economic activity, & etc.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 11:34:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, pretty much everything we have today was demonstrated by Douglas Engelbart in 1968.
by Number 6 on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 11:43:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Englebart based his demo from ideas presented in a 1945 Atlantic Monthly article by Vannevar Bush.

If one gets into the history of cybernetics one quickly discovers how little original thought has gone into non-numerical computational systems.  For all intents and purposes there hasn't been that much change since the Analytical Engine, which informed Howard Aiken at Harvard University when he headed the team designing the Mark I.

(In 19-f.....g-43!)

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 12:05:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hadn't seen this. Thanks.
Slight Popular Mechanics "jetpacks for all" positive futuristic feel.
by Number 6 on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 12:09:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is there any hope?
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 12:10:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes.  It's what I and a couple of other people have been working on since 1987 ... with a certain degree of success - if I can be egotist and smugly triumphal about it.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 12:21:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Diary! (If you can).

My impression (from an introductory course) is that quantum computing might force a redesign from the bottom up which gives hope for improvement. But a) quantum computing is a long way from anything that can be used widely, and b) perhaps ways can be found to avoid having to redesign in which case it probably will be avoided.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 03:11:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We're in stealth mode and I can't talk details.  Without details it sounds like a bunch of techno-babble.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 03:23:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Figures.

Well good luck and diary when you can. Sure sounds interesting.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 03:27:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Computer people are refusing to re-think...

In Economics that is not the problem. Steve Keen is doing spectacular work, even as his situation dissolves beneath him. But there are so few in the economics field who are interested in his work. Bill Mitchell probably has the same problem. The economics profession, as a hole, is resolutely obtuse on the need for something much better than DSGE. And that doesn't even need a new computing paradgim, though it could well greatly benefit from one.

But perhaps you are referring to hybrid systems incorporating arrays of analog computers providing feedback to an array of multi-thread digital systems. The third and fourth significant digit is largely irrelevant for lots and lots of real world applications, if you get the first two right.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 01:59:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The economics profession, as a hole

Priceless.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 02:47:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Bottomless.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 03:34:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
They should stop digging.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 03:35:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But dig is what they are paid to do.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Oct 24th, 2012 at 03:07:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Dig for gold, surely?

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Oct 24th, 2012 at 04:00:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Just dig a hole - so long as they don't discover anything that would threaten the status quo. It is dangerous to threaten the interests of the powerful, so just keep digging. All agree that the hole they are working in is a safe hole. Careers and families are at stake. It is safer and more comfortable to just not think about the futility of the hole they are in.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Oct 24th, 2012 at 11:07:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That too.

The carefully forgotten fact is:  there are only analog computational systems and we pretend they are digital.

:-)

I don't know what, if anything, is being done with FETs & etc.  Intuitively, analog would be More Better for iterative applications since one doesn't have to worry as much about mantissa truncation and can sample values at different rates, time steps, and bit widths.  

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 02:56:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
For a long time I have had this project of experimenting with analog computing using basic elecrtonic components. But I never had much time and for a project that didn't seem to promise any foreseeable rewards.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 03:18:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A working, easily programmable, analog/digital hybrid cybernetic device would be a Big Innovation and as I said elsewhere, there's no financially valid way to predict a market for Big Innovations.  And the sad truth is a superior product does not translate into a commercially successful product.  Get too far ahead of perceived need and the thing will fail.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 03:32:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not sure I fully comprehend the first part of your post AT, but the last two sentences sure ring true. In some/most matters, timing is everything.
by sgr2 on Wed Oct 24th, 2012 at 12:12:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Which part of the first part didn't you comprehend?

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Wed Oct 24th, 2012 at 02:38:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Honest question.  Wasn't meant to be snippy.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Wed Oct 24th, 2012 at 03:00:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh no, I didn't think you were being snippy.

But I've learned over the years that just because one lives with a software developer doesn't necessarily mean one understands all the lingo. I got lost there with "A working, easily programmable, analog/digital hybrid cybernetic device" ... which didn't actually translate in my mind to something easily recognizable, say, like, a Chanel bouclé jacket or something. That's all.

The last two sentences made perfect sense though. Even to a non-techy person like me. Sorry if I confused you.

by sgr2 on Wed Oct 24th, 2012 at 03:57:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A hybrid machine would have both analog and digital computing circuits.  

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Thu Oct 25th, 2012 at 01:11:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Another hybrid would be the system of a user + online computer - the problem is that neither of the major components really understands the other. The user part won't change for another 1000 generations. Computers are Mooresing along comfortably. What we need to fix is how they talk to each other.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Oct 25th, 2012 at 01:31:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well fuck a duck ... I think you nailed it.

High bred or low bred, "the problem is that neither of the major components/people really understands the other. What we need to fix is how they talk to each other."

Solve that little problem and may be there is hope.

by sgr2 on Thu Oct 25th, 2012 at 04:53:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I owe it all to the Don Juan (Matus Matematicus) of New Mexico.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 02:26:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I have a pretty good synergy with google search, myself...

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Oct 25th, 2012 at 07:06:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ok then. Thanks for the explanation.
by sgr2 on Thu Oct 25th, 2012 at 04:36:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So, an analog computer connected to a digital computer using an analog to digital converter?

