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Poll: Is Brexit a good thing?

by Frank Schnittger Wed Nov 27th, 2019 at 11:33:18 AM EST

Accepting the fact that most Brits aren't listening and couldn't care less what we think, what are our collective thoughts on Brexit at this stage?

Poll below the fold:


Poll
Is Brexit a good thing?
. It's happening anyway, so just get on with it - whatever "it" is 9%
. It can still be stopped, so long as enough people vote against Boris, which is a good thing in itself 27%
. Brexit could be quite a good thing for the EU, removing an obstructive UK from membership, and enabling the EU to move on to more pressing reforms 36%
. Brexit will enable Scottish independence and Irish re-unification and force the EU to develop its own global financial services centres... 9%
. England is in historic decline in any case, and it is better it doesn't drag the EU down with it 0%
. Brexit will be a cautionary tale to any other nationalist movements contemplating exiting the EU and thus enhance EU cohesion and solidarity 0%
. Whatever - it won't make much difference to the lives of most ordinary citizens in the UK or EU anyway... 0%
. Other: Please explain in comments 18%

Votes: 11
Results | Other Polls
Display:


Global Warming - distance between America and Europe is steadily increasing.
by Oui on Wed Nov 27th, 2019 at 06:51:13 PM EST
Following this drama these many years I've come to the considered opinion that I have no fucking idea what is going to happen. I have developed a certain faith however that anything that might qualify as good and sensible has a low probability of occurring.
by Andhakari on Thu Nov 28th, 2019 at 09:29:48 AM EST
to see you being so cynical... what happened to all your youthful optimism and exuberance, your reforming or revolutionary zeal? Are we not blogging to change the world for the better?

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Nov 28th, 2019 at 11:25:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Lol
by Andhakari on Thu Nov 28th, 2019 at 12:03:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We might be blogging just to document the shit splattering off the fanblades.

Things are going to slide, slide in all directions
Won't be nothing, nothing you can measure anymore
L. Cohen
by john_evans (john(dot)evans(dot)et(at)gmail(dot)com) on Thu Nov 28th, 2019 at 07:34:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nah - couldn't be bothered doing that, you'd get showered in the stuff if you got too close. More fun pointing out alternatives that could actually solve some problems - even if no-one is listening...

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Nov 28th, 2019 at 08:13:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
(please insert smiley of respect and confusion here)

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Ana´s Nin
by Crazy Horse on Fri Nov 29th, 2019 at 12:20:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Brexit is just far-right idpol at this point. No form of withdrawal from the EU can ever truly be BREXIT
And for well-off libs it serves the same function as Trump in the US. All prior sins are immaterial in the face of the orange Hitler. Ignore the carpet of homeless you are walking on.
by generic on Thu Nov 28th, 2019 at 12:31:26 PM EST
2 is true, but I'm beginning to fear it's a low probability

3 is self-evidently true. The UK has always been the US' trojan horse to undermine the EU from within. Although I think that the BundesBank has been far more effective at that particular mission.

4 is probably a net benefit, but if you thought the Irish border situation was fraught, then the Scottish one is a nightmare. A completely new financial system would be great, but simply re-locating the City to Frankfurt doesn't help in any way whatsoever.

5 is true. The constant re-election conservative governments i destroying us.

6 is N/A. Even Hungary knows it's better off inside. But the dominance of the Bundesbank will destroy it eventually

7 is untrue. The people of the UK will suffer terribly.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Nov 28th, 2019 at 08:18:37 PM EST



Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Thu Nov 28th, 2019 at 08:51:10 PM EST
Because the obvious solution - a customs border down the Irish sea - was eventually arrived at, destroying the fiction that the English actually cared about retaining N. Ireland as an integral part of the UK. Theresa May was possibly a genuine Unionist, Boris not at all, and both clung to that position to maintain DUP support. Once the DUP could no longer provide pivotal support they were dropped like a hot potato - as I always said they would be.

