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Weekend Open Thread

by Helen Fri Nov 21st, 2014 at 11:36:32 AM EST

One fine day I'm gonna be the one


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keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Nov 21st, 2014 at 02:09:41 PM EST
dooby-dooby, do wah wah.



She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Fri Nov 21st, 2014 at 02:17:49 PM EST
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by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Nov 21st, 2014 at 03:26:01 PM EST
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I'm past a very exhausting and stressful three weeks at the job, most of it out of the office. Towards the end of it, I spent half a day and attended a dinner with three German-speakers involved in the project.

Some of the discussion touched on themes popular on ET. One guy, representing a private company, told that an eventual further rise of the Eurosceptic AfD party in Germany would be a big concern for them because a re-introduction of the D-mark would kill the export industry. Another of them, who resides in France, then told that the Greeks would have been better off had they re-introduced the drachma when the crisis hit, and explained the other two how continuous devaluation worked for Italy before the Euro.

I could barely contain a laughter when the third guy told of his opinion that everyone should speak English as business language and learn no other secondary language, essentially re-capping Oettinger's infamous speech from before he became a Commissioner.

I was less humoured when, on the occasion of the space probe that landed on a comet, the first guy opined that space research is a waste of money to know stuff no one cares about, but I contained my fury and didn't show the amateur astronomer monthly in my bag. Fortunately the second guy came to my help and told that for a real waste of money, one should look at military hardware.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Nov 21st, 2014 at 02:44:56 PM EST
The space research discussion came after a passing mention of Christopher Nolan's new movie Interstellar, which I have now seen.

I found both the acting and the visuals spectacular, but for a film proud of having had a scientific adviser, by the end the tired old pseudo-scientific munbo-jumbo was too much for me: the talk of gravity 'being the only thing transcending time and space' and thus useful for information time travel, of love as a distinct force of Nature in a 5D world, stuff like that.

Still, the film is to be praised for the first half-way correct portrayal of a black hole (on its edges you should see what's behind it) and at least the entrance of a wormhole (no 2D surface but a sphere that's a looking glass on the other side) on the big screen. Interstellar is a return to 2001: Space Odyssey after Star Wars-inspired portrayals of space (and there are plenty of homages to Kubrick's classic).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Nov 21st, 2014 at 02:56:22 PM EST
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Speaking of films: at long last I watched the 1979 English gangster epic The Long Good Friday, which I wanted to see ever since ChrisCook posted a YouTube video with its ending.

This is the film in which Bob Hoskins (whom I only knew for his later, mostly comedic roles) shows the acting of his life as a gangster boss trying to become a legal businessman, and in which young Pierce Brosman left enough impression in a role with a single "Hi" as the only spoken word to establish his career in film, but Helen Mirren as the brain behind the brawn was just as impressive.

I read in advance that the film was prophetic in capturing the spirit of the coming Thatcher era. This included the very project Hoskins's gangster wanted to start to become a 'legal businessman': re-developing London's Docklands district (which happened in reality, on an even grander scale than imagined in the film). And here it got personal for me: as a child I visited London in 1980 (on a grand trip of Western Europe with my family) and we also took a walk across the Docklands, and I recognised where on the grand camera pan early in the film (shot just a year before we were there); now all of this is history.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Nov 21st, 2014 at 03:13:09 PM EST
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I, too, thought that was a fabulous film. Oddly enough, Hoskin's gangster's attitude of dismissal toward the issues posed by Brosnan's people reminded me strongly of the saying "you may not be interested in politics, but politics is interested in you."  His expression while riding in the car, when he realized how wrong he had been to ignore them, was perfect.