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Oct 25th, 2012 at 07:06:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The (half-baked) idea is two or three hundred analog and digital processors hooked in parallel and series to simulate nuclei and cortical structures.  With fully operational digital computers running $25 a pop the digital side could be brought in for under $10,000.  The problem is the analog side.  There isn't a lot of work being done with Analog designs.  From here:

Many powerful biological and man-made systems contain inherently analog processing elements. Until recently there has been very little theoretical work on models of this type and many basic questions remain unresolved.

and what is seems to be focused on numerical computation rather than general purpose Information processing.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 02:34:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
By 'informing paradigms', do you mean Von Neumann architecture, i.e. Input/Output, storage, processing?
by Number 6 on Wed Oct 24th, 2012 at 11:24:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That and the reliance on Set Theory, Statistical-Mechanics, Exclusive Middle Logic, data typing, hard distinction between code and data, sequential operation ... to name a few.  These are all useful things to have in one's toolbox.  But they aren't the only available tools and sometimes they aren't the best tools.  

In my own work I've seen the same things cycle around about every 15 years with the claim, "This time it is different!"  Only to end in a whimper, "No it wasn't."

Easy example is the relative value of positions on an 8 by 8 matrix, aka a chess board.  As the game progresses high value positions dwindle and low value positions rise in value with each, and more, dependent on the flow of the game, the "singularity" of the positions of pieces, specific pattern of pieces for each side, the relationship(s) of these patterns to the relative value of board position, & etc.  This can be captured, in some degree of success, using the Surreal Numbers (as I understand it) and not much at all using Real Numbers.  This kind of thing is even more important, as I understand it, in Go.  Where "silly" placements at the beginning of the Game turn-out to be critically important in the later stages.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Wed Oct 24th, 2012 at 02:30:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In real time situations requiring outputs representing numerous rapidly changing variables representable by differential equations and, especially where two or three significant digits resolution is sufficient, high bandwidth analog computers should have advantages. Or so it has always seemed to me.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Oct 24th, 2012 at 09:04:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Change of information paradigms was not necessary with that fast improvement in technology - Moore doublings of processor clock speeds, memory volume.

 Just take the corner field of CAGD, Computer Aided Geometric Design. There are several schemes with non-linear splines, smooth surfaces. But in practice, most applicaations are rendered with linear triangulations.

It will be more interesting when technological restrictions get tight (and  desire remains to fund science).

by das monde on Sat Oct 27th, 2012 at 08:25:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We're being smothered in the Data Avalanche.  And the Google link is a good example of it, both ways.  18,900,000 search results?  To plow through all those links, at 3 seconds per link, would take 65 days.  At a more reasonable 5 minutes average the search would take 179 years.  

Actually it would take an infinite amount of time.  We're using computers to create 50,000,000 books of information every six months not including other modes of communication: numerical data, SMS, mobile telephony, videos, radio, etc. etc.  Database people are struggling to manage petrabytes "a unit of information equal to 1000 terabytes or 10^15 bytes" with a cybernetic system designed to calculate artillery tables.

It's absurd.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Sat Oct 27th, 2012 at 12:51:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is anyone interested in knowing EVERYTHING? Most Internet users are very selective in what they look at. Information overflow only contributes to high selectiveness, stiff browsing patterns.
by das monde on Sun Oct 28th, 2012 at 06:47:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The ever helpful Hans Werner Sinn (of Target2 panic fame): Europe's Path to Disunity (Project Syndicate, 23 October 2012)
The decisions taken by the European Central Bank are a particularly dramatic example of this problem, taken as they are by a simple majority of a body that is not even democratically elected. The ECB's decisions lead to a massive redistribution of wealth and risk among the eurozone's member states, as well as from stable countries' taxpayers, who have little stake in the crisis, to global investors directly affected by it.

The ECB has been providing virtually all of its refinancing credit to the eurozone's five crisis-stricken countries: Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece, and Ireland. All the money circulating in the eurozone originated in these five countries and was then largely used to buy goods and assets in the northern member countries and redeem foreign debt taken from them.

...

The assertion that the eurozone could be transformed into a United States of Europe is no longer convincing. The path toward joint liability is far more likely to lead to a deep rift within Europe, because turning the eurozone into a transfer and debt union that can prevent the insolvency of any of its members would require more central power than currently exists in the US.



I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 10:06:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Can he really have said: All the money circulating in the eurozone originated in these five countries?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 10:30:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I suspect that is a mistranslation of an astoundingly bad choice of German wording:
Die EZB hat praktisch ihren gesamten Refinanzierungskredit den fünf Krisenländern des Euroraums - Italien, Spanien, Portugal, Griechenland und Irland - gegeben. Alles Geld, das in der Eurozone zirkuliert, wurde in den Krisenländern geschaffen und anschließend im Wesentlichen dafür genutzt, Waren und Vermögen in den Nordländern der Eurozone zu kaufen und Auslandsschulden zu tilgen. Die amerikanische Federal Reserve Bank dürfte nie eine solch unausgeglichene regionale Politik betreiben. Sie vergibt keinen Kredit an einzelne Bundesstaaten, schon gar nicht an solche, die, wie z.B. Kalifornien, kurz vor dem Bankrott stehen.
If I am allowed to practise my syntax, he talks of "ECB refinancing credit". and then he says "All [of that] money, circulating in the EU, created in those countries...".