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Nov 28th, 2019 at 11:28:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Being a silver lining kinda guy, part of me cheered Brexit at the beginning as I thought it might offer the EU the spanking it needed to reform. At the time it looked as if Italexit was as - if not more - likely to be first to bust out of the asylum.
I also was conscious of how long and expertly the UK had trolled the EU for years while allowing - or instumentalising - the press to paint such a bleak picture of the EU - thus paving the way for such intellectual luminaries as Nigel Farage to exert their hold on public opinion.
Part of me also thought the UK needed to be taken down a peg or three and after Brexit would have to accept its imperial decline and start getting more real wth the world. Being back to the wall might be just the ticket to a nation reinventing itself after the kind of reality check Brexit would be.
So it was all hypothetical... I never really thought the referendum would win.
When they did, I never really believed they would be able to hammer out such complex legislation with the armies of lawyers needed and besides, it was consultative not binding so I figured the sheer lumpiness of tryng to figure a realistically practical way to get 'er done would stymie it in its tracks.
Especially with such a slim majority...
Apart from on FB I never dialogued with a hardcore Brexiteer, and after years on ET I had no illusions about the EU being heaven on earth politically/economically so it was a bit 'a pox on both their houses' and part 'frying pan or fire' as it's a distraction from the bigger geo-political picture involving Russia, China, the USA, World bank, IMF, goldbugs, the repercussions of austerity after the financial crashes of 2007-8 and 2012, the global financialisation of politics and the slide towards fascism seen almost everywhere as eternal-growth capitalism became cantilevered to the point of imminent worldwide collapse (along with the ecology needed to support the conceit). Those were the real problems, not this bureaucratic supranational power-bloc reapolitik squabble.
Now after a few years of Teresa May and Boris Johnson I thin the Tories couldn't exit gracefully from a paper bag, let alone the EU!
Still, deep in my gut I never believed it would happen,  it just is so off-the-wall nuts.
Still feel that way, and will till the day it happens probably.
If it does...
I guess one has to step back to the point where it objectively looks like ex-empires getting their overdue just deserts, or a collection of hilariously demented lunatics trying to out-ridicule each other for our entertainent.

Politics, showbiz for ugly people ~ F. Zappa

Meanwhile Grenfell... grotesque, hideous!

Brexit will be worth it only if it buries the myth that Etonians deserve to rule by divine grace, and the Tory party ends up 6 feet under, for once and for all.

Go Jezza ;)


'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Nov 29th, 2019 at 08:04:15 AM EST
Almost poetic Melo! Where are your diaries? I actually thought there was a fair chance the Brexit party could bury the Conservatives - and Brexit - by splitting the Brexit vote. Turns out the Lib Dems were even more stupid and driven by blind hatred of Corbyn, and so a second referendum never had a chance.

But Farage committed hara-kiri - or at least did the bidding of his financial masters - and it is the Remain vote which is split and Boris set fair to ride triumphant into the sunlit uplands of Brexit.

For all the criticism he has gotten, I still think Corbyn did all he could to keep both Remainers and Leavers within the Labour party tent and his offer to hold a second referendum while remaining personally neutral is statesmanlike and a viable way out of the crisis with no one losing face.

But for whatever reason the British people seem to be buying all the anti-Corbyn bile as if the personality and charisma of the PM mattered all that much in the context of the gravity of the crisis the UK will be facing when Boris crashes out without a comprehensive FTA.

The reduction of politics to a televisual beauty contest and the sheer stupidity of people who are bearing the brunt of Conservative led austerity and privatisation voting for Boris beggars belief.

It will be very hard for me to muster sympathy for the British people if they vote for Boris and when it then all comes crashing down. It's not as if they weren't warned and didn't know that Boris is a lying, cheating bastard whom no one of any integrity would have dealings with.

And still it seems we are in for another few years of pommy moaning about the EU not being fair to them when they discover that nothing outside the EU comes for free.

The only benefit for most of the EU will be that they won't have to listen any more (but also won't have any excuses for not putting their own houses in order).

In Ireland the EU/UK dynamic will have another few years to play out - re-cast as a nationalist/unionist divide - and with an increasingly beleaguered and desperate DUP thrashing about for victims to blame.

But the die has been cast. Unionism's days in Ireland are numbered. It is just a matter of how gracefully the process is managed. Brexit was the last act of "those whom the Gods seek to destroy, they first make mad".

