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A critique of Haidt's article: `Why Working Class People Vote Conservative?'

by madeleine kando Mon Nov 11th, 2013 at 07:41:49 PM EST


In an article in the Guardian of June 5th, Jonathan Haidt gives an alternative answer to the question 'Why Do Working Class People Vote Conservative?'. According to Haidt, the generally accepted `duping hypothesis', which says that the Republican party has duped working class people into voting for them by putting the focus on cultural and moral issues rather than on economic issues, is not the real reason.

He points out that voting on a national level is more about a moral vision than about specific policies. That is true, but out of that moral vision flow the policies that a country adopts, so the usefulness of that statement is a bit doubtful.

Haidt goes on to say that most Americans don't want to live in a nation based primarily on caring. That's what families are for. Really? How can a family care for its children if the society doesn't provide specific policies that allow it to do so? If you cannot afford health insurance, you are pretty much up shit creek, no matter how much you care about your children.

Politics on a national level 'Is more about a moral vision that unifies a nation and calls it to greatness than it is about self-interest or specific policies. In most countries, the right tends to see that more clearly than the left.' That's it? No explanation, no facts to back up the statement? What about all those (left leaning) countries in Europe that have created the European Union? Is that not the ultimate vision of unification, not just for one nation, but many?

Haidt, in this article and elsewhere, compares the moral mind as being like the tongue, an organ that is sensitive to a variety of moral flavors. He identifies six moral flavors: care/harm, fairness/cheating, liberty/oppression, loyalty/betrayal, authority/subversion, and sanctity/degradation.

The first three, care, fairness and liberty are equally important to both conservatives and democrats. But on loyalty, authority and sanctity, Conservatives have a hands up, says Haidt. The immediate question that comes to mind is: loyalty to whom? As societies become more enlightened, the group to which loyalty is given expands. We are moving away from the tribal. Loyalty to a clan is no longer required or desirable. And is loyalty truly a basic ingredient of the moral cuisine, or is it more like an artificial flavor?

On the subject of authority, I would think that placing exceptional value in authority is not always a good thing. In fact, I might want to replace that ingredient on the moral palette with `freedom of thought' or `critical thinking'.

Sanctity/degradation: I agree that certain things are sacred, but they have acquired their sanctity status because they were considered true. So I would replace the sanctity flavor with the 'truth' flavor. Truth is far more morally valuable than sanctity, and much less prone to subjective interpretation. Sanctity is so intertwined with culture, whereas truth has the advantage of being cross-cultural.

Morality's ultimate purpose, if it's the right kind of morality, is to increase human well-being. If in-group loyalty, respect for authority and purity/sanctity fulfills that purpose, then they are legitimate candidates for the moral palette. If they don't, they should fall by the wayside.

Besides, who says that Haidt's analysis is correct? It is possible that fairness, liberty, loyalty, authority and sanctity are simply facets of a more general concern for harm/care (See Richard Harris' article 'A Response to Jonathan Haidt'). In that sense, if a conservative finds it very important to not blaspheme, is it truly because he finds it immoral or because he doesn't want to go to hell and be harmed?

In conclusion, if the working class is not duped by the Conservatives into voting against their own interest, then they are voting against it because of a misguided sense of morality. When a society moves away from allowing the majority of its citizens to fulfill their `capabilities', as Martha Nussbaum calls it, by removing social safety nets and allowing extreme inequality between rich and poor, then the morality of that society is misguided and should be revisited. I disagree with Haidt and believe that Democrats have a stronger sense of morality. That is why I am a Democrat.


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I don't disagree with Haidt that moral positions, or values, underlie supposedly rational political choices. The "left", broadly speaking, does tend to offer policies and programmes to the voter's rational mind, but voters don't make rational choices in politics any more than individual economic agents do in the marketplace.

But there are problems in Haidt's presentation. The "taste-bud" analogy is (like most analogies) weak. Essential tastes -- bitter, sweet, salt, sour -- are immuable, and people change little in their reaction to their taste buds' identification of one or the other of them. Lakoff, in grounding "frames" in brain structures, also offers methods of communication, based on brain plasticity, for weakening some frames and strengthening others. Suggesting it's all a question of taste, as Haidt does, implies that people are pretty much unchangingly the way they are.

In that case, why single out the working class only? Is the working class a monolithic bloc of lovers of certain "tastes", and if so, by what process of selection? Presumably Haidt speaks of the working class (whatever its definition) as voting against its interests. But, currently, it's the 1% that is imposing its interests on democracy. Do the 99% all have the same taste buds?

Haidt does cite the role of the conservative media (Daily Mail and Fox News are his examples). If the Overton Window is shifting rightwards so fast (and it is, in Europe as in North America), it is considerably due to a certain amount of "duping" on behalf of the plutocrats. Haidt is correct that the left should not just offer catalogues of policies. Economics is politics by other means, and politics is morals by other means. But (based on this article, I haven't read Haidt's book), I'd rather follow Lakoff on how to set about understanding that.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Nov 12th, 2013 at 03:19:06 AM EST
immuable = immutable :)
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Nov 13th, 2013 at 01:35:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well said.