But if that's a mistranslation, it has made its way at least into the Spanish and English versions of the article.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 10:34:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A bit like quoting "you didn't build that" and then forgetting the long paragraphs describing "that".
by Number 6 on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 11:01:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"Alles Geld, das in der Eurozone zirkuliert, wurde in den Krisenländern geschaffen und anschließend im Wesentlichen dafür genutzt, Waren und Vermögen in den Nordländern der Eurozone zu kaufen und Auslandsschulden zu tilgen"

All money circulating in the eurozone was created in the crisis countries  and then primarily used to buy goods and assets in the nordcountries and to pay back externl debt.

So yes, he said that.  

by IM on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 05:50:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sounds like a step or two is left out.
Something like: other money doesn't circulate, it stays in the country of origin.

(Just guessing. No idea what it's supposed to mean.)

by Number 6 on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 10:58:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
(Just guessing. No idea what it's supposed to mean.)

This is Hans Werner Sinn we're talking about, after all.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 11:00:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A German correspondent writes in an email:
The translation is correct, in my opinion. All the money circulating in the eurozone was created in the crisis countries...


I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 05:07:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't know whether to go Wheeeeeee! or Wooooooo!
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 05:21:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That makes no sense.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 06:22:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
sinnfrei in other words.
by IM on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 06:24:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Beginning to feel like a translation of Wittgenstein. "How do we translate 'Sinn'."
by Number 6 on Wed Oct 24th, 2012 at 04:59:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What makes no sense is that Sinn also claims that the Northern countries now have to get their money back from the Southern countries where all the money was created. Plus, if it was spent buying goods and paying down debt, all the money is now in the Northern countries anyway!

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 07:09:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's why he needs to claim the Target balance was a credit. Because if it wasn't, the only problem would be the German export surplus, which by definition is not a problem.
by Katrin on Wed Oct 24th, 2012 at 01:16:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It is by definition a problem - it never is high enough!

Really, as if you don't know the simplest things about german politics... :-)

by IM on Wed Oct 24th, 2012 at 02:08:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
taken as they are by a simple majority of a body that is not even democratically elected.

So much for Central bank indepence.

You can have your car Central bank any color way you want, as long as it is black BuBa.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 06:10:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This can be a self-fulfilling prophecy. If people start preparing mentally for life as a zero sum game they start behaving in ways that turn life into a zero-sum game. And before you know it it's dog eat dog.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 03:57:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
there is no good future and that they and their country are mired in a zero-sum fight to the death

Hah, here we go again.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 05:24:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oy.
Power is zero-sum.
Wealth is not.

Unless you consider wealth to be exactly equivalent to a specific non-renewable resource. Like gold.

by Number 6 on Wed Oct 24th, 2012 at 05:02:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We can all empower each other. Nobody has to suffer. (unless they can't handle living among equals)

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Thu Oct 25th, 2012 at 08:38:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Eh. That's the airy-fairy meaningless definition of "power".

My usage means: Who makes the final decision?
Not merely self-determination.

by Number 6 on Thu Oct 25th, 2012 at 08:55:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Power is your ability to impose your will on others, to make them do things they otherwise would not have done because they don't really like doing it. That's about as zero-sum as you get.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 04:51:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Power is the ability to do something - alone or together with others. (Decision making is nothing without an act.)

In this world, the power hierarchy is strongly determined by the property notion. Almost any cooperative enterprise has a "designated" owner (or a group of owners), which have all the freedom to further their short-term interests most effectively by abusing their owner position.

An interesting article on delegation of political power is here.

by das monde on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 05:13:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think we're stuck in arguing semantics between the "left wing ideal" and the "hard nosed realist" definitions.

Potayto Potahto ...

Let's call the whole things off.

by Number 6 on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 05:17:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
*thing
by Number 6 on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 05:18:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Isn't it funny that the world now is more "real" than ever?
by das monde on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 05:28:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life."
-Terry Pratchett as Sam Vimes, "Guards! Guards!"
by Number 6 on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 05:42:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So we give up to the modern myths of reality. Let them be Sun gods.
by das monde on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 09:35:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I have had much the same experience with European politics over these last five years.

And considering that the lower bound of my forecast range now hovers only barely above "major European war," I really hope that this time actually is different.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Nov 1st, 2012 at 09:38:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Right now I'm seeing more of a 'major European insurgency' ahead.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Nov 1st, 2012 at 09:49:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Right now, my central forecast is either a fascist coup (or a public lynching of the government) in Greece or Italy, which scares some sense into people. This would have the depression begin to abate in 2014-17. My optimistic scenario is that the Greek government falls peacefully and Syriza wins the next election and goes on to establish some precedents for IIPS to follow when they default, so the defaults are more or less orderly. This would have us turn the corner in 2014 or so.

My pessimistic scenario is that current policies are perpetuated until 2023 (because the PS gets the boot in 17 and the UMP gets the boot in 22, and France is the swing vote), which will almost certainly see uncontrolled GIPS default; fascist coup or civil war in Greece; continuing deterioration of democracy in Italy to the point that they might as well have a fascist coup; and civil war in Spain as regional tensions flare under Catalan-imposed austerity. Oh, and a general depopulation of Eastern Europe, as austeritarian regimes starve the population into migrating.