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Nov 29th, 2019 at 11:40:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In both the US and UK, large swathes of the citizenry have maintained a deliberate ignorance about the Ueberklass's determination to stand on top of all the rest of us to avoid drowning, and the results are strewn all around us.
by rifek on Sat Nov 30th, 2019 at 04:21:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I am surprised Corbyn didn't defend himself better at the debate when being accused of being duplicitous about which side he would campaign for. All he had to say was a firm:

 "It's not about me Boris. My personal opinion is my own and I have every right to cross that brdge if/when I come to it after further thought, study, debate and counsel.  I am not Prime Minister and am not running a Brexit campaign, as you are reduced to doing since no-one believes a jot of what you say with your promises about the NHS after what you plastered on the side of buses before the referendum and every other blathering word out of your lying, disingenuous mouth is Brexit. I respect the people's vote but they were un- and misinformed as to the consequences and if they vote again in a second referendum to leave, then it'd be my duty as PM to renegotiate a better Brexit deal, and have it supported by Parliament after due, unhurried debate, a negotiation with a new, improved EU at which I wll have a decided advantage over your prior position because I have excluded my own feelngs and maintained, professional, gentlemanly discretion about them while concentrating on the greater good of the many rather than my own bias and possibly stll incomplete understanding of this Tory-spawned nightmare into which your idiot ilk have recklessly, callously plunged us and future generations. Those generations who will bear the greatest burden for your folly and many more of whom are eligible to vote now on something of such importance to them.
You on the hand have zero credibility or ideas, and your whole political existence rests on one crumbling pillar, that of hard-crashing out of the EU while your chortling chums cash out on the sterling dive and buy up businesses on the cheap wth their ill-gotten gains."

Off-mike: "Wanker"

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Dec 1st, 2019 at 10:22:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think a shorter: "It's for the people to decide when they have all the hard evidence and a firm proposal on the table - and it will be for me to implement their decision one way or the other when they have made their choice. I am happy to abide with their decision whichever way it goes, but I do think they they deserve a chance to make a considered choice now we have had several years of debate on the issue and when we have an good Withdrawal Agreement and proposed future relation ship deal on the table." would be more effective on TV!

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Dec 2nd, 2019 at 02:04:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Dear citizens of the UK,

sometimes countries go crazy. It happens. We have more than enough experience of that over here. Sometimes countries go down. Ditto. Just as your union is wobbling, we know that our European Union is not eternal, either. It's sad but that's life.

Drink a pint, have a laugh!

I believe 5 is correct but of course it's gonna drag the EU down too.

Schengen is toast!

by epochepoque on Fri Nov 29th, 2019 at 01:05:19 PM EST
"gonna drag the EU down too": I don't know about that.

Apart from overstated UK budget rebates, contribution to EU trade balance with either EU or ROW, and overstated economic impact within UK attributable only to BREXIT jingoism, I wonder. I wonder, because GINI is one of those topics that have left the room for the election against HRM BoJo or the elusive 2nd referendum.

Love or detest GINI: GB is not the "engine" of EU prosperity, however you care to measure that. You are familiar with GINI figures, and Eurostat figures by nation-state have been nearly level for some decades. Which might or might not be and endorsement of endemic poverty across Europe, induced by "neoliberal" or "neocon" national parliaments' policies. It is however an indictment of grossly disproportionate income inequality--matching the most grossly overvalued currency on the planet--hoarded in Britain for generations. That is, UK will secede with "wealth" to be squandered by its gov, not EU gov and EU27.
The Scale of Economic Inequality in the UK

The UK has a wealth GINI coefficient of 73.2%.
The most compelling argument to present "commoners" in the UK is the real, humantiarian one which hardly anyone acknowledges: The EU membership mitigates abject poverty in the UK.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Fri Nov 29th, 2019 at 08:06:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]


Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Fri Nov 29th, 2019 at 08:13:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The world bank lists UK GINI index at 34.1, and the CIA factbook as 32.4. Are we talking about different things?

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Sat Nov 30th, 2019 at 10:49:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Possibly the difference is between accumulated wealth and income.

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Sat Nov 30th, 2019 at 10:52:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes. wealth GINI, income GINI

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Sun Dec 1st, 2019 at 04:20:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Gap between rich and poor grows alongside rise in UK's total wealth
"the wealth ladder": Where is planted and what does it lean on?

