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European Salon de News, Discussion et Klatsch - 28 September

by In Wales Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 04:40:28 PM EST

 A Daily Review Of International Online Media 


Europeans on this date in history:

1725 - birth of Arthur Guinness, an Irish brewer and the founder of the Guinness brewery business and family. He was also an entrepreneur, visionary and philanthropist. (d. 1803)

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by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 03:21:35 PM EST
BBC News - Ed Miliband: Let churches stage same-sex weddings

Plans to allow same sex marriages in England and Wales should be extended to religious institutions, Labour leader Ed Miliband has said.

He said faith groups who "want to provide that opportunity for gay couples... should be able to do so".

Ministers are consulting on allowing civil marriages for same-sex couples.

Leading Churches oppose calling gay partnership ceremonies marriages, saying they could undermine the status of marriage.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 03:26:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
soon we'll have gay vicar couples in the vicarage. ;)

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 06:30:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Much tho' I support that, I think it might be better to get gay marriage on the statute books first, and that might entail leaving religionist institutions out. You can come back to that later once it has been shown that the sky hasn't fallen in.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 03:08:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't see why political institutions should interfere with religious rites in any case.

Ah now I remember. In the UK, various varieties of shaman (shamen? shapersons?) can register as marriage celebrant, blurring the line between the institution of marriage as a civil contract and whatever the particular sect or tribe claims marriage to be.

It would be simpler to cut that link, i.e. people who want to get married according to the law go to the registry office, and people who want to celebrate some mystical rite can do that, and it's nobody's business if the two groups happen to overlap.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 04:32:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hear, hear.

(Is there same-sex handfasting?)

-----
sapere aude

by Number 6 on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 05:33:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually, it would be simpler to put the link fully back into place. Despite the enthusiasm of the Enlightenment crowd, religion and politics are irretrievably enmeshed with each others in any human society. The cleanest way to run your system is to have an official state religion, and if some troublemakers don't want to participate in it, you can either transport them to Australia or cut off their heads.

You will have a civil war once in a while to contend with, but that may be easier to deal with over the long run...

by asdf on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 12:35:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think you left off the "a modest proposal" at the start there.


-----
sapere aude
by Number 6 on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 03:34:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Here's a diary topic for you. What is ideology? On state religions, totalitarian regimes, and the Enlightenment utopia.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 10:59:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Berlin tables new circumcision law proposal | Germany | DW.DE | 27.09.2012

s circumcising an infant or boy a form of physical assault? A German court ruling unleashed a heated debate on this question a few months ago, and now a new law is expected to provide clarity.

The German government wants to enshrine the circumcision of Jewish and Muslim boys in law. To this end, Justice Minister Sabine Leutheusser-Schnarrenberger presented the cornerstones of her new proposal to the state governments and relevant associations on Tuesday (25.09.2012).

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 04:13:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
  • At birth, the foreskin is fused to the glans in the same way as finger nails to fingers.

  • Anaestetics in infants is dodgy at best.

  • Middle-eastern traditions are acceptable, African traditions are not.

  • Practices of sufficiently powerful minorities are good, practices of other minorities are bad.

  • A pin-prick to the clitoris is mutilation, removing half the nerve endings in the penis is a beautiful religious ritual.

  • As values go, 'Care/harm' will lose to 'Loyalty/betrayal', 'Authority/subversion' and 'Sanctity/degradation'.

"I don't want to live on this planet anymore."
-Prof. Farnsworth


-----
sapere aude

by Number 6 on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 06:06:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
or two?

regarding statements "pin-prick to the clitoris" (i.e., where is this considered a crime of genital mutilation on the statutes somewhere?) and "half the nerve endings in the penis".

Probably the statement "anaestetics in infants is dodgy at best" can be challenged as well.

Reputable citations are therefore requested, as I don't think either of these statements are true.

Further, circumcision is not, strictly speaking, only a middle eastern tradition, as the practise is widespread in many western countries, and for reasons other than to follow a middle eastern tradition.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:40:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The words "reputable" and "strictly speaking" make me think this is going to be like debating a creationist ...

Nerves:
15 square inches.
over all view on operation

Anaesthesia:
No, I think you're right. Too much conflicting information.

Law:
New Zealand
UK.
EU resolution - "any form of female genital mutilation, of whatever degree"
US federal law - doesn't appear to prohibit things that don't actually remove tissue. Good news, huh!
Various US state laws

Ooh, the mother lode  - eh, lots of dead links.

-----
sapere aude

by Number 6 on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 09:10:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks for the citations. I think there are likely others on the other side of the foreskin issue, so the "reputable" comment is well taken.

Still don't see anything though which refers to a pin prick as being genital mutilation, if so I would expect all these nations to outlaw the practise of genital piercing.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 11:02:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Islamists who pose a threat 'have no place in France' - FRANCE - FRANCE 24

France's Socialist government vowed Thursday to do more to integrate the country's Muslims but warned that it would not tolerate the country becoming a hotbed of Islamic radicalism.

In a speech marking the inauguration of the Strasbourg Grand Mosque, the biggest Islamic place of worship ever built on French soil, Interior Minister Manuel Valls pledged to come down hard on extremists, warning that foreign activists trying to stir up trouble would be immediately deported.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 04:29:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What about Christians who pose a threat? Jews? Atheists?
by asdf on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 05:24:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
By definition Muslims pose a threat. Period.
by Katrin on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 05:27:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC NEWS | Europe | French court bans Christ advert
France's Catholic Church has won a court injunction to ban a clothing advertisement based on Leonardo da Vinci's Christ's Last Supper.

The display was ruled "a gratuitous and aggressive act of intrusion on people's innermost beliefs", by a judge.

by Katrin on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 05:32:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What ? That christ didn't own his own clothes ?

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 03:10:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC NEWS | Europe | French court bans Christ advert
"When you trivialise the founding acts of a religion, when you touch on sacred things, you create an unbearable moral violence which is a danger to our children," said lawyer Thierry Massis.

From limb to limb of that sentence, there is an escalation towards the absurd that probably only lawyers in full spate know how to produce.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 09:14:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So does laïcité make this sort of verdict more or less likely?

I would have thought the legal system was part of the "state".


-----
sapere aude

by Number 6 on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 09:30:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I suspect this is a rather personal verdict from the judge, that is not likely to be later confirmed.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 09:35:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Accursed activist judges and their war on advertising!


-----
sapere aude
by Number 6 on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 09:42:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The original trial dates from 2005.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 10:00:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, I remember that.

I also remember that the judgement was struck down :

La Cène (Girbaud) - Wikipédia

Le 14 novembre 2006, la Cour de cassation a annulé l'arrêt de la cour d'appel de Paris du 8 avril 2005 et, statuant sur le fond du litige, a débouté l'association Croyances et libertés[1].

It seems to me that the original judge was swayed either by his personal beliefs, or those that he saw as dominant in society. That's completely out of order.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 09:29:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Video: Muslim women arrested in Paris for wearing (perfectly legal) headscarves | The Electronic Intifada

A video first published by Le Parisien and shot on Saturday shows French police arresting women in the Place du Trocadéro in Paris apparently just for wearing headscarves.

Le Parisien explained that France's Interior Minister had ordered a prohibition on any demonstrations amid tight security restrictions on French diplomatic missions abroad as the French magazine Charlie Hebdo published caricatures of the prophet Muhammad.

by Katrin on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 05:36:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
does the vatican still require women to wear hats or headscarves when they enter it ?

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 03:11:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
They require you to not wear t-shirt and shorts. Or at least they did a decade ago when I last checked. (No, nobody in our group tried taking off their t-shirt and shorts and rules lawyer about it - the gorillas looked like their sense of humor had been surgically removed.)

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 03:22:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You don't have to go back very far in time in the West to find examples where women were expected to wear hats, gloves, long sleeves, etc. in formal situations. It's amusing that some people think they can instantly drag the MIddle East (or anywhere else) out of, say, 1300 AD into taking a 2012 urban Western moral viewpoint--when much of rural America and, I presume, Europe, has views closer to 1300 than 2012.
by asdf on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 12:57:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Vienna to use public defibrillators to fight heart attacks - FRANCE 24

Vienna will introduce 60 public defibrillators around the city over the coming months, in a bid to save lives by promoting quicker first aid in the event of a heart attack, authorities said Thursday.

Over 10,000 people die every year in Austria following cardiac arrest.

"There's only one mistake you can make, that's to do nothing," Harry Kopietz, head of the regional parliament and president of the association Puls, which is backing the project, told journalists.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 04:31:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You can already find these in some parts of the UK.

Do people know what to do with them? I imagine everyone has seen the TV shows, but is that really how they're supposed to be used?

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:15:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Procedure for the new "public" ones tend to be
  • attach pads to chestal area
  • switch on machine
  • sit back and wait

The monitoring is built in and the machine makes the decision whether to "apply current" or not.