Now remember that our Dear Leaders have consistently underperformed my most pessimistic forecasts throughout this crisis.

I really, really hope that This Time Is Different, because the only way they could conceivably underperform this sort of forecast is a Franco-German war.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Nov 1st, 2012 at 04:44:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Isn't Oscar Straus more appropriate than Wagner?
Einst hatte ich Geld und Gut,
Jetzt liegt`s in des Rheines Flut,
Verborgen am sicheren Platz
Liegt am Grunde der goldene Schatz.
Und wenn abends der Spätsonnenschein
Auf dem Rhein
Funkelnd ruht,
Glänzt und gleißt es in der Flut.
Was da flimmert,
Was da schimmert,
Was da goldig wogt und rollt,
Das ist Rheingold,
Das ist mein Gold,
Das ist Nibelungengold.

Es liegt auf der Bank
Im Depot, im Depot.
Es liegt auf der Bank,
Im Depot, im Depot.
Es liegt auf der rheinischen Bank im Depot,
Und nicht zwischen Röhricht und Binsen
Die rheinische Bank ist so sicher wie Gold,
Die rheinische Bank ist so sicher wie Gold,
Und zahlt mindestens 6 %,
Mindestens 6 %, 6% Zinsen pro Jahr.

At the end the bank  goes bankrupt, of course.

As for

In an ultimate act of desperation, the Bundesbank is even considering to let journalists inside the vaults.

The Federal Reserve (which still hasn't moved to Fort Knox, despite Eurointelligence's efforts) even lets tourists inside the vaults. I've been there - though they didn't tell us which were the German bars and which the Greek ones.

by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 09:42:21 AM EST
I'm not sure if it's a coinincdence, but...

Gold. Geld. Gäld (a kind of debt in Swedish).

Money is money is money is debt. Is a sin.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 05:34:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Galt (John)
Geld, Gäld
Gilt, Guilt
Gold
Ghoul

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 05:36:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If I understand this right, Gold is Geld.

Also related to yield, guild and -

guilt.

http://www.heinrich-tischner.de/22-sp/2wo/wort/idg/deutsch/g/geld.htm

by IM on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 06:11:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Some etymology of these (Germanic) words in English.

Online Etymology Dictionary

gold (n.)
O.E. gold, from P.Gmc. *gulth- (cf. O.S., O.Fris., O.H.G. gold, Ger. Gold, M.Du. gout, Du. goud, O.N. gull, Dan. guld, Goth. gulþ), from PIE root *ghel- "yellow, green," possibly ultimately "bright" (cf. O.C.S. zlato, Rus. zoloto, Skt. hiranyam, O.Pers. daraniya-, Avestan zaranya- "gold;" see Chloe).

Online Etymology Dictionary

guild (n.)
early 13c., yilde (spelling later influenced by O.N. gildi "guild, brotherhood"), a semantic fusion of O.E. gegyld "guild" and gild, gyld "payment, tribute, compensation," from P.Gmc. *gelth- "pay" (cf. O.Fris. geld "money," O.S. geld "payment, sacrifice, reward," O.H.G. gelt "payment, tribute;" see yield (v.)).

The connecting sense is of a tribute or payment to join a protective or trade society. But some see the root in its alternative sense of "sacrifice," as if in worship, and see the word as meaning a combination for religious purposes, either Christian or pagan. The Anglo-Saxon guilds had a strong religious component; they were burial societies that paid for masses for the souls of deceased members as well as paying fines in cases of justified crime.

Online Etymology Dictionary

yield (n.)
O.E. gield "payment, sum of money" (see yield (v.)); extended sense of "production" (as of crops) is first attested mid-15c. Earliest English sense survives in financial "yield from investments."
yield (v.)
O.E. geldan (Anglian), gieldan (W.Saxon) "to pay" (class III strong verb; past tense geald, p.p. golden), from P.Gmc. *geldanan "pay" (cf. O.S. geldan "to be worth," O.N. gjaldo "to repay, return," M.Du. ghelden, Du. gelden "to cost, be worth, concern," O.H.G. geltan, Ger. gelten "to be worth," Goth. fra-gildan "to repay, requite"), perhaps from PIE *ghel-to- "I pay," found only in Balto-Slavic and Germanic, unless O.C.S. zledo, Lith. geliuoti are Germanic loan-words. Sense developed in English via use to translate L. reddere, Fr. rendre, and had expanded by c.1300 to "repay, return, render (service), produce, surrender." Related to M.L.G. and M.Du. gelt, Du. geld, Ger. Geld "money." Yielding in sense of "giving way to physical force" is recorded from 1660s.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Oct 24th, 2012 at 03:09:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
However, "guilt" is less sure:

Online Etymology Dictionary

guilt (n.)
O.E. gylt "crime, sin, fault, fine," of unknown origin, though some suspect a connection to O.E. gieldan "to pay for, debt," but OED editors find this "inadmissible phonologically."
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Oct 24th, 2012 at 05:00:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The German identification of debt with guilt is highly selective. The religious among them pray daily "Forgive us our debts as we forgive others" without thinking for a moment that this should apply to the Greeks.
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Wed Oct 24th, 2012 at 01:25:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Tellingly, with the update of the catechism in the 1990s, Spanish CatholicS now pray 'forgive our offences as we forgive those who offend us'.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Oct 24th, 2012 at 02:21:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
and in English "forgive us our trespasses"...