I've spent some time with Haidt's academic paper (not his book) and I'd add that his "immutables" completely ignore the variations in culture around the world.

To use what you have said, Lakoff's work is an important (although not the only) explanation of how a "value" (or set of "values") can translate into many different "norms" or "actions."

The value of identifying "values" is that they don't change very quickly. The trouble is that the norms and actions that grow out of these values can change more easily and are prone to "tidal shifts" in society, and influence via the Overton Window.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Wed Nov 13th, 2013 at 05:36:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In addition, Haidt should be embarrassed because Malcolm Gladwell (of all people!) shows a more nuanced and more accurate understanding of the relationship people have with authority.

And the key factor here is legitimacy.

We can see this clearly in different strands of people in the same economic bracket in the USA. Some place their church as the most legitimate authority, others don't see the church as legitimate and invest in other authorities.

This is well reflected in voting patterns, but none of it suggests an immutable opinion about authority. (Because even if you test as believing in authority, the ability to choose which authority is legitimate undermines Haidt's philosophical construct.)

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Wed Nov 13th, 2013 at 05:40:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Does he deal with tribalism at all? Grief.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Nov 13th, 2013 at 05:47:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Tribalism is a 'moral vision.'

It's no coincidence all the right's themes are regressive and atavistic - strong in-group vs weak, shifty and terrifying out-group, obedience to alpha power, and support for whimsical limitless alpha privilege against any notion of accountability or social strategy.

Religion, with all that nonsense about an all-powerful whimsically caring deity (who nonetheless has smitey temper tantrums) is just the same story written in bad English. Or Arabic, or Hebrew, or various other languages, if that's your thing.

Oddly, mainstream economic values are almost identical, with the idea that you don't pay taxes, don't give money to others, and should be allowed to do whatever you like with your cash, no matter who it harms.

Basically it's baboon logic with mass media support.

I don't think it matters if Haidt is right or wrong. I think what matters is what the left should be doing differently to respond.

And if, as someone said a few days ago, there are surveys showing that most under-30s in the US are more convinced by socialism than capitalism, that may not be much.

In the UK, I think the Tories have already outstayed their welcome, and a lot of ordinary folk are shocked by their brutality this time around. The challenge is more to push Labour leftwards and cut through all the nonsense about cuts and deficits to take positive action.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Nov 13th, 2013 at 08:30:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, he claims to, but the problem is he largely defines it away by turning it into a tautology. The purpose of that is to collapse everything down to his preferred elements.
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Wed Nov 13th, 2013 at 06:38:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As a side note, that maybe explains a bit more about what I'm trying to say, Haidt goes through some reasonably informative (although not at all groundbreaking - which is another oddity in how much praise he has received) thinking about the notion of the sacred, and it's place in life.

However, he does not seem to acknowledge that groups can clash over "what is sacred" - i.e. they can both hold things sacred, but that can be in conflict. Rather he wants to concentrate on this artificial distinction between conservatives as "believers in something sacred" and liberals as "having no sense of the sacred."

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Wed Nov 13th, 2013 at 06:51:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, if he's a conservative then he may not be able to understand liberals' idols as being sacred.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Nov 14th, 2013 at 02:48:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe he should visit an atheist mega-church.

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by A swedish kind of death on Thu Nov 14th, 2013 at 02:05:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Welcome to ET, madeleine kando!
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Nov 12th, 2013 at 03:23:43 AM EST
Have you heard of Grave's value systems (or levels of psychological existence)? It has solid references to Maslow's pyramid of needs and advanced psychological coaching. It goes beyond just beliefs; the relevant NLP term is "value elicitation". A pop version of the theory is Spiral Dynamics.

There are 6, 8 or 12 core levels, depending on whom you ask. Briefly, the 6 basic levels are:

  1. Basic survival and immediate gratification values; reactive, instinctive behaviour. Think of a city ghetto.

  2. Tribal bonding values; respect for custom, group stability.

  3. Machiavellian alpha/authoritarian values. It is better to be a leader, godfather than lower in the group. Includes royals.

  4. Conservative/class society values. Seeking a meaning, justification. Religion is important.

  5. Personal welfare, autonomy values. Entrepreneurship, technology acceptance. Opportunistic, pragmatic.

  6. Progressive humanistic values. Most of ET readers must be here.

Note that odd-numbered value systems are individualistic, while even-numbered - social oriented. The enumerated sequence reflects well lifelong developments from birth. The higher number points to a larger required resource base rather than to a higher merit, one might say.