Having the public use the ER/crash cart version wihtout training would probably ... I don't know ... hilarity ensues, if you're lucky.


-----
sapere aude

by Number 6 on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:35:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In the UK at least, they are supplied to various public places (including shopping centres etc.) by the NHS along with training for a minimum of 3 staff members. The newer ones are basically self-running via an algorithm, you just put the sticky bits on the electrodes and put them in the right place and push the button.

(The training is mostly about putting the electrodes in the right place. And not touching it while in action.)

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:38:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not likely to end well...
by asdf on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 12:59:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We've had those for years in Denmark. If they had been a total catastrophe, they would presumably have been removed by now.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 02:57:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Denmark is civilized, though.

I can't wait until they put them in my town. There are all sorts of fun things you can do with the innards.

by asdf on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 05:52:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm pretty sure they will squawk some sort of distress code if you remove them, though. That would make sense, since you're only supposed to remove them when somebody is twitching on the ground.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Sep 29th, 2012 at 01:27:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The police response time here would allow a leisurely walk home with the goods with no danger of apprehension...
by asdf on Sat Sep 29th, 2012 at 03:35:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
`No French investigation' into runaway British schoolgirl - UK-FRANCE - FRANCE 24

The French authorities are not investigating the disappearance of a 15-year-old British schoolgirl who ran away with her maths teacher last week because she is over the legal age of consent in France.

Megan Stammers, from Sussex in southeast England, and her teacher Jeremy Forrest, 30, were caught on CCTV on the cross-channel ferry from Dover to Calais in northern France last Thursday.

And while a major investigation is under way in the UK, Sussex police confirmed that Stammers' disappearance was not being treated the same way in France because the couple have not broken any French laws.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 04:32:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What ? Sex with a 15 yr old is legal in france ?

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 03:12:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, apparently so. Well, I've always thought consent laws should have an age differential component. A 15 and 16 year old is cool, but a 15 and a 30 year old is definitely not

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 03:14:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In Denmark, there is no age differential, but there is a clause about asymmetric power relationships, under which the age of consent goes up (from 15 to 18).

So it would be illegal in Denmark because he's her teacher, not because he's twice her age.

(In practice, there's also an informal age differential rule, in that nobody is ever going to actually prosecute a 14/16 relationship, but a 14/20 one might be and a 14/30 one definitely would be.)

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 03:18:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not much different here. Rightly so, because 15 year olds don't need to be protected from sex with adults, but they need to be protected from exploitative relationships.
by Katrin on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 04:00:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That seems a lot more sensible than a simple birthday-based cutoff.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:19:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
15 is the age of consent to sexual relations in France, no matter what the age of the partner.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 04:03:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That is sort of how it works here. But the rules are so complicated that nobody really worries about it. Besides, what are you supposed to do, validate government-issued ID paperwork before going on a date?
by asdf on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 01:00:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by asdf on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 01:03:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is it weird that I think this table looks like something out of a 1980's role-playing game?

-----
sapere aude
by Number 6 on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 03:39:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
LOL

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 11:00:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Consexual sex rules

Make an opposed age roll: each player rolls 5d20. Then look on the encounter table to see how many Cops materialise. NC means 'no cops'. 1M means one municipal cop. 4F means four federal cops. Look in the critters appendix for cop stats.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 11:07:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
L'enseignant et l'adolescente britanniques en fuite ont été retrouvés à Bordeaux Runaway British teacher and teenager found in Bordeaux
L'affaire qui passionne la presse britannique (The Sun, The Guardian ou encore The Mirror, qui a ouvert un suivi en direct) depuis une semaine vient de trouver son épilogue. Les amours interdites de l'enseignant et de l'adolescente britanniques qui étaient en fuite depuis le 20 septembre ont été interceptées vendredi 28 septembre dans le centre-ville de Bordeaux. Le professeur, âgé de 30 ans, a aussitôt été placé en garde à vue.
The case the British press has been full of for a week (The Sun, The Guardian or The Mirror, which is live monitoring) has reached its end. The forbidden love of the British teacher and teenager who had been on the run since September 20 was intercepted Friday, September 28 in the city centre of Bordeaux. The teacher, aged 30, was immediately taken into custody.
"On a retrouvé le couple sur la voie publique dans le centre de Bordeaux", a indiqué la police judiciaire, ajoutant que Megan, la mineure de 15 ans qui avait fugué avec son professeur, était "en bonne santé". Jeremy Forrest, marié, 30 ans, enseignant de mathématiques, contre lequel un mandat d'arrêt européen avait été émis, a été placé en garde à vue dans les locaux du commissariat de Bordeaux. "We found the couple on the street in the center of Bordeaux" , said the police, adding that Megan, the minor of 15 years who had run away with her teacher was "in good health" . Jeremy Forrest, married, 30, a mathematics teacher, had a European arrest warrant taken out against him. He was placed in custody in the main police station in Bordeaux.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 10:19:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In view of the above, it's clear the French police was tracking them, not in conformity with French law on sexual relations, but a European arrest warrant.

Which makes FRANCE 24 look like a British outlet whining about the French police yet again.

FRANCE 24 is such rubbish.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 10:23:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The article notes this :
Le parquet a souligné que la justice française n'était pas chargée du fond de l'affaire, mais seulement de l'exécution du mandat d'arrêt européen émis par les autorités britanniques à l'encontre de M. Forrest. Ce mandat devrait être examiné dans les vingt-quatre heures par le parquet général de Bordeaux. La police du Sussex (sud de l'Angleterre) a de son côté indiqué dans un communiqué que M. Forrest était suspecté d'enlèvement d'enfant.

The French police merely executed the European arrest warrant, which is apparently for child kidnapping. Which seems preposterous on its face.

The article also notes that there is a law on the books in France against sex with a minor over 15 involving abuse of authority, which would seem to apply to this case.

Don't stand... don't stand so... don't stand so close to me, etc

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 10:47:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ambrose Evans-Pritchard: Europe's betrayal of Spain (Daily Telegraph, September 27th, 2012)
Today [Rajoy] will announce a fresh round of austerity measures to meet EU targets that cannot be met, adhering to reactionary strategy of "internal devaluation" imposed by Germany that is destroying his country.

And now he has just been betrayed by the German bloc anyway. Es el colmo. If he were to request full sovereign rescue, he would most likely be shafted again. Who can blame him for dragging his feet?

The temptation to tell the Germans and Dutch to go to Hell - and to pull the pin on their banking systems - must be growing mightily. Desperate men do desperate things.

I don't think there's a single line in the analysis that I'd object to.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 06:19:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Isn't it odd how the insanity of Europe's leaders has made people like AEP much more on target?

<sigh>

Question is, is rebelling even possible in Rajoy's belief system?

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:43:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
these leaders are chosen because their belief systems are dependably carved in basalt.

TINA...

down they go, new acolytes always ready to jump in the ring with fresh versions of the old lies.

all thumbs in a dike anyway...

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 03:45:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The economic right wing is fuming at what they see as Rajoy's incompetence.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 11:10:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
is rebelling even possible in Rajoy's belief system?

Never. Rebelling is do something, decide something.

by PerCLupi on Sat Sep 29th, 2012 at 02:40:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
opposed on the ideological spectrum can all agree on one thing, the Euro project is a bust, and can not hold.

Now, we wait for events to unfold as the elites cling to their fantasies, delaying the inevitable and in so doing making the inevitable all the more painful.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:44:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
EILMELDUNG: Steinbrück wird Kanzlerkandidat der SPD - Politik - FAZ
Die Frage, mit wem die Sozialdemokraten im Herbst 2013 gegen Bundeskanzlerin Angela Merkel (CDU) in den Wahlkampf ziehen, ist entschieden: Der frühere Finanzminister Peer Steinbrück wird Kanzlerkandidat der SPD.
by Katrin on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 03:54:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Krugman blog: The economic consequences of Herr Steinbrueck (December 11, 2008)
There's an extraordinary -- and extraordinarily depressing -- interview in Newsweek with Peer Steinbrueck, the Germany finance minister. The world economy is in a terrifying nosedive, visible everywhere. Yet Mr. Steinbrueck is standing firm against any extraordinary fiscal measures, and denounces Gordon Brown for his "crass Keynesianism."

...

The reason is that the European economy is so integrated: European countries on average spend around a quarter of their GDP on imports from each other. Since imports tend to rise or fall faster than GDP during a business cycle, this probably means that something like 40 percent of any change in final demand "leaks" across borders within Europe. As a result, the multiplier on fiscal policy within any given European country is much less than the multiplier on a coordinated fiscal expansion. And that in turn means that the tradeoff between deficits and supporting the economy in a time of trouble is much less favorable for any one European country than for Europe as a whole.

...

