World Wide Electricity Super-grid

by Frank Schnittger Fri Jan 21st, 2022 at 12:32:48 PM EST

There has been much discussion of our electricity deficit and of the need to go nuclear to address the intermittency of wind and solar energy. However, fourth generation nuclear reactors, even if they prove to be safe and viable, won't be with us for many years, so we need to start now on a more immediate solution.

The intermittency of wind and solar can be addressed by building a global Super-grid of ultra-high voltage electricity "pipelines" which can move electricity from areas of surplus - like the Sahara - to areas of deficit, like Europe, and from areas in daytime - for example, the Middle East - when night-time means there is no solar in Europe.

Weather systems are up to a thousand miles wide with a wind "dead zone" up to several hundred miles wide at their centre. Again, the solution is a Super grid which can transmit electricity from areas where wind is blowing to where it is not thus compensating for the "dead zone" as it passes over a highly populated area.

Electricity transmission losses are low at very high voltages, so distance is not a technical problem. The capital costs, on the other hand, are huge and require an integrated response at a European level. But in the 1980's who would have believed the world wide web would connect every corner of the globe only thirty years later?

A similarly visionary approach is needed for a global electricity super-grid. Once off inter-connectors between national electricity systems are proliferating around Europe but are not of a sufficient scale and capacity to adequately address the problem. It's time for the EU to step up and take the lead with a continent-wide integrated approach.

Discuss!

World Wide Electricity Super-grid | 44 comments (44 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (none / 1)

We did a major retrofit on my family home which included:

Wrapping the entire building with 100 mm insulation boards
Removing solid fuel stove and sealing chimney
Installing underfloor heating where possible.
Replacing all windows with triple glazing
Replacing oil burning heating system with electric air based heat pump
Installing heat exchanger ventilation and air filtration system
Including the basement in the development with internal as opposed to external insulation boards
Ensuring the entire building was airtight.
Installing 18 solar panels and large battery pack

Expensive, but fortunately, there was a large government grant available.

Benefits:

The house now has an A1 energy rating, making it one of the most energy efficient older houses in the country
Electricity bills have increased marginally, but there is massive savings on oil and solid fuel
The entire house is a comfortable 19 degrees in winter, making the entire house usable at all times, where previously only some rooms were heated.
The basement is now included in the living area of the house enabling my daughter, son-in-love and grand-daughter to move in and providing workspaces for both son and daughter.
Previous damp and mould problems eliminated
A good conscience about not burning carbon!

The plan is to replace our current hybrid car when it reaches the end of its lifespan with a fully electric vehicle which can be charged from the solar panels and also act as an extra battery for the house.

However most solutions to reducing carbon burning require electricity, so we have to think about how to increase sustainable electricity production way above current levels.

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by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Jan 21st, 2022 at 01:02:59 PM EST

Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (none / 1)

You are talking about cool transport I suppose.

Superconductors transport electrical energy without any electrical resistance and thus without losses. In addition, superconductors are able to transport much more energy than conventional copper or aluminium conductors of the same crosssection.

Vision^(R) Electric Super Conductors

The biggest consumers of electricity are computer data centers, steel and aluminium mills, green houses and in the sustainable future cars. The full infrastructure needs to be considered in the planning. Somehow I believe the equatorial nations have an edge on us in the Nordic region. Europe depending on Africa and the Arab States .... again!

Unity in Europe would be a starter ... with an unfolding Brexit and Ukraine as replacement ... it ain't getting easier ... goal 2050?

'Sapere aude'

by Oui (Oui) on Fri Jan 21st, 2022 at 01:40:34 PM EST

Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (none / 0)

Obviously the ultra high voltage pipelines will be insulated, but I don't know if the technology exists or is capable of being developed in the near future to cool undersea cables to the low temperatures (-248°C) required to achieve superconductivity. I suspect not. But research to achieve better conductivity at higher temperatures should be prioritised.