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher
by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Fri Nov 21st, 2014 at 05:37:07 PM EST
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It's many years since I saw the film but my memory suggests that Brosnan was making a power play and was using the sourcing of weapons from the IRA as a way to remove the leader.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sat Nov 22nd, 2014 at 09:01:37 AM EST
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Brosnan was only one member of a hitman team sent in revenge for IRA deaths. At the start of the film, a subordinate of the gangster boss takes some "revolutionary tax" to Northern Ireland, steals from it before handing it over, and then someone kills the IRA men just when they counted the money and noticed the missing amount; later on, it is told that the IRA concluded that the gangster boss was behind the killings. Later on the gangster boss thinks he dealt with the IRA problem by murdering the two men who ran the IRA's London representation.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sat Nov 22nd, 2014 at 10:54:13 AM EST
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I think it was a slightly different take: the gangster saw politics as a corrupt business which can be bought or threatened like any other business, and refused to listen to subordinates who warned him that the IRA are fanatics and thus in a different league. (In that, the film was again prophetic: the IRA did prove to be a greater menace in London, too, than the gangsters of the 1960s ever were.)

I read the film failed to find a distributor for one year due to the IRA angle.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sat Nov 22nd, 2014 at 10:58:41 AM EST
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I add that not long after the space research discussion, the three guests got into a twenty-minute discussion of divorce law, during which I wondered: who cares that deeply about such a boring subject!? (None of them were divorced and all of them were engineers, not lawyers.)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Nov 21st, 2014 at 03:21:21 PM EST
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They must have had divorce at the back of their minds...
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Nov 21st, 2014 at 03:28:58 PM EST
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It is a good starting point to complain that woman have all the advantages nowadays
by IM on Sun Nov 23rd, 2014 at 12:38:57 PM EST
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DoDo:
an eventual further rise of the Eurosceptic AfD party in Germany would be a big concern for them because a re-introduction of the D-mark would kill the export industry

Interesting. At least one German citizen perceives that the euro serves a German-export purpose.

I expect you've put this in the Newsroom, but:

AfD supporters lean towards xenophobia and fascism, research says | EurActiv

Germany's middle-class is shifting rightwards, according to a study by the Friedrich-Ebert Foundation, finding Eurosceptic AfD's followers in particular supporting right-wing extremist and chauvinist ways of thinking. EurActiv Germany reports.

Right-wing, extremist attitudes have lost considerable ground in Germany compared to previous years. But a study released on Thursday (20 November) by the Friedrich-Ebert Foundation (FES), reveals a troubling new trend.

Moderates in German society are increasingly likely to choose more subtle forms of misanthropic and racist thinking; right-wing ideas that are hiding in the mainstream and are suitable for casual dinner conversation.

Researchers are concerned about the shift. Isolated right-wing extremist and racist ideas are met with significant support.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Nov 21st, 2014 at 03:09:58 PM EST
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Yep, it's in the Newsroom.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Nov 21st, 2014 at 03:16:18 PM EST
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Forget about the DM. AfD is our UKIP and as UKIP is no longer primarily about europe, AfD is no longer either.

 

by IM on Sun Nov 23rd, 2014 at 12:25:04 PM EST
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What's up with the Rochester and Strood by-election?  Tories put an immense amount of effort, only to lose.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Fri Nov 21st, 2014 at 03:27:32 PM EST
Frances Coppola lives there.

(That is not a reason for UKIP to win, needless to add).

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Nov 21st, 2014 at 03:32:00 PM EST
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Yes, that's a great article.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Nov 21st, 2014 at 05:01:53 PM EST
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Now we know who is to blame.

Everything is alright again, then.  

by IM on Sun Nov 23rd, 2014 at 12:22:37 PM EST
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what do you mean? It was never gonna be any other way. Seriously.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Nov 21st, 2014 at 03:36:34 PM EST
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ukip have been having a lot of free and rather uncritical coverage, Farage comes cross s good bloke to have a laugh with in a pub. People have been convinced by the media that immigrants are the problem in areas where employment is under pressure (ie everywhere). So they vote ukip.

It requires a party willing to challenge that narrative. The greens are doing so. Labour could but aren't. Tories used to but aren't that sort of party anymore

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Nov 21st, 2014 at 03:48:41 PM EST
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Someone is taking the piss at the expense of the voters.