In short, there's a huge multiplier effect at work; unfortunately, what it's doing is multiplying the impact of the current German government's boneheadedness.



I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 05:10:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I doubt that these elections will bring much surprise. Steinbrück will become vice-chancellor in a grand coalition.
by Katrin on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 06:33:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And so the SPD will be destroyed as a fighting force for the following elections, which Merkel will win. Then she will lead a Black-Green coalition until 2021.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 06:50:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Unless the aliens come and take her back to her home planet.

They can have Paul Ryan back while they're at it.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:22:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
the SPD will be destroyed, period.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill
by r------ on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:45:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The SPD will move to the right, which should strengthen Die Linke, unless Die Linke fucks it up terribly (sigh. It's not improbable). This will not kill the SPD, though. The example of Hamburg has proved that a black and green coalition is a disaster for both partners (and for the city). We won't see a repetition of that, I think. More likely grand coalitions forever.
by Katrin on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 08:03:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Eurointelligence Daily Morning Newsbriefing: Weidmann seeks to sabotage banking union (28.09.2012)
Bundesbank president insists that any bank legacy problems must remain the liability of national regulatory regimes; says anything else - i.e. the explicit commitment by the eurozone summit in June to separate banking and sovereign risks - constituted a financial transfer; Weidmann also says bank supervision will destroy the ECB's independence and deflect from its price stability goal; the coalition majority also asked the government to ensure that legacy risks are not covered by a banking union; the Spanish cabinet passed the 2013 budget with the ludicrously optimistic assumption of a GDP fall of only 0.5%; measures include a cash-for-clunkers scheme, and loads of new taxes; Mariano Rajoy said he would only apply for a programme if interest rates were too high for too long; he describes Spain's predicament as a "fascinating situation"; an FT editorial says Spain should apply for a bailout immediately, but says eurozone imperatives may be inconsistent with Spanish politics; Ambrose Evans-Pritchard sees a German betrayal of Spain; the capital flight from Spain intensified during August; the eurozone economic outlook deteriorated further in September, according to the latest confidence survey by the European Commission; ECB data show a big contraction of lending to households; Reuters has the ESM guidelines, indicating the lending margins - with no discrimination between countries, only instruments; there are renewed signs that Mario Monti may end up heading the next Italian government - if there is no clear winner; 46% of young Italians are economically inactive; Berlusconi describes the euro as a con, and calls on the ECB to print more money; the Greek coalition agreed on a €13.5bn austerity package, with €10.5bn in savings, and the remainder in higher taxes; most of the savings come from cuts to wages, benefits and pensions; Jean-Marc Ayrault stands by his 2013 growth and deficit forecasts ahead of today's presentation of the budget; in Austria, meanwhile, a eurosceptic billionaire has launched his parliamentary campaign, with a big boost from the polls.



I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 05:20:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
when even Berlusconi makes sense:
Berlusconi attacks the Euro again

Silvio Berlusconi has called the Euro a "con," Il Fatto Quotidiano reports. He called the converion rate of 1,927 lire to the euro suicide. Due to its past, Germany is blocking every plan to save Eurozone with a monetary base increase. "The Bundesbank and Merkel have their roots in the terror of inflation," and because of this the only mandate of the ECB is that of fighting inflation. According to Berlusconi, Eurozone has two ways: the first is to start the money printing machine, the second is consider a German exit from Eurozone if Berlin continues to oppose the ECB as lender of last resort. "Germany is killing Italy, but also Eurozone," he added.



I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 05:26:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Berlu will say anything in order to weasel his way back into power. Beware.

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:23:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Eurosceptic billionaire starts Austrian election campaign

Eurosceptic auto parts magnate Frank Stronach launched his Austrian election campaign on Thursday, presenting himself as an honest man of the people to a public tired of corrupt politicians and hungry for change, Reuters reports. Despite a lack of clear policies and confusion over his attitude to the crisis-hit euro, 40% of Austrians already want to see Stronach's party - Team Stronach - in the next coalition government, according to a survey published in Der Standard. Recent polls show that Stronach would be the first choice of around 10% of Austrian voters, mainly at the expense of former supporters of the far-right Freedom Party and the alternative Pirate Party, which attracts a protest vote. Stronach reiterated his call for giving each member of the euro zone its "own" currency whose value would fluctuate in line with its fiscal and financial strength. He emphasised that as a child of war he was in favour of a united Europe to maintain peace on the continent, but would resist being dictated to by Brussels, Washington, Beijing, Moscow or anyone else.



I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 05:28:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Apparently he collected three parliamentarians of Haider's old outfit and one from the Social Democrats.
The official launch mostly consisted of him talking a lot.

Pros: He blames the banks bad investments and not lazy southerners. "Angela Merkel is either utterly stupid or in cahoots with the banks", "What is being forced on Greece..".
He is in favour of an orderly disintegration of the Eurozone, which compares favourably with the current policy of years of depression followed by disorderly collapse. No outright bashing of poor people as far as I can see.

Cons: Utter ignorance of Macroeconomics. "For 50 years we have been making losses" The pension system is supposedly close to collapse because of state debt. Also Bureaucracy!1!eleven. The state as a corporation.

Notes: He may not be a bad sort for douchey rich people but he is very old and his ego is the size of Jupiter. That is not a good combination and I give him about a 50% chance to crash and burn before the election.

by generic on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 06:53:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Reuters (via Chicago Tribune): Bank union won't absorb old risks: ECB's Weidmann (September 27, 2012)
"Anything else would be a financial transfer and those should be made transparent and not hidden under the cloak of a banking union," he said. "The primary goal of a banking union cannot be the sharing of risks."

Earlier this week, a deep divide opened between the bloc's fiscal conservatives - Germany, Austria, the Netherlands, and Finland - and its more needy partners when the four nations said that a clear line needed to be drawn between new and "legacy" difficulties that could be shouldered by the euro zone's permanent rescue fund, the ESM.

The new position, which appeared to unravel much of the bank recapitalization plans agreed at the last European summit in June, made it clear that highly indebted banks in Spain, Ireland and Greece will remain the responsibility of those countries' governments.



I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 09:32:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

  • "We can have a banking union, but it mustn't be a banking union!"

  • "I will not allow my central bank to perform a primary function of a central bank."

  • "I refuse to solve this problem!"


-----
sapere aude
by Number 6 on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 09:48:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
i am extremely well remunerated to reiterate insane drivel until i disappear below the waves.

a titanic orchestra, 1-2-3, 1-2-3, gurgle gurgle...

it also reminds me of someone holding two shorting cables in their hand and the juice paralysing their nervous system.

one cable being the 'markets' (those b-a-d speculators, gambling for the shirt off europe's back, and cog-diss alert the other cable being that these scary scary 'market forces' are nothing more than granma's portfolio managers trying to keep her savings from becoming extinct!)

it's the same fucking money, but instead of going round and round, the institutions are creaming so much off the top and being fear-based anal retentives, are hoarding offshore. it's all reactionary, reflexive.

this farce cannot but further descend into tragedy, unless the blocks and backchannels are removed and money can serve its proper function by circulating within the financial system, all the way through down to the bottom where it's most needed.

too many clever-clever monkey games.

so totally unnecessary for a sane society, useless as tits on a bull...

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 04:12:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Briefly : 30 billion euros of deficit reduction, which is alleged to bring the deficit back to 3% in 2013 (based on the absurd premise of 0.8% economic growth).

  • 10 billion in spending cuts
  • 10 billion from business, mostly in eliminating tax exemptions for big companies
  • 10 billion from households, of which 6.2 billion from the richest.


It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 06:17:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Briefly : 30 billion euros of deficit reduction, which is alleged to bring the deficit back to 3% in 2013 (based on the absurd premise of 0.8% economic growth).
<sob>

The Eurozone's giant sucking sound (28.08.2012)

If Eurozone countries (except Germany) have a persistent current account deficit averaging close to 3% (and, on current trends, soon to exceed it), and at the same time the government deficit must remain below 3%, it becomes mathematically impossible for the Eurozone private sector (outside Germany) to net-save. This is unsustainable, because if the private sector is dissaving eventually it will become insolvent.

Take, for example, France:

If France were to bring its Government deficit below 3%, it would destroy the ability of the French private sector to net-save, assuming the current account deficit stays on trend (and it should: Germany's 6% current account surplus is as stable as if it were a successful policy target, and the Eurozone's neutral current account balance is consistent with the ECB pursuing a non-interventionistic foreign reserve policy).



I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 06:32:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
if we are in a liquidity trap, do we really want the private sector to be in a net save position?

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill
by r------ on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 08:01:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Doesn't matter what we want. We are in a liquidity trap (as the not-quite-Keynesians call it) because the private sector is in a position of enforced saving.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 08:40:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In a balance sheet recession, the private sector cannot avoid striving for a large net saving position, because the alternative is immediate insolvency.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 09:48:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
large segments (corporations) in the private sector are hoarding cash?