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by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Jan 21st, 2022 at 08:32:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (none / 1)

Superconductors are already part of everyday life in Essen
AmpaCity is able to transport the same amount of electricity as the previous high-voltage line that it replaces in the grid of the Ruhr metropolis, with the advantage that the current now flows at a medium-voltage level within the superconductor. This renders the huge transformer superfluous, which served to reduce the current from 110 kilovolts (kV) to 10 kV. The end terminal blocks of the superconductors and the other components of the system that carry the current to the customers are considerably smaller.
The ceramics used in the AmpaCity cables `already' unfold their superconductivity at 70 degrees Kelvin, i.e. -200 degrees Celsius. In order to reach this temperature, the cables are sheathed in an insulating sleeve that carries liquid nitrogen.

'Sapere aude'

by Oui (Oui) on Fri Jan 21st, 2022 at 11:25:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (none / 0)

But how feasible is this for thousands of miles of undersea cables?

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by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Jan 21st, 2022 at 11:40:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (4.00 / 2)

Answer: not very. HTS are still expensive and do not scale that well beyond a single one kilometer line - yes, that's all there is - within a bigger and complex power distribution system in a dense metropolitan area in North Rhine-Westphalia. Else, supra-conductors would be all over the place by now. They are still a long shot, along with nuclear fusion.

Meanwhile, Ohm's law, or rather Joule's law still applies and high voltage transport lines (mostly DC on long distances) are still limited to, maybe 1000 or 1500 km. In the future, electrical energy might be transported across tens of thousand rather than thousands of kilometers, but not anytime soon.

by Bernard (bernard) on Mon Jan 24th, 2022 at 08:53:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (4.00 / 5)

Plenty of analysis supports the idea of continent-wide macrogrids. Of course there are pros and cons and it is not so easy to come to a clear conclusion about the best way forward. Typical engineering problem!

An important factor is that the cheapest way to get additional energy today is on the demand management side. Most operations, including both households and commercial enterprises, have a lot of slack in their electrical demand, and the cost to the utility of offering them a payback for demand curtailment is less than the cost to the utility of generating more power.

Transmission lines are expensive, so to the extent that you can manage demand locally for a day or two when the weather is bad, it might be better to go that way than to try to pull power from a distant source. On the other hand, availability of energy from sunny places when your local skies are cloudy is a nice capability!

The IEEE Power and Energy Society is concerned, for example, about wildfires and how they disrupt extended grid configurations. One response to this is to increase the use of microgrids. Long-term shutdowns of the larger grid due to remote failures can be avoided if you generate your power locally. Another advantage of the distributed energy resource (DER) approach is that whatever interconnection grid you do end up with can be sized for less capacity, because it is only used for fill-in purposes.

Most of the IEEE PES published material is behind a firewall, but here's a recent article that discusses the pros and cons of macro vs. microgrids. A later article behind the firewall discusses the complications introduced by wildfires.

by asdf on Fri Jan 21st, 2022 at 03:40:51 PM EST

Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (none / 0)

I sent this story as a letter to the editor of all Irish newspapers, so it had to be kept short and simple. Clearly making individual building and areas as self sufficient as possible has to be a core objective. All new buildings should be close to energy neutral.

There is a growing demand that Ireland should go nuclear, and I am trying to head that off by demonstrating it is possible to manage intermittency - their main argument against wind/solar.

The point of the supergrid is not to replace local generation, but to deal with imbalances in unavoidable supply and demand constraints and avoid the need to build excess spare capacity for peak load/low wind or solar in every area.

One of the disincentives, at the moment is that electricity suppliers do not credit you with any power you feed back into the grid from your solar panels. So we tend to do our laundry in daytime now rather than on night rate as in times past.

Wildfires are not an issue in wet cool climates like Ireland and with undersea cables! The development of smart home technology should assist with demand management.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Jan 21st, 2022 at 08:27:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (4.00 / 2)

R Buckminster Fuller proposed a global electrical grid back in the 1930s

http://www.geni.org/globalenergy/issues/overview/grid.shtml

https://www.animatedsoftware.com/geni/rh2000ge.htm

A necessary corollary to such a global grid is islanding microgrids all over the place, areas or single buildings which have their own generating capacity that can link to the grid but detach from the grid when the grid is down.