The incorrect answer is RE. RE is a store of value, money. Wealth is credit.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Fri Dec 6th, 2019 at 05:07:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Seems like we're getting our own mini revolution in Germany. Olaf Scholz, the establishment candidate in the race for party chair of the SPD, lost against a pair of virtual nobodies from the party left, Saskia Esken and Norbert Walter-Borjans. The latter is known for aggressively pursuing tax evaders by acquiring leaked documents from Switzerland when he was a finance minister.

They plan to renegotiate the coalition agreement with an eye towards exiting the government. It's not fully Corbynesque but a similar direction of travel.

Schengen is toast!

by epochepoque on Sun Dec 1st, 2019 at 09:50:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So what is the likely shape of the next German government if the SPD move to the left, and the CDU to the right to counter AfD gains?

And what are the implications for German foreign, European, and Brexit policies?

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Sun Dec 1st, 2019 at 10:57:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
CDU don't have to move right (much or yet). They're cozy in the center but programmatically they're quite dried out inside. If the current numbers add up CDU-Green will have a majority.

Foreign policy: new CDU chief wants to be more 'active' - no tools to back it up.

European policy: the fuck anybody knows. Merkel would have to be gone for a long time and people would have wake up and start to learn to think for themselves again.

Brexit policy: no change.

Schengen is toast!

by epochepoque on Sun Dec 1st, 2019 at 12:56:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
One can hope, but I imagine you'd need a similiar public and acrimonious break with the old leadership to pull up from the death spiral.
by generic on Sun Dec 1st, 2019 at 03:32:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
to whom it may concern, running time 00:58:10 versus 48 years



Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Fri Nov 29th, 2019 at 05:10:54 PM EST
We also need to understand that the young person taking passionately about Corbyn and embracing his brand of social justice does not represent an entire generation. At a shopping parade in the Wolverhampton neighbourhood of Penn I met two sparky, loquacious twentysomethings whose jobs pay less than £9 an hour: he a duty manager at a town-centre hotel, she a care assistant. When I asked them whether they had thought of joining a trade union, they bluntly told me they did not know what that term meant. Neither did they have any sense of what the Labour party stands for. After talking to them, I sat in the car and listened to Len McCluskey imploring the party's lost voters to "come home". What does that even mean any more?

The Tories may appal us, but Labour has been losing the plot for a long, long time.

Things are going to slide, slide in all directions
Won't be nothing, nothing you can measure anymore
L. Cohen

by john_evans (john(dot)evans(dot)et(at)gmail(dot)com) on Mon Dec 2nd, 2019 at 10:08:45 AM EST
In fairness, "Labour losing the plot" is as much a consequence of a transformation in the economy in the post Thatcher years as it is a result of political incompetence.

Junior hotel managers may be badly paid, but they think of themselves as having a posh job with prospects. Care assistants may be at the bottom of the status hierarchy,  but they tend to regard themselves as caring people, working for individual clients, often in their homes, and don't really identify themselves as part of a cohesive occupational grouping.

Union membership in these and similar service orientated occupational groups has always been low, but their numbers have grown hugely, with the result that union membership as a proportion of the working population has declined precipitously.

Unions work best where there are large groups of people performing similar work in the same location or company. This sort of factory production environment has been decimated by out-sourcing, automation and de-industrialisation.

In Ireland, and I suspect in the UK, union membership is now largely confined to the public service, and to a few larger companies employing larger numbers. US companies often pay better but do not recognise unions at all.

This has led to a perception that Unions now largely work for better paid workers in more secure employments who have better benefits to begin with - and don't represent the unemployed or more precariously employed majority.

Although the working class rhetoric and accents often remain, the reality is that it is the middle class professions which are often the most militant and well organised and unions are seen by many outside these groups as entrenching the privileges of the few in sheltered employments.

Rapidly changing work environments do not lend themselves to the staples of union organisation:- stable job descriptions, comparative job grading schemes, structured pay and benefit scales, and rigid negotiating categories. Everything is being individualised to prevent worker solidarity creating a threat to management bargaining power.