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill
by r------ on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 10:58:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That follows from the widespread private sector insolvency. They're holding cash to meet margin calls and because there's no productive use for that cash when there is no demand for product.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 11:25:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well in that case, since no one wants to print money in the Buba, wouldn't it be better if the government got that cash instead of it sitting in the hands of those segments of the private sector who have it?

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill
by r------ on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 11:36:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Only if we trust said government to spend it?
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 12:20:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That depends on which sorts of firms have it, and the term structure of their liabilities.

It is entirely conceivable, in a situation such as the present, that a firm we would like to keep existing would hold cash or cash-equivalent assets to meet future payments due. Because they can neither be certain that they can roll over their liability, nor that any non-cash asset will be not-toilet-paper by the time they need to make payment.

Basically, it only makes sense to take the cash away if there are no short- or medium-term liabilities that the cash will be needed to meet, or if you can guarantee that those liabilities will be rolled over (which you can't, because the BuBa has its thumb up its ass).

Or if you think the company in question should be taken out back and shot on general principles. Which is, of course, the case for some companies.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 02:33:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ulrike Guérot: Germany in Europe: What Germany expects from France (28th September 2012)
Secondly, the Germans are wondering when France will start listening to (and answering) the German discussion about political union. Germans have understood that France is still hoping for Eurobonds - within the next five years - as French Finance Minister Pierre Moscovici recently restated in London - and Germans are trying to argue that these will not be `for free' but require a different set up of European democracy.  

In this respect, it was interesting to listen to Karine Berger, a member of parliament for the French Socialists, this week at a conference on European democracy and the way out of the crisis organised by the Heinrich Böll Foundation. In a panel discussion, Mme Berger stated repeatedly that she does not believe the euro has much chance of surviving if the eurozone does not ultimately enter a debt community and create Eurobonds. In essence, I agree. She said that if this does not happen, there would not be a common solution to the euro crisis. For the rest of the world, Mme. Berger continued, the currency union wouldn't exist anyway, as interests rates vary greatly again. If there is no debt community, there is no budgetary union and the euro would be finished. However, a budgetary union cannot exist without parliamentary control. Europe cannot take parliamentary control over budgets away at the national level and give it to non-parliamentary (and therefore non-democratic) institutions on the European level. So far, so good, and again I agree. But then the discussion touched on the point of the current Franco-German misunderstanding: when the moderator questioned her deeper about European parliamentary control, she answered that, indeed, the right of the EP to oversee the budget must be strengthened - but she meant the EU budget.

Germans however, are currently having a discussion on the topic and are mostly arguing that a debt community would necessitate common parliamentary control on the European level (however this might be organised), about national budgets, including, as van Rompuy's  report on a genuine banking union also requests, the introduction of a `budgetary ceiling' which ought to be under European and preferably parliamentary control.  This is probably also what ECB president Mario Draghi meant by the condition of `budgetary oversight' that he mentioned in his speech in Berlin this week at the Annual Conference of the German Industrial Association, BDI, though he did not provide an answer as to how this could and should be organised. Germans are having an intense discussion about how it could be organised. One idea is to create a Eurozone parliament, which would satisfy the requirements of parliamentary legitimacy and therefore qualify as a body for collective decision-making on both the discretionary spending of the Eurozone and the oversight of national budgetary ceilings. French ideas on this would be welcome, but they would need to go beyond strengthening the rights of the EP concerning its own budget.

With lots, lots of links.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:16:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
on how revenues from capital will be submitted to the same tax regime as revenues from labor. Devil is gonna be in the details I suspect.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill
by r------ on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:54:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
in 2013. Clearly, the Socialists have no intention of hitting the 3% target, as this is an absolutely unrealistic forecast they are pinning their budget to.

A big gamble, with a big press conference and P/R to go along with it, but one wonders what will be the next moves expected once it becomes clear that the 3% target will not in fact be reached.

It's a matter of months, at best, that this becomes clear, and then, Holland's gamble to punt the issue down the road will start showing whether ultimately it pays off or it does not.

I for one am pessimistic.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:58:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The game seems to be : OK we'll pretend to buy the Austerian lunacy that we can cut our way to growth. Then, when we've missed the 3% target because of the lack of growth, (and Spain etc likewise) then the Germans will be ready for some expansionary policies.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 09:09:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's a plan or a punt?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 09:17:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Le Parisien: L'incroyable histoire de la naissance des 3% de déficit (28.09.2012)
Ce haut fonctionnaire, Guy Abeille, l'avoue aujourd'hui : les 3 %, inventés en une heure un soir de juin 1981, ne reposaient sur aucune théorie économique mais, pour cette raison sans doute, il convint parfaitement à François Mitterrand, qui avait exigé, pour faire barrage à ses ministres trop dépensiers, un chiffre rond et facile à retenir. Et voici comment le fondement de notre politique budgétaire, imposé comme une règle d'airain à toute l'Europe, a vu le jour... au doigt mouillé.
The Incredible Story of the Birth of the 3% Deficit
This high functionary, Guy Abeille, confesses today: the 3%, invented in an hour one evening in June 1981, did not rest on any economic theory but, no doubt for this very reason, it was perfectly convenient for François Mitterrand, qho had demanded, to rein in his spendthrift ministers, a round number easy to remember. Behold how the foundation of our budget policy, imposed as an iron rule on all of Europe, saw the light of day... with a finger in the air.


I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:00:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
(I should read more French.)

Finger in the air indeed.

-----
sapere aude

by Number 6 on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:37:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The expression "au doigt mouillé" means testing for wind direction by sticking up a wet finger.

In this case, sticking up where might be interesting to know.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 09:31:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I was at a loss translating that. How would you have done it?

Maybe "how [it] saw the light of day... out of their sleeve/thin air/their arse"?

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 09:47:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I regularly hear native (UK) colleagues say "finger in the air", so that's probably the best translation for the expression by itself.

In context I (not a native speaker) would say "out of thin air" is the best current phrase and fits with the rest of the sentence.

-----
sapere aude

by Number 6 on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 09:54:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't know, it's not easy to translate.

By rule of thumb?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 10:39:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Otherwise it evokes for me the alternative French expression "à vue de nez" (colloquially "au pif"), that is, in Occitan/Catalan "a vista de nas" and in Castilian (I think) "a vista de nariz".

But English doesn't use noses like that.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 10:43:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think there's some method to the madness in the case of 'a rule of thumb', which is not the case with a licked finger in the wind.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 02:53:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
F*$!
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:48:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, really!

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 09:24:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I guess we should be grateful that the didn't pick 0%...
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 10:54:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Presseurop: The secret of 3% finally revealed (28 September 2012)
Guy Abeille, age 62, a former senior Budget Ministry official and "the inventor of the concept, endlessly repeated by all governments whether of the right or the left, that the public deficit should not exceed 3% of the national wealth," told the newspaper -
We came up with the 3% figure in less than an hour. It was a back of an envelope calculation, without any theoretical reflection. Mitterrand needed an easy rule that he could deploy in his discussions with ministers who kept coming into his office to demand money. [...] We needed something simple. 3%? It was a good number that had stood the test of time, somewhat reminiscent of the Trinity.
The daily remarks on the strange character of this anecdote: "In an irony of history, the technocrats in Brussels drew on the legendary 3% for inspiration when creating another rule [stipulated by the new Fiscal Compact], just as factitiously Cartesian, which obliges states to limit their structural deficits to 0.5%. Why not 1% or 2% ? No one really knows."


I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 09:28:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We needed something simple. 3%? It was a good number that had stood the test of time, somewhat reminiscent of the Trinity.

Just wow.
There is material here for several books on political theory, sociology, anthropology ...

The wikipedia article on Abeille links to this from 2010:
Pourquoi le déficit à 3% du PIB est une invention 100%... française

J'en viens au seuil magique - pour un peu, chamanique - du déficit à 3% du PIB.


-----
sapere aude
by Number 6 on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 10:56:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Speaking of the Trinity...

Look at that effort of thirty billion euros of debt reduction in the French budget (nice round number!)

  • 10 billion in spending cuts (the father?)
  • 10 billion from business (the son?)
  • 10 billion from households (holy moley!)


It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 11:00:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Why do we pay these people again?

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 12:36:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's sometimes cheaper to pay them directly than to have them form think tanks.

(Not always, so remember to ask me about each case individually.)

-----
sapere aude

by Number 6 on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 03:43:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
An American strategic analyst I met briefly at a conference way back in Copenhagen insisted that 3.18 was a magic number of stability in 'economics': he had some algorithm based on sustainable growth, paying down debt through inflation and the fact that 3.18% growth would represent a doubling in 22 years i.e. a generation.  He never once mentioned chaos theory, but (and here I am open to brickbats) in complex dynamic systems there does appear to be algorithmic significance.