PS: Texas in USAmerica has a grid which does not connect with the rest of the USAmerican grid expressly because they do not want to be under the rules of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. If they won't join the rest of USAmerica, think about how much less they'd join a global grid.

Solar IS Civil Defense

by gmoke on Fri Jan 21st, 2022 at 05:39:18 PM EST

Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (none / 0)

Just wait until Texas experiences electricity shortages. They will be happy enough to connect then.

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by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Jan 21st, 2022 at 11:01:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (none / 1)

This is a major issue that Beto O'Rourke is using against Gov. Abbot in his challenge to Abbot's reelection. This recent cold spell wasn't severe enough to trigger another such outage, but winter isn't over yet. Abbot is a creature of the Texas gas interests and, at best, can only appear to be trying to force the gas producers to winterize their pipelines and facilities.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Jan 22nd, 2022 at 05:21:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (4.00 / 2)

Storage is a major requirement. Lithium battery packs are the current choice for time shifting,(less than 24 hr) applications. Pumped hydro is a good solution for longer term storage, but is limited by geography. Flow batteries, which allow a liquid to be charged and then stored for significant time periods, several days, and then be discharged over an extended period when needed, are now commercially available. Their expected lifetimes match those of wind and solar generation systems.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Fri Jan 21st, 2022 at 06:09:42 PM EST

Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (none / 0)

Electric car batteries should be configured to act as household power back-up devices.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Jan 21st, 2022 at 08:34:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (4.00 / 2)

That's the "vehicle to house" (V2H) feature, part of the "vehicle to anything" (V2X) concept. It is included in some EVs in some markets. The limiting factor is that the charging connector signaling protocols need to support it.

Net metering, where the power company gives you credit for whatever you feed back into the grid, is pretty much a standard residential tariff in the US. Surprised you don't have it.

A related problem is that houses aren't generally wired to separate the essential circuits from the non-essential. If you're operating with a compromised supply, you might want to prioritize your refrigerator and the light and an outlet in your bedroom (so you can charge your phone), while allowing everything else to go dark.

by asdf on Fri Jan 21st, 2022 at 11:06:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (none / 0)

It's hard enough to get a competent electrician without expecting them to create two separate essential and non-essential circuits. To make this practicable you might want to develop some way of giving each device a sort of electrical IP address whereby you could (in software) designate some as essential and some as not - or else internet enable them all and switch them on off in software.

The same goes for home charging your car. If you have an essential journey first thing you may want to designate it as essential. If not, you could designate it non-essential and it could be charged whenever there is a surplus on the grid. Power companies would have to incentivise this by charging much less for non-essential electricity to be supplied as and when a surplus s available.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Jan 21st, 2022 at 11:36:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (4.00 / 3)

The American system of household wiring involves multiple small (usually 15 amp) circuits. Each one provides power for the outlets in one room, or in the kitchen power for each major appliance. A larger room might have two or three circuits. A standard 200 amp circuit breaker box has about 40 breakers and can thus support 40 separate circuits.

Some circuits require multiple breaker spaces in the panel. For example, a 220 volt 50 amp stove circuit uses two spaces, as does a dryer circuit or an A/C circuit. Many houses also have surge protectors that use up a couple of spaces. So you might typically have around two dozen or so actual circuits.

Using this system, there are a lot of wires coming in to the box. An advantage of this approach is that all you have to do to separate out the critical ones is to add a sub-panel and re-route the critical circuits to it. It is not technically all that difficult, but as you point out, finding a competent electrician that you can afford is a problem.

by asdf on Sat Jan 22nd, 2022 at 04:26:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"standard 200 amp" (4.00 / 2)

hmm, I thought, 200 amp HH supply isn't all that common in US, although utilities offer 120-240+ volt main service supply. (one bus) 60 and (2 bus) 120 amp breakers are most common in "average" sized single fam residence, ≤2,400 sf. There's more average (pre-war (WW1-II, Viet Nam, Gulf) existing SFR than large, new ≥2,400 sf construction. In any case, typical HH energy-efficient appliances aren't pushing capacity. Switch from oil or gas HVAC to whole-home electric will definitely trip service upgrade, tho'. In my experience trying to contract system upgrade, there's significant resistance to replacing gas.