The idea that a braying clown like Farage could be taken seriously as an alternative protest vote party leader, instead of being laughed out of town while tied to the wrong end of a lame donkey with an unfortunate illness, is evidence of the contempt with which the fixers hold the electorate.

And - sadly - rightly so. If the voters had a braincell between them they'd see Farage for the ass he is, and the other tedious posturers for the Punch and Judy show that democracy has become.

Cameron even looks like Mr Punch. He beats up widows on benefits and throws babies out of prams.

Miliband looks like Gromit. Boris looks like his own idea of a Marvel superhero.

God only knows what Clegg looks like - except maybe the human embodiment of Cthulhu's PR manager.

How much more of a clue do we need that it's all for show?

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Nov 21st, 2014 at 09:12:52 PM EST
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Guardian - Owen Jones - Rochester byelection: beliefs of Ukip voters are soaked in leftwing populism

If the seemingly irresistible rise of Ukip teaches us anything, it is that sentiment all too often trumps reality and mere detail in politics. The party is a self-described "People's Army", now emboldened by a victory in Rochester and Strood it hopes will bring renewed momentum. Its voters are disproportionately working class.

Polls suggest they support renationalising rail and energy and want higher taxes for the rich and an increased minimum wage. According to research by the academic Matthew Goodwin, 81% of Ukip supporters believe "big business takes advantage of ordinary people"; a slim majority want the government to redistribute income; and they overwhelmingly agree "there is one law for the rich and one for the poor".

These are beliefs soaked in leftwing populism; and yet those who subscribe to them have flocked in droves to a party of the hard right. Ukip's leaders now defiantly, unapologetically present themselves as a people's insurgency against a contemptuous establishment.
[....]
Ukip are not associated with this baggage: perversely, given their leaders are really unabashed ultra-Thatcherites. But, again, it's all about sentiments: Ukip present an entirely fabricated chasm between them and the Tories. In both Clacton and Rochester, voters were frequently reported to be voting for Ukip because the incumbent Tory had done nothing for them.

To explain that last bit; in both cases, voters re-elected the incumbent, who had switched from Tory to ukip.

If only there was a popular party that could energise the sentiments in the early paragraphs.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sat Nov 22nd, 2014 at 08:58:59 AM EST
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So they voted for the toher guy, except it was actually the same guy?

That is some combination of low-information voters and cynical politicians. Material fit for Blackadder.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Sat Nov 22nd, 2014 at 06:25:18 PM EST
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Blackadder have already had their rotten election, not on youtube, but here.

Plot on wiki

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Nov 23rd, 2014 at 04:48:14 AM EST
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If he switched parties, is his public persona still the same?
by IM on Sun Nov 23rd, 2014 at 12:13:10 PM EST
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I think you'll find he started out as a slimy two-face bastard and hasn't changed one bit

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Nov 23rd, 2014 at 12:45:46 PM EST
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Went looking for SeriousPeople© analysis and found this:

Since a continuation of the current coalition is almost impossible because of Tory commitment to an EU referendum, which the Liberals oppose, Cameron may only be able to lead the next government if his party wins an outright majority or forms an alliance with the Scottish Nationalists, UK Independent Party and other fringe parties.

:blink:

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Sat Nov 22nd, 2014 at 11:54:11 AM EST
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Sturgeon doesn't seem to get the message.
THE SNP could team up with parties such as Plaid Cymru and the Greens at Westminster to build a new alliance in a bid to bring an end to the "austerity economics" pursued by the major parties there, Scotland's new First Minister said.

[...]

She stated: "My aim is that the SNP wins the general election in Scotland, and there is every prospect of a hung parliament at Westminster.

"The SNP would never act to put the Tories in power. In these circumstances, our constructive approach is that the SNP will seek common cause in a balanced parliament with progressive forces across the regions of England, Wales and Northern Ireland to rebalance the UK in political and economic terms.

by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Sun Nov 23rd, 2014 at 02:42:00 AM EST
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Except that Sturgeon is a member of the Scottish parliament, but is not at Westminster. Salmond is an MP and is likely to be the leader of an expanded and powerful SNP bloc at Westminster next year.