The next six levels 7-12 supposed to be "quantum jumps" of the basic six, respectively. But empirical evidence is negligible beyond level 8. Individuals in the "higher" value systems are aware of existence of the other levels, and therefore can adopt themselves when needed. Original versions of the next 2 levels:

  1. Individualistic, hedonistic values. Flexible self-interest, optimistic.

  2. Global environmental values. Can sacrifice own lifestyle and others. (Think ecoterrorism.)

There is surely much to discuss here. But relating to the diary subject: People make choices (and vote) according to their value systems. The thing is, our level 6 is not very much liked and well understood by others... In the last 2-3 decades, the progressive-humanistic values are taking quite a beating really. The few recent achievements (say, LGBT rights) are rather symbolic in relation to lost ground. Isn't it amazing how individualistic 5s and 7s got so co-operative against us? Apparently, the 6s were caught off-guard and lost most of influence, reputation and connection to (gradually less educated) masses. The 6s turned out to be poorly competitive in leadership, and not proactive enough for their values.
by das monde on Thu Nov 14th, 2013 at 03:40:53 PM EST
I will let you continue your academic discussion about this matter and will post my own observations in plain and simple language.
My humble opinion based on my 20 years of observation in democratic environment (remember I used to live most of my youth in undemocratic one) and not being able to compare things from a period before these 20 years in this same environment (let alone USA which is a totally different story to anything else in the world) ,  would be:
1.    Differences between left and right parties/policies (here I am talking about mostly two party system that we usually have in western democracies)are so blurred lately that looking at the policies one can hardly distinguish between them even when it comes to the rhetoric. And as   rhetoric goes those farther on left side (like Greens) while their  rhetoric is pretty  desirable for working class are at the same time not trusted or even taken seriously to be put in power , especially not as economic carers. They are considered as dreamers.
They are nice to have on a political field to put some mostly moral issues on agenda but not anything more than that. Regular people (working class) see them as kind of elitists who can afford to care about environment or gays while being totally incapable to fathom anything about wider economic picture let alone global big business strategies etc. At least that's how it is here in Australia in my opinion. From time to time they'll get to have some role in Senate but that's about it for next 100 years). Having those two parties (conservative coalition and Labour party), similar like in UK, with actual policies pretty much going to same direction (especially when it comes to economics), and working class is not actually voting on those policies.
2.    Moral issues while may be important when voting, they are mostly important to two far away ends: elite (rich and secured) and losers (red necks). Both ends do not have much to lose and can afford to look at moral issues as most important when voting.
3.    Working class really BELIEVES that it is voting based on their own interest but in a way that is not usually taken in to account. While classic working class has disappeared (or is quickly disappearing as we speak) in prior decades with death of manufacture in western civilisation, today working class is a class mostly made of  1.those working in service industry where not much of the education is asked for and they are pretty much marginalised because they are working  as casuals (so no unions there) or self-employed trades and 2.educated working class meaning those who are dreaming of one day being entrepreneurs or get rich trough investments of all sorts (so not really interested in unionism or social policies as such). Both groups being disappointed with leftists (especially in long lasting crises like this one we are experiencing at the moment) are duped   to believe that rightists are better economic managers and that they will bring more jobs ...or in today's language more "investors"(mostly foreign buyers of anything public left for sale including actual land). They do not care or are not able or willing to understand what long time consequences of this policy are. It's probably too much to ask from them as we can see (corrupted) politicians and intellectuals whose job it is to actually care about so called "national interest" not caring at all.
4.    Social policies are presented (similar like in USA) as made for those not capable of taking care of themselves (so they shouldn't blame government for it) or simply for those lazy bastards. As with rising unemployment (governments have a perfidy ways to hide it, counting anyone in part time and casual job as employed no matter how many hours of work they may have) more and more people are in need for those social payments and all governments left and right are cutting this expenditure. With not much difference there and as those payments are nowhere near enough for decent life it is pretty easy to dupe people with "great strategies" that right parties have to get rid of debt (first BIG lie) and to "put house in order" (being the order for the rich, but "hey you can be rich too" once...).
5.    I expect as more and more benefits and rights are taken from those still working (not to mention those who are not) and with less and less democracy actually in place, people will be able to see that "tsar is naked" but as what is left of unions is going to be destroyed (Thatcher's style) and with not actual political representation on the left spectre what exactly people can do?
Saying all this I do not pretend to understand USA political field at all ... for me collective mind of Americans is real mystery ...
Europe (even just west, let alone east which is totally different story due to historical circumstances) is such a mix of different political fields and philosophies in my understanding that it is hard to talk about it as one...
My opinion is based on my Australian experience. And bear in mind that Australia was once known as "workers' paradise"...


Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein
by vbo on Sat Nov 16th, 2013 at 08:17:28 AM EST
Let's cut to the chase: Haidt's just full of crap.  He's a silver-spoon preppy who's probably never met a working class person in his life other than his house staff.  People are economically duped, and the ones who have turned to religion are way out in Fundyland and will stick with the GOP forever due to abortion, evolution, etc.
by rifek on Sat Nov 16th, 2013 at 02:26:17 PM EST


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