It's frustrating.

by Cat on Sat Jan 22nd, 2022 at 05:25:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "standard 200 amp" (4.00 / 2)

Older houses built up to maybe 1960 usually have 220 volt, 60 amp service connections. Then for a couple of decades the standard size increased to 100 amps, and then to 200 amps. My utility allows a maximum of a 320 amp service before you need a special approval.

Many older buildings have had service upgrades, but obviously not all. At this point, for a detached house, I would think seriously about a 320 amp service. My 200 amp panel is completely full and it is only a small ranch house.

Another consideration is that older houses were typically wired with insufficient grounding, so you can get into complications on that score as well.

by asdf on Sat Jan 22nd, 2022 at 07:03:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "standard 200 amp" (none / 1)

An all electric home in most climates will require 200 Amp service to perform adequately. The problem is that diversity, the idea that not all circuits are in use at all times, fails. If your heat pump runs on 220 v. as does your clothes dryer and kitchen range and then you have a dishwasher that runs on 120 v., but draws 10 or more peak amps, a microwave that can draw 10 amps, and a toaster oven that can draw 12 amps you quickly fall into overload situations. Then if your grounding is iffy, an overload can turn into a fire, as a circuit breaker may not trip when it should. More likely is that one or more circuits blow while fixing supper.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Jan 23rd, 2022 at 06:42:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "standard 200 amp" (4.00 / 2)

You forgot the electric car drawing 40 amps at 220 volts.

by asdf on Sun Jan 23rd, 2022 at 11:49:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "standard 200 amp" (none / 1)

To clarify, a two phase 60 amp breaker box provides a total of 120 amps of service.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Jan 24th, 2022 at 07:23:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (none / 1)

When we had an extended outage due to an ice storm back in '09 I bought a 6.5 KVA gasoline generator, drilled a 1.5" hole in the wall between the garage and the laundry and ran a 14 gague male to male cable between the generator, in front of the house, and a plug in the laundry. It was a bit of a Kludge, but by only using essential devices, I could run the generator for ~ four hours per gas tank, which enabled us to run the gas furnace which kept the pipes under the house from freezing and the refrigerators from defrosting. If the generator was running we could use the microwave, etc. It would have been vastly better to have even a couple of 12v DC, 100 Amp-hr batteries and an inverter, but - alas...

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Jan 22nd, 2022 at 05:38:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (4.00 / 3)

The timing of electric car charging is controlled by clocks in the car or in the charger (EVSE) or in the app software. A routine method is to charge at night, timed so that the battery is to the desired state of charge (often 80%) and the cabin and battery warmed up at the time you plan to leave.

The software calculates the required start time for the charging process based on the various specified parameters, combined with the available charging current, the charging profile required by the battery, the state of charge of the battery, the ambient temperature, and whether there is a tariff consideration.

by asdf on Sat Jan 22nd, 2022 at 04:32:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"a competent electrician" (none / 0)

< wipes tears >

by Cat on Sat Jan 22nd, 2022 at 04:43:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (4.00 / 3)

Fascinating stuff... I'll have a go at the ethical and geopolitical considerations of the World Wide Grid.

Installing solar farms in the Sahara and sending the electricity to Europe ... because that's where the money is... sounds like an efficient market solution.

But I would expect Saudi Arabia to get their giga-scale solar off the ground long before the countries of the Mahgreb do, because they like being an essential energy supplier, and have the capital.

So, new electricity superpowers will emerge. That's fine : we've never had any problems with outsourcing our energy needs before [insert emoticon of choice]

Also, occasional intermittence or load-shedding on an otherwise capable distribution grid is a rich market's problem. The absence of a national grid, let alone a reliable one, is the norm in sub-Saharan Africa in particular. Progress there concerns local autonomous grids, and is absolutely vital in making progress towards ecological sustainability for local populations.