Individual workers are bought off by management if they are seen as having better than average ability and work ethic. Companies deliberately automate or outsource work which has been a focus of union activity. Militants are ostracised and marginalised.

It's every man for themselves now, and even the women are betraying their sisters... Politics in this environment, becomes less about class solidarity and more about looking after yourself: Precisely the sort of individual "meritocracy" that conservative parties say they promote. Merit being defined as playing the game within the rules set by others and not any objective measure of contribution or effort.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Dec 3rd, 2019 at 01:35:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In fairness, "Labour losing the plot" is as much a consequence of a transformation in the economy in the post Thatcher years as it is a result of political incompetence.

Political competence would have been understanding the transformation in the economy and its social consequences, which you rightly describe, and finding non-Blairite language and policies to address them.

The base problem is the destruction of the organized industrial working class, partly by bare-fanged Thatcherian class hatred, but mostly by the fact that global capital found itself a new, cheaper unorganized body of industrial workers in Asia, and threw the Western lot on the tip. With the resulting poverty, social dislocation, atomisation, uberisation, that we can observe.

Labour, like other parties on the left (Dems, French PS, for example) have spent decades split between pro-capitalist lite "centrists" (Clinton Schroeder Blair) and a dug-in left wing that still seems to be dreaming of half-a-century ago. These "parties of government" currently have no clearly discernible line that addresses problems and speaks to voters. Which is what I mean by "losing the plot".

All the more in that the billionaire's lackeys on the other side have an extremely efficient plot taken from Bannon's playbook.

Things are going to slide, slide in all directions
Won't be nothing, nothing you can measure anymore
L. Cohen

by john_evans (john(dot)evans(dot)et(at)gmail(dot)com) on Tue Dec 3rd, 2019 at 09:15:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And partly by managing to conflate and blur the interests of the middle class and the working class.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Dec 3rd, 2019 at 12:15:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's a telling description of Blur-ite politics.

Things are going to slide, slide in all directions
Won't be nothing, nothing you can measure anymore
L. Cohen
by john_evans (john(dot)evans(dot)et(at)gmail(dot)com) on Tue Dec 3rd, 2019 at 12:40:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Who else will defend "the middle-class"?

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Tue Dec 3rd, 2019 at 12:58:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm more concerned with who will defend the poor, shattered remnants of the working class.

Things are going to slide, slide in all directions
Won't be nothing, nothing you can measure anymore
L. Cohen
by john_evans (john(dot)evans(dot)et(at)gmail(dot)com) on Tue Dec 3rd, 2019 at 01:08:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There are only three plots for all the stories ever created by people: death, birth, union. I might have mentioned more than once.

Corbyn's not a very good story teller. Then again, he has neither an particularly attentive audience nor fresh material. HRM BoJo is not a good story teller. Neither is any other "leader" pro temp selected by "elites" of "nations", formerly known as the one's with the nu-klear capability, formerly known as the one's with the guns, formerly known as "gods".

See how I reveal recurring "narratives" of death delivered from on high? Compelling, no? by comparison to the manifest reality of union: Nadie es libre.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Tue Dec 3rd, 2019 at 01:19:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There are only three plots for all the stories ever created by people: death, birth, union

No wonder that progressive politicians, activists do not get it. They are nicely quick to offer solutions to apparent problems, but... the masses want really something else. They would not like to tell exactly what.

The kumbaya mythology of some social-economic perpetum mobile is not deeply believable in this limited world. Too bad if only terrible reactionary populists perform for relatable monomyths. Beliefs in transformative heroes, transcendent trials, magic helpers, ultimate boons may be not rational, but they are perhaps archetypally wise.

by das monde on Tue Dec 3rd, 2019 at 03:07:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Where's muh sheila na gig MEMEEEEEEEE

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Tue Dec 3rd, 2019 at 04:59:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Read how confused Anglo-mericans are. I can easily spot the US Americans. The first clue is ascribing ethnic homogeneity to industrial solidarity. The second is they've no idea what Finland produces except Nokia phones, maybe. For them a brand "boycott" and a 24-hr "general strike" are identical acts of, oh, inconveniences--they wouldn't know Taft-Hartley if you beat a Google "engineer" about the head with a rolled up copy, and the last, most devastating demo was (1872) past out of mind generations ago.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Wed Dec 4th, 2019 at 03:31:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Anglo-mericans are not married to a welfare state - have no clue.
by das monde on Wed Dec 4th, 2019 at 10:01:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
APsplainin | Paris police arrest scores amid strike over pension reform
"I had no idea about the strike happening, and I was waiting for two hours in the airport for the train to arrive, and it didn't arrive," said vacationer Ian Crossen, from New York. "I feel a little bit frustrated. And I've spent a lot of money. I've spent money I didn't need to, apparently."


Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Thu Dec 5th, 2019 at 11:43:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We got a winner here.
by Bernard on Fri Dec 6th, 2019 at 08:48:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
France pension reform strikes: Transport chaos on day 2, D3 plans for gridlock
"'Everybody in the street on Tuesday, December 10, for a new day... of strikes, actions and protests,' said Catherine Perret, senior member of the hardline CGT union, the nation's biggest public sector union."

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Sat Dec 7th, 2019 at 12:04:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Corbyn lurching back into lane, gets a twitterassist.



Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Tue Dec 3rd, 2019 at 08:25:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
more rational self-interested actors who eventually satisfy their unique preferences, which is Nash's kind of "quantum" theorem more or less applied to human beans in a barrel with one slot, possibly two.

Assume barrel, because measurement. Assume measurement, because objectivity. Assume objectivity, because x.

archived
DeRp

Our country needs us to be more ambitious right now, and we are rising to that challenge. This choice is about the future of our country for GENERATIONS to come. It is not about the red team or the blue team, because on this issue they merge into one.
< wipes tears >


Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Tue Dec 3rd, 2019 at 12:55:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I voted for number 1 because Brexit is a clear example of what you get with populist politics, and populist politics has been sprouting up all over the place, and it needs to be confronted. Assuming that it is going to be a catastrophe, perhaps Brexit will serve as a stark reminder of how things can get out of hand, and thus steer things generally away from this sort of thinking. Maybe.

Too bad for the English, but they voted for it. Sort of.

by asdf on Tue Dec 3rd, 2019 at 12:36:36 AM EST
by generic on Tue Dec 3rd, 2019 at 12:25:11 PM EST
Nick Cohen often leaves me wondering.

Things are going to slide, slide in all directions
Won't be nothing, nothing you can measure anymore
L. Cohen
by john_evans (john(dot)evans(dot)et(at)gmail(dot)com) on Tue Dec 3rd, 2019 at 01:11:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
hmmmmmmmm ....

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Tue Dec 3rd, 2019 at 05:42:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by generic on Tue Dec 3rd, 2019 at 06:52:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, no, no.
NOTHING can improve upon the wisdom of
Who has David Cameron been talking to?

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Tue Dec 3rd, 2019 at 07:27:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

cleverly concealed as AD HOMIMEN


Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Tue Dec 3rd, 2019 at 06:22:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Don't they already do this? All about what a great thing the Empire on which the sun never rose was and all the rest of it
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Tue Dec 3rd, 2019 at 06:48:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes, I'd be astonished that any Brit gives a shit about Brisith colonial history unless the prices of spices, teas, coffee, banana republics, and citrus fruits SURGES.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Tue Dec 3rd, 2019 at 07:17:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

by generic on Thu Dec 5th, 2019 at 01:06:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is this his response to claims that he is an antisemite.
Robin Hood is well known as a defender of oppressed populations. But one aspect of his story that has mostly been lost to time, however, is his role as protector of Jews, who figured prominently in ballads and dramatic texts that began appearing in 15th- and 16th-century England. Aside from his fundamental mission of tikkun olam -- repairing the world via a forced redistribution of wealth, aka stealing from the rich and giving to the poor -- Robin Hood was originally portrayed as a champion of all the oppressed, whether they be peasants, Muslims, disinherited kings, scorned Crusaders, anti-clerics or Jews.
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Thu Dec 5th, 2019 at 01:32:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by Bernard on Thu Dec 5th, 2019 at 09:25:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Malachi O'Doherty: The interwoven cultural strands tying Britain to Ireland cannot, and will not, be undone by Brexit
It was often when I was abroad that I felt more Irish, though, strangely, the further I went, the more the concepts of Britishness and Irishness blended into each other. In India, it is simpler sometimes to agree that you are English than take the trouble to explain.
< wipes tears >

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Tue Dec 3rd, 2019 at 10:02:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nick Cohen is just a blairite prick who has been floundering for relevance ever since the invasions of Iraq and Lybia fell into complete debacles.