Private property!

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Thu Oct 25th, 2012 at 09:00:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Und vergib uns unsere Schuld,
wie auch wir vergeben unsern Schuldigern.

No modernism here and it is actually the same text in both churches. Even if Schuldigern sounds very much like Luther.

Forgive us our debt like we also forgive our debtors is literal but not incorrect translation. Even if a translation orientated on the spirit would say guilt or offense etc.

by IM on Wed Oct 24th, 2012 at 02:34:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, in that case, schuld may conveniently take on the sense "sin".

As far as I can make out, the correct translation from Greek is "debts". The King James Bible says "debts", like the Vulgate that uses "debita".  However, the widely-known English version (from the Book of Common Prayer) says "trespasses". Which would seem to show that a certain ambiguity has been, historically, possibly more of a feature than a bug.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Oct 24th, 2012 at 02:48:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Though:

Opheilema - New Testament Greek Lexicon - King James Version

Definition
  1. that which is owed
    1. that which is justly or legally due, a debt
  2. metaph. offence, sin

Literally, debt, but metaphorically, sin or offence...

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Oct 24th, 2012 at 02:58:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Did I miss the Dr Who theme music when I woke this morning?

I can't even think of anything coherently rude to say about this one.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 09:49:31 AM EST
Just be incoherently rude.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 09:51:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Can anyone remind me why anyone would even give a fuck if the gold was gone? What's it good for?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 10:07:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't know, but this story is already a few months old: Checking the Vaults: Germans Fret about Their Foreign Gold Reserves (Spiegel, 15 May 2012)
Germany's federal audit office, the Bundesrechnungshof, which monitors the German government's financial management, is unhappy with how Germany's central bank, the Bundesbank, keeps tabs on its gold. According to media reports, the auditors are dissatisfied with the fact that gold reserves in Frankfurt are more closely monitored than those held abroad.

In Germany, spot checks are carried out to make sure that the gold bars are in the right place. But for the German gold that is stored on the Bundesbank's behalf by the US Federal Reserve in New York, the Bank of England in London and the Banque de France in France, the German central bank relies on the assurances of its foreign counterparts that the gold is where it should be. The three foreign central banks give the Bundesbank annual statements confirming the size of the reserves, but the Germans do not usually carry out physical inspections of the bars.

'No Doubts'

According to German media reports, the Bundesrechnungshof has now recommended in its confidential annual audit of the Bundesbank for 2011 that Germany's central bank check its foreign gold reserves with yearly spot checks.



I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 10:11:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
More from Spiegel: Instant Investing: Businessman Sees Golden Opportunity in Vending Machines (11 October 2010)
And now Munich residents have a new and particularly innovative vending machine. Located on the city's Laimer Square is a 450 kilogram (992 pound) hulk of a machine, covered in gold leaf. The device, which was installed two weeks ago, plugs a very specific gap in Bavaria's self-service business: It is a vending machine for gold.

The machine dispenses real gold bars, weighing up to 250 grams (8.8 ounces) -- which, depending on the current price of gold, equals a quick investment of around €7,900 ($11,100). Customers can pay in cash or by credit card, and a gift box is included.

Result of Global Gold Rush

The heavily secured vending machine, which is located in the lobby of a Munich-based bank, is the most recent consequence of the global gold rush. Since prices for the precious metal have been reaching new highs on an almost daily basis, more and more small investors have been entering the market. They dream of fabulous returns at a time of meager interest rates. The price for a troy ounce of gold (equivalent to around 31 grams) has gone from $250 in 1999 to an impressive $1,350 today, and it's likely to rise even further. Banks have responded by reactivating gold storage facilities that had been closed for years.



I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 10:14:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Old stuff. Try today
by Katrin on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 04:12:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That is the question on my mind too:

  1. What role does a gold reserve play today in central banking?

  2. Why the distributed storage?


Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 11:31:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
1) I'd hope none, but there's surprisingly much of it.
by Number 6 on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 11:45:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
2.)  Constantly shipping tons of gold around is a massive pain in the butt.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 12:06:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's better than running after paper money in downtown Berlin in a windstorm.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 12:39:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But that just goes back to 1. Is it used in a way that would require shipping it around if it were not stored in a decentralised fashion or is this also a relic?

Perhaps a cold war relic to ensure the western powers had gold for exile governments in case of war or revolutions.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 02:54:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Beats me.  