Any major renewable generating capacity linked to a supergrid should respond to ethical norms about benefits going in priority to local populations and ecosystems. To state the obvious.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Mon Jan 24th, 2022 at 04:00:32 PM EST

Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (none / 1)

Obviously anyone installing solar farms would have to pay some sort of capital or rental cost for the use of the land there to the relevant government/landowner. Part of the price might be to develop and supply local grids thereby increasing their reliability and sustainability.

It would also make sense to manufacture solar panels locally (to avoid huge transportation costs) and that and their local transportation and installation would generate local employment. So it could be a win win all around.

Over time I would envisage solar farms to spread right across Saharan Africa to maximise generation for a longer period of the day. Depending on transmission costs it would also make sense to complement Saharan solar farms with Namibian ones, which would have their max output in the southern hemisphere summer at a time of max northern winter demand (and vice versa).

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Jan 24th, 2022 at 04:37:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (4.00 / 2)

I would be surprised if solar panels in Africa are used to supply electricity to Europe. Just put them on rooftops all over, in solar panel farms, and in Spain if you get desperate. There are various calculations of how much land it would take, but it doesn't work out to be worth moving it across the Mediterranean.

by asdf on Mon Jan 24th, 2022 at 07:11:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (none / 0)

For all new build certainly. Without the grant there would have been a very long payback period on ours, and then only if paying a low rate of interest. It also doesn't resolve the periodicity and variability of solar output.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Jan 24th, 2022 at 08:14:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (4.00 / 2)

I don't think solar panels in Sahara does much to solve the load balancing problem. To do that you need to store energy, or transport it from where there is a temporary surplus to where there is a temporary need.

You can use fuels that can burn (which are stored energy), or over build and waste (spilling) that which you don't need, or store energy. Hydro power with dams has the storage built in, but there is also rotating mass, batteries, and pumped storage (can be used with hydro).

Super grids has a place in improving connections on the continent to decrease the need for storage (when it blows to much in Spain and to little in Ireland or vice versa), to use existing storage better and to make it easier to construct more storage.

I think the European mountain ranges are really more important here then the African desert.

by fjallstrom on Tue Jan 25th, 2022 at 12:00:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (4.00 / 2)

There is a pumped storage station just down the road from me which has been operational since 1973. It has an efficiency of c. 75%. More are planned, but have been slow to get off the ground...

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Jan 25th, 2022 at 12:26:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (4.00 / 3)

A pumped storage installation is under consideration in Colorado. The cost estimate is interesting:

Pumped-storage hydro projects cost about $2,000 per kilowatt to build, according to the National Hydropower Association. (That compares to about $1,800 per kilowatt for utility-scale solar and $1,400 per kilowatt for onshore wind turbines.)

Of course it is difficult to make a direct comparison between a source like wind or solar and a storage system, but the need for storage is also pretty clear.

by asdf on Tue Jan 25th, 2022 at 04:05:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (none / 1)

But the pumped hydro should work for a century instead of 30 years.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jan 27th, 2022 at 09:35:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (4.00 / 3)

Efficient production of hydrogen, whether from electrolysis or directly photocatalytic, are an essential part of the mix. Either for storage/peak production (if the efficiency is high enough) or for transport fuel (need to replace all that petroleum real soon), it will quickly dominate road transport once the price is right.

I hadn't looked at the state of the research recently, but there is a lot of it, with lots of very promising pathways. I hope it can scale up quickly.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Wed Jan 26th, 2022 at 01:24:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

New year, same Desertec solution (none / 0)

archived best idea since jesus on a stick with wheels

by Cat on Tue Jan 25th, 2022 at 08:48:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: New year, same Desertec solution (none / 1)

I was waiting for that!

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jan 27th, 2022 at 09:39:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (none / 1)

I too, was considering a comment about resources extraction of a new kind and the potential for North African and Sahel villagers to watch the electrons freely flow up North, where they (the villagers, not the electrons) are certainly not allowed to, even at the risk of their lives. Not as bad as the inhabitants of the Niger delta region, who have to live with the pollution from oil extracted there for Europe's benefit. Not to mention that the Sahara region is plagued by all kinds of civil wars, big and small.