He's one of those disgusting centrists who think there is a meaningful difference between "Muscular Liberalism" and Neu-Colonialism/Neo-Conervatism. Anybody who critiques his idiocies is branded a marxist/leninist/trotskyist.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Dec 4th, 2019 at 09:33:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
He knows all about 'rigging' referenda: Boris Johnson says Labour would 'rig' second Brexit referendum to make sure Remain would win.

Both Boris Johnson and Sajid Javid refuse to rule out possibility of no-deal Brexit ...

Boris Johnson likens US-NHS talks to "Photos of UFOs" as Tories tax cuts dismissed as "pure fantasy"



Global Warming - distance between America and Europe is steadily increasing.
by Oui on Thu Dec 5th, 2019 at 06:05:58 PM EST
< wipes tears >
It does tend to AMPLIFY ordinary FUs.

Eddie Stobart transport firm teeters on brink of collapse

The vote will pit William Stobart, the third son of the company's founder, against his childhood friend and former brother-in-law, Andrew Tinkler.
a scandal. o, lordy. rich chi'ren play with credit. unexpectedly.
It is also struggling with £200m worth of debt. However, ["]accounting problems["] revealed in August mean the financial situation could be much worse.
"bandit capitalism", as distinct from "crony capitalism" and "finance capitalism" and "venture capitalism" and "disaster" capitalism. wow. That's new.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Fri Dec 6th, 2019 at 04:52:38 PM EST
yea, the UK is still just a theme park playground for the super-rich.

All the rest of the noise is how to divvy up the crumbs from their table.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Dec 6th, 2019 at 08:10:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Tories get back in with a majority, you can go weep for the crumbs.

Things are going to slide, slide in all directions
Won't be nothing, nothing you can measure anymore
L. Cohen
by john_evans (john(dot)evans(dot)et(at)gmail(dot)com) on Sat Dec 7th, 2019 at 12:20:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]


Global Warming - distance between America and Europe is steadily increasing.
by Oui on Fri Dec 6th, 2019 at 04:56:10 PM EST
EU distances itself from Johnson's timetable for post-Brexit deal

Leaked communiqué signals caution over PM's 11-month timeframe for negotiations

Key words: Election News - Tory lies

Global Warming - distance between America and Europe is steadily increasing.

by Oui on Fri Dec 6th, 2019 at 05:03:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
OH! another euphemism for a trade agreement, formerly known as "future partnership."

## Mental disorder is a communicable disease.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Fri Dec 6th, 2019 at 05:58:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
NI Protocol: Unfettered access to the UKIM, 15 pp, courtesy of politico.eu
There will be "red tape", missy. Just you watch!

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Fri Dec 6th, 2019 at 06:00:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Healthcare crisis: [Bastid Queen] defends DUP decision to end pay parity, austerity wut done it
Her comments come as healthcare workers across Northern Ireland take industrial action in a dispute over pay and staffing levels, demanding to be paid the same as their colleagues in the rest of the UK. Trade union Unison accused politicians of not being willing to share power, but being willing to share blame.
[...]
For years healthcare workers across the UK were paid equally. In late 2014, however, this was ended by the then Health Minister, Jim Wells of the DUP, who stated he had to "exercise a degree of restraint" over pay.
[...]
In January 2016, DUP Health Minister Simon Hamilton was involved in a dispute with nurses after he offered them a one-off pay increase of 1%. Nurses argued the increase should be added to salaries, as was the case in the rest of the UK.

[INCONTINENCE ALERT]

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Fri Dec 6th, 2019 at 07:36:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Alexandra Hall Hall

Top British diplomat in Washington DC quits in a tirade ...

British diplomat in US resigns, saying she can't 'peddle half-truths' on Brexit

Global Warming - distance between America and Europe is steadily increasing.

by Oui on Fri Dec 6th, 2019 at 06:59:48 PM EST


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