I don't 'grok' the mythology of gold.  To me it makes shiny and expensive jewelry and is useful in the electronics business.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 03:02:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I just figure that the brass is planning the last war. So perhaps they plan something like the Moscow gold situation:

Moscow gold - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The term Moscow Gold (Spanish: Oro de Moscú), or alternatively, Gold of the Republic (Spanish: Oro de la República), refers to the operation by which 510 tonnes of gold, corresponding to 72.6% of the total gold reserves of the Bank of Spain, were transferred from their original location in Madrid to the Soviet Union a few months after the outbreak of the Spanish Civil War. This transfer was made by order of the government of the Second Spanish Republic, presided over by Francisco Largo Caballero, through the initiative of his Minister of Finance, Juan Negrín. The term also encompasses the subsequent issues relating with the gold's sale to the USSR and the usage of the funds obtained. The remaining fourth of the Bank's gold reserves, 193 tonnes, was transported and exchanged into currency in France, an operation which is also known by analogy as the "Paris Gold".

Of course the location meant limits on how it could be used.

Hm, follow-up question: does the US store any of its gold in any allied states?

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 03:16:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
does the US store any of its gold in any allied states?

I have no idea.  According to this it's all held within the US borders.

Strange that a heap of metal is considered economically vital and the Mississippi and Ohio rivers that carry (about) 50% of US internal and external trade is considered worthless.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 06:40:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Mostly in Fort Knox - for real, this time.
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Wed Oct 24th, 2012 at 01:26:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's all about narrative. Deep down in most people gold=real money. So, a country without gold reserves would make people worry. Why do we trust these little notes with dead kings on them? Because they are backed by gold, aren't they, right? But the amount of gold required to back all our currency...! Ooh, there it is. Shiny heavy golden bars. Niiiice. All is well.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 05:31:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Fiat money is made by Italians from gold ingots laboriously shat by German central bankers in the Eurotower. Well known fact.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 05:38:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thank the old gods and the new for Tywin Lannister Jens Weidmann.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 06:05:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It is not a rational thought, but I feel that Sinn is Mephistopheles, Weideman Dorian Gray and Schäuble Dr Strangelove.

res humā m'és alič
by Antoni Jaume on Wed Oct 24th, 2012 at 02:08:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A base libel.

Dr. Strangelove understood game theory and the principle of deterrence.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Oct 25th, 2012 at 08:25:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But the Americans didn't.....
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Thu Oct 25th, 2012 at 09:29:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually, they did. They just didn't understand the principle of "don't put crazy people in charge of your nuclear strike force."

Schäuble isn't Dr. Strangelove. He's General Ripper.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Oct 25th, 2012 at 12:43:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Gold reserves are conceptualised as foreign currency reserves. This is a relic of the gold standard era.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 03:14:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, a cold war relic.
by IM on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 06:06:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Willem Buiter's Maverecon: Gold - a six thousand year-old bubble (November 8, 2009)
From a social perspective, gold held by central banks as part of their foreign exchange reserves is a barbarous relic (Keynes used the expression to refer to the Gold Standard, but close enough is close enough).  The same holds for gold held idle in private vaults as a store of value.  The cost and waste involved in getting the gold out of the ground only to but it back under ground in secure vaults is considerable.  Mining the ore is environmentally damaging, especially if it involves open pit mining. Refining the gold causes further environmental risks.  Historically, gold was extracted from its ores by using mercury, a toxic heavy metal, much of which was released into the atmosphere.  Today, cyanide is used instead.  While cyanide, another toxic substance, is broken down in the environment, cyanide spills (which occur regularly) can wipe out life in the affected bodies of water.  Runoff from the mine or tailing piles can occur long after mining has ceased.

...

Because to a reasonable first approximation gold has no intrinsic value as a consumption good or a producer good, it is an example of what I call a fiat (physical) commodity.  You will be familiar with fiat currency.  Unlike what Wikipedia says on the subject, the essence of fiat money is not that it is money declared by a government to be legal tender.  It need not derive its value from the government demanding it in payment of taxes or insisting it should be accepted within the national jurisdiction in settlement of debt. Instead the defining property of fiat money is that it has no intrinsic value and derives any value it has only from the shared belief by a sufficient number of economic actors that it has that value.

...

Gold has become a fiat commodity or a fiat commodity currency, just as the US $, the euro, the pound sterling and the yen (and a couple of hundred other currencies) are fiat paper currencies. The main differences between them are that gold is very costly to produce, while the production of additional paper money has an extremely low marginal cost.  If we count the deposits of commercial banks with the central banks, which together with currency in circulation make up the monetary base, as fiat money, then the incremental cost of fiat base money creation is zero.



I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 12:24:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If we look at it as a fiat commodity, then perhaps the same role as reserves of foreign currency - in effect to be able to do limited upwards manipulation of the exchange rate?

(Or is foreign currency reserves used for anything otehr then that?)

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 02:59:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It does count as a currency 'foreign' to everyone.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 03:15:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Colman:
What's it good for?

Feeling justified.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Oct 24th, 2012 at 03:14:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I've been clicking around various blogs - many of the goldbug type - and found nothing of use.

Wee, this quote was noteworthy:
Jesse's Café Américain quoting Hjalmar Schacht

"Another amusing incident arose from the fact that the Reichsbank maintained a not inconsiderable gold deposit in the Federal Reserve Bank in New York.  Strong was proud to be able to show us the vaults which were situated in the deepest cellar of the building and remarked:

'Now, Herr Schacht, you shall see where the Reichsbank gold is kept.'