Well, you've beaten me to the punch 😀

Solar panels are of course developing on the African continent: essentially to benefit the Africans themselves, unsurprisingly. And, as I wrote below, long distance transport, beyond a thousand kilometer or so, doesn't scale well.

by Bernard (bernard) on Mon Jan 24th, 2022 at 09:15:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (none / 1)

In any case what is interesting is that nobody, and in particular no politicians, are paying any attention to the IPCC reports. Here's a fund tidbit from the Summary for Policymakers that was released last summer:

The Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation is very likely to weaken over the 21st century for all emissions scenarios. While there is high confidence in the 21st century decline, there is only low confidence in the magnitude of the trend. There is medium confidence that there will not be an abrupt collapse before 2100. If such a collapse were to occur, it would very likely cause abrupt shifts in regional weather patterns and water cycle, such as a southward shift in the tropical rain belt, weakening of the African and Asian monsoons and strengthening of Southern Hemisphere monsoons, and drying in Europe.

That's good news, right? There is "medium confidence" that the Gulf Stream will not collapse within the lifetimes of our kids. People in the UK should be worrying about that instead of fighting about Ireland and Brexit and Ukraine. It's gonna be cold in London.

by asdf on Fri Jan 28th, 2022 at 12:59:43 AM EST

Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (none / 0)

fun tidbit

by asdf on Fri Jan 28th, 2022 at 01:00:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (none / 0)

Another nail in the EU coffin
https:/theshiftproject.org/article/ptef-livre-et-site-web
Jancovici promoting more farming jobs, more trains, helping people return from their rural exodus...

by Tom2 on Sat Jan 29th, 2022 at 02:29:01 PM EST

Re: World Wide Electricity Super-grid (none / 1)

Just curious... why do you consider this a nail in the EU coffin? It seems to tick the right boxes... or do you consider that a sustainable economic model will fracture the EU?

(Hint : you may need to lay out some elements of your world view. I don't know who I'm talking to.)

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Tue Feb 22nd, 2022 at 09:58:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Most Interesting Nuclear Fusion Step (none / 1)

Nuclear fusion heat record a 'huge step' in quest for new energy source [_link]
— The Guardian (@guardian) February 9, 2022

Tokamak Energy developing cutting-edge technology

'Sapere aude'

by Oui (Oui) on Wed Feb 9th, 2022 at 06:34:59 PM EST

Re: Most Interesting Nuclear Fusion Step (none / 1)

Yep, been keeping an eye on fusion technology as a possible long term solution. Obviously safety issues are paramount and would need to be addressed first, but the idea of almost unlimited electricity with few if any emissions is hugely attractive, and probably worth the wait as next gen small modular fission reactors seem to be some years off in any case.

Could be another 50 years before this technology is proven, safe, scaleable, and affordable though...

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Wed Feb 9th, 2022 at 08:22:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Most Interesting Nuclear Fusion Step (4.00 / 3)

Fusion power has been decades in the future for decades. Even if a reactor is ever built that can provide a net energy output, and be commercialized, and last for a couple of decades, and be combined with a waste management system, it will still be way too expensive.

Solar panels are an existing technology that works, is relatively cheap--and continuously declining in price, and that has no limit to generation, etc. Money spent on researching miraculous solutions to a problem that is already solved seems like potential waste.

Big advantage of fusion is it involves big centralized power stations that are right up the comfortable alley of the existing electricity companies. Distributed supplies are a pain for them to deal with, and also harder to make a profit from.

by asdf on Mon Feb 14th, 2022 at 12:10:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Most Interesting Nuclear Fusion Step (none / 0)

Solar panels are THE solution in my view, but the sun doesn't shine at night, and the wind doesn't always blow in one location, hence the logic of my World Wide Electricity super-grid...

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Feb 14th, 2022 at 09:42:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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