I'm not impressed by generational theories since the birth rate in most societies is fairly stable during a couple of decades. 'Generation' as in 'Talking about my...'. Generations continuously overlap, but the major phenomena that influence the culture of a society (pan-generationally): Depression, WWII, the Beatles, Thatcher, or whatever, do have an impact/aftermath that is maintained within a certain period (22 years?), after which the phenomena tend to become museified.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 01:16:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
22 years i.e. a generation

Yeah, and 22 = 2*11.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 01:25:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I shall leave others to point out the significance of fractal dimensions - it's beyond my pay grade.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 01:34:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Which goes to prove all even numbers can be derived as the sum of two primes.


She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 01:47:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Do not drink and derive.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 02:51:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Algorithm:  A process or set of rules to be followed in calculations or other problem-solving operations

The canonical definition of the Mandlebrot Set:

Is an algorithm.  

So is the Feigenbaum Function.  But whether one "gets" this:

this:

or this:

depends on one's interpretive stance.

[Note:  the last is a sculpture presented to Dr. Feigenbaum by Stephen Wolfram.]

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 01:41:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's good to know that obfuscational colleagues can rise to the occasion ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 01:49:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not as such:

ABSTRACT. We provide a definition of an attractor to a multivalued iterated function system (IFS) modelled on previous ones existing in the literature (e.g. [Hale, J. K.: Asymptotic Behavior of Dissipative Systems. Math. Surveys Monographs 25, Amer. Math. Soc, Providence, RI, 1988]). Such an attractor expressing asymptotic behaviour of a system does not need to be invariant. Then, as a remedy there serves the uniform Hausdorff upper semicontinuity It was recently shown that condensing multifunctions possess a maximal invariant set which is
compact. The theorem ensuring the existence of attractors considered here also exploits compactness-like hypothesis slightly stronger than condensity, namely contractivity with respect to measure of noncompactness. Hence contractivity in measure and uniform Hausdorff upper semicontinuity together do guarantee existence of a compact attractor which is maximal invariant and unique. We also supply examples (e.g. unbounded attractor) and state further questions.

:-þ
pfffffffttttttttthhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 02:03:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I shall introduce you to my friends in Finland as a nutter. It's expected of me.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 02:16:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nutter?  Not as such.  I very seldom go gathering nuts.

I prefer to think of myself as one who works on the leading edge, expanding the boundaries of what is possible with human/cybernetic Information Systems:



She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 02:29:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Italian seismologists could get four years for incorrect earthquake prediction - CSMonitor.com

According to prosecutors, the six researchers and the Department of Civil Protection downplayed the likelihood that a series of tremors that hit the city in early 2009 were foreshadowing a larger quake. On April 6, 2009, a magnitude-6.3 earthquake killed 309 city residents.

The trial, which began about a year ago, has worried scientists, who point out that earthquake prediction is not possible. But prosecutors insist that the trial is not about predicting the unpredictable, according to Nature News. During closing arguments on Monday and Tuesday (Sept. 24-25), the prosecution assistant told the courtroom that instead, the scientists and officials had inadequately assessed the risk of a quake and given deceptive information to the public.



'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:37:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Harsh, dude.
Get ready for weekly 7.0 predictions everywhere.


-----
sapere aude
by Number 6 on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:42:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There"s a long list of climate change deniers that could be in trouble...
by asdf on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 01:13:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 03:21:52 PM EST
BBC News - Spain budget imposes further austerity measures

Spain has set out its austerity budget for 2013, with new spending cuts but protection for pensions, amid a shrinking economy and 25% unemployment.

Deputy Prime Minister Soraya Saenz de Santamaria called it "a crisis budget designed to exit the crisis".

The new programme of savings, tax rises and structural reforms will be overseen by an new budget authority.

Expectations are growing that Spain will seek a financial bailout from its eurozone partners.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 03:25:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Spanish government unveils austerity budget for 2013 | News | DW.DE | 27.09.2012

The Spanish government has announced its toughest package of austerity measures yet, as it seeks to bring down the country's high budget deficit. This comes despite two days of sometimes violent protests in Madrid.

Spain's conservative government unveiled 40 billion euros ($51 billion) in spending cuts in its 2013 budget on Thursday.

The austerity measures are the toughest yet as the government of Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy battles to bring down one of the biggest budgetary deficits among the 17 countries that use the euro common currency.

The bulk of the cuts are to government ministries, which are to see their budgets cut by an average of 8.9 percent next year.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 03:53:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
EU seeks billions in sanctions against US | Business | DW.DE | 27.09.2012

The World Trade Organization has said the European Union wants billions of euros from the US in return for what it calls illegal subsidies. It believes Boeing has been unfairly supported for years on end.

The European Union (EU) is seeking a total of $12 billion (9.3 billion euros) in annual sanctions from the US as part of a long-running dispute over what it claims are illegal subsidies for Airbus' main rival, Boeing, the World Trade Organization (WTO) confirmed on Thursday.

The WTO said in a statement it had received an official request from the EU to approve what would be the most costly sanctions ever in a trade dispute.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 03:53:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
German president's signature gives green light to ESM | News | DW.DE | 27.09.2012

The German president has signed legislation approving the country's participation in the eurozone's permanent financial bailout fund. He had delayed signing the bill due to legal challenges to the legislation.

President Joachim Gauck signed into law the German parliament's ratification of the European Stability Mechanism on Thursday. This removes the final hurdle to the implementation of the eurozone's permanent bailout fund.

The president's office said in a statement that Gauck had "signed the documents with which the treaty ... setting up the European Stability Mechanism (ESM) is ratified."

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 04:10:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Greek coalition reaches basic savings agreement | Business | DW.DE | 27.09.2012

Greece's coalition government has reached a basic agreement on a new round of austerity measures for 2013-2014. It has thus moved a decisive step closer to unlocking fresh bailout funds from international creditors.

The coalition government in Greece announced on Thursday it had agreed on the fundamental points of a multi-billion-euro savings package needed to qualify from a fresh injection of cash from creditors.

"We have agreed on the main points, and we're now moving forward to the final negotiations," Finance Minister Yannis Stournaras (in the picture) told reporters in Athens.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 04:11:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Paris Motor Show opens in sputtering market phase | Business News | DW.DE | 27.09.2012

The Paris Motor Show has opened its doors to privileged guests, ahead of its official weekend opening. Few of the carmakers have much to shout about, especially concerning sales in the key European market.

Automobile producers in Europe might be grateful for the distraction from their balance sheets as they seek to show off their wares in Paris over the next fortnight. Sales figures on the crucial European continent have been dwindling, and there was little optimism to be heard from the "home" manufacturers PSA Peugeot Citroen or Renault.

"I don't think one can hope for an upturn next year," PSA Peugeot Citroen boss Philippe Varin said of the European market, predicting growth of "around zero" or even "slightly negative" for 2013.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 04:13:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If yer gonna talk about cars, I want a Tesla Model S electric car.

Or, actually, I want the money to buy one. And if I had that money, I wouldn't buy a Tesla, I'd buy one of these instead.

by asdf on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 01:28:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
French govt in `tug-of-war' with steel giant - FRANCE - FRANCE 24

The French government urged ArcelorMittal on Thursday to restart idled blast furnaces at a plant in northeastern France or put them up for sale, declaring itself in a "tug-of-war" with the steel giant over their fate.

President François Hollande held talks with ArcelorMittal's chief executive after a media report that the firm will shut the furnaces at a plant which became symbolic of France's industrial decline.

Speaking to angry workers at the plant in the town of Florange, Industry Minister Arnaud Montebourg said Hollande had called on Lakshmi Mittal to invest 150 million euros in the site or sell the furnaces.

"We are now in a conflict with ArcelorMittal," Montebourg said in a speech frequently interrupted by jeers. "It's a difficult tug-of-war."

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 04:28:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This kind of government meddling is not helpful.

Instead of whining and making waves the French government should institute reforms which make it more profitable to run steel mills in France (like making capital investments tax deductible), reforms that create alternative jobs for unemployed steel workers (like part-funding retraining programs in collaboration with industrial companies in sectors where there is a lack of trained workers) and reforms that make workers worry less worried about being fired from unprofitable companies (like making time-limited unemployment insurance more generous).

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:31:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
S.Africa's credit rating hit by political tumult - FRANCE 24

AFP - Moody's downgraded South Africa's credit rating by one notch on Thursday, citing concerns about the government's ability to tackle economic problems and warning political jostling within the ruling ANC could prompt further cuts.

The drop to a Baa1 rating will likely spell higher government borrowing costs in Africa's largest economy and will further spook investors already worried by rolling strikes, creaking infrastructure and political instability.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 04:29:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Unemployment in France surpasses three million - FRANCE - FRANCE 24

French unemployment topped three million for the first time in over a decade, data showed Wednesday, as the country faces a yawning budget gap like those plaguing its southern eurozone neighbours.