While the staff looked for the hiding place of the Reichsbank gold we went through the vaults.We waited several minutes: at length we were told:

'Mr. Strong, we can't find the Reichsbank gold.'

Strong was flabbergasted but I comforted him. 'Never mind: I believe you when you say the gold is there. Even if it weren't you are good for its replacement.'"

Hjalmar Schacht, Autobiography: Confessions of 'The Old Wizard',  p.245

Reading strange theories on goldbug blogs an idea cropped up. Maybe the gold auditors do really follow one of them if they are also goldbugs. And then you are really of to crazyville.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 05:15:19 PM EST
Good old days when sensible people like Schacht were in power.
by IM on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 05:40:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Read de Grauwes article in the FT today. Made me decide to apply for a paper subscription. After the 70% discount they offer for new subscribers, it costs about as much as an ordinary newspaper. :)

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 05:27:10 PM EST
Heh... I came to ET because during my university time I had a free FT access and the articles were so full of wrong that I started googling for critiques - and found some written by Jerome.

I give you about 3 months on the FT before you either become a drooling vegetable or a libertarian, or stop reading.

Mind you, I suppose it's better now, Martin Wolf has seen the light and they publish some interesting comment from Buiter and de G and others. But still...

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 06:07:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Really? For the last few years I've thought the FT is actually the worlds most powerfully subversive socialist Samizdat... ;)

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 06:13:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Part of this is an old tug-of-war between the auditors and the bundesbank. The auditors insist that everybody in federal government has to be audited including the bundesbank. And the bundesbank ends to resist. the gold is only the latest battlefield.

Ant then of course the usual conspiracy theories fuel this. a bit like audit the fed, the whole thing.

by IM on Tue Oct 23rd, 2012 at 06:22:46 PM EST
Where have all the grown-ups gone?  Do all these fools think sovereign gold reserves are regulated by CFTC Rule 1.25 and so have been swapped out for paper?  Or is everyone just going Teabagger wacky?
by rifek on Wed Oct 24th, 2012 at 11:50:05 AM EST
My bet is teabagger wacky. Or Ron Paul wacky, or Lyndon Larouche wacky.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Oct 24th, 2012 at 12:42:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... "bemused exasperation" in German?

Wolfgang Münchau: Die Gold-Michel vom Rechnungshof (Spiegel, 24.10.2012)

Wäre ich der Chef der US-Notenbank Federal Reserve, bei der ein Großteil des Goldes lagert, würde ich dieser deutschen Paranoia ein Ende setzen. Ich würde einfach das gesamte Gold zwecks Zählung an den Bundesrechnungshof schicken. Es wäre das Äquivalent eines Atommülltransports. Es gibt nämlich keinen größeren ökonomischen Giftstoff als diese Edelmetall, das der Weltwirtschaft die Große Depression in den dreißiger Jahren bescherte. Man lese dazu nur die wirtschaftshistorischen Analysen von Charles Kindleberger oder Barry Eichengreen über die Wirkungsweise des Goldstandards auf die Industriestaaten. Der damals aufgetretene Teufelskreis zwischen Sparen und Rezessionen ähnelt im Übrigen dem, was wir heute überall in Europa erleben.

Ein Goldstandard wäre das Ende jedes Krisenmanagements

Ich wette, dass diejenigen, die sich um den deutschen Goldbestand sorgen, mehrheitlich auch eine Rückkehr zum Goldstandard befürworten. Für diese Goldkäfer ist Papiergeld ein Werk des Teufels. Wie uns ausgerechnet Bundesbank-Präsident Jens Weidmann kürzlich erinnerte, war es schließlich Mephisto persönlich, der im "Faust II" dem Herrscher empfahl, Papiergeld zu drucken, um sich zu bereichern.

...

Beschäftigungstherapie für gelangweilte Notenbanker

Bevor Sie, liebe Leserinnen und Leser, vor allem die Goldkäfer unter Ihnen, jetzt anfangen zu hyperventilieren, denken Sie doch einmal kurz über die Größenordnungen nach. Der deutsche Goldbestand ist einer der höchsten weltweit und dabei gerade mal 133 Milliarden Euro wert. Angesichts der Größe der deutschen Volkswirtschaft, die jedes Jahr das Zwanzigfache dieser Summe erwirtschaftet, ist die Forderung nach einer Inventur des Goldbestandes eher eine Art Beschäftigungstherapie für gelangweilte Notenbanker als ein Akt makroökonomischer Stabilisierung. Die Summen, um die es hier geht, sind Peanuts im Gegensatz zu den offiziellen Garantien für den Rettungsfonds ESM und die deutschen Forderungen gegenüber der Europäischen Zentralbank im Zahlungssystem Target 2. Wenn große Verluste drohen, dann eher wegen des deutschen Krisenmanagements als durch den Golddiebstahl durch ausländische Notenbanken - so lautet ja der implizit Vorwurf des Bundesrechnungshofs.

If I were the head of the U.S. Federal Reserve, where a large part of the gold is kept, I would put an end to this German paranoia. I would just send all the gold to be counted to the [German] Court of Auditors. It would be the equivalent of a nuclear waste transport. Indeed, there is no greater economic poison than this precious metal which brought to the world economy the Great Depression of the thirties. One need only read economic-historical analysis by Charles Kindleberger and Barry Eichengreen on the functioning of the gold standard in the industrialized countries. The vicious circle between saving and recessions encountered then is similar to the rest of what we see today everywhere in Europe.