Sturgeon would not do a deal with Cameron, but Salmond is much more sympathetic to Tory messaging. So the internal politics of the SNP might be a bit fraught next May.

That said, everybody has seen what happened to the LibDems in a Tory coalition, so potential partners are going to be a lot more wary going in.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Nov 23rd, 2014 at 04:32:51 AM EST
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I doubt he'll get the chance; if he doesn't win an outright majority the party will replace him with Boris. At which point they'll be tempted to have another election in October.

Meanwhile, if Labour don't win, Miliband will lose the confidence of the party and will be asked to resign. He will limp though that October election, at which Labour will get a drubbing similar to 1983. But there's nobody around with the credibility to rebuild a left leaning party. And the world doesn't need another conservative party, even one led by Ed Balls.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Nov 23rd, 2014 at 04:39:38 AM EST
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Ukip should be taken seriously. But it may not like the experience | Andrew Rawnsley | Comment is free | The Observer

The party's myriad contradictions, splits and flip-flops have been treated as if they do not matter. Ukip has been for massive spending increases and for massive spending cuts; it has been for ultra-low tax for the rich and for higher taxes on luxury goods until it wasn't again; it has been for privatisation of the NHS and against privatisation of the NHS. During the byelection campaign, the Ukip position on whether they would forcibly repatriate migrants from the EU changed in the space of 24 hours. Immigration and withdrawal from the EU are supposed to be their specialist subjects and they can't hold to a consistent line even about that.

This has often escaped the fierce scrutiny that is applied to the traditional parties because Ukip was not seen as a party of potential power.

Well, now it could be. No one from the other parties laughs when Mr Farage conjectures that he could have 20 MPs in the next parliament and hold the balance of power. He won't be prime minister, but there are scenarios in which he could get to choose who is prime minister. With that potential power ought to come the responsibility to explain in detail what he might do with it.

The traditional parties and much of the media are still struggling with how to treat Ukip. Here's an idea. Subject them to the robust interrogation of policies and postures that is applied to every other party that aspires to decide how we are governed. Fewer pictures of Nigel down the pub, more questions about what he would do with power. Ukip wants to be taken seriously. So it should be. But as the Lib Dems have painfully discovered, ultimately there may be nothing more disappointing for Ukip than having its dream come true.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Nov 23rd, 2014 at 01:03:35 PM EST
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UKIP will tremble. Neither UKIP voters nor potential UKIP voters read the Observer.
by IM on Sun Nov 23rd, 2014 at 01:17:39 PM EST
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But, as in the US, the voters who tend to vote for the right wing tend neither to know nor care about the actual policies they're "approving", they just like the noise the candidate makes on "issues".

Also, right wingers tend to be more prone to a bit of hypocrisy, they don't actually have to be 100% consistent, so they have more flexibility to shoot from the hip.

But forget ukip; if we're talking about how the media allow themselves to be gulled by a good bloke with a sense of fun and jollity, how does Boris Johnston keep getting away with it? Unless I'm completely missing my guess, this is a man who will be the next leader of the Conservative party, and yet he has barely ever been subject to media scrutiny about his likely policies and sentiments. He blusters, jokes and dissembles, changing the subject with the slippery ease. Yet the opinions he has ventured, which are just as populist, yet even more authoritarian and corporate friendly as Farage's, are far more  shocking than anything Farage says because he is so much more likely to assume real power.

But when he is exposed, as happened on the BBC once, nothing came of it. If anything his popularity seemed to rise.



keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Nov 23rd, 2014 at 01:39:10 PM EST
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Subject [UKIP] to the robust interrogation of policies and postures that is applied to every other party that aspires to decide how we are governed.

I needed a hearty laugh.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Sun Nov 23rd, 2014 at 01:40:06 PM EST
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