The number of jobless in mainland France swelled to 3.011 million in August, 23,900 more than in July, Labour Ministry figures showed, the first time since 1999 that the figure has breached the three million mark.

Some 4.494 million people, including some who are partially employed, have registered themselves as actively looking for work on the French mainland. This is 40,800 more than in July and a record since the ministry began collecting comparable data in 1991.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 04:35:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 03:22:07 PM EST
Netanyahu draws red line on Iranian enrichment | News | DW.DE | 27.09.2012

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu brought in a graphic aid at the UN General Assembly, calling for a red line to be placed on Iran's efforts to enrich uranium. Israel believes Iran is seeking nuclear weapons.

Netanyahu told the General Assembly that Iran might not respond to policies of deterrence once it had developed nuclear weapons, a position he called "a very dangerous assumption." The Israeli prime minister argued instead that "a red line needs to be placed first and foremost on Iran's effort to enrich uranium."

Netanyahu said such red lines do not lead to war, but rather prevent it.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 04:10:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Fortunately, everyone knows that he has no credibility with the Obama administration and, lacking that, he has no support anywhere.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 03:17:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
UN issues dire Syrian refugee warning | News | DW.DE | 27.09.2012

The United Nations refugee agency has warned that the number of people to have fled Syria could reach 700,000 by the end of the year. The warning comes as Syria reels from the "bloodiest day" of the conflict so far.

UN aid agencies issued an appeal for $487.9 million (379 million euro) in financial aid on Thursday as the UN's refugee agency issued its latest warning over the rising number of Syrians fleeing the 18-month conflict.

Around 294,000 refugees have already fled to neighboring countries the UN said, with at least 700,000 expected to have left Syria by the end of the year. The figure far surpasses previous forecasts, which estimated that around 185,000 Syrians would have left by December.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 04:12:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
UN warns Syrian refugees may number 700,000 by year-end - SYRIA - FRANCE 24

The number of refugees fleeing Syria could reach 700,000 by the end of the year, the U.N. refugee agency said on Thursday, almost four times its previous forecast.

About 294,000 refugees fleeing 18 months of conflict in Syria have crossed into four neighbouring countries - Jordan, Iraq, Lebanon and Turkey - or await registration there, it said.

"This is a significant outflow taking place, 100,000 people in August, 60,000 in September and at the moment 2,000 or 3,000 per day or night," Panos Moumtzis, regional refugee coordinator for the U.N. refugee agency UNHCR, told a news briefing.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 04:27:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I "like" how we have specialised terminology for this now, such as "outflow".


-----
sapere aude
by Number 6 on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 06:16:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Bundeswehr wraps up mission in Bosnia-Herzegovina | News | DW.DE | 27.09.2012

Three remaining German soldiers are heading home, ending the Bundeswehr's longest military mission abroad. But there are doubts whether the EU mission in Bosnia-Herzegovina has achieved lasting peace and stability.

The general secretary of Germany's governing Christian Democratic Union (CDU) expressed his respect and gratitude for a total of 60 000 German soldiers who served in the country over the past 17 years.

"We remember especially the 18 German servicemen who lost their lives in the course of that mission," Hermann Gröhe said on Thursday.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 04:12:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Don't believe the hype about presidential debates | Transatlantic Voices | DW.DE | 27.09.2012

Pundits have called the US presidential debates Mitt Romney's last best chance to win the race. Not so fast, says Vincent Michelot. Debates can change the outcome of the election, but only under certain circumstances.

Do the debates between presidential candidates really matter? The short answer: It depends. How important are the upcoming three debates between Barack Obama and Mitt Romney? In a nutshell: Not very much.

In general, the significance of debates and their impact on the result of the elections are vastly overblown by the press which loves dramatic acts and game-changers. They are part of those campaign rituals which are supposedly turning points three days before and two days after. But they vanish in the distance of insignificance when political scientists look at an election a year later with hard data at hand.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 04:25:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I won't waste my time and feel sick to my stomach by watching the debates ... Rachel Maddow, Amy Goodman, and Jon Stewart will do the work for me.

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 08:05:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A tiny victory for the Occupy movement in Chicago.  A judge there finds almost 100 arrests to have been unconstitutional.

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher
by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 05:02:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Doesn't that open the door for civil suits for damages?

(IANAL)

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 01:01:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC: China's Bo Xilai 'expelled from party to face charges' (28 September 2012)
His wife, Gu Kailai, was convicted in August of killing UK national Neil Heywood and given a suspended death sentence.

...

The state news agency, Xinhua, said Mr Bo would face charges relating to alleged corruption, abuse of power, bribe-taking and improper relations with women.

...

In addition to the sentence passed on Gu Kailai, Chongqing's former police chief Wang Lijun has been sentenced to 15 years in jail for ''bending the law, defection, abuse of power and bribetaking".




I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 06:47:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"abuse of power and and improper relations with women" - weren't those the things that basically defined the great Chairman?

Am I right in concluding that the expulsion is a pre-requisite, i.e. that he couldn't be tried while a member? Surely that's not way thing work officially?

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sapere aude

by Number 6 on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 06:53:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 03:22:28 PM EST
Sudan and South Sudan loosen oil flow with partial deal | News | DW.DE | 27.09.2012

The presidents of Sudan and South Sudan have inked cooperation and trade deals designed to resume the flow of South Sudanese oil through Sudanese pipelines. The uncomfortable neighbors still dispute their border.

South Sudan said oil production and deliveries would resume by the end of the year after the signing of a landmark deal with Sudan at an African Union (AU) summit.

"Today is a great day in the history of our region, and in particular Sudan and South Sudan, as we witness the signing of the cooperation agreement that brings to an end the long conflict between our two countries," South Sudan's President Salva Kiir said at the signing ceremony in a five-star hotel in Addis Ababa.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 04:11:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Migratory sharks inch closer to extinction | Environment | DW.DE | 27.09.2012

Almost a fifth of the world's sharks are endangered. That's prompted many nations to enact protection measures but several Asian countries are lobbying hard for continued shark hunting.

Sarah Fowler's first close encounter with sharks was while she was diving in Australia. Suddenly, she found herself surrounded by an enormous school of nurse sharks. She lifted herself onto a rock and watched, mesmerized, as they swam past.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 04:26:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oldest reproductive orangutan dies in France - FRANCE 24

AFP - A Sumatran orangutan believed to be the oldest reproductive specimen in captivity has died at a zoo in western France, a few weeks after celebrating his 50th birthday.

Major, a 125-kilogramme (275-pound) father of 16 who celebrated his birthday in July, died overnight Tuesday at the zoo in La Boissiere-du-Dore near Nantes, zoo director Sebastien Laurent said.

"I saw him playing on Monday, as he often did, with his children. On Tuesday he ate normally, made his bed and followed all his little habits," Laurent said.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 04:26:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Red squirrel populations wiped out in northern Italy | Environment | guardian.co.uk

Red squirrels have been wiped out from a large swath of northern Italy, threatening a further biodiversity crisis for the species on a par with its near extinction in the British Isles.

There are now no red squirrels left in an area of more than 1,150 square kilometres (sq km) in Piedmont, according to research from the universities of Turin, Genoa and Varese. On the edge of this large region, the species is also under threat from the incursions of grey squirrels.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 04:38:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
how odd, i have seen more of them than any other year here. they are dark red, almost brown, much darker than those i saw in california. they are slighter in guild too.

i wonder why they would go south, it seems counter-intuitive.

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 06:07:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
i mean in central italy, and build not guild, typo.

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 06:08:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, if the squirrels had a proper guild perhaps they'd do better in the fight against the laissez-fair free market squirrels.

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sapere aude
by Number 6 on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 06:18:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In my area of SW France we see both the typical red squirrel (ginger) and the darker red with practically a brown tail. No grey squirrels here at all.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 04:06:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
no greys here either, or ginger ones either.

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 06:34:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
They can have some of ours, we have lots. Oh no they can't, as the EU has banned squirrel hunting.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:34:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Seriously?

Sweet mother of Jesus.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 08:05:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What are we going to eat? </distraught>
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 08:20:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hey, I don't care one way or the other on whether squirrels are to people's tastes, but this seems to be just the sort of silliness Brussels is known for.

Silly laws for the plebes, silly economic policy for all.

Spoken as one who has shot more than a few in his youth, with a pellet gun.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 08:22:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It used to be a way to introduce youth to hunting. They could hang out in the forest without adult supervision, and fun was had by all. Now they've got to wait until age 15 when you are allowed full-power rifles.

Sad. And squirrel furs are very nice. Even if they haven't been economically relevant since the the industrial revolution came along, they used to be one of the big Swedish exports 500 years ago. And money isn't everything.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 08:29:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Nah. Brussels didn't do it.