A gold standard would be the end of all crisis management

I bet that a majority of those who are concerned about the German gold reserve would be in favor of returning to the gold standard. For gold bugs paper money is the work of the devil. As Bundesbank President Jens Weidmann deliberately reminded us recently, in conclusion it was Mephistopheles himself thatadvised the rulers to print paper money to enrich himself in "Faust II".

...

Occupational therapy for bored central bankers

Before you, dear readers, especially the gold bugs among you, now begin to hyperventilate, reflect again for a bit about orders of magnitude. The German gold reserve is one of the highest in the world, at only 133 billion euros. Given the size of the German economy, which annually generates twenty times that sum, the demand for an inventory of gold holdings is rather a kind of occupational therapy for bored central bankers athan an act of macroeconomic stabilization. The sums at stake here are peanuts compared to the official guarantees for the ESM bailout fund and the German claims on the European Central Bank in the Target2 payment system. If large losses beckon, it is rather because of the German crisis management than because of the gold theft through foreign central banks - which is the implicit criticism of the [German] Court of Auditors.



I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 06:12:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If he were head of the U.S. Fed, why would he care about the German paranoia? But the Germans are always welcome to send a battleship to NY to pick it up as an (apocryphal?) legend claims that Pompidou did in the 1970s.
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 07:57:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Apocryphal?

Well, here's some data:

Charles de Gaulle « The Burning Platform

In early 1971, de Gaulle sent a French battleship with a hoard of dollars to convert to gold at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York. The British ambassador to Washington conveyed the August 11 instruction of his government, conversion of $3 billion dollars into gold, to be stored in the underground vault of said bank. Other foreign governments had gold stored there also.

From where De Gaulle was in 1971, that must have been difficult...

Or this, from Henry CK Liu:

Asia Times Online :: China News, China Business News, Taiwan and Hong Kong News and Business.

John Connally, Treasury secretary under president Richard Nixon, had told foreign finance ministers that "the dollar was America's currency, but your problem". To solve the problem, France redeemed its dollar holdings in gold in early August 1971 by sending a French battleship to New York to take delivery of French gold from the vault of the New York Federal Reserve Bank and to bring it to the vault of the Banque de France in Paris. The French raised gold reserves and dumped dollars. Banque de France eventually increased its gold holding to 92% of its reserves.

The accounts don't quite coincide, even though Liu doesn't mix the late Great Charles in there.

Dreary Turden:

Guest Post: The Original Dollar Crisis And How It Led To Today's Crisis - Part 1 | ZeroHedge

France redeemed $191 million for gold by sending a French battleship to New York to take delivery of the gold from the Federal Reserve and to bring back to  France.[5]

But his footnote refers back to Liu in Asia Times.

Still, here's Yannis Varoufakis to the rescue:

Surplus recycling, currency unions and the birth of the Global Minotaur « Yanis Varoufakis

In August of 1971 the French government decided to make a very public statement of its annoyance at the United States' policies: President George Pompidou ordered a destroyer to sail to New Jersey to redeem US dollars for gold held at Fort Knox, as was his right under Bretton Woods! A few days later, the British government of Edward Heath issued a similar request, though without employing the Royal Navy, demanding gold equivalent to $3 billion held by the Bank of England.  Poor, luckless Pompidou and Heath: They had rushed in where angels fear to tread!

President Nixon was absolutely livid. Four days later, on 15th August 1971, he announced the effective end of Bretton Woods: the dollar would no longer be convertible to gold.

"Battleship", btw, is almost certainly nonsense. A destroyer, more like it.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 09:03:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In early 1971, de Gaulle sent a French battleship with a hoard of dollars to convert to gold at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.

Sorry to blow your French battleship out of the water but...

Charles de Gaulle resigned in 1969, and died in 1970. Other than that, it's a good story...

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 09:09:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sorry! Premature expostulation!

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 09:10:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Quite...
From where De Gaulle was in 1971, that must have been difficult...


I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 09:30:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In the meantime, German dentists are also getting into the game. The SZ reports today on how dentists, when replacing a broken bridge with gold teeth "neglect" to return the gold to the patient.....A comment in the article points out that about a third of all dental gold was used in Germany (current gold prices have more or less put a stop to it).
Goldbrücken, Kronen, Inlays - in deutschen Patientenmündern lagert eine Menge Edelmetall. Bis 1990 wurden jährlich etwa 60 Tonnen Gold in ihnen versenkt - rund ein Drittel des weltweiten Zahngoldverbrauchs. In keinem anderen Land der Erde ist so viel Zahngold verarbeitet worden wie in Deutschland. In keinem anderen Land der Welt haben Zahnärzte und Labore so viel am Gold verdient wie hier.
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Wed Oct 24th, 2012 at 01:49:07 PM EST
Krugman earlier this year:
Golden Instability

[...] under the gold standard America had no major financial panics other than in 1873, 1884, 1890, 1893, 1907, 1930, 1931, 1932, and 1933. Oh, wait.
by Number 6 on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 09:33:31 AM EST


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