The red squirrel (sciurus vulgaris) is a protected species because the grey squirrel (sciurus carolinensis) drives it out and destroys it in entire regions. The grey squirrel is not protected.

The EU (or EEC) did not decree this protection, it was the Council of Europe's Berne Convention in 1979 (Annex III).

Having seen as a kid the red squirrel wiped out and replaced by the grey in the English countryside, I don't see anything silly about it.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 08:58:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Grey squirrel is not pushing out red squirrel from Sweden, probably because of the different ecosystem over here. Still, both red and grey squirrels are illegal to hunt over here, as a result of Brussels diktats.

Seems I was wrong on the timing though. The ban went into force some time in the 2000's.

:: ::

Ok, I can't find any references to EU meddling (damn, I was sure about this!). It seems our domestic idiots at the Nature Protection Agency thought that as the furs weren't economically valuable and that people don't eat the squirrels very often, the hunting was made illegal. Outrageous, but this is the situation all Swedish hunters suffer under: totally out of touch politically untouchable bureaucrats inventing and implementing very curious rules, straight out of the blue.

Maybe the EU still had something to do with, just that I can't find any sources. I'll have to check out my hunting rule books to make sure.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 09:51:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Starvid:
Brussels diktats... The ban went into force some time in the 2000's.

I've given you chapter and verse on it. Sweden signed the Berne Convention in 1979 and applied it in 1983. It has nothing to do with Brussels.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 09:55:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think you might be right. But it was legal to hunt squirrel (both kinds) up until the early 2000's.

I might have mixed it up with raven hunting which was banned, due to I believe EU pressure. Which is how it aquired the name EU-kråka (EU-crow).

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 09:57:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Looks like you can get dispensation for individual squirrels that cause trouble.

Otherwise legal December - January or September - February depending where in the country you are.

(Man, the internet is a cornucopia of conflicting information! Yes, I just noticed.)


-----
sapere aude

by Number 6 on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 10:05:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Do you have to apply for a "cease and desist" injunction first?

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 10:18:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Possibly ... :)

In both of the cases I found, the squirrel disappeared between applying for the permit and getting the shotgun out. Maybe they have an inside connection in the postal system.


-----
sapere aude

by Number 6 on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 10:26:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yep. It was a demand if Sweden were to be allowed to become a EU member back in 1995. Not that squirrels are endangered or anything. But too cute or something, I suppose.

Yay for the principle of subsidarity!

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 08:24:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sweden signed the Berne Convention on Wildlife in 1979 and brought it into application in 1983.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 09:08:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
'Ugly' fruit and veg make the grade on UK supermarket shelves | Environment | guardian.co.uk

Knobbly carrots, wonky spuds, bent courgettes and discoloured cauliflowers will return to supermarket shelves after one of the worst growing seasons farmers have experienced in decades.

The driest March in 59 years, followed by the wettest June and autumn storms and flooding have reduced British fruit and vegetable harvests by more than 25% and left supermarkets unable to source their regular shaped, blemish-free produce.

On Thursday, Sainsbury's relaxed its rules on the cosmetic appearance of fresh produce and allowed fruit and vegetables that would normally be ploughed back into fields to be sold in its 1,012 stores.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 04:38:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I hope this changes their policies generally. It's horribly wasteful

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 03:21:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Funny how people (like me) only realise these things when you mention it (or if they grow their own).

-----
sapere aude
by Number 6 on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 06:20:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Plastic debris reaches Southern Ocean, previously thought to be pristine | Environment | guardian.co.uk

The first traces of plastic debris have been found in what was thought to be the pristine environment of the Southern Ocean, according to a study released in London by the French scientific research vessel Tara.

The finding comes following a two-and-a-half-year, 70,000-mile voyage by the schooner across the Atlantic, Pacific, Antarctic and Indian Oceans, to investigate marine ecosystems and biodiversity under climate change.

"We had always assumed that this was a pristine environment, very little touched by human beings," said Chris Bowler, scientific co-ordinator of Tara Oceans. "The fact that we found these plastics is a sign that the reach of human beings is truly planetary in scale."

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 04:39:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
'Nemesis' breaks electric car land speed record | Environment | guardian.co.uk

A battery-powered car designed to "smash the boring, Noddy stereotype of the green car" broke the UK electric land speed record on Thursday.

The Nemesis, a Lotus Exige modified by utility company Ecotricity, reached an average speed of 151mph near York today. It was driven by 21-year-old Nick Ponting, who started racing go-karts at the age of 12, and first broke the record by hitting 148mph earlier today at Elvington airfield in North Yorkshire.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 04:40:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Swazi Observer

The study discovered that the cremations were dirty too. Dental fillings mean that they account for as much as a fifth of Britain's mercury emissions; regulations require crematoria to cut mercury emissions by half by 2012. There is also the call for green burials. "This could mean sharing hearses, or using homegrown flowers and coffins made with cardboard or willow, which biodegrade easily."
The economist reported in 2010 that new technologies are changing the picture, one such is water cremation or alkaline hydrolysis, where a corpse is placed into a heated solution of water and potassium hydroxide. In a few hours, the corpse dissolves into an inorganic liquid, which can be used as fertiliser, and a white ash-like residue. Another nascent technology takes a different approach, The body is freeze-dried in liquid nitrogen, then vibrated so that it dissolves into a fine powder. Furthermore processes evaporate water and remove things like mercury. The residue can be put into a shallow grave and turns to mulch in about a year.
DA Roth of Signatureurns writes that a cemetery in Victoria state in Australia has begun an innovative way to bury the dead in an environmental friendly and inexpensive way; an alternative to cremation. This is "standing room only" for those who choose to be buried in this unique cemetery. The deceased are placed in biodegradable body bags instead of the normal caskets, and buried vertically on land that is used for animal grazing.


'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 08:14:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm finding it odd that my instinctive reaction is that cremation is hygienic, but dissolving bodies and using them as fertiliser is a step or two too close to Soylent Green.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:27:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Bizarre 2012 earthquake signals birth of world's newest tectonic plate - CSMonitor.com

Turning a corner

Data captured by a global network of seismometers on April 11 revealed almost immediately that this quake was a strike-slip earthquake -- the sort that races along the San Andreas Fault. Strike-slip earthquakes occur when two sides of a fault jolt horizontally, displacing the ground sideways. Since these earthquakes don't shove the ocean floor upward -- a required move for tsunami generation -- no deadly wave appeared. [April 2012 Sumatra Quake (Infographic)]

Tsunamis are typically the devastating handiwork of quakes known as subduction earthquakes. They're the most powerful earthquakes on the planet, and they occur at plate boundaries, where one tectonic plate is grinding inexorably beneath another. When the bottom plate suddenly lurches deeper, a colossal amount of energy is released, unleashing the sorts of massive earthquakes and calamitous tsunamis that hit the Indian Ocean in 2004 and the coast of Japan in March 2011. [7 Craziest Ways Japan's Earthquake Affected Earth]

It quickly became apparent that the April 11 earthquake was the most powerful strike-slip quake ever recorded. Which was strange.

Not only was the quake of unparalleled power, it hit in the middle of a tectonic plate, not at a plate boundary, like the San Andreas Fault. "So already it has two unusual attributes," said Thorne Lay, a professor of earth and planetary sciences at the University of California, Santa Cruz, and an author on one of the papers published today.

Lay and his team set out to construct a blow-by-blow account of how the earthquake progressed, and what they found added to the quake's mystique. This earthquake was able to turn corners.



'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 06:43:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 03:22:43 PM EST
BBC News - Ancient statue discovered by Nazis is made from meteorite

An ancient Buddhist statue that was recovered by a Nazi expedition in the 1930s was originally carved from a highly valuable meteorite.

Researchers say the 1,000-year-old object with a swastika on its stomach is made from a rare form of iron with a high content of nickel.

They believe it is part of the Chinga meteorite, which crashed about 15,000 years ago.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 03:24:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is this the plot of Indiana Jones V?
by IM on Sat Sep 29th, 2012 at 05:34:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Activists honored in 'alternative Nobels' | News | DW.DE | 27.09.2012

Afghan doctor Sima Samar has been awarded the Rights Livelihood Award for her dedication to human rights. Other recipients of the "alternative Nobel" include scholar Gene Sharp and Britain's Campaign Against Arms Trade.

Four activists were awarded Sweden's prestigious 2012 Right Livelihood Award on Thursday their work promoting human rights, conservation and combating the global arms trade.

Sima Samar, 55, was honored by the jury "for her longstanding and courageous dedication to human rights, especially the rights of women, in one of the most complex and dangerous regions in the world."

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 04:12:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Experts fear a 'Talibanization' of Afghan justice | Asia | DW.DE | 27.09.2012

The lashing of a teenage girl in Afghanistan for having an "illegal relationship" has caused an uproar inside and outside the country. Experts fear a "Talibanization" of the Afghan justice system.

On September 16, three mullahs in the southern Afghan province of Ghazni sentenced 16-year-old Sabera to 100 lashes for having an "illegal relationship" with a boy. On Monday, September 24, hundreds of students and rights activists took to the streets to protest so-called "desert trials" such as the one which tried Sabera, which take place without due process of law and are held by the Taliban and local clerics.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 04:25:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, yes, yes. We know. The ptb want the Afghan war to carry on forever because it's so lucrative, so, in advance of the 2014 pull out, suddenly we're being told that things are going to heck over there and awful things are happening.

NEWSFLASH : There has not been a single month since we invaded when awful things were not done to women in Afghanistan. We could have taken our role in reforming the country seriously back in 2002, but instead our f wit leadership decided that we'd had enough fun blowing up a medieval society and so went off and destroyed a 20th century one instead.

And anytime anyone suggested we'd wasted and continued to waste our blood and treasure they say "we're protecting the women" even if they weren't (which they weren't). And now, 10 years later, they're still not protecting the women and still claiming that, if we pull out, the women will have a hard time.

Well, it might have helped if you'd really done something about it in the first place by, I dunno, actually protecting the women

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 03:27:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I particularly appreciate how much the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan have done to protect our freedoms in Europe and the US.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:29:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Have just started to re-read Moby-Dick after 40 years of it sitting on my shelf--published 1851.

Page 29: "BLOODY BATTLE IN AFFGHANISTAN"

Could have erased 160 years off the calendar...

by asdf on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 02:02:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
See also John Watson, MD. (1880)

Wikipedia has a category called "Category:Wars involving Afghanistan". I know Wikipedians create category pages at the drop of a hat, but I still think that's the saddest thing I've seen today.

Any wonder they're fed up?

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sapere aude

by Number 6 on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 04:11:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Wikipedia fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia"

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 11:12:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This amused me.
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Sat Sep 29th, 2012 at 02:25:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Happy to be of service.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Sep 29th, 2012 at 02:37:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Are we there yet? Pakistan plans bus route to UK - FRANCE 24

AFP - Authorities in Pakistan are planning to launch a bus route from the Kashmir town of Mirpur to the British city of Birmingham -- 8,000 kilometres (5,000 miles) away.

The mammoth journey will take travellers through some of the most dangerous areas of Pakistan on their way to Iran, Turkey and Europe before reaching the Midlands city after around eight days, officials said.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 04:28:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I .. er .. what?
Birmingham?

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sapere aude
by Number 6 on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 06:35:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Birmingham.

Plenty of immigrants in the Midlands. (Probably because they can't afford to live in London.)

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:30:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
OK, I was going to say "why not Bradford?" Maybe that's too far North.

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sapere aude
by Number 6 on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:40:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The original influx into Leicester (post-war) was principally down to the textile industry and the teaching of making textiles. When I was studying at Leicester College of Art (as it then was), there were students from many of the developing countries. There were fewer, but a still considerable number, studying boots and shoes, and even engineering students. These were the 3 industries that powered Leicester from the early 20th century through several depressions. One of these industries always continued to thrive in downturns, leading to a city per capita income that was in the world top ten in the Thirties.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 10:19:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Never mind Birmingham... Mirpur?
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 08:06:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
(FWIW, it's a joke, I know many of those with Pakistani links in Birmingham have links to Mirpur...)
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 08:08:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Because it's only a short bus ride from Leicester.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 09:58:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You mean the bus to Mirpur is quicker than the bus to Leicester?
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 10:57:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, it depends if you're starting from Loughborough or Market Harborough.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 11:13:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
First international art auction for mainland China - FRANCE 24

AFP - For the first time in mainland China's history, a work of art went under the hammer Thursday from an international fine-art auction house, following Sotheby's signing of a joint venture with a state-owned company.

The piece, a sculpture by the Chinese artist Wang Huaiqing, was sold for 1.4 million yuan ($222,000, 173,000 euros).

Sotheby's announced last week it was signing the deal with Beijing GeHua Art Company, in a move that gives it a foothold in China -- where foreign auction houses have been prevented by law from operating.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 04:30:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Chinese - civilised by the West at last.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:30:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
John Terry verdict: FA finds Chelsea captain guilty over racism charge | Football | guardian.co.uk

John Terry is considering an appeal after the FA's disciplinary hearing found him guilty of "using abusive language" towards QPR's Anton Ferdinand last October which "included a reference to colour and/or race".

The independent regulatory commission delivered its verdict on Thursday after a four-day hearing, ruling that Terry must serve a four-game ban and pay a fine of £220,000.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 04:37:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The open-source world has learned to deal with a flood of new, oftentimes divergent, ideas using hosting services like GitHub -- so why can't governments? In this rousing talk Clay Shirky shows how democracies can take a lesson from the Internet, to be not just transparent but also to draw on the knowledge of all their citizens.


You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 04:08:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Man behind Innocence of Muslims held after violating probation | World news | The Guardian

The California man behind a crudely produced anti-Islamic video that has inflamed parts of the Middle East has been declared a flight risk and detained by a federal court judge.

Citing a lengthy pattern of deception, US central district chief magistrate judge Suzanne Segal said Nakoula Basseley Nakoula should be held after officials said he violated his probation from a 2010 check fraud conviction.

"The court has a lack of trust in this defendant at this time," Segal said.

Nakoula had eight probation violations, including lying to his probation officers and using aliases, and he might face new charges that carry a maximum two-year prison term, authorities said.

After his 2010 conviction, Nakoula was sentenced to 21 months in prison and was barred from using computers or the internet for five years without approval from his probation officer.



It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 05:04:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
New York: The Police and the Protesters by Michael Greenberg | The New York Review of Books

"There are ways to use the system to challenge the system," said Siegel. "Unfortunately, Occupy wasn't willing or sophisticated enough to maneuver in this manner."2

To be sure, OWS's no-negotiation policy wasn't the only, or even the main, cause of the harsh police crackdown. But on the street level it did serve to exacerbate an atmosphere of escalating confrontation. Some activists regarded every officer as the representative of an enemy state, cursing in their faces across the metal barricades, hoping to provoke a violent response, it sometimes seemed, that could be digitally recorded and then broadcast on Occupy's global Internet feed. During the movement's early days last fall, scenes of police brutality dramatically fueled Occupy's popular rise. But after protesters were evicted from Zuccotti Park on November 15, clashes with police followed a law of diminishing returns, isolating activists, diverting attention from the social and economic injustices the movement had set out to challenge, and scaring away less militant supporters.

During the movement's heyday in Zuccotti Park in the autumn of 2011, I heard many blue-collar officers express sympathy for its message. In a financial district bar one night in early November, a group of six or seven off-duty cops told me they disapproved of the aggressiveness of some of their superiors and colleagues. There were always a few "sadistic types," they said, who used the opportunity of a free-for-all demonstration to have "what to them is a good time." In general, the group agreed that "these kids are making sense," as one female officer put it. They all considered political demonstrations to be "a great gig. There are no guns pointed at us and we get time and a half." Obviously, the personal political beliefs of New York's 36,000 police officers vary widely, a fact that Occupy protesters, for the most part, seemed either to ignore or not understand.

The First Amendment right that activists fatally seemed to misinterpret is that of freedom of assembly. Their confusion is understandable. Freedom of assembly is a concept, not a fixed law, a shifting proposition that is constantly being challenged, if not entirely redefined. The confusion that perennially surrounds it derives from the fact that it is not an absolute right; it depends on circumstances and must take into account the interests of competing groups. Reasonable time, place, and manner of assembly are among several governing factors. You can't, for example, trespass in the name of free assembly or obstruct the free movement of others or appropriate a public space in a way that excludes those who have an equal right to use it.



'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 06:40:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 03:23:05 PM EST
JK Rowling leaves wizards behind with first adult novel - LITERATURE - FRANCE 24

First reviews of Harry Potter author JK Rowling's novel for adults on Thursday praised its Dickensian scope and social message, but warned the gritty, even obscene tale was a far cry from Hogwarts.

Shortly before the release of the hotly awaited "The Casual Vacancy", several reviewers said they were taken aback to read grimy scenes of sex and drugs, but added the author's most vivid writing was on the familiar ground of adolescence.

"I had just read a passage written by the world's favourite children's author in which a teenager is raped by her mother's heroin dealer, a man who may well be the father of the girl's own three-year-old stepbrother, although it's hard to know for sure when the mum concerned is a prostitute," wrote Allison Pearson in the Daily Telegraph.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 04:34:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, that's one way to get unvarnished sex ed out there into the teen community...
by asdf on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 05:34:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, a billionaire needs a hobby I guess.


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sapere aude
by Number 6 on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 06:37:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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